Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Roy=Starting Point Guard?

Pretty simple question posted here and there before, as I recall off the cuff he had similar duties back in Washington, and now  in the NBA ball dominates and has most of the offense run through him it just makes logical sense.

I keep trying to play Miller/Roy etc in my NBA 2K9 game for instance, but it just works so much better in that virtual world with Roy at PG, Rudy/Webster at 2, Batum 3 etc. Andre or another random PG type off bench to spell Roy. This way provides Rudy the playing time he deserves and wants, and can spot up for 3s and other running around like he does well. And Andre gets to be the main ball handler when he comes in off bench playing without Brandon, which would be nearly seamless as Miller is just like Roy without the athletism and outside shot, namley the lack of three pointer.

Is Roy too slow to keep pace with opposing PGs? Who do you slide around to guard them then? Does Batum guard quick starting PGs and Brandon shifts to slower SG/SF types?

Conversly with his size. strength and overall quickness, couldn't he dominate matchups with some PGs assuming the coache's don't switch around? What would that do to the switching though with an overall tall starting line-up with no one under 6'6''?

Bringing the ball up the court have to be relegated to JUST the PG position? Can't our SF/SG bring it up to spell Roy the extra miles running up and down?

Is there a particular game or stretch of the season where we ever actually tried this line-up?




Comment 42 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

there have been many times with a roy, rudy, webster/batum lineup

provides mixed results.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Feb 25, 2010 11:30 PM PST reply actions  

Roy is not too slow to keep up with PG's...

he could simply use his strength to keep them from driving past easily. But he has made it pretty clear he doesn’t want to be the PG. And we don’t want our star player playing unhappy, cause things wouldnt go as smoothly. And its easier in NBA 2K9 cause Roy can just drive the length of the court and score pretty easily. Before I got 2K10, I had 2K9, and had Roy, Aldridge, Oden, LeBron, Carmelo and Rudy Gay on my team. I often made Roy or LeBron the PG and just ran down the court for a dunk or easy pass to Greg, (cause he runs down the middle of the lane on virtually every possession in that game, so its easy). But as far as running the team in real life, Roy would be much better suited continuing to let Dr. Dre and Bayless bring the ball up. Or Devin Harris next season…….one can hope.

by 64-18 on Feb 26, 2010 12:32 AM PST reply actions  

heh I remember when we were thinking D.Harris.

It’s too bad we have a non-PG in Bayless and an old timer like Miller, neither really fit long term in my mind, which runs counter tothe rest of the team and its growing together.

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 26, 2010 12:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Miller has proven Roy could be the Blazers point guard

Everyone knows that Roy doesn’t want to be the point guard so this argument is kind of pointless, yet it gives me an opportunity to bash Miller, so I’m game.

The knock on Roy playing point guard was that he would tire out bringing the ball up court and he couldn’t guard quick opposing point guards. Miller is hands down the laziest Blazer and probably the most out of shape, yet he manages to bring the ball up court most the game without tiring and my 10 lb dog could do a better job guarding quick point guards than Miller can. Even with Miller guarding the other team’s point guards, the Blazers have a 34-26 record. You have to think that replacing Miller with Roy at point guard, that the Blazers would have at least four more wins.

I guess I just proved that the Blazers are winning despite Miller, even though that wasn’t my point. I don’t think the Blazers would have a 34-26 record if Blake, Sergio, or Bayless were starting. It would probably be a worse record because Miller is slightly better than those three guys. None the less, the fact that an out of shape and lazy Miller can bring the ball up the court an entire game without tiring and providing adequate defense proves that Roy could do it too.

I am hands down the greatest Blazers fan on Blazersedge.

by tominhawaii on Feb 26, 2010 2:42 AM PST reply actions  

Miller did drop 52 points on crazy effective shooting, 1 three! lol

 Against NJ he almost had a triple double too, 18/7/10.

Guy still has some game left.

Does it really matter all that much to Roy if he’s just “penciled” in as PG for mainly offensive purposes?

What about that troubles him I wonder? The guy is a great passer and offensive facilitator, and he can choose to drive/dish/shoot more often handling the ball all the time…what is the issue?

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 26, 2010 2:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't

I do remember him saying he’d rather not play point guard, but then followed up the “he can’t guard PG’s” argument with “well they can’t guard me”.

I am hands down the greatest Blazers fan on Blazersedge.

by tominhawaii on Feb 26, 2010 2:57 AM PST up reply actions  

For one he would post-up and physically dominate all but what...?

Derrick Rose might give him trouble strength wise?

Would have to create some mismatches on the floor and make the OTHER team play a bit wonkier rotation than usuall facing a ROY at the 1.

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 26, 2010 3:09 AM PST up reply actions  

This whole thing is obvious

Bayless is going to be the “PG”, which means he’ll defend opposing PGs and bring the ball up the court, and occasionally run the offense. But offensively, Brandon is the PG most of the time, with Bayless playing offensively as the SG.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Feb 26, 2010 4:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I love Bayless

Always loved his attitude, quickness and unique talents. Having said that I am having doubts at this point. Its not due to his inconsistency which is too be expected out of a second year player but rather that his fit with Brandon doesn’t seem so obvious to me.

I agree that in theory when Jerryd and Brandon are playing together that Bayless is the off-guard offensively and the point on D while Brandon is the opposite. The problem that remains however is that Bayless is not an ideal off-guard for Brandon to play with. There is a lot of duplication in their skillsets and the one key skill someone playing off Brandon should have IMO is shooting, which Jerryd still lacks. I’m sure this could improve but at this point with a decent sample size and the somewhat awkward stoke Jerryd has I don’t see him being a consistant or high percentage shooter from long distance. I wish Bayless fit here long term but I just don’t see it outside of him accepting an ‘energy/instant offense’ type role, which is unlikely.

This doesn’t really address your point jscot but I also don’t see Brandon as a point guard in any situation. He is a playmaker but the large majority of his assists are created based on defenses collapsing on him and his ability to find the open man. As a passer in half-court sets I think Brandon would be found lacking and relying on him having the ball in his hands even more could encourage more of the Roy-centric offense that has become so predictable. A point guard who is able to share the playmaking duties with Brandon, perhaps with strengths that compliment his rather than duplicating them, while also being able to hit from distance and play good D would be ideal. There aren’t many that fit that description but its not like we need all world level skills in those areas, just servicable and dependable production.

The way I would like to have seen us address this weakness was in the previous draft, instead of through free agency. The signing of Andre Miller was predicated on the idea that the Blazers should be an elite team who were at least a dark horse pick to get to the finals. I would much rather have drafted a rookie pg that fit our needs and given them a chance to develop even if it mean’t us being a 50-55 win team rather than pushing 60 (if healthy obviously). The source of my frustration is that there were plenty than filled at least 2 of the playmaking/3pt shooting/defense requirements.

Rodrigue Beaubois was in my draft day wishlist signature along with the now infamous DeJuan Blair and was someone I thought we had a genuine chance of drafting. He had work out here before the previous draft and seemed like a pg version of Nic Batum to me – athletic, defensively minded with a body designed to play basketball. His shot and playmaking skills were a work in progress but there was clear potential for him to become more than servicable in both of these areas. A potential 3/3 guy and Blazer PGOTF in my mind.

Darren Collison worked out here and I believe would have been selected with our first round pick if he hadn’t been taken before us. Sure we could likely have moved up to get him but I like to think the Blazers thought they could get him at 25 and were surprised he was taken before then. He is an incredible defender for someone his size and is an impressive passer so early in his career. He is not a sharpshooter but is decent in this area – certainly an improvement on Bayless.

The other pg the Blazers were reportedly interested in was Steph Curry. I wasn’t sure how his game would translate to the NBA but he undoubtedly knew how to shoot the 3 and had impressive court vision. An option that looks particularly appealing in light of his recent play and despite his deficiencies defensively.

I will be accused of revisionist history I am sure, as all the potential pgs I have chosen are playing well and have reasonably large roles for rookies. However each was a viable option in a draft awash with talent and the point. Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Terrence Williams, Sergio Llull and Nick Calathes would all have been options worth considering but instead we drafted a foreign SF while we had 2.5 already on the roster and two PFs (a legitimate position of need but no more legitimate than the point).

I know looking back at what ifs in terms of drafting is a tired thing to do but I truly feel that coming away from that draft with not one pg prospect (Patty Mills doesn’t count until he proves he belongs in the NBA) was a mistake despite the relative success of our 2nd round picks. That Beaubois could have been had at 25 still annoys me everytime I see him play – our long-limbed french defensive attack could have more than made up for the sometimes apathetic nature of our no.1 and 2 offensive guys on D……

by MadBlaze on Feb 26, 2010 5:22 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No doubt we'd have taken Collison if available

Or Lawson. And we did trade up a little bit.

We used our pick to bank an asset for the future because we didn’t see PT on the current roster for anyone available, for at least 2-3 years. At least, I presume that was the thinking. If it hadn’t been for the injuries, that would have been accurate.

If the only concern you have is Jerryd’s shot, have no fear. He’s an all-star compared to last year. He’s already making progress. He’ll shoot thousands upon thousands of 3 pointers this summer. That is the main thing that kept Steve Blake in the rotation — think Jerryd won’t have noticed? It is the primary way he can differentiate himself from Andre and take at least some of his PT — think he won’t have noticed that, too?

I’m not persuaded that anyone available in last year’s draft by the time we picked is remotely as good a prospect as Jerryd. Remember, he is still very young — younger than Lawson and Collison.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Feb 26, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, jscot

I still think concerns about Jerryd’s shot are justified. For all of the early promise he showed this year, he’s still shooting 28% from three and 38% on twos outside of 10 feet for the season. Admittedly this is better than last year, but still pretty atrocious in the grand scheme of the league (Andre Miller is shooting worse from three and roughly the same on long twos).

It was essentially impossible for him to be a worse shooter than his rookie year, so going from horrible to simply bad shouldn’t completely allay fears, I think. Until his 3-pt % climbs significantly above Rajon Rondo’s career numbers, writing off concerns about his shooting is a little premature. It’s hardly a death sentence for his future Blazer prospects (I was a big proponent of bringing Miller here, after all), but it’s a weakness until he proves otherwise over more than a couple weeks.

#52

by Royster on Feb 26, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

3p% aside, you gotta admit he drives like a Mazerati

If he only had a quarter of Kidd’s court vision I’d bother making a comparison.

by jiminut on Feb 26, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, Jerryd definitely does some things well

extremely well at times, but no one would ever say “don’t be concerned about Jason Kidd’s shooting” in Kidd’s prime, and the only year that Kidd shot from deep worse than Jerryd has this year was his rookie season.

Like has been said, though, he’s a young guy and there’s plenty of time to improve. And even if he doesn’t improve his shooting from his current state he can still be a valuable and productive NBA player, but there has to be a lot more improvement to take shooting out of the “weakness” column.

#52

by Royster on Feb 26, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

he needs

to not fade on his jumper. he is almost always wide open when he does this.

by Sound_Automatic on Feb 26, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

The way I would like to have seen us address this weakness was in the previous draft, instead of through free agency.

Given the Blazers track record of developing young PGs for the last 20+ years, I would argue against this premise. Acquiring a veteran PG who has previous NBA experience is a better choice, even if it “costs” KP several young talented players (who play other positions) in the deal

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Sign Nate Robinson to the MLE

Long tern, Nate the Great would be the starter (he can pass and shoot the 3) alongside his college buddy Roy, and Bayless would be a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford-esque combo guard off the bench. He needs to add a long range shot, but I think he could do it. Of course, that means figuring out what to do about Rudy….

by HailOden! on Feb 26, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Bayless vs. his peers

i don’t understand the hope for Bayless as the long term solution for PG. it is obvious he is not in the elite category of Rondo, Nash, Paul, Williams and nearly as obvious he is not the same group with the younger PGs like Westbook, Lawson, Evans and Brooks. do we really think Bayless is the PG on the championship Blazers?

by 55wins on Feb 26, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Frankly, I agree

You said it. The only way it makes sense to me is if first he can step up on man defense. I’ve heard he’s a good defender but I think he’d be first team NBA defense to even start the conversation. If he can just shut down the lane for the likes of Paul and Brooks, then I’d think he earned his stay.

Even then, we’d still have to customize our offense to suit his strengths and weaknesses. After all the talk about both Roy and Dre needing the Paul, I think it’s obvious that Bayless is even more of an issue.

by jiminut on Feb 26, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

it was a TV interview

and who wants to put a guy who is recovering from a bad hammy on quick PGs?

Sure, Batum could defend PGs, but not all game. So at some point Nate will need another defensive PG and that should never be Brandon

this Roy = PG argument is a non-starter, but I’m sure there will be fanposts about it every other month for the duration of his career

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Why would we want our best player

playing out of position?

Also, no offense, but I immediately disregard any idea if it’s reasoning is that it worked in a video game.

by GMan83201 on Feb 26, 2010 6:59 AM PST reply actions  

he is not to slow,

but we want him to be able to have a lot of energy in the 4th quarter, that is why he just sort of stands around when the team is doing stuff, he is preserving his energy

Batum doesn't use email,
he uses his mind to transmit his thoughts to other people. that is how he intimidates his opponents without ever talking to them

by rolo_poloo on Feb 26, 2010 7:15 AM PST reply actions  

Roy will "take breaks" on defense as well

and this is not a good idea if your “man” is the other team’s PG or leading wing scorer

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

The main problem with this is B

Coach Mac plays it by the numbers. He’s not going to step outside his comfort zone and everyone knows you don’t play a 6’-7" dude at point. It’s been in the book since George Mikan. Any evidence to the contrary is an anomaly instituted by wierdo hippies.

Personally, I’m not sure this would even work, but I have a lot of other goofy ideas. In my world, changing things up keeps things interesting and fun for the players, it screws with your opponents playbooks and minds, and it freakin wins championships. Granted, if G.O. and Brandon can stay on their feet, and LMA (my favorite Blazer) stops sucking his thumb, this all becomes academic.. we could play it straight by the book with one hand tied behind our back and the ring will come to us by sheer gravity.

In the meantime, shake things up. You don’t need to throw out the whole system, just give it a nice tweak.

by jiminut on Feb 26, 2010 8:23 AM PST reply actions  

everyone knows you don’t play a 6’-7" dude at point.

This is ironic because Nate played PG and both he and Brandon are the same height

and Magic Johnson was 6’9 and regarded as one of the best PGs in NBA history

And since Scottie Pippen, the “point forward” position has been al alternative to the traditional PG, depending on the team’s offensive system (triange, etc)

So, maybe you should listen to those “weirdo hippies” more often?

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Outliers. outliers.

Magic Johnson = generational talent

Nate = not the star of his team

Scottie = shared duties with 2 others in a system that doesn’t require a point guard

by Sound_Automatic on Feb 26, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

hand-checking rules

this is the best reason why you wouldn’t choose to play taller guys at PG anymore, waterbugs who can penetrate have a built-in advantage

but that isn’t stopping the Kings from handing the ball to…Tyreke Evans

(there are always “exceptions” to the rule…and sometimes if you can find those special players it gives your team an advantage at the other end of the floor)

Batum can defend PGs better than any current Blazer. Nic is also 20 years old and has superior court vision, feel for the game and ball-handling skills for a player his age and height

does that make him a potential PG? Maybe not in the traditional definition of the position, but a starting lineup of Roy and Batum might have enough ball-handling skills to incorporate a non-traditional PG like Rudy or Bayless. (Or even a player like Andre Iguodala…) The real question is: could Nate and Dean put up with the inevitable turnovers? (I’m guessing the answer is “no”) So, I expect we’ll continue to see veteran PGs with superior A/TO ratios (like Miller or Blake) starting at PG, and “combo” guards like Rudy or Jerryd continue to come off the bench in the future

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 26, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Recced true true one reason why wing scorers are blowing up more and more.

The inside giant post man has faded away a bit as a result of teams focusing on wing players being the focus offensivley, there are more of them as well, and big men nowadays are a mix of inside/out(Bosh, LMA, Stouadamire etc etc) so you won’t see many Ewings anymore.

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 27, 2010 2:55 AM PST up reply actions  

big men nowadays are a mix of inside/out…so you won’t see many Ewings anymore.

This is true, but like I wrote above

(there are always "exceptions" to the rule…and sometimes if you can find those special players it gives your team an advantage at the other end of the floor)

The reason Oden is so valuable is that if he can stay healthy he has chance to be a dominant low post scorer. And since so many teams are playing PFs out of position at the 5 nowadays, Greg could own this league if his coach and teammates can figue out a way to keep feeding him the ball close to the basket. He’s a good FT shooter and a willing passer, and his offensive efficiency was great, during the first few months of this year

KP needs to build a roster around Greg and Brandon. That means good outside shooters and post entry passers. On paper, Rudy and Batum should fit very well, as long as they’re willing to be complimentary players and keep “doing a Portland”

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 27, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I have always had a mancrush on freakishly tall PGs....*sigh

I guess Lebron is Magic 2.0 basically?

OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!

by TyboOSU on Feb 27, 2010 2:58 AM PST up reply actions  

OK, what about Batum

What would the team look like if he played point?

by rburg on Feb 26, 2010 8:38 AM PST reply actions  

not

Neither Batum or Roy have good enough handles to play PG consistently. Situationally yes, but not on every possession. The turnovers would be ridiculous.

by 55wins on Feb 26, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

the Nic man-crush has obviously crossed into the insane. Since when is Batum a passer/creator with court vision? I mean, what you want is more Nash/Kidd/Paul and less Tayshaun Prince.

by Billy Hoyle on Feb 26, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Nic is 20

when Scottie was 20 years old he was a virtual unknown at Central Arkansas

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Feb 27, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

It can be used situationally, like our classic no-pick 1 on 5 iso. We need to leave Broy as fresh as possible for when he needs to be the hero and I think that’s going to be pretty often for the rest of this season. Point guards have to work more than 2s (that is, they run farther).

by Sound_Automatic on Feb 26, 2010 11:01 AM PST reply actions  

Eddy Curry could play PG in NBA 2k9

The game was too offensive. Bad passes and fumbled handles were almost non-existent. In real life Roy should play some more PG if only to get Webster involved and to bang against the smaller guards. Roy had a nice game guarding Gilbert Arenas two years ago so I think he can play 5-10 minns at PG. Its worth nothing that Bayless was the only one that could check Rose. His defense is decent.

by Kaanyr Vhok on Feb 27, 2010 12:13 AM PST reply actions  

I liked Byron Scott

When he played with Magic. Had the quickness and energy to defend the pg but the stroke to hit it from the outside and attack the rim when it was open. 6’3" like bayless and strong like JB. But he was a shooter. He wanted to float to the corner and wait fo rthe pass from Magic.Could not really create for others but they were a well coached team and new what they were doing so they could get by when magic did not have the ball.

I like Roy and Rudy in the back court but Dre has taken over the team with his aggressive play and willingness to “do something” since no one else on the team (other than Roy) has the nads to step up consistently.

by LicketyBrindleDowntheMiddle on Mar 1, 2010 11:27 AM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The ultimate coverage and analysis of the Portland Trail Blazers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
A Junkless Proposition - Five-Two-Six-Two-Aught-onetwo.
Small
Consensus Mock Draft
Photo_3__small
JD 5/22
Bns_small
You're The GM. Whats your move?
Small
Hard to be a fan of a team that is so poorly managed.

Recent FanPosts

Small
My dream is the Blazers signing Jeremy Lin
Small
Would you do this trade? Lowry, Okafor, #4?
Small
Keep an Eye on Great Britain
Small
two options with $20 mill cap space, the #6 pick and some luck
Batum_small
Alternate 2012 Olympics Team
Small
Collective mock draft
Small
GM Poll: K Love or L Train
Small
Off season ideas

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Assistant Michael Malone interested in the Blazers
The LeBron James Conundrum: A Legacy In Question
Shooting percentages as they apply to certain areas of the court.  Note who one of the best shooters in the NBA from the wing is.  Check out the guy dominating under the hoop as well.  Pretty impressive for a 6'9'' guy.
Fernandez: Joel Freeland Faces July 10 Deadline For Contract Buyout
Church of Basketball: An Interview With Dave

Recent FanShots

Perry Jones III story
Jalen Rose on D'Antoni
Isiah Thomas hoping for return
Ferry in mix for vacant Portland GM job
Where's The GM?
Orlando Magic has decided to trade Dwight Howard
If the Sixers are eliminated by the Boston Celtics in Game 7, the general...
Interesting Quotation from Chad Ford RE: Morway and Rebuilding
Malone is a winner...
Lamarcus aldridge first nba game

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Editors

Kitten_small Dave

Headshotsmall_small Ben Golliver

Lead Moderators

Getfuzzy-satchel_small Timmay!

Bucky3_small Cablinasian

Authors

Plainlc_small Storyteller

Moderators

Lamb_small T Darkstar

Small douglast

Terryporter_small prezofdeath

Small usmcr3049

Lrg_magpie_small Corvid

Wallpaper_small geoffm