Revisiting the Andre Miller signing.
by Blazin' on Dec 14, 2010 3:24 PM PST
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A year and a half ago the Blazers signed Andre Miller to fill an obvious need: We were too easy to defend in the playoffs. A one dimensional, uninspired offense was shown up in the playoffs by Rick Adelman and the Houston Rockets. It was obvious: The Brandon Roy show was not going to get it done. We needed to be more resilient and multi-dimensional.
And so i applauded this move. Get a veteran, a pro, and a playmaker.
But it seems not everyone got the memo. Over a year ago, I was astonished to see the resistance and fumbling with which Nate Mcmillen and Brandon Roy received Andre Miller.
It was then that i made this post: http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/10/23/1098192/how-nate-and-brandon-both-flailed
It was clear that there were leadership and ego issues that, if not confronted, would persist and create difficulties. Someone needed to sit BRoy down and explain to him that the style of play of the '08-'09 team was fundamentally flawed. And that he needed to adapt his game with the strategic post-season needs of the team in mind.
Well guess what? A full year has passed. And nothing has changed. THE CONVERSATION THAT NEEDED TO HAPPEN WITH BRANDON ROY A FULL YEAR AGO STILL HAS NOT HAPPENED. BRANDON IS STILL BEHAVING LIKE A SPOILED TEENAGER. In terms of chemistry and leadership, we are still in the same place a full season later!
Instead these very issues, the resistance and turf struggles, have persisted, morphed, and grown to a level of intractability that is remarkable. Obviously the injuries have created an embattled environment. But the leadership deficit was going to play out one way or the other. How was this missed?
There is a life lesson here. Pushing off confronting one's self seldom pays dividends. And humans, sadly, will point a finger at everything/one but themselves.
And to all of you BEdgers who have been so dismissive and condescending when I have tried to raise these issues, do you think now its time to take off the jackboot?
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Well they forgot to get the low-post scorer to complement the new PG
Even now they keep dreaming and hoping and dreaming Greg Oden is going to come back and lead them to a championship. Cho, just get a scoring center or just get out.
Fundamentally flawed
is your analysis. If you have an excellent penetrator, like Roy, why would you trade for a barely middling mid-range shooter? Miller is very talented but Roy is right when he says that teams don’t respect Miller’s mid-range shot, let alone anything more than fifteen feet, that the player guarding miller is free to double, triple team Roy. In addition to this, MacMillan apparently hasn’t made any adjustments to accommodate this defensive trend, other than posting Miller up against smaller point guards—nothing special there.
Cho realizes this and that’s why, according to Cazano, he tried to get the excellent shooter Crawford from Atlanta.
Disturbingly, it is apparent to me that Miller has no respect for Roy or McMillan and seems to blow up plays regularly on court. To be fair, Roy retaliates against Miller by doing the same thing.
This team is suffering from “expectation” fatigue. They have consistently exceeded expectations and now this year isn’t turning out so good and a lack of chemistry and maturity(lack of a good year when a good one is expected) is making itself felt.
Yeah
If you have an excellent iso player like Roy (cough Paul Pierce cough), how would it even be possible to run an effective offense with a PF who can’t shoot?
cmon... Miller's nowhere near Rondo
#8 - #5 - #88
by collectiveshane on Dec 15, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
2010/11 or 2009/2010 Miller
is plenty close to 2007/2008 Rondo.
The argument would make a lot more sense if Roy was getting double and triple-teamed
If anyone should be complaining, it should be LMA, that Roy won’t nail his open shots. With all his talents, you’d think Roy could figure out how to hit the corner 3, instead of still trying to take his man off the dribble for a mid-range jumper. Or Miller and Matthews could lament that they have to make up for Roy on perimeter D.
Teams don’t respect Rondo’s shot; how did that team even make it to the finals with a PG that can’t hit jumpers OR free throws? Granted, they have the big 3, and I don’t expect us to do that well, but c’mon!
As far as “expectation fatigue” goes, you have a point, but the only guy who seems to be complaining about chemistry is Roy. Miller, Camby, LMA, and Matthews all play well together, although Aldridge struggles against some matchups. If Roy wants to dictate personnel and playing style, then he needs to be a leader and a professional about this instead of placing thinly-veiled blame on his teammates for his own lack of athleticism.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
LMA
shouldn’t complain about being double teamed because he rarely passes to cutters which Batum, Matthews and even Mills do all the time, and he never gives the ball up on the give and go in the low post. LMA consistently refuses to pass across court to open players on the weak side (I know he sees them) because I think he’s terrified that he’ll commit a turnover. In general this team is afraid to risk turnovers to hit open players (even Miller I’ve seen turn down chances of getting a pass to open players—even when they’re nearly under the basket!). I think LMA would be a great player is he was given permission to be so: there are too many cooks in this kitchen.
I think management is (or is about to) giving up on this season. That’s why they sent Babbit to D leauge (why not if MacMillan wasn’t going to play him); why they are asking about Crawford; and why they’re trying to trade for first round picks.
LMA shouldn’t complain about being double teamed because he rarely passes to cutters and he never gives the ball up on the give and go in the low post.
Rarely is a better choice of words than never. LMA has surprised me this season with his passing skills (probably against the weaker defensive teams…) He’s got a long ways to go, but if you watch every possession you’ll see he occasionally makes the right read and will feed a cutter on the move for a lay-in
LMA consistently refuses to pass across court to open players on the weak side (I know he sees them) because I think he’s terrified that he’ll commit a turnover
How can you be sure that he sees them? I agree that LMA is not as willing to make the risky pass as Camby and some other big men. I’m not sure that he’s “terrified” but he doesn’t have the greatest court vision or anticipation. Some of that is due to the offense that he’s playing in. If you watched the Spurs play the other night, their players could anticipate where the open man would be, because their sets are conceived and executed well. Portland’s system is helter-skelter so it takes an extra split second for the passer to locate an open teammate. That hesitation is all that it takes for a superior team defense to close the passing lane and further confuse the ball handler.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think having Camby around
and Buck as a coach is forcing LMA to tranform his game, I see his poor numbers this season compared to prior sseasons as a result of that. He is out of his comfort zone, lets see if he can get this new mentality working for him.
Personally I like this version of LMA better than pick and pop only LMA. LMA is not the problem right now.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
That's exactly right
I’m so sick and tired on hearing this “Miller can’t shoot” crap as it relates to the rest of the team’s success. As I’ve pointed out before, Avery Johnson, Mo Cheeks and Dennis Johnson have all won championships without have ANY range on their shot. You bring up the example of Rondo – who is one of the best PG’s in the NBA – despite the fact that he is a well below average shooter. Blaming Miller’s lack of range as causation for Roy’s problems is ABSURD.
Besides, Miller draws double teams when he drives in the post, which frees up the perimeter guys somewhat. That’s exactly how Rondo is able to dish it to open men; by driving and kicking. We also supposedly have a ton of shooters on the team, including Wesley, Fernandez, Roy, Mills, Batum and LMA from 20 feet. We shouldn’t need the PG to launch from three necessarily. Having a Hinrich or Blake type who can “spread the floor” and who can’t penetrate would just give up more of the same stand around offense. Who would pass the ball (well) in this scenario?
Roy’s comments throwing Miller under the bus really burn my behind. Miller is not so ball-dominant that he never gives it up. He’s masterful on the fast break when given the opportunity. He gives up the ball ALL THE TIME to Roy in the high post. McMillan constantly runs plays for him. So why the hell is he blaming Miller for the ‘slow pace’? Having the ball the whole game in Roy’s hands would be a complete disaster for the offense, and things would grind to a total standstill.
Get open Roy, make your shots and Miller WILL FIND YOU. Accept your new found limitations, as painful as that might be.
it was the phoenix game at home he missed, not the Orlando game
My problem is Roy is not trying to work with Miller really at all.
This whole situation just reflects a wider societal issue we face today. Maybe it is not unique to modern workforce, but I can’t imagine it always being like this.
The basic scenario is this, a crisis at work crops up. Everyone then starts to figure out why the crisis arose, running around with their heads cut off. If you are lucky somebody actually steps up and does what is necessary to deal with the crisis.
It always amazes me when a problem arises at work, the full machinery of assessing blame goes into full force while the actually dealing with the situation is handled by one person if you are lucky.
We are no longer capable of dealing with the problem in front of us effectively because we try to assess blame first, or to even figure out why it happened first. Basic crisis management should dictate (once the crisis is occuring):
1. Deal with the problem.
2. Figure out why the problem arose.
3. Figure out how to keep it from happening again.
The Blazers are at a crisis point and aside from matthews, Miller and Camby all we tend to hear is whose fault it is and why there is a problem (no spreading the floor).
My problem with this whole situation is that I hear plenty of blame but see no effort to deal with the situation as it is.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
so true...
I hear so much at work. “oh that is not my mistake”
While that person may not have personally made the mistake it is a team so therefore it is everyone’s mistake.
As far as the Blazers I think I get overly emotional and want to blame Roy more than he deserves. Really it is a 2-way street. Other team mates need to work to compliment Roy but at the same time Roy needs to work harder to compliment his team mates.
witty statement here
Maybe signing Andre Miller
was not the best way to deal with the Blazers’ offensive limitations which was so exposed by Houston. That is not the point.
The point is it was a legitimate attempt to deal with a fundamental flaw of this team as of 2009: Predictable BRoy centered offense down the stretch in playoff games was a recipe for failure.
And how does Andre Miller play? He is creative, unpredictable, and quite effective at making offense happen for others.
He might not be the ideal point guard, but when in life do you get everything to be ideal!?
At the very least, you make an effort to succeed with Miller!
Ugly.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Portland already tried this with Blake in '09 and the Rockets still shut them down
Brandon was physically exhausted after game 6 in Houston and asked the front office for some veteran help
Miller wasn’t their first choice that July, but the starting backcourt had made the adjustment and the team was playing well, last March. They rose to the 6th seed despite all the adversity and appeared to be poised to break through in the first round of the playoffs, and then…
Artest stepped on Roy’s foot and the train derailed. Now all we’re left with is finger-pointing and retrospect analysis. Changes will be made, but not because of Miller’s effect on the ball club in the past 18 months. (Instead, because the plan for the past 5 years needs to be scrapped and the roster reorganized.) But first, the the team needs a new head coach because Nate is not the leader to “start over” with, especially since Brandon will necessarily remain on the roster for the foreseeable future. There’s been too much water gone over the dam
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Miller wasn’t brought in to run the team he was brought in to help run the team.
7 assist a game. I would say that is just what he is doing. Do you want Miller to go out there and average 10+ assist? He isn’t Chris Paul. Such a high usage rate for a player with streaky offense isn’t that efficient unless he is surrounded with spot up shooters and rebounders.
Sadly
I think that the Miller acquisition shows that the Blazer’s were drafting well but without considering what they wanted to do on the court and it burned them because salary issues ‘forced’ their hand in letting Black and Outlaw and the only available player of any skill was Miller.
Blazin, I completely agree with you.
Roy’s a baby. He is a terrible leader. His pride has prevented him from sitting down with Andre Miller, not even one time since he got here. Unbelievable.
I’m sick of wasting my time even thinking about it anymore. Either they deal with Roy or everyone will continue to suffer.
I don’t agree with everything here, but I don’t think there’s any question Brandon needs to be told that he can’t do things the way he used to— we could debate whether Roy had a case a year ago (coming off a fantastic year), but now there’s no debate. At this point, Roy isn’t nearly good enough to be making these kind of statements and to believe everything should be running through him.
hey jk-
this has made being a Blazer fan not so much fun for me. But I have seen some real energy and fight from the Matthews/Miller/Batum/LMA/Camby lineup. And fluidity.
Honestly, don’t you think the team is ready to shed this shackle?
I think if Brandon is sidelined, we win 5-10 more games this season than if he plays as much as he has. It’s not a question of talent, it’s a question of how oppressed the other players are by his play. I know a lot of us fans are oppressed by it.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
I agree, sit Roy
Really would it be that bad to sit Roy for a few months and let him heal. His playt on the court is okay one day then horrible (relatively speaking) for the next three. Maybe we can pull into the luck of the Spurs sit the franchise player and pick up another to team with the first.
It was clear that there were leadership and ego issues
yes, Miller’s ego and dying for being a leader. If that did not piss roy or nate, I dont know what should.
if miller did not cry for his sixth man role and did lead the bench instead of throwing them in order to get started, the blazers would be uprising.
Now, a lot of you see miller becoming a hero. Could you take a step back to see what blazers becomes? Sinking and Sucking.
Roy for MVP
Until miller is not a blazer, I can pretend "I dont hate him "
by chinafansheartroy on Dec 14, 2010 8:57 PM PST reply actions
And now Roy is trying to avoid the 6th man role
The shoe is on the other foot, will Brandon be able to graciously accept this role and “lead the bench”?
I realize that Roy was great from 2006-2008 but right now he’s no better than Miller was when Andre came to Portland in the fall of 2009
It’s no longer true that Portland’s players need to adjust to playing with Roy, or that the front office needs to build the starting lineup around Brandon. The injury to Roy’s knee last April changed that, forever. It’s just taking awhile for Brandon and his fans to come to grips with that reality
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
i hadn't thought of that.
That’s what the post should have been titled: “shoe on the other foot!”
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
He's trying to avoid it? I thought I read somwhere that he'd consider it?
Whatever they have to do to split up Roy and Miller I’m all for it.
Nate said they were thinking about maybe not starting Roy in the 2nd half
it had to do with the 15 minute half-time break, Brandon could stay in the locker-room and warm back up on the exercise bike or re-stretch with one of the trainers
Roy’s response last week was “if I’m going to be the 6th man this year, will I be the 7th man next year?”
Totally backwards conclusion. There have been plenty of NBA teams where the top 5 scorers don’t start the game. Dallas is one of them. Now that Bynum’s back, Odom will (eventually) return to the bench—and it won’t be a “demotion” for Lamar—it’s just P-Jack making the best use of his players
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The 08-09
team was great. BLake/Roy/Batum/LA/Pryz with a bench of Outlaw/Rudy/Sergio/Oden/Frye/Bayless and a sidelined Webster ahh the good old days. All that team needed was another player to develop to all-star level (Oden) Too bad how things have turned out.
great enough
to get smoked by the Houston Rockets in the first round?
Playoff success is success.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
If we are prepared for the 1st game of that series
We win that series. Because after the game 1 blowout, we weren’t going to lose at home, and we almost beat Houston 2x on the road.
#8 - #5 - #88
by collectiveshane on Dec 15, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
you do realize
how young that team was right? Roy was about 24 aldridge 23 batum was a rookie as was oden who was coming off the bench from the microfacture and chipped knee. Oden in 2008-2009 was completely different from the player he was at the start of last year and as poorly as Nic is playing at the moment he is worlds better than he was as a rookie. It was a team that with a tweak here and there would have been competing in WCF for the next several years but the injuries put an end to that.
Yes I do.
Another reason i would not call the 08-09 team “great.”
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
It was a great team
Roy was All-NBA, we had a tremendous bench, all of the comeback victories etc.
That was the funnest season we’ll see in a while.
#8 - #5 - #88
by collectiveshane on Dec 15, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
If it wasn't Miller, it would've been someone else
Brandon isn’t content unless he’s the man. But when your knees are shot, you’re no longer the man. Sadly Brandon appears to lack the self-awareness to grasp this concept.
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
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