New Starting Five: Miller, Roy, Webster, Batum, LA
by Jonjacobmoon on Jan 31, 2010 11:50 AM PST
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In the past week, there has been quite a bit of discussion about Batum starting over Webster. While I agree Batum should start, I do not think it is a good idea to reduce Webster's minutes one bit. Webster has really come on in the past two months. His energy has been good, at times even great, and he has found the basket while also defending top notch players.
BUT, Batum clearly brings a strong defense and now he has shown an ability to find the bottom of the rim. No one disputes that Batum has what it takes to start. Well, maybe there are those who disagree, but I think they are in the minority.
The question is: can LA play the five? He may be 6' 11" but clearly is not a post up player. However, it is not unusual for teams to play centers who don't post up. Look at Brad Miller for Chicago, or Illgauskus for Cleveland. I am guessing, however, that you post LA at the five, he will step up. In the end, Juwan Howard does not have the size to really be effective, as we have seen this week against Utah, nor does he have the legs to play 30+ minutes every night.
In the end, my proposed lineup is, in my opinion, the only way to hope to make the playoffs AND it maybe the only way we get out of the first round. Start now, let them play as much as they can together and by April, they should have gelled nicely.
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As much as I want to love Martell
I just can’t. I mean, I do as a person; he seems like a nice guy. But even when he has on nights I’m just not impressed. He’s so inconsistent and very obviously feels the pressure of Batum’s presence and beefed up play. He had that at the beginning of the year too, trying to impress the coaches when he was second string and it just didn’t work. I’ve felt like Blake has suffered the same thing. He could totally prove me wrong but in my opinion a player isn’t very valuable when you have to guarantee him a starting spot or guarantee him a certain number of minutes. I think Martell is the biggest example of this on the team.
But like I said, I open the door for him to prove me wrong.
Regarding your lineup, I like it if Aldridge had any idea how to play within 15 feet of the hoop. Hell, maybe this would force him to learn, which would be grand. But I don’t think he’s strong enough to consistently go at starting centers. Same with Batum on PFs. I mean, I want to say he is given he beasted Dirk at the end, but Dirk also isn’t the most “go inside” kind of guy in the league. I think Miller-Roy-Webster could function just fine but yeah, I think when you start getting into certain games you’ll just be exposed inside (not that we have tons of other players to go to, but I just feel Howard knows enough tricks to get by despite his age).
by Seven06Renault on Jan 31, 2010 12:03 PM PST reply actions
I think that you are seeing what you want to see. What I see is that most of the players on this team are inconsistent.
One of this teams most common features is Hot and Cold Running Players. Streakiness is to be found in abundance.
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Webster got killed on the defensive end against Dallas
I love his effort, and his shot when he can find it, but I agree with Seven06Renault that Martell is not consistent enough yet to start.
I also don’t think this squad needs more rebounds. Juwan brings that.
it's a simple conclusion
But it sums it up quite well. No identity to this team, as yet, because we are still “holding ground” till all the parts return.
I do think we should plan the team around no center, and try to get the rotation reduced to say eight players. This will leave some favorites reduced to game match ups or other part time roles. To get consistency this team needs to develop some rhythm…to get some rhythm, players will need an adequate amount of minutes.
You have this backwards
Aldridge makes teams pay when they defend him with their center. Kendrick Perkins, Bogut, Okafor, and Okur all played him for short minutes recently because he takes these guys right into the middle and scores. Then he fakes to the middle and drives baseline and scores and he draws fouls against the slower bigger defenders. It is when he is guarded by West, Wallace, Garnett, Boozer, and Millsap when he tends to fade. He can’t get around these guys and can’t power over them so he chooses to try to fake the power move and fade and is less successful. LA would be a force if you could convince NBA coaches to defend him with their centers.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
You don't like Aldridge at center
because he isn’t an inside scoring threat?
As if Juwan is? Howard’s points are all coming on jumpers, with the occasional putback.
Which is a better 4-5 tandem, Aldridge/Howard or Batum/Aldridge?
Realizing Aldridge isn’t ideal at the 5, but neither is Juwan. And Nic did ok for us at the 4 against Dirk.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Howard's experience outweighs Aldridge's ... whatever his advantage is ... youth?
I mean yeah I’d rather have Batum in the game but unless the numbers suggest otherwise I just haven’t really seen much of Aldridge at center where I’m thinking “this could really work.” What happens on defense? He’d get powered down everytime.
by Seven06Renault on Feb 2, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
This could work against some opponents ...
and I’d guess we’ll see it before the season’s over. Batum can guard guys like Dirk all day long, but I wouldn’t put him up against Pau/Odom, Randolph, Scola, etc. There are a lot of PFs in this league who would destroy that matchup down low. But yeah, based on the matchup it’s a possibility.
The fact is Batum is our starting SF for many years to come. He’ll win it back by the end of the year, and we’ll probably go with Miller, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, and Howard/Pendy based on the matchup. Could even be Oden in the playoffs.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jan 31, 2010 12:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
yeah
I think Batum has under rated strength, but putting him up against back to the basket 4’s night in night out would be killer on his body. Against teams like Mil who’s only 4’s are stretch, it’ll work (ilysova(sp?), Warrick).
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
What I think you are saying is that the lineup should be altered to fit each given opponent which makes sense to me.
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I <3 LMA, but even I want more!
The PENDERBEAST is on the Prowl Looking for an Opposing 4 or 5 to DEVOUR!!!!!!!!!!
I'd like to see it... LMA's backed up Pzrybilla @ the 5 in years past with some success
This year should definitely be labeled the ‘Season of Experimentation’. Quick plug for Mills as well: Play him Coach Nate! Let’s see what he can do! :)
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I would like to see Mills given some run in certain situations as well.
I wish that he had been given a chance to play against Aaron Brooks, and given the outcome of that game I don’t where it would have hurt us much.
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
I <3 LMA, but even I want more!
The PENDERBEAST is on the Prowl Looking for an Opposing 4 or 5 to DEVOUR!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed.
Let him run!
It is like when we got that stiff from the D league who couldn’t play good enough solid Nate ball and D up. But that wasn’t his strength. His strength was scoring/offense. Same with Patty Mills, it seems. Still, he might be quick enough to hang a little bit with some of the quick guys we can’t handle.
I don’t know what Nate does, but I would like to see if he could.
That's the scoring lineup
Our D is fundamentally flawed for the year (without guys to defend the rim). We are only going as far as our offense takes us this year (barring a trade). At the very least it would be fun to see that lineup.
by Sound_Automatic on Jan 31, 2010 1:11 PM PST reply actions
Agreed ... but
Yes, that is a scoring lineup. And, yes, our D is flawed without our big men. But I am not sure that starting Howard comes close to solving this problem (no offense to Howard, who has been awesome). As stated above, Batum may be overmatched physically by the likes of Randolph (Zach) and Gasol (either one), but he might be the best we have against the Dirk’s and Josh Smith’s of the league.
Would I rather start Batum at the three along with Oden? We all would. Given our current personnel, I think we maximize his defense in any way possible. If a team allows us to play LA and Batum down low, this is to our advantage.
Now if you really want a scoring lineup, put Rudy in at the three and throw caution to the wind. With Roy out, I am not sure I wouldn’t just go with Miller/Bayless/Rudy/Batum/LA as much as possible.
by unemployedreflection on Jan 31, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
I think Martell's game suffers only from his thinking too much. When he starts and has no
fear of the “hook” or whatever…he playes very well. I don’t think he cares one bit whether or not he starts. He just seems to need minutes to play well. Don’t quite get what the deal is…it’s not ego..seems more like insecurity. I like Batum’s play better only because he is very very focused and seems to know what is going to happen before it does. Martell is very athletic but gets distracted at times. I think he could be a starter alongside Batum against teams that would allow this line up.
by Natsthecat on Jan 31, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with your analysis of Martell. rec
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I <3 LMA, but even I want more!
The PENDERBEAST is on the Prowl Looking for an Opposing 4 or 5 to DEVOUR!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, but your analysis shows exactly why it wouldn't work
Martell would never be able to handle going from starting to bench on a night-to-night basis. He craves consistency.
Yeah...sports psychologist...or maybe just some BATUM/BAYLESS lessons...wouldn't that be nice.
(In the never ? yourself category)
We shouldn't be all hot on Martell the guy had one good month
he is a back up as much as blake is…
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
Of course, it depends on the matchups
Against Utah, while Boozer was killing LMA down low, Batum could’ve guarded Okur, I suppose
the great thing about Nic is that he can defend just about anyone. (Except Ron Artest, he can’t defend Ron-Ron, as we saw last April.) With that in mind, why would anyone think that he’s a good choice for starting PF? Because he’s a little taller than Martell? Webster has a much better chance of bodying-up against physical NBA forwards than Batum. Fortunately, most NBA teams don’t have more than one “bruiser” PF/C on the floor at any given time, so as long as Nic doesn’t have to guard Ron-Ron, or Melo, or Maggette, he’ll be OK. I’d rather save Batum for the other team’s best perimeter player, though. Whether that be a penetrating PG or a “Euro PF” like Dirk, who had skinny Batum on him and couldn’t even back him down past the FT line.. Sheesh
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Batum is back !
Nicolas should start ! It seems like at the start of the games there has been zero energy and zero defense. Without energy and defense the Blazers have been getting into up to 20 point holes and have to try to dig out of them. Why start off a game losing only to try to win later ? Batum will help bring many more victories and more offense also
I like that the Martell/Nicolas argument is even debatable.
At the beginning of the year, it wasn’t even close. Now, a case can be made, and Batum has been bringing it since he returned. Good news, good news.
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not to mention webster has virtually disappeared since Batum's return.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
I was thinking of the same thing
In this lineup we can take advantage of a couple mismatchs. With Batum at the four and LA at the five they could spread the paint and woul make it much easier for our guards to score. Also, with Batum and LA they would be much quicker than their opponent and we could really kill teams on the fast breaks, and we would really make teams have to work on defense. Plus, we wouldn’t really be giving much height up as LA is just as tall as any other center and Batum is only maybe an inch shorter than other pf but his length would easily make up for it.
by philthebballplayer on Jan 31, 2010 9:53 PM PST reply actions
I like any idea that get Batum in the starting 5
and with our personnel right now this is a pretty decent lineup. I have no real problem with LA playing the 5 given our circumstances and i think taking Martell out of the starting lineup now will simply put him back into the funk that a confidence-lacking Martell becomes.
Bottom line is we need Nic on the floor as much as possible! he simply made Dirk take 4 very contested jumpers at the end of the game the other night and is clearly the guy making things happen on the defensive end. our teams offense is fine, what we have been lacking this year is consistent D…Nic brings that and then some. He could be our second best player
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