Jason Quick expects a mid-season trade
Jason Quick was on with Wheels this afternoon and said "I do think a deal will have to be struck during the season, around the trading deadline. There’s just too many guys who can play on this roster and I think you’ll see maybe a ‘2-for-1’ type deal, where the Blazers ‘thin out’ some of those logjams. And I think it’s probably gonna have to be a Travis or a Martell. I don’t think they’ll do Nic, but maybe even a Bayless might be on the trading block this year. But boy, everything I’m hearing from people is that Webster is really, really looking impressive"
over 2 years ago
two4larue
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I'll wait to pass judgement on how
good Martell looks until I see it. I’m hoping he’s better than Roy, but I was told last year that Greg was looking All Star like and he ended up being intermittently beastly and lost.
Show us what you got, Marty.
It wasn't the first time I'd been kicked in the cherries and called a rat by a woman, but it was the first time I didn't mind.
Martel
Will be the #2 guy on the team this year. He is determined, he is focused, he is healthy.
"Intent is prior to content, the question is, does this generation really want truth?"
"Cogito ergo sum" -Descartes
Yeah, that's best case
It’s hard to believe he’ll contribute more than any of Roy, LMA, GO, and Miller.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I think Marty is capable of being the # 2 man on the Zers
one thing has to change to make that happen though. More sets with marty runnng off a baseline pick posting up 15ish feet away.
He’s just deadly with the mid range post game. I can’t be the only one who’s noticed the this.
by DephlatorMouse on Sep 9, 2009 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions
martell is great
and it is nothing nothing against martell, i am just that high lma. aldridge is borderline allstar level.
You said you are high
I’m not sure whether that classifies as saying nothing or not.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
i really need to stop commenting tonight
i dont think i have correctly typed one yet. i mean to say that i am that high ON lma… although…….
what the hell is this for?
Lack of a handle/crossover
really limits Martell
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
Martell Webster's poor handles and lack of lateral quickness limit him to being a so-so ...
small forward in the NBA. Webster, by the way, has almost no chance of surpassing Nicolas Batum, who’s the vastly superior one between them due to his advantages in age, athleticism, defense, and even overall shooting efficiency.
All things considered, Webster is nothing more than a marginal role player. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a homer, pure and simple.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
And anyone that disagrees with me is an idiot
might as well just say it next time.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Sep 9, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me
Martel just started his rookie contract. He has much more potential to show, he’s 22 athletic and ready to drop 3’s on anyone who doubts
"Intent is prior to content, the question is, does this generation really want truth?"
"Cogito ergo sum" -Descartes
Oddly enough, Martell Webster was right to not attend the University of Washington.
If Webster had attended UW for four years, he’d’ve never been an overhyped lottery pick coming straight out of high school.
I bet that if Webster came out this year he’d’ve been a middle second-round pick in the range of Danny Green, who’s also a one-dimensional spot-up shooting small forward with decent defensive potential.
I’m glad Webster didn’t attend the UW, though, as Quincy Pondexter — who enrolled a year after Webster spurned the school — brought a slashing and rebounding prowess that a one-dimensional player such as Webster would’ve been incapable of providing the team.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
Lucas is a homer, then?
but Mo has been in Portland for awhile, so I guess he qualifies
(Webster is 22, don’t shovel dirt on his career, just yet)
I like Batum’s upside more than MW as well, but there’s no reason they can’t be a tag team at the 3
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You got fished in
How much did AK see Webster play when he still had the Sonics to watch to make a fair assessment of Webster’s ability? I’m not sold on Webster because I think he’s injury prone; I haven’t seen him play in a year so I have no idea what role he might fill for the Blazers.
nobody has any idea
which is why making any kind of a definitive statement re: Martell is…premature
but everyone who has seen him play this month has come away impressed, and that encourages me
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Weren't you a Sonics fan when Webster was healthy?
Not saying you haven’t seen him play, but it’s not like he was a big focal point in the Blazers offense in the first place. I would reserve your usual polarizing claims until the season starts. Anyone who definitively defines what Webster is or isn’t is just blowing smoke.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 9, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Hi, Dr. Nick!!!
Drop me a line, I hit on the Blazer movie and want to have him ship it straight to you to save a little postage.
I will need it back when it is converted, I’ll try to find a permanent home for it.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I like him as a change of pace from Batum
Better shooting and better equipped to handle the bigger SFs in the league. He’s going to be very rusty after missing an entire season. Hopefully, he spent a lot of his rehab time working on his dribbling.
I would look for Webster to be a scoring threat off the bench that replaces Outlaw’s scoring when we move him in this 2 for 1 trade.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Quick has been wrong on everything lately. There has to be a trade, it seems… but Quick saying this means nothing. He was wrong last summer, at the draft last year, at last year’s trading deadline, and at the draft this year.
"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.
In the new media environment created by the internet, being wrong consistently
does not disqualify one form being considered an expert.
I blame quantum physics.
Before the trade deadline.....
Quick was 99.9% sure something mind boggling was going to happen. I put Quick just a nose hair above Dave in terms of his prognostications and that is only because he spends his days with the team.
Quick says lots of things
Like that the Bazers and B-Roy hated each other during negotiations. Wasn’t true and this isn’t either.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Am I wrong, or does this look like the man tossing the birds a few breadcrumbs?
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
I can't trust Quick anymore. He breaks stories, yes.
He was the first to break Roy’s stalled negotiations. I will continue to trust his news, but for the last year ( or two ) his predictions have turned out wrong. I’m sure he said that because it’s what he ( and probably quite a few of Bedgers ) want to happen. Obviously we need to consolidate talent.
I don't get this types of trade talk
Who do you get back? I’ve heard of salary dump trades but not talent dump trades.
by tominhawaii on Sep 9, 2009 1:27 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Precisely
You don’t dump players because you have too many good ones. You do a 2 for 1 trade if it brings an upgrade in talent or because the player coming in is a better fit.
Who will we get for these players we are talent dumping? If it is a more talented player, where will his playing time come from?
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
A few of us have proposed deals
myself, AK1984, RFS1970, it would be hard to read BE regularly and not have seen ’em
Outlaw for a veteran backup 4
Outlaw and Bayless for a better veteran big man
Outlaw and Blake for a better SF (GWallace, etc)
etc
Quick isn’t saying anything new, Jaynes and Vance have been speculating the Blazers need to “thin the herd” ever since last spring, as well. The fact that it hasn’t happened (yet) only means that KP hasn’t been able to “slap” anyone, because he asks for the moon (according to A-Woj, etc) and won’t settle for less
Meanwhile, his roster has logjams at the wing and is one veteran big man short of a full deal deal (Howard and Swift aren’t going to be the answer, either…)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
There's a difference
You are proposing trades to fill a need. Quick is talking as if you need to make trades because you have too many good players at a position.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
that's true
but perhaps Quick knows (from experience) that too many good/healthy players and not enough PT can eventually lead to locker-room issues?
perhaps, it’s certainly been seen on multiple teams, throughout NBA history
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Oh
I normally skip over 95% of any trade talk in treads because I don’t think they’ll ever happen. I’m not sure I’ve read a single trade proposal since joining BE that ended up happening. I understand that trade talk is probably more than 50% of the reason folks go to basketball blogs, so I don’t hate, I just don’t normally read them.
whatever floats your boat
I prefer to think (and comment) critically about “what will most help the Blazer team to win another championship” (and I’ve done this, for decades) So, I tend to stay out of the BE “junk drawer”
diff’rent strokes
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Exactly
I think trades can improve the team, I just prefer to talk about them after they happen.
I got turned off of trades when folks would say, “Trade player X with filler for superstar player Y.” I also just got sick of folks hating on a Blazer and wanting him traded with little or no regard to whom came back to the team.
I’ll take Outlaw over Gerald Wallace any day. That guy has never played 82 games in a season.
Gerald Wallace is a supremely better player than Travis Outlaw overall, but there are ...
questions about his durability and whether or not Nate McMillan could implement a system that’d effectively utilize a slashing small forward who frequently crashes down the baseline rather than launches spot-up corner three-point shots.
With an average, rigid coach like McMillan at the helm, the best way to keep his brain from overloading and imploding is to provide him players that fit his simplistic system. Although I really like Wallace, he isn’t one of those kind of players. Rather, McMillan runs his offense most smoothly with guy at the 3 who can spread the offense like Rashard Lewis.
Now, McMillan had a natural slasher under his wing during the early 2000s with Demsond Mason. McMillan, however, foolishly turned “The Cowboy” into an inefficient chucker — as 79% of his field-goal attempts with Seattle during the 2002-2003 season were jump shots, while just 64% of his field-goal attempts with Milwuakee after being dealt partway during the 2002-2003 season were jump shots — which is an indication of stubborn coaching.
http://82games.com/02SEA8A.HTM
http://82games.com/02MIL7A.HTM
On a similar note, Kevin Pritchard and McMillan have had trouble in the past getting on the same wavelength. The selections of an up-tempo playmaker (i.e., Sergio Rodriguez) and an undersized gunner (i.e. Jerryd Bayless) at the point were doomed to fail from the get-go, but at least Pritchard learned by pairing a sharp-shooting off guard (i.e., Steve Blake) and a dribble-drive/post-up/mid-range jump shooting floor general (i.e., Andre Miller) at that spot.
With Portland, Miller will fill a role similar to that of Antonio Daniels on the 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 Seattle SuperSonics. I, however, do have some fears with how Brandon Roy and Miller will mesh with each other — as Daniels’ dribble-drive skills were paired with a dead-eye marksman from downtown at shooting guard in Ray Allen — but let’s hope that the offense won’t bog down with two backcourt players who rely a lot on iso plays.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
I don't doubt Wallace is better
I do think his averages are high because he never plays a full season. He averaged 58.5 games a season.
RT: I got turned off of trades when folks would say
I could quote a few cliches like “you’ve gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you get a prince” or “eat the fish, spit out the bones” but trade proposals are the grist that runs the message board of every pro team (especially during the offseason)
armchair GMs R us
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah
I don’t mind them for that reason and I used to like them too. Like I said earlier, they just never seem to happen so I gave up caring about them.
I lost interest once Portland had a team worth rooting for.
Constantly proposing trades is a sign of one of two things:
a) your team sucks and you are reduced to fantaszing about how it could become better.
or
b) you have become addicted to the trade machine and now think of yourself as a potential GM, waitiing to be discovered.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Sep 11, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awe don't be so angry
What’s wrong with 400 + comment arguing about a guy we all hope doesn’t get more than 10 minutes a night?
People who talk about "thinning the roster" and the need for a trade ...
… are simply exercising their guims, not telling us anything that is useful, insightful or even with any bearing on fact.
Such talk is from people who think they know a lot about basketball. If Martell displays all-star skills this year and seizes the starting 3 spot, it is not confirmation that Outlaw and Batum have to be traded. If Miller and Blake form the perfect tandem at PG and Bayless gets no court time, it is not written in stone that he must then go.
The Blazers have control of Bayless and Batum for three more years. A lot can happen in that time. Meanwhile Pritchard, along with Nate and the rest of the Portland brain trust, will continue to evaluate the team they have and the possible opportunities that come available to see if there is a way to get even better.
hakkaa päälle !
Or perhaps they see holes that need filling that you don't believe are there.
Of course, if you are the authority on what’s useful, insightful, or has any bearing on fact, then they must be wrong.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 9, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
If people are talking about holes that need filling
that is a constructive discussion.
Talking about “thinning the roster”, which is what he was talking about, is kind of silly.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
It's killing two birds with one stone, though.
1. The team has a logjam at small forward, with Travis Outlaw as the odd man out in this equation. There’s also a quandry with Jerryd Bayless that’ll soon reach a boiling point, for there’s no way that he’ll be satisfied riding the pine as a fitfth guard.
2. The team needs a role player who can backup LaMarcus Aldridge at power forward and fill in at center if/when Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla get into foul trouble, are knicked up throughout the season, or suffer from a serious injury.
In the NBA, some guys are best served putting up empty stats on a crap team (e.g., Outlaw & Bayless) and other guys are best served as role players on a playoff powerhouse (e.g., Jeff Foster & Nick Collison).
After looking back at all of my previous trade proposals centered around this issue — with most of which being similar to one another — the following is my favorite of the bunch.
“FROM NEW JERSEY
2010 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Dallas Mavericks)
Conditional Draft Pick(s) (Via The Golden State Warriors: Top-14 Protected In 2011, Top-11 Protected In 2012, & Top-10 Protected In 2013; If First-Round Pick Isn’t Conveyed By 2013 It Becomes A 2013 Second-Round Draft Pick & 2015 Second-Round Draft Pick)
FROM OKLAHOMA CITY
Nick Collison ($6,250,000)
FROM PORTLAND
Travis Outlaw ($3,600,000)
Jerryd Bayless ($2,143,080)
TO NEW JERSEY
Travis Outlaw ($3,600,000)
TO OKLAHOMA CITY
Jerryd Bayless ($2,143,080)
TO PORTLAND
Nick Collison ($6,250,000)
2010 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Dallas Mavericks)
Conditional Draft Pick(s) (Via The Golden State Warriors: Top-14 Protected In 2011, Top-11 Protected In 2012, & Top-10 Protected In 2013; If First-Round Pick Isn’t Conveyed By 2013 It Becomes A 2013 Second-Round Draft Pick & 2015 Second-Round Draft Pick)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kr6gkq
Since the New Jersey Nets have a sizeable trade exception from the Vince Carter trade, the team can absorb Travis Outlaw’s contract. Oh, and with regards to Jerryd Bayless also being included in this deal, all I’ve got to say to that is good riddance to bad rubbish."
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kr6gkq
Realistically, though, my fear is that Kevin Pritchard will continue to stick his fingers in his ears, turn the other way, and ignore the quagmire that’s brewing on hand.
With Outlaw and Bayless likely to have dwindled playing time and none at all, respectively, they’ll both moan and groan incessently early on in the season.
Bayless’ angst doesn’t worry due to his frustration probably being bottled up or dealt with off the court through phone calls between his agent and the front office, but I can foresee Outlaw screwing with on-court chemistry by disrupting the offensive flow and chucking up stupid shots that’d make Jason McElwain stop to think twice.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
You worry too much.
Nothing in Travis’ time with the Blazers has given any indication that he is or could be a disruptive player. If anything, he has shown to be exactly the opposite. Additionally, were he to suddenly show an interest in being disruptive, how long do you think it would be before either Roy or McMillan put an end to it?
Just because one can put together trade proposals that look good (and I happen to like the one above rather a lot) doesn’t mean that those deals are possible or available to the Blazers. Nor does it mean that they would be as good of a deal as we might think, were they really available.
Worst case here is that come next summer, Travis walks when his contract expires. As for Bayless, worse case is we end up with a #11 pick that we get little out of. Considering the reasons, that’s not much of a loss.
hakkaa päälle !
As I view it, Travis Outlaw and Jerryd Bayless are different kinds of disruptive.
With Bayless, it’d be more about off-court negotiations between him, his agent, the front office, the coaching staff, et cetera. That tension wouldn’t interfer with the other players or hurt the ballclub’s performance; thus, moving him is about doing what’s best for all parties directly involved rather than anything to do with team dynamics.
All things considered, I’d be satisfied if Bayless is traded, forced to ride the pine as a fifth guard, or shuffled off to Boise, ID to peddle his wares amongst D-Leaguers. I, however, will roll my eyes in disgruntled vexation if Bayless sees any playing time that isn’t during garbage minutes. As a result, it’d be best if he’s dealt immediately; consequently, there’s no chance of him receiving important minutes in Portland.
Outlaw, on the other hand, is the kind of guy who’s reportedly a great character guy in the locker room and brings a lot to the table regarding off-court chemistry, which is the most fatuous, half-baked concept in sports. As long as professional athletes can work together effectively on the court in a job atmosphere, there’s absolutely no need whatsoever for them to be buddy-buddy off the court at bars, clubs, family get-togethers, et cetera.
Yet, when it comes to on-court chemistry, Outlaw is a selfishly inefficient player on offense who distrubs the offensive flow with his feckless, good-for-nothing style of one-one-one basketball. That, along with his poor fundamentals on defense and boxing out for rebounds, makes him the antithesis of a team-oriented player.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
But when you "roll your eyes in disgruntled vexation"
surely you’ll put it on Youtube? That’s Comedy Gold.
ignacio
RT: the most fatuous, half-baked concept in sports
and I always thought it was “it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game”
(or, maybe my “favorite” Snapperism)
’the calls will even out over the course of the game"
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The reason KP keeps sticking his fingers in his ears
Possibilities:
1. He values players based on other things than your opinion.
2. He uses things other than your opinion to evaluate players.
3. He doesn’t consider your opinion determinative in his evaluation of players.
4. Your opinion of player values holds little weight with him.
5. When assessing player values, your opinion does not drive his decisions.
I suspect there are other possibilities as well.
Though the trade you propose appears pretty well balanced, it isn’t going to happen right now. It might at mid-season, but only if Nate reports that Bayless isn’t showing progress.
The reason?
Backup PF is usually going to be a pretty easy position to fill. Next summer, we’ll have our MLE. The next summer, we might have Freeland.
Our best shots at a championship are not this year or even next, but in 2012 and following, as Greg Oden develops. And KP is confident that he can solve the backup PF dilemma by then without too much trouble.
But not the PG dilemma. Andre Miller might possibly be around and effective in 2012, but probably not beyond then, and finding a starting PG when you have no cap room and no lottery picks can be difficult.
And contrary to your opinion, KP thinks there is a reasonable possibility that Bayless is going to be that solution. People may disagree with his assessment, but we all know that is his assessment.
So he isn’t going to trade away a potential long-term solution at PG to fill a short-term need at PF that he expects to be able to fill by next summer at the latest, anyway.
So he’ll keep sticking his fingers in his ears to your proposals.
If by mid-season Nate is telling him, “Jerryd isn’t going to work out,” that might well change.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
by jscot on Sep 10, 2009 2:05 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I didn't have to read any further than ...
… 1) He values players based on other things than your opinion. to know I was reccing this.
Now I’ll get back to reading the rest of it.
hakkaa päälle !
i helped
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
RT: Pritchard, along with Nate and the rest of the Portland brain trust, will continue to evaluate the team they have and the possible opportunities that come available to see if there is a way to get even better.
as do I
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Difference is ...
… with them it means something and not just a means to pass the time.
hakkaa päälle !
and
they know who’s really available around the league and the rest of us have to sift through the rumor mill and guess which ones really have “legs”
FWIW, I’ll never call a working coach or GM an “idiot” but I reserve the right to second-guess any of their moves or hesitation
it helps pass the time
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Half of that makes sense
Second guessing moves they made is logical, if a little bit unfair.
Second guessing “hesitation” only makes sense if you know on which moves they hesitated. And all we have is rumors.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
rumors from several, independent sources
can make a huge difference, to me
like the difference that Andre Miller would’ve made in the Houston series, last April? We didn’t hear about Portland’s interest in Miller at the Feb trading deadline until after he was signed in July. But I can tell you that after seeing Philly beat Portland at the RG later in the season, this was one “hesitation” move by KP that deserves to be “second-guessed”
The 2007 “Devin Harris for Jack/Frye/Outlaw” (!) non-deal is another
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'll make a proposal
Trout and Bayless to Minny for Brian Cardinal and the rights to Rubio. Cardinal sucks but he’s at least a back-up 4 for only one year but we get Rubio by Mller’s last year
Kahn wouldn't go for it
offer Rudy for Rubio’s rights and he just might agree. But better to wait a few years, if possible
(I don’t want Cardinal, regardless)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If you don't stop trying to trade my Rudy, I'm coming over there ....
Seriously, wait for next summer. Then we’ll know about Rudy, Webster, and Batum, and how it all fits together.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 10, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
so far I've offered him for Devin Harris and the rights to Rubio
and that’s it, to my knowledge. There will be a moment when hanging onto Rudy one day longer will result in less “return” in a trade. I don’t know when that day will be, but it’s the day before Rudy or his agent make the “I’m not getting enough PT” trade request. Last spring I said “sometime in the next 18-24 months” so I guess I should amend that to 15-21 months, now
…unless Roy suffers a career-threatening injury, I don’t think #5 fits in long-term in Portland. It’s up to KP to know “for who” and “when” to flip him. I like Harris and the potential of Ricky more than watching Rudy get more and more frustrated with his limited time at SG in a Blazer uniform.
It’s not personal, it’s just business
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I swear I heard a comment that Webster was the level that Brandon Roy was at coming into the league.
Which makes me think he could be a Terry Porter like player for us, maybe better.
Everyone talks about him needing better handle to be a top 3 option
I think you keep him running screens, but ADD posting him up 5-6 times a game & he’s around a 20PPG player. He’s lethal with the 10-15ft fade-away jumper from the post. He also has a killer spin move from the post.
by DephlatorMouse on Sep 9, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
nearly anyone can be a 20 ppg player if they have enough FGA
Efficiency is what will get him those shots and thus points.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Wendell Maxey seems to have his finger on the prognosticatory pulse
moreso than Quick. He called “no moves” at the last trade deadline. He also called a few other things.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
We all knew that anyway, the interesting part is Marty
I have this weird feeling he’s going to be a stud yet.
Blazer Fan
Go Martell!!!
Martell > Kobe!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
Let's be real...
Martell is quite talented: he is a great shooter, can rebound and can run the floor. He has shown the ability to defend and at times (Utah 2008) can take over a game.
However, his ball handling skills are below average and he is not a creator with the ball. He is not a Roy, more like an Outlaw-plus.
100% maybe!
As far as prognastication goes, that’s a pretty easy one for Quick. Certainly predicting that eventually this team will trim the roster is not stretching too far. Who or when is a little bit more tricky, I do think The Blazers just want to see how things play out with Webster, Outlaw, Batum. Plus the aspect you always have to respect is that you can want to do a trade, realize that it would be beneficial but as always it takes at least two teams that have mutually desirable assets. The Blazers won’t make a trade just to make a trade, and I don’t think KP would make a trade JUST to trim the roster. It would have to be a trade that helps the team either immediately or in the future.
The interesting opinion is that he says “even a Bayless might be on the trading block this year”. Well again how suprising is that? We obtained Andre Miller and evidently have no intention of trading Blake so where does that leave Bayless? Behind the scenes I have no idea how Bayless is evaluated, but it seems to me since his summer league showing, any buzz about Bayless has disappeared. Bayless pretty quickly went to from “this is his chance to prove himself” to Bay Who? The Blazers still might value Bayless as the eventual succesor to either Blake or Miller, Bayless is young enough, BUT it seems obvious to me, that he did not impress someone important with his summer league performance.
In anycase, I’m sure The Blazers want to see who does what with their stable of young SF. I’m also sure Bayless isn’t defined as “untouchable”. A mid-season trade? I’m 100% sure that maybe it would happen.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
i like the idea
of letting it play out and seeing what happens. i am pretty sure that for the time being, bayless is not going anywhere. if i remember correctly, a few deals may have gone down but they were unwilling to get rid of bayless. however, bayless is not playing much this season unless, god forbid, an injury occurs.
what the hell is this for?
I'm there too
If there is no trade, Outlaw will still most likely not be resigned at the end of the season and the advocates of thinning the SF position will get their wish.
not me
I don’t want to see Travis walk, he’s a valuable asset and KP should get full value for him
just like I wasn’t happy re: the “return” on Channing Frye and Sergio Rodriguez. Hanging onto a player “too long” is just as bad as having too much depth at one position, and not enough at another
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Sergio was the 27th pick in the draft and struggled between being the 2nd and 3rd string point guard. I think the Blazers got a fair deal for him and I’m not sure I wanted anything back for the value Frye got from the Suns.
Even with Travis, some folks don’t want him getting playing time over Webster, Batum and Rudy and they are reluctant to give him 10 minutes a night behind LA. If his value is really that low, he can walk and the Blazers can sign some guy for the MLE.
put Sergio and Frye together at the last trading deadline
with RLEC and you might’ve received something “better” than just moving up a few spots in the June draft
(but we’ll never know)
Outlaw is worth more than those two, if KP knows that he isn’t going to resign Travis then he owes it to Paul Allen, Nate and the fans to get a fair return for all of the developmental time the team has invested in #25 over the last 6+ years
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
How do you know?
That is idle speculation. None of us know exactly what offers were out there. You SUPPOSE that Portland could have gotten something. What if that something would have been Andre Miller (which apparently was a possibility according to some stories)?
And why is it fans seem to think they are smarter and more knowledgeable than real live GM’s? Your claim that Pritchard could have gotten something better implies both. You obvioulsy must think you are smarter than KP, because YOU would have gotten a deal made. And you also must be smarter than the other GM’s out there, as you would have been able to get one of them to forget the simple fact that Channing Frye for sure would be available come summer time and that Sergio might be. Oh, that’s right. I forgot about the magic of the RLEC. Being a financial expert, you were all over the fact that almost every team was gnawing their arm off trying to get Raef’s contract so they could shed salary dollars.
hakkaa päälle !
not just me
there were multiple sources that were reporting the RLEC was an extremely valuable prize at last February’s trading deadline, especially because of the insurance clause
Am I smarter than KP? No, never said it, never will. How you project your feeling on my comments, I have no control over
Is KP above second-guessing? Nope, no GM or coach is, regardless of his track record. (If it makes you uncomfortable to discuss possible scenarios where the Blazer’s front office “may” have messed up, you can block my comments, it won’t hurt my feelings.) But from Stu Inman to Bucky Buckwalter to Geoff Petrie to Bob Whitsitt, Blazer GMs have messed up, and fans have discussed these “rumors” for decades. I’m just doing it on a public forum, instead of at the water cooler.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Here is were we differ on this subject.
For me the fact that multiple sources reported that RLEC was extremely valuable means next to nothing. I understand that all of these sources are paid to talk or write about something. They can come up with all of the arguments they want to support what they are writing or talking about. The more so, the better, because that’s their job. I also know that many of these sources usually end up talking about the same thing to the point it builds its own momentum and becomes “common knowledge”. But talking about something a lot does not make it any more or less true. Ultimately what matters is what actually occurs. In this instance, nothing occured. While that is not absolute proof that RLEC had less value than the sources and experts claimed prior to the trade deadline, it is a very good indicator of that.
I have found that one of the better cliche’s to follow is the one that says Believe only half of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
hakkaa päälle !
It is so frustrating to see this comment over and over again.
The idea that players are commodities that can be traded like properties in a Monopoly game is exactly the sort of junior GM thinking that plagues us from the fantasy league crowd.
Travis Outlaw, the basketball pllayer, is an asset to the Portland Trailblazers. He is under contract and performs at a level that is good value in relation to what he is paid. He fits in with the team as currently constructed. Whether he has any value to someone else is questionable. And if he did, who’s to say that whomever does value him has anything of value that Portland would want in return?
It is as if you were going camping and you have three nice usable fleece jackets, all of which you like. But you only have room for one in your pack. You could go around to your neighbors to see if they would trade you their new pair of hiking boots for one (or both) of your fleeces. Think you’d find any takers? They may be unwilling to trade you their camp stool, even though they have two, because they either already have a fleece jacket or they know that you are likely to put one of yours in a bag and donate it Goodwill.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Sep 9, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
RT: He fits in with the team as currently constructed.
up to this point in time, that’s been true. But with the emergence of Batum and the return of Webster, Travis will get his minutes squeezed. Then it will be up to Outlaw and his agent how much of a reduced role he’s willing to accept, and for how long (remember, it’s his contract year)
And don’t forget, KP made a serious run at Hedo and Millsap in July. That doesn’t say “Outlaw still fits” to me
Players are assets. Fans don’t like to see ‘em like that, but it’s been true from the front office’s viewpoint for as long as there’s been pro sports. The only thing that’s changed is that back in the ’70s the players got to make choices about which team they wanted to play for. Before that, they really were chattel
There are all kinds of books you can read on this subject, but I doubt you’re interested
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
What if your fleece jacket is likely to grow wings and fly away if you and only you continue to own it?
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Then I'd put it on E-bay and sell to the highest bidder.
Ought to get a pretty good price for a winged jacket that flies.
hakkaa päälle !
I suppose an electrifying PG performance at summer league would have raised expectations again,
but given the level of the competition I would hate to think it would convince anyone “that matters”. i.e. No matter what happened I don’t think it would have convinced KP/Nate to pass on Miller, or to trade Blake this summer. I think Bayless’s real opportunity to “prove himself” was always going to be preseason, where he will get the chance to play with his teammates and against real NBA teams. I doubt that will earn him any rotation time this year, but it could determine how willing or reluctant we would be to include him in a deal this year.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 9, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I could see a mid-season trade for a back up PF.
Martell #2. Boy you guys are high on potential unrealized. I hope Martell gets that good, but he’s had several quasi dissappointing seasons prior to the injury. I bet Nic is going to be the starter, and be far more productive than Martell. With Nic you can see him expand almost overnight. Nic is who several other GM’s really wanted in a trade…Not Martell. Now, after the Euroleague…Nic’s value is sky high.
RT: Nic is who several other GM’s really wanted in a trade…Not Martell
Well, at the risk of stating the obvious…Webster has had “negative” trade value for the past 11+ months, ever since his foot fracture. I expect Martell to become a “desirable commodity” as he plays NBA ball again, during the fall. His contract is OK for a bench player and would be a bargain if he can regain his starting role, in Portland or elsewhere
Sure, I like Batum’s upside better, but they are both good young SFs, with different skillsets
But if Dante Cunnngham’s a “comer” like Barrett reported on Talkin’ Ball, Webster may not be “long” for Portland. The Inferno may slice out a role and PT in the Blazer’s rotation that will make Martell “obsolete” sometime in the next 12-18 months
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I use it kind of like a re-tweet
but to me, it means “responding to”
It just allows me to pull a specific line out of a previous response and reply back to it, directly.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You should just put it in a block quote
rather than use RT, because lots of people don’t know what you mean by it, and you’ll have to continually explain. And a lot of people won’t ask.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
hmm...but then what would the repsonse title be?
I’ll have to think about that format
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
And here I thought it meant Right Testicle.
As in, I’ll bet my right testicle that I a have … uh, wait a minute. That might be an appropriate turn of phrase in your case.
hakkaa päälle !
I doubt there will be a trade.
KP values culture. He thinks mid-season trades puts culture at risk. History shows us that KP doesn’t do mid-season trades. He does trades during the draft.
If the media asks him about a mid-season trade, he’ll say he of course he is always looking to improve the team, but he wants to see the whole team together for a season first. Since there have been injuries (Oden and Martell) and the addition of Miller, he has not been able to see it yet.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
All of these points have been made, before
And my take at the trading deadline was that KP dropped the ball. He had the opportunity (RLEC) to upgrade the PG and PF positions in preperation for the playoffs and chose to stand pat, and the Rocket’s exposed his roster’s weaknesses in round 1
My response at the time was “if KP wants to become a ‘full service’ GM he’s going to have to be willing to make mid-season adjustments” to harden his roster if it becomes clear the team needs a ‘final piece’ to advance in the post season
“Letting the cake bake” only works for so long. For example, the coaching staff doesn’t need more evaluation time re: Travis Outlaw, the organization has had 6 years to do their homework, and the “final exam” was that playoff series aganst Houston. It’s a shame that Webster got hurt and the staff didn’t have a full season to check him out alongside Oden, etc but if KP uses that reason to “not” make a midseason deal and the team gets knocked out in the first round again next April, am I supposed to feel good about KP’s patience with the “culture” 9 months from now?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
it has everything to do with the SF battle, and Outlaw's contract
First, great to hear Martell is looking good. You hate to see young and talented guys get hurt, so I’m glad he’s back and doing well. He could end up playing a huge role for us with his ability to stretch the floor.
One thing you don’t do in the NBA is let assets walk for nothing. And that’s what they are facing with Outlaw. They aren’t going to pay him what HE expects to be paid, as we already have Batum and Webster on the roster. So we either have to overpay for him, or let him walk? KP won’t let that happen. They’re going to see where Martell is, if he comes back and is palying like he was last preseason, it makes Travis that much more expendable, especially considering that Batum is what? 21? and will still develop a ton (in addition to the growth he’s already had this summer – if you’ve been watching the Eurobasket highlights)
I think we are willing to trade Bayless, but 1-for-1 we can’t get anything for him that can really help us right now. But if we throw in Travis or one of the other SFs, then we have a deal that could net us a player that could contribute to our upcoming run at a title over the next 4-5 years.
This “prediction” is just Quick making news in a news-less time before the season starts. It’s all going to come down to money, and with that in mind we’re going to habve to move players at some point or let them walk for nothing
by rip_city_swagger on Sep 9, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions
Rec'd!
Personally, I find it tough to predict with any certainty what will happen in February. It’s very possible that the Blazers (who should have a little cap room to make a lopsided trade) might evaluate their situation and make a consolidation trade along the lines that Quick predicts. He’s not completely off base with that prediction. However, so much can happen between now and then. What if this year Batum breaks his foot? Or Blake hurts his back? Or any of a number of unpleasant things happen to one of the rotational players? Where’s the need now for a consolidation trade? Right, it’s gone. So better to see what happens in camp and through the first couple of months of the season before trying to predict what will happen around the time of the trade deadline (and yes, John, there is a trade deadline).
KP has depth at every position except PF
unless you count Outlaw, Cunningham and possibly Howard/Swift as quality reserve PFs
Injuries can always happen, and it’s futile trying to predict when and to whom they will occur. KP should wait and see how Webster and Batum perform in camp, but if those two and Rudy are healthy and able to play 25+ mpg then it does Travis no good to be relegated to mostly backing up LMA. The longer KP lets that hypothetical situation linger, the less he will probably get for Travis in a trade
Unless another team suffers an injury at SF, needs Outlaw “asap” and is willing to “overpay” for him. There’s no exact science re: finding the right moment to “sell high” on a “consolidation” deal. Sometimes if you wait “too long” the best potential deal falls through, but sometimes you’re glad you waited because one of your other players gets hurt. There are no guarantees, either way
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If KP doesn't have a PF/C trade for Outlaw waiting in the wings,
and signs Howard or Swift, it’s going to take a $825K chunk out of our expected $2.7M cap space (assuming we renounce Randolph). KP even said something about signing two more players to fill the roster with 15 players. If he signed both Howard and Swift, we would be down to about $1.1M in cap space.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 9, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I took that 'two players' comment
to mean Pendergraph and one other player. But that’s just how I took it….
So when Portland trades Blake to Miami for a draft pick, the Blazers will have nearly $6 million in cap space. It’s a done deal, right? Isn’t that what the Miami press is reporting????
;)
Didn't Quick report that KP had decided to sign 15 players?
I thought I heard that Tuesday when Quick was on Wheels and BFT. Maybe I dreamed it ??
The 15th player could be Mills if they wanted to hang onto his rights and he can’t play anywhere this year. If they traded Bayless later in the year they might want to get a look at Mills when he is healthy.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 10, 2009 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions
yes, you remembered right
and if #14,15 are Howard and Swift I won’t be satisfied with the big man depth.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Monty Williams was talking about Howard and Swift, earlier today
On Juwan: “he’s a pro, you can’t have enough pros on your team, but at the same time you want guys that can play, and he can play. Everywhere he’s gone he’s been able to help his team win games, so he’s another voice in the locker room we could use. He’s been there, done that”
On Swift: “Stromile, I watched him play a little bit today . He’s athletic, he can still block shots or distract shots. He’s bounced around a bit of late, but he’s a big body. He’s a long 6’11 or 7 foot guy that can do a lot of stuff. But at the same time LMA is still gonna play 38-40 minutes a game, so we don’t need somebody to play 15-20 mpg. But at the same time, you always want somebody there ’cause you never know when an injury is gonna take place.”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
There is one guarantee.
That no matter what happens, someone will be there second guessing, saying that the team screwed up.
hakkaa päälle !
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