'Dre Madness!!!
by blazerbeliever97504 on Dec 19, 2010 4:17 PM PST
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On the heels of tons of Andre Miller trade rumors i felt like i needed help from the Bedge community in understanding just what the heck people are thinking regarding trading Miller. Let me offer a few clafifying questions, Who is our most reliable back court player? Miller. Who is playing in top form right now? Miller, Mathews, LMA, Camby. Who makes the offense go when so often it has stalled? Miller.
We would trade him for a big man? Then what? Armon Johnson runs the point? Patty Mills? Psh! Of the above questions Roy's name should be listed every time, it is not.....Miller's is. Roy has become the poster child for "dont give players with health questions max money." Roy is a great player, WHEN HEALTHY. We all know by now, if everyone could stay healthy we are as talented as anyone......i am sick of this line of thinking. We ARE NOT healthy, have not been as a team for several years. Injuries have plagued this team and all but shut the window we thought we had at one time to make a run. So how does it make sense to trade one of the few players we have that has proven he can actually stay healthy? It doesn't.
I am curious, has anyone noticed Andre is having a phenominal year so far? Let me remind you, 27gp 27gs 13.2ppg 7.2apg 1.93spg %45fg %88FT. I'll take that all day long. Matthews and Miller make a good back court. Miller and Roy do not. Matthews is dependable Roy is not. Roy has yet to play a full 82 game season and seems to be headed towards the recycle bin. Miller just plugs along and has the aspiration to play until he is 40. Roy will be lucky to be playing until 32. Some may say Roy is younger, yes he is but i would bet that Miller is going to play more games in the next 2-3 years than Roy will.
Its a sad time for Blazer fans, our prospective "big three" we thought would take us places can't seem to get off the trainers table and into the game save for LMA. By the way, LMA is also having his best year of his career for the record. Haters gonna hate as they say. This is all a bunch of knee jerk madness if you ask me. Trading Miller would be an Epic mistake unless it returns a young elite PG, which it wont. Please people, stop the madness!!
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you're missing the point
it doesn’t matter who plays PG the rest of the year. We aren’t going anywhere with this roster. Before the year, the thought was to make a tweak here or there to make a contender. Guess what? We aren’t even close anymore. It’s rebuilding time, and you don’t rebuild around 35 year old starters, no matter how good a year they are having.
If you can get younger, quality players for veterans like Miller and Przybilla, then you look to do it. That’s what this is about
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Dec 19, 2010 4:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Younger we can get
Quality on par with hopes to contend….probably not. My fear here is that Dre probably gets traded for some guy that’s nothing more than average and will have knee trouble after the first 20 games.
I really hope I’m not predicting the future there.
that reminds me of the reasons Philly let him go
look where that got them…
Dunk
by Billy Ray Bates on Dec 20, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
That's not a reason not to do it
just because it didn’t work out in one instance
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Quality on par with hopes to contend….probably not.
thats what my point was. You just dont trade away a guy who is reliable at a position we are thin at already. I could see it if we still had Bayless, trade Miller…..give Bayless some run…..i get that. But trade Miller and tank the season, i just dont buy that. Make no mistake, if we trade miller and dont get equal value talent wise the season will tank.
by blazerbeliever97504 on Dec 19, 2010 4:51 PM PST reply actions
You have to look beyond this year. The best we do this year is 8th and then get pounded by LA in the first round.
This team needs to rebuild and it’s going to take a couple of years to do that. Miller is not going to play any part on that rebuilt team. Neither is Camby. They have some trade value now, but in 2 years (assuming we pick up the option year on Miller’s contract) neither of them will have much, if any, trade value left. So the sooner we move them the more we are likely to get for them, particularly if you can find an opportunity to move them to a playoff team looking for help, maybe because of injuries, this year.
Miller is in a particularly good situation for a trade, because the team that gets him will have the option of just letting him go at the end of the year (if for instance he was replacing an injured player this year) or keeping him for another year if they choose. Camby also has a good tradable contract because it has only one year beyond this one and he still has plenty of legs (when not injured) for another year.
So now is the time to try and maximize the return we can get on Miller and Camby.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 19, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It would surprise me...
… if we got anything for them that we would even fit on a team hoping to contend. Trading good players for average players that we will have to ditch later anyway…just sounds like a pain.
Better to extend Dre and Camby a year and see what chance we have on the back side of the lockout. Short contracts are easy enough to manage and expiring contracts will still have value later on.
That being said, if we can get first rate young talent to develop I’m all for it. More than likely we’ll have to trade for some seasoned vets again when we decide to make a run.
It would surprise me…
… if we got anything for them that we would even fit on a team hoping to contend
Do you think you will get more for them when they are a year older?
Rebuilding is all about amassing assets until you can make a great deal (Cho knows that – which is why he said you sometimes do deals now that lead to bigger deals later). It is unlikely you will ever get a franchise player in a player-forced trade if you are Portland and not NY, Chicago. LA, or Miami, etc. – destinations that attract those players when they demand to be traded. You can get a franchise player through free agency, but you have to be way ($15M-$20M) under the salary cap (not too likely for us in the near future) and have to be a preferred destination (again not likely Portland).
I think the best chance for us to get a franchise player is in the draft – either with a top 5 pick or by trading a high draft pick to another team that wants to change horses because of some fit issue. So amassing a combination of 1st round picks (now or future) and throwing in good but not star players is a good strategy to move up into the top 5 in a draft (maybe not this year but perhaps next). For instance, suppose we pick up someone’s middle 1st round pick for Miller or Camby (it may a 3rd team’s pick), and we finish in the middle of the lottery (instead of limping into an 8th place playoff spot), and we get lucky and NO fades into the lottery. We could go into the draft with 3 lottery picks and a good GM can do a lot with that kind of ammunition.
You can’t predict all the possibilities, but the worse thing you can do is finish in the middle of the pack for several years and watch your veterans grow old. That is a certain prescription for years of future mediocrity.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 19, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt one year will make a lot of difference
Do you think you will get more for them when they are a year older?
Miller is in the middle of a very nice year and the difference between completely sucking and possibly going to the playoffs. Even extending him for another year and holding onto his still expiring contract probably won’t be worth much less then whatever scrubs they trade him for. Picks would need to be 2012 probably and I guess I can see that.
The only thing that could really doom us to years of mediocrity would be if Brandon can’t get his legs back under him but still has to hang around on the cap space. PA’s wallet affords us a good amount of talent in Portland as long as we don’t have contracts that tie us down without benefit.
The only thing that could really doom us to years of mediocrity would be if Brandon can’t get his legs back under him but still has to hang around on the cap space.
That’s the reality we must now deal with … It’s a new ballgame. What we thought a few months ago is gone. We need to let this year go and not miss the opportunity we have now to change a bleak looking future.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 20, 2010 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
I definitely see what you are saying
but there is a certain point of diminishing returns. It really will depend more on what teams feel they need at the deadline, that will determine what they are willing to give up for a Miller or a Camby.
If the right offer comes up it will be taken. Cho is in wait and see mode at this point, teams aren’t certain what peices they need for their final push…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
If the right deal comes up I'm definitely for it
I’m just a bit nervous with the whole Dre/Roy thing and a new GM. I feel there is a serious chance of major error here. Too many subplots moving around the situation.
If they do move Dre I hope I’m pleasantly surprised instead of completely disgusted.
We can't not act out of fear of error
I share your concerns…a bonehead trade is a bonehead trade, but I don’t think we move these guys without getting young assets or more first round draft picks in return.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
has anyone noticed Andre is having a phenominal year so far? Let me remind you, 27gp 27gs 13.2ppg 7.2apg 1.93spg %45fg %88FT.
3 words: sell when high
I’m as big a Miller honk as anyone, and I sure don’t want to see ‘Dre dumped for dreck. The optimal time to flip Andre is to a contender who has lost their starting PG for a long period of time. That’s when their season is desperately sick and you’re holding the antidote.
Fans never want to see a player who’s performing at a high level ever be traded, just like the call always goes out to move a high-priced player who is suddenly injured. The front offices that survive and succeed won’t succumb to this artificial sense of urgency. They’ll keep their powder dry and swoop in when the deal is right, and stare down the critics, afterwards.
That’s what KP did re: Camby last year, and it’s what I’m hoping Cho will do when the opportunity presents itself, this winter.
Parting shot: there’s no reason to overlook replacing the head coach when it comes to cranking up another youth movement, either.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Dec 19, 2010 6:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Werd up love dre but rip city>any player
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
by TyboOSU on Dec 19, 2010 10:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Also...
I think a lot of people would agree with you that it would be better to trade Roy before Andre but with his knees and contract, that’ll be almost impossible. Roy’s practically untradable while Andre is infinitely tradable (consistent, good veteran with a non-gauranteed contract for next year…) So if we were able to get a young starting point gaurd (or Steve Nash of course) than I think it’s a move we should make. Guys like Lawson from Denver or Nelson from Orlando now that they have Arenas..or maybe Felton from the Knicks? I don’t know, but I agree with two4larue…sell high.
I agree actually with what you all are saying.....
its the rumors of Miller being traded for a big that makes me have to say that this is madness. I could easily see and would love to see a trade for a PG and a Big…..Joel and Dre for Jameer Nelson and Brandon Bass for example. But i think the likelyhood of a good trade is small. I DO NOT think we should just trade him for a big man because ours cant stay healthy.
In short i am not against moving him but i think the drama/ rumors have gotten out of control and it needed to be said. I guess the last thing i want to see is a Bayless/Webster style trade in where we get next to nothing back, or a piece that makes us worse. In my eyes losing a VERY good point guard on an offensively challenged team is more detrimental than gaining another good(Gortat for ex.) big.
by blazerbeliever97504 on Dec 19, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure...
…a 1st round pick is nothing (for Bayless). Especially when we had 4 PGs on the roster.
I think the philosophy that we might stockpile picks and then use them to target early first round talent is an interesting one
choose the right guys and the future may be looking a lot brighter (and then if Greg comes back….lol)
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Webster and Bayless trades
said more about our cap situation rather than what the org thought of the players talents, not really moves the org really wanted to do but felt they needed to do, so getting something workable back, or an asset in terms of draft pick was just fine.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Not Ready to give up on the season yet
I understand what everyone is saying in the comments, but I agree with the original poster. I’m of the mind to improve for today, and see what we can get for some of our subs, like Przybilla. In a 7 game series, with LMA, Camby, Miller, Matthews and someone else, I’d like to see what that team could do.
Yeah same here
Especially after seeing how different the team plays with Brandon resting his knees.
I share this outlook
Just blowing it up for the future, particularly facing an unknown landscape with the new CBA after the lockout, seems like the worng move. If you can make some moves that strengthen what we have good, if not….
It is all about value at this point in time.
The one thing I do not want to see is a bunch of complimentary pieces be brought in for BRoy unless we know he can return to form. If we are simply hoping he can return to form, then it is the wrong move.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
You should forget about Camby in your calculations - if you have them
He’s not going anywhere. He said he intends to retire after his next/last season with the Blazers. That’s a message to the whole wide world that he won’t let himself be moved. It’s like a no-trade clause that went unwritten, yet eveeryone knows it. If we offered him the chance to play out his contract with San Antonio or Miami as part of a trade he might go for it. Otherwise I suspect Joel P. is likely to as not to get traded.
I really enjoy watching Andre Miller play. When he is in playing I relax and know that he will do mostly the right thing. Don’t forget Andre’s 52 point game against Dallas Jan. 30th 2010. He is a very special man besides. He plays the right way. I’ll be disappointed when he gets traded….we are lucky to have him.
agreed
but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be looking at options if he has value around the league
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
All I keep hearing is that we should trade Miller to a Playoff caliber team
that has lost their PG to injury but those cirumstances don’t happen very often. Teams not looking to make the Playoffs aren’t going to want an old PG no matter how good he still is certainly not over the possibility of youth. What options does that leave is with? I am afraid that the best that we’ll get is an average player on a good contract or a good player with a bad contract.
One idea is to trade Miller and Pyrzbilla for Monta Ellis, we’ll not get a better player than Ellis IMO.
we?
I am thinking that we kinda stink, and that we kinda have 0.0002% chance of winning a Championship with our current roster, and about 99.998% of that 0.0002% chance is divied up bout 50/50 in one of Roy’s knees…. and and the rest in Odens… so…
There were reasons cowboys shot their poor broken legged horses….
sometimes it’s better to just start over and know you’ve got to teach a new horse to be ridden rather than re-teach a gimppy horse… in all reality? the gimppy horse don’t stand a chance. so why wait?
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Miller's skills, or lack of range, doesn't make
him, in my opinion, that valuable, or as valuable as I once thought. If he had missed a couple of those 15 footers the game might of ended differently last night. Teams definitely sag off him—a couple of times he was forced to shoot because of this. They don’t do this with Fernandez, or Matthews, or, for that matter Mills.
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