The truth about Armon Johnson
The sad truth is that Armon really isn't very good! At least I don't see it. He is young and only fairly athletic so he might make a decent backup PG in the future but right now he has got to be the worst backup PG in the NBA. He was never a good play-maker in college just decent. His 3pt shooting percentage dropped every year in college from .346 to .239 and its not like he took more 3s. He took 81 his freshman year, 90 his sophomore and 71 in his junior year.
I like his strength and his deceptive quickness but he still isn't one to make a difficult pass. To be a top play-making PG, he has to be able to make all sorts of passes and Armon can't. His turnovers are up the past few games and his effectiveness is very nonexistent in the 11 minutes a game that he gets. I find strange that Armon continues to get the playing time but there was none of this kind of treatment by Nate with Bayless. Jerryd's rookie numbers are actually very similar to Armon's.
AST TO STL BLK PF PTS
Bayless 1.5 1.1 0.3 0.0 1.5 4.3
Johnson 1.9 1.6 0.2 0.1 1.3 4.2
So the question is what makes you think that Armon is any good?
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Wow so Armon is the latest target.
The problem we have right now is much bigger than any single player. It is a group of things far less tangible than a person, a skill, or an action. Leadership is in question be it either on the floor or from the staff. Self-doubt has spread through the team like a case of Przybilla stomach flu. This team has seemingly lost its heart, and I don’t think any of our former point guards would be doing any better in this situation right now. They’d be doing just as awfully. Are people really putting us losing four in a row on a rookie, second string PG? Really? When there’s a whole roster of guys underachieving and averaging less than 15 points in the 4th quarter of the last 4 games?
Sure things might not be looking great right now, but look on the bright side. I have liquor.
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 1, 2010 7:37 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Armon is the least of this team's worries.
But also agree with the content of your post. He started the year with good preseason play and the first couple games, and has been a turnover machine ever since.
He's getting more burn
Than Bayless’ rookie year because Armon plays real D. Give the kid a break. When the team looks better so will he. He’ll still make rookie mistakes because…… he’s a rookie, but he will look better than he does now.
by JeffePortland on Dec 1, 2010 7:54 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Nate's gotten into his head, as usual with young players...
I like AJ because (at least before Nate got ahold of him in the summer league) he showed a natural point guard’s ability to run an offense. Very poised, under control, thinking pass first, and playing good D.
As others have pointed out, he could easily have a dozen more assists if any of the bricklayers he throws it to could hit a shot.
His game last night was admittedly putrid… But I do think, especially with a new coach and a “looser” offense (more fast breaks, less rigid control by the coach on every possession), he could thrive…
And seriously, with the sputtering offense of Batum, Camby, Roy… picking on AJ is a little like arranging the deck chairs…
Nate's given Armon more leeway than any rookie of his calibre.
When’s the last time Nate left a rookie in the game for significant minutes after committing 6 turnovers? If anything, it’s favoritism that Armon has gotten as much burn as he has.
"I don't get much. I don't expect much. I don't give much. I'm generally happy with whatever comes my way."
the NBA has a book on AJ, now
He’s playing against the most complicated defenses and the quickest players in the world, so he’s going to have to make adjustments. I think he will eventually, and he’s got Andre to mentor him which is better situation than most young PGs start with (Bayless, Sergio, etc) It was a bad idea for Nate to hand the bench over to a rookie PG in a contending year, but now that the season is going sideways they might as well keep running AJ out there to take his lumps
that’s the only way for young players to really learn how to survive in the association
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Dec 1, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The Blazers should also let Babbitt play to his heart's content
Really…and play Brandon minimal minutes.
Start him but let him play Batum’s former “starter’s” minutes. Keep Batum in there longer.
Let the young guys develop and let Brandon’s knees rest.
Let Camby rest. Let LMA rest.
Seriously, this team is going nowhere this year.
Let the young guys learn.
I doubt that Nate, Rich, or Paul will throw-in the towel on this season until after the trade deadline.
of course the night after I resign myself to watching AJ's on the job training
Nate pulls the plug on it and inserts Patty into the rotation
reality is stranger than fiction
Camby may be getting a rest soon, depending on how his knee feels. I think there’s an unwritten rule that says only 1 Blazer center (or less) can be healthy at the same time
(this rule does not include Sean Marks, BTW)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Babbitt will be a bust.
Not athletic enough to create his own shot in the NBA, too small to play the 4, too slow to guard 3s. He can’t defend either. I’d love to find somebody who would bet me that Babbitt will be a legit NBA player.
"I don't get much. I don't expect much. I don't give much. I'm generally happy with whatever comes my way."
I like Armon
I think he’s learning. He turns it over too much, and maybe a bit too conservative with his passing, but those are both symptoms of the same problem – inexperience.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
Defense.
He stays on his man like glue. A few times during the Philly game he would put pressure on the opposing PG eating up around 6-10 seconds of their shot clock just trying to get setup. Bayless never had those qualities… at least without fouling. Yes, he is a bit turnover prone right now. What exactly do you expect from a 2nd round rookie who was thrust into a backup role with zero NBA experience. He will grow, he will learn.
"Batum must be french for: being at the right place at the right time" -
-StudMuffin15 @ Rufus On Fire
"Juwan "The Clipper Killer" Howard" - Natedog1977 @ ClipsNation
" I would trade our entire team for Brandon Roy"
- Slick4President @ Indy Cornrows
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Dec 1, 2010 9:24 AM PST reply actions
Really?!
the dude was a second round pick who squeaked onto the active roster…and now is playing his way into the regular rotation as a rookie…that is AMAZING! are you kidding me?
some blazer fans are just silly
by SuperFan #7 on Dec 1, 2010 9:49 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
great point!
Armon was selected in the second round and beat out bayless during training camp. Bayless was drafted #11 overall and couldn’t break the rotation for meaningful minutes in 2 years, then got beat out by a second round draft pick! My wife loved JB and was sad to see him go but I wasn’t. The Hammer is better for the Blazers in the long run because he at least looks to pass the ball before he shoots.
FIRE NATE AND BLOW UP THE TEAM! (Save Aldridge and Matthews)
JB would be nice for right now
but it remains to be seen if the Bayless trade is good for us long term
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
If you ask me if Armon is qualified to be the backup PG on an NBA team....
The answer is definitely not; but it’s not his fault. This is squarely on the shoulders of Cho, Miller and PA for allowing this situation to develop. There was no need to trade Bayless except they want to put so money in the till. The end result is a team with a 34/35 year old player and one injury away from Armon at the point. What a screw-up.
There was no need to trade Bayless except they want to put so money in the till
and because your favorite NBA owner wanted to keep Patty Cakes on the roster
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Well, you know me a little by now
but just what is the PA’s connection to Patty Mills. Is it psychological, emotional, financial? Only the Shadow knows.
KP said PA likes watching small/quick PGs, last year about this time
it was a very revealing peek behind the curtain that explains much about the Blazer draft choices for the past 20 years
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, that seems likely
though in retrospect it’s been an awful decision in it’s effect on the team. Cho always talks about making the right decisions for the team (especially with respect to Rudy’s trade demands) but the evidence shows the opposite.
It's too soon to tell whether the Bayless trade was a good or bad move
you can’t just write it off as a bad decision because we’re on a 4 game losing streak marked by abyssmal shooting right now
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
No one is
What I’m saying is the trade left us without a competent backup at the PG position. That was a mistake and is contributing to our problems now. You have to disagree or agree on that basis, not based upon whether we’re on a losing streak. But don’t you think we need a backup PG?
I agree with you
but there are people on this site people who have already made their determinations on whether that trade was good or bad period. Armon has not been a good backup PG so far. It’s one of the multiple positions that this team needs improved play from.
I just think overall on this site there is an insane lack of perspective….maybe we’ve been spoiled by two winning seasons and now we feel entitled to success all the time, but the fans need to man up. I come on here and see a bunch of whining and finger pointing and general crybabyness. The fact of the matter is our pillars aren’t what we thought they’d be and the team has been playing poorly, leading to a 8-9 start. We want to take 1 or 2 or 5 games and extrapolate it to the big picture of this franchise, and that’s just not how sports work. This is in no way directed at you…just general venting. It makes me sad how little support there is for the team at present time, how few people think we can turn it around and play better, how many people think Nate is completely incompetent. I disgusts and saddens me. What happened to supporting the team through tough times? I’m thankful for the level headed posters who can keep perspective. I think your posts lately have been excellent btw.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
It would be fine if SOMETHING was working....
But the 4th quarter collapses against pretty mediocre teams is not easy to swallow.
Oh I understand and share the frustration, I watch every game (not that other people don't)
but to extrapolate the issues of a 4 game losing streak the way we do doesn’t seem prudent to me. What are we accomplishing? Cho has his hands full but he is a very smart and measured man, everyone in the organization is aware of the struggles…I just don’t see where freakout mode is an attractive option to people. I mean, I get why, I just don’t get why…ya know?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
You may not realize it
but people with influence on the Blazers, both inside and outside the team, read these posts. It’s not important for them to agree with you but eventually they will get the message that fans are holding them accountable for a good product. The Bayless is example of management without regard to the team’s success and fans should let the Blazers know that is not gonna be OK in the long run.
I'm very glad that we have some influence
which is why I feel that we have a responsibility to keep perspective, not give-in to knee jerk reactions, etc…How do we know that the Bayless trade doesn’t sacrifice a little short term success for long term success? That’s my point. We don’t know if it was a good move for the organization yet…I trust that Cho made the move for a reason. You are already writing it off based on the first 17 games of this season, that is not the big picture for this franchise. Would it be nice to have Bayless right now? Of course it would. But we have yet to see the full sequence of events triggered by that move.
I understand the Bayless perspective more than calling Nate completely incompetent, calling for the team to tank it with no CBA in place for next season (aka awful draft class), etc…
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Good points Sammy...
Until we know what we get with the pick, we can’t judge the trade. (Well, we can, but it’s like calling the steak best ever without taking a bite… which is fine if your wife cooked it..but I digress)
The Bayless trade was clearly about turning a logjam into a future opportunity (as was Martell).
There is no way this team should tank it… but we need to make some moves this year…
How do we know that the Bayless trade doesn’t sacrifice a little short term success for long term success?
This is revisionist. The trade was made at the end of fall camp. At that time there was no reason to believe that the season would not end in a post season berth, and the stated goal was get past the first round of the playoffs. There was no upside re: dealing Bayless for a draft choice when the roster had no other backup PG with more than a few minutes of NBA experience
You’re hoping that the front office made the right decision and they will come out smelling like a rose, sometime down the road. But if you look back to 2008, the team traded Jarrett Jack and Josh McRoberts for the ability to select Bayless in the lottery; Jerryd has now been flipped 2+ years later for a mid-late first round draft choice and a trade exception. These are not forward-thinking decisions that lead to championships, they’re just redecorating the 8-15 spots on the roster with smaller contracts and players with average upside
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nobody on the team liked Jerryd.
With the litany of injuries, our team needs some enthusiasm.
Patty is great for that. He also helps to keep Rudy happy. They are friends.
Too often i was frustrated watching JB hog the ball, drive the lane with his head down.
His T-Rex arms don’t help. I’m glad he’s gone. Never liked ’em.
The irony is that Mills and Johnson are now the young 'upside' to root for this season.
We’re pretty much seeing what Batum, Matthews, and Cunningham are going to be.
Sad commentary. KP was overrated. That’s Depression talking, but it’s probably right.
"I don't get much. I don't expect much. I don't give much. I'm generally happy with whatever comes my way."
Hahaha
We have our scapegoat this year.
Hurray!! I was starting to get worried we wouldn’t find one before the quarter pole of the season.
I think Nate is king scapegoat
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Armon Johnson is not a good PG
So what you ought to be asking yourself is, why are the Blazers continuing to play rookies instead of filling out the roster with cheap, steady veteran backup point guards whose production is limited but who are much less likely to have four turnovers in 11 minutes? I can think of a couple of possible reasons. Number one: Those guards won’t sign in Portland because they don’t want to have to try to put up with an overcontrolling coach. Number two: The Blazers are biding their time and don’t have a “win now” mentality, so they figure they can get by on an inexperienced point guard with limited skills.
All the GMs that let Johnson slip into the second round weren’t wrong. It’s just our thin roster and lack of options that’s responsible for him getting so much run.
Those guards won’t sign in Portland because they don’t want to have to try to put up with an overcontrolling coach.
Earl Watson signed on to play for Jerry Sloan and behind D-Will. In Salt Lake City. For 1.3 mil
The Blazers are biding their time and don’t have a "win now" mentality, so they figure they can get by on an inexperienced point guard with limited skills.
The stated goal heading into this season was to advance past the first round of the playoffs. And yet the backup PGs on the opening day roster (Mills & Johnson) had a combined 38 minutes of NBA regular season game experience. This was before the news about Oden and Roy’s knees. Let’s not apply revisionist history to shortsighted roster decisions made in late October with the convenient lens of what transpired during November.
It’s just our thin roster and lack of options that’s responsible
The sad thing is that it didn’t need to be this way. There was no rush to flip Bayless. Sure, he and Rudy were going to be unhappy about their PT but it wasn’t but a week afterwards and Fernandez tweaked his back. Then Roy’s knee flared up. After all of the injuries in 2009 you’d think that keeping an extra veteran around wouldn’t be too much to ask. But even if the front office felt they “had” to deal Jerryd right then, the least they could do was to go out and find a veteran PG to replace him with (after after all, they acquired veteran big men like Oberto and Marks to replace Pendergraph…) But, no. They kept Mills AND Johnson, when only 1 young/developing PG per playoff-bound roster was really necessary.
Nate wanted AJ more than Bayless
Paul Allen wanted to keep Patty Mills
Cho knew he had to carve out playing time for Rudy
The bench is looking pretty woeful now, because of these competing agendas
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I dont think Armon should be a scapegoat, nor do I think hes impossibly awful
However, he has incredible problems making good passes in a timely manner. He telegraphs his passes like none other too. Almost every single game you can see Rudy wide open literally jumping up and down waving his arms, and still Armon doesnt notice him until after a guy runs to pick him up, he also turns it over an ungodly amount. In all reality he would be a 3rd string project on most teams in the league.
BUT! His D is solid, I dont think alot of people can deny that. He also is extremelly athletic and big enough to not be taken advantage of by bigger guards. He has potential but this post is correct in saying hes one of the worst backups at PG in the league. Its just we have NO other PG, and no one else on the team runs the point even remotely well in the full court. So for now, lets hope he builds on his potential with this playing time, its not liek hes taking someone elses minutes.
Just checked basketball reference.com
Armon has a Offensive rating of 86…. thats awful beyond recognition… he needs ALOT of work before anyone can call him a good PG.
For comparison – Rudy is at 110
125.
Offensive Rating should always be looked at along with usage %— O Rating should be thought of as how many points a player produces per 100 possessions and its much more difficult to have a high O Rating with a high usage.
CP3 and Armon have relatively similar usages. Rudy’s is significantly lower. Point still stands that Armon’s season offensive numbers are truly horrendous thus far.
Blow it up.
Ortg is one of Many stats Found under "advanced stats" section
Its at the very bottom of the players page
Thanks Jacob. I originally typed basketballreference.com (without the hyphen)
and it redirected to databasebasketball.com. I’m at the right site now and see the Ortg stat.
Sergio had a spotty jumper
but of course he and Rudy had that Spanish mo-jo
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
They would do well to sign a veteran backup pg.
To rely on Armon as the backup is ridiculous. He’s obviously not ready.
Get a steady hand in there to run the backup pg and then put Armon in situations where he can be successful (such as making a defensive stop at the end of quarters). The way he is being used now is going to kill his confidence and possibly stunt his growth.
how was that Dickauer guy? He keeps saying he wants to play and is on Talking Ball
lately. He played for the Blazers in the past.
Dan Dickau?
Good in college; not that good in NBA, and too old to attempt a NBA resurrection. He’s a Vancouver guy so local people root for him, but there’s a reason why he was traded eight times over a six-year NBA career. At this point in his life, his playing time is going to be in the d-league or euro teams.
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
No better than Travis Diener at this point.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Rajon Rondo liked Mills
quite a bit, actually
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Maybe Mills can take guys to the hole, get out on the break, and gamble for enough steals to make up for his profound defensive liabilities.
You never know. They need somebody to give them an emotional spark and some offensive fire power.
"I don't get much. I don't expect much. I don't give much. I'm generally happy with whatever comes my way."
I think Mills did well enough defensively on wall to suggest
that is defense is not as bad as people decided it was (based on his being 6’0) rather than actually watching him guard guys.
In fact for most of the 1st half when he was on Wall directly, he got the better of him.
And he got a call against him that probably should have been a no-call or gone the other way.
You could be right. I hope he gets more playing time so we can find out.
"I don't get much. I don't expect much. I don't give much. I'm generally happy with whatever comes my way."
First things first
He is a rookie getting few minutes. Do we have to have this discussion about every single rookie point guard that Nate does not trust enough to give minutes too?
Guess what, if you want a PG to come out of college and be starter ready, you gotta draft in the lottery and you have to draft correctly. Or go back in time and not draft Martell. Otherwise, they will take some time to develop.
He is strong, he is quick, he has the makings of a good defender. Sure his 3pt % isn’t great, but with Brandon being hobbled, I think the spot up corner three is going to become less and less meaning full. His other skills (if they are given the opportunity to develop) may very well make him a starting point guard
by BlazerFanFromDenver on Dec 1, 2010 12:08 PM PST reply actions
Raw rondo to me.
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
by TyboOSU on Dec 1, 2010 12:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Bayless rookie season fetured Sergio as well
that is why Armon is getting more burn than bayless did in his rookie year…no log jam for time…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Comparing Armon Johnson's first 17 games to Jerryd Bayless' entire rookie year...
To compare their statistics with any accuracy, especially with regard to earning playing time, you would have to compare Johnson to Bayless’ first 17 games during his rookie year. That would look like this:
AST TO STL BLK PF PTS
Bayless 1.1 1.0 0.4 0.0 1.0 2.8
Johnson 1.9 1.6 0.2 0.1 1.3 4.2
To me, it looks like Johnson has a very slightly better assist-to-turnover ratio than Bayless did at this point, but more assists and more points. He’s also making more mistakes (see the turnovers column) but they are in proportion to the extra assists and points. And I think a certain amount of learning/mistakes is to be expected from a rookie point guard.
The bottom line, I think, is that McMillan likes the way Johnson plays more than he liked the way Bayless played.
McMillan likes the way Johnson plays more than he liked the way Bayless played.
Cho did Jerryd a favor trading him away from Nate
But the Blazer bench brigade has been missing the spark that Bayless provided
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nate has
no choice but to play Armon. Bayless played with Blake, Sergio and a healthy Roy. People need to stop being in denial about how bad this team is.
Congratulations. This thread officially marks the point that I stop reading fan posts on Blazer's Edge.
Seems pretty benign to me...
You must be the guy driving this here AJ bus…
I thought you were the guy who was driving the AJ bus?
If the Blazers really want to accelerate Armon’s development, they’ll send him to the D-league. Practicing against a tuckered-out Andre and Patty Cakes a coupe days a week is no substitute for playing 30+ mpg for the Stampeeders
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Isn't it funny...
how the “truth” always is negative?
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
The kid has a few bad games and you're ready to make a judgement on his potential career.
Shortsighted doesn’t even begin to cover this post.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Expectations...
I never expected Armon Johnson to lead this team to the promised land. As a rookie, drafted in the second round, so far even with his struggles he’s exceeded my expectations. I hate to bring out the word, but he has potential.
I thought a problem The Blazers have had in recent seasons were too many PG’s sitting on the bench..with Blake, Bayless, Sergio, not enough time to develop anyone.
You pay a price trying to develop almost any rookie PG. But at least Armon is getting the time needed. To an extent, I’d rather know by seasons end exactly what we have in Armon and Mills…than have both languishing on the bench surrounded by the aura of the unplayed player….
I think when you are talking about a rookie, 2nd round draft choice it is unfair to say he’s not very good….you can say he is struggling. But personally despite some obvious areas he needs to improve, I see more to like than dislike.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Robert Pack and Alvin Williams
if AJ has an NBA career like those 2 former Blazer draft choices, then Blazer fans should be well-pleased with the 2010 draft
(Well, depending on what happens with Mssrs Babbitt and Email…)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

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