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Blazersedge Mailbag February 2nd, 2010

Time to catch up with the mailbag again.  Fortunately I don't watch Lost so I had the free hours tonight.  I appreciate all of the questions.  If you have one you can e-mail it to blazersub@yahoo.com, the same address at the bottom of all of my posts.

We start this week with some questions about my self-perception as a fan/blog-writer and continue on through the hot topics of the week.  Where questions have been longer I have taken the liberty of paraphrasing.

Do you consider yourself an expert, a fan, a media personality?  What do you call yourself?  --JT

Answering this properly would entail fairly precise definitions of "expert" and "media".  Rather than delve into that discussion I think I'd term myself a "professional fan".  I'm probably too close to the action and have too much responsibility in reporting/analyzing it to claim being "just" a fan anymore.  Certainly my perceptions have been shaped by the last four years of work.  (See the next question...)  But I'm not that far from my roots and there are tangible differences between what I do and what mainstream journalists, radio folks, and other media members do.  Together we're kind of in a new in-between zone here, made possible by the advent of the internet and this medium.  You could spend months studying and debating that transformation and what it has entailed.  But it appears that the world was ready for a bridge between traditional sources and fans.  That's pretty much the role we fill.

I do think the information and analysis you get here is as good as you'll find anywhere.  If you sift through the whole site and not just the main page posts you'll really get a more complete view of the team than you can find from any other single source by virtue of hundreds of well-studied fans dissecting topics every day.  In that sense if we're not "experts" at least we fill certain functions of experts and can do so with heads held high.  I am always careful to give credence and weight to what the true experts say, though, even when I don't agree with it.  Coaches, basketball management, guys who have played in the league...ignore them or disparage them at your peril.  They may not be right all the time but even their wrong assertions are probably more informed and knowledgeable than our best ones.  If nothing else you can learn from the way these guys think and how they see/interpret the game even if you can't get on board with their conclusions.

If you think of yourself as something other than a fan is there anything you miss about your pure fan days?  What advantages do you have now?  --JT

Personally I'd say that games are far more interesting now but less fun in certain ways.  The complexities of the game and the challenges of understanding and interpreting them have opened up a whole new world.  I loved it the moment I realized it was there and I've never stopped learning since.  At the same time those complexities and the task of interpreting them can become like a millstone.  I enjoy the games and I root hard for the Blazers but I'm seldom free to abandon myself in the moment anymore like I used to.  When part of me wants to get up and scream the other part is looking at the situation dispassionately, wondering where another angle is and how to explain it.  I can analyze the heck out of a ref's wrong call, tell you why it's wrong, tell you why it probably looked right to the ref or made sense in the greater whole, tell you whether and why the players involved are prone to such things, and take a stab at how it's affecting the game as a whole.  But except on the rarest of rare occasions I don't even consider standing up and lobbing a profanity bomb at the ref, or even at the TV, the way I would have 10 years ago.  Sometimes it would be nice to get lost in it like that again.  On the flip side I probably enjoy a great play more than I used to because I understand more about what makes it great and how difficult it really was to do that.  Also I make absolutely zero promises if and when the Blazers make it to the Finals again, let alone win it all.  I suspect in those moments, at least the closing moments of a victory, all of this repressed fan stuff is going to volcano out.  It still does sometimes anyway.  You can see it in game recaps now and again.  But that's a shade of a shadow of what's really there.

Anything fans do that annoy you?  Did you used to do them?  --JT

I try not to get annoyed.  Usually I succeed.  I guess the most annoying thing is when people are just out-and-out stupid, like when they lash out at anyone who disagrees with them instead of trying to broaden their horizons and learn more about the game.  But that has little to do with fandom and everything to do with lifestyles and personalities.

I think some tendencies can keep you from understanding fully how the system works.  I can name a couple for you.

1.  When looking at trades, most folks wait until a guy starts performing poorly and then look to trade him.  Conversely as soon as a guy shows some promise he's an untouchable keeper.  Opposing GM's aren't stupid.  You can't make a trade with nothing and you can't make a trade based on a guy's ideal assessment when you're interested in making that trade precisely because he's not living up to that ideal.  If you're going to make a trade for anyone of value you also have to offer value in return...probably not value that's declining.  In other words, you don't start trade scenarios by asking who you don't want anymore.  You start by asking which valuable players don't automatically belong with your core, what would benefit your team more (talent, position, age, skills, what have you), and who might value your guy while having the perfect spare part to send back.  If you're going to make a successful, significant trade at least 8 times out of 10 you're going to have to part with someone you didn't want to part with.

2.  People tend to hold on to generalities without accounting for specifics that modify those generalities.  For instance when I talked about not being entirely satisfied with Jerryd Bayless taking the last shot against New Orleans a few weeks ago one of the comments I read was that Bayless is good at getting his own shot.  This is true.  In general terms Jerryd was clearly the player most capable of getting off a shot among the five out there at the time.  But Jerryd is also right-hand dominant on the drive, both in dribbling and finishing.  With 3.8 seconds left and needing a score to win the game the Blazers were inbounding on the left hand side of the court.  That meant when Bayless caught the ball and faced the basket his right hand would lie towards the middle of the court, right where the defender would sit on it.  Any kind of forward dribble would be right into the defender's body.  Trying to dribble left towards the near sideline would not bring him towards the basket and would force him to switch the ball back to his right hand at the last second and attempt a shot in that same defender's face, probably while drifting left.  Therefore when he caught the ball his only option was to dribble to the right, horizontally and not towards the basket.  The Hornets had that figured out and sent a second man to shadow him as he moved.  Also it took him at least 2 of the 3.8 seconds just to get to the right side of the court, leaving him no time once he got there to do anything but heave that fade-away.  Unless the Hornets completely fell asleep that shot was all but foreordained the moment Jerryd caught it in that position at that time.  In this case the general truth about him being able to get his own shot didn't matter as much as the specific reality that the shot he was destined to get was going to be a difficult one despite his athleticism...a jumper at the least and probably a covered one.

3.  People tend to overvalue youth and to expect things to happen instantaneously.  I think of a guy like Jerome Kersey, a second-round pick who really got three full years to grow up and find his way in the league.  A few people sensed early on that he could be special.  He certainly had some thrilling moments.  But he spent 228 of his first 238 games coming off the bench, averaging fewer than 16 minutes per game his first two years, playing behind Kiki Vandeweghe, seldom if ever getting a play called for him despite shooting 50% from the field and dazzling with his dunks.  Fans would be up in arms about that today, Kiki or no Kiki in front of him.  But Kersey got the chance to learn what playing in this league meant.  When he did get the full-time call he was ready and he produced night in and night out.  At least in the court of public opinion young players never get that chance today.  They're either God's gift to basketball or a bust after their first sniff of playing time.

I used to do 1 and 2 all the time.  I've never been a big fan of 3.

Click through for questions about Nicolas Batum, finances, players on short-term contracts, playoff prospects, and more.

Star-divide

It's the question on everyone's lips lately.  What's the ceiling for Batum?  Is he the next Pippen?  Would you start him over Martell?  --HN

As far as Batum starting, I'd be surprised if it didn't happen by the game after the All-Star break and it'll probably be sooner.  Remember that Nate is the guy who went with him in the starting lineup to begin with.  Yes it was because of Martell's foot injury but there were other options had Batum stunk.  Nate knows who he is.  Nate helped him develop who he is.  It may not be happening yet because of continuity.  It may not be happening yet because Nate wants more second unit punch or because Batum is more versatile than Webster coming off the bench.  In fact it may simply be Nate knowing that he can get 100% from Batum in a reserve role while still getting production from Martell whereas Martell would wilt if sent to the bench.  In any case, Nic will start again, my guess would be soon.  Don't read much into it not happening instantly.

Mike Rice made the Pippen comparisons last year and more people have come on board with his recent performances.  I have always been high on Nic but he has impressed me even more with his offensive confidence since returning.  Everything we said we wanted to see from him coming out of the summer he's shown...at least for this stretch.  I believe he will continue to produce at a high level and will become one of the most reliable Blazers overall.  It's too early for me to go with the Pippen comparisons yet.  I'm comfortable with him just being Nic.  Scottie hung around 20ppg in his prime.  I'm not sure it's in the cards for Batum to do that.  Scottie also played with a cleverness that set him apart.  We'll see if Nic can pick some of that up.  At the end of the day we're talking about one of the Top 50 NBA players of all time though.  I don't know if we're sure Brandon Roy accomplishes that.  It's too soon to put it on Batum.  I could see a Tayshaun Prince comparison maybe.  In general, though, I'm just enjoying watching the kid without worrying who he's like.  Besides, more important than anything he does individually is how he fits in with the team.  Not all of our youngsters inspire confidence in that area.  I don't think we're ever going to have to worry about Batum being able to play alongside anybody on this roster.  His defense alone makes everybody better.

Everyone talks about the Blazers acquiring another star.  Would they want to pay for one?  The players they have are going to be pretty expensive.  --B

I'm not sure "everyone" is at this point, but your question is apt.  The financial angle is under-considered when you talk about roster-building.  But the flaw in your angle is that some of those expensive future players would be traded away in order to get said star.  And in this case such a move could make financial sense as well as improving play on the court.

For the sake of argument let's say you want to trade for a guy who's making around $13 million now but who will command $18 million per year on his next contract.  That's a major commitment.  But in the Blazers' case it's reasonable to assume that you'll be trading guys who are young and full of potential in order to get this guy.  It may take three of those players to match this star's talent and $13 million salary now.  But what happens on those player's next contracts?  One guy's making $8 million now and he wants $10 because he's young and full of potential.  The other guys are more reasonable.  They just ask for $6 million each, up from $2 million.  Now that other team is shelling out $22 million a year for those three players as opposed to $18 million for the star.  More to the point, the Blazers cut $4 million off of their books by trading them and got a proven commodity in return instead of having to worry about making three potential players work out in order to succeed.

Obviously this situation is hypothetical but it's pretty likely that at some point the Blazers will face this possibility in some permutation or other.  It would have to be the right guy coming in and the right guys going out, but if those criteria are met I don't see them hesitating because of money.  This young, potential-filled lineup is going to cost a mint and a half in a few years if they don't make any moves...and that's probably without all of the players reaching their full potential.

Outlaw, Blake, Przybilla, Miller.  Chances of staying with Portland beyond their current contracts?  --SC

One of the sad things about the injuries this year is that we were supposed to have semi-definitive answers to this kind of question by now.  Everything feels up in the air still.  It depends on what the Blazers learned about the players surrounding these four, which would tell you how well these four would fit in and therefore how potentially valuable they could be to the organization compared to their value on the market.  This is another lesson to learn about the evolving Blazers:  it's not just about individual talent and skills, it's about how well you fit and how much we need what you bring.

I don't believe Blake will stay beyond this year.  I think the organization will always value what he brings and won't ever be sad to have him as part of the team.  But I'm not sure they can guarantee Blake even a strong backup role anymore and there might be another franchise that will.  If Steve gets that offer he has to take it.  If they did think about keeping him my guess is the Blazers will want to bargain basement his contract and again, he's got to look at offers elsewhere if that happens.  The cure for no money is either a championship or lots of playing time.  At this point the Blazers can't promise Blake either.

Travis is a hard call.  At the beginning of the year I thought he was gone but the broken roster and his own injuries have thrown his situation into turmoil.  Are the Blazers frightened enough by what happened this year to want to keep him?  Have his injury and the resulting lack of exposure lowered his value in the minds of other teams?

Travis is going to want money.  He's far enough along in his career that his agent won't let him sign for a penny less than he thinks he's worth, at least without thoroughly examining the market.  This is especially true since Outlaw has already signed one interim contract.  He's also going to want playing time and perhaps a starting role.  As with Blake, the Blazers can't promise him either.  LaMarcus Aldridge is going to be next to impossible to move in the short term even were the Blazers interested in doing so.  Travis is not going to start over, nor take minutes away from, LaMarcus.  Portland has two centers and two capable small forwards right now.  Portland has Jeff Pendergraph and Dante Cunningham to fill spot minutes.  Where does Travis fit? 

In the abstract I think Portland would be fine welcoming Travis back.  When you consider specifics I don't think it's going to work unless his injury keeps him out all year and he gets no good offers elsewhere because of that.  The only two contingencies I can think of are if management loves him immeasurably and will pay any price to retain him or if management has plans for Aldridge down the line.  I guess a third one would be management knowing that Joel Przybilla was going to be out of the picture one way or another, therefore planning to play Aldridge more at center and Outlaw at power forward.  Some will say Travis loves Portland too much to leave but I'm not buying that until I see it.

With Greg Oden's injuries I think the Blazers will make the move to secure Przybilla.  I don't know if Joel opts out of his contract this year or rides it out until it expires.  There are arguments for both.  He might get better offers if he is able to play well next year, especially since knee ligaments are hard to heal from and will cause suspicion until full recovery is proven.  On the other hand there's money available around the league this summer and besides, how much better is his track record going to get?  He's already incredibly well-respected and had been putting up nice numbers before the knee.  He might not get as much opportunity next year.  And if he knows he'll get an offer from Portland anyway, what does he have to lose?   In either case I believe the Blazers will try and keep him.

I have a hard time imagining the Blazers solving their long-term point guard questions this year or next so I believe Miller will stay around at least until next year's trading deadline and probably until the end of his second year here.  If Portland gets a clear starting point guard besides Miller the scenario changes, of course.  I just don't judge that likely.  I don't believe Miller's third year will be picked up.  At that point he'll be 34 going on 35 and $7 million may be expensive relative to their plans for him and his contributions.

Do the Blazers make the playoffs?  Can they win a series?  --W

Yes they make the playoffs.  They don't advance unless they get Oden back, have him in shape and producing, and get a favorable matchup.  The odds of that are tiny.  The odds of them going past the second round are non-existent.  This is the one aspect of the injuries that you can't get over no matter how many gutsy wins you get.  It's a lost season in terms of playoff standards and progress.

What has surprised you most about the season so far?  --LM

1.  How the Blazers still seem to win more than they should.  Seriously, that bench was a Ghost Town for the better part of a month.  Despite the tumbleweeds blowing past the scorer's table the Blazers held firm.

2.  How quickly 50 games have gone.  I guess the roller coaster aspect of the season will do that.

Any Oscar picks?  --RM

Rudy Fernandez for "Ouch! You Hit My Face!", Nate McMillan for "I'm Not Thinking About Starting Batum Yet", and TominHawaii for the Andre Miller series.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

Comment 58 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Always a good read

And I appreciate the points you made about fans’ annoying habits here. Probably I am not alone in thinking that is sometimes me.

"I could almost fall asleep when he's got the ball," Demopoulos said of Roy. "That's how comfortable I feel with him. He always comes through."

by lee3022 on Feb 3, 2010 12:48 AM PST reply actions  

What Tom is forgetting to say is that he has my picture taped to his mirror.

We won’t discuss why I sent him a photo of myself.

Fotenote: It is entirely possible that my picture has been replaced by one of Greg. Tom tends to be a social butterfly.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't ever recall thinking of you and stupid in the same sentence.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions  

You just did

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

There's always a first time.

Or, in your case, the 92nd time.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't underestimate youself, friend

I have thought you were stupid maybe 70-80 times…tops.

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Now you've done it !

REWARDING Tom for his shenanigans. He might have been running out of steam, but NOW….

"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener

by Berkeley on Feb 3, 2010 12:50 AM PST reply actions  

Oh, oh oh, ....

… I have one.

We trade Travis Outlaw and Andre Miller to Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire and then move Amare, Patty Mills, the rights to Ha Seung and 2nd round draft picks in 2010, 12, and 15 and Kevin Pritchard’s favorite 8 track cassette to Toronto for Jarrett Jack. With Chris Bosh thrown in to make salaries match.

I doubt anyone here is capable of coming up with a better trade proposal than this.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Too bad we don’t have Ha’s rights anymore. But maybe they would go for Nedzad Sinanovic? He’s as tall as Sabonis after all, and I often read that every 7+ footer is worth something like $7-10 million per year if he even knows how to catch an orange rubber ball.

by Norsktroll on Feb 3, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Shhh ...

… you don’t have to tell everybody that. Just because Portland doesn’t have Ha’s rights doesn’t mean KP can’t convince another GM that we do.

Besides, I was saving Sinanovic for the deal to land Chris Paul.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 4, 2010 6:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Love these.

A positive attitude will not solve all of your problems but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright

Keep the faith.

by fajunga on Feb 3, 2010 12:58 AM PST reply actions  

Good stuff

I’m hoping Outlaw re-signs with the Blazers. I like the guy, like his work ethic, like his personality on this team. His D improved a lot. There’s actually too much young talent on this team, and I’ve come to realize they can’t all stay here and develop as they deserve to. Most upsetting realization for me this season.

by travis13 on Feb 3, 2010 1:06 AM PST reply actions  

Dave, a tip of the hat for your writing efforts

I wouldn’t be able to take the time to write about them as in-depth as you do as often as you do. Much easier to focus on one or two issues. Excellent article. This blog is the first place I look for all the PTB news. Thanks!

by rockman on Feb 3, 2010 1:42 AM PST reply actions  

Dave I have a question for you!

oops..hit the post button b/4 I asked the ?. I was watching the game against Charlotte on my DVR..went to the game…and in the 2nd qtr with 7:54 left Charlotte missed a basket..the 0 went off on the 24 second time clock..the clock was ALREADY reset to 24 when Jackson (I think it was Jackson) grabbed the offensive rebound and SCORED…Now I am relatively new to following bball closely. I thought that once the basket was MISSED and the 24 second clock had EXPIRED..that anything AFTER this does not count. They scored the basket. PLEASE…anyone who knows the rules…ENLIGHTEN me!!! Thank you!

by Natsthecat on Feb 3, 2010 7:50 AM PST reply actions  

Did it hit hte rim?

Whenever the ball hits the rim on a shot, the shot clock is reset. Therefore the clock should reset the second the ball hits the rim, before it is rebounded. If the ball does not hit the rim on a shot, then the shot clock should NOT be reset. Note that hitting just the backboard does not reset the shot clock.

So, if the ball missed the rim completely then yes that was an error, but if it did hit the rim, that was the correct outcome of the play. Hope this helps.

by AxemanACL on Feb 3, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I had to stop reading and comment when I saw this line ...

 "I guess the most annoying thing is when people are just out-and-out stupid, "

You the man Dave.

Whenever I hear someone talk about being offended by one thing or another, I can’t help ask the question “What about me?” I’m offended by stupid people, but try taking that to HR. I should indicate that stupid to me does not mean lacking in intelligence or education. Rather it is someone who should know better yet still manages to pull off stupid. (I’ve managed it a time or two myself. At least I take some small comfort in knowing I can usually do it better than most.)

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 8:18 AM PST reply actions  

YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS! YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS!

and then one day milo broke through his cage AND HE GOT THIS!

HIGH FIVE!

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Feb 3, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I have to rec this one.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 3, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Batum and Pippen comparisons on offense

Are silly of course.
Defensively, it’s not much of a stretch at all.
I feel the better comparison for Batum on offense is James Worthy.
Run the floor with a smooth glide, hit open jumpers with a slightly slow release, and punish anyone who tries to block that jumper by going around them and finishing at the rim.
The tools are there, the BBIQ is on track, if still in need of polish, and he seems to have the right Quiet Arrogance to deal with big minutes and pressure situations.

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 3, 2010 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

The Worthy comparison has come to my mind as well.

Defense of Pippen + Offense of Worthy = BEST PLAYER EVER!

#52

by CatMan2 on Feb 3, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree that Worthy is a better comparison

but I’d still say comparisons to Pip on D, while probably more reasonable than overall Pippen comparisons are still pretty far out there. Pippen in his prime was arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time and definitely in the top 2 or 3 of all time. Even expanding that to all players, he would probably be in the top 5, which is no easy feat considering all the great big men defenders throughout the years.

I sort of understand the comparisons, but I’m just more in line with Dave’s views. There are a whole lot of players that Nic would have to pass before coming close to Scottie. Jumping straight to the Pippen comparison reminds me of the early 2000’s when every athletic perimeter scorer (Grant Hill, Vince, T-Mac, Kobe) was labeled the next Jordan.

#52

by Royster on Feb 3, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

All Batum needs to do is some upper body working out! Pippen did this after a few years and

it made his play improve. Batum was pretty buff at the start of the season and though still buff..looks a bit smaller as I’m sure he wasn’t able to wht. lift with the shoulder injury! If Pippen is his hero he probably knows this already as he seems to read things/study quite a bit. Also hope Greg takes the cue from Batum on viewing and studying video!!!

by Natsthecat on Feb 3, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Worthy had great post moves

as Jabbar aged, “Big game James” picked up the slack

(man I hated that team)

Worthy was particularly adept at hooking his defender with his off elbow on his spin move and not getting called for the offensive foul. (And taking an extra step as he gathered him self for a dunk on the fast break without being whistled for steps) I associate these “official oversights” to the fact that #42 was playing for a large-market team with gold/purple uniform colors.

My long-time take remains…if Terry Cumming had played for the L*kers and James Worthy had played for the Clippers (etc) Cummings would be Worthy and vice versa, in regards to their NBA legacys

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Who is Terry Cummings?

(jk)

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

but Magic would’ve put TP on the NBA map, if Cummings had enjoyed Worthy’s fate

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You remember Pat Cummings?

And the Drexler trade rumors?

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

no

this Pat Cummings?

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I recall the was a trade rumor about a deal to send Drexler to NY for Pat Cummings (during Clyde's 2nd or 3rd year)

Fans were generally in favor of it. Imagine if that deal had gone down ..urrk

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 4, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions  

yikes

if I heard about it, I repressed it

there was a lot of sentiment that Paxson was the all-star SG and Clyde was the althletic wing without a jumper, back in those days. The Dallas series (Audie Norris) sold me on Drexler as a difference-maker. Buckwalter knew that to beat L*A the Blazers would have to get more althletic, so he rolled over th roster in the late 80s. Guys like Pete Verhouven (Ramsay’s type of system player) were replaced with Jerome Kersey. Soon after, Jack was gone, because the team wasn’t getting out of the first round

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 4, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

difference makers

Rather than a particular player, Nic reminds me of difference makers in the results achieved -

With Rings
Worthy (open court)

Bobby Jones (defense)

Rodman (rebound when you need it, position defense)

Big Shot Bob Horry, that one shot when you need it – coming but not quite yet
 
Bowen to some extent, annoying defense (5 more mins in the CHA game and jackson would have been tossed)

"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks

by DucRider on Feb 3, 2010 4:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

have to LOVE the quiet arrogance...Montey Williams said in an interview that Nic

is humble…so that’s cool…“he’s got this quiet arrogance yet remains humble.” Really do like Batum’s play and personality. Hope he gets dunks on Utah and holds up his fingers with the count afterwards!

by Natsthecat on Feb 3, 2010 9:43 AM PST reply actions  

With Greg Oden’s injuries I think the Blazers will make the move to secure Przybilla. I don’t know if Joel opts out of his contract this year or rides it out until it expires.

I asked this question in a fanpost, but no one is taking it on so I’ll re-ask it, here

What if KP made an agreement with Joel and his agent to deal Przy at the deadline, with the understanding that Joel would opt out of his deal this summer and Portland would make him the MLE FA offer with escalators. Przy would earn a little less next year, but would have job security in Portland for another couple of years.

KP could use Joel’s salary to acquire another big man, without risk of losing the long-term “rights” to Przy. Joel agrees because he wants to stay in Portland, and the Blazers take the risk that he will make a successful recovery from knee surgery and be productive for the next 2-3 years

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 2:05 PM PST reply actions  

That might not be allowed under NBA rules

it could be a good way to clear out some draft picks though

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

we've seen veteran player "return" to their original team following trades before

Antonio McDyess (Detroit) comes to mind

As long as the agreement was tacit with no paper trail, I don’t see how the league office could complain. The rest of the league’s GMs would have the opportunity to offer Przy a better deal on July 1. The Blazers wouldn’t hold Joel’s bird rights so they could be potentially outbid for Joel’s services, but considering his knee injury I fond that to be unlikely

(Here’s the “timeline” I posted in the other thread)

KP deals Joel + Blake + ? for Dalembert on or before Feb 18

Joel opts out of his ETO in late June/July and KP offers Przy the MLE with escalators on 7/1

Why Portland does it: they appreciate JP’s intangibles and think that resigning him for 2-3 years is not too much of a risk, because they’ve been evaluating his medical progress and have been getting encouraging reports. The Blazers have cost-certainty for 2-3 years for a proven backup C to Oden

Why Pryz does it: he likes playing in Portland and would have financial security for the next 3 years

What do Nate/KP do if they have 3 healthy centers in veteran camp next fall? This is a good problem to have, Sam has a 12mil$ expiring contract and KP can use it to acquire another piece to the championship puzzle at some point next season

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

But the McDyess thing is a little different

Denver bought him out …and there is waiting period too. In this case, It would be Przy not exercising an option. I truly don’t know if this is allowed ….I remember the Joe Smith thing in Minnesota, but not the details. Just remember there was an under the table deal and the league dealt harshly with them.

" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous

by 92wastheyear on Feb 3, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

the ball is in Joel's court

the league can’t force Przy to sign with another NBA team if he wanted to resign with Portland in July. It’s his “player option” to terminate his current contract before then, and (if he did) he would become an unrestricted FA in July. Now, if another team make him a huge offer (as unlikely as that sounds, right now) and he still chose Portland’s MLE? Then I could see some eyebrows raised around the league

But whatever the waititng period is (if any) it could easily be “waited out” from February until (potentially) next fall. Obviously, there’s no rush to get Przy back on the court any time sooner

I’d love to hear some of you legal beagles (like storyteller) weigh in on this one

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

It would be illegal

and we would be subject to sanctions if there were any proof of such a deal, just like has technically been the case for Mcdyess, Brent Barry (for Kurt Thomas), and Joe Smith with the Cavs. If you’ll recall, Jerry Stackhouse made some comments before a Jason Kidd deal about how he was set to return to the Mavs after he would be bought out by the Nets. Fear of league sanctions and an investigation then contributed to him not being part of the deal (although Devean George was the biggest driver to the eventual deal).

Obviously as was the case with the buyout guys, these things happen in practice, but it’s a very different situation that would complicate things. First off, all of these guys that have been bought out aren’t generally giving up any money. When McDyess got bought out, he still received close to the full value of his remaining contract, plus, he got another pro-rated vet’s minimum contract to go back to the Pistons. Here, Joel would have to actually give up $7 million in salary next year without any kind of binding guarantee (since it would be illegal) and hope that the Blazers haven’t had a change of heart about it. Maybe Joel’s okay with that, but it certainly invites a lot more scrutiny from the league, along with the fact that we’d be committing a whole lot of salary to a 32 year old center coming off major knee surgery, who possibly couldn’t pass a physical at that point, which screams collusion in itself.

#52

by Royster on Feb 3, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

my point is

there’s nothing the league can do to prevent KP from trading Blake, Outlaw and/or Przy at the deadline, then offering one of them the MLE this summer, as long as the player’s representatives and Portland agrees that the deal is in their mutual interest.

Obviously, Joel’s situation is more dicey than with Steve or Travis, because it involves him choosing to exercise his ETO while he’s in the midst of a serious rehab. That’s extremely unlikely. But if he had a sneaking suspicion that he could exchange that 1 year at 7 mil for a 3 year/22 mil deal on July 1st, he certainly might choose to terminate his contract.

This is what agents are for, to find out what their clients are worth, long term. And some agents get fired for guessing wrong, when the “hoped for” deal falls through. Joel’s rep and KP have “done business” in the past, when it appeared (by most observers) that Przy had “better offers” on the table from contending teams at the time (Spurs, Pistons)

Like Dave wrote above, I suspect Przy and Portland want to keep “traveling together” for the duration of his career, and this hypothetical tacit arrangement is one way he could “help the team” without even stepping onto the court, while in the long run it wouldn’t “cost him” any potential salary

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Right

there’s nothing illegal about them trading them and then trying to sign them back. The only illegal part would be if there was some official agreement between us and the player before a move on a contract “extension” through the MLE.

#52

by Royster on Feb 3, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Good read. TY Dave

Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Feb 3, 2010 3:17 PM PST reply actions  

Sorry, but I had to stop reading

once I reached

I don’t watch Lost

I was so disheartened that I could read no further….

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Feb 3, 2010 4:06 PM PST reply actions  

yes, but the important question is...does Dave follow 24?

care to make a comment on my “Przybilla boomerang” idea? Feasible or cringe-inducing?

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 3, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Possible but not probable

First, with Joel’s injury, I have to believe that he’ll take the guaranteed $7.4 million rather than trying to depend on a ‘gut feeling’ that the Blazers (or someone else) will really give him a 3 year, full MLE deal. After all, if a team is willing to pay him that much guaranteed for 3 years, why not take the $7.4 million and then sign for 2 years at the full MLE? Better security that way.

Secondly, as others pointed out, you can’t even wink at a possible deal without fear of retaliation from the league for circumvention of collective bargaining rules. So I don’t want the Blazers even hinting to any agent that they ‘might’ do something if the player does something themselves. Not worth it.

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Feb 3, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm always surprised when people don't apply WWID to some of their own ideas and suggestions.

As in this Joel scenario. What would I do in his situation? Exactly what you outline.

I don’t even have to pause for a minute to consider such a deal. I take the guaranteed money. If I have a full recovery, then getting another deal after next season is a pretty good bet. If I don’t, I still have $7 million coming to me. If it takes most of next year to round back to form, I’m still likely to find a team, most likely Portland, that will offer me a contract, even if it’s for just 1 year and only a couple million dollars.

There is a reason the phrase a bird in the hand became a cliche.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Feb 4, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions  

The proposed situation actually most reminds me of Carlos Boozer

in reverse, in the sense that Joel would be the Cavs and we would be Boozer. The Cavs were certainly free to not pick up his option to give him a new contract based on a “deal”, but since such a deal would have been illegal according to the CBA, they had no recourse when Boozer turned around and signed a much larger deal with the Jazz (of course, there were CBA issues that prevented them from matching as well). So they missed out on being able to pay a near-all star level guy $700k for a season on the basis of one of these “wink-wink” deals, and were left with nothing other than some complaints about Carlos Boozer betraying their trust.

Same with Joel. Sure, we might indicate that we want him back if he doesn’t pick up his option, but if someone younger and healthier with more upside were to become available at an MLE-level deal or if his rehab isn’t going as well as planned and it looks like he might have to miss a big chunk of next season also, does it really make sense for us to re-sign him? The only other times I can remember teams giving significant chunks of money to guys on the shelf, it hasn’t worked out so well. Gilbert Arenas’s knee hasn’t gotten better, and Grant Hill’s ankle in Orlando never worked out, and yet a 32/33 year old guy coming off major knee surgery is supposed to rely on getting a $20 million contract because of a ‘gut feeling’? Joel’s been a great Blazer, and I hope we can work a way so continues to be one, but that contract offer would be insane in my eyes, especially with player salaries looking to take a nosedive in the new CBA.

#52

by Royster on Feb 4, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess it depends on projecting what a healthy Przy might command in the summer of '11

Best-case scenario for Joel is his knee responds to rehab, he returns next fall and plays his normal game. Depending on Greg’s health he gets 15-20 mpg but shows no ill affects and keeps his per-minute averages around his career numbers

Then, he’s a UFA on July 1, 2011 and is on the market (assuming the Blazers don’t extend him, which they might) For Portland he’s a backup center, for another team, he could play a larger role because they don’t have an Oden. Now, a lot depends on the economy and other FA centers who could be available at the same time (Dalembert, etc) But if “all goes well” it’s reasonable to expect Przy to get a 2 year, 14 mil offer—I’m not saying that both years would be “guaranteed”—that would have to be negotiated

I think at this point, Joel would take that future contract and be glad with it, as long as he’s playing in a good market with unselfish teammates.

Now of course there’s a risk that Joel’s knee doesn’t respond and he’s a shell of his former self. There’s a risk for every NBA player that the next game will be his last. The contract offer could be filled with incentive clauses (games, not minutes played, etc) There are ways for the team to reduce the risk if the player’s future is uncertain

I’m banking on past goodwill between Przy and KP, and a genuine desire from both parties that 2010 will not the last year that Joel plays for Portland. Dave (above) appears to be of this opinion, as well. Call it a hunch. I think that “if” KP traded JP in a week or so that Przy wouldn’t be offended, and the road “back” to a new Blazer contract for #10 wouldn’t be a very difficult one. We’ll see how it goes

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 4, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see why it's so far-fetched

that Batum could score 20. He’s more aggressive at going to the hoop than Aldridge by far, is a better finisher, and seems to have better court awareness. If he got the ball as many times as LA with the green light there’s reason to believe he could match and even exceed LA’s scoring totals.

by jamon51 on Feb 3, 2010 5:07 PM PST reply actions  

I would hope so

On the other hand even in France he never averaged more than 12 points per game. A lack of assertiveness and go-to-guy mentality was one of his main knocks from scouts. His career high in an international game is 24 points, in an U18 match against Spain in 2006.

by Norsktroll on Feb 3, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Some brief research

Nicolas Batum career scoring highs:
NBA 20
FIBA 24 (U18 vs. Spain)
French Pro A 25
Ever 89 (!) in a 150-11 victory as a kid

by Norsktroll on Feb 3, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

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