Jason Quick not happy about blogger comments
by Bairdy on Oct 13, 2010 4:17 AM PDT
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PrintBelow are two tweets from Quicks twitter.
Brandon Roy called out by blogger for not playing hard in Monday's exhibition. Pretty sure he wasn't asked about it then - he will Wednesday
And then
Same blogger says there's on-court chemistry issues with Andre Miller and Brandon Roy. Wondering what Miller has to say about that.
Now while Jason Quick doesn't name the blogger he is referring to, surely this has to do with the media row report that Ben wrote for the Blazer/Jazz game.
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This is exactly what I’m talking about Dave. The negative stuff here finds a way to bubble up into the locker room. You can’t observe comment at length about a phenomenon without effecting it.
Sure, Quick has a bone to pick. He gets to be a vector for ‘fan opinion’ to reach into the locker room. Now opinions about chemistry have an opportunity to actually effect team chemistry. And quick gets his drama. This is called ‘being gamed’. See also chickens coming home to roost. Quick is called out for mixing beat and editorial and he turns it around in less than a week.
I may not draw any water in this one horse town, but I’d surely defend it from him. Or his editors, or whoever it is that pulls his strings. Know your role, eh?
This is my sig file. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
by pxilpooshr on Oct 13, 2010 4:40 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Ben and Dave's reporting shouldn't be conditioned on what is "good" for the team.
by jnewhouse on Oct 13, 2010 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
YES it should!
We are fans first … it’s not our job to go snooping for every bit of dirt, nor is it to overly praise the civil acts of kindness……
We want this team to win… and ANYTHING that inhibits that in any way is not helping….
And that isn’t what dave wants… .ain’t what ben wants…
Once upon a time the logo and tag line said “by blazer fans for blazer fans” It changed… but I’m hoping that mantra didn’t…..
We are not normal news… . We are the edge… truth yes… detrimental to the team… we don’t like to be.
(mind my spelling please)
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
jason quick is not the team.
Just because he’s noticed the comments doesn’t mean Brandon came to him asking for someone to DO something about that BLOGGER!
by botanyjames on Oct 13, 2010 7:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There's always nice, safe, easy solutions to these problems
LYNCH THE HATERS! AHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
Bayless > Daffy Duck after 3 cans of rockstar
by Batumshakalaka on Oct 13, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Ben or Dave writing something critical about the Blazers on their fan site isn't detrimental to the team
Jason Quick running to Blazer players and asking them what they think about it, then printing their responses in the largest newspaper in the state: THAT is detrimental to the team. As was Quick’s infamous “underwhelming” Greg Oden piece, his “Kleenex” Rudy piece, etc.
Should journalists be free to report the news? Sure. But this ain’t Watergate. The Blazers are entertainers, not politicians, and if we don’t want a greedy, ratings-hungry weasel—er, I mean “writer”—messing with team morale and chemistry, WE have the right to boycott the paper that prints his garbage.
Personally, I stopped buying The Oregonian long ago, and I let the publisher know why: John Canzano and Jason Quick.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
by hurryup09 on Oct 13, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you. If quick is bringing this to their attention
He’s essentially being an antagonist, and moving himself further away from being a beat reporter and closer to being a columnist. He’s alienated himself completely from Rudy, who allegedly will not even speak to or acknowledge him anymore, which isn’t good as the Rudy saga was the gem of a story that he dangled over the fans all summer. What he has lost simply is perspective. It seems that when Canzano left town for his honeymoon, quick took it upon himself to stir the op-ed pot, to his own detriment. Now, perhaps in his mind to regain favor amongst the team he is arguing against another beat writers words? He’s trying to play both sides, and from where I’m sitting it smells pretty bad…
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 10:16 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I absolutely cannot fathom this point of view
Quick is a villain for asking players about something Ben wrote? Ben is the one that wrote it and chose to publicly publish it. Ben interacts with the players on a day to day basis, he’s the one who should stand by his words to Brandon’s face, not that there’s anything wrong with them if he believes them.
Seriously, you could make the same argument that Ben should be held accountable if he asked Rudy about Quick’s article. This is just getting out of hand.
#52
the difference
is that Jason seems like he would be asking it only to try to offend the player, and then respond, well thats what blazersedge said, as if he’s trying to get ben ‘in trouble’ with the team.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
You can make anything terrible
by projecting biased motives onto someone.
#52
by Royster on Oct 13, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this whole thread is about figuring out whats going on
by your logic, we can’t even suppose that it’s Ben being discussed because it wasn’t explicitly said.
I’m projecting a ton of stuff here. doesn’t mean i’m wrong.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
Except one assumption is simple and obvious
the other assumption is convoluted and unsupported. We have concrete evidence of Ben saying Brandon didn’t play hard and Dave citing on court chemistry as an issue. There’s nothing even remotely equivalent that says that Quick has some vindictive streak and simply wants to embarrass Ben.
#52
The difference is the quick article is well known to Rudy, so if Ben were to ask him about it, he us not the one responsible for bringing it to his attention.
Quick tweeting that he’s going to make sure Roy responds to someones criticism, that he may or may not be aware of, seems like he’s “tattling” on Ben. So even though there’s no evidence of it, that’s how it comes across, and typically being a tattle-tale is an effort to clear oneself of guilt even though they are usually engaging in the same activity as what they are accusing someone else of.
To me ,Quick lost a lot of credibility in that Rudy article mainly because he resorted to name calling when addressing Rudy. For someone who is tasked with reporting the facts this is the line that should not be crossed. He played up to popular sentiment rather than giving us the daily dish, and was wrong to do so. So now I must say that I do question his motives, but will grant you that I’m taking a bit of a leap with my opinion.
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 11:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Give me a break
BE is a credentialed media presence in the Blazers’ locker room, represented by Ben, it’s not like we’re talking about random bloggers or even Blazers-centric but less dialed in blogs like BaB or RCP. This wouldn’t be the case if no one read it or cared about what was written. If Ben writing it isn’t enough to ask questions about it to Brandon, at what point does it? If it had been Eggers would he be justified about asking about it then? The Columbian? Vance? A beat writer from another city’s ‘real’ newspaper?
As I said below, no one would be whining about Quick if this had been an ESPN writer talking about Brandon instead of Ben. Like it or not, BE is a fixture in Blazers media right now that gets read by people. Asking players about something they write (fairly prominently, given that it was like the 4th graf in Ben’s write-up) is in no way ‘tattling’ on them, and it’s belittling to Ben to refer to it like that.
#52
I think you're misunderstanding me.
I don’t see how I’m being belittling to Ben at all. I wasn’t speaking about whether Ben had a right to question team chemistry or overall effort, and being at the game he wrote about I can say it did look like Brandon was playing about half speed. What I was questioning was Quicks mentality and motives in saying he’s going to make sure that Brandon is asked about whether he was playing at half speed, or asking him to defend an allegation rather than respond to an observation as it appeared from Ben. How bout you give me a break, you’re assuming just as much about the motives of quick as I am here, and as I said, only one of these guys has given me reason to do so as of late!
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 12:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm saying that the implicit assumption
is that no one really reads Ben’s write-ups and the only way Brandon would find out is if Quick ‘tattled’ on him. Like it or not, Ben’s a real reporter, one whose stuff gets read and treating his work as something that only an obscure audience reads is unfair to him. No one would characterize Ben asking a player about something Quick wrote or Quick asking about something ESPN wrote as ‘tattling’, so why should it be any different here?
The fact is a media member wrote that Brandon didn’t try last game. It is absolutely valid to ask Brandon about his effort and whether he’d agree or not.
#52
Right but Quicks article quickly became a central part of the Rudy story and could therefore more easily be assumed to have gotten around to all those included in it.
The fact that rudys agent responded so directly to it and across the entire media landscape means that story could be looked at as being more prominent than one preseason game recap by Ben! I don’t think that’s belittling to Ben at all, just that maybe him saying that Brandon is playing half speed might be something that flies under the radar, that is until quick makes sure to point it out to him. I guess we’ll have to wait and see the tenor with which this story develops to make a judgement about intent.
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 1:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If that were the only time BE flew off the handle about Quick
I might understand, given that column was far more out there than anything he’d done previously, but BE flies off the handle every time Quick posits any remotely controversial opinion.
Besides, it would still go back to a “well, he’s worse than I am” argument, which is just pointless to me. I’d rather both of them be held responsible to the players for things they write.
#52
Well he's reaping the consequences of writing such a contoversial article then.
There’s a huge difference in saying somebody is unhappy and calling somebody a “crybaby”. I’d be equally upset if Ben had said Roy was being a “half-ass” instead of wondering whether he was saving it for the regular season. See one way is inflammatory and the other is an observation. Still there is a difference between criticizing Quicks takes on this website and Ben tweeting “I’m gonna go to the team and make sure they respond to what was said by party B.”
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 1:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That'd be one way to read it
Or, “party B wrote this, I wonder what Brandon has to say about it”. Like I’ve said ad nauseum, if Woj or ESPN had wrote this, no one would have a problem with Quick’s tweets. It’s just a double standard.
#52
I guess, but a national writer or news outlet doesn't necessarily have the same access that a beat writer does.
These guys are in constant contact with the team and while there is a benefit there is also the risk of the writer getting too close or too comfortable with his subjects. Maybe they lose perspective from time to time. Anyways this could boil down to whether Ben and Jason consider themselves colleagues or competitors. I think quick for the first time in his career, and since the release of KP has found himself with less access than he used to have, maybe he’s trying to get back in. If like you say he’s merely presenting bens analysis to garner an honest response, why tweet about it? Why not call Ben and say, “Hey I know you meant to ask him yourself, I got your back, I’ll ask him for you.”? If his motives were pure he wouldn’t need to tell everyone first, he’d just have to tell one person. Idk though this is prolly idiotic or absurd or unfathomable…
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 3:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Or more likely
he’s just pimping a story so his twitter followers check Olive later. I’m sure he’d rather try and get a bigger scoop out of “Does Brandon think he’s trying in the preseason?” than try and turn this into some sort of mentoring moment.
#52
Well that's just lazy then, taking bens post and turning it into his most pressing question?
I mean why couldn’t he just say, “gonna ask broy if he’s just mailing it in until regular season”? Instead of bring up the question as it being blogged by a certain blogger?
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 3:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
this whole string gets to the problem in journalism
Should a beat reporter be characterizing performance at all? Or just explain what happened?
Should reporters report what other reporters are writing about their subject at all? Or should they ask their own questions and leave it to the other reporter to chase down their own story/assertion?
Should reporters need such strong personal relationships at all to cover their subjects? Should it matter if a player is mad at Ben or Jason?
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
To answer your questions
Should a beat reporter be characterizing performance at all? Or just explain what happened?
I think the answer is an inequivocal yes. If people just want bland accounts of what happened with a couple quotes, there are AP write-ups, box scores and play-by-plays for that. You’re simply wasting a writer by dedicating him to a team and having him report only what happened.
Should reporters report what other reporters are writing about their subject at all? Or should they ask their own questions and leave it to the other reporter to chase down their own story/assertion?
Depends. Maybe a writer didn’t notice something at first or misjudged the public’s interest. Should he refuse to follow up on it because he didn’t break it or because something he originally thought was unimportant turned out to be a big deal? IMHO, a writer should do as much research as possible in deciding what to write on, utilizing primary sources in addition to secondary or tertiary sources. Basically every writer does this to some extent to get a full picture/background of their subject.
Should reporters need such strong personal relationships at all to cover their subjects? Should it matter if a player is mad at Ben or Jason?
Debatable. Certainly guys should be on speaking terms with their subjects, but developing close friendships is often counterproductive to reporting the truth since emotions tend to screw with stories. I don’t think Ben or Quick should go out of their way to antagonize players, but neither should they be in a situation where they hold back information for free of ruining a friendship.
Not to say they should report everything they know because they obviously still have to cultivate and maintain sources without completely burning bridges, but it’s a professional environment. Barring a major fiasco, though, it should be up to them how best to maintain this balance rather than the peanut gallery here.
#52
good points
on your response to the first:
I am not arguing that writers should not probe subjects about their observation to create a fuller story, but a blanket statement like “Roy did not seem to be trying” is not really reporting, it is assessing. Now, in his next encounter with Roy or another player he could follow up and seek clarification for his observation and report that, which would be of interest to people. I don’t care exactly how they “think” a player did but rather them focus their attention elsewhere.
On the second response
I agree with you here, but there is a line. By apearances Quick is actually using what the other reporter wrote to generate a story, there is a distinction to be made there. I agree follow up is important, and is largely a lost art in modern reporting.
On response 3
No matter his motive, his comments could negatively affect Ben’s ability to do his job. Quick is stirring the pot to weaken his competition in his subject’s eyes. I agree with you, Ben is responsible for what he wrote, but Quick’s approach here is exacerbating the situation without adding much value to the conversation. Value therefore is not Quick’s motive.
Since relationships have become the prime mover in access (public figures have manipulated the system to be this way) the subjects are happy to keep the observers focused on each other rather than themselves.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I'm sorry, but that second to last paragraph is simply absurd
If Ben didn’t think Brandon would read it and find out about his comments on the performance, then he shouldn’t have published it. That’s not Quick potentially “negatively affect[ing] Ben’s ability to do his job”, that’s Ben doing it, and since he made the decision to publish it, Ben is presumably okay with it. Ben eviscerated Blake in an offseason post a couple years ago, and that didn’t seem to hurt his ability to cover the team.
Blaming Quick for what Ben writes is simply ridiculous, just like it would be absurd to blame Ben for asking someone about a Quick piece critical of them. This piece was a day old and there are legitimate questions, as I posted below to joelor. It’s not like Quick is constantly asking Larry Miller about Ben’s summer coverage of the KP saga to embarrass him, AFAIK.
#52
What Ben did with Roy is the same as what Quick did with Rudy
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll step in here
to say that’s actually not correct. Ben offered an observation on Roy’s play. Quick directed Rudy in a course of action based on his own assumptions. They are two different things.
If Ben walked in the locker room and said, “Brandon, you seemed to be playing at half speed out there tonight. What’s up with that?” it would be a ballsy question but a legitimate one. Brandon could offer any number of responses or even counter that he was going all-out. He might be angry but he could answer the question.
If Quick walked into the locker room and said, “Wah, wah Rudy. Get a box of Kleenex and man up because this is a great situation for you” not only is there no comeback possible (other than, “Screw you”) the whole locker room would probably explode, and rightfully so.
—Dave
by Dave on Oct 13, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I agree with this
I think I’ve been pretty careful not to draw more than superficial parallels between Quick/Rudy and this situation in this thread, and I definitely have never meant to imply they’re equivalent.
#52
They both made assumptions about a player and published those assumptions
Without doing their job and following up with the person they were assuming about.
Are they reporters or columnists? If they are reporters then they should interview the players they are writing about.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 14, 2010 2:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I absolutely agree Tom...
..and it bothers me that Ben and Dave are being compared to Quick because in my opinion they are becoming more and more alike.
BEdge used to be miles ahead…the gap is unfortunately narrowing… and it’s not because Quick is changing.
I am not disagreeing
with your point that Ben is responsible for what he wrote.
My point is simply there are a billion other ways jason could pose this question with Roy without citing ambiguous “bloggers”. Even if Jason has a valid line of questioning, he is asserting a value judgement on Ben’s piece, not actually trying to find out if Roy took it easy the other night…
You follow up in journalism to gauge the accuracy of a claim or statement. Jason is attempting to point out who made the claim or assertion.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Meh, like I said way below in my response to the OP
not linking to the specific posts is definitely poor form at the very least from Quick, but Buzz Bissinger isn’t exactly walking through the door. I just don’t buy that calling Ben/Dave “bloggers” amounts to throwing around vile epithets.
#52
the blogger part is not the problem
it is the attribution at all…
Jason is not trying to find out if Roy took it easy, what the logical follow up would be if he were interested in anything but making Ben look bad to Roy.
Ben is not the subject for Quick, Roy is. I am not defending Ben, but Quick is not really interested in whether or not Roy took the evening off mentally/physically, which is what Ben’s assertion was. He is interested in pointing out that Ben made that assertion.
It is this kind of stuff that turns people away from following any news and why people that say they are reporters should stick to reporting and not so much assessing from personal opinion.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Or it would be an angle for a story
“Writer says Roy didn’t try”, which is more of a hook than “Did Roy try last night?” which may leave people scratching their heads as to why he would write about it without any background.
It’s not like Ben doesn’t do the exact same thing with Quick if he think Quick’s screwed up(see here)
#52
Would Ben ask Roy
Why did it seem like you were not trying last night?
If Quick wrote that Roy was not trying bloggers would have asked Roy about it.
It said in the paper that you were not trying last game, what do you have to say about that?
Why is it okay to hold the papers, radio and TV interviews accountable for every single word they say, but it’s not okay to do the same with bloggers?
Quid pro quo bro!
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
should not have included quicks own words
the distinction between blogger and newspaper reporter is largely nonexistant anymore.
Anyone that is a crednetialed reporter, no manner the communication channel, should avoid making personal opinion part of the story, that is a columnists job.
If Ben went that way about it for something Quick wrote i would feel the same way. Media culture in this modern era has driven us away from these basic fundamentals (fundamentals which in and of themselves were a relatively new phenomena anyway, although a phenomena that was in place when news sources were actually trusted for a brief period in our history).
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
There is no difference...
…and it could be considered arrogant to think there is…
To some extent we’ve been witness to Ben and Dave’s transformation from guys on our blog to journalists. To believe that they are not now motivated by the same thing as other journalists are would be naive.
It's just how it is
I think people are a little melodramatic about the evils and motivations of “journalists”, but it is depressing to see how so many people’s reactions here apparently are motivated less by an actual dislike of these supposed evils and more by just generally not liking Quick and the Oregonian.
#52
Thank you, Royster, for at least someone has a sound head on their shoulders here.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
Neither Ben nor Jason's articles should be detrimental to the team, unless these guys are ...
psychologically weak.
"Some things you can't unsee, bro." (The League)
Absolutely can't agree with that jnewhouse!..
We all want the Blazers to succeed. If a player, or a coach or even a fan intentionally… or unintentionally… do something that hurts the team they’re doing something wrong… Why should BEdge be held to any different standard?
I am not a Quick fan because he places his self-importants and reader volume ahead of the team’s best interest. If Ben and/or Dave do the same they are no better. This blog will turn from a place that real fans can gather to discuss the team we love to a “site” that self promotes to secure hits and readers… That has proven to be a conflict of interest.
by Ilikeemall on Oct 14, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he's talking about this blog
Where did the blogger say that?
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I found it
I was looking in Dave’s latest piece. It would be nice if people sited their source.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/10/12/1746315/media-row-report-jazz-109-blazers-100
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
It´s not the first shot Quick has taken at Ben.
Wonder if Dave had that in mind when he wrote his piece about Quick, Rudy and the kleenex.
More like, this is Quick's "payback" for Dave carving him a new orifice...
Pops off on the convenient target…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I seem to remember Quick not being the leader of the Andre Miller bandwagon last year...
Maybe I’m remembering things wrong. Also I’m not sure, but if he looks real close, he might see one of those non-old-media people talking to the players and thus having to face them. Also wondering how his conversations with Rudy are going these days.
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
by Norsktroll on Oct 13, 2010 6:51 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Quick was the only media member who wasn't afraid to tell the truth
Every other media member was too busy brown nosing and sugar coating to report the real story.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, yes: Jason Quick, fearless, intrepid reporter
A true journalistic icon! Integrity personified!
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
by hurryup09 on Oct 13, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This should be green
Fan’s loved him when he was wring fluffy “Behind the locker room door” stuff. Once he had the stones to report the truth, the lemmings couldn’t take it and turned on him.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't get it?
What do they have to do with Quick being the only media member not afraid to report on the Miller conspiracy?
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Er, I was being ironic
Quick is an embarrassment: a desperate, self-loathing hack.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
I'm not
Quick reports what he sees, now what fans want to hear.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
taking the opinion of one blogger and bringing it to a player
gives off the impression that many people feel the same way. Simply doing that is lame. Stirring up drama and then reporting on it is lame too.
by hoodieNation on Oct 13, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Ben should have asked Roy why he only gave half effort
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Ben reports what he sees, now what fans want to hear.
by hoodieNation on Oct 13, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why didn't he ask Roy about it?
He said Roy was giving half effort. Doe’s Ben have some sort of machine that measures player effort?
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is laughable.
Yes, Ben does have a machine that measures player effort. It’s called his eyes.
This isn’t rocket science. What, you can’t tell when somebody’s dogging it out there?
Is it really even much a story that Roy isn’t playing his hardest in the preseason? I don’t think Ben was going out on a limb. He was reporting on the obvious since nobody saw the game on tv. I’m sure most anyone who saw the game would agree.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Oct 13, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it's interesting that this came up
over a game which 95% of Blazers fans couldn’t see. It would be one thing if Ben wrote “Brandon didn’t play hard,” but all Blazer fans could WATCH the game and decide whether or not they agreed with that statement.
As it is, “Brandon didn’t play hard” is Ben’s take on how Brandon played in the game. While I certainly give Ben credence on stuff like this, I don’t even get the opportunity to form an opinion on this because I couldn’t watch.
I
I don't care whether we could have seen the game or not
Ben writing “looked like …” likewise wouldn’t have made any difference. If he didn’t think Brandon played hard, he should have written exactly what he did. As much as people hate to admit it, posters here were legitimately interested in that observation (just look at the comments addressing it in the media row report).
At the same time, it would also be interesting to know Brandon’s thoughts on the situation. Is he coasting to avoid an injury? Is he happy with where we’re at currently? Does he even think he’s coasting? When a prominent/semi-prominent media member (in Blazersland) says something like this about a player, it’s entirely pertinent what the player feels about it.
Neither Quick nor Ben should be considered at fault here. This is how things are supposed to work.
#52
by Royster on Oct 13, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think we are disagreeing here, I think we have different points
Ben writing "looked like …" likewise wouldn’t have made any difference. If he didn’t think Brandon played hard, he should have written exactly what he did.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t have said it, obviously Ben is entitled to his view and should report it as such.
As much as people hate to admit it, posters here were legitimately interested in that observation (just look at the comments addressing it in the media row report).
Of course people were interested in the observation: it was a statement about a star player made by a reputable media source regarding a situation which fans could not observe for themselves.
However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that, had I seen the game, I would agree. It is still Ben’s take on what happened out there during the game that I could not watch. My comment above was not taking a shot at who is right or wrong in this situation, just noting that it seems to be a case of he said/he said, and therefore we can’t fairly condemn Ben for his comments, nor can we assume Ben’s comments to be necessarily be fact.
I
I more or less agree
I just think we’re at the point that it’s assumed anything Ben writes is his opinion instead of objective fact. I can’t watch lots of in season games, either and I still trust Dave/Ben/Quick/Freeman’s writeups to give me a general idea of how the game went. Regardless of whether I watch/can watch the game, though, I expect their coverage to be the same, so asking them to vary it based on watchability doesn’t really serve us well, IMHO.
#52
I'd have to agree with this
perhaps he didn’t get an opportunity. but if he was unwilling to say “hey, it looks like you are just going through the motions out there, what’s up”, then maybe he shouldn’t have printed it. It’s a fair observation for any fan to make, and I know I do it all the time. But as a guy covering the team, you probably do need to guard your opinions a tad more.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Completely disagree.
Anybody can obviously tell when somebody’s just going through the motions. It’s a simple observation.
And even if it’s sort of an opinion, to say a team blogger shouldn’t report on his opinion of the team? Ludicrous.
This is the preseason. Brandon Roy, one of the top players in the league, a guy who didn’t work out with a basketball all last summer, wasn’t playing hard in a preseason basketball game. It’s not exactly Watergate.
Ben, keep up the good work. This entire debate is ridiculous.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Oct 13, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
i think it's fine for him to post his opinion
I can watch the game and post stuff like that all game long. Ben has an opportunity to go into the locker room and ask questions. Therefore, his duty and responsibility are a tad higher in my mind. If he observed Brandon coasting (and I’m 100% sure he was), then ask the question. If he was UNABLE to ask the question, then I’ve got no beef. but if he was UNWILLING to ask the question, then I think he’s shirked his duty a bit and should probably hold his opinion back. if he tweeted during the game
at the same time, it was no big deal at all, until Quick decided to go and make it the story.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
It's such an unremarkable observation...
…that I don’t think it would even necessarily occur to Ben to ask the question.
A superstar was coasting in the preseason? Stop the presses!
Of course Brandon was coasting. I am sort of interested to hear his comments on why – although I am 100% sure he would answer the question by saying the team is finding it’s rhythm, it’s early, blah blah blah – but there’s certainly no obligation to ask him about it before pointing it out on a blog.
If Ben pointed out that Brandon’s shot was off, or that he didn’t look great on D, or that he didn’t assert himself by attacking the bucket, would he need to ask Brandon about that type of commentary? If not, why does he need to ask him about coasting in a preseason game?
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Oct 13, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
you know, I think maybe you're right in this instance.
I’ll still stand by my bigger point – that Ben, being in the media with locker room access, should have a higher threshold to meet than you or I before publishing his opinion (just like Quick should as well).
That said, I don’t think he was out of line here. He could have covered himself from criticism by asking the question, but I don’t think he should be required to. Had he done so, then Quick wouldn’t be making this non-story a story, which is the real problem here.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I agree with this too
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
People just want to have it both ways
Is Ben “just a blogger” with BE representing a tiny portion of Blazers fans, or is he a beat reporter who reports on the team to decent percentage of the fan base? People jump over Quick not only for big things like the Rudy flap, but also any time he says anything remotely subjective on the basis that it will ‘hurt his ability to cover the team’. Wouldn’t the same thing apply to Ben?
Any time something remotely controversial comes from BE, people are quick to jump on the “just a blog” excuse, while spending the other 95% of the year touting the expansive and superior coverage of BE and its usurpation of ‘dying media’.
#52
Jason, is that you?
Since you’re defending him/yourself, perhaps you can explain why he’s trying to manufacture controversy over a blogger’s comments?
I trust Quick
He didn’t jump in the Miller bandwagon like the rest of the media lap dogs. He reports and leaves it up to us to form our own opinion.
Look at the quote Quick is talking about:
Brandon Roy did not play hard. He didn’t even do a particularly good job of faking it. Just a flat, disinterested performance from Roy,
Quick would have said that it “looked like” Roy wasn’t playing hard and would have asked Roy about it.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
No Qucjk would have said that Roy was pouting and needed a hug or a swat on the ass, If he was being
with the way he wrote about Rudy.
Ben evaluated Roy and it’s sounds critical. Fair enough. Quick personally and with calculation insulted Rudy. These are not the same things.
Rudy broke Quick's heart?!?
In Bayless I trust.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Quick.
Haven’t met Dave, but I’ve met Quick and he seems like he could scrap. Little known fact, but The Oregonian is actually a gang of sorts. You need to be jumped in—it’s an old HR tradition—and Quick and Canzano are actually entrusted with most of the dirty work there.
Canzano just killed a guy with a pitchfork.
He better look for a safehouse.
That really escalated quickly.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
I hope Brandon's response is:
Looks like I better go buy some Kleenex. Can you spot me $2.99?
In Bayless I trust.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Bald faced truth is the biggest lie.
The biggest lie is, J. Quick tells the truth.. JC tells opinions that will create controversy to improve his ratings. Often, placing himself in the center of the controversy (hmmm, here it is again).
In the good old days, parents taught their children. Anyone starting a conversation with "trust me", has placed you in the basement of their own outhouse for their own benefit. Run away from these manipulative people…
If you kids want to stay in the basement of J. Quick’s outhouse, fine, stink it up. I moved out long ago.. Eating JC’s BS gets old fast.
Apology to BE posters.
Yes, I made a mistake. I mixed up JC & JQ. My mistake and I apologize to everyone here.
However, I stand by my words. Everything I said goes for both JC & JQ. I do not trust either one of them.. I have stopped reading and listening to both of them… I bundle both of them in my old slow brains ignore file.. Both are full of self serving BS.
Time for me to wake up with a bucket of coffee.
by oldfishermen on Oct 13, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Quick is full of hot air on this one
but his Inside the Locker Room serious the last couple years has offered an insight into the Blazers that I think few beat writers offer.
JC is so far gone that I forgot that one would even consider him credible.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
knock me over with a feather
I’m always more confortable being on the other side of an issue versus John
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is too much fun.
It’s not explicit, but this has to be about blazersedge.
I’m having a hard time understanding what Quick’s gripe is. Let’s say he’s talking about Ben and is upset that Ben called out B.Roy for not playing hard without getting a quote. If Brandon responded by saying “Yes, I am” would that change the observation? Seems like he’s offended from the Quick and the Dead post by Dave.
Also, Quick is pissed because his medium is dying.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
It's from this
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/10/12/1746315/media-row-report-jazz-109-blazers-100
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
"He's Ben Golliver and I'm not."
I’m having a hard time understanding what Quick’s gripe is.
I would seriously trade Jason Quick and a first round draft pick to get Brian T. Smith back from Utah…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Oct 13, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
nbc? cbs? abc? one of em swooped up ben.. didn't they?
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
tempting for sure
BTS was very good.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
you're kidding right?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
@nathanbegley
by HurraKane212 on Oct 13, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember when everyone loved everything about and around the Blazers?
Those were the good ‘ol days.
We all new it would end someday.
The honeymoon phase is over. Now we’ve lived together for a couple years and REALLY know each other. Each with our annoying habits. Maybe we just need some marriage counseling before we become another statistic. Maybe we got together too young. Maybe we should have lived together a couple years before saying “I do.”
Just know, snoogles, that I love you no matter what happens. You will always be my soul-mate.
If what I just commented turns out to be wrong, please delete from all memory.
by NBAstard on Oct 13, 2010 9:04 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
This is a little ridiculous
I’d guess that Quick is giving the heads up to his audience that doesn’t read BE and maybe hasn’t heard about it. Asking Brandon/Dre about it is of legitimate interest to people. Like it or not, most people are interested in what Brandon thinks about his preseason effort or the continued lack of on court chemistry with Andre. That’s why Ben and Dave wrote about them in the first place.
Imagine instead that it had been Adande or Woj who had wrote this. We would absolutely expect Quick, Ben, and/or Freeman/Tokito to ask the Blazers about this, and the only difference would be the tweets would say “National writer” instead of “Blogger”.
His only real cardinal sin here is not linking to Dave and Ben’s posts in the tweets and properly citing the material.
#52
by Royster on Oct 13, 2010 9:09 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I’d guess that Quick is giving the heads up to his audience that doesn’t read BE and maybe hasn’t heard about it.
Did anyone go to the comments section under one of Quick’s stories and post a link to Dave and Ben’s articles, so some of Jason’s readers could find their way over here? Fight fire with fire!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think you need a full body suit
before wading into the comment section at O-live.
#52
D R A M A ! ! ! ! !
Below are two tweets from DRAMA QUEEN JASON Quick’s twitter.
Brandon Roy called out by blogger for not playing hard in Monday’s exhibition. Pretty sure he wasn’t asked about it then — he will Wednesday
And then
Same blogger says there’s on-court chemistry issues with Andre Miller and Brandon Roy. Wondering what Miller has to say about that.
FIXED.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
"Blogger" sounds like an insult in that context
Very reminiscent of the N-word. I’m sensing new versus old media tension.
by Jacksonville on Oct 13, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quick is just angry that someone that doesn't get paid near as much is
doing a better job.
Totally.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
by dario argento on Oct 13, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
That is becoming a favorite tactic of traditional media folks...
Even the ones who write blogs…which really cracks me up.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 13, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
That's because bloggers can dish it out
But they can’t take it
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Ummmm….you mean like Quick?
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 13, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
And I don't really mean Ben here
I’m just being contrarian to all the people who are sticking up for Ben. And at this point it is kind of hard to distinguish if I’m complaining about bloggers or Ben.
Let’s all be honest. There is no blog pointing out what dicks they are at Deadspin, or that Bill Simmons can dish it out but not take it, or that Fredarko just doesn’t make any sense. Bloggers have the time to dissect stuff because they’re not accountable to advertisers, time, or word constraints. A lot of the time, bloggers are dissecting what the “main stream” media says.
There is also an underlying undertone of the battle between the Benites and the Daveites. I can see people drawing lines in the sand and I know where people stand.
I know what side I am on.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It's hard for me to see
how this topic deserves such melodrama.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
@nathanbegley
by HurraKane212 on Oct 13, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Quick will be quick
Quick creates drama where there isn’t any. God forbid someone post observations about performance.
Follow me on Twitter @invisininjapdx
'Andre Miller is only here for the money' - Jason Quick
Quick’s a biased hack
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
Since when did reporting the truth make a reporter a hack?
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
what? how can you commend him for commenting and letting us decide
and then be OK with him saying stuff like “Andre Miller is only here for the money”?
by hoodieNation on Oct 13, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Andre Miller said as much
He was only interested in Portland once Portland was the last team with cap space. I bet Corvid could find the quote.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
to be fair
most players play basketball for the money
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
"I was like, 'Wow, we get a run.'-Felix Hernandez
Artis Gilmore for Hall of Fame
due to his low support around Bedge, Rudy Fernandez is temporarily my new favorite player
by thomasikehara on Oct 13, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
We all know that
They’re supposed to lie and say it’s about the game or a championship.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
or the women (e.g. Shawn Kemp)
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 13, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if that is true
He was just fertile and probably careless. If he cared about the women, he should know he could have got a lot more by not being fat.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Quick is totally heterosexual
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- Charles Darwin
Quick is a fan with a pen...
not really a beat writer. I wish we could trade Quick for Brian T. Smith.
If the players are letting what is said on a blog effect them
perhaps their mind isn’t where it ought to be , eh?
Not just blogs
Ideally they won’t let what is said in any of the media affect them.
When the world knows Nico Batum as "The Inevitable", I'll be very happy with where he is as a player.
The only thing
people should care about , is that the team is ready and prepared for the upcoming regular season and subsequent playoff run. Mentally and physically. The rest is just unwanted, unneeded drama. And let’s be honest, bad/controversial news sells.
this is getting me through a terrible preseason
I need have some fun where i can get it
Yellow Mamba FTW!
did ben really call out brandon?
he was just observing him no going all out in the preseason
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
"I was like, 'Wow, we get a run.'-Felix Hernandez
Artis Gilmore for Hall of Fame
due to his low support around Bedge, Rudy Fernandez is temporarily my new favorite player
its sounds like Quick is making an observation into a "calling out"
by hoodieNation on Oct 13, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
The punchline being that Brandon has now all but admitted that Ben was right on the money...
DQJQ needs to find something else to tattle about…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
My opinion....
Is I’m entitled to my opinon.
Blazersedge as reflected by Dave, Ben and individual fan contributors is entitled to reflect the whole spectrum of opinion.
Why should Jason Quick or anyone be unhappy about Blogger Comments?
Listen I recently defended Quick when he was criticized for his comments about Rudy. Because it was evidently his opinion and his commentary….
But it cuts both ways….Quick shouldn’t be wasting his time being unhappy about others personal opinions or observations either….you can have an opinion about an opinion but everyone is free to have their own.
Also the age old debate over what being a fan means?
Well my personal opinion is that being a Good Fan doesn’t mean you never question or criticize…infact I believe the opposite..being the best fan means you do question and criticize when warranted.
I think it perfectly valid to question the chemistry, the approach and realities as specific as Odens return and role…and Andre Millers chemistry within the team and with Brandon Roy….
Nothing is static…the questions as well as the answers can and should change….but I’m all for the freedom for the media and fanbase to ask and evaluate…
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Oct 13, 2010 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Could this be a loose reference to outside reporting by Ben? Could he be talking about someone in specific?
Even exercising full patience, though, starting backcourt chemistry is a huge question mark right now. The pairing is not settled and clicking, no matter what you might have read.
I
I love it when dead tree journalists
refer to their online contemporaries as “bloggers”, often not by name.
Canzano did it a year or two ago when Bojack smacked him around.
Memo to Quick: The “bloggers are losers who write stuff while sitting in Mom’s basement in their underwear” meme died several years ago. If there remains a respectability gap between print and online journalism, it’s in favor of the guys online. Ben doesn’t have to troll for page hits, but it’s Quick’s job to be controversial and to sell newspapers.
Nasty thought: Is Quick trying to get Ben’s press credential revoked? Working for the Oregonian gives JQ some advantages—even during the dark depths of the Steve Patterson years, when relations between the team and the paper were at an all-time nadir, the Blazers wouldn’t dare deny Oregonian reporters and columnists access to the team. But is BEdge in a similar position?
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Oct 13, 2010 12:03 PM PDT reply actions
This is awesome stuff. I love it. I think Quick is just jealous that Ben got a national job, and Quick is getting made fun by fans who are tired of his antics.
Quick’s fall from Portland sports grace must be getting to him. Memo to Quick; this is what happens when you repeatedly make bold predictions that don’t come true, call out players, launch a “trade Andre Miller” campaign, and then create stories where there aren’t any. The fans will start to ignore you, you will not get the nice national sports reporting job and our very own hard-working Ben Golliver will. That’s how it works. Do better writing and you will get better opportunities.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
My commute home last night took an extra 30 minutes because of an accident.
When I finally reached the accident scene, I saw a couple of smashed cars, which wasn’t all that interesting and certainly nothing new. I was happy to finally be able to step on the gas and get on with my life.
Looking forward to the regular season starting soon.
by MiledAnimal on Oct 13, 2010 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Ahhhh, the drama
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate how the BE community is rallying around Ben like any good family should. But there’s so much we don’t know about this situation, so I, for one, am not going to make any hard-and-fast conclusions.
Here’s what I know:
Jason and Ben operate in two different mediums. As such, I expect that their work will look different. (On a side note, for the most part I appreciate what they produce. I certainly couldn’t do either of their jobs)
Jason posted several tweets yesterday. The first was “Thing I respect most about mainstream media: most talk to the people they rip”. The second and third have already been posted by the OP, Bairdy.
I’m assuming that all 3, put together, are meant to be critical of what Ben put in his Media Row Report, but I cannot say that with 100% certainty. If, however, it is, then there are so many questions left unanswered:
Did Jason expect Ben to talk to both Andre and Brandon on Tuesday about what was printed? And did Ben not do so? I don’t know.
Did Ben talk to LaMarcus, Jerryd, Armon and Elliot but not to Andre or Brandon? Because Ben made criticisms in that piece of all of their performances as well. Again, I don’t know.
Is this meant to exhort Ben for something that Jason wants to help him grow in as a journalist? Or is it retaliatory for what Jason interpreted as a ‘slam piece’ on him by Dave? Again, I don’t know.
Discussion and even speculation about issues is one of the things that makes this such a great site. I don’t want to see any of that curtailed. I will only say that I hope that people are not jumping the gun in making final judgments on the issue without having all the facts.
by Storyteller on Oct 13, 2010 1:36 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
Good points. I agree with your hesitancy to join the Ben-championing horde...
Also..
I will only say that I hope that people are not jumping the gun in making final judgments on the issue without having all the facts.
I wouldn’t hold your breath on this one.
I
rec
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 13, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, most of all I'm still not sure if he meant Ben, Dave, or someone entirely else
That he now stylizes himself as the Andre Miller defender still seems odd to me to say the least
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
It's pretty clearly a hit on Ben; and one might reasonably assume that the big welt that Dave put on his forehead is what got his panties in a wad...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Is Ben part of the mainstream media?
Why didn’t he ride bikes with one of the players or go fishing with one?
I just want all roles clearly defined.
Either everything a guy says is fair game, or no one can call out the other guy for writing an opinion.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 13, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I like JQ and have read him for years and I think he’s still licking his wounds over Dave’s piece that ripped him apart. Even as I read about the $2.99 and Kleenex for the first time, I thought that JQ was trying to match Dave’s excellent writing style.
by billyrybates on Oct 13, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said, and Rec,
but I enjoy this inter-sports-journalist drama too much to not pick sides!
Team Ben all the way!
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
by dario argento on Oct 13, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Evidence convincingly says Ben is right
Ben says Roy played a disinterested game against the Jazz and today Roy admits that preseason games are hard to get up for and that he wants to go back to the offense of two years ago before Miller got there and when he got the ball more. Sounds like Ben nailed it.
But really, its preseason. So what? OKC got blown out at home by Memphis last night and the Nuggets got owned by the Timberwolves. Are their fans panicking?
Yesss!!!!
This is right on! I WAS at the game. Brandon WAS dogging it (with a few exceptions). And then Brandon comes out and says as much today.
by Montavilla Steve on Oct 13, 2010 9:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Kudos for Ben's analysis, Brandon's honesty...
As for Drama Queen Jason Quick doing what he does for money, well, he’s both pathetic and paid…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Yes!
Isn’t it obvious that OKC, Denver, Portland, and every other team not performing well in the preseason is doomed to have a miserable year??? I mean, clearly we can draw concrete conclusions about the 82-game regular season from this handful of preseason games! And why isn’t handful spelled with two Ls? I need answers!
I'm more concerned by this
John Canzano brought up the issue on his radio show today just before 4:00. You can download the podcast here – it’s hour #1. Here’s a transcript of what he said:
From a media standpoint – Stronger, I think you can relate to this – I wrote something critical of Nate McMillan and then was back in there today – I’m right there for him to talk with me about it. There is a dynamic that exists when you are holding someone accountable in which you must be accountable to them as well. And he wants to know what I thought or what made me think that, he’s well within his right to ask that.
And I only bring that up because yet another member of the media locally – and I use that term loosely because it’s a blogger – who claimed that Brandon Roy dogged it in the exhibition game the other night. And this is a guy who doesn’t ask questions, this is a guy who didn’t go to Brandon Roy after the game and say, "I think you dogged it today. I’m going to write about it." And I think that is part of what is lost with journalism and bloggers, because, you know, I asked Brandon Roy today, "Did you care about the guy who said that you dogged it?" And he said, "I don’t even know who that is. That’s a guy who doesn’t even ask questions, so it doesn’t bother me that somebody’s saying that I dogged it during the game." But I said, "Doesn’t it bother you that he didn’t even ask you about it?"
And, I, just, it dawned on me as Nate McMillan’s calling me in that there’s this certain degree of accountability that is mutual when it comes to that.
John writes something critical of Nate McMillan [he wrote about 6 months ago that Gentry outcoached him in the playoffs]. He then continues to go to practices so that if Coach McMillan has a problem with what he wrote, he can be held accountable.
But this blogger [who continues to remain nameless] is in the wrong because he wrote something critical of Brandon Roy and then continues going to practices so that if Brandon Roy has a problem with what he wrote, he can be held accountable?
I’ve emailed John asking him for clarification, as to me it smells of a double standard.
I'm sure John will get right back to you on that....
Canzano is probably just sticking up for his guy. Those two probably are NOT OK with the popularity of Blazer Sedge as it is replacing their stories, taking away hits from their sites, and hurting their circulation numbers. I know tons of people now that come here only for Blazers news. I wouldn’t be surprised if they both decided to make a concerted effort to go on the offensive and try to smear the Sedge.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
by dario argento on Oct 13, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Now this is a conspiracy theory that makes total sense...
except they do, or did when Gavin was around, have Ben and Dave on a few times…
I'm not talking about 95.5 here, but the Oregonian. I think the Sedge is hurting their O-live Blazers coverage, and they're ticked about it.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
by dario argento on Oct 14, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
they should love BE
the “talent” on 95.5 doesn’t have to do any Blazer-related show prep. They just come over here, read a couple of threads and run with it. Then they can say they have their finger on the pulse of Portland’s rabid fanbase
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think the Sedge is hurting O-live's numbers, not 95.5's.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."
by dario argento on Oct 14, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I have pretty clear evidence of that. I made a comment in the GDT
when Pendy went down comparing the Blazers centers to the drummers in This is Spinal Tap and John Strong used the same line a couple of days later.
#52
So he is arguing that bloggers need more complete access to the team.
I agree.
In Bayless I trust.
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Isn't he saying that ... they do have the same access?
And that our “blogger” didn’t do his job by asking questions?
but…. if they knew the question… and they have the access doesn’t it make sense that they would ask the question and get an answer?
did John record brandon? ….. I bet he didn’t and I bet he fouled up that quote up there…
I bet if our “blogger” BALLSED UP AND ASKED BRANDON WHAT HE DID SAY TO CANZANO …. our blogger would get a very diffrent quote…. yes? maybe? speculative?
I can’t spell either… but this is fun stuff.. we really need to see some basketball..
and that brings me to the other part.. who saw the game in question and is what ben wrote true?
I didn’t read much to the contrary….. just sayin.
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Welcome to the digital age John.
yet another member of the media locally – and I use that term loosely because it’s a blogger
Give me a break Canzano. Just because Ben’s medium is the web doesn’t make him less of a journalist. Casey Holdahl is Digital Reporter and he only writes on the web. Is he just a blogger?
IMO writing on the web doesn’t make you less reputable. Sure, anyone can write a blog, but in this specific case Ben is credentialed media and he should be respected as such.
Digital media, including blogs, is the future, and the future is here.
Hey Amar'e! I've got an elbow for you!
by ripcitysarah on Oct 13, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
One word pairing that I'll never use even loosely is "journalist" and "John Canzano"...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
This is stupid
and I guess I am also stupid for commenting on it.
Bloggers criticizing journalists and journalists criticizing bloggers is just a little too nerdy…even for me.
by JasonT on Oct 13, 2010 6:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The whole situation seems pretty simple to me.
Dave, a pastor, had an ethical problem with how Quick wrote his Rudy slam piece. He wrote an opinion piece on it, careful to not hang Quick at the same time.
Quick rallies his forces and, instead of addressing any ethical concern, began trolling for any mistake he could find at BEdge.
I hope the backlash of this is that BEdge gets more publicity and becomes more enshrined as a permanent media piece in covering the Blazers.
In Bayless I trust.
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I don't think you need to include the part about Dave being a pastor in that statement necessarily, but I agree that this seems a likely scenario.
But like we talked about up above, it’s all speculative.
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it is important because it highlights a manner of looking at the world.
Different professions require certain perspectives. Dave is likely more keenly aware of ethical issues because he has to deal with them daily. He also is likely to have more education and experience with ethical issues than most of us. He is equivalent to an expert testimony because of his background.
In Bayless I trust.
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you don't need to be aware of ethics or have special education to think that Quick's name calling had crossed a line. I'm not saying that Dave being a pastor doesn't give him more insight in these things
but it’s not implicit in his profession.
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 13, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
.... even pastors have faults... need we bring up burning books again?
te hehehehe… that guy was Kookoo as a loon though wasn’t he… :)
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Most pastors are keenly aware of the obvious hypocrisy of their lives.
Being imperfect while trying to help others be better.
In Bayless I trust.
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lol... whatever
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
I just want to say that I was at the game on Monday and anyone who tells you that Brandon Roy put forth any effort in that game is just lying. I saw him take maybe 5 shots tops before halftime and look completely uninterested in in closing out on his man, or rebounding, or playing any defense to speak of. Quick can say what he wants but I sure hope that wasn’t Brandon putting his best effort into a game because if it was we may be in trouble.
Watch out, Jason Quick is gonna tell Brandon on you!!!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Nice discussion
Looks like we settled it. It’s amazing how I always end up right.
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 14, 2010 1:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm just gonna ask you first next time
I'm a Greg Oden honk, yeah.
Even when I was still a Sonic fan, I liked Oden more than Kevin Durant.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 AM PDT
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 14, 2010 12:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It would be easier if I was just the guy who had to approve of all the posts that went up on this blog and editing ability
I used to go by tominhawaii. My real name is still Tom.
by LukeBabbittFTW on Oct 14, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The interview of Brandon
didn’t ultimately reflect on Brandon but on the coaching staff. Brandon candidly spoke about the blazer preseason and if the fans and the coaching staff, which couldn’t have liked the comments Brandon made, don’t like it tough. The coaching staff should be better organized and communicative(at least to the players). Nate has habit, apparently, of not listening to his players. Miller fought with him in the press and then in the locker room. It seems to me Brandon might be attempting to clear the air as soon as possible.
Clearly I'm not privy to all the facts...
but it certainly seems like JQ and JC have an axe to grind for one reason or another.
I especially like how they both drop the “blogger” tag as if it were a derogatory name. Awfully condescending for two guys who pimp their craft however possible.
Wherever you may be; good night, eeeeeeverybody!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Oct 14, 2010 12:36 PM PDT reply actions
Actually, The Oregonian is the pimp..............
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Print media is all but dead these days. It will soon be totally irrelevant. Hardcore Blazer fans get their news off the internet primarily and Quick’s Oregonlive articles leave something to be desired. We all know he purposely sensationalizes things to attract readers for the Oregonian. Hell, he’s not even the “breaking news” guy anymore with the onset of social media and the Rich Cho hire. Quick has become background noise as far as I’m concerned. As long as he has an agenda to attract readers, his stuff will always feel phony. I think he’s really only relevant to the average “armchair” fan these days. The kind of fan who, during training camp, suddenly realizes we don’t have Martell Webster anymore, etc.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
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