Greg Oden Admits Nude Pictures Are Real, Apologizes, Is "Embarrassed"
by Ben Golliver on Jan 26, 2010 6:56 PM PST
in News
Email
PrintAt 5 PM this evening, the Portland Trail Blazers announced via text message alert to the local media that Greg Oden would hold a press conference at 6PM at the Blazers Practice Facility in Tualatin to discuss nude self-portraits that were leaked onto the internet early this morning. (Back story here.)
Shortly after 6PM, Oden emerged from Nate McMillan's office by himself, wearing a red Nike jumpsuit, a black "Team Oden" t-shirt, white Air Force 1s. Oden walked with the help of a wooden cane as he is still recovering from a season-ending broken Patella suffered in December. He was met by a large group of local television, print and internet reporters. Oden sat on a stool to answer questions, clasping a walking cane in both hands.
His mood was somber and his voice wavered but he answered questions directly and honestly for more than 10 minutes. Members of the Blazers' Public Relations staff hovered nearby but did not interrupt the questioning until after Oden had made it clear multiple times that he needed to move along to a rehabilitation and therapy session with the team's trainer, Jay Jensen, but the questions continued.
During his remarks, Oden stated that the nude pictures had been taken for a "lady friend" he had been "in a relationship with over a year and a half ago." He said he was no longer in contact with the person for whom the pictures had been taken. Oden clearly sent the pictures to someone he trusted and noted that when he saw the pictures online this morning, "My heart just dropped."
Oden said he had grown a lot as a person in the last year or two and that he no longer takes and sends similar photographs because the internet and social media allow for such rapid distribution of private materials from person to person.
A new low on the Blazers beat came when an unidentified and unfamiliar female media member asked Oden if perhaps he shouldn't feel so unhappy about the pictures because "a lot of people are impressed." Oden tilted his head to the side, shrugged his shoulders and chose his words carefully but seemed slightly rattled by the question. He also noted that he would surely be the butt of jokes from his teammates for a long time to come.
(Update 9:21PM: The media member was Beth Slovic of the Willamette Week. I won't link her piece but it's out there.)
First I would like to apologize to everybody in Portland, the fans, the organization. It's very embarrassing. It was something that happened over a year and a half ago. It was taken over a year and a half ago, I'm very sorry and I'm definitely embarrassed for my family.
Joe Freeman of The Oregonian has a transcript of the press conference, which includes questions and answers about his sponsorships, whether Oden plans to take legal action, and whether he is taking classes at PSU.
Brian T. Smith of The Columbian has a full story regarding the photographs.
Oden also appeared on John Canzano's Bald Faced Truth radio program on 95.5FM to discuss the photographs prior to addressing the media at the team's Practice Facility. Listen to the audio of this interview by clicking here.
During an interview with Blazers Broadcaster Mike Barrett on Comcast's Courtside television program taped after his press conference, Oden stated that although he still wants to return this season, the doctors have not set a definitive timetable for his return.
Here is a brief video from the press conference.
Click through for some pictures.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
A bunch of pictures...
After the Press Conference, Oden walked to the Blazers' training area to undergo treatment with Blazers trainer Jay Jensen.
Oden clasped this wooden cane as he spoke to reporters. The wristbands are in memory of his friend Travis Smith, who passed away.
Despite the drama, Greg stays clean in these all-white Air Force 1s.
Video and pictures c/o Ben Golliver | Blazersedge
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Comments
he needs to cheer up
jeez, its just a nude
Odenized
by CroRupt on Jan 26, 2010 7:01 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Could be considered art.
Greg the artist.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Jan 26, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
Portland is still behind you big guy.
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((o))
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i was about to self reply that exact same thing.
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((o))
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Hey everyone it's Paul Lynde!
"We didn't start the fire. It was always burning. Since the world's been turning." - E. E. Cummings
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Jan 26, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
Hey ....no one remembers who Paul Lynde is
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
I do.
The guy was a scream.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yup
One of those TV stars of a forgotten era – a closeted openly gay man (like Charles Nelson Reilly). You could pretty much put pictures of both of them next to the definition of ‘Camp’.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly were gay?
Please don’t tell me that the Lone Ranger and Tonto were lovers (though I am aware he had this fling with his horse. Must have read about Cathrine the Great in school.)
Next thing you’ll be telling me that the relationship between batman and Robin was not above board.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Sorry brother
Jm J. is also light in the loafers
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Pssst...
So was Wayne Flowers (not sure about Madame)
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Jan 29, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody will even remember this in two weeks
In the meantime we need to find a fine balance of sympathy for Greg and clever jokes about the male genitalia.
by GMan83201 on Jan 26, 2010 7:04 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I really feel for the guy
I think he is handling it perfectly just being honest, nothing left to “discover”.
Good that he has his team mates to laugh this off with him.
My comtempt is toward whoever betrayed this trust and released the pictures.
Really low.
End of story. Just need to get back to playing.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
by Berkeley on Jan 26, 2010 7:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
bro pretty funny that this story is immediately preceded by blazers edge night with a picture of a kid holding a "rise with us" balloon at waist height.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Jan 26, 2010 7:12 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
this is funny
(our) great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit, our system of of credit is privately concentrated, the growth of our nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
--- Woodrow Wilson
hey you
how are you?
"My teammates like me, they enjoy me. I'm not being too dominant in the locker room or anything like that. As long as all the things are good, I'm having fun." ~Brandon Roy
by hisblazergrrrl on Jan 29, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Rec
"Easy for you to say coach, you don't have Big Greg rolling up on your blind side about to lay the wood to you." - Batum
by No you di'nt on Jan 26, 2010 8:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Did you have that one on standby, in case something like this ever happened? Too good. That said, Oregon local media should lie down and accept their irrelevance. Leave the man be. Eighth grade was a lot of fun, but now its time to move on.
by Steermpz Callahann on Jan 27, 2010 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
I'll never look at that slogan
the same way again.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I know there is a joke somewhere in here in regards to the picture of his shoe...
RUDY > MJ
But, of course, if I could make a dunk on his face I would. - Rudy
Feel bad for the dude.
Nude pictures are embarssing, but as far as i’m concerned he has nothing to apologize for. Seriously. Who cares.
by moflow on Jan 26, 2010 7:16 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
You don't need to apologize, Greg!
You didn’t do anything wrong. When you get arrested or harm someone, we’ll worry then. This is perfectly okay behavior.
by sagcat on Jan 26, 2010 7:16 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Agreed. He didn't hurt anyone.
But he might have scared a few people!
Seeking whimsy
www.cdbaby.com/artist/year5000
by Y5k on Jan 26, 2010 7:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Even with all this, he's still a class act.
Doesn’t blame anyone but himself, doesn’t lash out. I love him.
Seeking whimsy
www.cdbaby.com/artist/year5000
by Y5k on Jan 26, 2010 7:21 PM PST via mobile reply actions 8 recs
he came right out and said it was the wrong thing to do
and apologized.
McGwire should take note. – Elgin
OK...so girls in movies where guys wear hockey masks have a better survival rate than the average Blazer player. - Dave
How much can a person mature in one day?
We may just get to see. The rehab news sounds good also.
#52+1.5
Dont sweat it Greg
If you start a gun collection I will get worried.
by southern oregon on Jan 26, 2010 7:23 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Enough
It’s not the first time a basketball player did something stupid and nobody was harmed.
by adam32492 on Jan 26, 2010 7:28 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
or Glass cane from Unbreakable...
oh wait… that was didn’t work out so well for Samuel Jackson.
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((o))
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over/under
on Quick causing excessive drama about the situation and calling Oden an immature, morally corrupt young man?
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((o))
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by Dep H on Jan 26, 2010 7:31 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
One thing is for sure.
He won’t be saying that the photos are “underwhelming”…
RUDY > MJ
But, of course, if I could make a dunk on his face I would. - Rudy
by Rudiculous on Jan 26, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
you've seen the photos?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Can't believe I was the first one to rec this
too funny.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 27, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Reactionary, opportunistic hack
just looking for ratings/controversy. Don’t waste your brain listening to him. I don’t.
Cannibal Atheist
by NoiseMekanik on Jan 26, 2010 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yep--Quick sold out long ago
He’s become Canzano lite. Really, they’re both following a very old, tired playbook. But it still works. Like they say, if it smells, it sells. And Quick and Canzano both smell to high heavens. I stopped reading / listening to them both awhile ago. Ecchh.
As for GO, all I can say is thank God I wasn’t famous—and there was no internet—when I was 20 years old.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
Quick is a waste of air, time and ink...
food, paper, water, etc.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
So a girl just asked me why I would want to see nude pictures of Greg Oden
And I said because I wanted to see how big his weiner was. What are your reasons for looking?
by ODEN on a stick on Jan 26, 2010 7:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
So when do you change your name ...
… to Oden’s Stick?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
not a big deal
embarrassing, yes. but don’t worry, greg, this really isn’t a big deal.
He can still win a Senate seat if he would ever run for one.
Who cares. This will blow over soon without a trace and for that I am glad. Keep your head up Greg!
Does the word "embarrassed" come from "bare assed?" Help me out.
by oregonslee on Jan 26, 2010 7:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
bah
he’s making us google.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
How is this even an issue?
I’m confused.
In Bayless I trust.
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><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
And who hasn't had pictures taken of them naked?
This all makes me like Greg a bit more.
In Bayless I trust.
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><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
No kidding!
Damn I kinda wish someone would “leak” mine that are out there [not ashamed :-o].
This HAS to happen all the time, to non-celeb folks. It is only an issue because he is a celeb. So what. Hopefully everyone will be reasonably grown up about it…except for some gentle razzing, etc.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
Just promise us you won't post yours.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
5,
5 dollar,
……
(our) great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit, our system of of credit is privately concentrated, the growth of our nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
--- Woodrow Wilson
by ptwnblzr on Jan 26, 2010 7:43 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
foot longggggggggggggggggggggggg
Odenized
by CroRupt on Jan 26, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice .... Nice
Seeking whimsy
www.cdbaby.com/artist/year5000
by Y5k on Jan 26, 2010 9:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Classic...
So, I guess if Greg loses some sponsors over this, Subway would be first in line to take up the slack?
Hmm… does this mean the Blazers championship centers will go from Dollar Bill to $5 Greg? Dang inflation…
Okay so the BlAzers' Uni's already have a red A on them
even when it says “PortlAnd,” so what else can we do?
Even if he went public with his nude image, so what? Actors and actresses get naked in movies all the time. Hell, Avatar has extremely tall, incredibly fit, naked people running around all over it’s three hours, and it’s going to be nominated for like 10 Oscars.
Greg would get 12 Oscars if his pictures were a movie.
In Bayless I trust.
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><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
When Greg stops walking with that cane,
Everyone but Quick and Canzano will forget all about this….
Small ball does not win championships.....
Go Blazers !!
He's got that "cane" for life
by ODEN on a stick on Jan 26, 2010 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'd be more worried
If it was a pimp stick. I’m fine with the ‘grandpa cane’.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
...
So what? That’s his business not anyone else. He doesn’t have to apologize to us. What he does in his personal life is his business, and he was just unlucky that that these pictures surfaced up on the internet. The only people he needs to apologize is his mama, and the franchise for bringing some questionable publicity, G.O. if you read this We got your back. Don’t worry about those from generations back, those of us our are 20’s and younger know that you did absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. you were just unlucky, we’re the one’s who gonna grow with you as you rock the franchise with b roy for the next decade. oh, and Get well soon.
I wonder what Ron Artest would say if something like this happened to him
by ODEN on a stick on Jan 26, 2010 8:14 PM PST reply actions
I wonder what the reaction would've been
if the photo had been Rebecca Haarlow.
I feel like people more harshly accuse females for this kind of behavior. Just look at every trashy celebrity who has nude photos — the media has a field day. The consensus response in this post seems to be “so what?”
Portland > Tacoma
by CaptainSexyJacob on Jan 26, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know it says alot about our society.
Unfortunatly the difference between men and women does exist. Reverse the gender roles and you are labeled a whore. As I posted above, Scott Brown a republican just won a senate seat in Mass. with prior nude photos taken of him. Had he been a woman, forget it.
So glad someone else brought this disgusting double standard up so I don’t have to.
Well said csj
Sophia \ Twitter : @sophiabiabia
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 26, 2010 9:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I tend to say
so what about hte females too… although I admit to then googling.
The female celebrities that I’d have issue with are the ones who go out and get trashed constantly. I’m not a fan of that behavior. Oden doesn’t go out to get trashed (or at least not so much it hits the press).
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
There is such a double standard for some people, but not for 90% of us.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Probably twitter the URL.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
I'm disappointed in the doo-rag.
also, “Click Through for Pictures” did not lead to what I was expecting.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
The ho and
Shirt that said I effed this girl was much worse but who really cares he’s a guy raise your hand if you’ve never done something harmless and stupid move on
by doomsdaymachine on Jan 26, 2010 8:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
That Frat Party shirt has to go.
So, if a “media member” interviewed a Blazer after the game, the player is likely be in the nude, right. And the media member may be a she, right? And, this is in person and in a semi-private / semi-public place. And us humans can deal with it.
Yet, to look at a picture of Greg is a scandal? Its not like its pornographic or illegal.
This was a private photo intended to be kept private. Less damaging, but still both the shirt and the photo are bad PR moves, unless Greg intends to go all Bad Boy on us. He’s just a young pup who will be thinking a lot more now about his actions. I hope.
And one can’t even make a sarcastic comment because of all the resulting puns.
At least I can still say:
Greg Oden is the Blazers Edge!!!
That was like a poem
It was beautiful, man.
#52 by Mortimer on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 PM PST
I’m pretty sure the players don’t get interviewed in the nude these days. That said, I also agree that I found the shirt to be a bigger lapse in judgment than the existence of these photos.
The shirt, worn out in the open
Definitely shows more of a maturity gap than the private photos, BUT… I go easy on young peoples.
As long as he ain’t doing anything real bad, I can’t get too worked up over it, and I’m assuming he just thinks the shirt is cute and funny.
Kids!
Morty
#52
Dear Greg,
I have this script laying around that I wrote a while back. Boogie Nights 2. Let me know if youre interested.
rec
for having your screen name long before all this happened.
I think my sig file is going to change though. – Elgin
OK...so girls in movies where guys wear hockey masks have a better survival rate than the average Blazer player. - Dave
At least we know...
He’s not a nevernude.
by emc503 on Jan 26, 2010 9:09 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Oh Yes!
Thank God for that. Those guys give me the creeps!
by Jeffe Portland on Jan 27, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Rec for the Arrested Development reference
Well played, sir. Well played.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Hardly a scandal.
Just embarrassing. I feel bad for the dude.
Also, isn’t it illegal to release nude photos of someone without their consent? I know it happens to celebrities all the time, but it’s not like it was a public showing like Brittany Spears getting out of her car, babymaker exposed. Their are celebrity sex tapes and all, but it seems like a very gray area. Seems at least lawsuit material.
I think the best thing for him would be to keep a restrained sense of humor about it. At least in a way that won’t anger the team or league officials. Gestures on court like Arenas, while funny in Greg’s case, would probably not be appropriate. But if he can laugh it off, the media can’t real get to him and will drop in sooner.
Cannibal Atheist
Slow news day in Portland
No worries Greg no one who has their head on straight is going to think any less of you over something like this. Just rehab and get back on the court stronger than ever!
O.R.
exactly. great kid. it'll work out.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
"rapid distribution of private materials"???
oof…
but yeah, this thing will blow over soon enough.
You rule, Greg. Sorry that happened to you. Keep your spirits up, man—-not everyone in this world is a vulture trying to leech your essence like some skeksi princess. There are good people out there you can trust and I hope you find many of them to rely on in this life. You’re a likable guy so I don’t see that being a problem.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2010 9:31 PM PST reply actions
quote
total non-issue for me
this has nothing to do with him as a person, or how he plays the game of basketball. Good kid, stupid idea. big deal.
I think that is pretty much the general consensus of most of the people who weren’t looking for a reason to hate/make fun of Greg in the first place. At least thats how I view it.
Ditto.
Big deal, who cares. ..I will say that Tiger Woods would have saved his career if he did what Greg did today.
by osu_fugitive on Jan 26, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
maybe
Lets not forget there was actual wrongdoing on Tigers part.
Greg Oden took a picture of himself naked. There is nothing immoral about it in the least.
You're right, but..
it seems like Americans are lot more forgiving of celebrities the sooner they fess up to any blemish they find themselves in. Anymore, hiding from the truth is more of a crime than the crime itself.
by osu_fugitive on Jan 26, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
in that regard, its more that the media sticks with the story because of the "gotcha angle" and "did he do it? We have new news that may indicate he did" angle. The more coverage, the more people talk about it and groan about it and ultimately
critique the person. That being said, this and tiger woods is apples to oranges as far as what they did. I don’t think it should be a big deal.
On a related subject, I wouldn’t make a big fuss about it if it were indeed Haarlow or any other woman, but I can’t help but imagine it would be received entirely differently by society as a whole-which is sad.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Looking forward to your return, Greg...
just try to stay away from off-court shenanigans:)
Growing tired of all the "trade Aldridge for Bosh" talk. Do you think we could package LA and three of our good players for Bosh - with no guarantee Bosh would sign with Portland in the summer? Do you think KP is stupid?
The Willamette Week can be such classes trash
And they prove it once again. Some of their pieces can be great, but they pull this can of crap all the time.
If you want to comment
to the hack from WW who asked the STUPID question you can comment on the article: Here. I will definitely let her know how I feel. What a loser.
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
What would have happened if Greg had said
“Thanks. Would you like to interview me after rehab?”
I can see her big smile now… blushing…
or would she take offense?
Maybe she has her own pictures in cyberspace? She moonlights as a judge at Chippendales on amateur night? What led her to make that remark? Was she just trying to be nice? I’ll have to check out the article to see how she plays it…
That was like a poem
It was beautiful, man.
#52 by Mortimer on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 PM PST
Seems she was actually trying to be nice...
she just didn’t think Greg had done anything wrong,
and I think she was just, uhmm, complementing him to put him at ease.
She saw that he didn’t react well to her statement.
Oh well, here goes…
Its kind of like nobody else was wanting to talk about the big elephant in the room.
I’d cut her some slack, she’s getting slammed pretty hard already in her comments (although the G.O. statue suggestion has some merit, maybe in front of City Hall next to the helpful hand of Portlandia?) , and I withdraw any notion of my obviously inflammatory outrageous speculations, save, she was trying to be nice. Actually, the article is not a bad summary.
That was like a poem
It was beautiful, man.
#52 by Mortimer on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 PM PST
I thought it was pretty funny.
Obviously it may have been a bad time for a joke like that. Myself, I would have laughed, and then just explained why it wasn’t alright with me. But i tend to deal with stress with laughter anyway.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
i dont get it
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 27, 2010 6:47 AM PST up reply actions
team solidarity
rest of Blazers should release topless picks…
BTW, I love Greg's new goatee.
It looks especially good on him, 3rd picture down, where he looks like he’s just about to crack somebody’s skull open. I wanna see that Greg play against Nene and Bynum.
Its no big deal.
Every blazer fan had already seen Greg in the low post!
Allen Iverson should decline his allstar spot!
-Charles Barkley-
its uncanny
the few, the proud, the blazers
by HD on Jan 26, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah! ZOMG!!1!11!!!eleventy-one!!1!!
Or they’re both defensive black bball centers with goatees.
PS what’s with Bill’s friend: X face?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
its in the eyes dude
also that x is epic, oden is ftw, oden will dunk on someone next year and u can book it, and lastly not putting bro on that list is an epic fail
the few, the proud, the blazers
no
bill looks MEAN.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I don't know...
I heard about this story as I was going to work. Then I listened to the radio and Odens address to the media. On the way home from work, I listened to a national sports radio program. The host communicated what many here have communicated, that he felt it was a non-issue, a mistake of youth.
I come home, log on to the computer and check in on Blazersedge. More of the same. With the strong majority of the people and fans supporting Greg by proclaiming that he has done nothing criminal or wrong. With opinions not really swaying very far, from people feeling sorry for Greg to people thinking it’s entirely a non-story or should be.
I’ll take the risk of making myself sound like a prude, or a hypocrite or a sanctimonious “better than thou’er”, but do we need someone to play the devils advocate here?
In human existence, there are earthquakes in Haiti, wars in the Middle East, and far too many people going hungry every night. So yes, The fact that a 20 something Greg Oden made the decision to take pictures of himself nude and give/send them to someone who later betrayed him by releasing them into a public arena really shouldn’t rate very high on anyones “is this REALLY a problem scale” . But what bothers me more than the reality itself is everyones reaction to it.
Yes, I’m getting older. I’m early 40’s and not of Gregs generation. But all day all I’ve heard was how this was “Okay”. I’ve heard how “all young people do this” how it’s pretty common. How lot’s of people Odens age and younger do this. I listened to John Canzano’s show and heard how he thought that if you grabbed almost any young persons camera cell phone you would find some “juicy” pictures. Today was the first time I heard the term “Sexting” along with the assurance that many young people do this. It’s common. REALLY? Maybe I live a sheltered life, maybe I am a prude, or sanctimonious…maybe I am, but if that’s true I’m still very, very sad.
Does anyone have the guts to say that “maybe” this is wrong? That maybe Greg Oden should apologize? I mean, I’ve read posters in this thread saying Greg has nothing to apologize for. Well supposedly when he awoke from is Micro-Fracture surgery Oden was apologizing to Kevin Pritchard. I remember thinking at the time when I heard KP relate that story that Oden had nothing to apologize for, that being injured or needing Micro Fracture surgery wasn’t Odens fault and not something he needed to apologize for, but we all loved hearing that he apologized for that, because it built the image of a caring young man that wanted to do his best for The Portland Trailblazers. Today he apologizes for taking Nude pictures of himself and having them appear in the public domain of the internet. So he shouldn’t apologize for that?
I don’t know, I’m mostly just sad about this whole thing. Like I said, maybe I am a prude, maybe I am sanctimonious or self righteous, I don’t think I am, but I can’t really just say this is all okay with me.
I don’t hate Greg Oden, and I’m not mad at him but I am disappointed. I swear if he was sitting across from me I’d just ask him what the hell he thought he was doing. I wouldn’t tell him what he did was Okay. I’d tell him what he did was incredibly stupid. Preaching? Maybe a little, but I’d tell him for his own good. I’m sad that a Greg Oden and evidently a lot of our youth could reach the age of 20 and think this is acceptable behavior and/or a good way to communicate with one another. Yes, technology has made it possible, but as an old man of 40 something, I can tell you that there was a time when casual exchange of nude pictures of one another was NOT part of the building of a normal relationship.
Outside of this specific example it saddens me that as a society we seem, in my opinion, to justify the disintegration of standards more and more with the proclamation that it’s just what everyone does, or it’s okay because it’s not illegal.
I guess it also bothers me that within his apology Greg apologized to the fans, the organization and his family and admitted that he was very embarassed but did he ever say what he did was stupid? Or that he wished he never had done it? I can’t tell if he’s sorry that he did it, or just sorry that he was ever caught.
Alright flame me. Hate me because I’m not just jumping on the “This is all Okay” bandwagon. Label me a Prude, Hypocrite, Sanctimonious Bastard, whatever you wish. But I can say that I can accept Odens apology and simultaneously believe he should of given one, I can understand that he never meant any of this to be public. But again, if I was sitting across from Oden, I’d want him to understand that I think as people, as a community, as a planet, we are better if we strive to hold each other to higher standards- not lower. I’d rather hope for a world where young people communicate in nobler ways than texting pictures of themselves nude.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Jan 26, 2010 11:30 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
props for being honest
I’m not gonna flame you, but I don’t think he needed to apologize for anything. I guess it comes down to the argument that this is an act between two consenting adults who can make their own decisions and it is not harmful. He didn’t post naked pictures of himself on the internet nor did he intend to get them out. Someone else did. That person should apologize and be lambasted, not Greg. Oden took pictures of himself for his “lady friend” and presumably her alone.
In your judgement, that is not a healthy part of a relationship and that’s fine. You don’t have to participate in such actions. Sex/sexuality is a healthy part of relationships and people explore their sexuality differently. I guess in the end its important to keep that in mind and be respectful of people’s decisions.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Jan 26, 2010 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That being said
I think this was pretty boneheaded on his part. More because he’s a celebrity. You’re in the public eye more and I don’t think its advisable for any celebrity/athlete to act in such a way. No matter how slim the chances seem at the time, doing something like this leaves yourself open to this type of outcome. That can color the public’s perception and affect your endorsements, PR, deals, movies if you’re an actor, and ultimately the track of your career. (In fact the only way it can be a good thing for you is if you’re a kim kardashian / paris hilton type who is actually famous almost entirely due to their sexual exploits.)
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I've noticed that the phrase "it's healthy to explore one's sexuality" ...
.. . is frequently used as an excuse for sex without responsibility.
Which gives us such lovely things like unwanted pregnancies, abortions, teenage and unwed mothers, single parent families, widespread STD’s, the list goes on. I don’t mean to pass judgement on or cast stones at anyone. I am only pointing out that passing off such irresponsibility as simply exploring one’s sexuality is to turn a blind eye to the consequences of such exploration.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I completely disagree with you
lovely things like unwanted pregnancies, abortions, teenage and unwed mothers, single parent families, widespread STD’s
I would say these are much more the result of the lack of quality sexual education programs as well as the appallingly inadequate access to contraception in large swaths of the country.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
And I agree with this
The correlation between abstinence-only sex education and rates of teenage pregnancy and STDs in those states is (perhaps counterintuitively) high.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
Just curious ... do you have kids?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I do not.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Why do you ask?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Because it might impact you opinions on this.
You may expect that they will become sexually active upon hitting high school (and hopefully not sooner), and you likely will remain non-judgemental towards them, but I’m betting you will really hope they don’t and will worry about it.
And I would suggest the reason is that even though you don’t believe it makes them “bad”, you also know that there are very real consequences whose odds of occuring go up by their engaging in such behavior.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
We have sexual education in Britain
from a very young age (7 I think, in most places now), and easy access to contraception throughout the country, and we have all of those things in higher proportions than you do, I am sure.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Ah, yes
But let’s not forget the British are dumb.
(how else do you explain British Leyland and Lucas Electrics?)
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
So it is ok for teenagers to have sex ...
… just as long as they practice safe sex? It’s ok for two unmarried people to “hookup” for one night of sex and go their seperate ways, so long as each makes sure they both are using contraceptives and that the other has recently been tested for STD’s and has a copy of the test results?
You have just provided the perfect example of dismissing personal responsibility by saying that the primary reason we have the problems I iterated is because an amorphous “we” is at fault for not providing something.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
you asked this as a hypothetical, I think
It’s ok for two unmarried people to "hookup" for one night of sex and go their seperate ways, so long as each makes sure they both are using contraceptives and that the other has recently been tested for STD’s and has a copy of the test results?
But I’ll answer it anyway. I do think it’s okay. I don’t behave that way, because my parents didn’t raise me with those morals. But I don’t see how it affects me as a member of this society if other people behave that way, so long as they’re not getting pregnant or spreading disease. I have no doubt you’re fundamentally opposed to that viewpoint, which is of course your right.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
I think it is irresponsible and possibly damaging to one or both parties.
I can say I would advise someone not to engage in it. Not sure if that fits your definition of “fundamentally opposed” to it.
I would also point out that the “little” caveat you include is not so little. It is the “as long as they are not getting pregnant or spreading disease” caveat. That’s a problem on two levels. First, it differs little from saying it is ok to drive drunk so long as you don’t have an accident. The second is that pregnancy and STD’s are occuring.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I agree with your first two statements, actually.
I also think people having casual sex without using contraceptives is bad, so we agree there too. I just don’t think it makes sense to lump safe, protected sex in with unprotected, unsafe sex and say that they’re equivalent, because I don’t see how they are.
Re: driving drunk as long as you don’t have an accident. There’s no safe level of driving drunk, and there’s no way to reduce to essentially zero the likelihood that you’re going to hit somebody driving drunk. The chances that you’re going to get pregnant or get somebody pregnant using a condom and with the female taking birth control is essentially zero. I don’t think that’s a good comparison.
Pregnancy and STDs ARE occurring, and that’s bad. We agree again. But they aren’t occurring cuz of the people who are having safe, protected sex, and when that’s the case, I don’t have a problem with the action.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
You'll have to define why pregnancy is bad
I suppose.
I mean, it’s entirely natural. Why does it become bad to do this if a pregnancy results?
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Unintended pregnancy outside of a committed long-term relationship = bad
for all kinds of reasons.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Almost always bad, I should say
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
A crack in your moral position
I’m glad you picked it up before I had to point it out.
If it isn’t always bad, then your definition of what makes casual sex moral or immoral breaks down.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
If it isn’t always bad, then your definition of what makes casual sex moral or immoral breaks down.
I’m not sure it does…but again, it’ll have to wait until I get off work. Something to look forward to!
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
here's why I don't agree with the following quote
If [unintended pregnancy outside of a committed, long-term relationship] isn’t always bad, then your definition of makes casual sex moral or immoral breaks down.
No, it doesn’t. Something doesn’t have to ALWAYS be bad for me to be opposed to it happening; on the balance of things, it just has to bring more harm than good.
Not every unintended pregnancy ends up being a bad thing. If a child is unintentionally conceived and brought into this world by a loving parent or parents, and she or they raise the child well and keep the rest of the elements of their lives in order, then I wouldn’t call that a bad thing.
Unfortunately, in the large majority of unintended pregnancies (at least in this country), that shining idyll is not the result. Over a million abortions occur annually in the U.S. alone, the vast majority of which are performed because of an unintended pregnancy. Even if the mother decides to bring the child to term, the negative outcomes that correlate with being born to a single unwed mother are jaw-dropping in their strength and consistency.
Hence, “almost always a bad thing.”
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 29, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
Just an aside on the drunk driving part.
The numbers show that the BAC of drivers involved in drunk driving related accidents is 2.0 or greater for a large majority of the incidents. A very significant pewrcentage of these are people who are repeat offenders and driving with licenses that are rescinded or revoked.
The point here is that the vast majority of people who drink and then drive do so without ever getting in an accident. They have “safely” driven after drinking. It is he probability of their being involved in an accident is greater. The same applies with sex. Contreception and devices such as condums are not full proof and even if they were, a significant portion of people don’t or won’t use them.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
so to take your position to that anology:
You would be diametrically opposed to driving drunk even if it were always safe with no accidents of any sort as a result of the drunkeness?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I do not get what you are asking.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Ugh
The problem isn’t what Greg did, it’s that anyone thinks it is news! We should mind our own business. I’ll bet everyone participating on this site has a story they wouldn’t want made public.
by Dobbler on Jan 26, 2010 11:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's not news, it's COMEDY GOLD!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jan 27, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I always love a devil's advocate..
…but maybe you are being a little hard on the guy. Like has been said by others, it’s not as if he was sending a bunch of nude photos to random chat-friends across the internet; rather it was a personal and private relationship with a “lady friend” that he trusted. Also, when you consider the exemplary conduct with which he has always conducted himself in the past, you’ve just gotta know that the kid never meant any harm by it.
The biggest mistake was forgetting his celeb-status. He’s got to know (even a year and half ago, ‘cause he was a blazer back then!) that he can’t quite have the same freedoms as “average joe” when it comes to his private life. People will always look at you differently because of that, and unfortunately, even the people you think you can trust…
However, how many of us can honestly say that we’ve never done something equally (or even more) stupid in order to “impress” (and in Oden’s case I really DO mean “impress”) a lady? And, for those of us from a younger generation, how many can actually say that they’ve never sent or received scandalous pictures from a “significant other” at one time in their lives?
And really sir, had the technology been available when your “40-something” self had been a young buck looking to impress the ladies, would you have shied away so strictly from the idea of “trading photos”?
Either way, stuff happens so don’t sweat it Greg! Learn and grow from your mistakes and everything will work out just fine.
Greg himself knows it wasn't right to do it
That’s why he found it necessary to say he’s still really a good person. Because he knew that this isn’t the kind of thing a good person should do.
You’re right. Good post.
No, it doesn’t mean he’s a horrible person. It doesn’t mean anyone should give up on him, or bash him. But the whole “it’s ok, it doesn’t matter” thing that everyone seems to want to push on this thread isn’t sound.
It does matter, it’s a disappointment that he did it. And yes, his apology does sound a little too much like “sorry I got caught.” He doesn’t say it was wrong, or that he shouldn’t have done it, he says he trusted the wrong person. Well, yes, that’s part of the problem here. But he also hurt his mother, and his future wife probably wouldn’t be thrilled about it, if he ever gets married. And this is a negative trend in society, and it will probably happen more now.
Perhaps those kids at Bedge night will learn from what happened. More likely, some of them will be told, “Greg Oden did it!” and go along, when they might not have. He does have influence.
I like Greg a lot. He’s a nice kid, and I think he’s going to be a valued member of the Blazers and the community for a long time. I doubt many people will be holding this against him, and they shouldn’t. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a bad mistake, something he shouldn’t have done. It was, and it is better for him to face up to that than to have everyone say he’s done nothing wrong.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I strongly take umbrage to your line
this isn’t the kind of thing a good person should do.
Perhaps by your personal moral standard of what constitutes a “good” person, but not by mine, and judging by the responses here, not by the moral standards of most of the members of this community.
To my point of view, taking a naked picture of yourself and sending it to your boyfriend or girlfriend is a morally neutral action. Nobody is being harmed nor hurt by it. I’d be interested to know by what path of ratiocination you arrived at the conclusion that Greg hurt his mother by taking these pictures; how do you know what his mother’s reaction has been? How can you claim to speak for the majority of the female population worldwide when you say that his future wife “probably” wouldn’t be thrilled about it?
You’re right that he doesn’t say it was wrong or he shouldn’t have done it — perhaps because he doesn’t THINK it was wrong or that he shouldn’t have done it. That’s why I’d explain Greg’s statement of “I’m still a really good person” significantly differently than you did. To my point of view, it’s a necessary boilerplate disclaimer to tamp off an outpouring of moralization from the generations before Greg’s (and before mine) whose values are merely different but who pronounce their values as morally superior.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 27, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Interesting take
You may be right, I may have misinterpreted his comment.
Did you listen to the interview? It’s pretty obvious that he feels as if he has hurt his family, and given all we’ve heard about his mother, I suspect she’s very unhappy about it.
“Values are merely different” — on what basis do you make that claim? Are all values morally equivalent? Ultimately, by making such a claim, you claim your moral equivalence values are true, and thus the superior ones.
“Outpouring of moralization”? Where? This thread has seen an outpouring of amoralization.
I believe it is morally wrong to be displaying nudity to anyone other than your spouse. You don’t. That’s fine, you have that right. But the two views are in direct conflict, and so they cannot have equivalence. You are not prepared to grant mine equivalence for all your expressed tolerance — you took umbrage at it, and your view cannot allow equivalence to mine. Nor can my view allow equivalence to yours. I don’t take umbrage at your view, but I certainly disagree with it — your view is essentially amoral.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Perhaps his family is hurt and his mother is upset — I wouldn’t claim to have that knowledge. But if they are and she is, I’d posit that it was Greg’s ex-girlfriend’s betrayal of his trust that hurt his family. The fact that Greg’s naked pictures are making the rounds on the Internet right now might be the issue, mightn’t it? — and not the fact that he took the pictures in the first place.
Not all values are morally equivalent, no. Sociopaths can commit heinous crimes and justify them by a twisted code of values. But what I’m arguing is that nobody was hurt by the action of Greg taking and sending the pictures. The hurt ensued from the RELEASE of the pictures, not the taking of them.
I didn’t say that there WAS an outpouring of moralization — I said that Greg said what he did to forestall such an outpouring. If that was indeed the motivation, I’d say it’s been successful so far.
Our views are indeed diametrically opposed, and there is no middle ground. What I didn’t make clear the first time — and should have — is that what rubbed me the wrong way in your post was your quote that I box-quoted in my original reply. I don’t think you should be making objective moral judgments about what “good” people should and shouldn’t do…as if there exists some universal moral truth about “good” and “bad” people to which you are privy.
But I’m straying well off the original topic and into a philosophical conundrum that has escaped a concrete answer for thousands of years, so I’m happy to drop it if you’d like.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 27, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your definition of morality, then
is based on whether someone was “hurt”.
No man is an island. If some kid decides that Greg did it, therefore he will, and sends a picture to a girl who doesn’t want it, someone has been hurt. If he gets sexually aggressive as a result of being then rejected, someone might get hurt worse. Did Greg do the hurting? No, but he helped create an environment that contributed to it.
Sexting is a significant societal problem. There are a lot of parents and a lot of kids distressed by this. A few kids have even committed suicide because of the after-effects of this. It isn’t harmless.
The hurt ensued from the release? Well, yes. But even there, Greg wronged the former girlfriend by placing a significant temptation in front of her — he gave her a weapon to use against him and others. We pass laws controlling guns because guns can be used to hurt, but then we have no objection to putting weapons like this in the hands of people.
The chances of an “outpouring of moralization” are pretty thin. After 100 comments or so, Krang raises one voice opposing the “this is ok” bandwagon, and gets opposition. I really doubt Greg was forestalling any such thing. I think he was saying this isn’t representative of who I am.
And yes, I do believe there is an objective moral truth about what is good and bad. Head-hunting cannabilism is bad whether a society adopts it universally or not. So is rape, and racism, and greed, and laziness, and gratuitous cruelty. I suspect you would say that those things are bad because they hurt someone (though greed may sometimes help others by creating more jobs and only hurt the greedy person). If so, your absolute morality is the rather nebulous “hurts someone”, which isn’t sustainable — in many cases hurting someone is the moral thing to do.
So I don’t hesitate to make objective moral judgments. You actually make them when you say I shouldn’t.
Is it off-topic? I don’t know. Isn’t a discussion of the morality of Greg’s actions entirely on topic? But we can’t discuss it intelligently without having some common frame of reference, or at least understanding how differing frames of reference impact the discussion.
So I wouldn’t say off-topic, but perhaps too broad for this forum anyway. So I’ll just close by saying that statements that Greg’s actions are morally wrong are logically as valid as statements that there is nothing wrong with them. The dividing line is preliminary assumptions about morality, and the view I take is not illogical, certainly not unusual, probably in a strong majority around the world, and has much more historical precedent than the “nothing wrong here” view that most on this thread are advocating.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I'm at work so I can't reply quite yet
but I certainly will later tonight. Articulating morality isn’t a sound bite, so forgive me if I gave the impression that “if somebody gets hurt” is the bedrock of my moral code. I’ll try to explain myself a little better in a few hours.
And to whet your appetite until then, the thrust of my reply will be that we’re actually on the same continuum, I think — just at different points of it.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 27, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
It is pretty simple to me
You are being judgmental to a substantial group of people who find no harm in this kind of thing between two committed adults…and by extension insulting anyone who thinks that is ok. It is clear by your writing that you don’t think I am “good person”….because I have done something similar and don’t think there is anything wrong with it
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I was interpreting Greg's comment that way
but perhaps he didn’t mean it that way and I misinterpreted him. I’ve acknowledged that possibility.
I would never make such a comment, so please don’t attribute it to me, because I don’t know that there is any such thing as a “good person”. Everyone is a mix of good and bad.
There are good things to do and bad things to do. This was a bad thing to do.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Addendum:
Because someone does a bad thing doesn’t make them a “bad person” any more than doing a good thing makes a person a “good person”.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
You were the one that used the phrase "good person"
How bout you just say it is not something you would do and leave it at that
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
Greg was the one who used it
and I was referring to his comment and what I thought he meant by it.
How many times do I have to state that?
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Cancel comment
because if you don’t understand why I was insulted …then I will never be able to explain it to you
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'm willing to read carefully an explanation
If it helps, I’ve never sent pictures, but I’ve done lots of other things that I believe were morally wrong. I don’t believe that a person’s quality is determined by things they’ve done in the past. I don’t believe that those who do morally wrong things are worthless. I believe you and me and everyone else is a mix of good and bad.
But if you are insulted that I think it was morally wrong to do this, then that is unfortunate. If you are insulted because I interpreted Greg’s comment to be telling us that he thought a particular way about this, then I guess that’s the way it is.
I’ll still enjoy your comments and agree with the vast majority of them.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Your morals are yours...this is important ...I believe you are fully entitled to have them
But I have a code of morals that I live by too….they don’t entirely line up with yours, but that doesn’t lessen their validity. As it turns out,my code allows the very thing you are criticizing GO for doing ….in effect …you are, by extension, criticizing me. No amount of dancing around the subject really changes that. When I read quotes like this it doesn’t help either:
Because someone does a bad thing doesn’t make them a "bad person" any more than doing a good thing makes a person a "good person".
When I see this I read between the lines as "Poor ol 92 …he is just “good person” doing “bad things”…he probably wasn’t raised right" You probably don’t intend that message …but that is what I am receiving.
I am going move on from this….this will be my last comment …because after all, this just some internet debate and not really worth getting worked up about. I will leave you with this…..my view on tolerance is as follows: “Just because I have an answer doesn’t mean I have the answer”
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
OK, I'll move on too
But I’ll make two more comments. First, I am criticizing your code, not you the person. You also are criticizing mine (part of my code is that I have some measure of responsibility to speak up on moral questions), and thus (if I make the same extension) you are criticizing me.
Now, I don’t make that extension. I believe you can criticize my code without it being a personal criticism, and I believe I can criticize yours without it being a personal criticism. If you make that extension, I can only ask that you accept that I intended no such extension.
Second, as to the quote that “doesn’t help”, I’ll just respond that since I said everyone is a mix of good and bad, I hope you’ll also accept that I wasn’t in the least trying to send the message you received. If you are just a good person doing bad things, I also am just a good person who does bad things.
Perhaps different bad things than you. Perhaps I am even worse because I do them knowing full well they are bad things. Perhaps not, because you almost certainly also do things that you know are bad, things you know you shouldn’t do. Just like we all do.
Thus is the human condition.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I dont think that is what he was attempting to convey
it was a sub point to the main argument that sexting does not make a person bad.
Contrary to what our modern judeochristian derived society and the media contends, sex is not a real matter of morality. In stating that Greg is no longer a good person, you have presented the classic and highly ridiculous puritanical sexual construct that essentially states that acting outside the confines of a heterosexual, heteronormative monogomous marriage are deviant and morally curupt.
The reality is, whether Greg is a “good or bad” person is irrelevent. To try and argue that a person could even be qualified as either one or the other is absurd. To base his “goodness” on sex is even more so.
Finally, your judgement of another person , your qualification of their social merit and standing as a human being is disgustingly arrogant , hypocritical and innapropriate.
If you missed it, go read my blog www.womenundefined.com i have a great piece on Greg Oden.
-Sophia
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 27, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
“judge not lest ye be judged”
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 27, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
You wouldn't be judging me, would you?
You don’t judge that murder, or racism, or robbery, or fraud, or rape, or domestic/child abuse are wrong?
“Judge not” never ever meant that you aren’t to judge that certain actions are morally wrong. Do you even know who said that? Do you know what that person would have said about what Greg did?
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I DO know who said that
and I don’t know what that person would have said about what Greg did…but I can’t imagine that you know either, unless you have some kind of REALLY sweet hookup. And if you do, then you should be in His ear about a lot more important things than this. :)
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
He was pretty strong on fornication, which in that day and place was defined as any sexual activity outside of marriage. Some rabbis even considered a kiss outside of marriage to be fornication.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
so what are your thoughts on those rabbis position?
they undoubtedly criticize some of the decisions you have made in your life. do you go and apologize to them for your actions?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Who cares my thoughts on those rabbis?
We were discussing the “judge not” quote, which comes from Jesus, who was strongly against fornication. The rabbis are only relevant because they give us clues as to what Jesus meant by fornication, and BoB and I were discussing what Jesus would have said about what Greg did.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
he was also pretty big on “letting he who is without sin cast the first stone”
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 28, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
You can't turn that
into being unwilling to say that something is wrong. He was talking about actually casting stones when he said that.
I haven’t been casting any stones here. All I’ve said is that this was morally wrong. Jesus certainly never issued a gag order on saying things are wrong.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
actually here it is
Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 28, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, literalist on this
They actually were proposing casting stones.
Look at what he said. He didn’t condemn her, but he still called it a life of sin, and told her to leave it.
So how is that actually any different from me or anyone else calling something morally wrong? He didn’t just condemn her one action, he condemned her lifestyle. But he didn’t condemn her personally, he condemned what she had been doing and told her to change.
I don’t know any other way to read that statement. It is a statement of forgiveness and acceptance of the person (who was being threatened with death by stoning until he intervened) and also a total rejection of the things she had been doing — calling it sin and telling her to stop.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
it’ a message of forgiveness and hope
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 28, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
actually, I’m just messing with you since you took umbrage at my judge not comment that was directed at BF1…
.
.
Personally, my view is that he made a mistake, he apologized, I forgave (in my personal capacity to forgive as a fan), We moved on
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 28, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't know your comment was directed at her
I thought it was intended to echo her. Sorry for misreading.
But wasn’t it still a misuse of “judge not”? There was nothing wrong with her judging whether my statements were right or wrong. She was all fouled up in her assessment of them, but it wasn’t wrong for her to make an assessment. Side issue, I guess.
Your view is pretty much the same as mine. I just felt the “nothing wrong here” approach needed answered.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I made the comment in reference to her judging you for judging… if she had stopped her statement right before “Finally…” then I would have left it alone, but she made personal judgments about you based on her perception of you making personal judgments about Oden… right, wrong or indifferent, that bothers me in a way only veiled hypocrisy can
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 29, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
I think he would have said “You are forgiven my child, now go forth and do my work”
#7, #10, #25, #52,
by The Arkitect on Jan 28, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
I think the words were
“Go and sin no more” — which is close to the same thing you said, but your wording kind of missed the point of not doing it again….
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I think that for this discussion to go any further ...
We need Darkstar or whomever it is that understands Greek. Throw in an expert in Aramaic and possibly Hebrew. Look at the variety of English versions of the Bible. Then consider that the King James version resulted from translations of 2 or more languages.
He could have used the vernacular of the time and said yo bitch get out of here and stop messing around.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I could lose two weeks on this.
But I think Jscot is on the right path here. Everyone judges all the time. “Judge not lest ye be judged” (to borrow the KJV) is almost always taken out of context as a way to say “you can’t accuse me of anything.” In the simplest terms, it about making sure that if you point out someone’s mistakes, don’t look like an idiot by being worse than they are. Pot-Kettle thingy. But also in context is how to correctly judge people–not to put people down, but as one would let them know when they have spinach in their teeth. John 8:11 (Neither do I condemn you) plays out kind of like this. There’s the five-minute version anyways.
King James Version is another interesting conversation. It’s predecessors were translated from Latin (not the original Greek), but the KJV was revised using the original Language texts which they had available at the time. Since then, manuscripts dating far earlier have been discovered, yet nearly all of the KJV stands the test of time pretty well, except for the dated English (and the “innkeeper” for “prostitute” in Joshua kind of things). No translation is perfect, or even good compared to having the Greek and Hebrew in front of you, but nearly all of them remain faithful to the text. Still, it’s a good idea to keep multiple English translations available, and no reason not to use KJV in the mix.
Well, that had nothing to do with basketball or Greg’s man-parts.
πεντήκοντα δύο
But interesting none the less.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
lol i read your URL too quickly. I thought it said "www.WomenNudified.com"
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Lots of nice big words, Sophia
Contrary to what our modern judeochristian derived society and the media contends, sex is not a real matter of morality.
Ludicrous statement, on multiple levels. Sex itself is not a matter of morality, but when and where it is done is a matter of morality. Otherwise, rape would not be a moral issue.
You forgot to include Muslims in those who think it is a matter of morality. And multiple others. The modern Western construct that it isn’t is still very much in the minority.
In stating that Greg is no longer a good person
This is both absurd and dishonest. I didn’t state that, and the whole context of my comments that he’s still going to be a valued member of the team and the community, that people shouldn’t be holding this against him, just makes it completely ridiculous, even by Internet standards. For shame. All I said was this was a bad thing to do, and Greg himself appeared to be saying it was not what a good person should do.
you have presented the classic and highly ridiculous puritanical sexual construct that essentially states that acting outside the confines of a heterosexual, heteronormative monogomous marriage are deviant and morally curupt.
Nice. “Deviant and morally corrupt”. Yes, I used those words somewhere, I’m sure. Well, no. I said I thought it was morally wrong. The person throwing nasty words around in this thread to this point wasn’t me.
Finally, your judgement of another person , your qualification of their social merit and standing as a human being is disgustingly arrogant , hypocritical and innapropriate.
Because I said he did something morally wrong? I didn’t call him or anyone disgustingly arrogant, for instance. You are qualifying my social merit and standing as a human being. You are flaming me big time just because I said that Greg did something that was wrong. I did not use these kinds of words about Greg. You are treating me far worse than I treated him. I had positive things to say about him.
I read your blog. Not too bad. I actually agreed with more than you would think. In fact, you said some of the same things I said above. But that won’t stop you, because you like to flame when you get on a roll.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
by jscot on Jan 28, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I've noticed that the folks who squawk the loudest about ....
… others making moral judgements, are often the ones who consider themselves to be superior thinkers.
Sounds to me like you’ve hit a nerve. Keep drilling, you are doing great.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Not to disagree with the whole thrust of your comment, because I think most of it was accurate
but rape isn’t a moral issue because of its sexual nature, it’s a moral issue because of the violation of another person’s fundamental rights as a human being. My opinion anyway.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said
Sex itself isn’t a moral question, but where and when it is done is.
I think you are partly right, and partly wrong, though. It isn’t just a violation of another person’s rights. It is the sexual nature of that violation that makes it particularly egregious. If my neighbour parks his car in my driveway, he violates my rights, too. But because of the deeply personal and intimate nature of sexual relations, a violation in this area is particularly egregious. There is a reason that many societies in the past have given it the death penalty.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I agree with you (mostly) ((as has become my wont in this thread))
but it’s kinda a false equivalence to compare a non-sexual trivial violation with a serious sexual violation and say that the difference is the sexual nature of it. The difference is the degree of violation.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
But isn't it the sexual nature that ups the degree of violation?
We’re getting very theoretical here, but forcible imprisonment for 24 hours is generally much less egregious than forcible imprisonment for half an hour accompanied by rape.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Possibly it's the sexual nature
but I’d say that it’s the degree to which someone’s body is forcibly violated. Forcible imprisonment is not the same degree of body violation as forcible rape. I think that physical torture for half an hour and forcible rape for half an hour are the same degree of violation, for example.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
It would be interesting
if some of the female members would chime in on that. I don’t think they would agree with you, but I could be wrong.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Perhaps they wouldn't
I’ve never been raped or tortured, so I’m talking out of my hat.
As usual.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
woah woah woah slow down.
The hurt ensued from the release? Well, yes. But even there, Greg wronged the former girlfriend by placing a significant temptation in front of her — he gave her a weapon to use against him and others. We pass laws controlling guns because guns can be used to hurt, but then we have no objection to putting weapons like this in the hands of people.
That sounds a lot like the argument in the middle east that women should cover themselves up to prevent men from being tempted.
That sounds a lot like the argument that when a woman gets raped “she asked for it” if she dressed provocatively.
You don’t actually agree with either of those positions, do you jscot?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Jan 27, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, nice
No, a woman doesn’t “ask for it”. That doesn’t mean that it is right for her to go around dressed in a way designed to tempt men to behave inappropriately towards her.
But even if she does, under no circumstances does it excuse a man for such actions, nor should it lessen the penalty he justly deserves for his own wrong decision.
The former girlfriend made a wrong decision. The fact that Greg did something that tempted her to do so doesn’t excuse that. But it would have been better for both of them if he hadn’t, wouldn’t it? If he hadn’t done what he did, she would have never had that temptation to backstab him.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
she would still have the temptation to backstab him, but not the means.
he did something stupid by putting himself in that position, but that doesn’t make it immoral. why is that not getting through to you?
I also notice that you didn’t say anything about the middle-eastern women comment. how do you justify that?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Means = temptation
in many cases. Someone probably isn’t tempted to look at pornography if there isn’t any available. If it is sitting on the table in front of you, the temptation is a lot stronger. That is why behind the Iron Curtain, sometimes Christians who were imprisoned for their faith would be put in cells with pornography on the walls.
How do I justify what about the middle eastern women comment? It is not morally appropriate for a woman to dress in such a way that is designed to tempt men to act inappropriately. It is ludicrous to extend that to the burkha, if that is what you are saying. The whole mindset behind that is to exempt men from any responsibility at all (a major problem in the Middle East, especially in Iran these days), and to place entire responsibility on the woman, no matter what. That is evil.
To say that one person is wrong to tempt another to do wrong is in no way exonerating the person who responds to that temptation. Both do wrong. Why is that not getting through to you? :)
I never said stupidity is immoral. This was morally wrong even if the pictures were kept private.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
erm...more often than not, women do not dress in orden to tempt
others to behave inappropriately towards them……………. for heavens sake, women can dress however they want. If someone considers himself tempted, it’s his fault alone for not being able to exercise some self control.
I've often wondered why it's an accepted practice for men to
walk around in public places with no shirt but if a woman does it she’s likely to be arrested for indecent exposure. Why do women have to cover up more parts than men? Parts is parts.
#52
I believe in this equality
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
I agree that women do not usually do this
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Are you talking about the naked photo thing and being sarcastic?
Google: rihanna cell or
Miley Cyrus cell or
Vanessa Hudgens cell
I'm going to try not to range too afar here
This quote
this isn’t the kind of thing a good person should do.is what initially caught my attention, so I’m going to focus this post on that mentality.
Perhaps where you and I fundamentally differ is that you appear to believe that you can point to one action, any action, and say, “A good person would or wouldn’t do this.” I reject that mentality wholeheartedly. In my opinion, human beings are far too complex to be broken down into neat little abstractions like that.
Maybe three or four years ago, I would have been in complete agreement with you, because I had very clear ideas about what “good” people did and didn’t do. Good people didn’t get really drunk, or do drugs, or sleep around. But then I came to college and lo and behold, some of my best friends — fundamentally “good” people — do exactly those things. One of my best friends smokes pot every day and another would need her fingers AND toes to count all her sexual partners. Perhaps you could look at those actions and conclude, “Your best friends are bad people.” I simply can’t, Jscot, because I know them, and they aren’t.
Rape isn’t something a good person would do — a universal truth, right? I’ve read an eyewitness account of a Croatian father and daughter held at gunpoint by Serbian troops before we intervened in the ethnic conflict there in the late 90’s. He was told that if he didn’t rape his daughter, they would kill him, and he told them go ahead and kill him. When they put their guns to her head and made the same demand, he complied. He raped his own daughter…but they were both left alive. Can you say that “that’s something a good person wouldn’t do”? Is it so easy to say what anybody would do in a given situation, or whether or not “that’s something a good person wouldn’t do”?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 27, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
ok so you and i don't agree afterall.
Its a weighed moral decision: letting his daughter die or saving her life vs raping her or not raping her. When he did the math, having her live was more morally good than letting her die.
I won’t go into it a lot further but suffice it to say that’s a very very brief and incomplete summary of the situation.
I lie in between you two. I do not believe in moral absolutism (written about by Kant) or moral relativism (I think it was Mills or something??)-which in a sense is another absolute. I am in between. I think there are some morals that all sane rational people would agree on, we call them by many names (common law, rules, etc) and others that are not agreed upon or concrete.
Ultimately I think you should realize that other people are just like you with their own hopes and aspirations and values that you should treat them as such and try to not bring them harm. By that definition, Oden did not intend any harm or carry out any harm. His lady friend did. She released these photos to society and so forth. Why she isn’t being lambasted/scorned is beyond me. Sophia is the only other one who I have seen make this point.
What Oden did was execute poor judgement and unprofessional, but it was not an ethical lapse.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
You are correct
in that everyone involved in the release of the photos bears greater moral culpability than Greg.
As stated above, I do not believe that exonerates Greg, but you are certainly correct on this point.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I think we do agree
for if this:
I think there are some morals that all sane rational people would agree on, we call them by many names (common law, rules, etc) and others that are not agreed upon or concrete.
is your fundamental perspective, I’m in total agreement with you.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
I actually agree with this post
As I’ve said above (and actually also in several previous comments on this site), I don’t know that there is any such thing as a “good person”, that everyone is a mix of good and bad.
I was stating what I thought Greg was meaning with his comment. As I already said above, when you disagreed with my interpretation, it is possible you are right.
I’m not prepared to say that Greg is or isn’t a good person. I’m not prepared to say that you are or aren’t. The only way to answer those questions would be to define “good person”. Theologically, I would say none of us are, but in terms of this discussion, that’s not really relevant.
It is much more practical to discuss the morality of an action, and every action must be viewed in its context.
You’ve given a context in which (if your account is true) a rape occurred. Whatever one’s view on the situation, the morality of the father’s actions differs greatly from that of a Serbian soldier who committed the same action. In that case, I would not consider the father a free agent, and thus it was the soldiers who committed the rape, even though the physical action was not theirs. He was compelled to do what he did, but the guilt was theirs. That is far different from those who freely chose to do something, and perhaps only adds to this discussion an example of the importance of context. It doesn’t help deal with the question of whether actions are morally right or wrong. The rape was still wrong, but the context clarifies who is guilty.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Then we do agree
that actions are context-dependent. I misunderstood your perspective. Thanks for clarifying and doing so in a level-headed and non-accusatory way.
When I said that we’re at different points on the same continuum, what I meant was that I didn’t mean to give you the impression that mine is a Kantian, lasseiz-faire morality where all actions are morally neutral. I absolutely agree with you that there ARE some objective moral standards in the universe (though I’ve debated the point before with philosophy majors left and left the conversation with my head spinning). Judging from this issue and your comment that you think it’s morally wrong for anybody aside from your spouse to see you naked, I think we definitely have different ideas of what constitutes a violation of those objective moral standards…but I DO agree they exist.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
oops
read “Kantian” as “whatever his polar opposite is”. This is what I get for trying to recall freshman year philosophy without double checking it…..
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, when you gave your followup
I understood what you meant by saying we are on the same continuum.
You got focused on my reference to Greg’s “good person” comment and thought we were on different planets. I got focused on your “values are merely different” comment and thought the same. In fact, your “same continuum” but at “different points” pretty much nailed it.
Minor quibble: I don’t think it is wrong for anyone but my spouse to see me naked. It is wrong for me to voluntarily and intentionally create a situation where they will.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
this is what you said
I believe it is morally wrong to be displaying nudity to anyone other than your spouse.
But I understood that you didn’t change behind a towel 100% of the time when you went to the gym.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Score one for you
You are right. :)
Both doctors and nurses have seen more than I put on display walking down the street, too.
I’ll have to figure out how to refine that statement to fit what you and I both know I meant.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
also define spouse while you're at it
one that youve married, someone you’re dating or what? Greg didn’t just take this picture and send it to random people (I’d say that’s wrong), he sent it to someone (i’m assuming) he was intimate with.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Spouse would be someone you've married
I’m pretty sure that is the commonly accepted definition.
Yes, premarital sex is morally wrong. Based on your comments, I doubt you agree.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
what you mean is moral relativism.
people have different values. what’s wrong to you is not wrong to another person. There are things that we all agree on unless we are psychopaths (killing another person is wrong) and there are things that we as society don’t necessarily agree on (killing an animal for food when you have alternatives is wrong, etc). This is more like the latter than the former. I think we all agree it is an embarrassment. He is embarrassed. His mother is likely embarrassed. His future wife may be embarrassed. But I don’t think what he did is necessarily wrong-just stupid
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I actually did mean equivalence
I was responding to this:
values are merely different
He appeared to be stating that no value system was in any superior, but that they were equivalent in worth, merely different.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
If societal agreement defined morality
then I think your distinction between things we all agree on and things we don’t necessarily agree on would be helpful.
Since I don’t accept that societal agreement is what defines morality, I think it is an interesting construct, but not a great answer, ultimately.
Race-based slavery was morally repugnant even when society was almost universally agreed on it.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
societal agreement is what defines laws. which are based on common morals. ones that aren't common are not (or rather shouldn't be) laws.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Who is talking about laws?
I don’t think anyone has suggested what Greg did should be illegal.
I would agree with you that societal agreement needs to drive litigation. I think it is largely irrelevant in discussions of morality, which from your comment below I think you might agree.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
i'm not saying that all things we agree on are correct, they are merely a reflection of a majority of societal --- or rather the majority of those in power of the society's -- moral standards
that is not to say they are right, and they have evolved with time. But what was the general opinion of whites on blacks at that time?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
+92
And it is not even a generational thing …I am in my mid forties and clearly remember a thing called a Polaroid camera…and know for a fact that it was pretty commonly used in the same fashion
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
I was at goodwill last night
There were 17 VCRs for sale ….in just that store
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
To say no one has been harmed by it is foolish.
Greg has certainly been harmed by it. As has his family and those people who care about him. The Blazer organization has been harmed by it.
You can make an argument that the level of harm may be minor, but to say there has been none just isn’t true.
As for your questions to jscot – try using a little common sense before climbing up on that horse and shouting out questions. I know my mother would no be pleased and certainly embarrased if photos I took on me standing in front of the mirror naked were distributed in public. Most of the mothers of friends that I know well enough of would feel the same way. I’m betting your mother would be at a minimum questioning the intelligence of her child if it was you in this situation.
The same applies to wives. I’ll wager it isn’t even close if you ask wives if they would like to have photos of their husband’s genitals widely distributed. I know from personal experience. (Friends threw a birthday party for me and rather later in the evening I accepted a challenge and photocopied my ass. My wife was not amused. Still isn’t and it’s been a few years. One of my best friends wife, who is friends with mine, tried calming my wife down, saying it was no big deal. I later learned that when they got home, she reemed out her husband, saying it was his fault for encouaging me. KV had nothing to do with it.)
Jscot is not speaking out of a sense of moral superiority. He’s doing so out of common sense. Greg Oden may become one of the greatest centers in NBA history with multiple rings and there will always be someone who will joke about those photos and the subject thereof.
(Which reminds me of a joke about this Scottish gentleman – I’ve also seen him referred to as Irish – who is drinking his sorrows away. When a visitor asks him why he is so down, the man replies with a short version of his life history and how he was the one who carved and polished the beautiful wood bartop, and it was he who painted the murals on the walls of the church, and build the sturdy stone bridge across the creek. Yet is he remembered as Reggie the woodworker, or Reggie the painter or even Reggie the bridge builder, nooo. But suck one ______ and he’s known as Reggie the ______ forever. )
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Try not to impugne me personally because you disagree with my point of view
at no point in this conversation have I “climbed up on a horse” or not “used a little common sense”.
I know my mother would no be pleased and certainly embarrased if photos I took on me standing in front of the mirror naked were distributed in public.
The key part of this statement, as I already made in a point to Jscot, is the “distributed in public” aspect of it. Greg didn’t take the pictures to distribute them in public; he was betrayed by somebody he trusted. Perhaps your mother would not be pleased and would be embarrassed if you — privately — took nude pictures of yourself and sent them to a lover. I don’t know your mother, so I don’t know. But that’s a different situation than this one, and I’m saying that it wasn’t Greg’s action that caused this harm, it was his ex-girlfriend’s.
I’ll wager it isn’t even close if you ask wives if they would like to have photos of their husband’s genitals widely distributed
I agree with you — but that’s not what I said. All I said was that Jscot can’t claim to speak for what Greg’s future wife would “probably” feel based on the fact that Greg took naked pictures of himself and sent them to a previous love interest. Jscot’s post was about the action of taking the pictures, and that’s to what I’ve responded. You took my response and ran with it as if it were my reply to the RELEASE of the pictures…and it’s not.
I’m betting your mother would be at a minimum questioning the intelligence of her child if it was you in this situation.
If they were released on the Internet, you bet your sweet behind she would be. But as for what I do in the privacy of my hypothetical relationship, it’s my business, not hers.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
There is an old saying - "If the shoe fits"
What I said was it is foolish to say no one was harmed. I stand by that statement. If you believe it applies to you, that is completely up to you. If you don’t think it foolish to think so, then speak up and defend your point of view. Don’t play the victum and claim you are being personally attacked.
As for the horse, well it certainly was something you climbed up on when you started with the moral superiority complaint.
In reply to the rest, rather than rehash much of what’s been said already, lets just say I agree with jscot that none of this would be happening if Greg hadn’t taken the photos in the first place. That viewpoint does not assign levels of wronness or blame. It stands by itself. I can hold it and still agree with you that the woman who distributed the photos engaged in an action that represents a greater wrong than what Greg did.
On the mother and future wife bit, you went after jscot’s rationalization and basically accused him of trying to speak for the majority of women, rather than address the points he made. Yet above it sounds like you admit that if you were in this situation, your mom would at least feel some degree of embarassment and you agree that if polled, most wives would not want naked pictures of their husbands. Which is my point about jscot speaking from common sense and not out of a sense of moral superiority, as you attributed to him.
The minimum lesson to take away from this is that each of us is responsible for our actions. And actions that may seem harmless or innocent when taken, can in fact be otherwise. We can say that relative to other things, Greg’s actions are minor, we can understand them and even excuse them for a variety of reasons, we can offer our support and tell him that we still love him or that he hasn’t lost our respect. I know I can do all of those things. But if we don’t first acknowledge the part about responsibility and insist that no harm has or will come from an action like this, then we are most certainly acting the fool.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
No one was harmed by the taking of the photos, and I do stand by that. The release of the photos is what caused the harm. I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
I’m not playing the victim by asking you to address my points without being inflammatory; if you feel that’s victimization, so be it.
Yet above it sounds like you admit that if you were in this situation, your mom would at least feel some degree of embarassment and you agree that if polled, most wives would not want naked pictures of their husbands.
If I were in this situation, it wouldn’t be the point I was making to Jscot. We were discussing the taking of the pictures — nothing more. I stand by my original assertion that Jscot can’t claim that Oden’s hypothetical future wife “probably” would be upset by the fact he, at one point, had sent naked pictures to another woman. She can certainly be upset by the fact that they were released and plastered all over the Internet…but that wasn’t what we were talking about. That point IS common sense. Saying that a woman “probably” would be upset by the taking of the pictures, in and of itself, is not common sense.
The minimum lesson to take away from this is that each of us is responsible for our actions.
The abrogation of personal responsibility is the single biggest social problem we face in this country, in my opinion. I agree wholeheartedly that we are responsible for our actions. And Greg’s action was STUPID, no doubt about that, and he’s responsible for that. I just don’t think it was WRONG. Big difference there.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Looks like there are areas we disagree, but I'd say they
are minor compared to our agreeing on the point about responsibility.
And though I disagree about the no harm part, I don’t feel that the amount of harm is so significant that we should get into an argument about it.
And apologies if I was irritating. It’s a talent I have.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
No apologies necessary
I got my hackles up and it wasn’t really warranted. It’s a talent I have. If it ever happens again, don’t take me personally. Cheers.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Same back to you.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
"probably"
Perhaps that was overstated, perhaps not. Without a doubt, many women would be hurt to find that their husband/fiance had sent naked pictures of himself to another woman at some point in the past.
20-30 years ago, without a doubt most women would have been hurt. Now, perhaps fewer. I suspect many women who would say theoretically that it wouldn’t bother them, if it came right down to it, would feel hurt. We’re talking about an area of our lives that is deeply emotional and intimately personal, and people are very easily hurt beyond what they would have expected.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
What? No mention of me photocopying my ass?
I’ll say one thing. I missed a great opportunity to make some money by offering it as part of a weight loss program. Definately capable of causing loss of appetite, with real potential for inducing vomitting.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I'm willing to take your word for it
rather than make my own evaluation.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Ask anyone who worked at a Fotomat in the 70s and 80s
As to how many times they came across nude photos and the answer would be staggering. Also, there was another reason Polaroid cameras were so popular other than the instant aspect of the photo. Digital media has made it much easier to propagate images to Greg’s misfortune.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
I would...
… but I never hung out with the sort of nerd losers who would want to work at Fotomat.
I did manly stuff like wash dishes and pick up dog crap. (Well, I was really mowing yards, but you had to pick up the crap first.)
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I worked in grocery stores
And as dumb grunt labor (landscaping).
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Young people make stupid mistakes
If they survive them and learn they grow up wise. some of the more interesting people I know have made amazing mistakes and then learned from them and finally grew up.
Disappointment is fair, but everyone is human. Anyone who’s put on a pedestal will eventually teeter a bit if not fall.
Greg hurt no one but himself and provided comedic feed for people to poke fun at him and the trailblazers. In the scope of things this is so small. Additionally, this happened a couple of years ago and he’s paying the consequence now. Think back on how much you grew from 16 to 18 to 20… I don’t know about you, but I grew quite a bit and really seemed to settle down about 25ish.
Do I think it’s a big deal? No. He shared something intimate with someone he probably thought he loved at the time, and she betrayed him. In the grand scheme of things I’m MUCH more concerned about other things in life and don’t give a rat’s behind about some minor transgression.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
No problem, I agree with your concern that changes in sexual "permissiveness" are not a good thing.
So, I am a “prude” in that I think there are significant advantages is reserving sex as an expression of true love in a committed relationship, as opposed to just a physical drive to be satisfied, or a tool to get attention, not to start a big debate. I respect anyone, male or female, who has learned to control their sexuality and avoid ultimately destructive sexual behavior. So, I certainly agree, I don’t think it is cool for kids to be plastering neud pictures of themselves up on the internet, but then, I am not cool. Kind of pathetic in my eyes. Good for some people to point out that they are better off not getting into that. So, as for a “example” the Greg picture incident is unfortunate.
So, yeah, I am dissappointed in Greg, and I am thinking Greg is dissappointed in Greg, and he is paying more that most for a youthful error in judgement due to his celebrity. I am inclined accept that he is maturing and learning, just like, hopefully, all of us.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
again noone is saying that posting lewd pictures on the internet is OK or right.
but greg didn’t do that, did he?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
you are quite correct (at least as far as the Greg part goes, haven't read all the comments).
I’m just saying, more generally, it’s best to keep your pants on till you’re really sure.
In this case, sure you “friend” had enough class and concern for you to not publicly humiliate you to the point of national news. Unfortunate error in judgment, and also having to learn the hazards of celebrity. Don’t the have some kind of rookie class on the hazards of being an NBA player ? Greg now has his own lesson added to the class.
The internet can be really brutal at times, but I still think the plusses outweigh the minuses a lot.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
Does anyone have the guts to say that "maybe" this is wrong? That maybe Greg Oden should apologize?
You say you listened to Canzano’s show, as did I. Did you not hear him apologize? Because I did. – Elgin
OK...so girls in movies where guys wear hockey masks have a better survival rate than the average Blazer player. - Dave
How long before
We hear the pundits claim that Durant’s photos are better?
by JonathanPDX on Jan 26, 2010 11:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I really, really want to rec this one.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
had a drink too many?
you are slurring your s’s.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 27, 2010 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
that i'm not worthy?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
That we learned why the scouts said one leg is longer than the other?
RUDY > MJ
But, of course, if I could make a dunk on his face I would. - Rudy
Now that you mention it ...
… I don’t think they ever came out and mentioned which of the three legs they were refering to.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Are you referring to the lesson of not challenging Greg ...
… to a game of one on one or playing “Donkey Schlong” with him with the house payment on the line?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Who was is that kept asking about locker room presence?
I think Oden decided to solve that question for himself
can someone enlighten me what was so bad about about the WW person's question?
Yeah I understand that if a man asked a woman that question, it would be frowned upon even more so.
What I don’t understand is why. Seems like a legit question to me.
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
and honestly i wonder about all you dudes who went and looked at the pictures
srsly
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 27, 2010 6:48 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, me too
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
oh, i'm going to look
and you’re welcome to wonder away.
After all, if i didn’t look, according to sophia i’d be a hypocrite.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I got them set as my desktop
And now my wife calls me “The Short White Oden”.
by tominhawaii on Jan 27, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think odens nickname needs to be The anaconda
I mean if kobe is the black mamba…
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Jan 27, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
And TiH's nickname
Should be “inchworm”.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Tom was referring to a different aspect of short.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
and vanilli
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 28, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'll hazard a guess.
The number of times your wife said no to sex last year?
I’d say you are doing pretty good for a married guy.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
My excuse is that I was wondering if I might find someone ...
… who I can commiserate with upon the issued faced by those of us having to lug around outsized members.
At teast it’s the story I’m sticking to until someone provides photographic evidence to the contrary.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
click through for pictures
shudder.
I don’t see the big deal. I take showers naked everyday. It’s how I was born, and if I’m lucky, how I’ll die.
#52
You want to die in the shower???
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
In the shower?
I’m betting you don’t believe in getting those non slip thingys to put on the bathtub or shower stall floor.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
What's the big deal?
Portland Trail Blazers announced via text message alert to the local media that Greg Oden would hold a press conference at 6PM at the Blazers Practice Facility in Tualatin to discuss nude self-portraits that were leaked onto the internet early this morning
Do a quick PR release and get it over with. Nobody is going to remember it next week. I swear, only in Portland.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
David Beckham's underwear
made national news in Britain.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
address or undress?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
googled the pictures
and really… that’s what the fuss is about?
I look forward to the jokes, but feel it’s pretty stupid. Merry Christmas to the ladies and men who enjoy that, oden is going to get a ribbing he deserves, and life will go on.
Since kodak invented instant film, this has been going on.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
As much as I would like to punch A Woj in the face...
I cant argue with his comment about how bad the Oden v Durant choice looks right now.
Jeez. Durant is leading his team to the playoffs and is a probably top 5 MVP candidate at 21 years old.
Oden is a broken joke getting caught sexting.
Ugh
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
The Thunder in the playoffs?
Youre kinda pushin it dude…and once again we didnt need Durant, he’d be riding pine behind Roy, Rudy, Bayless AND Martell if we drafted him
Brandon Roy - The Savior Of Portland Basketball
by rise_stand_resist on Jan 27, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
he isnt
there are seriously people ( many of them actually) that live in Portland and still think we dont need Durant, or that he wouldnt be any good here.
To think that a guy averaging 30 ppg would be riding pine behind Martell and Bayless is really funny.
Yes we needed a big man, and yes we were all on board with Oden. But the debate is dead. Durantula is ridiculous, and OKC making the playoffs isnt far fetched if you look at the standings right now
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
That's all true
But Oden’s weiner has no bearing on it ….at all
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
True
But the fact that our #1 pick is nothing more than an injured internet side-show as compared to a probable 12x all-star and future scoring champion just hurts.
This could have been anything negative (either tabloid or legal related) but the fact that he isnt on the court and is in the tabloids is not good.
Whatever, I still love this team.
Go Blazers
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
It is frustrating and lame
But, I’ll take these sort of shenanigans over the creepy Zach stuff or the jerky Bonzi or bad Qyntel stuff.
Just don’t read ESPN comments, and you’re golden!
Morty
#52
I disagree
The Deadspin and ESPN comments on this story are actually pretty hilarious.
The inner 10 year olds of aging bloggers is in full effect.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
I meant ESPN in general
I like Deadspin’s comments.
And I don’t find THIS situation frustrating at ALL… if the weiner pics change anyone’s mind about Oden, I think they’re silly.
I mean the whole injury thang.
M—
#52
Calling Durant a probable 12 time all-star ...
… differs little from claiming Oden is going to help Portland to more than one title.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
It all depends on what happens in the future
If Oden is healthy, the production Oden was giving THIS season is worth more than ANOTHER wing scorer— a wing player not as good as Roy, and therefore wouldn’t get the same usage he gets for another team without a Roy-like player, and thus isn’t scoring 30… still a GREAT scorer, but since he is only a scorer and decent rebounder… ya think that helps as much as a healthy Oden?
On offense, and defense?
Yes, if Oden is never healthy, Durant was the better choice (or, if ya ask me, I say HORFORD is the better choice, because I am not big on wing scorers whose best attribute is scoring and are bad at passing… not a whole lot of those types win a lot of big games, historically).
If Oden can stay alive, his play this year is worth more than a nice 30 points a game. I firmly believe that. Scoring is overrated, even if you don’t take into account how he’s not as good of a perimeter player as Roy and THUS wouldn’t get whatever shot he wanted. Durant is a better scorer, but not a better all-round player, and shouldn’t have the ball in his hands all game if ya got Roy.
Therefore… debate ain’t dead. Durant ain’t a MVP, he’s George Gervin. Carmelo. That is NICE, but I’ll take a big man who can play defense, score inside, and rebound. Nene and Billups help more than Melo.
Mortimer
#52
can u two take it somewhere else? this isn't relevant and i'm sick of people second guessing and lamenting that we don't have durant.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
sorry
But every Oden catastrophe is like a shot to my heart. This is just my way of venting.
It would almost be easier if Greg Oden would just go away and not subject us to his injuries, public mis-steps, and mopey interviews on ESPN. I could live with this team as is.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
talking about Oden v Durant doesn't help it go away, though.I'm pretty sure Oden would love to disappear right now, too. In fact, that's probably why so many people are lashing out at the NW media. This happened. But it too, shall pass.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
This is also True
But this myth that Durant is nothing more than a Gunner on a bad team (and believed by many Blazer fans that never watch the Thunder) is ridiculous. The kid rebounds, takes it to the hole, draws fouls, gets a few blocks, and is actually a highly effecient scorer that shoots a high % from the field.
Yes he is a wing, and if Greg ever plays some FULL seasons in a row and improves like he had been this year then I can live with watching Durant go off every night. Big men are much more valuable.
But if Greg never gets healthy and more of his “sexploits” become public (and believe me, Greg isnt the clean cut saint that the blazers and Greg’s team make him out to be, this guy does things that most 22 year olds in college do if you catch my drift) then this will go down as one of the all time D’OH’S! of the draft.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
Good, I hope he does.
If this is the worst that comes of a boy being forced to grow up too fast, then great. I know many people who got into much more trouble during their teen years and grew to become better people because of it. But they weren’t subjected to the limelight like Greg is. He grows up in front of our eyes and every misstep is magnified. And that that intense pressure doesn’t break more kids is amazing to me (this is why I think college before pro sports is an amazingly great idea for any athlete out there). But in the end, its not Greg’s fault he faulters. Its human nature. Its not the media’s fault either. Sure they perpetuate and deal in this stuff but the fact that these stories are out there is more a fault of society for its’ interest in this story. The media are just responding to demand.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
So what?
Durant is not a Blazer. Oden is. Exactly what do you hope to accomplish by continuing to complain about somethiing that happened 3 years ago? Prove that you were “right” all along? It may come as a surprise, but nobody cares if you thought Portland should have drafted Durant instead of Oden. That decision has come and gone.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
by timg56 on Jan 28, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 28, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Durant >>>>> Oden
Anyone who tells you different is a Blazer homer
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 28, 2010 7:26 AM PST up reply actions
We really can't judge ...
… until Durant’s pic’s come out.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Go to the ESPN comments page
freaking HILARIOUS.
As much as those pages are usually just trolls and haters, there is some comedy gold in there for this one.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
I can't believe, during the Draft evaluations, that our medical staff missed glaring fact that
that leg is clearly a little shorter than the other two.
WWOPD? What would Optimus Prime do?
by Blazer Ninja on Jan 27, 2010 10:09 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think the biggest long term negative for Greg
will be the heckling he receives at enemy arenas.
Because of his celebrity status, Oden showed poor judgment no doubt and couples sending naked pictures back and forth over public air waves seems pretty foreign to those of us whose youth has passed them by. Still, as someone mentioned above, ever since Kodak created instant film I suspect many like nude photos have been “enjoyed” between couples.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
Those of us whose youth has passed them by?
I’m only 43. I’m not really dead yet. Now if you’ll excuse me, it’s time for me to fire up The Toyota Camry and meet my Mall Walkers group. Today we go from Sears to Macys then stop at the food court for decaf.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
I've never undrstood folks whose basic values change as they get older. I understand life priorities changing, and
how you assess what your needs in life are, and how you adopt new strategies to meet those needs. But I don’t get the values thing.
And going to jscot’s point about values equivalence, I agree with him that asserting that all values are equivalent is nonsense. If I didn’t think my values were the right ones, I wouldn’t hold them. But I think that the larger point is that in a pluralistic society there are some values which it behooves us to come to consensus on if we can, some rough agreement is imperative if we are to live together. There are whole other realms of values where we can afford to tolerate those who disagree with us. And these change. Fifty years ago, what you did with your trash would probably have been held to be no one else’s business provided you didn’t dump it on someone else’s lawn. Now, it’s an issue with implications for the future of life on earth.
Similarly,shared values around sexuality may be seen by some as critical to our collective well being, by others as completely a matter of personal choice,.
I can speak of values equivalance around just about all sexual behavior because in my personal opinion, the values you hold don’t really matter to me. You are entitled to tie your dick in whatever knots you choose. It’s all the same.
Google Mr. Flanagan
uh no, I was being metaphorical. I do not suggest that folks actually tie it in a knot.
Very astute observation
But I think that the larger point is that in a pluralistic society there are some values which it behooves us to come to consensus on if we can, some rough agreement is imperative if we are to live together. There are whole other realms of values where we can afford to tolerate those who disagree with us. And these change.
I would agree with this. I do not believe society must agree with what I believe on morality in order to prosper.
I do believe there must be consensus on many points, and that the stronger the societal consensus is in agreement with true morality, the more that society will benefit. The further societal consensus drifts from true morality, the greater the societal cost.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
this goes back to the argument of absolutism.
true morality? what is that? who defines it?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
For those who believe in God
God defines true morality.
But that doesn’t change the point. Virtually everyone believes not only in a moral code, but that parts of their moral code should be accepted by society and enshrined in legislation. Thus, much political debate is about what is moral.
Otherwise, we wouldn’t hear “greed” and “laziness” and “equality”, etc, used in political discussions. People argue that their proposals will help bring society into greater conformity to what they believe is truely moral. And they argue that if society doesn’t conform with that, there will be societal cost.
Everyone is a moralist.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
Lol
I was referring to you Krang. 43? You’re still just a pup.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
My keyboard evidently dropped the n't from was. It makes mistakes like that all the time.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
good thing you're not famous
you’d be hung for a mistake like that!
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
This town is so damn small.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 27, 2010 12:10 PM PST reply actions
This would a story regardless of what town it happened in
hopefully it is will run it’s course quickly …but it would still be a story
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
the Portland media is so unsophisticated though.
THAT is more embarrassing to me than any other part of the Odong story.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 27, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yup
PTI joked about it and NBA.com joked about it
by tominhawaii on Jan 27, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Pants on the ground
Pants on the ground
Looking like a foo’ with your pants on the ground
:)
If I was Greg, my press conference would have gone like this:
…Clears throat…Well I just wanted to gather yall around to say… BOO YAH (Doing the Arms crossed across your hips motion).
No Seriously I apologize for making you all feel bad.
That is all.
And then strut off
:)
Go Beavs, beat the *ucks!
Geez
Nude photos have been around probably as long as the camera has been invented. Nude portraits before that. What we consider ‘civilization’ has not suffered for it. If this is the only ‘issue’, if you can call it that, that Oden has, so what? No apology necessary. I’m glad to see there are no real problems in the world.
The ruins of Pompeii are a great example.
And, “morals” do change… back in the mid-70’s they would only let men and older boys look at the last photo on the page – now they post it on the internet.
And, yes, one of the first things they did with the newly invented camera was to take nude pictures.
http://www.maxpower.ca/a-timeline-of-imagery-firsts/2007/10/03/
That said, stupid, if not illegal. THAT said, he’ll have to go underage next time if he ever hopes to be Mayor…
That was like a poem
It was beautiful, man.
#52 by Mortimer on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 PM PST
Ah, but what happened to Pompeii?
j/k
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I think this has played out about as well as it could have
Did Greg make a mistake – of course. He’s a role model, a professional, and in many ways his name/reuptation is his brand as a public figure. He also seemed very sincere in a way that makes me think this is not in line with the values and self-respect he was raised with (thank you Mrs. Oden). More importnatly, he owned this and took responsibility for his lapse in judgment. That’s maturity. Of course, men and women have been sending pictures like that to their significant others since the camera was developed, but in the internet age, if you’re a public figure when the realtionship sours and the ex decides to let the cat out of the bag, it’s not just a circle of friends laughing, it’s the entire country. Hopefully, GO learns something from this about the judgment he should use in evaluating situations as a public figure, but this is not a panic button moment, imo.
Always supporting Greg Oden.
Free AK1984.
I agree that he is a role model but he shouldn't FEEL THAT BAD for this.
that crushed look on his face—-it seems like he feels too much weight on his shoulders. I wish he would just tell the Portland media to eat his shorts. they deserve it. so he shot some girl some pix of his manhood. who cares? I don’t see why he needed to apologize for that at all. and this “what would you say to child in school” garbage—-ridiculous! did anyone ever think that maybe our kids should have better things to worry about? besides, I’m guessing 99% of the members of the media—-those circling greg like the blood-sucking skeksis that they are—-I bet they have done far worse things in the last year than send someone some nudy pix.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 27, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
I'd also bet that the photos were part of an exchange
but Oden didn’t release the girl’s pics….
He didn’t see this coming, but he won’t make that mistake again.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 27, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
This a valid point
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 27, 2010 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
I would make that same bet
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
The Organization
that markets this guy and probably some stuck up evagelists that think greg is going to he11. Oh, and the media that sells papers and internet sites off drivel like this. Other than that, probably not many people
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
The only mistake Greg made was trusting the recipient of the photos
Naivete as a 20 year old (his alleged age at the time) will get you castigated later. However, the overreaction on the part of the Portland community has been ludicrous – at best. One restaraunt is taking his photos down (per Canzano), and Canzano himself has questioned Greg’s judgment and whether Oden is worth a business investment.
The ludicrous side to this reaction is that this incident is no way an indicator of a “patttern of behavior” or moral depravity. This is an isolated incident that is being used by the media to make judgment calls about Oden’s character. It has been a year and a half since the photos were taken – the media should acknowledge this and understand that really, Greg is a victim of malicious intent and has been neither malicious nor negligent in his own actions – only naive.
Riiight.
How refreshing to know that while a kid who’s one of the league’s genuinely nicest people is suffering deep embarrassment from a sensational press corps, he is doing so wearing cool shoes.
by Dunce Cap Quarterly on Jan 27, 2010 10:03 PM PST reply actions
I can't decide which photo to make as my avatar
by tominhawaii on Jan 28, 2010 9:22 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
On that happy note ...
… I think I’ll get back to work.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I'm surprised nobody has asked this
But shouldn’t this story be the textbook example of a “Junk Drawer”?
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
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