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Stories and Edges: Olympics-Inspired Thoughts on the Blazers

I'm not sure what you're doing during this mini-break in the Blazers schedule, but I am taking the opportunity to catch up on some belated Winter Olympics viewing.  (Note:  This is NOT an Olympics thread.  I still have multiple hours of coverage left to watch.  Please don't sidetrack into a general discussion of results from the Vancouver games and thus spoil it for me!!!)  A couple of the things I've watched in the last 24 hours made me reflect on the nature of sports as a whole and thus had bearing on our Blazer discussion.  I thought I'd share...

First, the coverage of Lindsey Vonn during the games reminded me how annoying American sports media can be sometimes.  It's not about the sport, it's about the story.  I understand that Vonn was an American darling, raced in all the events, had a chance to be the Winter Olympics version of Michael Phelps.  I also understand that she's charismatic and that when she races she either medals or crashes.  Those are compelling factors which merit coverage.  But I just got done watching the final event in which she was entered, the slalom.  It was not her strong suit going in.  She ended up bailing out of a turn in her first run, splitting a gate, not even making it halfway down.  That was it.  She didn't crash.  She didn't do well.  Basically she just stopped.  End of story.

Well, end of story except NBC thought it was more important to show her post-run interview on its tape-delayed coverage than, say, actual racing.  They did show one other American skier but other Americans competed and we didn't get to see their runs.  Granted they didn't place high in that first run but how would you like to be their parents or classmates or from their state and you didn't get to see their moment in the Olympics because Lindsey Vonn...well...just existed?  (Again...didn't crash, didn't run well, just half-recovered from a turn and bailed out.)    For that matter, wouldn't it have been truer to the event to show the runs of some of the better slalom skiers instead of sticking a microphone in Lindsey's face for the 8000th time in a fortnight?  But, you see, Lindsey's a story and the story is what sells, not the sport or even the rah-rah patriotism (or in Portland's case, regionalism) no matter how much they try to convince you that's what you're viewing and reading about.

This reminded me greatly of the bad old days when I was living well outside the Portland area and the only national sports coverage was ESPN on the tube and a few national sports networks on the radio.  90% of NBA discussion centered around the L*kers no matter how good or bad the team was.  If L.A. won it was how dominant they were and how they were going to be a dynasty.  The line was "We talk about winners here!  When your team wins we'll give them coverage."  But somehow when the L*kers got booted from the playoffs the discussion wasn't about their opponent, rather "What does L.A. need to do in order to get back to the championship?"  The basketball you saw, heard about, and learned about was exactly as good or bad as L.A. provided.  They were the story and the sport could go hang.

This was a bit before the internet became so accessible and long before sports coverage became both specialized and egalitarian through sites and networks such as this one.  As I saw Lindsey Vonn get the L*kers treatment from NBC I thought that if communities like this have even a little part in holding up the sport as much as the story, or even breaking the monopolistic hold professional media types once had on defining the story and its terms, then we've helped the world a little.  I also couldn't help but think that maybe there's a skiing site (and sites for the rest of these sports) out there fighting the same battle, not just for recognition but for definition.  If so, more power to them.  I hope they get enough attention to help shape the terms of our coverage someday.

The second event that struck me was the gold medal women's curling match between Sweden and Canada.  Yeah...I watch women's curling in the Olympics.  I'm a sicko.  But curling is fascinating.  It's also a sport where gender doesn't matter much in the pace or enjoyment of the game.  (But I haven't seen the men's results yet, so again...please don't spoil!)  In any case, the women's gold medal game was one for the ages.  Sweden had everything going their way in the first half but then Canada make a striking comeback in front of the home crowd.  The momentum shift was tangible.  But somewhere in the middle of their run one of the commentators remarked that this particular Canadian squad had always been known as second-place finishers.  Winning Canada's national qualifying event was something of a surprise and had started to change that perception.  Winning the gold medal, as it then appeared they were going to do, would turn it around completely.

The game came down to the final end with Canada having the last rock to throw.  Sweden did their best but they had left the Canadian skip with what looked like a straightforward throw, certainly easier than many that had been made in this game.  One average, normal throw and the gold medal would belong to Canada.  The skip lined up, slid, released, and...just missed it.  Sweden ended up scoring instead of Canada, tying the game to force an extra end.  As the overtime session progressed Sweden kept twisting the Canadians harder and harder until again Canada was left with the last shot.  This time it was far trickier as Canada's skip had to knock two Swedish stones out of the way with that final rock, leaving her rock victorious.  The skip made a far better throw than she had at the end of regulation.  The rock slid, curled, and...missed by about an inch.  One of Sweden's rocks was bumped out but the other only got ticked.  Somehow Sweden won.

As I watched the Swedish women jump for joy I couldn't help but recall that "second place" comment that had been made when Canada was on the upswing.  After all was said and done they had found a way to place second again.  This got me thinking about one of the basic lessons of sports:  Losing has far more gravity than winning does.  In fact winning might be described as having no gravity of its own, rather it's what happens when you escape losing's gravity.  If you leave things as they are, if you aren't consciously and actively fighting against losing, it's going to suck you in.  It'll get you on that last throw, that last inch.  It'll snatch the trophy out of your hands and stick a "what could have been" pacifier in your mouth instead.  Let that happen to you even once--or worse, become accustomed to sucking that binky for comfort--and you're going to have a hard time putting things right again.

A large part of the velocity to escape the gravity of losing comes from factors we're all familiar with.  You need talent, obviously.  Preparation is key...good coaching, smarts, focus, and all of that.  Without those things you're going nowhere.  In the NBA regular season and early rounds of the playoffs teams win multiple games from those factors alone.  But if you want to talk about winning the Big One you have to differentiate yourself even more.  As the playoffs progress teams become more equally matched in all of these areas.  It's rare to see a team out-talent or out-prepare their opponent, especially in the Finals.  The margins are too thin, much like the world's 20 best bobsledders all coming down an enormously long track within a couple tenths of a second of each other.

I would argue that the balance is tipped by your outlook as much as anything when it comes to those razor-thin matchups.  When the difference between victory and defeat is an inch and that inch comes in a shot you've thrown successfully hundreds of times before we're not talking talent or physical prowess anymore.  We're talking about some people stepping up to that line already knowing the shot is made while other people step up nervously hoping that they can pull this off.   We're talking about an attitude...a refusal to lose to anyone or anything for any reason.  Some teams have that.  Others are good with second.

I'm not trying to disparage the Canadian women's curling team here.  In fact I was heartened by their show of sportsmanship after the contest and the fact that they could still smile.  They played one heck of a game and deserved a standing ovation.  But to my view there was just something different in the eyes of the Swedish skip when she took hold of those last, critical rocks than there was in the eyes of the Canadian.  They were both excellent, technically and otherwise.  I believe their eyes illuminated the difference between gold and silver amidst that excellence.

This is one of the big questions I have about the Blazers in the coming years.  Portland will be talented.  I believe Portland will find excellence.  Somewhere along the line the Blazers are going to compete for the highest rewards their sport has to offer.  But the talent and excellence only get them to the door right alongside three or four other teams, all trying to be the first through that door in order to slam it on the others.  Will the Blazers have the will, attitude, fire, and refusal to succumb to gravity that's necessary to really be in that first position or will they watch the door get slammed in their faces?

In some ways the early signs we've seen from this team have been encouraging.  People have made much of their talent.  I think they might have been overestimated a tad in that department.  Much of that assessment was based off of their depth.  We're seeing on a night-to-night basis that not everyone on a deep roster can perform to full capacity, inhibiting expression of said talent.  Plus Portland's talent has been incredibly young and inexperienced prior to this season.  And now, in the season where they were finally supposed to grow together and start playing like veterans, they can't keep a team healthy and on the floor.  Despite all of this, from the very start of the Brandon Roy era, the Blazers have won more than projected...this season perhaps more than can be believed.  They have lost but they've never lost for long.  They haven't let losing get to them.  Instead they've kicked it out like a lingering in-law no matter who they had to beat to accomplish the eviction.  That's a great sign.

On the other hand the team as a whole still approaches the game carrying briefcases instead of playing like hard-cases.  We see smooth excellence, flashes of brilliance, even sustained runs of excitement.  But you can still see the difference between Portland and clubs like Houston last year or Denver this year.  Those teams are good.  Those teams are accomplished.  Those teams are also going to rip the win away from you in ways the Blazers haven't dreamed of yet.  If excellence, brilliance, and excitement can win a game then the Blazers are going to win it.  But what about those games that take more?  I don't see Portland there yet.

What's more, as I scan the roster I'm not sure how many of our players will be able to give you that "refuse to lose no matter what the cost" attitude.  I can name two and a half right now.  Even though Brandon Roy's demeanor is calm and he tends to lay in the weeds many nights he's shown through his fourth-quarter heroics that he can lift the team above its theoretical ceiling.  Andre Miller also appears to have that winning chip on his shoulders, at least in his approach and physicality.  (Note that he's a short-timer though.)  The other guy I'm looking at is Dante Cunningham.  He has a fierceness that transcends his statistical production.  I could see him becoming one of those critical-moment-dominating players even if he's never a star in the traditional sense, or even a starter for that matter.

On the other end of the spectrum I don't see LaMarcus Aldridge giving you that lift.  He's going to put up nice numbers and be a wonderful player.  You don't get to the door without him or someone of his talent-level.  But he doesn't have that "do anything to win" persona.  I also don't see that from Greg Oden.  Oden is a physical specimen.  He'll intimidate with his size and presence alone.  But Greg also lets the game come to him instead of reaching out and ripping it off the hinges.  I don't think Martell Webster is a strong candidate either.

Of the great young hopes I think Rudy Fernandez might be the most promising in this regard.  He's not as intense as Jerryd Bayless nor as well-rounded and athletic as Nicolas Batum but he's able to throw caution to the wind more than either.  When he's at his best it's like he doesn't care, he's just going to attack.  You might see anything in his eyes in those moments but fear or doubt won't be on the list.  Bayless also has an attacking mentality and he's a strong candidate but he seems too intense sometimes and the intensity is focused inward (or at least on his own game) which isn't precisely the same as dominating the other team with it.  Batum is going to be a better NBA player than either of the other two but his game is surgical and contained, which is also not quite the style we're talking about.

It's an open question how many loss-refusing, gravity-escaping, door-slamming players a team needs in order to be successful.  In some cases probably just one will do.  But somehow that attitude has to rub off on, and lift, the entire team in those critical situations.  I'm also not sure whether you're born with the instinct to hate losing or whether you learn it as your game develops.  I tend to think it's binary, either on or off.  I know it's not something you can coach a guy to do or explain to him.  If he does learn it he has to adopt the resolve himself (or at least have it pounded into him by his opponent).  If it can be learned I think it's harder to do so in the NBA where there are so many rewards even if you lose.

Again, we're talking about high-level stuff here...the finishing touches on a talented, focused, practiced team that provides that extra .01% edge that differentiates gold and silver.  Portland doesn't have to worry about that edge soon.  Someday, when facing the LeBron Jameses (or, if you prefer, Kevin Durants) of the world it's going to be important.  Right now finishing second in the Conference Finals, let alone the NBA Finals, would be a cause for riotous celebration.  That won't always be the case.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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I agree

I feel like if there’s any player besides Roy who can deliver the win in the pressuriest of situations, its Rudy. Pressure steals, rebounds, passes, whatever. He has balls of steel in my estimation. For this reason he should remain a Blazer even though he plays the same position as Roy.

by goblazer1 on Mar 16, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I don’t see Rudy ever having the control or consistency of Nic Batum. I don’t think he re-signs with Portland after his contract is up.

Is Martell done here? He gets no mention, barely gets minutes, but I really don’t think he’s near his ceiling after making some pretty good strides this year. I’m guessing Rudy goes, Martell, because of his contract, stays and contributes more in coming years.

I agree with you about LaMarcus. Just doesn’t have the fire, the confidence, the drive to get inside and battle like Roy or Miller (for example). We see some very quick flashes of it, and I like his game, think he’ll improve, but he’ll never really get after it.

I think Greg does have it. He’s got the edge. He just can’t stay healthy, and it breaks my heart well beyond my love for the game or this team. Just ain’t fair. If he can stay healthy, he’s going to show that he can take it to the next level, Roy’s level, and he’ll dominate any center in the league on a given night. Sure hope we get to see it.

by travis13 on Mar 16, 2010 1:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Agree with your assessment of Greg.

This is a guy who has done nothing except work his butt off to get into shape and contribute (well, except for some modeling on the side ;)

But he cares about contributing and winning and certainly has the raw talent.

Something that I just love every time I think about it — how he didn’t move out of the way but just brushed off Lebron. I don’t think anybody else would have the cajunas to do that.

#52

by CatMan2 on Mar 16, 2010 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dante is the "story" I'm watching this season.

and I’m glad that Dave is finally on the Dante Cunningham bandwagon.

I feel the Inferno’s energy, drive, and constant motor are absolutely special. Just watch that guy through a defensive possession—your eyes have a hard time keeping up with him!

And the fact that he already has a bankable offensive skill (the face-up 15 footer) that is absolutely money, and that his teammates trust him—I don’t see any reason why he couldn’t be a 6th man or starter in the NBA for years to come.

" It was as if the Suns hatched a fiendish plot to ruin John Wayne's movie career by casting him as a cowboy." - Dave 2/10/2010

by jamon51 on Mar 16, 2010 1:06 AM PDT reply actions  

Dante

I like Dante’s game, a ton.

But, there are things he needs to work on. I think he’ll improve in these areas over time. He needs to be better at putting the ball on the floor. Needs to work on getting his own shot. Needs to be able to finish on the move in the lane, and needs to be able to pass out of that situation. He’s probably got to extend his range and knock down threes at around 30%, at least.

That is, these areas need to improve for him to be a 6th man or starter. His athletic ability will make him a contributer and a good pro because he won’t need sets run for him and he can be a dominant defender with more experience. But his offensive game needs a lot of work yet. That’s not criticism. He’s young.

by travis13 on Mar 16, 2010 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wish there were more minutes for Dante

I feel like he’s going to be so good. I guess we’ll just have to wait for Marty to leave the team to open up more minutes for Dante.

by goblazer1 on Mar 16, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I want to see a lot of Dante before I overestimate him

on offense, I want to see him put the ball on the floor. And he really should develop the ability to shoot the 3. It’s a little that he never made a college-distance 3 while at Villanova. Even Hansborough hit some of those, or Carlos Boozer.

on defense, he really kind of light to be a 4 vs Millsap or Varejao or L. Odom, or Boozer. Yet I would hate to see him add weight and lose quickness. I’m not sure. But we’ve seen him overpowered in the post.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hm this playing without fear or doubt seems very Nietzschesque as far as "Will to Dominate"

It is easy to see this attitude in Kobe, Dwight and LeBron as they all have that tough winning mentality that they wear on their sleeve. Roy is perhaps more of a cold passion, the type a poker player might have.

I disagree with you about Batum as I don’t see fear or doubt when he steps onto the court, though he also doesn’t just throw caution to the winds. None-the-less he is still a VERY impassioned player (not many will charge downcourt to try and swat a fast break point) and one who does not shy from the spotlight nor the pressure.

Oden has made some monstrous plays and I don’t think you can discount his passion or his ability to grab the game when needed to. If he wants it the game is his to grab and if/when he gets comfortable out there we will see if he wants it or not.

Cunningham is a wonderful role player, and perhaps our future “6th man” so I hope he keeps developing his energy. If he had a comfortable 3 point shot….

That said we do have a team full of “nice” guys, or at least in terms of public perception, in that they are not viewed in the almost “bad boy” way Kobe or D.Howard are.

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 16, 2010 1:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Agree about Nic

Look in his eyes, he is the Swedish skip

It’s getting to the point where, when Batum is open for a 3, you can see the fans the background rising to their feet with their arms extended when he releases the shot, because we’re more surprised when he misses than when it goes in

In playoff series to come, #88 will take slide the rock and knock the other guy’s rocks out of the wya and stop his on the bullseye (or “whatever” they call it in curling) His facial expression will never change. It will be like “of course, that’s what I expected to happen”

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought Batum

showed this in his comment about Hedo T. lighting him up the first time they met, and how he then wanted to defend him in international play this past summer. I think Roy, Cunningham and Batum, and possibly Fernandez have “it” when it comes to will to win.

And I agree with Dave that at least to me, LMA and Oden just don;t appear to have it. Oden MAY grow into it….but who knows.

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Mar 16, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Batum has a killer instinct. Very very competitive. Batum studies tapes, memorizes opposing teams' players moves..He knew the exact pattern of steps Dirk takes..He throws his hand up with the number

“2” when he dunked on Pau Gasol the second time. He is very surgical/calculating but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the will to win no matter what. He calmly hits threes in the 4th quarter. He is clutch.
Rudy is also. He has experience playing for championships.
And Roy. Also Miller. Oden is very competitive. I think that is enough for any one team.
I think Miller, and Camby and Juwann will all make a big difference in the rest of this season. They have already and will continute to bring the veteran leadership that is needed on this team. With them on board I do not see a repeat of the first game of last year’s playoff game!
I don’t know Dante’s play well enough to say and LA is incredibly talented and will be fine with the others taking the reins.

by Natsthecat on Mar 16, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

it’s easy to see this in Dwight?

#52

by Cablinasian on Mar 16, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't count out Camby.

From what I see this dude wants to win. He ‘s had a lotta hustle and intensity and when he dives to the floor for a ball he usually ends up controlling it. I hope he’ll be able to turn it up a notch still for the playoffs.

By the way, the best ever at turning it up for the playoffs is Jerome Kersey. Maybe that is what Dave sees in Dante, i dunno.

The current Blazers are only half tested in the playoffs. It will be very interesting to see what happens, considering the line up we have and the one we thought we had.

by andru on Mar 16, 2010 1:29 AM PDT reply actions  

Batum

Been thinking about Nic since I read this earlier, and it’s safe to say that he’s got a killer instinct. He loves going after guys. He wanted one on Bosh last night, and he goes after Gasol every chance he gets, even holding up 2 fingers on the L*kers third biggest crybaby. Wants to shut down Hedo for lighting him up as a rookie, and Nic won’t forget it. Loves swatting shots, hustles constantly, and he’ll always be a more consistent player than Rudy. He’s just a bit quieter about his play than Rudy. And who isn’t? I love some of Rudy’s threes, but he’s absent way too often.

by travis13 on Mar 16, 2010 2:06 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree with this

Wasn’t It was just the other night when he had 3 fantastic plays to win a game (or at least seal it)?

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I had the same thoughts about Batum...

I think he is similar to Roy, a cold blooded killer. Probably even less passionate than Roy since Roy is to be the vocal leader on and off the court. Batum’s got a little chip on the shoulder based on his comments regarding Hedo, his 2-fingers on Gasol, and some other comments he’s made in his brief career.

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nic's comments about Hedo

after Turk burned him for 35 in their first encounter, Batum wanted to personally guard Hedo and shut him down

that is the heart of a champion

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Amen

It’s those who always get back up after being knocked down so they can go find whoever knocked them down and punch out their teeth

figuratively speaking…

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 16, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is related to what I posted in another thread but that's exactly what I meant LMA in a prev thread. He don't wanna punch nobody. He'd just smile and brush it off.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Mar 16, 2010 12:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

He also went after Lamar Odem a few times too

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I speak, of course, of
  • The record number of gold medals won by the Byzantine Empire
  • The disappointing showing by the Austria-Hungary ice fishers
  • The routinely boring perfection of the U.S.S.R.’s seal-clubbing team

#52

by CatMan2 on Mar 16, 2010 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Batum is an assasin

He does appear to love to dominate and his talent will allow him to do just that. Surgical perhaps but that scalpel is going for the heart. At least that is my own projection of Nic :)

As noted above his throw downs on Bosh and Pau appear to be more than the desire to score or look good doing it. I am interested to see how many others here see this as well.

"Their length," he said. "Aldridge is a tough matchup for us. Roy's a very talented ball player, an All-Star player. Miller is just an incredibly savvy point guard with what he's able to do out there on the floor. You throw in their shooters who have size and are able to see over things. They understand where they are as a ball club." - Kurt Rambis

by lee3022 on Mar 16, 2010 2:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Sure.

Not everybody is demonstrative, or in the same way. Doesn’t mean they aren’t serious or aren’t going to bring it when it’s on.

Batum’s got a quiet intensity. You can look at certain players and see that they rise to the occasion of a big game. Rudy’s done that in international ball, and so has Nic.

Also, what about Joel? I sure hope he returns as a Blazer and can play at the level he did. Granted, he’s not a superstar, but he’s a guy who works hard to make sure the team doesn’t lose.

And Steve Blake is a scrappy little point guard who … oh, never mind.

#52

by CatMan2 on Mar 16, 2010 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

great point about Przy

folks are starting to talk about Joel in the past tense

if you’re quick to write him off, then you don’t know Przy

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm mixed on whether I want Joel to come back.

Ideally, I’d like to see Oden, Pryz, LMA, and Camby manning the front line, but I’m not sure there’s enough playing time for all of them if healthy. That IS a big IF though! But I think to get Camby to resign, they are going to have to pretty much commit enough pt to keep him happy. And I really can’t blame him. Joel seems the odd man out here.

by goobie1 on Mar 16, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but with insurance he might not be prohibitively expensive to keep around

And on the small chance (LOL) that Oden gets hurt again you are going to be so happy to have Camby/Pryz at that 5 spot.

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 16, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Camby will get PLENTY of playing time. Count on it. That's if he stays. Hope so!

Hope Joel is able to play again but this seems pretty unlikely. He might want to stay out of the NBA alltogether and continue to be able to walk/run as a civilian. Initial injury was pretty severe…2nd..same area..well I suppose one never knows.

by Natsthecat on Mar 16, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure there’s enough playing time for all of them if healthy

This is only going to be a problem once Joel returns, which for all we know may be 9-11 months from now. My ideal scenario is that Przy will return next spring just as the team needs an extra big body for their finals run. It would be like getting a “free” FA at the exact time when he’ll be needed the most!

If there’s a silver lining re: Joel’s re-injury, it appears certain that he won’t be ready for training camp, and this should make it “easier” to sell Camby on a role where he can back up both Greg/LMA and get as many minutes at the 4-5 as he can handle

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nic and BRoy are cool killers

They’re not demonstrative or flashy; they just take the opponent out. It seems to be a question of temperament and lots of NBA greats fit that description: Duncan in today’s game, Lenny Wilkins in years past, many others. Guys like Garnett who roar and strut are easy to spot, but I really like watching players who very quietly just go about the business of winning.

BTW, I do not include LaMarcus in this group, at least not yet. He is at present the proverbial “nice” player: very skilled, talented and hard-working, but not someone who can or will take over a game,

by dmacb on Mar 16, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Demonstrative

I agree with what you are saying, but I don’t think there is anything on the court more demonstrative than a chase down block that Nic is perfecting, other than an in your face dunk. Shows desire.

"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks

by DucRider on Mar 16, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jerry West

was the same way

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you hit the nail on the head with what it wrong with sports in America.

Or at least my pet peeves with it. :p The first is about story. Story is the whole reason I watch sports. I do like the human side of it, and think it does add a lot while you’re watching, but too often our sports broadcasts focus too heavily on this side, and forget the story which unfolds during the game itself. To take the olympics as example again, I didn’t really care who was curling out there, the game itself was fascinating on its own. First it was, “How does this work?” Then “why did they do that?” Turns out that it’s a whole lot more strategic than ice darts. And that was far more fascinating to me than any human interest story. Because each game was a battle of intelligence and precision.

And that’s why it irritates me to hear people call Nate McMillan stupid. Basketball is not as precise. Strategy is based a lot more on risk/reward ratios. And McMillan takes the low risk/low reward approach. Turnovers are wasted possessions. Want to go inside more? Turnover rate goes up. Want to run more? Turnover rate goes up. 5 extra turnovers over 100 possessions essentially drops 44% shooting to 39% shooting. Not exactly, but there’s not even a shot on a turnover, much less a good one. It’s not a fun strategy for some, but it is effective. Because with an injured team, the strategy has them only three losses behind last year at this time. There’s a reason he’s getting so much play nationally as a Coach of the Year candidate.

This dovetails nice;y into your second point. The more you win, the less fun it is in America. How many times has winning been a relief instead of an accomplishment? How much has Boston’s fall been covered in comparison to Atlanta’s rise? I think the Lakers’ three game losing streak got more coverage than Oklahoma City’s amazing year? For the top teams, a championship is expected, and anything less is failure. This is what makes the Olympics better. A silver medal. A bronze medal. You still accomplish something for coming in second. But we still have to make a story out of Canada for not winning rather than Sweden winning. I want our Blazers to win. But I don’t look forward to when getting to the conference finals is a relief instead of a joy.

Wearing the black band for Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, Fred Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye, Luke Schenscher, Shavlik Randolph, James Jones, Josh McRoberts, Steven Hill, Jarron Collins, Michael Ruffin, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Sacrificed to the unmerciful god of progress.

Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by T Darkstar on Mar 16, 2010 4:13 AM PDT reply actions  

the Olympic TV coverage is targeted at the female audience

let’s get up close and personal. Fluff pieces instead of competition. FWIW, I just let the winter Olympics slide by unwatched this time around. My wife, however, tuned in

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly. "Up Close & Personal" began with ABC Sports and specifically targeted the female audience

And it’s worked.

Even in boxing, we had to endure Oscar Delahoya never showing up without a story about his mom, Boom Boom Mancini “Win a Championship for My Dad!” (I wonder if he killed that Korean boxer out of sentiment for his old man?)

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not just sports.

It drives me crazy that if we get more than 2 inches of snow, we have to sit thru a 12 hr news special about the great storm. I can look out the window & see it’s snowing a 10 minute wheather report will do.

Batumshakalaka!

by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 16, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can look out the window & see it’s snowing a 10 minute wheather report will do

Not if you’re asleep. There’s nothing like a “silent” overnight snowfall to mess up your morning, if you wake up on schedule for your regular commute

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

If that's the case.

The 12 hr. news special is just what you need.

Batumshakalaka!

by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 16, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Greg had it, at one point

Although it’s up in the air whether he still has it in the aftermath of all his injury and foul frustration since hitting the NBA. Specifically I’m thinking about the NCAA tournament when he swallowed up a Tennessee layup out of nowhere to win the game, and then submitted the best game of his college career in the finals against two legit NBA big men in the final.

Agreed that we’d need a second guy in our top three with “it”, though, and possibly a third role player with it as well. Specifically I’m thinking of teams like the Spurs where you had two assassins in Duncan and Ginobili combined with Horry as guys simply unwilling to lose at times. Obviously not every great team is representative of this same dynamic, but it’s an interesting thought, I think.

#52

by Royster on Mar 16, 2010 5:48 AM PDT reply actions  

more recently

Greg had a big 4th quarter against Denver in the preseason, where he was in beast mode and there was nothing that Nene or Anderson could do about it

we’ve had a taste, now we want the full meal deal

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

this was the point I was going to make as well. We all saw Greg have it, dominating Horford and Noah and nearly willing his team to the title.

The guy we really, really know doesn’t have it is LMA.

#52

by Cablinasian on Mar 16, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

LMA hasn't put himself in that position.

he had ample opportunity to step up against bigs in his short career during the regular season not to mention last year’s playoffs matchup with Houston.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Mar 16, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

He wasn't bad in last years playoffs

19.5 /7.5

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oden may yet show he has this "Refuse to Lose" mentality

But he needs to win a game with free throws to change the karma on the line.

Nick Anderson, a SF on Orlando when Shaquille got them into the Finals, missed big FTs and then was never the same. We saw this syndrome rrecently, to a much less melodramatic extent, with Steve Blake.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Greg definitively has it (That fire/attitude), I just hope he has a chance to reveal it.

LA, not so much, but was that him actually looking pleasantly hard-hitting last game? If he can start to bring some more of that, it ups our chances to be one of those teams that could be scary to face.

Bayless already has it, but needs a developed skill set to go with it. Which also means having only it, doesn’t really get you where you want to go.

I think Camby (a couple games back) diving for that loose ball and calling the timeout, showed me a lot about him. Even I was saying, NOOOO, let that one go – and I like scrappy play.

It’s hard to see Batum having it with that soft French accent. But he could surprise us even in that area, and he’s going to gain quite a bit of strength in the next 2-3 years.
Besides, who’s to say that finesses equates to not having that winning attitude. Running down fast breaks and taking the ball off the glass takes talent for sure, but to me it also takes desire. Defending the others teams best player every game is a feat as well – Don’t count Nic out on having the edge mentally.

I’m not sure how many we need on this team to be tough as nails. Another year of playing time, another year of growing physically stronger for the younger players (this one is big in my mind), another year of seeing how close we are, certainly will help everyone in the "I want this at any cost" department.

My overall thought/hope is this: If we can get close enough to the championship in such a way that makes everyone believe this is our trophy if we want it, we’ll see the attitude this team needs fully develop to go with it.

If they can reach out and touch it, they’ll get hungy.

Romance me with that Roy rainbow shot which took flight from way beyond the arc and sailed so high that before it came back down to earth sealing the victory, it kissed the rafters and said "You're mine baby."

by Blazer1342 on Mar 16, 2010 6:39 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree about greg actually

the problem is you need to FEEL powerful a bit out there and unstoppable at times to get your swagger. His injuries set that back. I think if he gets that groove, then the “nice kid” will start to vanish and you’ll see some mean and glee in stuffing a ball in someones face as well as scoring and knocking the other guy to the floor.

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Mar 16, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Greg

I agree about Greg…he has it…remember how he looked briefly this season….best guy on the team…game changer….but I also think your superstar needs to help enable and also truly want his mates to have that inner fire …to me …that is a true superstar………can’t do as much when you are being ignored under the basket….yeah Brandon….you…..even in the nose bleeds I could see Brandon not give Greg the time of day time and time again…..hopefully that will change next year…..and he has matured in knowing the value of a big man like Greg on HIS team….in my book a great team can manage with more than one superstar…and Greg is, will be and has the fire….and can also be a the nice guy that I love

Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"

by debra31098 on Mar 16, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am with you

Brandon needs to involve greg more when they are on the floor together. that was very frustrating early on…

the game is not about what worked in a year you did not win a title, it is about what will work to help you win that title.

Sure the Blazers had some nice seasons doing their thing, completely amazing actually, but then got chewed up in the playoffs. Brandon’s line about wondering why they couldn’t keep doing the things that worked the rior season sort of shocked me, that gameplan got destroyed in the playoffs last year…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brandon seemed to have a very short memory of last year's playoff series between

how he seemed to react to Oden’s play and Miller’s coming to the team. Hopefully he will have grown in this regard by the time Oden is back.

by Natsthecat on Mar 16, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he has it now

did you see that smirk on his face after htting that string of 3s in the Toronto game…it was like, you got nothing for me kinda look…

This team has been clicking since Boom Boom baatum hit the starting line up, do not underestimate what he brings to the table…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Barrett has been saying

that Nic’s absence was the biggest hit this year.
seems to be some truth to that.

"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks

by DucRider on Mar 17, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Saying Andre Miller has the winning chip on his shoulder is laughable

No doubt he’s got something on his shoulder, I like to call it a big chip of mediocrity. 10 years in the league and he couldn’t make the All Star team in the East, he’s never been out of the first round of the playoffs, and he showed at the start of this season, that he was willing to sacrifice winning for complaining. I might add, that if he cared about winning, he would try to do more in the off season, like find a jump shot or start the season in shape so he doesn’t put his team in a hole at the start of the season.

Andre Miller is the quintessential athlete doing something he is good at, rather than something he loves. He would probably rather be the lone guy in a lighthouse or writing a manifesto in crayons in some shed in the woods. He does not care about winning, the fans, his coach, or his teammates, he plays for a check.

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 7:21 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Rec for this line
He would probably rather be the lone guy in a lighthouse or writing a manifesto in crayons in some shed in the woods

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair

it seems that being good at complaining is a key element in championship caliber teams as of late.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your act is laughable.

Really Tom, are you actually in Hawaii? Get some sunshine, some fresh air, smell the plumeria, you know? Have a mai tai. Go outside. Get a life.

Or hell, at least a new shtick.

by pdxrob on Mar 16, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I type the truth

Miller will prove me right in the playoffs and my army will grow past the 3.5 members plus China. If not, then I’ll stick to my word and ban myself from Blazersedge for a year.

I’m really in Hawaii and it’s 6:30 in morning, I posted that at 4:21 in the morning and I’d get fired for drinking mai tais at work. I got a life, I just do not like Miller.

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta hand it to Tom

Miller complains more than that Russian guy who…um…well…didn’t quite win one of those “Olympic” events.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll let up after Miller loses the first round of the playoffs for the Blazers

Then I’ll ramp back up on draft day and I still plan to pretend to be homeless and get Miller at the Harvest Dinner if he’s still here.

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

They took care of a 1st round loss just fine without him last year.

To say that he will single-handedly do it this year makes no sense.

by Free Bayless on Mar 16, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I could always blame it on Bayless

Everyone else will blame Nate, but I know the truth. Miller will choke and it will suck. I would gladly be wrong, I’m just not. Miller can’t get out of the first round.

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a Blazers fan way, way, way, way over being a Miller hater

I hate Miller because I am a Blazers fan. I stuck with the team when they were the Jail Blazers and I wanted them to win, despite all the çøç˚ ߨç˚´®ß on the roster. Just because I don’t like a player on the team, doesn’t means I’m going to sell out my fandom.

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

let me get this straight..

you can’t stand Miller for all his complaining ?
I have no idea where the “doesn’t care about winning” comes from.

"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"

by Berkeley on Mar 16, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Miller is a limited player

who would love to be on a winner. But he’s only a supplementary part of the picture, someone who probably does think he’s better than he is. His 80% FT shooting and confidence with the ball late in games can be useful sometimes though. He’s not useless.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kobe is a limited player

everyoine has limits.

Miller just does not like to talk the media, all the stuff stirred up around him is incredible to me.

As near as i can tell, he thought he was better than Blake, well guess what he is better than Blake. Is it such a sin to point this out?

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

No kidding. I think if Miller didn't care about winning he would have quietly sat on the bench

and collected a paycheck. It was because he couldn’t stand watching the Blazers blow a 13 point lead in the 4th quarter to Memphis that he blew up during a PRIVATE meeting between coach and the players.

by Natsthecat on Mar 16, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you really think Andre is a "supplementary" player

all you have to do is look at how Philly has taken a dive this year without him

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think 'Dre is more than supplemental, too.

He’s got a pretty darn good all-around game except for 3pt shooting and his on-ball defense. Some of his defensive liability is made up for his craftiness at getting steals with those quick hands and long arms. He’s one of the few Blazers capable of drawing fouls and getting points down the lane (Roy and Bayless being the others) especially when our jump shooting is failing. It’s really too bad he hasn’t earned an All-Star spot. I put him about even with Jason Kidd in overall contribution yet neither has a ring (Kidd has All-Stars, though, whoopee!). Makes me wonder why the coaches haven’t put Andre in there….

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

For you Dave

Olympics spoiler:
We won all teh gamez.

Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.

by dpnim on Mar 16, 2010 7:28 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Right?

I can’t believe they still let him play.

Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.

by dpnim on Mar 16, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Guys, guys, c'mon...

it was just a modern re-interpretation of “The King and I” that went terribly wrong. Nothing premeditated.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Turned into Hamlet?

Wearing the black band for Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, Fred Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye, Luke Schenscher, Shavlik Randolph, James Jones, Josh McRoberts, Steven Hill, Jarron Collins, Michael Ruffin, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Sacrificed to the unmerciful god of progress.

Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by T Darkstar on Mar 16, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great.

Another literary debate gets sidetracked by Shakespeare. Seriously, it’s Oden vs. Durant all over again.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, now I'm depressed.

I thought victory was assured. Now some Swede with a 40 pound rock can derail it all.

The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers

by lukeyhere on Mar 16, 2010 7:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Wow!

I thought the tape-delay on the Olympics was bad over here!

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 8:28 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

lol

Andre Miller is an Anachronism

by tominhawaii on Mar 16, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I figured Batum was the other blazer

Surgical, for me, is a very good thing. Plus the kid has passion. Sometimes you need to start to feel the groove before you get that swagger. I really see Batum as a kid that will have it.

As for your other points about sports and stories… Much of our modern media is like this. You only have to look at healthcare to see it. Both sides can have excellent points, but because the spin creates or ruins jobs for politicians and because conflict sells in the news, there’s no middle ground. You’re a pinko commie leftist or a broom walking say no religious nutjob.

I find this current trend extremely troubling because it seems like the room for conversation and real debate is no longer there. Instead it’s like I walked into the room for an argument. The mistake that the gentleman in the python skit made is that an argument and debate are very different things.

This is why I value BE so much. The insight but also the discussions.

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Mar 16, 2010 8:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah I kinda of like this teams demeanor in general

if they can keep their gameflow together against the upper eschelon teams it will be awesome. Just pick teams apart with basically a poker face.

Sort of like those dudes in the Real McCoy with the Trenchcoats. Flat expressionaless, never run or hurry, but you can’t get away from them no matter what you do…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Clyde Drexler Blazers didn't have "it"

or they wouldn’t have lost the 15 point lead in the fourth quarter to hand the WCC to the …

We won’t know anything about this squad until they are in the moment….

by blacknoiseNW on Mar 16, 2010 8:49 AM PDT reply actions  

confused

me

are you talking about the 2000 western conference final series?

drexler was long gone by then

#52

by CatMan2 on Mar 16, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Drexler Blazers lost to the "Old Man" Magic Johnson Lakers to set up the series TV and the NBa desired

Magic vs Jordan (before he’d won a championship). The Blazers won 60+ games and had been in the Finals vs Detroit the year before. They were the favorites and let LA take it away. That was their best chance.

When people used to talk about that team as not being all that smart, they mostly meant Clyde. The stories that have trickled out since about his lack of practice — and just listening to him talk — have tended to back this up. He took a lot of bad shots a la Iverson.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

To this day

I blame Cliff for that loss. I will never forget that moment.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Game 1, 1991 WCF

Adelman took Drexler and Porter out of the game at the beginning of the 4th quarter with Portland up by double-digits. I want to say Ainge and Walter Davis were in the backcourt, and L*A went on a run and got back in the game. Portland coughed up the home court advantage and battled back in game 6 but then came the dropped pass on the 3-1 fast break and the missed Porter wing jumper

Duckworth kept getting the ball poked away by Divac in that series, Blazer fans felt so…helpless

That 63 win team was the Blazer’s best since ’78, but they got outsmarted. It hurts to say it now, but it hurt even more to watch it all slip away and then have to face L*ker fans at work, back then

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

But still

if Cliffy hadn’t of bobbled that fast break out of bounds, Blazers win game 6 going back to Portland.

by jigglyai on Mar 16, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was Porter's fault

if you go back and watch that video, Terry messed up the fast break

Cliff was running ahead on the right wing, only Byron Scott was back

Porter had the ball on the left, and he had the opportunity to throw a diagonal lob pass to Robinson, which Scott could not have defended

Instead, Porter flipped the ball to Kersey, who was running full speed down the middle of the court, on a collision course with Scott

Jerome was no great shakes as a ball handler, so to avoid the offensive foul, he quickly passed the ball low and hard to Robinson, who by this time was already under the backboard

Cliff was surprised by the sudden pass at his knees, and bobbled it out of bounds. And that’s all that most Blazer fans remember of game 6 (besides TP’s last miss and what Magic did with the rebound)

Whenever I see the replay, I instinctively say “PASS!” when Porter has the ball on the left wing and Robinson is approaching the basket from the right. But Terry always flips the ball to Jerome, to the everlasting sorrow of Blazer fans everywhere

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I did mix my comparisons

but Drexler’s final’s teams didn’t close, and no, he wasn’t to blame for 2000

by blacknoiseNW on Mar 16, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rasheed was the true choke artist, and I don't like that term

but he screwed his team again and again and again.

Notice he didn’t get all those technical fouls when he played for Larry Brown, a coach who could have called him out.

So he could control it, he just chose to indulge himself while he was a Blazer. And he didn’t want to be the Go-To guy although Steve Smith and Pippen etc just couldn’t handle that role by then.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blazers

This article reflects an important question that I have been thinking about lately which is: Look at each member of the team and ask, “can I picture this guy on a championship team”.

My thinking is, what you want is a rotation of 8 guys who all can thrive in a high pressure championship type environment.

I hadn’t thought it through too far yet with individual players but I had concluded that Cunningham is someone i could picture on a championship team. Maybe the 7 or 8 guy in the rotation, but someone that can fit on that championship rotation.

I sort of disagree with the article about Batum though. His dispassionate outlook I think would be a tremendous asset in a championship environment. Like they say, the gunfighters of the wild west that won were the ones that stayed totally calm when the guns were pulled, the ones that got rattled wound up dead. Batum does have a history of needing time to get adjusted to new situations (summer league, 2009 playoffs), but once he gets adjusted it appears to me that he can handle pressure well. I can picture Batum as startings SF on a championship team with no problem.

Brandon Roy of course no problem.

Not sure about Rudy. He seems to get rattled when games are going awry but he may be able to overcome that. Bayless, boy that’s a tough one. I’d say he needs to develop his game more before we can judge the more subtle questions.

I agree with the article and probably most everyone else that while I think Aldridge has a heck of a lot of talent, at this point I can’t picture him playing in crunch time of a game 7 for the championship.

by lsjogren on Mar 16, 2010 8:57 AM PDT reply actions  

good point

Good point about Rudy.

One other thing I forgot to mention, one reason I thought the trade with the Clippers was a good one is that Blake and Outlaw are two players that I think can help a lot in making the playoffs but aren’t going to help a team win a championship. Of course, Camby probably isn’t either since he is getting close to the end of his career. But the point is in my view Blazers didn’t give up anyone that fits on a championship rotation.

by lsjogren on Mar 16, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

The jury's still out on Travis. Last year vs the Rockets he had to cope with Battier and Artest.

He’s starting to play much better with the Clippers. I don’t know. I would much rather go with Batum, but I’m not sure Outlaw is a lost cause.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Outlaw gave up the baseline against the Rockets

the Houston player went around him for a lay-in

Nate barked at him from the sideline

Travis took exception and charged the coach, and was held back by Przybilla (this sequence was caught on video, but “downplayed” by Mike & Mike)

Outlaw is not wired for championship pressure. Sure he can hit jumpers in late game situations, but when it comes to the nuances of the game he’s a Catfish out of water

Blake, OTOH, would be a decent reserve PG on a final’s team, but as a starter he’s below-average (no shocking news, there)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Rudy likes the big stage and has risen to the occasion.

Batum just needs 35 minutes/gm which it now looks like he’s going to get.

Nate has shown a distinct loss of confidence in Martell. Which Martell — in terms of ever hitting big shots or coming through in the clutch — has earned. He’s not big time.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can picture Aldridge doing it

but I do have my doubts. I think having no expectations for the playoffs this season (unfortunately due the the rash of injuries) will give a good opportunity for Aldridge to prove us wrong.

He does have the talent, There is not much prettier a happening on the court than him sprinting down the floor on a fast break…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gasol does

and that guy was afraid of playing for LA because the expectations were higher.

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Batum does have a history of needing time to get adjusted to new situations… 2009 playoffs

I submit that this had more to do with Ron Artest shouldering Nic under the basket stanchion

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

no it was earlier

but Adelman made sure that Ron-Ron got the ball in the post at the beginning or each half and Artest backed Batum down and scored on him, as you would expect. That forced Nate to insert Travis early so Nic wound up playing marginal minutes in that series

Another opponent would’ve likely resulted in a different playoff performance from #88, it’s not like he froze up or choked as a rookie last April. And like you said, it wasn’t like he was completely healthy during the post season or the Eurobasket tournament (where he played extremely well for team France, last August)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't believe you just ruined the end of the

womens’ curling match for me!
P.S.
Snape kills Dumbledore.

by TPforprez on Mar 16, 2010 9:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Snape kills Dumbledore.

ARRRRRRRRRG!!!!!!!!

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Mar 16, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think Oden will come back with huge motivation to prove something.

I hope he comes back a little snippy, chippy, angry, whatever you want to call it. He has got the tools to dominate and he has shown at times in his career the willingness to dominate. I think if he can stay healthy he’ll get a little ‘bad boy’ in him once his game comes around and he starts handing out facials and volleyball swats to opponents. Will he rise into that elite status? Only time will tell. But alongside a couple of assassins in Roy and Batum, a gamer like Miller, and his perfect compliment in LMA, we’ll get the opportunity to see next year.

It made me think about how many ‘refuse to lose centers’ there really have been in the association?….Olajuwon tops my list. Duncan if you consider him a center (he’s a PF). Maybe Robinson. Most of the others were great but almost always were second or third fiddle (Parrish, Jabar) or just didn’t win a championship even though they were great (Ewing, Mutumbo). I’ve never considered Shaq a ‘gamer’ he’s just bigger, same with Wilt. I know there are others to consider, help me out!

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Shaq

I think has that killer instinct…he demanded that ball in critical situations and often put teams away…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Shaq's definitely got the rings and 'had' the killer attitude...

but his last few years have kind of ruined it for me. He doesn’t seem to care too much anymore but still likes pulling the fat paycheck. He can still be effective at times but I just don’t feel it from him like you did in his Laker days…

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I see your point

that is why you leave when you are on top I suppose…

He is slower than he was, suffering from more injury problems…

i don’t know he has something to contribute in any event, but honestly the Suns were a terrible fit for him given his physical condition. I suppose the final verdict will come playoff time this season

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, we'll see how he fares in the playoffs...

He might have a bounce back year but I’d be shocked if he started demanding the ball from LeBron. He’s a complimentary player at best…

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

right

but that is because he is slower and he probably has constant aches and pains. No doubt he is not as good as he was, but so what, he still gives the Cavs something they need…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

with the help of the refs. Sorry to harp on this but the uncalled charge was a big part of his game

certainly vs Sabonis. And he was light on his feet, he was capable of all sorts of skilled moves. But more than any other player I’ve ever seen in the NBA he got the benefit of dubious whistles and he would just slam into whoever guarded him and foul them out.

It was ugly.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

no doubt

but that does not negate that he had a killer instinct. maybe he had an unfair advantage given to him by the refs. i just do not see how it is relevant to the discussion…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I could more uniformly disagree with a paragraph

than your second one, aside from the characterization of Olajuwon. David Robinson was uniformly considered too nice of a guy and a choker in the playoffs, basically the opposite of what Dave is talking about. As to the rest, We-B-Dunkin addressed Kareem, you can check out Shaq’s career averages in the NBA finals to answer the question with him, the only thing that’s really held him back is his FT shooting. Duncan is, for all intents and purposes, a center, and personifies this idea perfectly.

Of course, you’re also leaving out the guys farther back who were arguably some of the biggest “we’re not losing this game” guys ever. Bill Russell (second only to Jordan, probably), Bill Walton (huge in the playoffs in ’77), and Willis Reed (THAT game, obviously). You could also make arguments for Moses Malone (owned the playoffs when Philly won in ’83) or Dave Cowens (not the biggest scorer, but defined tenacious).

#52

by Royster on Mar 16, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not sure the tone of your response even deserves my response...

I know there are others to consider, help me out!

Regardless, I address my feelings for Shaq above and Jabar below. Bill Russell definitely should be included and maybe Moses Malone. I can’t put some of the other guys who had only one great season, one great game, or one great series into the same category. I also can’t put guys in there that just have great careers statistically simply because they were the most talented, athletic, and/or biggest dude on the floor. That leaves us with just a handful of centers who really dominated through a large part of their careers, won titles, and were almost always the 1st option throughout.

In no particular order I’d put Olajuwon, Russell, Jabar and Duncan standing above the rest. I’d probably put Shaq and Malone near the top as well (sorry Shaq I love you but you’re getting fat and lazy). Then there is everyone else…

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Willis Reed

was a 7-time all star, one-time MVP and 2-time finals MVP. Writing him off because one game made him truly iconic is a mistake.

Also as to the Shaq discussion. Duncan isn’t dominating games much anymore (and is 5 years younger), Kareem was mostly an afterthought on those late ’80’s Laker teams before he retired, Hakeem wasn’t able to do much dominating of Sam Perkins/Ervin Johnson and Greg Ostertag in the playoffs after their second title, but none of those guys are punished on these “lists” for falling off, Shaq’s just more visible since he’s still around and been mediocre for a while. Unless you’re going to ding all of them for losing it later in their careers (and basically everyone at every other position but Magic who had his career cut short before he declined), Shaq deserves to be up there with the rest of them. Heck this is a guy who, in three straight finals, scored over 40 more times in those three series than he scored under 30 and while averaging about 15 rebounds per game.

I’d rather judge guys on how they performed at their peaks, and Shaq at his peak had much more of “it” for a solid 3 years than pretty much any perimeter player outside of the Jordan/Magic/Bird triumvirate.

#52

by Royster on Mar 16, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Que?

I haven’t flagged anything today. Ask the mods.

#52

by Royster on Mar 16, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a simple request to drop the patronizing tone of your respones...

My original question was intended to by an open, friendly discussion thus the:

I know there are others to consider, help me out!

And you responded with an openly patronizing comment of “I’m not sure I could more uniformly disagree…” which doesn’t bode well for friendly discussion. Along with “you’re also leaving out the guys farther back” which could have been rephrased as “I would like to add or suggest…” That’s why I wrote “help me out”. Then you follow up the “writing him off” when I wasn’t writing him off. I’m not writing the end-all-be-all list. And then you go on to suggest I am “punishing” players by leaving them off the list. Again there was no intention of it being anything other than an open discussion.

I’ve read how you respond to many posters on this blog and have found your tone quite disparaging too often. You just finally happened to cross me and it is not appreciated…

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

he’s just bigger, same with Wilt

Chamerlain was a big part of 2 of the greatest teams in NBA history (‘66-67 ’76ers, ’71-72 L*kers) If not for Boston/Russell he would’ve owned the NBA in the decade of the ‘60s. Wilt was the man, the league’s most dominant player until MJ came along. He averaged 50 ppg for an entire season. #13 led the league in rebounding for years and assists one year. The NCAA and the NBA made rules changes because of the Stilt. To claim Chamberlain wasn’t “all that” as a competitor was to be born too late to realize the impact he made on Naismith’s game

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 16, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

You left out Russell and Malone

just to name two. Bill Russell was a fierce competitor who got himself into such a state before big games that he’d sometimes throw up. Moses Malone was a legendary stopper and rebounder, famous for his comment “If you ain’t got the ball, you cain’t shoot the ball”.

by dmacb on Mar 16, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

clinchmobb how old are you?

Jabbar won championships before Magic calling him second or third fiddle is comical to me he was the man for a long time.

Batumshakalaka!

by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 16, 2010 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

I did forget about his Milwaukee Buck days, he was pretty stellar then!

but he was also playing with the “Big-O” for several of those years.

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

He played with Jabar from 1970 through 1974....

won a championship, several division titles, and was in the finals again in 1974…yes his stats declined but Jabar wasn’t doing by himself!

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've always considered Robinson

one of the greatest players of all time, but I never considered him to have a killer instinct. I think he could have earned a few more trophies if he had a little more of a chip on his shoulder.

by TPforprez on Mar 16, 2010 10:25 AM PDT reply actions  

He was a strange guy, a little crippled by religion

He could play classical piano… but I remember an interview in which someone asked him about what books he read and he replied, “The Bible is the only book I need.”

That’s going too far for me.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 16, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

You always pulled for him though...

at least I did. And in that era, he was one of the more successful high-character guys in the NBA.

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Greg in that tourney run for the buckeyes

ripped up a lot of teams. The man is trying to figure out the pro game, once he gets confident he will get after it.

On another note, talking about that killer insticnt, anybody else see that Bird-Magic special they are running on HBO?

I was intensely interested in Bird talking about how happy he was that he knew Magic was suffering in the opposing locker room when the Celtics beat them for the title

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

That was a great documentary

I loved it

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

it was

On another note

I watched some trailblazer courtside and a caller was on their pushing boom boom batum and taking credit for it!

I stole it from some signs at a game that said Boom Batum…but man, I feel like it got snaked from me on BE! Of course I want that nickname to stick!!

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw that too (Courtside) and was lol-ing

We are a small but vocal fringe group….( I too claimed to originate it…see the Junk Drawer today).

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

While I could not find the thread where I originated that nickname

I did find this

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

B-Roy is the key

Kobe has it for L.A.
Garnett brought it to the Celtics
Wade has it and won a championship with it for the Heat
LeBron has it for the Cavs

B-Roy has that killer instinct but just needs to bring it with more consistency. During the recent game at Golden State, he was steely eyed focused and I knew he wasn’t going to let the Blazers lose that game. If he brings that determination all the time, it will carry over to the team.

by crazybee on Mar 16, 2010 10:52 AM PDT reply actions  

I have to say

I don’t agree with either of Dave’s points.

Lindsey Vonn is a 3 time overall world cup champion. She holds the US record for most world cup wins. I could list a lot more superlatives, but suffice it to say she’s the most accomplished US alpine skier ever. That is why she got a lot of coverage. Was some of it overkill? Sure. I don’t feel at all bad for the relatives of the other skiers. If they couldn’t make it out to the event, they could have watched the entire event streamed online. There were ways to watch the other skiers. I’m no NBC fan, but there’s a reason Vonn got a lot of coverage.

Regarding the curling match and “it.” How about Canada just missed? How about that? I saw her make a number of clutch end of match shots during the tournament. She missed the last one. Reading from that that she doesn’t have “it” just drives me crazy.

Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984

by jksnake99 on Mar 16, 2010 12:09 PM PDT reply actions  

it is sort of a function of our winner take all society though

That is why stress related diseases such as hypertension and heart disease are so prevelant. You gotta be the winner or you suck.

Guess what only 1 guy/team wins in our system. If you do not win something is wrong with you. It tmakes for compelling drama for things like sports, but is a horrible model otherwise honestly.

The interesting dynamic here is that we pretend to honor greatness and excellence by crowning champions but we devalue it tremedously when we say the team that got beat just did not have this amorphous ‘it’. They lost because they were deficient is the implication here, not because that other team was that good or even just better on that night/series, Nope the victor was not better the loser did not have ‘it’, whatever ‘it’ is…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 16, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're right in that...

Vonn is a bad*ss and deserved the coverage. But it was overkill to keep talking about/with her when there was so much else going on and she wasn’t winning (unlike Phelps who was winning and deserved the additional coverage). I think it is a problem with the format altogether. There are an infinite number of ‘stories’ to tell but not enough time. The problem is that NBC probably had too high of expectations about the Americans, in general, and focused their coverage on the elite win or lose. I’m probably in the minority in that I’d rather see the best athletes in each event as well as the Americans in each event. Instead, we got a lot of coverage about the Americans with the highest expectations regardless of how they performed…

Regarding the curling, there was a lot of clutchness going on throughout that match…‘it’ had nothing to do with ‘it’!

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

they did hype her too much

the pre-olympics Phelps comparisons were absurd. Phelps is the greatest swimmer ever, while Vonn is just the best American alpine skier ever, in a sport Americans definetily do not excel in as much as swimming.

still, here is the entire list of American women who have won the Olympic downhill:

Vonn, Lindsey

end of list.

She was overhyped for sure, but not as much as e.g. Apolo Ohno (who’s results I won’t spoil but who only had 2 golds— 1 legitimate— at the start of these Vancouver Olympics making the comparisons to 5 time gold medalists Eric Heiden and Bonnie Blair a joke).

Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984

by jksnake99 on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

agree with the Vonn hype...

Ohno still defines his sport especially for his (this?) generation…No surprise there in their coverage especially since it appears the Olympics are trying to draw more younger people in with more ‘action’ sports such as short track skating and skier/boarder cross. I personally like these and any event involving/combining cross country skiing (eg biathalon, nordic combined) as the most exciting Winter sports to watch because they are head-to-head and not just against the clock.

We'll miss you #2 & #25!

by clinchmobb on Mar 16, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've seen this same split in kids

As a father of a 12 year old, we’ve recently gone through this same discussion about the kids on his soccer team. Two years ago, he was on a Rec team, but also working with a Classic team. During practices and games, it was easy to see that he just didn’t have the focus/drive/whatever that some of the other kids did. We prepared him for the try-outs, and he performed well, but his coaches remembered his earlier inconsistent play and he didn’t make the team. He was able to turn it on, but, again, it was obvious that the kids that did make the team were at another level. Not necessarily in ability, just in that focus or drive that pushed them toward wanting to consistently play hard and win. It was hard for me, but I realized that, at least at the time, my son just didn’t have this.

Also, as Dave mentions, I realized that this isn’t something that can come from the outside, it has to come from within. And, just as everyone develops skills at a different pace, so do they develop this “ability” at different times.

But, by their twenties, I’d think this would be pretty set. Obviously, these guys are elite athletes, so what I’m talking about is all relative; their bar has to be much higher than most. Some may still develop a higher bar as they get older and they see just how much work it takes. Some may be able to temporarily “move up” given the environment of certain teammates and situations. But, I’d think most of these guys are pretty set.

And, I don’t think Aldridge has it. He has moments, like in the 1st quarter against the Raptors where it looked like he really enjoyed picking apart the defense. But, he can’t seem to sustain that for a whole game, or even half a game most of the time.

by rlusardi on Mar 16, 2010 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Well done, sir.

The below quote clearly sums up some thoughts I’ve been pondering for years in a fashion refreshing and insightful.
" Losing has far more gravity than winning does. In fact winning might be described as having no gravity of its own, rather it’s what happens when you escape losing’s gravity. If you leave things as they are, if you aren’t consciously and actively fighting against losing, it’s going to suck you in. It’ll get you on that last throw, that last inch. It’ll snatch the trophy out of your hands and stick a “what could have been” pacifier in your mouth instead. Let that happen to you even once—or worse, become accustomed to sucking that binky for comfort—and you’re going to have a hard time putting things right again."

Seeking whimsy

by Y5k on Mar 16, 2010 4:31 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

How many does a team need?

I can’t imagine an entire roster full of win-or-die-trying players so how many does it take to carry the team? Obviously one can’t do it … 3 … 5 … 7 ? How many?

I’m surprised to see Rudy on the list, but I’m not going to argue about it other than to say that he seems to be more motivated in some games than in others. Like playing against Calderon …

I’m also surprised not to see people arguing for Bayless or have things changed since I was last involved here? I like Dave’s comments about where his intensity is focused. I call him a “Brandon wannabe” because it seems like he often tries to take over but he hasn’t got the knack … at least yet. The intensity doesn’t always result in good decisions and he can look simply like a poor imitation of B-Roy.

Glad to read all the support for Dante as he has become one of my favorites.

"Most of the people reading and commenting here are smart, thoughtful, reasoned, and both capable of and interested in good conversation." - Dave, about Blazersedge, 07/29

by jorga on Mar 16, 2010 7:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I read this post earlier

It has a much different flow now that everyone has inserted comments in the middle of the thread. I don’t know how to do that, but to the person who commented that Terry Porter actually made a mistake once. You must be wrong sir!

by TPforprez on Mar 16, 2010 10:22 PM PDT reply actions  

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