FT disparity in LAL game

by FromAfar on Jan 10, 2010 7:28 AM PST

I posted this over at SS&R. But it was deleted for being inflammatory. [I thought I presented some factual content and complimented the Lakers as a usually excellent defensive team, Oh Well]. I do not want to represent BE badly on other forums and am going to desist from further posts. If any of you think there is reasonable content here and want to give it a shot, feel free. At any rate, I'm posting back in BEdger land, with the preface that it was originally written towards Laker fans.

I am a Blazer fan and am not trolling. I came over to SS&R after the game to get your perspective. I was surprised to see so much discussion on the FT disparity and conducted quick analysis. I post this material to get your feedback.

Disparity in FTs vs Disparity in Fouls called.

Q1: POR 3 fouls, LAL 2 fouls; Brandon Roy leaves game with 5 minutes left in quarter after being called for two fouls, and yet POR ends quarter up 30-24. Blame the refs?
Q2: LAL bench racks up 5 quick fouls in first 4 minutes of quarter. After which LAL only gets called for 4 more fouls in quarter. Total fouls LAL:9, POR 4; Score at end of quarter 55-43. Blame the refs because the LAL bench picked up quick fouls?
Q3: POR 3 fouls, LAL 2 fouls; Score at end of quarter 81-71. Blame the refs?
Q4: Score with 06:29 left in 4th quarter, POR 94, LAL 74. Fouls called in quarter at this point; Odom+LAL bench:4, POR:2; Blame the refs for the lead ballooning to 20 points?

Final count
- LAL: 22 fouls (24 less 2 deliberate fouls in last minute)
- POR: 15 fouls
The disparity in trips to the line, do not match up to disparity in number of fouls called. Maybe its more about getting fouls called in bunches and being in the penalty too soon. Discounting the 2 deliberate fouls in the last minute, the starters only got called for 11 fouls. The LAL bench on the other hand, played just 45 minutes and got called for 11 fouls (ie a foul every 4.1 minutes of PT).

Maybe the LAL bench is a little too foul prone. Maybe even that the LAL bench are taught to play like bruisers. Brown and Mbenga picked up 9 of the 24 fouls themselves. After all, Blazer fans recall the painful throw down that Trevor Ariza put on Rudy Fernandez last year after the game was well out of reach. BTW, Rudy has suffered from a back injury ever since and recently underwent back surgery as a direct outcome of that throw-down.

I do think that the Blazers played some inspired defense last night. Repeatedly, the defense got to spots a step ahead of the offense. The Lakers have been known to play similar excellent defense, and invariably the FT disparity in those games are tilted in their favor. For fans of a team that usually plays great defense and has been the beneficiary of FT disparity, you've got to give the Blazers credit when they do get it right. [And you've got to acknowledge that the Lakers have not been playing inspired defense for several games now].

Martell played the best defensive game ever. The team did a great job of double teaming in the post (or showing double teams) especially on Bynum and quite often on Kobe. Usually when Brandon (and, yes Brandon is a superstar) gets well defended it results in very few shot attempts because Brandon's nature is to give the ball up. You dont see Brandon tossing up 37 attempts. Even last year, he scored 52 on 14/27 shooting. Kobe on the other hand, often manufactures some fantastic shots, and he is therefore more prone to forcing shots. Kobe shot 38% and the rest of the Lakers shot 47%. Maybe he should have given the ball up more often.

A final telling stat, the Blazers were called for two offensive fouls. Not a single offensive fouls was called against the Lakers. Were the Lakers not trying hard enough on offense?

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Comments

I get how...

They wouldn’t like that. It was a little rough, and the “bruiser” comments are probably what did it. By the way are you correct in your statement that Rudy’s back issues are traced back to that fall?

by SamGoody on Jan 10, 2010 8:42 AM PST via mobile reply actions

Statement on Rudy's back issues was reported by the Mikes

The metric was that the bench picked up an inordinate number of fouls in the short time that they were there. The postulate was that they were either foul prone, or being deliberately asked to do so.

Mbenga and Brown for the Lakers picked up 9 of the total 24 fouls called in the mere 23 minutes that they played between them. Teams seem to have “enforcers”, and enforcers are particularly active when opponents are enjoying success in the paint. [We too have enforcers in Pendergraph and Przy]. At some point, one has got to accept the consequences of strategies.

Might not be pleasant reading, but there is still sufficient basis.

by FromAfar on Jan 10, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions

doesn't take too much to put two and two together with rudy's back problems and the ariza foul

since that fall, rudy has been dealing with chronic back pain.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jan 10, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions

I had a similar fall

and my back is still messed up. I suffer from chronic severe back pain and I didnt even land on a hardwood floor like he did. My accident was over 4 years ago, and my back is still jacked up. I hate to say it but, Rudy will deal with this for the rest of his life. Im no where near as athletic as Rudy, or in as great shape either, but there is nobody on earth that could take a fall like that and not be hurting still today, noone.

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 10, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions

I believe Rudy's back problem did stem from the Ariza induced fall. And I have read that Phil

Jackson has players whose roles are to “get under the skin” of the opponent. I think they are not supposed to be FOUL prone but they are definitely out there to cause some trouble. Other teams do as well….Denver’s BIRDMAN..comes to mind.

by Natsthecat on Jan 10, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions

I believe this blog post (I can't translate it, someone else had)

relays all the information about the Trevor Ariza foul

Bring the bling to Rip City, Natch'

Trade John Canzano!

by richardb on Jan 10, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions

.....

here

Bring the bling to Rip City, Natch'

Trade John Canzano!

by richardb on Jan 10, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions

If the Lakers had won the way the Blazers did

and a laker fan posted that here, I would have deleted it too, because it is inflammatory. It would have been much better if you didn’t add the “blame the refs?” line after each fact you researched, because that line come across as very trollish, as if you are just looking for a response and not a discussion.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jan 10, 2010 9:09 AM PST reply actions

This was my thought too

You may not have meant to be inflammatory, but it comes across that way anyway.

by Gargen on Jan 10, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions

huh, I was curious why it was inflammatory

it didnt seem to bad to me, but ofcourse im a diehard Blazers fan

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 10, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions

Sounds good. Thanks for feedback.

Guess I was particularly responding to the game recap posted by their primary blogger:

As a matter of policy, I choose not to blame refs when my team loses. That sort of thing is for amateurs. I’d be remiss, however, if I didn’t begin our review of the Los Angeles Lakers’ 107-98 loss to the Portland Trail Blazers tonight by noting the differing frequencies with which the two teams went to the free-throw line. For every 10 field-goal attempts the Lakers took, they generated about one free-throw attempt. For every 10 Portland field-goal attempts, they shot six free throw attempts. You might go the rest of your life without seeing a disparity that big in an NBA game.

which was the leading paragraph before the jump.

by FromAfar on Jan 10, 2010 9:14 AM PST reply actions

sorry meant for it to be reply.

by FromAfar on Jan 10, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions

I'd just reply to that post with your post and take out the part about Rudy and the bruisers...change it to enforcers..

Your points are good and it would be good to just state the facts.

by Natsthecat on Jan 10, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions

Yeah I probably wouldn't like this if I was a Laker fan...

but i’m not. So I do.

by In Walks Rudy on Jan 10, 2010 9:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

Looking at it from this point of view

It is difficult to not agree with you that the fouls were mainly on the bench players, who seemed to be content fouling early in the quarter and on shot attempts, which led to the free throw disparity.

by SabasforThree on Jan 10, 2010 9:35 AM PST reply actions

Yup, take away 9 quick fouls on Brown and Mbenga

at the start of the second and fourth quarters and the fouls called were even 15 vs 15. From a number of fouls perspective, its interesting the huge impact that these 2 bench players made over such a small stretch of time.

But if you look at the quarter by quarter comparison closer, in the first and third quarters, Portland was called for more fouls, but made more trips to the line. The Lakers seemed to be playing half step slow on defense and being called for shooting fouls, whereas Portland was being aggressive on defense and were being called for bodying up.

The FT disparity did not correlate to disparity in fouls; and I put forward that suggestions of homerism by either SS&R or even our own bloggers might be misplaced.

The Blazers played great defense. To me what was most encouraging is that they played a brand of defense, especially perimeter defense, that I did not know they were capable of. Its one thing to see the team trying hard, but assuming that they just did not have the skills. But as a fan, its quite a different feeling to look back on this game and know that they are capable, and we just have to wait for it to come together. Hope this game becomes the watershed moment from which point onwards Blazers are known as a defensive juggernaut. [And we dont even have our true centers].

Admittedly the penetrator was Kobe and we had Martell on him. Maybe its a different story when the penetrator is small quick PG, and we dont have sufficient lateral foot speed. Also Kobe has been playing hurt, and it would have been a completely different story if Kobe was making his shots. Still the Blazers played inspired defense and should get due recognition and kudos.

by FromAfar on Jan 10, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions