Update: -21 against Utah. It Is Time To Sit Brandon Roy
UPDATE:
Portland went from a 25 point lead to an overtime loss with Brandon Roy. Yes, people will say he scored 23 points. Yes, he scored our first bucket of Overtime. Still -- right now -- the team is doing worse with him playing in the game. We were flying on all cylinders tonight after Brandon sat with 2 fouls in the fourth first quarter. After he came in, the lead slipped and slipped and slipped until it was gone.
Perhaps he can score by getting to the freethrow line, but this is not helping the team play better as a team. He is hindering the team's ability to play free and easy offense. I love him to death, but it's tough to watch this team struggle due to his play. When Brandon is well, he will take over the fourth quarter -- now he stifles the offense because he is getting the ball as though he was uninjured.
It seems obvious to me that the rest of the team needs to man up by playing -- and Brandon needs to man up by sitting down. While it's obvious to me, I'm not basketball genius. Is it obvious to anyone else?
PREVIOUS:
After watching him in the Boston game it must be painfully (no pun intended) obvious that Brandon Roy is nowhere near ready to play. While he is a big part of this team, what is the motivation of the team to NOT rest him?
Was the goal of trading Blake and Outlaw specifically to try to make the playoffs, or to try to advance in the playoffs. Is the rationale behind Brandon's playtime the desire to make the money off tickets and concessions in that first series, or to get this team to make strides in the playoffs.
In tonight's Celtics game we were utterly unprepared for top tier competition. It was similar against Oklahoma City and the L*kers. Brandon is hobbled, and he is extremely ineffective. If we are going to be getting 9 points/4 boards/1 assist in 34:20, it is time to rest Brandon and get those numbers from anyone of our other resources.
Without Brandon Roy this team hovered at around .500 ball during the regular season, and perhaps its time for Brandon to man up in a way he's not accustomed to -- show that you have faith in your teammates to allow you to rest and heal, and still end up in the playoffs.
The time to reevaluate is done. If you're going to play nominally with pain and an injury that will not heal without rest, you need to be given a long,long time to rest, let someone else play at least nominally without pain, and hopefully you'll be healthy at the end of the season.
Each day that this farce goes on, the higher the likelyhood of a more serious injury, and the less likely that Bandon is healthy by the playoffs. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it's time to bit the bullet and sit Brandon -- no ands ifs or buts -- for at least 5 weeks, probably longer. No shootarounds, no practices, just rest.
The fate of the regular season rests squarely on the shoulders of the rest of the team since Brandon cannot physically perform, anyway.
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no
Batum doesn't use email,
he uses his mind to transmit his thoughts to other people. that is how he intimidates his opponents without ever talking to them
yes
rest him for another week or so
Awesomeness (ô'səm-nes)
1. n. Something that inspires awe
2. n. Nicolas Batum
He should NOT play untill he isn't scared of
making the injury worse. The only way to do that is to rest and allow the hamstring to heal itself. Players are going to have to be able to defend if they want to play and Roy just can’t right now. I don’t care so much about his offense, as I ‘m sure that in time he will be able to adapt to his limitations and find a way to produce points, as I am about his inability to stay in front of his man. If Brandon can’t jump or sprint then what is he doing on the court anyway. Whats the point in risking further injury if he gets real hurt and misses the Playoffs?
I wonder if anyone in the Blazers medical department has ever heard of a physiotherapist in Serbia called Mariana Kovacevic. She has a miracle cure for hamstring injuries and am pretty sure that she could help Roy. She has been working for seven years with top-class sportsmen,it is a placenta cream applied with a (massage) machine that creates waves of pressure. This cure is mainly used by footballers(soccer players) and proven to cure them over 50% quicker then rest. Pritchard and Allen need to send Roy over to Serbia right away so he’d be ready to play by next month cause right now he looks like a 50 year old man trying to recapture the glory days.
If Brandon can’t jump or sprint then what is he doing on the court anyway.
He’s the new Blake as far as killing off fast breaks is concerned. – Elgin
GOP in HD
by 22baylor on Feb 22, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dont be a Grant Hill
Not a dig at hill but saying he felt pressured to play with an injury which made that injury much more severe… Roy is doing that right now… He knows its not right, he knows their is a significant risk of making it much worse…. He shouldnt be playing
"At 49, I can say something I never would have said when I was a player, that I'm a better person because of my failures and disgraces." -- Bill Walton
by MischiefPortland on Feb 20, 2010 4:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder, though
if some important decision-maker in the chain of command is irrationally pushing Brandon to play for some reason. Whether it’s Brandon, Nate, Jensen or Allen we’ll probably never know, but there’s clearly something off about this when what seems completely obvious to EVERYONE watching the game is not reflected in the team’s decision-making.
it's obviously the fans.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Feb 20, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
I love me some BRoy, but last night he was a liability.
No defense, very little offense and he looked like he was in pain. Either he needs to toughen up if he really thinks he can play with this, or he needs to sit if it’s hurting that bad. Seems to me, though, that if a guy can’t run then he shouldn’t be playing, for his own sake and the greater good of the team. Last night, it looked like Brandon was having a hard time just jogging walking up the court. My vote is rest him for atleast a week or two, then reevaluate.
Weird thing is, last night was one of his best defensive efforts...
Honestly, the weird thing about last night was he had several steals and several deflectiosn as well as a couple of blocks. I can’t remember the last time Brandon was that effective on defense! I think the injury is more in his head at this point. Maybe he needs to see a head shrinker to get some ideas on how to ignore his fear of reinjury.
I do get being out of sync. He hasn’t played much bball over a period of a month and it will take playing time to get his legs back and especially his timing. Let’s see how he does over the next 2-3 games before we read too much into one performance against arguably the best defensive team around.
One thing we know for sure, this team will struggle to .500 for the rest of the season if Brandon doesn’t get back his game and that won’t be good enough for a playoff spot.
Brandon has been out since Jan 18..missed about 15 games. He's out of sync on the floor and with the team.
I hope that he gets in sync or sits.
Celts are still a top 5 defensive team on some nights...
…but are far from the consistently best defensive team. I’d argue the Lakers are actually playing better defensively on a night to night basis than the Celts right now. Nate said as much in his post game comments.
Still, your general point stands: we choked it down against a top tier defensive team. LA, OKC, BOS…these are teams that give our non-existent offense major problems when the ISOs aren’t effective.
i agree with you
if he plays like he did last night, it’s probably in everyone’s best interests if roy sits. the rest of the team can find out for themselves how to win a spot in the playoffs.
maybe give it one more game to see how roy does against a defense that doesn’t swam like the celtics. oh wait, utah next… sit him for that one too.
If he's not 100% healthy/confident in his body, he should sit
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Maybe if we were a title contender this year I’d say push it, but Roy’s health is not worth a shot at the 2nd round
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
by blazeraddict on Feb 20, 2010 10:17 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
As many above have said...
Last night was bad. He wasn’t even a threat to score out there. He looked maybe 70% and if that’s how it’s going to be I’d rather see Rudy try to find his game.
I'm with you
We know Rudy has game. We also have known since Rudy was signed that he would have a hard time getting the minutes he deserved because of Roy. That’s completely appropriate when Roy’s on his game, but now is a perfect opportunity to get Rudy some serious playing time and let him find his form. It just seems like short-term thinking to push Roy at this point, when they could be making the best of an unfortunate circumstance.
Just a heads up...
Hamstring injuries don’t heal by playing with them. lol. Sit him – stop hampering his ability to heal over a week’s worth of playoff games. I’m getting a little ticked off about it now.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
yes
it was mostly 4 on 5 last night, on both ends of the court when BRoy was out there.
the poster formerly known as sergioftw, in recovery
Total 100% agreement
Hamstring injuries stay with you until they are completely healed. Even if brandon plays the rest of the season and doesnt reinjure it, i still gurantee that the majority of his performances will be like the one last night. Rest brandon!
by agregs_and_odens on Feb 20, 2010 11:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions
agreed
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Feb 20, 2010 12:59 PM PST reply actions
Players that play hurt and ineffective hurt the team.
He’s not going to play back into game shape with a bad hammy, all he’s going to do is risk a more serious injury and play the worst shooting guard defense in the league.
aaaaand one more game of evidence.
Switch to Roy iso in the 4th quarter? Check. Stop all movement in the offense? Check. Defense loses all intensity from early in the game once Roy comes in? Check. Lead disappears? Check.
by Free Bayless on Feb 22, 2010 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Just give him a couple games
i don’t think we should sit him, he said he has no pain and everyone who watched him in practice said he looked fine. u need to give him a little bit to get his rhythm back, he hasn’t played in over a month. and of course he is going to be cautious he doesn’t want to hurt it again so give him time to get his game back and not to worry so much about his hamstring, plus we were playing Boston that’s already a hard enough team, its not like he went 3-8 against the timberwolves.
I haven’t seen ANYTHING that has Brandon saying he has no pain. Link it if you got it.
by botanyjames on Feb 20, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I just don't understand the reasoning
behind having him out there when he is dragging his leg around like a peg legged pirate. Is it moral support? Do they think the other players will get a boost in morale by seeing him out there valiantly playing through the pain? As was stated above, we could get a 9-4-1 in 35 min from almost anyone else (Shav?) and not be risking nearly as much. It may have been rust being his first full game participation in a month, but it isn’t good when I cringe everytime he jumps and lands becasue HE is cringing each time he jumps and lands.
BBS
by BringBackSabonis on Feb 20, 2010 7:38 PM PST reply actions
He feels pressure to play
from Nate, who has said he thinks the pain/injury is partly in Brandon’s head. From his teammates, like when Jerryd was totally shocked Brandon was telling the media his doubts that it will heal this season (after Tuesday’s game).
SIT HIM.
Everyone's hurting a little
at this point in the season. Roy doesn’t need to be at 100 percent. He certainly needs to be much closer than he is now however.
by almost awesome on Feb 20, 2010 10:46 PM PST reply actions
Have you have had a hamstring injury and played sports?
This is not something you play around with. You sit. Or you risk it becoming chronic and causing issues for 6 months or longer. At a bare minimum, a bad hammy pull takes 3 – 4 months to heal.
LOL
Have you have had a hamstring injury and played sports?
You really shouldn’t have gotten so upset when I asked if you had played basketball.
It is legitimate to ask such questions, you know. :)
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I am an expert on Brandon's hamstring
and what should be done. I can tell from thousands of miles away.
…
What if the hamstring is healthy and we’re dealing with primarily a mental block? What then? Medium to long term injuries can cause mental blocks, you know. What if careful tests have showed there is nothing wrong with it, but it still “feels tight” just because of a couple of months of trouble with it? I had that issue with a hamstring once, and ultimately, I just needed to get out there and use it, and the feeling gradually went away. My injury was worse than Brandon’s, but after it healed, it still didn’t “feel” healed for a couple of months. Even when I was fully up to speed again, it didn’t feel right for a while, and every little feeling in that leg seemed like a huge deal to me.
Should Brandon rest more? There’s only one thing I know, and that is that no one on this site knows.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
by jscot on Feb 21, 2010 12:16 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
Agree completely
A number of medical people with inside information are saying that what Brandon is doing is a viable option.
#52+1.5
by KINGofMACct on Feb 21, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting post, jscot. Almost encouraging...
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
without a doubt
Should Brandon rest more? There’s only one thing I know, and that is that no one on this site knows.
rec
by Sanquintin on Feb 21, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
jscot...did you play basketball? I think you may be right about the mental thing. It seems the team
wouldn’t risk re-injury or heads will roll. Though I think the entire fitness/training staff needs to be looked into…I posted on this subject. Aside from this, Brandon is most likely upset at the trade. He is on record stating the Blazers would be able to win a championship AS IS. Meaning…DON’T TRADE ANYONE. He probably knew TO, his BFF and Blake..also a good friend..were possibly going to be on the block with their expiring contracts. Yet KP didn’t consult him, the star of the team. Unlike Nate who went along with the starting of Blake bc Brandon wanted this. Emotions play a part in healing. Energy spent being upset saps energy that could be going toward physically healing. There is a huge connection between mind/body. I hope that Brandon’s desire to win triumphs over his being upset at not getting his way….if this is the case…just a possiblity.
Yes, I've played a lot and coached a little
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
lol
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
That's a legitimate point,,,
I think what the team needs to do PR wise is clarify whether his hammy has been classified as “pulled” or “strained”. These are 2 very different things.
You made note that his injury isn’t as bad as your previous injury was, so this tells me you’ve heard/read something that indicates his injury should possibly be called a strain. If you’ve had an actual pull, it feels like a rubber band snapping…and this is not something that be mistaken or should be played around with.
The problem with what you stated as your experience is that hamstrings injuries are notoriously difficult to predict. What may work for one player/injury will not for another. While you “playing through it” worked for you, it could result in a further pull or strain for another player. My pull was pretty serious when it occurred and took a full 6 months to heal because I re-strained it at least once.
General rule of thumb is a bad pull takes 3 – 4 months to heal with complete rest. It can quickly become chronic if re-pulled/strained.
One final point to consider…the amount of muscular force required by a player to be effective in the NBA is an order of magnitude greater than in college. If Roy were dealing with this injury in college, it’s likely he could still be effective offensively without putting himself at further risk of injury. In the pros, where players are much more athetic, Roy is having to put a lot of strain on his muscles with quick bursts of energy in order to get by and up over defenders. This increases his chances of an injury. The alternative is he doesn’t exert himself to this degree but then becomes relatively ineffective. It’s true that some of this may be mental. But, the danger of re-injuring a hammy is real, regardless of how much of this is mental.
Ultimately, I think if Roy comes out and gives a similar performance tonight as he did against Boston, it would be advisable to sit him regardless of the physical/mental component of his injury because he isn’t going to help us playing at that level.
Everything has said "strained"
Unlike Brewer, the reports say “partial tear”.
Of course hamstring injuries are difficult. That’s not my point. My point is that “more rest” is not necessarily the solution, as about 99% of the people on this site seem to think.
I didn’t say Brandon’s injury is the same as mine, and should be treated the same. I said, “What if”.
My subject line was intended to be sarcastic. Everyone thinks they are experts on this, and only those who have actually examined his leg really can make that claim.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
this is what I've been saying!
and I have no medical expertise, just did 15 min of research online seperating the wheat from the chaff and came to a similar conclusion
Green.
I currently have a groin pull. It felt terrible for the past month and a half and didn’t get any better even when I rested. I could play tennis for about 30 minutes before it got so stiff I could hardly move my leg. Then a week ago the pain pretty much went away. I would say I’m at about 80% right now.
Playing through it might not be the worse thing in the world. It worked for me.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 23, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
It probably only worked
because you rested first — groin pulls almost always need rest. But the time comes when there really has been enough rest, and using the muscle may be best.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Brandon may well have one of those injuries that take several years to heal in such a way it won’t bother him.
That doesn’t mean he can’t play in the near future, but he will have to get to a certain level of healthiness before he can do it without thinking about the hammy.
Eventually he’ll get to a point where he is always aware of the injury but he also knows he won’t re-injure it.
Romance me with that Roy rainbow shot which took flight from way beyond the arc and sailed so high that before it came back down to earth sealing the victory, it kissed the rafters and said "You're mine baby."
I've never heard of an injury,
that when treated properly, takes several years to heal from, excluding severe head/spine trauma. Definitely none of a muscular nature.
the poster formerly known as sergioftw, in recovery
NoLook, the medical community has conflicting info on whether or not hamstrings EVER become 100% again after a severe injury
The question here is how severe is the pull? This is easily something that could bother Brandon for 6 months to a year or longer if he doesn’t rest it.
All I can say is I’ve had a couple pulls. One nagged at me for several years.
I eventually got to a point where I never knew I had a problem. Oddly enough about 15 years after I was completely healthy, I went for some intense therapy (including chiropractic) due to a slipped disc. After each session I could feel the spot where the muscle used to nag me. I’m not saying that the therapy was reinjurying me, it was just a little surprising that I could feel an old injury I thought was gone for ever.
I cant’ remember how long ago Roy injured his hamstring, but here’s an article form over a year ago where Roy had missed 4 games due to it.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/01/roy_cleared_to_practice_friday.html
He had a groin injury in Mar of 2008, but I don’t think that’s the same injury.
http://www.broy7.com/roy/blogDetail/332
Romance me with that Roy rainbow shot which took flight from way beyond the arc and sailed so high that before it came back down to earth sealing the victory, it kissed the rafters and said "You're mine baby."
Er, I believe it's way PAST time to sit Brandon Roy
At this point, it may well be too late. By the time he’s truly healed, he’ll likely have too little time to regain his conditioning and rhythm in time for the playoffs. Assuming the Blazers make the playoffs sans Roy, his last-second return would probably just hurt the team.
This whole Roy hamstring episode baffles me. I’d like to think there’s a rational explanation, but I certainly haven’t heard one from Roy or the team. Could classic denial be the true explanation? Weird & frustrating.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
Depending on how severe the pull is, it is truly a much more serious injury than most people realize
Hamstrings are notorious for becoming chronic type injuries because they are overlooked and team-mates/coaches/fans who haven’t experienced a similar injury will often pressure the player to just “suck it up” and push through the pain. Which is easily the dumbest possible advice Roy could be given.
hamstrings
are also notorious for hurting due to issues in the knees and back. Which means there could be absolutely nothing wrong with his actual hammy, even though that’s where he “feels” it. I’m serious. Look it up.
This has been rehashed a lot, but the Shaq hip injury is very similar, the pain he felt wasn’t actually a problem with his hip, it was actually in his glutes/posterior chain, and was a muscle imbalance. PT on that issue fixed the hip pain subsequently.
I’m not an expert on what’s actually going on with Roy, but if the trainers are letting him play I’d like to assume there is no risk of long term damage.
His last two games have been just horrible..
I hope he’s not pouting because his bff was traded… But he’s been the worst player on the court lately…
This is a lost season anyway, I say we give Brandon the spring off for good behavior…
Let's give it some time
I agree that Roy was dragging a dead leg through the Celtics game. But he played 35 minutes which was a surprise to me. Let’s reserve judgement for a couple of games before deciding that we the fans know better than Brandon and the Blazers that we know what is best.
Brandon Roy never makes the Blazers play worse. What made them play worse was Batum being benched
because Nate is an idiotic coach. Brandon Roy should keep playing. He missed like 15 games. He is playing great when you take that into consideration.
no
batum started the game on the bench, and started the 2nd half on the bench. Pretty typical, really. We outscored the Jazz 23-22 in the third, and they beat us 23-10 in the fourth. Batum played 10 of the 12 minutes in the 4th, so please help me understand how that’s why we lost the game?
Brandon needs to play through it.
Hamstring injuries are very weird, yes. They can take a long time to heal, they can heal up in 3 to 5 days, they can linger on for months. They can be serious and painful or they can be mere inconveniences.
Roys performance last night was fine imo. He scored 23. His defense was somewhat suspect but I feel that this was due (in equal parts) to his trying to figure out what he can and can’t do at game speed as well as his lack of recent playing time.
The big issue I see is that the team (while Brandon was benched) was playing AS A TEAM and not simply throwing the ball to Roy and spectating. The Blazers lapsed ALL TOO EASILY back into their spectating ways once Roy got back on the floor and the team suffered from it.
He, and the team, will put the pieces back together correctly and get rolling again soon. I, like all of you, just hope it won’t be too late.
we can still win........
I was amazed last night
when, right after Fernandez made a series of outstanding plays, Roy came back into the game for him.
Roy needs to play – but does he need to play so many minutes? Right now?
I agree with you Anim8rguy – not just yet. Maybe later. But not right now. Let’s quit throwing cold water on Rudy (and Webster, Batum, and Bayless) by jerking them out of the lineup in favor of a wounded Roy. – Elgin
GOP in HD
RE: your update.. It's obvious to me...
Roy has been an absolute nightmare in the last few games. Unforced turnovers, even less D than usual, bad decisions on offense, and s-l-o-w decision making…
But I can’t blame Roy – he shouldn’t even be out there! Nate, for thelove of God, sit Brandon down! He’s NOT helping. Please, get Rudy, and Batum, and Dante out there, and stop calling plays, and let them play some basketball for a change! Driving me crazy… all this talent… wasted because of a terrible head coach.
Ok
so if it is just mental, which is a legitimate possibility, how do you get him back into game shape? Send him to the d league and probably lose the games he’s out anyway? Or eat a couple of losses and hope he’s back to form sooner than later?
appearenty I'm the only one who thinks it
but i think Roy looked 95 % himself towards the end of the game. It’s not his hammy that is killing us but the iso plays. Its kills the flow of our offense.
The Iso Plays Kill Us Because He Can't Execute Due to His Injury
He is not as mobile, so he can’t hitch and drive to the hoop.
He is hesitant about what to do because he knows he can’t finish, and the defenders know that now too, so his left as an outside shooter they can easily double team in the 4th.
The moves he used to make to get free from a defender to get the ball he cannot do, so the team is taking more time to get the ball to him.
If that’s him at 95%, that last 5% makes all the difference.
Roy may recover
but he will never play as well as he can without decent minutes. So heres the awkward transition phase.
I'm gonna be the only A-hole that owns a Nic Batum jersey that doesn't live in France. Awesome.
Perhaps the worst 20-point game by an NBAer since, well, the last time Iverson scored 20...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Or the last time Kobe played in Portland?
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!

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