A question about Roy at UW

by KiksadiMike on Feb 26, 2010 12:48 AM PST

A lot of talk has been going on, for quite sometime and again recently, about the pace of Roy's game.

He needs the ball in his hands, he doesn't like to run, we run too much iso through him without any other offensive schemes... etc.

There has also been talk about how this is connected to Nate, and how much of the lack of running is coming from him, which is usually pointed to when in consideration to our team being pretty well built for running.

Perhaps its a combination of both. The point of this post isn't to debate that one way or the other, at least on my part. Perhaps in the comments.

I figure one way to look at it though, is to look at Roy before Nate, as in his time at UW. Which I know next to nothing about.

But, how did they run things up at UW? Slow paced and iso? More diverse? I figure this could be good to at least consider...

Obviously it'll have short comings, such as his growth as a player, and how much depends on the surrounding pieces and the differences between NCAA and NBA ball, but it seems like it might at least give us some more information to consider.

Again, I know next to nothing about this, so I suppose this is more of a question for others to look into that are familiar with it more than I.

Perhaps its a useless question, but its something that popped into my head and I figured I'd throw it out there and let others consider it, if its worthwhile.

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they were one of the best uptempo teams in the ncaa

roy either started the breaks with boards/long passes, or ran the wings with bobby jones. but, during crunch time the ball was in broy’s hands and the team played at his methodical pace. he does play at a slower pace in the nba, though. i wish nate would emulate that. go fast and hard early, and then play slow ball only if needed late in the game (this doesn’t mean early in the fourth quarter with a decent lead).

by CleBlazer on Feb 26, 2010 12:59 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

I remember the NCAA tourney

they were a fast but controlled team….of course what seems fast in the college game is completely different than NBA.ball…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions

Yup I saw Roy play in person several times while at OSU

UW was run and gun for the most part, so he can do it. I too wish Nate would open up the floor more and run a bit, let them play looser then pull them in when really neeeded.

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 26, 2010 1:55 AM PST reply actions

UW led the nation in scoring during roy's years...and just under romar in general.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Feb 26, 2010 6:18 AM PST reply actions

What were Nate's Seattle teams like?

I thought they were all running teams too?

by In Walks Rudy on Feb 26, 2010 7:34 AM PST reply actions

here are some vids

he and will conroy (sign him)

against a current laker

a nice plass by roy

Awesomeness (ô'səm-nes)
1. n. Something that inspires awe
2. n. Nicolas Batum

by thomasikehara on Feb 26, 2010 7:49 AM PST reply actions

That plass was sweet

Nice to see Roy having a good time.

by jiminut on Feb 26, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions

I wonder sometimes if Roy slows down to protect his talus bone problem.

Maybe HARD running and jumping eventually aggravate his problem. Could be hot air, but I wonder sometimes. He had more of a problem early in his career with the Blazers. Now not so much.

Blazer Pride.

by loyal_blazer on Feb 26, 2010 8:23 AM PST reply actions

why do people want to run?

I want to win. Those things do not always go hand in hand.

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Feb 26, 2010 9:51 AM PST reply actions

running in entertaining

i think this is the crux of the angst. one team wins a championship every year, but any team and run and gun and be fun to watch. look at Don Nelson’s Warriors. they don’t win much but fill up the arena and get lots of national pub because of the “wow” factor of lots of fast breaks and 3-pt shots. i agree with you that running does not equal winning. maybe they are even anti-correlated. but who wants to watch 82-75 victories night after night?

by 55wins on Feb 26, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Anti-correlated?

Statements like this make me waste time at work. I checked the ringbearers for the last 25 seasons. Here they are in terms of where their points per game ranked in the league. It clearly shows defense wins more often than offense but not always and there is no clear correlation either way.

The worst defense in this example would be a team I will not name, in a season I will not name, but they had the 3rd best offense (points-wise) and 23rd best defense. The previous season, the same exact team won with an equal #6 on both sides of the court. On the flip side you got your Pistons of 2004 with the 24th best offense and 2nd best defense.

Season Champion Team PPG OPPG
1996-97 Chicago Bulls 1 6
1995-96 Chicago Bulls 1 3
1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers 2 12
1984-85 Los Angeles Lakers 2 14
2008-09 Los Angeles Lakers 3 13
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers 3 10
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers 3 23
1991-92 Chicago Bulls 5 3
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers 5 11
2005-06 Miami Heat 6 14
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers 6 6
1990-91 Chicago Bulls 7 4
1994-95 Houston Rockets 8 14
1985-86 Boston Celtics 8 3
1997-98 Chicago Bulls 9 3
2007-08 Boston Celtics 11 2
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs 12 3
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs 13 3
1993-94 Houston Rockets 13 5
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs 14 1
1992-93 Chicago Bulls 15 2
1988-89 Detroit Pistons 16 2
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs 18 1
1989-90 Detroit Pistons 19 1
2003-04 Detroit Pistons 24 2

Average 8.96 6.44
Median 8 3

by jiminut on Feb 26, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions

I agree 100%. Isn't at the end of the day ENTERTAINMENT?

Have some fun, win/lose some games, try for a championship with high-octaine offense, be competive in playoffs etc.

The inflated numbers are juicy too, I love it! lol Look at NYK for example, lost 8 straight so far just throwing up shot after shot.

I’ve said it before, but my two favorite teams are slow, not so much for Blazers, but my GOD OSU is PAINFULL to watch. The college game is already slower paced and less stats to go around( "I play 12min a game and average 1.8 points!!!! woot!) but man oh man….we couldn’t find a guy who runs uptempo??

Contrast this further with the football/basketball teams of OSU vs UO. UO is flashy spread offense and uptempo B-Ball…OSU has vanilla balanced attack with the pigskin and the abysmally slow round ball offense.

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 27, 2010 3:12 AM PST up reply actions

I like the idea of running for 3/4 of the game... then when it counts starts going to Roy

although thats kind of what we do right now.

by In Walks Rudy on Feb 26, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

that toronto game was a much better mix

particularly in the 4th…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions

Right

but the numbers tend to show the later in the clock the shot the less likely it is to go in…at least for the Utah game last week.

I remember the formula that one of the players said Nate likes to use is, if you get a good shot in the first 6 seconds of the clock, take it, if not hold till the last 6.

In the Utah game the average time used on the shot clock in the for the game was 12.5 seconds for made shots versus 15.5 seconds for missed, in the 4th qtr for made shots was 11 seconds, the average for misses were 18 seconds.

the Blazers had 24 possessions that ran 20 seconds or more into the clock, they only scored 3 times on those possessions.

the numbers support the notion that the crisper the tempo the better our team shoots, that is a winning formula

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions

the clock the shot?

wow, i simply meant shot clock there???

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions

my eyes!

Heartbroken..... Our goats have escaped.

by Starvin' Marvin on Feb 26, 2010 10:28 AM PST reply actions

Romar has been interviewed in th past

and he said that he always encouraged Brandon to pick up the pace, but Roy was generally receptive to the idea

and #7 seems to be doing OK in the NBA playing at his “deliberate” pace

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 11:19 AM PST reply actions

typo

for some reason the reply button is not working in this thread? The above sentence should’ve read

Roy was generally not receptive to the idea

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 11:20 AM PST reply actions

For clearification

I’m not necessarily saying one way or the other that we should run or not.
It’s merely a question I thought of in relation to other people consistently wanting to run.
Maybe we should, maybe we shouldn’t.
I think a little of both is needed, personally.
Sometimes our offense works fine, other times it seems like it needs a little more…
I’m just trying to figure out the reluctance and distinguish between what Nate wants and what Roy wants.

If I remember correctly someone wrote an article about the Blazers playing San Antonio last year, where they really let themselves fly. With great results. They commented on how scary that makes the Blazers, being able to be efficient and deliberate, but also running when needed.

Maybe we do that enough still, maybe not.
I don’t have a way of watching the games most of the time, but I follow the stats a lot.
A lot is missed by relying on that.

by KiksadiMike on Feb 26, 2010 2:47 PM PST reply actions

When

he was handed the reins in 05-06 he played much like he does now. Appleby was like his Blake, Jamal Williams playing a LA type of role. In the previous years he didnt run the show and there was a lot talent/athleticism they had to run in order to take advantage of it and keep everyone happy. People had to make sacrifices Roy included.

by BBG on Feb 27, 2010 2:18 AM PST reply actions

This team was built to run!

From Miller, Rudy, Bayless, Batum, Outlaw, Webster, LMA, to Dante. Only Roy and Blake are more suited to a slower tempo. Face it, Nate wants to have more control over the team so he has them play slow and tight. He lacks creativity offensively so he can only come up with Roy ISOs.

by VinnyB on Feb 27, 2010 5:03 AM PST reply actions