Game 45 Recap: Blazers 97 Pistons 93
by Ben Golliver on Jan 23, 2010 9:01 PM PST
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PrintA wild, winning end to the Blazers' 4 game road trip. This 97-93 victory over the Detroit Pistons-- which evened the trip record at 2-2 -- had a little bit of everything.
Long Story Short
The underchildrened (similar to undermanned, but younger) Blazers came out tamale hot before narrowly avoiding a second half collapse; Charlie Villanueva took some time out of his busy schedule to give Rudy Fernandez a free ride on a merry-go-round and and to screen Juwan Howard for Adam's Apple reduction surgery.
The Game
The Blazers unexpectedly threw out two new members in their starting lineup: Steve Blake (starting in place of an injured Jerryd Bayless) and Jeff Pendergraph (starting in place of a cryogenically frozen Juwan Howard, who didn't quite thaw out in time for the tip). Miller, Blake, Webster, Aldridge, Pendergraph. Since day one this season, I've argued that that's the ideal starting lineup for the Blazers and it's nice to see Nate McMillan finally come around to this obvious quintet. Just look at the results: 32 first quarter points, including 3 threes from Webster, a power slam from Pendergraph and 8 points on a variety of looks from LaMarcus Aldridge.
The fun didn't stop after 12 minutes, though, as Rudy Fernandez put his Boston flail party behind him, running slaloms through picks, returning to the air for a beautiful alley oop from Steve Blake, and knocking down a three pointer. His off-ball energy proved to be infectious; Webster got in on the alley oop act on a great backdoor pass from Andre Miller and continued his hot shooting from distance, canning a total of 5 three pointers before halftime. Webster was taking rookie Austin Daye like veterans used to get after Wester earlier in his career. He finished with a career high 28 points, playing every second of tonight's game.
The Blazers' defense, minus some struggles on the defensive glass, was solid throughout the first half. The Pistons -- missing Ben Gordon and Will Bynum -- were content to simply chuck up three pointers (they finished 4-21 on the night) and didn't even seem fazed by Portland's superior energy. Down 56-42 at the half, they looked like they didn't much care what had hit them.
The third quarter saw Portland's shooting come back to Earth and Detroit's intensity increase considerably. The Blazers stumbled out of the gates with some pretty atrocious turnovers, miscues and miscommunication while Detroit was busy getting energy on defense and some scoring from invisible-until-now role guys like Jonas Jerebko and Chris Wilcox. The Pistons clawed all the way back from a double-digit deficit, cutting Portland's lead to 1 with 2 minutes to play in the third.
Boy, that's when things escalated quickly.
The third quarter had already seen some chippiness thanks to a classic " **** you, ********** " from Steve Blake to Jason Maxiell after a rebound scrum. But Charlie Villanueva really pulled out the trident when Rudy Fernandez drove hard to the basket in transition. Villanueva grabbed Fernandez just as he was taking off and swung him to the ground in full 360 degree fashion. Surely Rudy's chiropractor is drunk or dead by now. Juwan Howard, who had previously defended Blake during the profanity exchange earlier, immediately took exception to the flagrant foul by Villanueva and gave him a nice push to let him know that grandpa wouldn't be tolerating that, thank you very much. Villanueva responded by using his hand to examine Howard's throat for any unusual bumps. Both teams got into the pushing and shoving fracas which ended up spilling over into the Pistons bench. Calm waters returned when Dante Cunningham flashed his "My teeth are missing! Just kidding!!" mouthguard and everyone lined up for a parade of Rudy Fernandez free throws. After roughly 635 touch fouls and 8 made free throws by Fernandez in the quarter's last 97 seconds, the Blazers took a 5 point lead into the final period.
The Blazers again hit some bumps in the road offensively, managing just 4 points in the fourth quarter's first three minutes. Meanwhile, Detroit's best player, guard Rodney Stuckey, had some success in attacking the hoop and the Pistons took a 2 point lead on a Rip Hamiton jumper with less than 5 minutes to play.
Much like Wednesday night's game in Philly (broken down in detail here), the Blazers were in a late-game execution dogfight against a bottom 10 defense. It would again prove to be execution by committee for the Blazers, as Miller got to the hoop and drew fouls, Blake hit a big corner three, Webster knocked down 2 clutch free throws and Aldridge sealed the 97-93 win by making the back half of two free throws with 2.2 seconds on the clock. Meanwhile, Detroit's late-game offense was all over the place, with Hamilton forcing a contested 3, Villanueva choking on an open look (some symmetry and karma at work on this one) and Tayshaun Prince telegraphing a pass out of a timeout that was brilliantly tipped away by LaMarcus Aldridge.
This game ended up being more difficult than it probably should have been for the Blazers yet, when all was said and done, it kind of felt like they stole it. Just look at Dante Cunningham's hilarious reaction to Aldridge's game-icing free throw.
Individual Observations
Andre Miller had a quiet 11 points (just 6 shot attempts) but a tone-setting 13 assists. Indeed, the television broadcast rightly lauded the Blazers' 20 first half assists as a team. That's pretty amazing. Miller's game tonight was mostly about passively captaining the offense with his vision rather asserting himself off the dribble, although he did look to drive a little bit more late in the game. His first-half lob to Webster was a thing of beauty.
LaMarcus Aldridge had 21 points, 8 rebounds and 1 big-time game-changing deflection (mentioned above). There's still work to be done -- both by the coaches and Aldridge himself -- in finding his comfort zone late in games. He had a nice face-up shot with about 5 minutes to play and the game-ending free throw, but he also disappeared for stretches. A number of times Blazers guards ran the high pick and roll and pulled up their dribble indecisively, as if expecting Aldridge to somehow make the play without the ball in his hands. Perhaps this was fatigue due to the back-to-back coupled with the absence of Jerryd Bayless.
Martell Webster was straight balling. 28 points, six three pointers, 7 boards and a steal. After the game, Gilbert Arenas picked him up and used him to intimidate Javaris Crittenton. One thing I haven't mentioned yet this season about Webster is that it's a real testament to his professionalism that he's able to play 48 minutes in a game. That's an extremely uncommon request by an NBA coach (not named Don Nelson) and, truth be told, there's a fair percentage of players in the NBA who physically and mentally couldn't play 48 minutes on the second half of a back-to-back, period. The perfect bounceback from an invisible Friday night in Boston.
Grand Slam for Rudy Fernandez: he rediscovered his shot, free throw perfection, gravity and back pain all on the same night. 19 points, 2 boards, 2 dimes and hustle play throughout. He was seeking offense off the dribble, something he hasn't often done this season. Hopefully this will serve as a nice stepping stone game as he continues to work his way back after his recent surgery.
Steve Blake was just as instrumental as Andre Miller in working the ball around the perimeter to set up easy shots. He finished with 11 points, 10 assists and 3 steals. Blake's 1 made three was oh-so-necessary and perfectly timed.
Juwan Howard just knows every trick in the book. He came off the bench tonight and never really found his shooting touch (1 for 5) but he filled the minutes, stood up for his teammates and worked the refs throughout.
Jeff Pendergraph (SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE) started the game but finished with just 2 points and 4 rebounds (SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE). The 2 points were memorable as they came in the form of a rim-shaking dunk. (SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE) On defense he got beat pretty badly to the baseline by Charlie Villanueva and he probably should have slithered laterally more quickly. (SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE) Did you hear that he has a new nickname?
Dante Cunningham found himself in some early foul trouble which helped limit him to just 10 minutes of play. He knocked down a nice baseline jumper and grabbed 3 boards. Down the stretch both he and Pendergraph got out of the way as Nate McMillan went with experience to pull out this nailbiter.
Final Thoughts
The team's composure and resourcefulness in response to the late-game physical tests from Villanueva, Ben Wallace, etc. were a welcome sign. Some guys that might usually be on the sidelines getting held back by the assistant coaches were out there mixing it up and, more importantly, rallying together in the scrum's aftermath. Other guys who might have leaned on Brandon Roy to restore order and bring the win home had nobody to turn to but themselves. That's invaluable experience.
Every game won without Roy is a solid victory for the Blazers, especially considering the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. Rough(er) times could be ahead.
Note: For those of you wondering about the Jersey Contest, Dave is en route to Portland for Blazersedge night on Monday night. Please be patient. He should have you fully updated soon enough.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
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Charlie V really is ugly
Karma demanded he play like crap in the fourth though and he did.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
never get into a shoving match
with a guy wearing an acrylic mask
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
wouldn't you always get in a shoving match with a guy wearing an acrylic mask?
that’s a sign his face has been broken before. and recently.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Charlie V better watch out..
Lest Grandpa’s oak cane comes out.
BTW, I was flipping through and watching the GS-Pho game, and guess who I ran I across? Our old buddy, Anthony Tolliver putting up 19 and 10 for GS. Apparently, he put up 12 and 10 against NJ the night before. Granted, two double-double in a row came against NJ and Pho, but pretty good for an NBDL guy and a short-time Blazer.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
They're even more short-handed than us
They have 7 active guys at this point, since Monta Ellis is out for today and maybe longer (same injury as Bayless FWIW, sprained ankle).
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Indeed..they actually had 3 NBDL guys on the court at same time during one stretch in the 3rd quarter..
Not sure that has ever happened before….
BTW, Stephen Curry’s shot selection = awful.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
Curry has such a good shot
He thinks he can make them from everywhere. Don Nelson has done an incredible job to make this team as competitive as they are btw.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I think that's proof enough
that even Mike Ruffin could get a double-double playing for Nellie, given enough PT
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It just proves Nate can't coach or develop players...
Like everyone that leaves the Blazers, Tolliver is blowing up.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
WIN BE night
Too bad I can’t go to that but should be fun for you folks.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Ben channeling his inner Dave
I made it about 90% down (until the Snake comments) until I realized it was you writing and not Dave. Well played, well played.
#52
Me too!
I was going to write a “Dave you’re on fire tonight” comment, but then it occurred to me that it was Ben’s writing.
This made me laugh so loud I woke up my husband:
Miller, Blake, Webster, Aldridge, Pendergraph. Since day one this season, I’ve argued that that’s the ideal starting lineup for the Blazers and it’s nice to see Nate McMillan finally come around to this obvious quintet.
(Oh well, that’s what the old fart gets for going to bed so early.)
Blake was great tonight.
In Bayless I trust.
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In parts, yes.
The second half where he was trying to run the offense while Miller was resting was, shall we say, ugly to say the least. He did hit some tough shots, though. Still, I think we need Miller or Roy out there with Blake at all times.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
I agree heartily.
In Bayless I trust.
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if he played like that in the Houston series last year...
they beat the Rockets.
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
all the Blazers needed was one more defensive rebound in the 4th quarter of game 4
and they beat Houston in that series, last April
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
So let's say we are still in the running near the end of the season
and Oden comes back
Roy is healthy
Batum is healthy
Rudy is healthy
Rex is healthy
Outlaw is healthy
Sweet dreams.
And we play as hard as we've played the last month and a half
We’re a real championship contender next year if not this one.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Przy would be a huge boost...
he was a huge loss…. I wonder if he will ever be the same after that injury.
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
If anyone can be its Pryz
Its not like he was that mobile before the injury, that should help.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
They also weren't playing that hard early in the year
I think they’ve learned to play with passion a lot better.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I keep saying it because its true
This team makes me proud to be a Blazer fan, they just keep fighting hard and winning despite the increasing odds against them.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
My boi is back!
Thank you Rudy, I wish I had seen more of you. The way you recognized the absolute 180 the refs pulled after the skirmish, and responded by drawing 4 fouls in about a minute made me proud. Finally your euro floppiness paid off!
I think Nate made a mistake in the 1st half when he sat Rudy after only 10 minutes of extraordinary play. He was back in a rhythm, and I was hoping Nate would ride it out. He didnt, but we won, which generally cures all pain. Plus Blake hit shots when we really needed them. He played very well.
I just thought that the first half, when Rudy was smoking hot, you would ride him. Build up his confidence, help him get that flare back in his game. It looked like he was ready to do so. Yet, he gets 20 minutes. 20 minutes is ok, I’d like to see a little more than that, especially when Blake plays 40. I think what annoys me most about that whole situation is that Rudy played 35 last night, and he looked awful. He was passive, out of control, throwing up bricks. It was ugly. The he comes out and plays possibly his best 10 minutes as a blazer, and rides pine? I dunno. The blazers got it done, and I am happy.
I just thought they had a real chance to build some confidence with Rudy tonight. He had it going, but it was disrupted. We need him right now, no way around it….
RUDY > MJ
But, of course, if I could make a dunk on his face I would. - Rudy
He got his confidence back
He showed me a lot when he popped up and hit 6 FTs in a row in the third. He is da man. He might be better than MJ, who knows?
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
MJ never played 20 mins while Paxson played 40. Jus sayin
:-)
I am really happy we won. The way we keep winning games makes it so, so, so easy to love this team…
RUDY > MJ
But, of course, if I could make a dunk on his face I would. - Rudy
Is Rudy still having back pain?
or was that comment just for drama.
by Jacksonville on Jan 23, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
If you've ever been seriously injured, had sugury, and then gotten hurt, however minor following it,
you know that you check it again and again to make sure you are good to go.
In Bayless I trust.
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I think Nate may have thought Rudy needed a rest. He played 35 the night before and I think he was
exhausted at the end of the night..hence the time clock thing..so maybe Nate pulled him to make sure he was rested…and could play later on in the game…want to give Nate the benefit of the doubt for now…we’ll see…
I see...
You can say anything you want on this blog, no matter how horrendous it may be as long as you put an asterisk in place of the intended letters.
LOL
you are soooo ****** right. That comment is the funniest **** thing written on this *********** blog! * *******!
by oldguyoldfan on Jan 24, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
SNAKE IS NOT PENDERGRAPH'S NICKNAME.
There I said it. Moving on.
In all seriousness, the last athlete nicknamed “Snake” was Jake Plummer, and I think we all agree that is not a comparison we want to make.
His first, nor, last name doesn’t rhyme. “Jeff ‘Snake’ Pendergraph” and “Jeff ‘The Snake’ Pendergraph” has no rythmic flow of syllables. And nothing about his game resembles a snake!
And its just horribly unoriginal.
Look critically here: First he happens to sport a Swashbuckler mustache (Easy target, but awesome all the same). He was underrated draft pick. HIS LAST NAME IS PENDERGRAPH!
I’m guessing a Pendergraph helps chart relationship between rebounding and the Errol-Flynn-awesomeness of one’s mustache.
Hopefully, you see where I am going here.
(do when you fumigate, meaning in bunches) - Rudy Fernandez
by MikeIrish on Jan 23, 2010 9:49 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Hey, it's better than "yellow mamba"
there, I said it
Oh, and everyone who thinks Cunningham is a small forward? Martell 48 min, Dante 10
(No, he’s not)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
So only playing 10 minutes, and being in foul trouble,
automatically means Dante cant play 3 ? Ok, I disagree. But agree to disagree.
First , I have to start by saying that if it were my decision this summer, we would not be looking at this choice right now to start with. The Blazers would have a third center instead of a rookie pg, who still DNP with Bayless and Roy out last night.
Adding a center is not a quick fix. There is no way the combo of Oden/Pryz never gets another injury, and never gets in foul trouble. Adding a center is a long term investment in the future, if we want a championship.
Imo Martell, and Mills are the most expendepable. I would also pull the trigger on Andre if thats what it took to make the deal happen. JBay will only get better more playing time.
Here is my logic on Martell,
Nic is coming back, always a better defender. MUCH higher ceiling.
Rudy and Blake can hit enough 3’s to make up for the “infernos” one quarter of consistant scoring in a game.
Travis will be back, and Claver is still in Spain.
The log jam has to thin, Martells value is higher than ever right now. You have to give value to get value. Like the kid, but thats how I see it. I don’t see another team taking a player off our injured list in a trade.
Dante has a higher bbiq than Martell, I don’t see him hurting the Blazers at the 3 for some minutes. He also imo, has a higher ceiling and will only get better with more playing time. Thats just how I see it.
I’m just going to enjoy watching LA get more physical, the great rookies, and that this team does not quit this season !!
Small ball does not win championships.....
Go Blazers !!
I disagree on Dante's BBIQ being higher.
Je is still a rookie. If BBI is important to you, you would want to cut Travis Outlaw IMO
by Hermistonmelons on Jan 25, 2010 4:27 AM PST up reply actions
Who is Je???
This is going to sound worse than I mean it to, I like Martell, but his problem has never been athletisism, it’s been between the ears. I have not seen DC asking other players to sign shoes or change his number to be like someone else.
So, yes I think DC ( a rookie )has a higher bbiq than Travis and Martell both. 4 years of college makes a difference.
Travis trade talk isn’t going to happen since he is injured, so that is a totally different subject.
Like I said ^^ if it were up to me, this conversation would never have to take place., since needing another big man, would already be covered. :)
Small ball does not win championships.....
Go Blazers !!
by FrenchieFan on Jan 25, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
rec for candor and courage !
Way to speak out. I don’t know where the “snake” thing came from, but worth a bit of discussion.
It would make sense to me to run it by the guy getting named, at some point.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
Only thing I can think of is former ASU QB Jake "The Snake" Plumber, maybe?
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I hear Jake "the snake" Roberts
from my childhood, when Andre “the giant” pulled that boa on top of himself trying to act scared….
(our) great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit, our system of of credit is privately concentrated, the growth of our nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
--- Woodrow Wilson
Kenny "the snake" Stabler
from back in the day
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
well, I definately remember Kenny Stabler,
being an old Raider fan (pre LA).
It was amazing how those guys could come back late in the game… the famous Stabler “fumble” into the end zone for the last second winning touchdown. But, just not feeling that for Pendy at the moment.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
snake
JP has pythons ..or other big snakes……that’s where it came from he has a few snakes at his home in AZ…too cold for them here in Oregon he said on Blazers Courtside…dumb nickname…not original…I like Antonio’s better… “little bit” …… just a “little bit” crazy…
Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"
"too cold for them in Oregon"
Not in alot of parts of Oregon…
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy,
Roy, Roy, Roy!
by joelor on Jan 24, 2010 2:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
point
point taken…..I guess I should have said Portland…and that also was what Jeff was referring to when he said it….Oregon….
Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"
It just sounds manufactured.
Nicknames are the one thing we, as fans, hold over the marketing. They can’t take that away from us. Its original, organic and honest.
Who honestly calls Joel “The Thrilla?”
Who honestly calls Brandon “The Natural?”
Nicknames are ours!
(do when you fumigate, meaning in bunches) - Rudy Fernandez
you just prove my point that nicknames from blazersedge generally suck.
except for mine: juwanna man howard
That’s just hilarious.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
i mean look at the horrible nickname for the sergio->rudy combo
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Spanish Air-mada
slightly less horrible
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Remember though...
The Spanish Armada was one of the worst disasters in Naval History.
(do when you fumigate, meaning in bunches) - Rudy Fernandez
"Snake" is awful
Pendy is deserving of a much better nickname. I cringe every time one of the Mikes call him “Snake.” It just seems so forced and awkward. Yuck
"Brandon, a 3-pointer out front... HIT IT!!! YES HE DID!!! OHHHHH YEAAA!"
by oregonduck4life on Jan 23, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
It's sad to me
that 3+ syllables in a name seems to be too much for sports broadcasters. Not just talking about Mike & Mike, I want to mute all ESPN announcers who call the Steelers’ QB “Ben”
It comes from him owning snakes
and also from his interview of himself. Timbo had the link for it in one of his posts. Hilarious interview.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
They done did good
I like watching the way these guys play the game shorthanded. Hopefully that will continue as the injured players return. I like the comment above about Andre’s ‘vision’. When Roy returns, I hope McMillan will figure out how to get him into this style of play more often than all those isolation plays. The Blazers can win like this. I think it would benefit Roy very much.
Normally I don’t watch the post came comments from McMillan. I did today and it looked like he was ready to burst with genuine joy. Much better than the ‘general in charge’ persona. Maybe an eye-opener. Miller and Blake can play well together. Now get Roy and Miller functioning smoothly. That would be a powerhouse backcourt indeed.
it's good that the team is finding ways to win close games without Roy
hopefully that will make them “less predictable” coming down the stretch in playoff games
(that was one of the goals, following the Houston series. To diversify the offense…)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Just saw the NBA TV Highlights
They blame the incidents on DET, not us.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Where can we go to nominate this for award?
After the game, Gilbert Arenas picked him up and used him to intimidate Javaris Crittenton.
:) good stuff
Ahem... You advocated Pendy over Oden OR Przybilla?!?!?
Forward thinking, that was!!!
Miller, Blake, Webster, Aldridge, Pendergraph. Since day one this season, I’ve argued that that’s the ideal starting lineup for the Blazers and it’s nice to see Nate McMillan finally come around to this obvious quintet.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I'm with you on benching that Roy dude though... O-VER-RA-TED!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
selfish
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Jan 23, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, that throat move was punk
A nice left hook would have been so nice there, and quite warranted.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
We need to discourage these thugs from slammin' Rudy !
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
I'm finding my thoughts drifting to an imagined similar future event,
with the significant change being GREG stepping in for his teammate on the floor…
Oh yes ! That would be poster material.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
given the way they've been giving him defensive 3-second violations when he's back in portland...
they might suspend oden for the next 10 years for protecting his team
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Jan 23, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
Greg grabs Charlie’s jersey and picks him up over his head and throws him down the court.
by danielfarrell on Jan 24, 2010 6:10 AM PST up reply actions
LOL that pic makes him look pretty damn evil
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Ought to be
How they could look at that on the replay and not eject him, I don’t know.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
I got a ticket to the Hornets game. It's 100 level. I would rather have the money, but I'll guess it will be interesting to
go and see if Blazersedge gets mentioned on the big screen.
Roy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Miller
that hasn’t changed
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
Depends.
Is it not incredibly encouraging to see Miller playing his best ball of the year at the exact same time Roy plays his best ball of the year? I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
I know correlation does not imply causation, but it makes sense that Roy would benefit from Miller learning people’s spots, posting up, and drawing double teams. I do think the offense runs better when it’s run though Miller, but there are times when running a bunch of ISO’s for Roy might be a good idea.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 1:38 AM PST up reply actions
Any good performance that helps the Blazers is a positive
Not I nor anyone other Blazer fan should ever root against a Blazer player. Anything Miller can do to help, wonderful.
However, the idea that somehow Miller is the best player to “run” the offense is short sighted. Miller is a good player, but his role should be reduced when Roy is in the game.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 1:57 AM PST up reply actions
Miller is the best player to run the offense. If you want to bring age into it then maybe it's a different story.
The fact that Roy had a hard time adjusting to playing with a pure PG makes sense. He didn’t really play with one in college and both Jack and Blake played off the ball a lot his first couple years. That’s not really Miller’s fault though, and over the past month they’ve really made it work.
I do think Miller’s role should be reduced when Roy comes back, but I also think it would be hard to argue that anyone runs the offense better than Miller right now.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 2:10 AM PST up reply actions
as long as both can produce and the team flourishes, there is no argument
but if there is an issue of “control”, then i think the experiment is headed for failure.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 2:24 AM PST up reply actions
the goal should be to present the opposing defense with multiple looks
Roy handling the ball at the top of the key (either ISO or PnR) has been effective during the regular season, but teams with better defenses (like Houston, last April) who have had time to game-plan for Brandon’s 1-4 set have found ways to neutralize it. Maybe not every time and in every game, but Roy can be trapped and unless the defense leaves a good shooter open in the corner, Brandon’s outlet options are not always productive
But, if the late game offense was “mixed” and some sets started with Miller in control of the ball, ’Dre could find Roy and pass him the ball in areas of the court where the defense would have more difficulty “loading up” on #7. (Like around the elbow, or on the wing/baseline)
I don’t think the argument should be “Roy vs. Miller” but instead, look for ways that the two of them working together can make it harder for superior defensive teams to shut down the Blazers in late game situations. If that wasn’t what the dinner conversation at Vegas back in July was about, then it should’ve been
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jan 24, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Great Post
I’d expand your post to say there has to be a change in offensive scheme regardless of whom is on the floor. Bayless can run the offense. LA is an offensive threat, if Oden comes back, he can be an offensive threat. Rudy can move with the ball… As you said, as long as this is “Brandon’s team,” with all the offense running through Brandon teams will neutralize Brandon, especially in the playoffs, see last year.
Agree with both two4larue and Tim Tim. Hope the Blazers know this as well!
May be a good thing that Brandon is watching the game while recovering.
It's not about who your best overall player is, it's about who is best at running the offense. Roy is our best player and Miller is our best point guard.
Yeah Roy is our #1 guy, but he’s not as good as Miller at running the team and he shouldn’t be. That’s not his position. Now that we have the best point guard we’ve had since Porter, we have someone who can worry about all the responsibilities that a point guard should have. And Roy can concentrate on what he needs to even more, instead of having to taking on multiple positions’ duties because Blake is not a true point guard. It helps Roy and our team.
by Coastie07 on Jan 24, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
A lot of claims
Miller is still overrated as a point guard, which is an arguable point (and Roy is a point guard by definition – just not recognized as such and with the talent to play equally well off the ball). However, claiming that Blake isn’t a “true point guard” is taking the argument into the twilight zone.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"Miller is still overrated as a point guard"
That’s a bold claim since he’s considered league wide as one of, if not the most, underrated point guard in the league over the last decade. You’d probably be the only person to call him overrated. Roy is very good at running the court for a shooting guard, but he’s not a point guard. As far as Blake not being a true point guard, compared to Miller he’s not even close. He’s a three point shooter and can do a few things with the ball, but when the full responsibility of a point guard is put onto him, he usually crumbles. That’s fine, he doesn’t have to be that as long as we have Miller.
for your information
appeals to authority such as “…he’s considered league wide…” is a logical crutch that reveals flaws in your argument (if you have to stoop to claiming other’s opinions to ratify your own, your opinion isn’t very strong)..
Instead, you should use mutually recognized facts to build arguments that can stand on their own merits.
For instance, Roy still averages more assists per game than Miller, on the season. Interesting, considering the league-wide opinion on Miller’s “true point guard” skills…
Relative to his “point guard peers”, Miller ranks 18th in assists.
If you want to make the argument that “true point guards” are more than assists per game, you would be right. So let’s go to that composite offensive metric (PER) and see that Miller’s ranking jumps all the way…gasp…to 16th in the league among point guards. Heady stuff, that. Now, if we consider his defense and his effect on our net point guard production, we see that
Miller has been making positive contributions, lately. It might even be sustainable for the remainder of the season. If so, we will all be ecstatic. However, let’s not fool ourselves into believing that Miller is an exceptional point guard. Not yet, at least.
When he can demonstrate a significantly better assist to turnover ratio than Roy, Blake or Bayless (Miller is slightly better than Roy/Bayless, significantly worse than Blake), then maybe you can laud his “true point guard” skills as something truly remarkable.
For the moment, we all need to realize that what makes Miller good right now is that he has average point guard skills to go along with above average ability to score in the paint. That’s it.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
No appeal to athority, only cold hard facts.
He just passed Jerry West in assists. He’s been a rock his whole career. Take a closer look at his assist numbers.
Assists
2000-01 NBA 657 (5th in the NBA)
2001-02 NBA 882 (1)
2002-03 NBA 537 (10)
2003-04 NBA 501 (7)
2004-05 NBA 569 (6)
2005-06 NBA 674 (3)
2006-07 NBA 625 (4)
2007-08 NBA 565 (9)
He’s been top ten in assists every season for the past 8 seasons. Assist % is probably a more accurate measure, but it tells a similar story..
Assist %
1999-00 NBA 38.7 (10th in the NBA)
2000-01 NBA 40.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 49.8 (1)
2002-03 NBA 31.3 (10)
2004-05 NBA 32.2 (10)
2005-06 NBA 36.2 (7)
2006-07 NBA 34.3 (9)
Using raw statistics shows the flaw in YOUR logic.
For instance, Roy still averages more assists per game than Miller, on the season. Interesting, considering the league-wide opinion on Miller’s "true point guard" skills…
Roy has a much higher usage rate, but still only has an assist%
of 18.4 compared to Miller’s respectable 26.4. You have to adjust for usage, just like you would have to adjust for pace.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that only 2009/2010 is relevant to 2009/2010
and I’m pretty sure that this year’s stats confirm that Miller’s point guard skills (passing and ball handling) are at best average, and that his offensive contributions are exceptional based on his “shooting guard” skills (specifically, his truly valuable ability to score close to the basket).
Miller remains a very similar guard to Roy in style of play, albeit with “true point guard” skills tilted slightly in his favor.
As for my supposed flaw in my logic – you would have been better served to acknowledge my own qualifier and conclusions before focusing on the one stat that I declared as limited….
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Nope.
If you only want to look at this season then Roy still only has an assist% of 18.4 compared to Miller’s respectable 26.4.
During THIS season Miller is getting assists at a much higher rate. That’s simply a fact.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
No sense in arguing with him and his "claims"!
Black is a hot shot.
by blazer_bob on Jan 24, 2010 3:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
unlike some, I can take credit for arguing a point directly
try it (hard, but worth the effort)…
What he is missing is context (the context being that the point being made was that Miller’s “true point guard” skills are average, this season – and rate is nice, but you also cannot discount production – and up till the last game Roy had been more productive in assists than the only “true point guard” Coastie acknowledged – rate notwithstanding).
Since you whiffed on your first attempt to join the conversation, here’s an invitation to address those specific points and try again…
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
It's pointless. (No pun intended)
I’ve been arguing the merits of PG “purity” on Blazers Edge for years. It’s hard to convince people of anything, even with statistical evidence. The insanity over Miller is actually the reason I left in the first place.
Taking a page from your playbook…
I’m pretty sure that only 2009/2010 is relevant to 2009/2010
OK, in that case then I’m pretty sure that the month of January is only relevant when talking about the month of January. Right now, at this point in the season, Andre Miller is playing all-star level basketball.
This is especially important whenever talking about Miller’s game. He always starts slow. So Andre’s numbers at the beginning of the year are not indicative of Miller’s production at the end of the year.
This past month Miller has been the best PG and easily the second best player on the team. (19.5 points, 7.5 assists)
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
7.5 assists, if representative of his entire season
would still only put Miller 7th among point guards, and nowhere near All Star status. Williams, Paul, and Nash all have much better “true point guard” stats, in addition to being much better shooters.
Let me reiterate, what makes Miller valuable this season is above-average inside scoring to go along with average (at best) point guard skills.
If he sustains January production for the rest of the season – awesome.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
You didn't adjust for pace.
If Miller averaged 7.5 assist per game on the slowest team in the league he would be better than 7th.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
Haha. "average (at best) point guard skills."
Please name another player in this league you feel has “average (at best) point guard skills” so we can see what you figure average and then compare the 2 players.
Years?
What was your prior identity?
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
None of your business jscot!
Actually there have been a couple other identities. The last was Nick Van Excellent.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Cool!
I loved the NVE name, any reason you dropped it?
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
In a fit of rage I changed my profile password/email to random ones.
It was a New Years resolution that didn’t stick.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
Less than a month
You should resolve not to keep any of your resolutions next year.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
nothing given says Miller has superior "true point guard" skills, right now
that doesn’t mean he isn’t an above average player. I’ve spelled that out, but I can’t make anyone read it.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
Now that we have the best point guard we’ve had since Porter
Rod Strickland says “hi”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Andre Miller says "hi" right back.
I definitely didn’t forget about Rod or how good he was, but I still like Miller better.
Career per game averages:
Miller 14.5 pts, 7.3 assts, 2.67 to, 4.2 reb, 46% fg, 1.4 steals
Rod 13.2 pts, 7.3 assts, 2.62 to, 3.7 reb, 45.4% fg, 1.48 steals
That’s about as close to identitcal as you can get when comparing 2 players. Rod was at his peak in Portland so he’s probably remembered here as being better than he was. Both have had great careers, but never quite enough to make an all-star team. The thing that gives the edge to Miller for me is I believe he’s a better teammate and does a lot more of the little things while Rod was more about flash. Miller also, while not as athletic, comes off as a much smarter player to me. When it comes to who is better overall, it’s really arguable either way, I just feel like if I was a player, i’d rather play with Miller. Rod did not have the greatest reputation and was considered somewhat of a problem player at times. And while Miller has been with 5 teams, Rod was with 9 different teams. The Knicks, Spurs, Blazers, Bullets, Heat, Timberwolves, Magic, Raptors, and Rockets. When you play for 9 teams, there’s a problem.
I agree except Rod was at his peak in Portland.
Overall I think Miller is probably better, especially considering how healthy he’s been.
by The Running Man on Jan 25, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
Roy doesn't run THE offense. Roy runs HIS offense.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Cant say enough about this teams resolve and determination!
Great win. Way to keep fighting in the face of adversity.
On the other hand LMA is so frustrating. Dude is soft as a double roll of Charmin. His game is similar to Z-Bo’s in the way of he could get 20 and 10 each night and not have a real impact on the game. And don’t even think about putting the ball in his hands in the last 5 min. He’s in his 4th year and its the same old stuff.
by blazer_bob on Jan 23, 2010 11:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions
some are born with adequate powers of observation
others aren’t
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
Yes we've all observed Lamarcus step up big since all our guys have gone down!
I mean he should be adequately named Mr 4th qtr!! Sounds good?
by blazer_bob on Jan 24, 2010 12:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
You make claims. I disagree with those claims.
LMA is a reason the Blazers win. The reasons are quantifiable, but can also be qualified. He isn’t soft, he has a major impact on the game, and the Blazer schemes dictate shots in the fourth quarter.
LMA isn’t a problem for the Blazers – he is a solution.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 1:34 AM PST up reply actions
No joke.
For whatever reason it’s hard for big men to score in the fourth quarter. Just look at last years 4rth quarter scoring numbers.
2008-2009 4rth quarter points
James: 7.7
Granger: 7.5
Wade: 7.4
Bryant: 7.3
Paul: 7.1
Roy: 7.0
Crawford: 6.4
Johnson: 6.2
Harris: 6.1
Terry: 6.0
Durant: 6.0
Robinson: 6.0
Butler: 5.8
Parker: 5.8
Smith: 5.6
Jackson: 5.6
Gordon: 5.5
Pierce: 5.4
Williams: 5.4
Bosh: 5.4
The top 19 players are all wing guys and Bosh is the only big in the top 27 players. LMA scores about one point less per fourth quarter than Pau Gasol. Considering pace that seems pretty reasonable.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 1:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I think it is because it is easier for a defense to take someone out of the play that plays off the ball
and bigs universally play “off the ball”, hence ball-handlers are more likely to get a good shot in high-leverage situations.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 1:59 AM PST up reply actions
Wonder how much of this is from foul shots
Even the star bigs are rarely given the ball in intentional foul situations, and thus don’t get as many opportunities to score.
That would make some sense.
Especially for bigs like Dwight who can’t shoot free throws.
by The Running Man on Jan 24, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Detroit's coach approves of the incident
Kuester didn’t seem to mind that the emotion his players showed in the third quarter turned into a minor on-court incident.
"I saw Piston basketball," Kuester said. "I saw the vision of what this team would be all about, where we played with a purpose. It was just aggressive play. It was nothing more than that. But that’s the way we’ve got to play.
"We’ve got enough guys on this team that, if we play with a passion, man, we’ve got a chance."
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2010/01/pistons_comeback_falls_short_a.html
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Interesting...
Considering they called a flagrant foul on the play, I wonder if the NBA would fine him for that comment? It would seem to be at cross purposes with how the NBA is trying to deal with “aggressive play” that would lead to players getting hurt.
I don’t know if it was fall out from frustration over Garnett being a punk but I would have to agree with the Mikes that the refs really let that happen. The Pistons were allowed to manhandle the Blazers in the first 8 minutes of the third quarter. It is no wonder it led to a skirmish. I was getting up in the refs grill in front of the TV for most of that quarter. Hand checking is a foul beyond the FT line and they simply decided not to call it. I am glad the Blazers stood up for themselves and forced the refs hand.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
The grabbing and pulling was obnoxious
any time anyone cut or peeled off a screen/pick, a Piston would grab an arm or part of the uni…it was blatant, and constant. Ref’s dropped the ball.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
that's disturbing
“… yeah detroit basketball is where we like to foul you every time down the court. then throw in a free flagrant after we see that the refs aren’t calling what they should.”
i dissaprove of the coach.
Piston basketball reeks
if that is Piston basketball.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
Bad Boys
Rugged play in the NBA goes back as far as the NBA has been around, but there have been teams and time periods which have seen defensive ‘toughness" condoned and even glorified. The Bulls of the ’70s (Sloan, Van Lier, Boerwinkle) were one of those teams. Chuck Daly’s Pistons. Pat Riley’s Knicks. Jerry Sloan’s Jazz. All of these teams “challenge” the refs to make every call, and (especially during home games) the refs have a decision to make…do they allow contact or make every call and slow down the game then suffer the wrath of the home fans? Even the best (read: thick-skinned) refs can be influenced by the mob mentality. Saying that the officials should be “above that” and call every grab and hold is to overlook basic human nature, as well as league history.
Now, we can argue what kind of basketball is most fun to watch, and that the league should enforce “good behavior” from every team. But I don’t suspect keeping the game free-flowing and “finesse” as being in the league’s best (financial) interest. As with hockey and Nascar, there will always be some fans who come to events to see a fight or a wreck rather than nice backdoor cuts that lead to easy baskets. The extent that the league/refs permit defenses to hinder offensive movement is an ongoing balance, and the proverbial pendulum never swings to the middle. I also observe that playoff basketball is generally more physical, and I expect this will not change any time soon. So, in a sense, it’s “good” for Portland’s players to experience some “tough” defense during the regular season, so they will know how to overcome it (as well as dish it out) when the games count the most.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm not talking about rugged play
I’ve been watching the NBA as long as you have.
The Bulls were tough, but it was Daly’s Pistons that did real damage to the game.
That wasn’t tough defense on Rudy, that was dirty play. And if the Pistons are going to call that “Piston basketball”, and endorse flagrant fouls, they should face heavy fines for doing so, and suspensions if it continues. That stuff has no place on the basketball court.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
Celtics-Lakers
neither team was considered “dirty”
but Kurt Rambis still got thrown to the floor like a rag doll
You’re right, hard contact “shouldn’t” happen. But big men are moving fast and jumping high, and sometimes (in the heat of battle) the “risk” is deemed worth the reward. The league has cracked down on fighting (following the Kermit-Rudy incident) and in recent years the suspensions for flagrant fouls have become more severe.
But when the games are being played “for keeps” I suspect the hard fouls will rear their ugly heads, again. I thought the Blazer player’s “response” to Villanueva’s action was correct: stand up for you teammate, don’t let the foul “get into your head” and ultimately win the game on the scoreboard
But you notice that during the Memphis game, Juwan gave Marc Gasol a hard foul as well. So there’s a “give and take” that will always be there, and the young Blazer players need to learn when and where “sending a message” is appropriate.
I submit that “never” is not necessarily the best answer, if your goal is to win a championship
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Right,
I don’t remember Blazer fans saying that Juwan wasn’t playing “Blazer basketball” and that it had no place in the game when he fouled Gasol, but a whole lot of people defending him and complaining about how “soft” the game had become. People always defend it when it’s their team and get self-righteous when another team does it.
As to the Rudy foul this game, I just don’t understand the outrage. Yes, it was a foul, yes it deserved a flagrant, but was it really that dangerous? Charlie grabbed Rudy before he really got off the ground, didn’t really alter his body angle (as in Rudy stayed upright the entire time), grabbed him low around the waist, and Rudy landed on his feet. If you’re trying to absolutely prevent a guy from getting a shot up, you realistically can’t do it much more safely. His landing on the ground was no more dangerous than any of the 20 times per game that Brandon hits the deck after a drive, as witnessed by the fact that he was sitting up and ready to stand up by the time the “brawl” came over him. If anything, he was more in danger of getting hurt by being stepped on that the actual foul.
Now, the throat grab was obviously indefensible, but let’s keep the rest of it in perspective.
#52
Juwan's foul
was going for the ball first, but he carried through. It was a flagrant foul.
Charlie wasn’t going for the ball at all, he grabbed him around the body, and swung him around 360. It should have been a flagrant 2, IMO. It’s not football.
The throat grab merits a suspension beyond anything meted out for the flagrant.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
I just don't see the flagrant 2
it wasn’t dangerous or malicious, and there was no intent to injure Rudy. Watching it again, it looked like he grabbed him before he even got off the ground, and Rudy just jumped anyways to follow through.
No play on the ball made it a flagrant one, no malicious intent or recklessly dangerous play kept it from being a 2.
Juwan’s was a play on the ball, but was recklessly dangerous in hitting a guy in the air high from behind. It’s simply ridiculous to compare the potential for injury in Juwan’s foul to Villanueva’s. Charlie wasn’t making a play on the ball, but there’s simply no way he wasn’t trying to keep Rudy from being injured, at the same time.
Unless something is not a reasonable play on the ball, AND recklessly endangers the opposing player or else has malicious intent, I just don’t buy a flagrant two. Both these fouls satisfy one of the criteria, but not both.
#52
Juwan got Ball first and then some of Gasol
CV grabbed Rudy to stop him from scoring ….and if it stopped there…nothing but 2 shots…but he didn’t …he then spun Rudy to the ground…for sure Flagrant 1…maybe a 2. I am closer to Jscot’s position on this one…plus I agree he should get a lil sumptin, sumptin for the choke…but he won’t
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 25, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Juwan never touched the ball
tell me this isn’t all wrist at best, particularly as witnessed by the fact that the path of the ball goes directly over where Juwan is swiping from.
Regardless, the natural conclusion by punishing Charlie V. worse than Juwan would be that if Charlie really wanted to prevent the layup, he should have waited for Rudy to go up, and then made a swipe at the ball from behind. Yeah, he probably didn’t have much of a play on the ball and the most likely result would be raking Rudy’s arms and sending him sprawling, but neither did Juwan, and that’s exactly what happened to Gasol. It should be pretty obvious that his would be way more dangerous a play than what actually happened. As to the spinning around, it seems far more a result of his momentum than any special effort to rip Rudy around.
Now, given that “no easy layups” will continue to be a mantra for many teams no matter what, I’d MUCH rather have guys who are fouling making an effort to do it as safely as possible, rather than encouraging them to make more dangerous plays under the guise of “going for the ball”.
#52
Ok wrist...(very near the ball) ....but definitely not head hunting
Plus on Rudy play …all he had to do was just grab him….which he could have done …instead spinning him around …CV did that to send a message….and he got massage sent back to him
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 25, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
You had two guys moving in opposite directions
of course they’re going to get spun around. Try grabbing someone sprinting at you from the side without getting spun around. I have no problem calling either one flagrant, but I think getting outraged at either Juwan for hitting Gasol or Charlie V for grabbing Rudy is equally ridiculous.
Regardless, if an opposing guy HAS to foul a Blazer, I’d much rather have them do it like Charlie V did rather than Juwan, although Juwan didn’t have much choice.
#52
Juwan hit the wrist or hand
he was at most two inches from the ball, and clearly going for the ball.
Villanueva didn’t even pretend to be trying to stop the shot, he played the man all the way.
If you don’t see a difference, well, we disagree.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
So because Ariza was "playing the ball"
that makes it preferable to what Charlie did? Give me a break. I’d rather guys foul someone safely if they’re going to foul than make a dangerous play by adhering to some moronic idea of pretending to play the ball when all they’re trying to do is prevent a layup.
#52
Ariza went through Rudy's head
Juwan caught the top of Marc’s head, which is why he got the flagrant, but I don’t think there was intent to headhunt as there was with Ariza. And yes, I think there was intent with Ariza. Any pretensions that he’s a good guy who doesn’t do nasty things when frustrated ended forever in Toronto this year. He’s a player who loses his head and becomes malicious, and that is exactly what happened with Rudy.
You’re arguing a straw man, of course, I never said Ariza was preferable to what Charlie did. They were both flagrant 2.
You disagree. You’re welcome to your opinion.
#7 #10 #25 #52 -- #5 & #88 are back!
I thought the response was appropriate, too
And I’m not actually sure that Juwan deserved a T. He did grab Villanueva, but a grab on the arm vs. a throat grab is not the same thing, and to give them both matching Ts was not proportionate. And the refs spent enough time reviewing it that they had to have seen the throat grab.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
Not to take credit from Webster, but has anyone else noticed how well Miller/Webster have been playing together?
Not just with the lob passes, but also with some of those 3’s. They were completely set up by Miller, giving Webster some wide open looks. They’re getting a good chemistry going.
How would that be taking credit from Webster?
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 1:35 AM PST up reply actions
So because a point guard did his job, Webster is diminished?
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Haha, you're really on top comments today. I think you've replied to every one on here.
I’m pretty sure I said “not to take credit from Webster” which means Webster wouldn’t be diminished. As for a point guard’s job, some do it a lot better than others and not too many point guards in the league can set people up like Andre does and did. You don’t seem to think much of Miller based on past comments, but maybe you’d be surprised to know that this last month for Miller isn’t abnormal when you look at his career.
I agree
Martell’s hot streak and resulting soaring confidence has coincided with Miller’s increased role in our offense. It’s nice to see a pure PGs influence on a team of young role players
and Martell played the entire game too
that guy must be in amazing shape. He’s been racking up PT.
"In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him."
A theory
Webster shoots better when he plays more minutes, especially when he knows that regardless of how many shot he has missed recently, his usage will remain heavy.
Perhaps there is a way to chart this through his career, but my “impression” with Martell is that when his role is reduced, he doesn’t shoot as well. I don’t think this is unusual among NBA players, and that’s why some flourish as 30+mpg starters while others do better as “microwave” 6th men. The reason I bring this up is obvious: Batum is about to be activated. It will be interesting to see if Marty can continue his hot shooting after Nic’s presence naturally cuts into his playing time. Sometimes, less isn’t more. We’ll be watching
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nice work on the recap duty, Ben
And nice work on being a shredder, Martell Webster
Dictated, not read. The management.
i'm thinking that Webster has a real opportunity to transform into a special player
I also think he performs better when the game is faster paced. Not sure how to quantify that argument, however.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 2:27 AM PST up reply actions
He had an outstanding game, but his offense is still wildly inconsistent.
His defense has been very steady, this season, however. I appreciate his great defense night in and night out over the occasional 28 point game…it’s a nice bonus when he is the 2nd or 3rd leading scorer, for sure. Theoretically, we won’t need to depend on a scoring explosion from him to win a game when Brandon and company get back. At this point, when he is having one of those offensive quarters/games, the opposing player seems stunned. It’s funny—I don’t think opposing teams discuss Webster much in their game prep.
by RenoBlazerFan on Jan 24, 2010 6:05 AM PST up reply actions
It's no coincidence that Webster's recent run comes when Miller gets control of the offense.
Miller pretty much sets the ball on a tee and lets Webster swing away. We’ve had this debate about whether Miller “needs the ball in his hands” too much. The players who can’t create their own shots certainly benefit when Miller has the ball in his hands.
by lickety brindle on Jan 24, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, but
Roy too was always great at finding guys for open 3’d off of his drives.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
I think they are discussing Webster a lot
He can knock in 2-3 3 pointers in a row and turn a game, and everyone knows that now. With Brandon out, he’s a major focus. You don’t want to leave him open for easy shots and have him get in a rhythm.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
I thought I was reading Dave....
Your writing is much more enjoyable then previously.
(our) great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit, our system of of credit is privately concentrated, the growth of our nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
--- Woodrow Wilson
No, sir, it was not a merry-go-round ride.
Charlie Villanueva took some time out of his busy schedule to give Rudy Fernandez a free ride on a merry-go-round .
It was an airplane ride.
there was a great Far Side cartoon
where the farmer gave the animals “airplane” rides, complete with fake “scenery”
the caption read: “the next time around, however, Bessie failed to clear the mountains”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nate for COY!
Didn’t read closely but I don’t think there was a single comment giving McMillian any credit. What he has done with this depleted team is truly astonishing!
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
I'm not astonished
Nate is a good coach with a depleted roster. It’s whether he is a good coach with a loaded roster that remains the multi-million dollar question.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 24, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
I can't take Nate's coaching any more
Why can’t he get the concept of riding the hot hand???! Who was the hottest Blazer last night? Right, Martell Webster! And what did Nate do? Yep…He pulled Martell, with a narrow 4 point lead, and never put him back into the game! What a fool. Fire Nate!
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 24, 2010 10:23 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Well...that is a whole other topic
It was one thing when it was Rafe he wasn’t playing….but when he stops playing Oden, Bayless, and Roy? Unconscionable!
" Welcome to the Bedge....where good, is never good enough"…Rudiculous
by 92wastheyear on Jan 24, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Pendergraph's nickname is ...
First, remember back to the Oakland Raiders Ken "the Snake’ Stabler, the pre-cursor to Jake “the Snake” of ASU fame and NFL less than fame.
Coined on another site, the similarity of facial hair and tactics was compared to … wait for it … another pro athlete of Portland legend—Dutch Savage. Thus, the actual nickname is Jeff “Savage” Pendergraph. “The Savage” works fine if you want it 2 words.
[With no intent on linking to another site or being rude, the original post was by ucatchtrout. If you want the original post, I’ll provide it so long as Ben and Dave have no objections.]
Links to other sites?
Ben does it all the time, and it is encouraged.
#10 #25 #52 #88 -- #5 is back!
I was incredibly happy in that first half but watching the huge lead slip away was disappointing.
I’m not sure why Juwan was kept in so long during the third quarter collapse because he was providing next to nothing to the team.
But, it was nice to see LMA at least start the game with two drives into the paint and see Blake playing some good basketball.
Also, RUDY RUDY RUDY
MARTELL MARTELL MARTELL
Silver linings. Silver linings. Silver linings.
because if we had to sacrifice a big man in a potential ejection of the game,
we’d rather it be juwan and not aldridge…
nate knew something was going to go down on the the court during the third quarter…
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Jan 24, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I'd argue Jeff Pendergraph's rebounding and hustle would have been a much better center choice during that run.
Defense was sorely lacking in the middle which Juwan Howard was partly responsible for.
Silver linings. Silver linings. Silver linings.
nate
" It’s whether he is a good coach with a loaded roster that remains the multi-million dollar question."
It’s a sign of good coaching to get a depleted team to play at the top of its game.
When it comes to a roster bloated with talent, however, I don’t think a coach alone can address the inherently unstable nature of that situation. I think that situation requires action on the part of the general manager.
both Nate and KP have said that depth is a good thing
They’d rather have that “problem” than not enough talent, etc
Blazer fans have become sensitized to this “too much depth dilemma” by the Whitsitt “I wasn’t a chemistry major” regime. What it comes down to (to me) is building a roster that can win multiple playoff series and a championship. That kind of roster isn’t “always” the best regular season roster, because it will be heavier on veterans and big men than young players and wings. Maybe that’s an “old school” way of looking at the NBA playoffs, but even recent league championship history has shown “the race to the trophy” doesn’t go to the swift (or uptempo) teams, but to the long/tough teams that can defend/rebound well and grind out possessions and enforce their will on the opponent.
Perhaps that explains why I’m more interested in seeing Portland add a veteran PF/C as opposed to wondering how Patty Mills will be a regular Blazer rotation player in years to come? In the NBA, in May/June, size and experience beats youth and quickness. If you know that’s how the “rules of engagement” are set up ahead of time, then that’s how you should prepare your unit, to compete and win the ultimate prize.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
it may sound good
Having an army of world class chefs unfortunately spoils the broth.
Certainly not an issue for the Blazers right now, and I suspect it won’t be too much of an issue the remainder of the season. But I do think it is something that will require attention before next season.
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