What Andre Miller team is better?
by blazerbeliever97504 on Sep 30, 2009 7:13 PM PDT
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PrintDisclaimer: this should totally be a fan shot.....apologies.
After reading some articles on this site and oregonlive i got to thinking......which Miller team would be better? Please, go with me here......totally hypothetical.....Take the team he ran with today: Miller, Fernandez, Webster, Outlaw, Oden....or....Last years Philly team: (listed by most starts that year) Miller, Green, Iggy, Young, Dalembert.
Which team do you think Andre would pick, which team would you guys pick? Me, i would go with the team that has the dominant big guy, two three point bombers, and an undersized pf. Thats just my bias im sure.
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Yeah, Andre Iguodala and Thaddeus Young give Philadelphia the edge here.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
+1
poll reflects that most people did not read the question in it’s entirety, though it would be kinda close. there ARE NBA teams out there that i think our “2nd unit” is better than.
Minnesota, Memphis, and Sacramento
all come to mind.
Iggy and Dalembert
vs. Webster and Oden?
Hmm. That isn’t a slam dunk. Or, well, it might be a slam dunk often enough to even things out pretty well.
I don’t think we can answer this question until we see whether Oden has progressed as much as we’re hearing, and whether Rudy has taken a significant step forward. For now, I’ll give the Philly team an edge, but not a lot of one.
As author of Da BOM (Blazer Optimist Manifesto), I hereby certify that we will win 62 games in the regular season. Disagree at your peril.
Why do people continue to underrate Andre Iguodala?
Iguodala is the best all-around perimeter defender in the NBA today, bar none. Furthermore, Iguodala is the closest thing to a modern-day Scottie Pippen — while Nicolas Batum is more a younger version of Tayshaun Prince — so that should allow y’all glean a bit of perspective here. Heck, in a one-on-one matchup, Iguodala would flat-out squash Martell Webster on both sides of the ball. It’d be a massacre — or a bloodbath, so to speak — and that’s that!
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
But Dalembert is bad
and Oden may be one of the best interior defenders in the NBA.
It’s a question about Oden, really, as I’ve said below.
As author of Da BOM (Blazer Optimist Manifesto), I hereby certify that we will win 62 games in the regular season. Disagree at your peril.
I have to give the edge to Blake/Roy/Batum/Aldridge/Przybilla
but its a worthy question.
If Oden’s in better condition than last year, the “2nd unit” has two guys who are significantly better than their opposite number on the “first unit.”
Rudy having to guard Roy and Outlaw having to guard LaMarcus convinces me to go with the “first unit,” but the question is worth asking.
Roy and Aldridge are killers
Bayless/Roy/Cunningham/Aldrige/Pendergraph (after he heals)
Miller/Rudy/Batum/Outlaw/Oden
You might still have to give the edge to team 1.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Voted Blazers
but I too fell victim to not reading the full question. Our second unit is one of the best in the league, but its tough for even the best bench to beat a starting 5.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
One of the best?
If that ends up being the 2nd unit, the Blazers will have by far the best bench in the NBA.
It is better then a lot of starting units as well. Just compare it to the Blazer team from 2 years ago: Miller>Blake, Oden>Przybilla, 09-10 Webster>07-08Webster. Roy & Aldridge > Fernandez & Outlaw, but since we are only talking about 2nd year Roy and LMA rather than current the difference shouldn’t be that great. Overall, the current 2nd unit should be about as good as the starting unit from 2 years ago that won 41 games. The current bench would also completely obliterate the starters from 4 years ago.
Right now?
Philly’s starters for sure. Igg. & Thad. are good stuff and not unpolished like our good stuff.
In a couple of years? Our guys easy. Oden? Fernandez? That is a real showtime style team.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
go thaddeus!
gtech represent
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
Young isn't really better than Travis at the moment, but in the future well could be
Though this year if anything can put Philly over the top in the East, it’s improved outside shooting with Kapono (big weakness last year) and Elton Brand returning to form so the $65 million they still owe him aren’t completely wasted.
Fun thought experiment though. The Blazers team is deep, no doubt about that.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
I don't think its a crazy question.
Miller vs. Miller (slight edge Philly, since he was a year younger last year)
Green vs. Fernandez (edge Portland)
Igoudala vs. Webster (big edge Philly)
Young vs. Outlaw (slight edge Philly)
Dalembert vs. Oden (edge Portland)
You have to give the edge the Philly team, certainly, but if Oden comes back as a monster, that could change things. Its not a crazy question, though the voting does reflect the typical homerism that BE is known for.
Wasn't Lou the shooting guard most of the time? Or is he a sixth man that now has to switch positions and start?
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
Green made 61 starts, Williams 0.
According to basketball-reference, Williams has never started an NBA game.
Iguodala is 1,000 times better than Webster. That should end the debate right there. In my opinion, the Sixers have the two best players of the 10 (Andre and Thaddeus). And the Sam/Oden match-up is a lot closer than people think. Oden is the bigger name, younger and has more potential, but from what I’ve seen A) He hasn’t stayed healthy B) Has major foul trouble. I’d still give the edge to Oden, but barely.
Bottom line is: Those two teams play 82 games and the Sixers win 50+.
If Iggy is 1000 times better than Webster
isn’t Fernandez at least 800 times better than Green? Or, wait. Green probably has negative value, so Fernandez is like -800 times better, right? :)
This is really a question about Oden, and nobody knows until we actually see whether the reports out of the USA camp this year were sound. If he is back to the player that romped all over Horford, Noah, and Brewer, then that neutralizes some of that Iggy/Webster advantage. If not, then this whole idea is a joke.
As a Blazer fan, of course, I believe the reports. That’s what fanatics do.
As author of Da BOM (Blazer Optimist Manifesto), I hereby certify that we will win 62 games in the regular season. Disagree at your peril.
I respect that.
Just a reminder, the Sixers did beat the Blazers not once, but twice last year, and that was with their starters.
But, we shall see. We’re both biased. Let’s just leave it at that.
the thing is that this supposed Blazer "2nd unit"...
… has two players who will likely be starters at some point (Miller/Oden) and a 3rd who has a shot to become a starter (Webster). So, this isn’t quite saying “OMG our bench is better than a playoff team’s starters.”
Yeah
but we just stole your starting PG. Nyah, nyah, nyah. (This is also what fanatics do.)
If I don’t think Oden is going to make a real run at being an all-star this year, I would think this is really a silly question. And I certainly am not convinced he’ll do that. There’s a chance, but no evidence yet.
So on any evidence we’ve seen, this is a silly question. But it’s preseason, and it’s been forever since we’ve had any real games, so what else are we going to talk about? We’ve analyzed the schedule to death, spent 15 days arguing whether our 15th man should be a center who never could play or a rookie PG with a broken foot, argued whether or not a Finnish PG who can’t get time in the Italian league is our future all-star at PG, broken down projected PT TO THE SECOND for every player in our rotation, and analyzed every facial expression of Jerryd Bayless for the last three months.
So why shouldn’t we ask stupid questions about whether our bench is better than someone else’s starters? What else do you want us to do?
Hope you guys have a fun season.
As author of Da BOM (Blazer Optimist Manifesto), I hereby certify that we will win 62 games in the regular season. Disagree at your peril.
I never said you shouldn't.
I do the same. I just disagreed completely with the results of the poll.
I agree with your bottom line-- the Sixers win in the 50s if they play 82 times.
I would note that Oden was statistically quite a bit better than Young per minute, and both Fernandez and Outlaw were statistically just as good as Young.
People have gotten out of control around here
Iggy Miller and Thad young (even with Dalambert and Green) are a much better team than the core of Miller, Oden and Outlaw (or Rudy or Webster).
People seriously need to take the homer goggles off, this is worse than Raptors fans.
by nikolokolus on Oct 1, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Young was less efficient in his sophomore year than in his rookie season. He is highly talented, but at this point he is not out of Outlaw's world. Both had a PER close to 15 = average.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
I can't just blame the homers in Portland for the lack of respect that Andre Iguodala gets from ...
folks nationwide, but you’d believe after the thrashing the Trail Blazers took at the hands of the 76ers last season that people here would realize his rise to prominence.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200901140PHI.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200903230POR.html
Iguodala undeniably owned Brandon Roy in that second matchup, too. It was a devastating beatdown, pure and simple.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
You know, there is an objective way to measure this
Compare the projected statistical +/- of this Blazer 2nd unit with the actual statistical +/- of the starters on the Philadelphia team from last year.
Blazers:
Miller +1.75
Rudy +2.69
Webster-0.88
Outlaw -0.54
Oden +1.55
Total +4.57
76ers:
Miller +2.72
Iguodala +4.24
Green -3.24
Young -1.27
Dalembert-3.39
Total -0.94
The 76ers have some good players in Miller and Iguodala, but the are dragged down by Green and Dalembert. Replace Green and Dalembert with Williams (1.05) and Ratliff (0.71) and the Philidelphia team improves to +7.45.
Why does our miller have a different +/- than the miller on the Philly team?
Shouldn’t they feasibly be the same for comparison sake?
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
It is projected based on production the past few years and age
Since Miller is older than 28 (the average age for when NBA players are most productive), it is projected that he won’t be as good as he was in the past.
by trk on Oct 1, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Webster's projected +/-
seems to be off as well because he didn’t play much last year. I would anticipate a plus for Webster.
Then, of course, we could add the projected for the 76ers for this year and compare. Are their numbers higher for this year except for Miller?
This year
76ers projected +/-
Andre Iguodala 5.00
Thaddeus Young -0.49
Samuel Dalembert -2.18
Louis Williams 0.95
Willie Green -3.22
Jason Kapono -4.45
Marreese Speights -0.66
Royal Ivey -2.52
Jrue Holliday -1.56
Elton Brand -0.74
Jason Smith -2.09
Primoz Brezec -4.18
by trk on Oct 2, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
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