Where has Cunningham gone?
by skott75 on Mar 15, 2010 9:43 PM PDT
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So over the last 5-6 games it seems like Nate has started to finally settle on a rotation. I had been hoping he would do this for the last two months. The problem, for me, is that he seems to have settled on Howard over Cunningham for our rotation big. Now I don't think Howard should be left out. He has done a lot for us this year, but Cunningham was starting to become a real defensive asset for us in the second unit. He Is just a more versitile player than howard. Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to get him some playoff experience for next year? I may be overreacting, and it could be just this stretch, but I hope he is part of our late season plans.
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You are not overreacting...
Very mildly stated question and a valid one. There are a few match-ups and units for which I prefer Howard, but in general I would prefer to see Cunningham play more. He’s more of a threat on the break. He offensive rebounds well. He’s quicker in defensive rotations (both stepping up for charges and closing on shooters). He blocks more shots. He’s quicker to loose balls. Howard has a better post-up game and is probably a better passer, but that’s about it.
Meh...
Howard just has waaay more experience. He’s going to make less mistakes. Its an easy for call for a coach that wants to win now. Vet > Rookie. Cunningham will have plenty of playing time in the next few seasons. I do miss his mouth piece though…
by Is it The Shoes? on Mar 15, 2010 10:06 PM PDT reply actions
Sucks for Dante, and me. As much as I want to see the inferno play more, Howard is just a better option right now. He has that veteran savvy that really helps.
The thing I loooooove about J-ho is how he fouls HARD to prevent easy buckets. I love it. No other Blazers do it, and they should.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
foul trouble will rear it's ugly head
There will come a time when LMA, Camby, and/or Howard will get into simultaneous foul trouble and Nate will need to call on Cunningham and/or Pendergraph. Probably during a playoff game. Then we’ll see how ready they are to contribute. The post season is no time to develop rookies, but sometimes circumstances make it necessary
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Amen brother, amen.
The thing I loooooove about J-ho is how he fouls HARD to prevent easy buckets. I love it. No other Blazers do it, and they should.
It wasn't the first time I'd been kicked in the cherries and called a rat by a woman, but it was the first time I didn't mind.
by shenanigans on Mar 15, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Correction
The thing I loooooove about J-ho is how he fouls HARD to prevent easy buckets. I love it. No other Blazers do it, and they should.
Camby fouls the daylights out of people when he needs to – plus I loved how after he fouled (Bosh? Hedo?) he blocked the shot so there wouldn’t be the ‘and one’ situation.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
hard fouls are good but...
I too, like that J-Ho fouls in such a way as to not allow the player to make the shot. However, lately he has been committing too many flagrant fouls, and at very inopportune times during the game. Giving the other team fouls shots “and” the ball back just isn’t a smart veteran move and I’m baffled as to why he does it.
My bet
Is that it is directly related to fatigue. He’s OLD.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
no. Not even close. Howard is absolutely terrible.
Howard is the worst rotation player of the western playoff teams, and needs to play only emergency C minutes.
Having him in the regular rotation is an absolute joke.
Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984
here's some ammo
other metrics, like KP2’s WARP or PER agree that Dante is a much, much better option than Howard.
Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984
Not a advanced stat guy so forgive me if I am wrong
But on the plus/minus stats that you just posted is Martell not almost double of Batum? Strange if true.
#52
by blazermaniac32 on Mar 16, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, and you should clearly take that with more than a grain of salt
but, every other metric you look at, including the far less noisy ones, agree that Dante is a promising rookie and already a decent role player, while Howard simply doesn’t belong in an NBA rotation.
Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984
All of the stats also pointed to Pendergraph being a better player than Juwan
and there was a vocal group of people that thought he should start over Juwan. We all know how that turned out once Pendy got a chance. I think Dante needs to be used more depending on matchups. Playing Juwan over Dante against the warriors was almost laughable, even though he did manage to have a decent game on the offensive end. I wouldn’t mind seeing Dante pick up some of Juwan’s minutes(I dont think he should ever play more than 20mpg unless there is foul trouble), but clearly the coaching staff is more comfortable with Howard on the floor for reasons that probably don’t show up in the stat sheet…
RUDY > MJ
Thank you KP
yeah, the stats Ben posted on Pendy's defense shut me up about that right quick
If there’s something like that for Dante’s defense, I’d be surprised.
I think Howard is playing too many minutes at C instead of Camby (I guess I can live with 10 mpg as the backup C for Juwan though I’d rather Dante at 4 with LA at 5) and too many minutes at 4 ahead of Dante.
Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984
I agree with this
He does get too many minutes over Camby, hopefully this is just ease integrating Camby into the lineup and conserving his energy for the games that will really matter. I would also like to see more Dante over Howard at the backup 4 spot, but it depends on matchups. Dante gets pushed around pretty easily by traditional 4’s, those kind of matchups benefit Juwan over Dante. Its the matchups where big 3’s playing at the 4 like Maggette, Melo, Wallace etc that Howard needs to sit and Dante needs to play. That really hasnt been the case which is frustrating to me. I love Dante, I hope he is here a long time…
RUDY > MJ
Thank you KP
CMON JAKE
IT DOESNT MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE! VETERANS SHOULD PLAY OVER ROOKIES!
Heartbroken..... Our goats have escaped.
by Starvin' Marvin on Mar 16, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
signed Bruce Bochy
Firmly in favor of making a coaching change at the end of the season.
Free AK1984
Dante is a better NBA player at this stage of Juwan’s career. He should be getting at least a large chunk of Juwan’s minutes.
by Cablinasian on Mar 16, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Dante's a rookie, Juwan's a vet
There’s no question which one I’d rather trust to fill minutes in the playoffs.
It doesnt bother me much
Mostly because I believe Dante should, and hopefully will be here a long time. Howard has played pretty well in his recent games, relatively speaking. You can count on him to at least hold down the fort while he is in there while Dante will have ups and downs. I think you go with consistency in your 3rd big, even if it is average at best performances…
RUDY > MJ
Thank you KP
And Juwan is probably retiring if not gone from the team
After this year.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Juwan was talking today about returning to the Blazers next year.
He likes it here and has had fun this year, his best year since 2006-7. If he does return he’ll play much less next year, assuming “normal injury patterns” for the team next year.
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Mar 16, 2010 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd love to keep Howard around
He’s cheap insurance and he can teach the young ’uns all sorts of craft veteran tricks.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
I'd love to have him here long-term as a coach
I think he’d be a great assistant coach.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Nate is settling into an 8-man rotation for the rest of the year and playoffs.
Roy, LMA, Camby, Miller, and Batum. Howard, Rudy, and Bayless off the bench.
Webster will soon only be getting “nothing is working tonight, I’ll try something else” minutes, plus foul trouble, injury, and garbage time minutes the rest of the year. Cunningham’s quality time is done for the year, but he should inherit Webster’s backup minutes next year.
The small forward logjam is over. Check that off the Blazers 2009-10 to-do list. Outlaw is gone and I don’t expect Webster to be here next year unless Rudy crashes and burns and heads back to Spain (or demands a trade).
The next 13 games (plus the 4 or 5 playoff games) should determine Rudy’s fate for next year. That was also on the Blazers to-do list this year. I think it’s 50-50 we should keep him, but I suspect Paul Allen wants him back so Rudy won’t get included in a trade. But if Rudy loses his confidence again and regresses, he could split for Spain or ask for a trade (I still think he has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card from Allen).
Webster/Rudy + Bayless (or Webster/Rudy + Miller) could get us a future/new starting PG. But if we can’t resign Camby something else will have to be done with our tradable assets this summer.
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Mar 16, 2010 3:47 AM PDT reply actions
Martell
The small forward logjam is over. Check that off the Blazers 2009-10 to-do list. Outlaw is gone and I don’t expect Webster to be here next year unless Rudy crashes and burns and heads back to Spain (or demands a trade).
So Rudy will be playing the 3? Or do you envision Dante taking Martell’s minutes and the only way Marty sees the floor is as a 2?
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
I suspect Paul Allen wants him back so Rudy won’t get included in a trade. But if Rudy loses his confidence again and regresses, he could split for Spain or ask for a trade (I still think he has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card from Allen).
Agreed. It’s incredible to note the regression in Webster’s confidence and minutes since January. On the one hand, it makes sense he’ll be dealt this summer, but since he seems to be willing to accept “whatever” role he’s given by Nate, he might be more useful as insurance against injuries to one of the other wing players. His trade value was probably at an all-time high back in early Feb, but now you’d have to find a rival GM who really believes in Marty’s potential to get a decent offer for him. Just throwing him in as “salary filler” in a combo dealer seems un-KP-like to me. (Martell was the #6 selection in the ’05 draft, after all)
I assume you read Jason Filppi’s comments about PA’s man-love for Rudy. As long as Fernandez doesn’t make a stink about his role and PT, I don’t think KP could ever concoct a trade proposal involving #5 that the owner won’t shoot down. But like you intimated, I think there almost “had” to be a side-deal between Rudy and Portland to get him to accept the rookie minimum to play in the NBA versus the money that CSKA was (allegedly) offering him back in ‘08. (I understand it was his “dream” to play against the best, but earning 20 mil vs 5 mil over a four year period will buy a guy a whole lot of dreams!) Unless Rudy’s really not all about the money…color me skeptical.
Otherwise, he’s playing some great BB and there’s no other compelling reason for the Blazers to deal him…unless another team’s GM blows Paul Allen’s socks off with a blockbuster trade idea
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think Webster showed enough in Jan to still have decent trade value in a package deal.
I think he is presently too inconsistent and needs significant minutes to develop and gain the confidence he needs to become consistent (although it may never happen for him). So I don’t see any sense in keeping him here just waiting for injuries to make playing time for him. We need the backup SF minutes behind Batum (who should be playing 30+ from now on) for our 3-guard offense (a lot of Rudy’s time) plus a few minutes for Cunningham.
But I think there are GM’s that would value getting Webster (particularly in a package deal with other assets) and can afford to give him minutes to see if it will all click in for him someday. I think we could see an interesting package deal involving Webster and another prominent Blazer this summer.
I got a lot of heat around here last fall for saying I though Batum would turn out to be a better shooter than Webster. Well, guess what?
I don’t know anything about Jason Filppi’s comments, but it’s always been clear to me (since PA personally went to Spain to recruit Rudy) that Allen was emotionally invested in Rudy. It was quite apparent watching Allen last year, and especially when Rudy became such a fan favorite. But yes, I believe he had to promise Rudy that he would release or trade him if Rudy decided he didn’t like his Blazer situation or the NBA, although it makes sense to me that he would get a two-year commitment from Rudy (finished this season) and that’s why we have heard snippets that Rudy might consider returning to Spain this summer if he wasn’t happy.
I don’t know how much we really learned (or will learn) about Rudy this year. I ignore the early part of his season (pre-surgery) because he was obviously in pain and discomfort. Then he came back and was clearly rusty and lost confidence (passing up open 3-pt shots, etc). But he now seems to have found his confidence again so we can evaluate him over this final stretch of the season. The problem is that I expected it would take most of a season for him to experiment and find out what would really work for him besides just shooting 3’s (develop a move or two to get good mid-range shots inside the perimeter, figure out ways to finish when driving to the basket, find the right risk/reward balance in his passing). I don’t think there is really enough time for much of that now, but I expect he will be back (if he wants to be) because of Allen regardless.
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Mar 16, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I got a lot of heat around here last fall for saying I though Batum would turn out to be a better shooter than Webster. Well, guess what?
Not from me, I’ll reckon…although I don’t think anyone could have expected Nic to become a 40/50/90% guy coming right off shoulder surgery. Martell did those same shooting drills (from the chair) when he was rehabbing his foot, but Batum has sure reaped more benefits from them
I don’t know anything about Jason Filppi’s comments,
“"Paul Allen, just like I said, he loves our team, but if Rudy it´s not his favorite he´s definitively one of his favorites. And that´s one reason why Rudy is considered untradable. The opposite teams wanted Rudy Fernandez …broke the deal, Paul Allen, our management, say no way, Rudy is untradable, it´s like Brandon Roy.”
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/19/1317525/jason-filippi-interviewed-by-marca
I believe he had to promise Rudy that he would release or trade him if Rudy decided he didn’t like his Blazer situation or the NBA
Rudy has been vocal about his discontent with his role in Portland (last year, not recently) but that discontent sure didn’t trigger any “escape” clause. (There was a rumor that negotiations were in process last year on a deal that involved Rudy going to PHX, but the Blazer’s staff rejected it on a narrow vote.) This was after Rudy complained about being “stuck in the corner” in the Blazer’s offense. Then, instead of being dealt, Fernandez was given more ballhandling responsibiities.
figure out ways to finish when driving to the basket,
Well, we’ve seen the effects of the “la bamba” tear drop experiment. I’ve always felt that when this kind of shot fails to drop it should count as a turnover…kind of like Clyde’s leaning (flat) jumpers that went doink off the rim and became the first pass to the opponent’s fast break!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Minutes
Juan and Marcus are older players so it might be in our best interest to keep an eye on their minutes. So, give Dante some time and give these guys some rest before the playoffs. Sometimes towards the end of the game I notice Juan getting tired and he has a tendency to make mistakes and bad fouls.
Your point is a good one
Cunningham is a big + in the +/- category. Howard is a big – in the +/- category. On defense all Howard can do at this point is push and foul (although he does this very well). When the match up is right, and he does not have to help too much on perimiter players as they drive into the lane, he can help us. When the player he is guarding is more mobile and athletic, and players are driving into the lane, he has a tendency to bring our whole defense down.
Dante has his ups and downs—he is a rookie, but at times he is downright special. I would like to see him take many of Juwan’s minutes. I love Juwans leadership, but it is hard to take when our defense becomes porous.
21 + 52=
It is that time of year...
were teams tighten up there rotation for the playoffs. Looks like Webster is getting squeezed out too.
Size
A lot of people have mentioned experience, and that is a valid reason why Howard is getting minutes over Dante. However, I also believe Dante is undersized to defend most players at the 4 spot in the NBA. As he gets older he will fill in more probably and gain more experience defending bigger players. Right now playing Howard over him is a no-brainer due to Howard’s experience and how much he’ stepped up for the Blazers this season. Now, going forward I LOVE Dante and hope he gets regular 20+ minute games next season. But now is his time to watch and learn until his # gets called.
I agree!
Cunningham’s defense is remarkable. He seems to understand how to defend on an instinctive level. And I like his jumper. He doesn’t appear to think, because he’ too buy shooting. It works for him. It works for the team.
Travis should have given that approach a try. All that foolish dribbling, juking, and jiving, it will not be missed.
Howard has a nice jumper as well, but the defense seems awfully soft we he’s in there.
Perhaps it’s a matter of position. I really like Dante at the 3, and sometimes the 4, depending on the match-up. There’s not as many available minutes there. Howard can play the 5, which tells you all you need to know.
This is the best explanation I've seen.
Dante can’t defend 5s. Juwan often defends 5s even with LMA on the floor.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I love Chunningham as much as any Blazer fan
but now is the time to win, not develop young players. Dante will get his shot at the backup big role next season in spring training, for now Howard does what is asked of him, and Dante should only play when foul trouble arises.
Thank God coach Nate finally found a rotation that works, as many suspected it took a KP trade to reduce the ranks for the coach to do it, but it is done none the less. Too bad for Webster, but he has really become a good pro, and I think will stay ready for the chance that he will get at some point before this year is done.
Right now, the 8 that are playing are the best 8 players on the team that are healthy, I love the short rotation, and i believe it will lead to better basketball at both ends.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
but… Dante is a better player than Juwan. So, shouldn’t we give the guy that is better time to develop even further?
by Cablinasian on Mar 16, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
this is not the time
Dante’s job right now is to be a strong practice player and be ready in case of injury or foul trouble. The stretch run and the playoffs are no place for a rookie 2nd round draft choice. Cunningham’s an exceptional talent with high BBIQ, but the action is chippy and the refs don’t give the rookies a break during the post season. It’s circle the wagons time, now
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yeah...
like most, I’ll take juwan over dante right now because they both that mid-range jumper but juwan has the obvious experience. But dante will get his experience here and there as the season winds down. I don’t know about the playoffs but maybe he’ll get spot minutes along with pendy.
...and that's the bottom line 'cause nicolas batum said so!
I think that as the playoff’s near all teams are tightening their rotations which means less min. available for all backups. If it get down to it Juwan has the experience needed to deal with the trick that go on during the games. Dante and Jeff will not get the benefit of calls. (we know Jeff already has a rep and rookies are not getting the calls in the playoff for the most part.
by Uncle Dave in NC on Mar 16, 2010 5:56 PM PDT reply actions
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