No rental
by BrailleTaser on Feb 18, 2010 9:04 PM PST
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PrintI confess to not understanding at all the perspective (put forth mainly by Dave in a couple post-trade posts) that Camby won't likely be around next year because all the minutes that he would get will go to Greg and Joel. Let me just quickly outline the reasons that I don't see this as completely obvious. (Polite way of saying I disagree.)
First, Marcus Camby, unlike Greg or Joel, can play either the 4 or 5. So if we expect LaMarcus to play around 35 minutes per game (which would be much preferable to the 42 minutes or whatever we're expecting him to play now), then we would expect that Camby would get some burn at the 4 with the other big fellas. If we track Oden at between 20 and 25 minutes per game (which he got this year before the injury) and Przy less than 20 minutes (again, reasonable), then Camby could expect some burn at the 5 as well, totaling probably 20 mpg. Again, this is under the assumption that everyone is healthy, which is frankly not realistic. Yes, we've had unprecedented injury issues this year, but does this mean that we won't have any injuries next year? Between Aldridge, Camby, Oden and Przy, we should expect to be with less than four of them healthy for some not insignificant stretch of the season, even it is just short stretches off with typical bumps and bruises. None of these guys is an Andre Miller style iron man. If Aldridge goes out for a week or two with some little thing, Camby starts at the four and plays 30 minutes instead of 20 for that stretch. Oden or Przy go out, same deal -- Camby steps up his minutes as needed at both the four and the five. Frankly, we haven't had a genuine 4/5 with the versatility of Camby, and it will serve us well, in the course of even a typical season of injuries.
Three final thoughts on this issue. First, Dante Cunningham -- whose time may be squeezed if Camby's the primary backup 4 -- is different from some of our other young players in that (IMO) his progress won't be stunted in some critical way by playing behind other veterans. Dante's game is really pretty mature and if anything he will benefit from having such a group of veteran savvy players around him, much as he and Pendergraph have benefitted from having Juwan Howard around this year. Also, Camby will likely be signing his last substantive contract, and the Blazers could probably manage to give him a contract that would make him happy while letting him compete for a championship on a team he digs. Finally, between Oden, Camby and Przy, It's not clear to me at all that, in a minute crunch, Camby would be the one riding the pines. We should put the best team we can on the court, and Camby may very well take minutes from one of the others (likely Przy). If he can, is it a bad thing if he did?
In sum, far from not seeing a role for Camby next year, I say: let's make it worth his while and keep his versatility and savvy right here. We'll likely need it.
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No Rental for me!!!
COME BACK NEXT YEAR PLEASE!!!
twitter.com/djbready
Portland Trail Blazers 2009-2010 Western Conference Champs
though i loved the trade for Camby
the reasons he is a rental are
1) we will be assuming both centers (primarily Greg Oden) will be healthy, because that is the only way we wll win the title, and we have no more time to waste. Our title runs start next season, and we’re going to pray for Oden to stay healthy.
2) Though Camby can play at 4, Cunningham and Pendergraph are cheaper as Dave pointed out, and just as good options (better offensive option in Cunningham).
3) Camby would not accept a third string role, even with the possibility of Oden and Joel getting injured, which hopefully won’t happen.
Camby is Joel plus scoring. Joel would be third, IMO.
hating advanced stats since 1980
by TheTinfoil on Feb 18, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And frankly better rebounder, passer and shotblocker.
Camby was 2 time NBA Defensive team, and just 3 years ago was defensive player of the year.
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
I think he's been 2nd to Dwight Howard twice since then.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Will Joel will be recovered by the start of next season?
ignacio
by ignacio on Feb 18, 2010 10:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
reports are positive
a week or so ago Joel said he was a month-and-a-half ahead of his rehab schedule and (if he has no setbacks) will be cleared to run again in April
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Won't happen
As stated above, Camby won’t wanna play 3rd fiddle. He’ll want to start or at least play significant minutes. Also, he’ll want 8 mil+ per year for 2 years which is probly not in our budget and wouldn’t make sense for a 3rd string center. As for the 4 spot, Cunningham and Pend will be second year players and more than capable of playing backup 4 and much, much cheaper. I’d love to have him for the insurance, but likely a rental. This of course could all change if Oden or Przy aren’t healthy to start the year.
by Blaze of Glory on Feb 18, 2010 10:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
how is that not in our budget?
He and patty are the only guys we have to re-sign for next year, and Pryz comes off the following season. Even with LMA and BRoy’s extension, I believe we’re right at the salary cap, and far enough below the tax level to re-sign Camby. Check it out on HoopsHype. And that assumes that PA is unwilling to go into luxury zone for a title (I don’t claim to have inside info, but I hear the wealthiest owner in the NBA might be willing to do that)
He will be an unrestricted free agent. He can go wherever he wants, whoever pays him the most on a multi-year deal or offers him the best way to win a title. There is little the Blazers could do against it even if they would wan him back.
Yes, but
Who has cap space AND can offer him a shot at a title in the next two years (figuring that’s about his maximum horizon to play much)?
All contenders can presumably offer him MLE, but no other contenders can offer him more. We have a realistic shot at a title in 2011 or 12, and can offer him more than MLE. If we want him, we can certainly make him a very attractive offer.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
He has made $88 million over his career. We will never be the most likely title contender until we actually win one. I would like it, I just don’t see it.
I agree that others would be more likely contenders
but I doubt that money is totally irrelevant.
And there is something satisfying about being the older statesman mentoring the youngsters to a championship, for a guy like him.
If we decide to try to retain him, I think there is a very good chance we’ll be able to. But it probably in part depends on how things go, on the court and interpersonally, over the next couple of months.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
That's another interesting factor
That might reduce the number of teams willing to take a chance on him. It also might make the option of retaining four bigs more appealing to KP & co.
We may only have one of the four (LMA) who has a good health record, but with four of them, there’s likely to always be two and usually three available.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Oh, and forgot to say
Because of age and health history, a role where Marcus only plays 15-20 mpg when everyone is healthy, but can bump it up to 30-35 as injury cover if needed, might actually be appealing to him as well. If he averages 20 mpg, he might have another 3-4 years left, but he’s only one key injury from ending his career, and longer minutes certainly increase that possibility.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
2 words:
Bird rights
if we want him bad enough we can sign him, but those are the two sides of this coin: do we want him and does he want us at the end if the year?
The monetary issue is only how much we are willing to pay him, and it seems that with his BR we would be able to offer him the highest payout to championship ratio as most teams that will have a ton of cap over the MLE will be horrible. The thing is whether we want him or not.
Bayless and Roy= Fire and Ice (TM)
Spread the word
by SpyderRyder on Feb 19, 2010 2:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
It seems as though Camby forms attachments and unless The Nuggets are in the bidding
he may go with a team that he likes. If Camby likes Portland and his family likes Portland and the Blazers make him a reasonable offer I think there is a possibility he will stay. I think there are pieces in this scenario of which we as fans no nothing about.
if this sunny weather holds up for 2-3 months
we’ve got a chance to keep him here in PDX
(but then I’d fear for the firefighters, this summer…)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
With LMA, Oden, and Joel all healthy there's no way we would offer another big man $8M a year.
Ah, …. Paul Millsap who ????
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Feb 18, 2010 10:52 PM PST reply actions
If you have Paul Allen's money and you seriously want to win a championship you don't let a big salary walk away.
We will be over the cap so:
1) If you want a 4th big you try to re-sign Camby.
2) If you don’t want a 4th big
you try to sign and trade Camby
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Feb 18, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
That last post got cut off --
2) If you don’t want a 4th big you
a. try to sign and trade Camby or
b. sign Camby and later trade Camby or Joel (with his expiring contract).
"Brandon eats first around here" - KP
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Feb 18, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
Very possible
This summer, Joel is an expiring contract. And Camby is likely better than Joel, and certainly more flexible than Joel, in being able to play the 4.
The only reason to retain Joel over Marcus is that Joel is younger, but the injury calls into question whether his career will last longer.
If there are doubts about Joel’s health, we could go into the season with all four big men (Greg, Joel, Marcus, LaMarcus), or we could just cash in Joel’s EC.
Think Portland can’t pursue one of the big name FAs this year? Better think again — Joel’s EC, Andre’s EC, and some of our young talent makes a sign and trade a very feasible option. It also means we could pursue a blockbuster trade for any max contract player.
Signing Marcus to a two year contract is also a way of saying to Greg, “You know, your injury problems are forcing us to spend. Don’t think that they have no bearing on what we can pay you.”
We’ll see how he fits, but I put the chances pretty high that he’ll be offered a contract in excess of MLE to stay. Whether he does stay remains to be seen.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
by jscot on Feb 18, 2010 10:58 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
thanks for writing this so I don't have to
pretty much said what I wanted to say, only much better.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Feb 18, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for writing this so I don't have to.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 19, 2010 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, except ...
Doesn’t Joel have a player option this summer, then expiring in 2011? Being injured, he is probably not going to improve on his current deal with the Blazers, so I imagine he will re-sign.
Correct
I wasn’t clear. My point in saying we could “cash in Joel’s EC” is that we could trade him. As a big man who is likely to be able to be fairly productive at some point during the season, he is much more attractive than your average EC. If he doesn’t come back, insurance pays for his contract, if he does you get a player.
Andre also will be an EC that can play. Which means if we want to go after a big name free agent on a sign and trade, we have the contracts and the young talent that allows us to make a very attractive offer to the other team. We can offer 2 of Andre, Martell, or Joel, and that gets us pretty close to where you can trade for a max contract. Add Rudy or Jerryd and we’re probably within the 125% range of max.
So if KP wants to go for a blockbuster addition this year, he has the pieces to do it, if we retain Marcus. If we don’t, we really don’t want to trade Joel, which limits us considerably — unless we go for someone like Okafor — Joel plus young talent for Okafor would work, and would give us a very strong 3 man rotation at 4-5.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Keep Camby, say Goodbye to Joel.
Sorry man, Camby is just plain better all around:
Awards and honors
NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2006–07)
NBA All-Defensive First Team (2006–07, 2007–08)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2004–05, 2005–06)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1996–97)
John R. Wooden Award (1995–96)
Naismith College Player of the Year Award (1995–96)
Oscar Robertson Trophy (1995–96)
The Sporting News College Player of the Year
Associated Press First-Team All-American (1995–96)
UPI First-Team All-American (1995–96)
Basketball Weekly First-Team All-American (1995–96)
NCAA East Regional Most Outstanding Player (1995–96)
All-Atlantic 10 First Team (1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96)
Atlantic 10 Freshman of the Year (1993–94)
New Haven Register All-State Team (1992–1993)24
1996–97 Toronto 63 38 30.1 .482 .143 .693 6.3 1.5 1.0 2.1 14.8
1997–98 Toronto 63 58 31.8 .412 .000 .611 7.4 1.8 1.1 3.7 12.1
1998–99 New York 46 0 20.5 .521 .000 .553 5.5 .3 .6 1.6 7.2
1999–00 New York 59 11 26.2 .480 .500 .670 7.8 .8 .7 2.0 10.2
2000–01 New York 63 63 33.8 .524 .125 .667 11.5 .8 1.0 2.2 12.0
2001–02 New York 29 29 34.7 .448 .000 .626 11.1 1.1 1.2 1.7 11.1
2002–03 Denver 29 9 21.2 .410 .400 .660 7.2 1.6 .7 1.4 7.6
2003–04 Denver 72 72 30.0 .477 .000 .721 10.1 1.8 1.2 2.6 8.6
2004–05 Denver 66 66 30.5 .465 .000 .723 10.0 2.3 .9 3.0 10.3
2005–06 Denver 56 54 33.2 .465 .091 .712 11.9 2.1 1.4 3.3 12.8
2006–07 Denver 70 70 33.8 .473 .000 .729 11.7 3.2 1.2 3.3 11.2
2007–08 Denver 79 79 34.9 .450 .300 .708 13.1 3.3 1.1 3.6 9.1
2008–09 L.A. Clippers 62 55 31.0 .512 .250 .725 11.1 2.0 .8 2.1 10.3
Career 757 604 30.7 .471 .187 .682 9.8 1.9 1.0 2.6 10.7
vs Joel
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2000–01 Milwaukee 33 13 8.2 .343 .000 .273 2.2 .1 .1 .9 .8
2001–02 Milwaukee 71 62 15.9 .535 .000 .422 4.0 .3 .3 1.7 2.7
2002–03 Milwaukee 32 17 17.1 .391 .000 .500 4.5 .4 .3 1.4 1.5
2003–04 Milwaukee 5 0 6.6 .000 .000 .500 2.0 .6 .0 .0 .2
2003–04 Atlanta 12 12 26.2 .360 .000 .414 8.4 .3 .4 1.4 4.0
2004–05 Portland 76 50 24.4 .598 .000 .517 7.7 1.0 .3 2.1 6.4
2005–06 Portland 56 52 24.9 .548 .000 .532 7.0 .8 .4 2.3 6.1
2006–07 Portland 43 43 16.3 .474 .000 .370 3.9 .3 .2 1.6 2.0
2007–08 Portland 77 67 23.6 .576 .000 .680 8.4 .4 .2 1.2 4.8
2008–09 Portland 82 43 23.8 .625 .000 .663 8.7 .3 .4 1.2 5.5
Career 487 359 20.6 .557 .000 .552 6.4 .5 .3 1.5 4.2
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
it is absolutely INSANE to think greg or joel or la wont go down.
im not sold on pendegraph and at times not on aldridge. spend the money kevin
Yes, please offer this guy a nice contract this off-season.
3 centers is better than 2. Period.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
If we make a good run this year..
Then hit training camp with everyone healthy (or in Joel’s case recovering well) with Mr. Allen’s health issues I don’t really see him holding back on an opportunity to strengthen the team (assuming Marcus comes in, fits in, and plays well).
Now we all hope that Mr. Allen wins his current battle, and recovers fully. But I am sure this has put a little more urgency in his quest to bring a championship to our city. We all need to be thankful that as fans, we have an owner both with the means, and the desire to win and do it the right way. Imagine if we had Donald Sterling running the blazers…. we’d probably all be Laker fans ;)
But I am sure this has put a little more urgency in his quest to bring a championship to our city
Vance said that a Blazer source told him that Allen feels the Blazers are “a year behind” in their progress to win a championship. This timetable probably began when Oden was drafted, and has been delayed due to Greg’s injuries (and other health-related setbacks) but the post-season expectations remain high from the owner, and I doubt that his health has as much to do with it as his competitive nature
Reaching the playoffs and winning a series are the minimum goal for this year. If the team fails Nate and KP will have an “out” due to the injury barage. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not all trying to reach the team’s minimum 2010 season goal until they’re eliminated
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
At the risk of sounding silly (again)
I’ll say the same thing I said last July when KP made the toxic offer to Millsap
LMA could play “SF” 5-6 minutes per half, and if so Camby could average 30+ mpg
having 4 quality big men is not a logjam, it’s an opportunity. Joel would not need to be dealt if Marcus was resigned in July
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree that Joel would not need to be dealt
but his EC and his continuing ability to play (and Andre’s as well) puts a deal for a max player definitely in the mix of possibilities, if we have a 4-5 like Marcus.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
suspect salary structure in league is about to change dramatically
may well get camby for 6mm per year if you guarantee him 2 years, and maybe throw in a team option for 3rd with a 1 mm buyout.
suspect people wil be astonished at how well and how quickly camby fits in, and makes the blazers better. hell, lets start with tonite!!!
I am in favor of re-signing Camby as well.
What I would do this summer go a bit like this. First re-sign Camby to a resonable contract, something like a $5-6 mill for 2 years. Start the season with Oden and Camby as our Centers since I am guessing that Pryzbilla’s injury could take longer than expected to heal. As has been mentioned, trade Joel and Miller for a PG/SF that will be our final big piece to our Champoinship ambitions. Draft a wing scorer or big man to develop. I thought we completely wasted our 1st round pick last year in Claver. He will never be good enough for us and if he does, it wouldn’t be worth it to wait for him. KP should have just traded the pick if he didn’t want it.
BTW- who do we go after when/if we get to trade Pryzbilla and Miller? Andre Igoudala? Monta Ellis? They are the only ones that are currently available for trades. If by some crazy luck, Chris Paul or Deron Willams were available then how would they fit with Roy?
Who do we go after?
Any free agent this year is a potential sign and trade target. Perhaps Chris Bosh.
Other players that might fit: You mentioned Iggy. Perhaps Danny Granger. Perhaps Deron Williams demands a trade — we could perhaps make them better offers than anyone else as far as cheap talent and expiring contracts. Rudy would be great in their offense, I think. Perhaps S.A. misses the playoffs, decides to blow it up, and we get Tony Parker.
I wasn’t saying that signing Camby and trading Andre/Joel go together, just that signing Camby would open up lots of possibilities for us on the trade/FA front.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#7 #10 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
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