Abbott: The Unkept Promise Of Greg Oden
* Bumped to front page -- Ben *
Truehoop article about Oden in the off-season. Henry Abbott's least optimistic take on Greg that I have seen. He expresses concern about Greg's mental health, work ethic, and some of his decision making. Definitely worth a read.
over 1 year ago
joelor
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Honestly,
Greg should be traded immediately for listing Two and a Half Men among his top two favorite shows. I couldn’t care less about the injuries, but his taste in TV is unforgivable.
by Foofighting101 on Oct 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
Seriously
That made my nostrils flare in disgust. To each their own, but that might be part of why he’s depressed.
G.O.,
Get off your rich ass, take some NSAIDs BEFORE you work out and play and strengthen the muscles around your knee. Patellar tendinitis is not in any shape or form an injury to prompt sitting a $5 million dollar man. Either your trainers are being stupidly cautious, or you’re being obstinate and not wanting to play for whatever reason. I’m beginning to think it’s the latter.
Slimkim
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
Maybe Greg Oden is depressed he's not making as much money as Charlie Sheen.
Heck, that should depress all of us here.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
Everyone who said we should take Durant is an idiot
Ben, Henry Abbot, Bill Simmons, all idiots. What we need, what we REALLY need is a post thanking Greg for all of his hard work and knee-length character. Then we could pile in a big emotional ball of rec’s for our little big man Gregor. This Durant/Oden debate is far from over. Yay Greg!
Seriously though
When I read Greg’s remarks, my first reaction is not to think he’s in a bad place mentally or emotionally, but that he’s probably tired of answering the same stupid questions from “the media.”
by Foofighting101 on Oct 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT reply actions
I think so too
Most encouraging quote:
Whenever I feel that it’s ready, and that I can go out there and do all the things that I’m capable of doing, that’s when I’m going to come back. I’m not going to put a date on it, because that puts a lot of pressure, and usually just hypes up the media, because if I don’t come back on that date they make it a big problem, and ask why didn’t you come back on this day. I try to stay away from that.
Take your pick of discouraging quotes though
I
yes, exactly
How about someone interviews Oden a hundred thousand times and see if he seems “rudderless” or “discouraged” after answering the same questions over and over and over. What is he to do? How can he win?
This piece sucks, but thanks for posting it.
Ryan Gomes: forever a Blazer in our hearts.
agree. GO is probably very sick of all of it.
I am going to go with what Roy thinks.
Remember Roy said that he would like Rudy to stay with the Blazers…this was back in the summer when EVERYONE ELSE was thinking Rudy’s run with the Blazers was OVER.
So if Roy thinks Greg is going to be playing sooner than later….this is probably right.
Not me. I always thought Rudy would stay.
Proud to be a Republican.
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Rudy and his agents tried so hard to make a break of it
that they wound up insuring that Fernandez would or could not be traded
OTOH, Martell and Bayless’ reps went quietly behind the scenes and KP/Cho found them new homes with better career opportunities (once Webster is healthy, anyway)
Rudy seems happy enough, for now, but nothing has really changed re: his circumstances. Except now his chief competition for minutes and usage (Matthews) is tougher and better paid than ever
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yeah
but some of these are from back in May when he had hoped to be back for the playoffs and couldn’t get back…
I don’t know, he is 22, probably a little depressed and a bit rudderless for sure.
The thing that bugs me with the piece is Abbot uses a quote from May about having know NBA mentors and complains that Oden said that with Buck Williams as one of his coaches. At the time Greg said that Buck Williams was either only there for a few days or not even hired yet. Sloppy writing on Abbot’s part.
Again, trolling to stir up crap. It is what the entire media industry is built upon I suppose…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on Oct 27, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sloppy writing on Abbot’s part.
In that article Henry also mentioned a problem with one of Greg’s feet? News to me
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
He's probably referring to the mid-lateral foot sprain/avulsions from stepping on Derek Fisher's foot, opening night 2008
About as serious as an ankle sprain — calling it a “foot issue” seems like overkill.
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
i dunno
there doesn’t seem to be that much here in terms of reporting. Of course it would’ve been nice if he could’ve found out that drinking more milk would keep him from getting hurt or something. But I’ve seen nothing besides weird amateur speculation which leads me to believe (1) there’s something systemically wrong with Greg’s body and (2) anything can be done to ensure he’s healthy in the future. If someone can link to something he might have that’s causing these problems, then I’d be more concerned that he didn’t go address the holistic concern.
Their other issue, that he doesn’t have a mentor, is a non-starter. It’s hard to develop a professional mentoring relationship when you’re not doing your job.
The booze thing was basically a smear, just trying to make him look bad for not being completely honest even if the underlying subject matter wasn’t particularly relevant.
systemically wrong
The elephant in the room is his systemic condition. You don’t have to be an endocrinologist to google his appearance to get the most likely diagnosis. Occam’s razor.
BUT, at the same time I’m sure he’s had evaluation from world class doctors. So that means he’s not telling anyone (which is perfectly his business) or his work up is negative so this may be a condition that is yet to be discovered. As much advances as there has been in medicine in the last 100 years, there is exponentially more unknowns. Just play like you get paid to play, G.O. If you blow out your other knee that’s fine. Come back after another year and a half and earn your paper instead of being a Generation Y slack-a-bout. Oh does that hurt your feelings? Then, quit playing after this year, go to dental school like you always wanted, and do what you want to do with your life.
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
*Occum's razor
And I’m not sure what the simplest explanation is just by googling his image, unless his “diagnosis” is that he’s actually 55 years old.
So, 1) know how to spell the theory you cite and 2) know when to correctly apply it, because it doesn’t work here.
Now I feel stupid
My textbook had it spelled wrong. I still don’t think the theory applies, but sorta lost all credibility anyway I guess.
Yeah, I wouldn't know which blatantly obvious or simple explanation there is
Begin wild speculation: I’ve read rumors about a mild form of Marfan Syndrome, but that doesn’t seem to fit since while very tall and seemingly suffering a series of injuries he’s not skinny but extremely muscular and bulky. And talk about him having poor “elasticity genes” resulting in poor collagen production also seem odd, since he e.g. has few stretch marks. Also the injuries are not all to the same joint, or all joints. And his wrinkles seem to be a result of excess skin, not of premature aging. End wild speculation.
In short it should be in the best interest of the team (and from my perspective also for himself) to know what is really going on, but the explanation to whatever imbalance or oddity there might be is not looking quite that simple to me.
Wild?
There is nothing wild about what he probably has. Marfan’s syndrome is a VERY characteristic disease which he obviously doesn’t have, a> because he’s male and this makes it less likely
b> he doesn’t have the characteristic body style, spider fingers,
c> you don’t have joint and bone problems with Marfan’s, you’re just tall and very skinny and tend to dissect your main blood vessel to where you commonly die in your early 20s
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
Tall. Coarse facies. google.
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
Excess Growth Hormone/Acromegaly?
The most well-known athlete with that is currently Nikolai Valuev, and he looks pretty different displaying more of the “stretched long and rather puffy than muscular” signs. And isn’t prone to injuries, so that wouldn’t even be a bad sign.
And if this is the case, the further question would be
Why wouldn’t the Blazers/or whatever team insist on testing for it pre-draft when the symptoms slimkim is pointing out were still there? Given that within the previous three years of the Oden draft, two separate prospects (Podkolzin and Sun Ming Ming) were both diagnosed with acromegaly you’d figure that medical staffs wouldn’t overlook it.
There are definitely explanations for why this would go undiagnosed pre-draft (maybe Duffy prevented teams from testing for it because he knew Oden was going top 2 even if teams thought he might have it), but given that it appears to be treatable, what would he have to lose by testing for this after MF or the patellar injury?
#52
Royster...
Have you ever been obsessed with the hot chick in your class/work/favorite bar. One day it turns out she actually digs you. Once you starting her you realize she’s tore up from the floor up…on the inside, but you were too drawn in by her looks to care at her blaring defects.
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
starting=start dating...hybrid words are the bomb
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
Personally, I think Occam was an idiot.
At least the Occam’s Razor argument is brought up way too often. Or, as Wikipedia suggests, is just used badly.
When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. It is in this sense that Occam’s razor is usually understood. The principle is popularly, but incorrectly, summarized as “the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.”
The problem is that there are only a handful of people left today who know what “ontological parsimony” is without looking it up on Wikipedia. And I am one of them. So I’ll just deal with the common misconception of it (which incidentally is what I have wrongfully attributed to William of Occam above).
The simplest answer is often touted, but in reality, that answer is often the one I have before looking at facts. And if I do not have all the facts, it shouldn’t matter, because facts just make simple answers more complicated.
So does that mean we shouldn’t come to conclusions without knowing all the facts? That would be equally as silly, because then there would never be any opinions on anything. And that gets boring fast.
So I apologize to slimkim. I’ve just been looking for an excuse to blast the modern conception of Occam’s Razor (not the original) and you gave it to me. Not that I made any sense doing it.
But I think my point (or at least it is now) is that we aren’t given all the facts behind what’s going on personally with the Blazers. And today’s journalism only gives us the part of the story that sells ad space.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
by T Darkstar on Oct 27, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I dunno,
The problem isn’t necessarily with Occam’s Razor, it’s that people assume their incorrect hypothesis can be justified because they faultily assume it is the simplest. If a simple hypothesis contradicts facts, then it instantly becomes significantly more complex because you now have to postulate why the facts contradict said hypothesis.
Witness slimkim’s “simple” explanation here. As Norsk and Gman point out above, when you try to actually find the syndrome that could possibly explain his injury situation based on his looks, it’s clear that there isn’t one. This means that for slimkim to be correct Oden has to have some unique never before described physiological condition somehow related to the fact that he appears old and you’d have to explain how this condition has never been diagnosed before. Now it starts to get complex.
Is that really any simpler than “he’s been unlucky” or “he hasn’t taken great care of himself” as explanations for his being injured more often than other big men? Yes, facts will make things more complicated, but I don’t think anyone would argue that it says to favor simplicity at the expense of facts.
#52
Again, see my post above
If you use the medical terms for his appearance features, it is very simple. VERY SIMPLE. Ask your doctor next time you see her/him what they think G.O. has. And they will probably be right. That’s all I’m saying.
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
To me, this is vague, worthless drivel.
Then again, I prefer it when people are blunt and straightforward.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
You're right I didn't
use the original definition, because it doesn’t fit the originally definition. There is NO EQUAL competing hypothesis. If you were to ask a doctor, what does G.O. have, numbers 1, 2 and 3 on their differential diagnoses would be the “google” answer. Of course it would be scary and disturbing if a doctor used google to practice medicine. But that doesn’t mean googling doesn’t get it right….MOST of the time. The modern definition of Occam’s razor is what I meant here, because the original definition is meant for hypothesis that compete equally (whatever equally means), and there is nothing that comes close to what he probably has….if you ask…say an endocrinologist.
there has to be some white out around here. Printer toner should work- Macgruber
Occam's razor isn't actually logic.
I don’t know why people use it to try to solve things.
In my understanding it is a rule that says: use only logic (known facts, rather than unknown hypothesis to arrive at conclusions).
Proud to be a Republican.
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nothing
a rehash of what anybody following the situation has heard.
I am getting tired of the media in general on this stuff…
The only guy I like in sportsbroadcasting is Herbstriet, the rest are just hype machines….
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Finding out if something is systematically wrong?
Which was half of his point, but to me is somewhat pointless. If I were Greg, is that something I’d really like to make a huge effort to find out? Can you reverse it if something is systematically wrong? I don’t know. I’m not a doctor. Help me understand the value of finding out that, no matter what, your career will be consumed by injuries. You have no hope of ever really being healthy.
Psychologically, it sounds really demoralizing. Great plan.
Just waiting for the Ducks to lose.
To be honest, the entire piece confused me
Henry just seems to be hammering on Greg for things Henry sees as important to Greg that are non-issues for other players.
He thinks he should have a mentor and Greg doesn’t, I don’t remember hearing about Blake Griffin’s mentoring last season.
He thinks he should have checked on systemic factors then segues into a story (with no references to Greg) about how young people are aimless, implying that Greg simply lost interest because he wasn’t satisfied with Greg’s answer about getting it checked out.
And atomiccafe is right about the drinking smear, Quick says it himself in the column that Henry links to that Oden said he still has a drink once in a while, it’s not as if he wasn’t up front about it at the time. It’s not his fault that people can’t make it more than 6 paragraphs through Quick’s column and Henry plays it up like it was some big revelation that he still occasionally has a drink.
I guess I’m just not sure what he was trying to say with it. Is Greg supposed to be a cautionary tale or something? It was just fairly aimless to me.
#52
by Royster on Oct 27, 2010 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm more dissatisfied in how his handlers are managing and communicating this situation than with anything he has done
It’s not that most players his age have this kind of thing figured out. It’s not that he’s behind. It’s just that it seems it would be so unbelievably helpful, and yet he’s doing so little about it.
Exactly. And that’s where all his and the Blazers highly-paid advisors, doctors, trainers and development directors should come into play.
That really is the money quote
The rest is a little unnecessary and unrelated. He was reaching to make a full article out of what could have been 2 or 3 paragraphs.
It appears as if Oden is detaching when he should look to utilize the resources I am sure the organization has to help him through rehab. Obviously there’s something that needs to change systematically (routines, diets, training methods, etc.), and he was quoted before the summer as vowing to seek out that kind of change, but it doesn’t appear as if he’s doing much of that going by this article.
a certain amount of the organization should insist upon frankly
of course they retain jay jensen’s services. I do not think the org takes health of the players as seriously as they should. Injury treatment seems to be their only real goal…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
we don't have much choice but to ride him
This isn’t Kwame Brown here. there is no doubt Oden can play at a high level. When he’s on the court, he’s a dominant big man at both ends of the court. Therefore, I only see two real outcomes for the next 5+ years:
1) He is able to put major injuries behind him enough to play consistently, in which case he’ll be a dominant center in this league
2) He will continue to be ravaged by a series of injuries which prevent him from ever stringing together a consistent body of work over months and seasons at a time.
If #2 happens, there’s really nothing anyone can do about it, and it would be a sad story. If #1 happens, it darn well better be in the black and red. People worry about Jerryd Bayless becoming the “next Jermaine O’Neal”? Well, wait until you dump Oden and he ends up making 5 straight all star games and dominating the paint in someone else’s uniform.
We really have no choice to ride him until we are SURE he can’t stay healthy.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Oct 27, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
People worry about Jerryd Bayless becoming the "next Jermaine O’Neal"?
Get it right. Bayless is going to be the next Fat Lever. You heard it here, first!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Fat Lever was a superb rebounder and ballhawk, while Jerryd Bayless is a terrible at both things.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
You know, it's OK for 6'3 guards to get things done in different ways
Bayless has had double the FTs attempted and made when compared to Lever’s per/36, but this doesn’t mean that Fat was a slacker in that area
just like Bayless’ failure to this point of his career to measure up to one of the best rebounding guards in league history (who played in a completely different offense and era) is a sign that Jerryd’s future performance can’t be compared on any level with Fat’s career
15.8 ppg (per 36) for both guards. Fat was 22 as a rookie and was fortunate to play 2000+ regular season due to Valentine’s injury. Bayless will soon pass the 2000 minute threshold at the same tender age and I expect him to score more than Lever, but have fewer assists and rebounds over the course of his career.
And at some point in the future Rex will make many Blazers fans regret the day he was dealt. (Even if they still think he’s a selfish, me-first gunner who screams too much)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
no big news here - maybe a bit critical viewpoint - nothing new
I totally disagree that Oden should be worried about something “systemic” – yeah, good idea to worry about something you have no evidence of that you can’t change – exactly WRONG. I think Gregs attitude is fine under the circumstances.
Him having no contract is a clear motivator for him to do the best he can this year. I remain hopeful that he will be able to play before too long, say, this year.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
Abbott is getting more and more of a hack
This piece reads like it was written by my passive-aggressive great-aunt.
Waitaminute! Take back what I've said...
I’ve figured it out (and it’s genius):
1. Abbott is a Blazers’ fan
2. Abbott knows that Oden is sick of the negativity of LOCAL hacks like Quick and Canzano, so:
Abbott writes a NATIONAL article that’s even more full of moaning and baselessly critical insinuations than the local media, so that Greg WON’T be driven away from Portland. He’ll realize that there are jerks EVERYwhere.
I'm tired of these "Greg is not playing" articles.
I want to read a “Greg is playing” piece.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
Didn't care for this article much...
All the analyses was based on suspect inferences of comments. Also makes me feel that fans are creepy—and journalistic fans are the creepiest.
by PoliSam on Oct 27, 2010 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Meh
It will all be erased after the first 2 or 3 lobs from Miller to Oden for the dunk.
this ^
Greg still wants to be a dominant NBA center. He’s just tired of talking about it.
Kind of like Nate not signing long contract extensions—he wants to earn it out between the lines
Competitors >>> critics and commentators
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
There is something systematically wrong with him.
He’s a really big guy with lots of muscle that probably grew too fast at a young age. Fix that, and you fix the problem!
Seriously, this is the risk of a big guy. Walton, Bowie, Prz, Sabonis, Yao, Ilgauskus (sp?), and others have had similar problems. My biggest worry isn’t his physical health at this point, it is his mental health and confidence. I fear that he fears another major setback, and will play scared once healthy.
I'm getting disgusted not only by this, but by the entire media ethos, it seems. Trash, complain, bitch and
critique form ignorance seems to be the order of the day.
Jaynes and Chad on the morning show bagging on LMA because he didn’t light up hedo. They were at the game. they know darn well he was double teamed, they also know that while he didn’t make brilliant passed out them, he made adequate passes and his efforts were evident in the results of the game. But no, it’s all about the box score.
Then later they will complain about some player being selfish. Well, the universal message is" unless you get yours, you stink. What player would be tempted to be ZBo?
Quick and Canzano complaining that the “buzz” seems lacking. Well, really, after spending a whole summer crapping on players and pouring cold water on the team, the buzz seems muted?
I want to be an informed fan. But I hate, really hate reading the mainstream media and listening to the radio most days.
SO I PLEAD WITH B.E. – don’t do it. Resist the temptation to create buzz by being dicks. Stop it now, please.
by raoulduke on Oct 27, 2010 1:21 PM PDT reply actions 13 recs
Everybody rags on everybody; it's human nature.
I say we embrace that negative quality in ourselves.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
I only listen to sports radio in Portland anymore
They won’t make a theoretical ad dollar off me.
I’m so glad the season has started so I can watch games and draw my own conclusions. Other than Dave and Ben here, I find myself reading blazer related articles and skimming them for quotation marks. I want to hear what coaches and players say and not some drummed up, overly dramatic “writing” between the line editorializing that our media members seem to so favor. I instinctively know that everything in between the quotes is going to be drummed up drama with increasingly predictable negative spin (I can just hear negativity oozing from Quick’ss voice when they interview him pregame). I don’t need these hacks reading between the lines for me. I find my perception is fine (and thankfully, much less depressing).
I find myself reading blazer related articles and skimming them for quotation marks.
not to mention fast forwarding through podcasts and listening for interviews. Then shutting the media player down as soon as the interview is over, because the commentary is liable to be snarky
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Tendinitis
What exactly is tendinitis (inflammation of the tendon?)? Is this an injury? Something that could develop into an injury? Is it just painful? In these interviews it seems like he always says he’ll be back when he is ready, not “I’ll be back when the knee is recovered”. Someone help me to understand this thing…
It's swelling and pain, essentially
It would limit his mobility, but, to my understanding (which could be totally wrong) rarely leads to more injuries, other than prolonging or aggravating the original tendinitis. The fear is that, in an athlete with Oden’s history, he could favor the knee with the inflamed tendon and develop weaknesses and injuries elsewhere. But the condition itself probably resulted from the strain of rehabbing the knee and rebuilding strength lost to atrophy during the healing process.
The problem with tendinitis, like plantar fasciitis, is that it is a chronic injury, so you never know how long it will take to get better. From what we’ve heard about Greg’s recent practices, it’s getting better, he just needs to get over the last little hump. This is one of those situations where we have to trust Greg to trust his body.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
As you said, it's a generic term for an inflammation of a tendon, in his case reportedly the patella
(Which really is a ligament connecting two bones, but usually called a tendon although it doesn’t connect a bone to a muscle)
Unfortunately a number of symptoms and causes the subsumed under this term in NBA injury reports, so it’s impossible to say from the outside if there are micro-tears (tendinosis, making it a chronic condition) or just something temporary that will go away fairly quickly. At any rate, the associated pain is generally worse than the functional defect.
I should have waited for your response...
It’s better than mine.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
And to add to that
There’s some good information here.
When the world knows Nico Batum as "The Inevitable", I'll be very happy with where he is as a player.
The title of the article alone
is enough to turn my stomach. What right does Henry Abbott, or for that matter any fan have to insinuate about a broken promise?
Greg Oden is not entitled to us and does not owe anyone anything except getting out on the court when he is healthy.
Speculation and gossip, rumors etc will not change that. Let’s see if Abbott or other “national media” types write anything positive about Oden once he’s back playing. Or as I suspect they just want to spread negativity about a young man going through a rough time in his life
"He's the one Natural One makes it easy, he can take it inside"
The title is "unkept promise," not "broken promise."
And it means that his athleticism, size, and skill indicated a promising career in the NBA, not that he or anyone made a promise and broke it.
Your last paragraph contains more speculation than anything Abbott wrote.
by MiledAnimal on Oct 27, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A better title would have been
“The unrealized potential of Greg Oden”
And how can anyone do anything but speculate on Greg Oden when no one really knows when he will be back? I’m just saying most articles on Oden seem to be more negative than positive. Yes, I understand he may not fully realize his potential but he can still have an impact when he plays.
"He's the one Natural One makes it easy, he can take it inside"
A healthy Oden for consecutive seasons means he and the Blazers get the last laugh.
More long-term injuries means more negative articles about him and the Curse of Sam Bowie.
Nothin’ we can do about it.
by MiledAnimal on Oct 28, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm disappointed in Abbott
The article is nothing but speculative pessimism. How dare he question Greg’s character and work-ethic like that, based on his interpretation of responses to questions that are almost designed to make Greg look and feel bad?
The odds are in Greg’s favor. I just hope he doesn’t leave us at the end of the season in search of a fresh start where the fans, media, and perhaps even front office aren’t so down on him.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I just hope he doesn’t leave us at the end of the season in search of a fresh start where the fans, media, and perhaps even front office aren’t so down on him.
I’m concerned about that and also that he doesn’t start blaming the Blazer training and medical staff for his problems.
Oden has options other than just letting Portland match a free-agent offer sheet.
1. Best case – He will still be able to negotiate a new contract with Portland while he is a restricted free-agent after the expected lockout ends. It would benefit the Blazers to make a deal directly with Greg in order to be able to negotiate contract terms like option years.
2. Risky case – He signs an offer sheet and then we can match. But then we don’t have any say over the contract terms. We may not like the price, the number of guaranteed years (too many or too few), option years, incentives, etc.
3. Worst case – He signs the qualifying offer (fixed at $8.8M) and plays one more season (the expected lockout season) and then becomes an unrestricted free agent. At that point he can simply leave the Blazers without compensation.
Option 3 is unlikely because one would think that Oden would want to sign a long term guaranteed contract as soon as possible given his injury history. But this season (2010-11) will be over by the time Oden has to decide between the 3 options, so the risk of further injury this season (2010-11) will already be out of the equation when he makes his decision. Furthermore, if his experts think a lockout will wipe out most or all of the 2011-12 season, he could decide the risk of injury in whatever will be left of the 2011-12 season is worth risking and sign the qualifying offer. (The Blazers can limit the deadline for signing the Qualifying Offer to October 1, and they should obviously do that.)
I wonder about Oden’s state of mind. I hope he doesn’t start associating Portland and the Blazers with the criticism he gets in the media (local and national), or transfers blame and frustration to the Blazers training and medical staff (as Bill Walton did). If this season goes poorly again (reoccurring tendonitis all season, or another more minor injury after he returns that again takes him out for a couple months) I hope he doesn’t pull a Walton and eventually decide that he just wants out of Portland to get a fresh start somewhere else, perhaps closer to home. If that happens, he could even act against his own best interests and sign the qualifying offer, leaving the Blazers with nothing after the lockout season.
If I were Cho I would still be trying to negotiate a last minute deal with Oden now for a reasonable price (maybe $8M a year). There’s a lot to lose here ( a future championship) if a worst case scenario develops.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 27, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points, BFS1970, but I would want GO to prove
he can play at least 65 games this season before I would sign him to another contract. If he limps to another team and then suddenly blows-up, then we just weren’t meant to have a healthy GO on the team and we become the Utah Jazz for the next few years.
I hadn’t considered your point that GO might want a fresh start elsewhere. It’s easy to see that happening and it would be understandable if he felt that way, but Paul Allen and the Blazers have stuck by him and paid him well for the few games he’s played, and I think he would like to stay with the Blazers, get healthy, and help them win a lot of games and championships.
I don't think there is any chance he plays 65 games this season, so you may have to change your number or say good-bye.
He would have to come back on Dec 1 and play every game the rest of the season to play 65 games.
Dec 1 – 65 games left
Dec 15 – 57 games left
Jan 2 – 49 games left
I’ll guess he plays about 45 regular season games this year (I don’t expect him to play every game after he comes back).
If I could get Oden for $8M a year (perhaps with a few incentives for games played), 3-years with a team option for a 4th year, I’d sign him this week.
If there is “some kind of hard (or harder) cap” in the new CBA I would expect it be phased in gradually to keep teams from having to lose their players immediately to comply with cap (the Miami/LA rule). It may be an advantage to go into the new CBA with your big contracts already in place. The Blazers will also have a window (after the season ends until June 30) to extend Przy. They will have to consider that situation very carefully too.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 27, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
My bad on the number of games I would want to see GO play this season.
I was thinking that I wanted to see GO play 80% of the games once he comes back (about 65 games in a full season), but forgot that he’ll likely miss the first 15-20.
The deal you suggest is reasonable. My problem is that I want a resolution to The Greg Oden Problem this season. I’m tired of dealing with his endless string of injuries, of the endless debate and articles about him, of my hopes going higher when he does play, only to see those hopes dashed again each time he goes down. So if GO can come back in a few weeks and play most of the rest of the season like a normal NBA player, I’ll be willing to take a chance on him for another contract. But the next time he drops to the floor clutching his knee is the last time I want to see him do that as a Blazer.
by MiledAnimal on Oct 28, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand your feelings. The worst part is not knowing what we are going to get out of Oden in the future.
The gamut seems much wider now than when we drafted him. As hard as it is to wait, I just hope the Blazers don’t make a mistake and give up on him too soon. On the other hand, many years ago they made the right call at the right time on Sam Bowie. They gave up on Sam while he still had value – he went to a lengthy but unremarkable NBA career, and got the missing piece for him (Buck Williams).
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 28, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll be willing to take a chance on him for another contract. But the next time he drops to the floor clutching his knee is the last time I want to see him do that as a Blazer.
As a fan you’ve got to take the bad with the good. It’s all part of it. Oden could have a setback tomorrow and it wouldn’t change one thing about what kind of player he is, or how dominant he can still become.
All it changes is how you feel about his chances. No one but you can control that.
Bowie’s situation was much worse. He was older than Greg and had tibias that were thin and had metal plates/screws in them. Yet, Sam played in the NBA until he was 33. Oden is only 22, he’s got a lot of years (and potential injury rehabs) left in him
Plus a whole lot of productivity at a very high level. Right around the corner
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
transfers blame and frustration to the Blazers training and medical staff (as Bill Walton did)
Walton wanted to play so badly that he followed risky medical advice and received a pain-killing shot that caused his foot to be broken. Nothing about Oden’s injury conditions for the past 3 years compares with this contentious episode in Blazer history. When Kevin Kunnert broke his foot following the Walton trade, did he vilify the Blazers medical staff? Did Sam Bowie complain that his tibias were re-fractured because of the advice/procedures of Portland’s doctors/trainers in the mid-80s and then angrily ask to be traded? Did Sabonis blame Portland’s medical staff for the condition of his Achille’s tendon? No, no and no.
I’m concerned about Oden’s long term health and future job security as much as any Blazer fan, but let’s not pull up a 30 year-old incident regarding medical practices that have long since been abandoned as dangerous and apply it to Greg’s situation with the Blazer’s current medical staff. This Chicken Little approach to Jay and Bobby somehow being the reason for the player’s injuries (and Oden’s reason for leaving PDX) is just as knee-jerk and sensationalistic as Abbot’s article.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 28, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, the Pathos of youth
Go get em Greg; get off your ass and get em.
i grew up with tendonitus in my knee and it hurt but it didnt keep me from playing any sport ever
im sure the doctors are alot smarter now and mabey it heals faster staying off it more.
Sitting Greg reveals the perceived importance of the regular season
Haven’t seen this interpretation yet, so I’ll throw it out there.
And it’s this: when push comes to shove, teams treat the NBA regular season like an 82 game exhibition schedule.
Or at least, the games until Christmas are like a 20-ish game exhibition schedule. The games just don’t matter, and nothing about them justifies pushing Oden and Pryzbilla into action.
PS: I wouldn’t be shocked if the entire 2011-12 season is lost. In the case of Greg, I bet it makes an earlier contract go from unlikely to inconceivable.
I don't get it
what did Greg say that Henry Abbott took as negative? Everything Greg said in the interview sounded pretty reasonable and honest.
Abbott has always been
…that rarest of quantities, a fair and sober-minded basketball writer.
If he’s concerned, we probably all should be.
What I learned from this article
the Blazers have a shooting coach named Dean Cooper
(that’s about it)
I think the fact that Cho hired Cooper was mentioned sometime during the past few months, but—like Steve “hat man” Gordon"—little is known about Dean and what he does or which players he’s coaching up, besides Oden. Is DC a glorified ball shagger, or does he teach shooting fundamentals (i.e. “break down” a player’s mechanics then teach the proper technique)?
The reason I’m curious is because Armon Johnson (and to a lesser extent, Elliott Williams) need a shot doctor like this, and we know that Townsend and Monty are gone from last year’s staff of instructors
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
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