Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

Very interesting new approach to adjusted-plus minus presented at the recent Sloan conference. The link above provides a nice explanation of both "traditional" adjusted-plus minus and his "regularized" version of it. Definitely worth reading if you have the patience for it.

The most interesting result he produced concerning the Blazers is Brandon Roy's defensive rating (not very good).

almost 2 years ago P6230146_tiny PoliSam 12 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

wow, that is a hole lotta werds. Is there a summary somewhere in there?

I get the paper, so I don't care!

by Name's Ash on Mar 10, 2010 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

A brief summary

He uses out-of-sample fit (also called cross-validation) to determine the following:

-1) how to discount data from previous years
-2) what the cutoff should be for minimum number of minutes
-3) a reasonable constraint on how noisy the data should be

A brief discussion of each issue:

1)There is a debate among adjusted plus-minus people whether or not you should use prior years in coming up with a number. Proponents of adding previous years say, “the more data, the more reliable the estimate.” Opponents say, “we only really care about this year and players change.” There’s no obvious answer to the question theoretically so he tries to estimate the right balance of new and old information by see how well models predict the future based on different discount rates.

2)There is also a debate about what to do with players that play a small number of minutes. Because the data is noisy, these players can have really wacky estimates for their APM, which throws everything off. On the other hand, if you lump all low minute players together, it is possible that the models incorrectly believe Patty Mills = Jeff Pendegraph. Again, he resolves the issue by looking at how well different minute cut-offs affect the fit of the model.

3) This is the trickiest to explain. Essentially, the idea is that the models that estimate APM assume that any estimate for a player or a unit’s APM is possible. Logically speaking, however, we know that even LeBron James should have a true APM of +50. By giving the model some expectations for how variable different units should be, it might produce better results. He uses the same method to determine what these expectations should look like.

by PoliSam on Mar 10, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you!!

I still have a concern about plus-minus in general, and in all forms. Maybe it is addressed somewhere, I don’t know, but it seems too broad.

Especially on the Blazers, I mean, with all the injuries, the remaining players were asked to play different roles than they usually do. All the substituting was affected, and who each player is matched up against is also affected.

Is this a valid concern? Is anyone addressing it?

I get the paper, so I don't care!

by Name's Ash on Mar 11, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I like it that he sticks it to Bynum, of course

Brandon showing up at 105, Joe Johnson at 103, both 100 behind Varejao

for 09-10, he has Bo Outlaw at 242. Quite a legacy

"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy

by Honka Playboy on Mar 10, 2010 4:49 PM PST reply actions  

fwiw the guy joe behind this site was very pleasant in person as well.

by Ben Golliver on Mar 10, 2010 5:31 PM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't put too much stock in these numbers...

For instance, look at Sergio’s defensive rating. For that matter, look at Andre and Blake. They’re both porous defenders at best, at yet they rank pretty well on here. And compare Joel’s defensive rating to Oden’s. Joel might be a better defender, but there’s no way the difference is that large.

"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave

by DC Blazer on Mar 11, 2010 7:06 AM PST reply actions  

Fast Break Trigger Rate

But the fast break trigger rate stat is very interesting. Roy kills breaks. No surprise there. Same with Oden—he always looks for a hand off to the PG.

"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave

by DC Blazer on Mar 11, 2010 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Oden has the potential to be a great defender

But Joel played much, much better defense the past two seasons. Oden fouled a ton, didn’t really understand help defense, etc. He was starting to play as well as Joel before getting hurt this season, but there was still a difference.

by PoliSam on Mar 11, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions  

It is time weighted still

If I’m understanding it right, they reduced the weight of previous years, but didn’t eliminate it. So I think you are both right. Oden THIS YEAR probably wasn’t quite that far behind Joel, but Joel still was better. Oden is a man-beast that looks huge every time he blocks a shot, but he is still learning the game, while Joel was a fundamentally-sound defensive monster.

In any case, nice find PoliSam on this stat site. They are doing some really interesting stuff.

by sanjait on Mar 11, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The ultimate coverage and analysis of the Portland Trail Blazers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
The Blazers Future Regarding Free Agent Signings
Small
Thunderous Manboobies
Img_0878_1__small
Why do we hate LaMarcus Aldridge?
Small
Oregonlive "journalists" 2 new posts...same old drivel
2474796688_7cdc78828f_o_small
Greg Oden Suffers Life-Ending Injury; Gets 3-Year Extension

Recent FanPosts

Small
The Blazers' Future Regarding Trades
Small
WHAT TO DO WITH NIC BATUM BECAUSE WE WILL LOSE HIM IF NOT TRADED.
Small
Trade that helps us out now and the future
Small
How can the All-Star game be more fun and competitive?
Small
Earl Boykins!
Small
LaMarcus Aldridge about to become the 10th highest scorer in Blazers franchise  history
Small
New trade that gets us a new point and a three point shooter
Small
Portland getting.....
Small
The Sun Behind the Clouds: Blazers still on track.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

It's pretty clear that the season is over already ;)
Double rainbow of sadness:

1) JBay is getting shorter
2) We never got to see him with a mustache

I miss you tiny raptor man.

via The Basketball Jones http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/02/09/things-of-note-for-february-9-2012/#more-34561
Blazers Broadcasters Mike Barrett and Mike Rice re-enacted NBA referee Scott Foster's controversial goaltending call on Portland Trail Blazers forward LaMarcus Aldridge, who was defending Oklahoma City Thunder All-Star forward Kevin Durant, during this week's edition of Blazers Courtside. Remarkably, no one was injured during the taping of this segment.

Original video of the play here. 
Quotes from the players and coaches here. 
The NBA admitting it got the call wrong here. 
Dave's  extended thoughts here. 
BlazersMakr's FanShot: Major Vegas action on OKC prior to tip here. 
Audio of Chad Doing of 750 AM The Game going HAM on Foster here.

OK, that should just about wrap up the goaltending discussion.

Courtside video via Blazers Broadcasting cameraman John Curry.

-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
In 2008 Tim Donaghy indicated that Scott Foster was a ref that also fixed games
Blazers Owner Paul Allen Ranked No. 3 American Philanthropist In 2011

Recent FanShots

"You Must Be Known For Your Defense, Because You Definitely Stole My Heart"
Bill Simmons: Deron Williams To Dallas 'Is A Lock'
LaMarcus Aldridge Needs Support Around Him
LaMarcus Aldridge Finds Out He's An All-Star With His Teammates
Congratulations to Portland Trail Blazers forward LaMarcus Aldridge, on his first All Star selection.

As seen on www.trailblazers.com
AWoj: Aldridge an All Star
CRAZY stat from Houston game
NBA MVP Rankings... LMA @ #10

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Editors

Kitten_small Dave

Headshotsmall_small Ben Golliver

Lead Moderators

Getfuzzy-satchel_small Timmay!

Bucky3_small Cablinasian

Authors

Plainlc_small Storyteller

Moderators

Lamb_small T Darkstar

Small douglast

Terryporter_small prezofdeath

Small usmcr3049

Lrg_magpie_small Corvid

Wallpaper_small geoffm