A Look at the (As-Yet-Unofficial) Marcus Camby Trade
by Dave on Feb 16, 2010 2:16 AM PST
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PrintTo follow the rolling Marcus Camby news breaks as they happened last evening check out Ben Golliver's post below. Keep in mind that nothing is final until the papers are signed and delivered. But even if the trade falls through at the last minute this should give you a sense of what it would have meant and therefore why it might, or ultimately might not, have been done.
What does the Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake for Marcus Camby trade amount to? The simplest explanation is usually the most accurate. The simplest explanation here is that this was a short-term move based on the comparative value of the players involved to the Blazers.
The Portland tenures of Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake, both on expiring contracts, were certain to end this season. The Blazers get nothing by letting them walk this summer. Even worse, up until now the Blazers were getting nothing out of Outlaw on the court because of injuries. With the regular rotation populated by the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Martell Webster, Nicolas Batum, and now Dante Cunningham they weren't likely to get big minutes out of him even when he returned. Whatever misgivings there might be about missing his ability to create a shot out of nothing can be tempered by the reality that he'd have 20 minutes to work his magic per game, a situation which he would not have viewed fondly nor probably produced in. Steve Blake's contributions, while underestimated in general, had been muted this year compared to past Portland seasons. They probably didn't view him as a determining factor in wins and losses in the final 27 games of the year.
Given that, the question becomes simple: What would give you more than very little during the remainder of the season and absolutely nothing afterwards? The answer was also simple: "almost anything". With the team lacking a center, a 35-year-old veteran who can play the middle, rebound, block shots, and hit a jumper in 30+ minutes per game qualifies well above "almost anything". Camby will help cement the Blazers into a lower playoff seed, a crucial achievement for this young team. Outlaw and Blake would not have done that. It's a no-brainer in that sense.
Camby is not a great straight-up defender. He's not going to be handcuffing Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum. He will block shots, especially when providing help. The Blazers will take that. He can rebound, which the Blazers also need big-time since the centers went down. His offense is best when he's facing up. He has a nice free-throw area jumper, which also fits in with this team. He's not going to change the offense, however. Whatever you're frustrated with offensively now you'll still be frustrated with when Marcus plays. His biggest asset is simply being a proficient player with size. Juwan Howard has done yeoman's work at center but how long could he and the Blazers get away with playing him 30+ minutes in crucial games? When you're crawling through the desert and someone offers you a drink you don't ask whether it's tap water or purified. That's what Marcus Camby is...a big old 6'11" pitcher of potable water that's going to allow us to make it through the arid sands until we hit habitable land again.
Don't let the natural excitement over the trade mislead you into making more of it than it is, however. The Blazers are getting a player who will provide exponentially more value in this critical stretch of the season than the players they're trading away would have. The Blazers are not getting a long-term solution at center. Over the long haul Portland will almost certainly come out even, having traded away two players they wouldn't re-sign for one player they won't re-sign.
Why won't Camby be a long-term Blazer? Portland probably needs a third center but Camby isn't it. He's 35, staring down the barrel of his last contract in the league. He might not command the $9.2 million he's currently earning but he's going to get as much as he can. Taking an 80% pay cut is not on his agenda. If he were to make his services available at a bargain it would be for other reasons: consistent minutes, a chance at a championship, or even a compatible environment. We can't be sure if any of those things motivates Mr. Camby but we are sure the Blazers can't offer him any of them right now.
Camby has been averaging 31 minutes per game with the Clippers, a number which has remained steady for years since he was a Knick. A healthy Blazers squad doesn't have 31 minutes to give a center/power forward. They might not have 10 minutes to give a center/power forward. Even if he thinks the chances of Greg Oden playing a full season are small Camby's not going to accept that kind of demotion. The Blazers should be quite good soon, but "soon" doesn't cut it for a 35-year old pivot. He needs "immediate", as in Boston, Cleveland, or the other Los Angeles immediate. As Ben's link-sleuthing pointed out, sources have reported Camby's initial reaction to the trade as negative, likely because he was hoping to stay in Los Angeles. With due apologies to Clippers fans, the only way that makes sense is if he wanted to live in L.A. If that's the case there's no chance he'd find Portland a suitable substitute.
The hesitation won't be one-sided either. Provided their other centers can recover before the fall there's no more incentive for the Blazers to pay Camby multiple millions to stay than there would have been to pay Outlaw multiple millions to stay. They are different players at different stages of their careers. They feature different skills and man different positions. But they have the same, basic problem of having no minutes available on this roster. That provides a distinct lack of value for the Blazers' money.
Summing up... Either Marcus Camby's next contract will be motivated by money which Portland won't want to give him or it will be motivated by by other desires which Portland can't fulfill. Short of a Joel Przybilla trade or retirement (which I supposed could happen if his knee injury is worse than we know) this isn't a long-term match.
In the end the Blazers walk away from this deal with a (likely) starting center for the rest of the season, a better chance at a playoff spot, and the same amount coming off the salary ledgers as they would have had otherwise, all at the cost of a broken forward and one of their three point guards. The Clippers, who weren't going anywhere this year even with Camby, walk away from this deal with either the chance to re-sign the relatively-young Outlaw where they wouldn't have re-signed Camby (a sure sign that he wasn't looking to come cheap) or the chance to trade Outlaw and/or Blake for some low-end picks. Whether they value Outlaw or are simply looking to turn him around and get back the second-rounder they spent on Camby originally they're not on the hook for extra salary either. It works for both sides...perhaps more clearly for the Blazers than the Clippers but again the willingness of the Clips to part with Camby for nebulous gain should also frame any assessment of his value to Portland beyond the obvious (admittedly potentially great) impact on the next couple dozen games.
Situations change. Maybe the Blazers find Camby so valuable that they're willing to retain him at any price. Maybe Camby falls in love with the team and its chances. But for now the deal is no more and no less than a very nice immediate move for this team, the kind that shows they're committed to making the post-season a part of their future even if they have to manufacture ways to make that happen.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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If this is so
why didn’t it happen earlier? Przy’s been out for a while. Were the Clippers just waiting until their playoff hopes evaporated? Were they waiting for Outlaw possibly to return?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
I also was not as certain that neither Blake nor Outlaw were in the Blazers' plans
Three teams (Portland now twice) have given up on Blake, and he has given each team quality minutes. Outlaw’s ability to create his own shot and hit it in the clutch is a valuable commodity. Both provide crucial components to an NBA team. I didn’t know, until now, that the Blazers front office think their other pieces compliment Roy better than these two.
I guess I don’t see much value in a short-term trade whose benefit is a better chance at making the playoffs, but not winning a championship.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
When the alternative is nothing
Then it makes sense. Unless there’s something about one of the other centers that we don’t know yet—and it would be WAY early to jump to that kind of conclusion—making the playoffs is a plenty good goal. I think it would have been devastating had the Blazers not followed up last year’s trip with another one. Even if they can’t get out of the first round they need to keep hammering at it.
—Dave
I don't get this.
How is losing Outlaw & Blake for nothing that bad? Especially given the high talent elsewhere on the roster?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nevermind.
I think I read your comment wrong Dave.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You did
I said what you said. Losing Outlaw didn’t hurt because we were almost certain to lose him anyway. Why not take Camby for 26 games instead of Outlaw for fewer when both probably end up leaving but you need a center way more than another forward?
—Dave
You made a point in your Falsehoop post a long time ago that has always stuck with me.
You can’t have a roster with 18 all-stars on it because of ego’s and time. I didn’t understand the Miller signing because of that, and I don’t understand why any team would need Batum, Fernandez, Outlaw, Udoka, Webster and whomever else (even with factoring in injuries).
Maybe this comes from sucking too much exhaust in the Central Valley or something.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You're correct pretty much
The key thing is whether the Blazers can identify who they’d like to keep and then get great value for the players they trade or if they’re always having to settle, either in keeping OR trading players.
—Dave
Bayless Roy Fernandez Batum Webster Aldridge Oden Przybilla and Miller is a pretty good 9.
The problem with that group is the backup PF as I see it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It isn't going to burn me is it?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also the Blazers have stashed Joel Freeland oversees who is a 6’11" C/PF. Who knows, he could be coming over next season or the season after that.
That makes sense.
Freeland has talent.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am definitely seeing this through the eyes of a fan who loves the individual players
because when I heard the first speculation of Camby coming to Portland, I salivated. But since that means actually trading two players away, I kind of want to keep them, too.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Also remember
that there was a fair chance that:
A. Outlaw was going to want money.
B. Outlaw was going to want to start or at least be guaranteed major minutes.
Portland couldn’t give him either of those things any more than they can give them to Camby. It’s likely he simply would have signed elsewhere under those conditions.
Also if the Blazers really, really want Blake back they can probably get him again. Who’s going to offer him more than the mid-level?
—Dave
hmm...never thought about that
It would make next year an uncertain one if they don’t follow up a playoff berth from last year.
Also, it is true, as a poster below pointed out, that it sure makes the rotation a lot clearer not having to figure Blake and Outlaw into it.
Just as long as we have enough (but not too many?) healthy bodies, having all this talent is a boon.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Maybe it's already been covered...
…but if this trade really is Blake, Outlaw, and cash for Camby, that also happens to open up a roster slot. Given the health we’ve seen so far…..
I do wonder how well Joel will recover. And when. So Marcus Camby, should he like it here and play well
here…may be an option for next year. If he will take a cut in pay. Which he may if he needs to do so. It should be interesting to see him play.
Expiring Contracts !!!!!
If we get Canby for the remainder of the year then offer Steve and or Travis a contract this summer then all is well. I have read that this happens all the time. rent a player out then get him back. I think that was the plan with Steve and Denver. Steve bought a home here while he was playing for Denver.
It was doubtful that Travis would get a lot of playing time the remainder of this year anyway, with Dante’s defense and short range jumpers can fill in at the 4 along with Pendy if Howie backs up Canby. We have Martell and Batman playing the 3, although neither can create their shots yet, I am sure Batman can learn. I also think Batman can drive to the basket better then Travis.
Also, would the Blazers be willing to give Travis or Blake the money they deserve for their next contract.
We have log jambs at the positions that Travis and Steve plays.
This will cut us down to a 14 man roster, do you think they might bring over one of the European players?
Anyway it could be short term and long term benefits at the same time.
hg
Either one makes sense
Or the Blazers holding out hopes of trading or packaging Outlaw for another target. More deals do happen near the deadline in general than happen otherwise for these reasons and more.
—Dave
Let me be the first to say...
Great trade.
We’ll see what shakes out this summer with Camby, Blake, and Outlaw, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see two of ’em back next year.
I still cannot figure out why the Clippers did this.
It makes no sense to me. They already have Al Thornton AND Blake Griffin for next season. To me Outlaw is a unilateral move to both of them for next season regardless of how well Outlaw plays returning from injury.
I don’t blame the Blazers or Pritchard or anyone else. This deal makes complete sense from their side. But for the Clippers? Never figure it out.
Either way, if this deal goes down for the Blazers it’s a great short term deal and long term deal as minutes will be easier to figure out without having to integrate Blake or Outlaw into the rotation. Giving Bayless that time and Fernandez/Batum the time at the 2/3 is probably going to make the Blazers far more potent in the long term than it would have had the Blazers kept Outlaw and Blake around.
Unless something changes between now & noon, I will say that Mike Dunleavy robbed his team of the best asset he had.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thornton is Outlaw-lite?
Blake is a better backup point guard than whoever the Clips are using now?
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
Super Rodgers Bros.
#52
I don't think what Outlaw offers is a real need for the Clippers.
Given that they have Butler and Thornton at the 3 already. But that’s my opinion.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Butler is a tweener between a SG and a SF, and in the bad sense of the word. Travis is better than Thornton (when healthy) who is also significantly older than most people think. Travis also is more of an offensive threat than backup Craig Smith, who on the other hand is a superior hustle player. And now that the Clippers have changed coaches and decided to have Davis call the shots again in a more free-wheeling system, that is almost an ideal situation for Travis. Not sure LA is the right city for him, but a team where he can get 15+ shots and is allowed to create for himself with a solid center behind him to clean up mistakes and a guard who sets him up is good for him. As for Steve, he is likely just a rental and they won’t intend to bring him back in LA with Davis and Gordon and Bassy around, though one never knows with that trade happy team.
I understand all this.
I still don’t really see the Travis Outlaw love. Apparently it’s a PDX thing.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's a part time PDX thing.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 2:56 AM PST up reply actions
Reportedly Memphis and New Jersey are also readying offers for him next season, at least when their #1 plans fall through. Other teams might do so as well, like I dunno the Wolves or any team in need of more offensive firepower from the wing or off the bench. He was in discussion for 6th man of the year last season. He has his limits, but also known advantages. No GM in his right mind should offer him a double figure salary, but $5+ million on a 3 or 4 year deal is not unreasonable.
I could see that.
I’m probably biased because Sac has been strong at the 2/3 for so long.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I expect Travis to sign with Memphis
it’s close to home, if they make him a decent offer in July he’ll be there
Trav even has a dog named Memphis
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I read that Thornton was on the way out, but don't remember where I read it or why he is on the way out
Don’t forget that the Clippers are always trading great assets to save money, ask Dre, he will tell you that.
hg
Also both are younger than Canby. So I don't think the Clippers suffered AT ALL in this trade.
Also $$$… I believe the Blazers added $$ to the trade.
Money?
They’ll save a few million this way. They weren’t contending this year anyway. If Camby really wants to live in LA so bad, they may be banking on resigning him cheaply at the end of the season as well.
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 2:45 AM PST up reply actions
Donald Sterling has made 10-20 million annually for the last decade Dominican.
Why he would trade Camby for money is beyond me. The last thing Donald Sterling needs is money.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You don't live in one of his slums do you?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Good.
It would force me to worry about you Morty.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
with the exception of a couple offseasons
he’s still been notoriously cheap. He’s no robert sarver, but he’s not paul allen/mark cuban either.
If they’re banking on him coming back in the offseason, he’s essentially renting camby out to us for a few million bucks. If they’re not contending anyway, why not? 4.5 million dollars is still 4.5 million dollars
not to mention he doesn’t really fit their timeframe anyway
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 2:51 AM PST up reply actions
No I know.
I just think it’s a cheap way to move an asset which Camby very much was.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I just assume it's the best they got
No one would give away nice young talent for him, and this way they make some scratch.
#52
If I were them I would have demanded a 1st round pick.
But that’s me.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think
they could have gotten one. Not from us at least.
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 3:03 AM PST up reply actions
if one was on the table
they would have taken it.
As a side-note, when I start a thought in the title and finish it in the opening sentence of the post, I feel like Horiatio Caine. The line break in between is me putting on my sunglasses
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 3:08 AM PST up reply actions
I'm gonna only post one sentence at a time from now on
and change my signature to YEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 3:14 AM PST up reply actions
It's also in their best long term interest to not be all that great
This also gives more minutes for DeAndre, if they wanna keep developing him.
It’s smart of them to not keep pretending they’re trying for the playoffs.
#52
Why wouldn't they want to improve?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Getting a better lottery pick would improve them more than "trying" and failing for a playoff spot.
Plus, more time for DeAndre could develop him, who knows.
#52
Maybe Camby really isn't helping them much either.
Still, I think Camby could have gotten more than what Portland got for him.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
While that team has never been able to put together a good, consistent roster
I doubt they are dumb, and there simply wasn’t that much they could get for Camby from teams that wanted him.
I also think Sterling highly values saving some scratch… plus I maintain it makes basketball sense to just get worse as a team overall if you got no chance at even an outside shot at the playoffs.
Camby is a player that helps, but not enough to propel a team with no shot at the playoffs into playoff contention, and not enough for a team wanting a nice big man to give up future assets. Just wasn’t the right time to get a lot for Camby, though they got him for super cheap from Denver.
Morty
#52
Maybe they really like Outlaw. I'm not a fan, but maybe MDsr is very different. I definitely can concede that is possible.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It has been said.
Canby was on an expiring contract and the Clippers wasn’t going to give him the money he would want, therefore this way they get something in return for losing him. Does that make sense?
hg
That's not the only trade they're looking for
Word is the Clips are also trying to trade Thornton. Make more sense now?
On top of likely solidifying lower playoff spot for this year..
This also cements us as the most likely “team that higher seeds want to avoid at all cost”, especially if Greg returns ahead of schedule.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
so our lineup looks like...
C – Camby/Howard
PF – LMA/Pend
SF – Batum/Martell/DC
SG – Roy/Rudy
PG – Miller/Bayless/Mills
that doesn’t look that bad to me, especially considering LMA and Pend can play at C. We get a great defensive center, along with already pretty good defenders in Batum and Martell.
And if Oden is healthy by playoff time, Oden/Camby or vice versa at center looks just as good as having pryzbilla.
Resident Smartass.
I think Cunningham is ahead of Pendergraph.
Pendergraph is now the third center.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 2:46 AM PST up reply actions
Also DC plays good D and can play the 4.
He is short for the four, but remember he can jump and he has that sweet midrange jump-shot..
hg
Camby also has a "shot" which Pryzbilla does NOT. Like Joel and love his defense but it IS
nice to see a center who can actually shoot the basketball…Juwan…
Underwhelming
I guess it’s safe to say that outside of the draft, all we can expect from KP is mediocrity. First the signing of the Miller and now Camby.
And what’s the deal with this line?
Don’t let the natural excitement over the trade mislead you into making more of it than it is
Trades are lame because they offer false hope. I think the only trade that has every excited me was the Pippen trade.
The Roy trade was pretty cool.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 2:56 AM PST up reply actions
He's got you on that one Tom.
That might be the best trade of the decade when you consider everything.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think he was counting the Roy trade as part of the draft
but I’m not a mind-reader
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Fair enough.
Still amazing though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Roy hasn't done a thing all month
That trade will only look good if he manages to have a good career the rest of the way. Right now, if you judge him by the past week or two, we lost that trade big time.
Mortimer
#52
by Mortimer on Feb 16, 2010 3:14 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Only you Morty.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree
Nate for Coach of the Year because we beat Phoenix.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Look on the bright side: You can still hate on Miller and Bayless with full force now. And maybe get other fans to join you.
With this group he could hate God and get another side to hate Jesus instead.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2010 3:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That either made no sense
or is pure genius.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
I think I'll hate on Miller for a day or two then fall back
All the people that loved to bash Outlaw and Blake will need to turn their anger on someone else. Nate will take a lot of heat, but they will turn on someone. Maybe they will bash Howard. I hope they pick someone younger, like Webster. Then I can turn on Batum.
I normally don't get bent out of shape over what could have been because it seems unhealthy to me
Tomorrows JD should have a poll:
Who is the new Blazersedge Designated Whipping Boy?
Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw were whipping boys?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Search Twitter for the hashtag #NoSteve (and #NoNate) some time. Or any old game day thread from last year’s playoffs. We also had threads discussing the supposed existence of a metric called “basketball IQ”, and if exists how high or low Travis would rank on it.
Some of it was intrinsic caused by their own mistakes and the fact not everyone has the talent to be a superstar, some of it them taking playing time from other younger players. Everyone has their favorites and guys to blame for losses or errors. I’m sure most fan bases do.
Yup no doubt on every fanbase has their whipping boys.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Outlaw hate kind of went down
But the Blake hate was funny this year. I think he was accused of taking playing time from just about every other player on the roster, even if Blake only played a few minutes.
Other than Bayless that argument makes no sense.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He'd play a lot of SG too
Over Rudy a lot of times. Lots of 3 guard lineups, that sort of thang.
Blake definitely got the most hate this season, and more than he ever had gotten before. He was having a down year, but he didn’t deserve it.
In years past, Outlaw was the sure-fire whipping boy.
Morty
#52
I'm trying to think who the most popular Kings whipping boy is right now.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh yes.
But it’s not always him.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
With that being said
I would say right now it’s Kevin Martin. Stupid as that is, it’s true.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Morty & Sexy should not ever be used in the same sentence with the sole exception of being used as a putdown.
That being said, I’m sure his wife disagrees.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I hope your dog loves her more than you.
All I gotta say on this matter.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sorry to hear that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I could swear you got married like a year ago.
But maybe it was a joke and I missed the sarcasm.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Okay so I'm not crazy. But apparently you are.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How can you stand LA?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's not that bad
I live and work here. It’s overrated as far as a popular city goes, but it’s not so bad.
—M
#52
You must not do a lot of driving. LOL
I couldn’t do LA. It would drive me nuts.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As Meg Ryan said in "Joe versus the Volcano"
“It stinks, but it’s a great town”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
LA is a town
Seemed to me that it was an ever-expanding sprawl of strip malls.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Feb 16, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Kenny Thomas for his inability to get traded for a better player? ;-)
That’s what many Bulls fans blame Kirk Hinrich for. “Why does nobody want to trade for you! We need the cap space!”
In years past K9 was definitely a major whipping boy.
This season? Not so much cuz people know he’s gone for a better player in a trade or off the cap finally. (Yes, I do that Webb deal again knowing what I know now.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I learned to hate on Nate for playing Blake too many minutes
Blake does what he does, I don’t hate his game, just that he got more minutes than he deserved.
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
I disagree
Nate’s job is winning and Blake always went in when all the young guys were sucking and unfortunately, that was often. None of the young guys seem to be held accountable by the fans for crappy play.
Blake went in either way...
15-20 minutes would have been about right IMO. No point in worrying about it now though…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
Yeah
Blake was often inconsistent, but I think his off nights weren’t normally as off as some of the other guys. A lot of the Blazers seem to disappear if they’re shot’s not falling.
Other side of the coin
Blake’s on nights werent as on some of the other guys. Youngin’s have wild swing in play, best way to cure that is to give them minutes to develop.
I think Rudy is next in line as the designated whipping boy unless he steps up his game, Bayless isnt far behind. How long until people are demanding for Mills to get minutes? A couple ugly games from Bayless and I think it starts up…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
Yeah
I think the DWB is a throwdown between Webster, Rudy, and Bayless. Webster is in the lead, but with Blake gone, the other two should get more playing time and have more opportunities to make mistakes.
Martell has tenure
the longer you’re around, the more “failures” will be remembered
it’s the nature of the beast
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Great point
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
People are already quietly pimping Mills
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Feb 16, 2010 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
Kenny Vance
not so quietly
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think KP got robbed.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or he's just a bastard.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think Webster will be the likely target as he seems to earn it on a fairly consistent (ironically) basis!
You could start in on Batum as the whimpy Frenchman who can’t take a little pain….something along those lines.
I'm not in a rush
I think Nate will take a lot of heat for the first week or two. Fans will blame him for Camby being ugly.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
if he gets other fans to join him, he'll move onto something else
haven’t you figured out how Tom rolls, yet?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nah
In in it for the long haul. I even became a member of the webpage in my signature.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
maybe we should trade Oden, Aldridge and parts for Steve Nash and Ray Allen
and contend for last year’s title
we couldn’t possibly be the third youngest team in the league anymore now, could we?
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Feb 16, 2010 3:06 AM PST up reply actions
i think this trade increased our odds of reaching the 1st round of the playoffs
im impressed with how denver is trying to mess things up. we should have done that with odom.
by Captain fruit on Feb 16, 2010 3:26 AM PST up reply actions
I'm on the fense with that
To me, the best part of this trade is fewer ridiculously bitter posts and comments about Outlaw and Blake on Blazersedge. Some posts were downright hateful and the less of that, the better.
The Portland tenures of Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake, both on expiring contracts, were certain to end this season. The Blazers get nothing by letting them walk this summer
yep, the ol’ trade so he doesnt walk argument. I was told that this argument doesnt make sense. What do I know though, I am not an nba gm…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
In those situations
I figure they felt Frye would help more than who we could get.
If we weren’t getting Camby, there aren’t a lot of available guys we could get with Blake/Outlaw that we would wanna get over just having guys we know and are comfortable with for the rest of the year.
It makes sense to get SOMETHING for them before losing them for nothing, but only if it’s something that HELPS you.
Morty
#52
Of course. And with Haywood gone in the Mavericks deal, there were not that many teams out there clearly willing to give up on their center. That Camby deal made so much sense that we talked about it weeks ago. Guys like Mohammed, Gortat, Okafor were just ideas and the opinions of their coach and GM about retaining or moving them changes by the week.
I don't think the Blazers ever had a shot at Gortat cuz of his being BYC Norskie.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah but Brandon Bass is not happy.
When I’m not a blind follower of my Baby Royals, I’m a faithful bandwagon Magic fan. I still cannot figure out for the life of me why Otis Smith brought Brandon Bass AND Marcin Gortat in. Either bring Bass in, or retain Gortat.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If you're gonna keep one, it has to be Gortat
I figure they just wanted as much big man depth as possible, because they’re going for it now, hardcore.
M—
#52
I don't know
At the time I thought Bass would be more valuable, but now I definitely think that Ryan Anderson is really only a 4 in their system and Bass has absolutely no use. Otis really wasted Devoss’ family money on that one. At least they can afford it. And it isn’t the first time.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think they'll believe it's worth it if he just has 1 good quarter in the playoffs
If sumthin’ happens, they gotta play their 3rd string backup PF, and Bass goes 5 for 7 on midrange jumpers in the quarter, they’ll be happy.
It’s like how we were in 99-2000. If Stacey Augmon has a good quarter, it was totally worth it!
If the Magic don’t even come close to a title this year, I could see them moving someone redundant like Bass.
#52
Jeez u Blzr fans know everythingz!
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You're a nut.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I could have been done even without involving a third team, I had figured out a deal that would have been legal (they only have 13 players under contract). But yes, it was one of the more far-out ideas.
The Blazers have enough cap room to pull it off?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yup, at least they did before this deal. And it would have been much more disruptive with about 7 players changing teams.
LOL Yeah.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And as everyone knows Morty your opinion is all that matters.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Watch yo back Morty!
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I never understood it either
I remember everyone being upset that Jamaal Magloire’s expiring contract wasn’t traded and I asked on O-Live why fans think expiring contracts are only valuable to other teams.
It is definitely situational
All signs point to trading one or two perimeter players this season considering the blazers current situation. Injuries were a factor, roster balance(too many perimeter players and not enough bigs). Not needing the expirings because the blazers were not getting under the cap letting those contracts expire coupled with a rich owner that isn’t penny pinching. Clearing room to open up more minutes for developing young players that are in the long term plans. The fact that our expiring guys probably werent in the long term future and wouldnt be resigned. etc. etc. The only reason for the blazers to not make a trade like this one is if KP couldnt get a player that would help the blazers more than Blake and/or a recovering Outlaw would. I was starting to fear this would happen, but I am glad it didnt…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
What got me
Is I think that if the Blazers always traded every expiring contract, they would still be way way way over the salary cap.
Thats why some situations don't dictate trading an expire...
I don’t think this season qualifies there…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
Yeah
I hope Camby gets more wins and I see why the trade happened. I could also see Outlaw and Blake helping the Blazers win a game or 2. I think the trade is a wash.
Roster balance is important.
one center > two extra wings
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 4:35 AM PST up reply actions
4-6 over the last ten games is not fine.
I would like to make the playoffs and if all it takes is the team’s third PG and someone who’s probably not coming back anyway, then I don’t see the problem.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 5:20 AM PST up reply actions
Sure.
The team still didn’t have a center. You do agree that professional basketball teams need a center right? Not four point guards.
Anyway it doesn’t really matter. The real winner here is me, because I no longer have to think or talk about Steve Blake. He did some good things for this team and for that I am grateful. I’m just glad that we finally have a legit starting PG. It’s been a long journey of mediocrity.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 6:04 AM PST up reply actions
The Blazers were OK with Howard at center and I disagree with your 2nd to last sentence
Blake was mediocre and Miller is upgraded mediocre. The Blazers never go off course of PG mediocrity.
I’m happy I don’t have to read folks complaining about Blake anymore, but Miller still an average or above average on some nights point guard and a short term solution to a long term problem.
I would have rather had the Blazers say Bayless was the PG of the future and start him with the starters and have Blake back him up than have Miller still here inhibiting the development of Bayless.
Ever second Miller is on the Blazers prevents the Blazers championship window from opening.
You are so melodramatic
Honestly Miller brings a couple very good skills to the table, skills that I think Bayless has got to learn. Bayless can play a game similar to Andre but play it more athletically and with an outside shot to add and develop.
I still plan to fly to Portland in November and punch Miller at the Harvest Dinner if he's still a Blazer next year
I gotta look scruffy so I’m going to borrow some of Mortimer’s clothes.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
If only you could borrow Mortimer's face
then you would be set
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Feb 16, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
he's been 86ed
Got a Poleroid of him at the gate.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
Hopefully all the hyperbole will blow over now.
Most of the stuff people say is at least somewhat true, usually the problem is that it’s just oversimplified.
Blake was pretty terrible this year, but that’s not the whole story. He did some good things and was pretty consistent at doing those things.
I think he helped the team a lot last season. I think he helped the team a couple games this season. I hope he does well in LA. I’m not going to miss him at all, but I wish him the best.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
Another thing to consider: Steve and Travis played poorly in the playoffs against Houston
Miller and Camby had strong seasons and good playoffs together (though Tom is searching for quotes that they hate each other as we speak).
And we can expect Camby to play like he has always played during the regular season, in the playoffs
He is dependable. He’s always done what he does and hasn’t really slipped even at his obscenely advanced age.
Guys we know what they’ll do in the playoffs will help.
M—
#52
Advanced age?
even at his obscenely advanced age.
Juwan can still call Camby ‘whippersnapper’ so he isn’t that old.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Feb 16, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
But I don’t expect Camby to play in the playoffs. I don’t expect to see him in a Blazers jersey after he wears the red uniform. I’ll see him in a suit after that.
Steve and Travis played poorly in the playoffs against Houston
This is true, and it was one of the reasons why I was glad KP signed Miller in July
But I thought Blake could be a above-average NBA backup PG, if Nate had only used him in that way. Outlaw? I had no anticipation of him ever becoming a playoff-caliber rotation player. Way too many boo-boos. He’ll be better off on a non-contending team with a free-flowing offense, with a green light to burp up leaning jump shots and under minimal pressure to remember his defensive rotation assignments and to always box out
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Travis KILLED us in the playoffs.
I have no doubt that Dante and Nic will fill his minute-hole quite nicely.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism. For the record, it’s my least favorite quality, and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they would get. But, if you work hard and you’re kind, I’m telling you, amazing things will happen."
-Conan O'Brien
Wow, that sounded dirtier than I originally intended.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism. For the record, it’s my least favorite quality, and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they would get. But, if you work hard and you’re kind, I’m telling you, amazing things will happen."
-Conan O'Brien
Camby will not help this team get out of the 1st round if they're a 7th/8th seed
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Well... no kiddin'
It isn’t likely, no. We’re hoping to MAKE the playoffs right now, no point in gettin’ greedy!
—M
#52
Limping into the Playoffs and getting bounced in the 1st round doesn't benefit this franchise
Oh the other hand, getting into the lottery and having a shot (albeit small) at potential franchise pillars like Wall and Cousins – can.
Given its current state, making the playoffs and getting blitzed in a week does nothing for this franchise.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I would argue what this franchise needs most is a young PF/C like Derrick Favors.
A lot more than John Wall. Still, the playoffs beckon for the Blazers if and when Roy gets healthy. He’s too good, and the Blazers have too much talent.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I woud bet money Nate would bring Wall off the bench.
I remember he originally wanted to being Roy off the bench during his rookie season. He cited balance between the two units.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 4:37 AM PST up reply actions
I think more playoff experience for Roy, Batum, Bayless, Rudy, and LMA
Is much more gooder than a miniscule and non-existent chance at getting Wall.
M—
#52
I can't really imagine how much better the Blazers are with John Wall than Jerryd Bayless.
I really can’t. As crazy as that sounds.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Trust me on this...
John Wall will be a winner wherever he goes. Like Lebron James (yes i said it) he’ll revolutionize that position. Bayless is a shooting guard in a PG’s body.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
and mine
Clearly Andre isn’t going to be around forever. Miller’s expiring contract plus Rudy could potentially land Harris. And KP likes Devin a lot
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Devin Harris would work in Portland IMO.
There is no way any team is trading John Wall unless that team is maybe Sac.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sactown would take Wall and trade Martin 100 times out of 100 moving either Tyreke or Wall to SG. As they should. Wall is the best guard to come out of college since Wade.
Bet you they wouldn't Norskie.
They would move Wall and try to get something else. Bet you money.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What makes you think the Kings could get something awesome for Wall?
I bet you they could. In fact I know they would.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Let me ask you this.
Would you rather have John Wall or Brandon Roy?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Roy
But if we had Wall and Roy I would have them try to make it work as dual playmaker/scorers.
Wall is certainly more athletic but I need to see what his decision making is like in the NBA to know how special he can be.
m—
#52
The difference between Brandon Roy and Tyreke Evans is that Tyreke does not play off the ball at all. It's not what he's good at.
Brandon Roy can, and effectively, play off the ball on a more consistent basis.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tyreke is quite young
He couldn’t learn it?
Roy has never really played off the ball either, until this year. It was considered a weakness of his.
#52
But B-Roy is what 26 now?
Reke is only 20 right now. Roy was quite a bit older when he came into the league. (They were both mature.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And Morty I would argue that Derrick Favors would give the Blazers a long term chance to compete in light of Oden's injuries.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For whatever reasons
The Blazers and Kings have similar rosters and strengths/weaknesses.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And that's where smart people go bad with this Kings teams.
Tyreke is NOT a SG. He’s just not. He doesn’t know how to play off the ball. It’s not his thing. It’s why he & Speed are so awesome together if things continue as they have recently.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He doesnt really look like a point guard either
He reminds of Broy, pure combo guard awesomeness. They could play either position offensively, you almost have to let size and where they play best defensively determine it…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
The difference between B-Roy and Reke is that Roy plays really well off the ball
Reke does not. It’s not really a criticism, but I think that’s why any Reke/Wall pairing will not work.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Like Mort said above
Roy is far more comfortable with the ball in his hands. Most of his scoring/playmaking comes when he is controlling the ball and working off the dribble. He has gotten better this year because we finally got a good point guard. I imagine Reke could go through the same progression should he get a good pg to play off of…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
As far as I'm concerned Reke is already a terrific PG who only can get better.
I’ve seen nothing that suggests he can’t improve.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sure
And he could likely improve at being off the ball, if someone was better than he was at being the PG.
That’s all we mean.
Maybe Wall would be the off the ball man… they are both so talented, you’d wanna see if it could work.
But what you said above is right— they would get a ton if they got the #1 pick and were open to trading it.
#52
The Kings need a lot more help up front than they do in trying to make Wall & Evans work because that's what the imagination would lead lots of fans to think.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tyreke is quickly becoming one of my favorites to watch
I think the sky is the limit for him…
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
I still can't believe he willed the Kings into OT against New York in MSG.
That was beyond retarded. And I’ve seen him do that several times before.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
In which one of the recent 17 losses against good teams and 4 wins against bad ones was that awesomeness on display? Nothing against Kevin Martin, but I would risk not getting as much for him as for Wall, and move Wall to SG if they figured Tyreke is not good at it. Wall and Tyreke would be a deadly 1-2 punch, and Wall can even block shots like PF.
That was without Kevin Martin. And the loss to Denver with was Kevin and not Tyreke.
Go figure.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Against New York & Detroit there was good games by Martin & Evans.
in the previous week there was quality games against Utah & Charlotte in b2b nights. It’s going to get worked out eventually. Both want it to work and so does all the people in the franchise involved. Only outsiders think it won’t work.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They learned what it was like to lose a playoff series last year.
I think they got it down.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
More experience is gooder
Than a 14th pick in the lottery. It matters.
Morty
#52
by Mortimer on Feb 16, 2010 3:59 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
this year they've got veterans
Miller, Howard, now Camby
last year they were babes in the woods, and it showed in games 1,3,4,6
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I would argue that teaching your players to always try to win is much more important than getting pick 14.
It’s not every day you tank and get a Duncan or Lebron.
Cleveland just stunk that year. They didn't really tank.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thats just wrong.
We are not in a tanking/rebuilding part of our development. I dont want to watch our capable and promising squad start losing because we hope the lottery will bail us out. No, now the blazers need to suck it up and learn to deal with the harsh world of the playoffs. Getting another young asset to develop next year pushes our window back further, which no one in portland wants.
by Sir.Ludo on Feb 16, 2010 7:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I completely....and categorically ...disagree with this
Winners win….and losers tank
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Feb 16, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
What would be the point of missing the playoffs even with all the injuries?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think this deal also cements the notion that the team does not expect Greg back in time for the playoffs
If there ever was a thought about that
I think it cements the fact that we need a center
Even if Oden came back, that’s only 1 center. We know for sure Joel won’t be back. I think this move makes a lot of sense even if Oden is back tomorrow, let alone by the playoffs.
M—
#52
I'm a fan of this trade
I hope it’s a done deal. We get the short term center help that we need, and we clear a little bit of the logjam at the guard and forward positions so that guys like Rudy, Bayless, Batum, and Cunningham can continue to get minutes and develop.
Also, with the Rumors on Joel
HEAVEN FORBID:: If Joel can’t make it back and the fact that he is on the end of his contract. the Blazers might be planning to offer Candy the money Joel would have gotten.
Canby offers more offense and is as good a defensive player as Joel. This is a business with no loyalty. Right????
hg
I think Joel is a better defender overall.
But yeah, it’s good to have options.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 16, 2010 6:06 AM PST up reply actions
Joel is ahead of schedule on his rehab
and the next year of his contract is his option, not the front offices’
I don’t expect him to opt out, so that means he’ll be back (there’s no way he’ll be traded)
Camby? We’ll see about that in July. Having a healthy Greg/Joel/Marcus would be a “good” problem, if it ever comes to that
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Pleasantly surprised by this trade
I like Camby and getting him for Blake/Outlaw is basically getting him for free. And we’re not even having to take on any long-term salary. This is definitely the best we were going to get for Stevis Outlake’s Expiring Contract, so the only question would be what we could have gotten for an SOEC+Bayless or SOEC+Rudy or SOEC+Martell combo … and I don’t think it would have been worth giving up another one of those guys.
camby and teammates not to happy per yahoo sports
this a very typical trade for sterling, though!!
$$$$$
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism. For the record, it’s my least favorite quality, and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they would get. But, if you work hard and you’re kind, I’m telling you, amazing things will happen."
-Conan O'Brien
by Mr. Knox on Feb 16, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This should be green
No one wanted him and he talked his way onto the roster. I say that without any snark.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
by tominhawaii on Feb 16, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
While I do think he came here primarily for the money, I wouldn't say "no one wanted him."
Wasn’t Nate glowing about him after the dinner? And KP definitely wanted Dre, even if he wasn’t his first choice.
I don’t remember reading the players’ reactions before it happened. Can you provide links to back up the idea that “no one wanted him” and “he talked his way onto the roster”?
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism. For the record, it’s my least favorite quality, and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they would get. But, if you work hard and you’re kind, I’m telling you, amazing things will happen."
-Conan O'Brien
I remember them not wanting him before that dinner because he had no outside shot
If I wasn’t so lazy, I’d look it up. I know it all started with Miller talking to Mike B in a hotel lobby.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
I believe Nate wanted him
BLAZER FANS didn’t want him for the outside shot reason, unless you have insider information.
He wasn’t first or second choice, but he was third choice.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Looks like I was wrong
Then again, Nate is an idiot and needs to be fired.
Blazers notebook: Andre Miller was Nate McMillan’s target
If I looked harder, I could find a contradictory article.
He will compete against last season’s starter Steve Blake, a six-year veteran who is coming off his finest season, during which he averaged a career-high 11.0 points and shot a career-high 42.7 percent from three-point range.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
Money is the root of all Evil
Could it be possible the Blazers let Camby go and do not resign Blake or Outlaw. With so much talk about money woes from owners the Blazers could just pick up some low end players and go with the players that remain.
The LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil
just sayin
"In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him."
that sounds like the Vulcans talking
but not Paul Allen. The payroll will go up in July due to Roy/LMA, but the team still won’t be at the luxury tax threshold, and the MLE will be available if they choose to use it
If Allen sells the team it may be the apocalypse and Portland could wind up like the Clippers, but for now they’ll spend whatever they can to win it all
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is a GREAT trade for the Blazers...
We get what we need and we hardly give up anything. Outlaw would be sharing time with a lot of people and will leave at the end of the year anyway. This should make a lot of people excited for possible deep playoff run if it goes through. I really doubt this is going to go through though. Teams will see that the Blazers offered the Clips peanuts for Camby and will be able to steal him away last minute. Mark my words but I do hope I’m wrong.
I'm a Blazers homer, but I don't think a deep playoff run is possible
Camby will help the Blazers make the playoffs but no team that starts Camby at center and Miller at point guard is going to do any damage worth noting. Basically the Blazers are saying playoff experience for the young guys is more important than the 14th pick in the draft.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
Playoff experience plus the 18th pick in the draft
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Feb 16, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty shocked the Clippers would actually do this trade.
It doesn’t make sense to me, unless they’re planning on doing some combo deals and dumb some nasty contracts. But how can they without the attractive contract of Camby? Oh well, the dysfunctional Clippers organization has benefited us greatly if this falls through. Thanks, Clippers.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
Telfair vs. Blake part 2
WHO… WILL… WIN???
by JMLakaShotCaller on Feb 16, 2010 7:38 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Perfect fit
By all accounts he does the hard work without needing plays run for him. Kinda like Przybilla in that sense. He’s a much needed big who fits into our existing system. And he makes a living on the glass.
Anyone read
how unhappy Camby was about the news? Also one of his teamates was pissed because “the team is trading their defensive presence for what amounts to a backup point gaurd”. Ouch. I hope lil Trav is ready for the real world. I wonder if the Clips announcers will be as nice as ours and remind him to rebound? Six years in the league and you need announcers to keep you motivated. See ya Trav.
This smells of desperation
Camby is not the player you remember (or think you remember). It would behoove those who are excited to dig up some Clipper games and scout the actual player and not the shadow they remember 5-7 years ago.
I’m not saying Blake/Outlaw are better, I’m just saying that Pritch could not get anyone else, because he if could he would have gone that direction. This is a Miller type acquisition – the only one left.
Isn't he still averaging 12 boards a game??
That sounds useful
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Feb 16, 2010 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
WHAT?!?!? You cant be serious.
He plays in the western conference against the same players the blazers do, and he has another good rebounder in Kaman alongside him to compete with for boards. Maybe actually checking his stats would do you some good. He is first in the nba in total rebound percentage, and 1st in the nba in total rebounds per 36 minutes. Above Dwight Howard, above Joel Pryzbilla and Greg Oden.
RUDY > MJ
Trade for Dalembert
Brilliant
Maybe this trade is one huge bluff. KP Knows the Clips are looking to move other assets as part of the trade, so he stalls on that. However, in the meantime while both sides are having “negotiations”, they play each other. How can you play your heart out for a team that is giving up on you, against a team that is going to be your new home for the next 3 months. Especially when that team you are going to needs every win they can get to make the playoffs. Essentially, Outlaw, Blake, and Camby have to sit out tonight.
Outlaw wasn’t going to play anyway. We can make it without Blake for the game, as we have Miller and Bayless. So there it is. All these rumors, and all KP is doing is taking their rebound leader and starting PF out of the game. Brilliant!
This is a classic rental using players that KP wasn't going to re-sign -- which was exactly the mission statement for him...
The Clips save a million bucks or something, which is their classic motivation for action, and if they really love Camby, they can re-sign him this summer anyway…
Note: Andre Miller has played with Camby before in Denver. They were regarded as the two guys who turned that franchise around, while the rookie Melo got all the credit…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Thank you, KP. Sanity may be restored to Nate's PG rotation.
As someone who has been advocating packaging Blake and Trout at the trade deadline since last summer it is nice to know I am not crazy. I wish Camby was a bit younger, and I hope Dave is wrong about our chances of keeping him next season. Originally, I had hoped that Blake and Outlaw could be packaged for a back-up PF with some range, but given the injuries Camby is a good fit. I hope we can convince him to stick around.
Most of all I am thrilled that KP had the good sense to do something about Nate’s nearly criminal overplaying of Blake. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate Blake. Very good guy, and when his shot was on he had a very sizable impact for the team. However, his shot was frequently not on this season and his other limitations were on full display.
Most of all, Blake was in the way of developing Bayless and finding out if Mills belongs. Blake wasn’t good enough to start and was in the way of the guys who should be starting when Miller is done. With the exception of Roy and Oden’s health, there is no issue more important to the teams future success than Bayless developing into a starter. Bayless needs to work on his defense, his shooting, and his decision making, and he can’t do it from the bench.
This isn’t a breathtaking move, but it shows that KP is paying attention. The team had largely outgrown both Blake and
Trout. Bayless needs time on the floor, and the team desperately needed defensive help on the inside.
Thanks to Steve and Trout for their part in bringing the team back. Good luck to both guys.
by upper left corner on Feb 16, 2010 8:42 AM PST reply actions
This fulfills two of the Blazers' most pressing needs...
Make the playoffs this year to get the post-season experience they will need to take advantage of the championship window now opening for this young team
and….
breaking two log jams—one at PF/SF and the other at PG.
Great move KP.
Is it a measure of how far KP has fallen the we have gone this far without
a single “Pritchslap” reference.
lol what a bad trade
i hear marcus cambys not to happy about it either. thats gotta be a low blow when a guy would rather play for the clippers than your organization….good luck
ps kd
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
Typical L*ker troll.
Enjoy your short stay here.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism. For the record, it’s my least favorite quality, and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they would get. But, if you work hard and you’re kind, I’m telling you, amazing things will happen."
-Conan O'Brien
I really hate to see Blake and Outlaw both leave.
Yet I’ve been wondering when it would happen. Both Blake and Outlaw were roadblocks to the development and court time of their counterparts. I’m relieved we’re getting someone who’s not going to be on the roster next season though. That is a huge accomplishment for KP and his sfaff.
So, other than the emotional attachment you get after seeing a guy on your team for so many seasons (Outlaw since he was drafted), this is a good deal.
Who knows, KP might re-sign one of them during the summer (not likely I know) but one can hope.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
I will miss Travis
He was one of my favorite players. I hope that after this year, he signs with a good team that plays a faster style of ball. I look forward to seeing him in the all-star game.
maybe it's as much about player assessment?
aside from the obvious attempt at rent-a-center for a playoff push, could this trade be as much about clearing space to do some roster assessment over the rest of the season as well?
no more blake would seem to mean consistently more minutes available for bayless/rudy. not that outlaw has been playing, but when he came back he was probably going to take minutes at the 3 and 4, decreasing batum, webster, possibly rudy as well.
i’d think along with advancing deeper in the playoffs, part of the blazers realistic goals for this season was to learn more about what we had on our roster. since advancing deeper in the playoffs is a risky proposition at this point, doing a little more assessment on the value and fit of our assets is a good move.
throw in a center to maybe help make a run for a playoff spot, at no long term cost, and why not do it? it makes sense to me.
oh, and thanks paul allen for putting out the $’s to get this done…once again. gotta love our owner.
by 77revisited on Feb 16, 2010 11:05 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah
and good luck trout and steve…thanks for the hard work!
by 77revisited on Feb 16, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like your optimism
I used to be like that. Carefree, optimistic, always looking on the bright side, trusting the players and management.
Then I spent three years commenting on Blazersedge. Doin’ that much time wears a man down. He don’t know who to trust no more, and all he know is ya gotta hate if you’re gonna survive trade deadlines, the draft, the playoffs, and free agency.
It ain’t easy doing time on Blazersedge and it ain’t for the faint of heart.
If hatin' Miller is wrong, I don't want to be right - Andre Miller Sucks Forum - Trade Andre Miller Now
by tominhawaii on Feb 16, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wikipedia
I was attending college in Boston while Camby was at UMass, and everybody thought that he was one of best college players in the country at the time.
Camby’s wikipedia page is already updated to show that he is a Blazer.
In case some of you young folks don’t remember the 90’s, Camby got into some trouble in college: (from the aforementioned Wikipedia entry)
UMass’ visit to the Final Four was later officially nullified by the NCAA because Camby had been found to have accepted $28,000 from two sports agents. According to a 1997 Sports Illustrated article, the agents, John Lounsbury and Wesley Spears of Connecticut, had hoped that Camby would hire them to represent him when he became a professional. The article reported that Camby had also received “jewelry, rental cars and prostitutes” from the agents.
by unblindloyalty on Feb 16, 2010 11:36 AM PST reply actions
Freeing up the rotations
We simply had too many people at those positions. What this does is it strengthens a position of need and sends a signal to Bayless/Miller/Batum/Webster that YOU are the guys. The rotations now are set, which hopefully will create confidence and minimize any concerns going forward. Webster especially was probably looking over his shoulder, and Bayless knew that his going in was dependent on whether Blake was “feeling it” or not.
Camby will help us scratch out the 8th or 7th seed in the playoffs. I want the Blazers to get all the playoff experience they can.
For these reasons, the playoff experience and the clearer rotations, and the votes of faith in Webster/Bayless, I like this trade. Thanks and good luck to Travis and Blake.
well then...
Blake has long been under rated and under appreciated by portland fans. A write up above said that “teams had given up on blake”. In fact portland actively attempted to get him back from denver, and denver was upset at losing him, or at least Karl was.
Outlaw has long been frustrating. This season he started doing EVERYTHING I’ve ever wanted from him. He went down and the team started losing a few games. I felt that it showed the impact that Travis had that wasn’t appreciated by people, including myself.
I like Travis, and I’m sad to see him go. If he ends up being the player we saw at the beginning of the season, I think I’ll regret this trade. If he ends up being the player of the year before, then I think it’s best for the blazers. As for Travis, I strongly suspect he’ll excel in an environment where he can get some minutes. I don’t know if the clippers are that team, but he’s a free agent at the end of the season anyway.
As for Camby… injury prone…defensive… a short term solution/band-aid.
So what does this do? Clearly it frees up Guard position minutes. It’ll prevent Travis from log jamming other positions and may be a sign that Webster and Batum are the winners. I suspect eventually a trade for Webster will happen as well with Batum continuing to grow.
It will fill up the center position where we’re weak and put guys back on the bench but less on the bench that Travis would have put them.
I think the Clippers and fans will be happy with Outlaw (if he plays and if he gets minutes). Blake is blake. Still, the sting of losing Camby where they spent a ton of money on him… for nothing… (well, I’m sure they consider outlaw nothing)… will likely sting a bit. Not only that, but both contracts expire so they’ll be left with, literally, nothing. Wait… didn’t they get paid 1.5m? No consolation to the fans, i’m sure but the ownership will likely appreciate it.
I think the blazers will be happy with Camby as long as he brings a good attitude and work ethic and hungers to win. He definitely brings elements of the game the blazers need.
This wasn’t a splashy move, but in the end I think it was a good one. A sign and trade with Camby and webster or Rudy or miller can now be done allowing for further consolidation of potential for something tangible. Or… blazers sit pat. Either way I think the blazers are ahead here in the short term and with a couple of cards they could play a little further out if they wanted to.
Here’s hoping Camby will be okay playing here. Here’s hoping that he’ll fit in with the team. Here’s hoping that Outlaw and Blake land on their feet in a happy situation.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Not to be cruel, but....
….it is hard to make a case that a player with a PER of 11 is undervalued. Many might argue that Blake has been overvalued by Nate, and by fans who seem oblivious to statistical measures.
by upper left corner on Feb 17, 2010 12:23 AM PST up reply actions
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