Five Questions with Mark Warkentien [UPDATED]
by Dave on Sep 24, 2009 11:34 PM PDT
151 comments
Update: In response to the continuing questions regarding his relationship with current Blazers management, evidenced in the comment section and referenced before on this site, Mr. Warkentien had this to say:
While I don't have a decade of history working with them like I do Paul Allen, I truly like the guys (KP and Tom Penn) that currently run the Blazers. They are doing a tremendous job and I respectfully decline to comment on anything about them; I hope they go 78-4 while the Nuggies finish 82-0
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This week we were privileged to spend a little time conversing with the Vice President of Basketball Operations for the Denver Nuggets (and last year's NBA Executive of the Year) Mark Warkentien. As most remember, Mr. Warkentien was a member of the Trail Blazers organization for a decade, rising from the scouting ranks to Assistant General Manager to Director of Player Personnel in 2003-04. Here are his reflections on the Nuggets, the power of Chauncey Billups, the splendor of the Western Conference, and his time in Portland.
Blazersedge: Last year the Nuggets posted 54 wins, their best finish in the franchise's NBA history, won the division, and gave the Lakers a tough go in the Conference Finals, also a franchise milestone. Can you top that? What are the goals for this year? Is it rings or bust?
Mark Warkentien: Four years ago we won 44-games, three years ago we won 45-games and 50-games two years ago. Last year we won 54-games and advanced to the Western Conference Finals; we'd like to continue the northern trend. That said, the championship is ALWAYS the goal.
Blazersedge: One of the things Portland fans have talked about for the last couple of years is the effect the right veteran can have. Give us an idea what Chauncey Billups has meant to the Nuggets and specifically how he improved the team.
Mark Warkentien: Chauncey put everything in balance for us...The Nuggets had two outstanding shooting guards - Iverson and JR Smith - and zero big-time point guards; by swapping Iverson for Chauncey we now have one of each. Anthony Carter became our back-up PG; where he is an excellent off-the-bench player...The biggest winner from the trade might have been Melo. Suddenly, he had room to operate from his mid-post area because Smith and Billups, who are deadly shooters, loom on the outside and can punish double-teams. He also had the ball there a lot more and a lot earlier in the clock, because of Chauncey's outstanding distribution skills...We believed that we needed another sniper in the backcourt to make Coach Karl's system work. In fact, that's one reason we inked Chucky Atkins in July-2007. In Billups, we found our sniper...It also helped with the fans. Chauncey is a high-character guy with local roots and his presence created good karma with the locals; the Pepsi Center is not an easy place to play...I had the privilege of working with George Karl, The Glove and Nate-Mac in Seattle and as a group we suspected that pairing a terrific coach like GK with a great PG like Chauncey was a tree that would bear much fruit.
Blazersedge: A couple of teams in the Western Conference appear to have been hurt by injuries and trades. A couple more have made significant acquisitions to try and get better. Break down the West for us a bit. Besides the Lakers who do you see making waves?
Mark Warkentien: For the past decade the best basketball conference on the planet has been the NBA's Western; not Euroleague, the ACB or any other venue. As usual, it will be an absolute slugfest; 9-10 good teams going for eight playoffs spots. The players are great, the coaches are great and the fans rabid; fasten your seat belt and lace up your Chuck Taylors REAL tight. It will be wild once again.
Blazersedge: You worked in the Trail Blazers organization for ten years. Any reflections on your time in Portland?
Mark Warkentien: This guy is the absolute best; he was terrific to me and my family for a decade...People in Portland do not understand just how good of an owner he is and - in my opinion - is underappreciated in the Rose City. His commitment to the success of the franchise is a matter of record and he has an excellent basketball mind; this guy knows the game. He asks great questions and challenges all to be better...Success in any organization starts at the very top and it is not an accident that the Blazers have an excellent roster and are positioned for substantial future successes.
Blazersedge: You also worked with Bob Whitsitt, a name which is often vilified around these parts...
Mark Warkentien: Let me be crystal clear that I absolutely enjoyed working with Bob Whitsitt...I worked for 12-seasons with Bob Whitsitt in SEA and POR; we went 591-361 during that span; won 62% of our games (approximately 51-games per year) and made the NBA Playoffs all 12-seasons...Those that are critical of Bob should try to post like digits, prior to pontificating. The facts and figures follow:
1991-1992 SEA 047-035 .573 Playoffs-SECOND ROUND
1992-1993 SEA 055-027 .670 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
1993-1994 SEA 063-019 .768 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1994-1995 POR 044-038 .536 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1995-1996 POR 044-038 .536 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1996-1997 POR 049-033 .597 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1997-1998 POR 046-036 .560 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1998-1999 POR 035-015 .700 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
1999-2000 POR 059-023 .719 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
2000-2001 POR 050-032 .609 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
2001-2002 POR 049-033 .597 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
2002-2003 POR 050-032 .609 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
TOTAL 591-361 .620
During our time together he tackled some of the most complicated deals imaginable; including negotiating and managing more than $1 billion in player contracts with the Blazers/Seahawks and securing funding for the $450 million Seahawks football stadium and exhibition center. Bob is a guy that understands how to cut through the complexity of any business situation to get to the essential components that can mean the difference between success and failure. He was a dogged competitor who outworked and outmaneuvered opponents, often by taking bolder risks.
I love the guy.
Thanks to Mr. Warkentien for joining us. The West will be quite a battle this year. I'm sure most agree that a Nuggets-Blazers matchup in the playoffs would be epic.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Thanks to Mr. Warkentien
He’s done a heck of a job in Denver and fully deserved his award last year.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 12:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
“prior to pontificating”…. sweet, finally found a name for my rap group
by Ben. on Sep 25, 2009 12:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Mr. Warkentien for the time!
Always cool to see stuff like this on Bedge
by prezofdeath on Sep 25, 2009 12:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mark Warkentien is right to commend Bob Whitsitt, who's oftentimes unfairly criticized by many people.
Whitsitt, unlike a buffoon who skated along via nepotism such as Steve Patterson, was a self-made winner, which is of the utmost importance. Except for signing that scumbag Ruben Patterson in 2001 shortly after he pled no contest to sexual assault, Whitsitt didn’t make any unethical transactions. Y’know, I’d take an amoral winner like Whitsitt or Warkentien over some virtuous, clean-cut loser like Wally Walker or Rick Sund. I’m also not fond of the high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou attitude held by some folks who put an overstated intangible like culture on a pedestal, which is why Sam Presti and Kevin Pritchard have never struck a cord with me.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 1:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I put Pritchard right there with the likes of Warkentien in the 2nd tier of NBA GMs
The first tier is comprised solely of RC Buford. I personally think the 2nd best GM right now is Daryl Morey, but I put him in towards the top of that 2nd tier— he’s not done enough to be in Buford’s league yet.
I do agree that Whitsitt gets vilified way to much. He built a team that was minutes away from being heavy favorites in the NBA finals. I don’t blame that choke job on him.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, R.C. Buford resides unmistakably alone at the top.
Indeed, the apex is a genuinely beautiful, wondrous place.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
still, Buford gave Scola away for nothing
nobody is perfect.
by Falcao on Sep 25, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
That may have been Buford’s most puzzling move.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the San Antonio Spurs dumped Jackie Butler's contract on the Houston Rockets.
The Spurs, in turn, received disgruntled Greek Vassilis Spanoulis, who then negotiated a buyout and headed back to Europe.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always liked Whitsitt
I think he put up the numbers and always had a winning team. My only criticism of him would be that I think he helped shepherd in a culture of expecting unrealistic trades by the fans.
by tominhawaii on Sep 25, 2009 1:39 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Did he refuse to answer a question how he sees the current Trail Blazers organization? His perception of Pritchard as a GM?
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 2:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Most GM's
are not going to go there. They have to talk to those guys a lot more than they have to talk to any of us.
—Dave
by Dave on Sep 25, 2009 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could have said something neutral
“I like what they are doing with the players they are bringing in”. “He is one of the rising young GMs.” I would still have been interesting to hear it. He also talked about other active people in an article for Sports Illustrated about his negotiation skills, and defended and gave credit to Whitsitt, too.,
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've answered your own question
The only answers he could have possibly given would be the predictable ones. You could give them for him. Granted, some of the answers he gave to the questions that are on record were also predictable and didn’t answer a ton. But some of his other ones were more in-depth and informative.
This isn’t an exact science. Nor am I in the habit of disclosing the preferences of people I interview or saying more about them than they have consented to on the record and it’s nearly impossible for me to answer these kind of queries without doing so. Suffice it to say that sometimes people have more interest or feel more comfortable talking about certain topics than others and that tends to be more true the higher placed the person is, as they have more at risk and their words will be spread wider and have more effect. I have found through experience that it’s seldom productive to go against that grain unless there’s a clear, definable reason to (a scandal that must be addressed or something). You either get pablum answers or silence.
I’m not saying this is or isn’t the case with Mr. Warkentien. Maybe there were more questions to be asked that weren’t. Maybe there were more questions asked and these were the ones he was willing to answer. I am saying that very few people hobnob with high-level NBA execs—or any NBA official really—on the record about every question they’d like. And those that do tend to be so deep in said executive’s pocket that they inhale lint with every second breath. Clearly that’s not the case with us. So we do what we can. If Sports Illustrated gets more info that’s probably because they have a 52-year head start on their relationship with these people and the prestige of their name. We’ll get there too.
—Dave
by Dave on Sep 25, 2009 3:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not criticizing the interview, it's great that you got access at all. Just asking out of interest and as you say it's rare to have a peer's perspective on the Blazers, and he is talking more about history than the present.
If someone is interested, here is the article with SI. Ben also linked to it in one of his FullCourt press reviews back then. As said it contains some more statements regarding Allen, Whitsitt, and how he handles his coach and players. Much of the course material on the mentioned negotiations course which was the hook for the story is available in a much cheaper book or even for free. It’s not a secret, and even beneficial if both parties follow the methodology ;)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/07/10/weekly.countdown/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_YES
http://www.pon.harvard.edu/free-reports/
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an excellent article on Mark Warkentien by Ian Thomsen.
The thing I like about Warkentien is that he seems like a honest, forthcoming person in the interview. Warkentien, moreover, understands that being a front office executive in the field of professional sports is a fluid, ever-changing occupation, which may not be the case with a certain someone in Portland. Heck, as Ben pointed out yesterday, complacency could be a crippling hitch in the giddyap of Kevin Pritchard, who’s speciously deified similarly to how Bob Whitsitt is wrongly vilified by many folks around here.
I, too, like how Warkentien put a big emphasis on being a well-rounded negotiator, treating coaches and players as equal to himself, and noting that everyone needs to get along as “business partners” more so than friends.
The “business partners” line gives credence to my point that on-court chemistry matters — which is the actual reason why a high-usage, undersized gunner such Allen Iverson failed on an offensively quick, defensively aggressive team in Denver under George Karl, but thrived on an offensively methodical, defensively hard-nosed team in Philadelphia under Larry Brown — conversely, off-court chemistry and personal character are two insignifcant qualities that numerous folks trump up in a self-righteous, sanctimonious manner.
Also, the following quote by Warkentien is something that everyone must take into account when analyzing Whitsitt.
“Then you look at Bob [Whitsitt], who had a totally different situation in Seattle with Barry Ackerley than in Portland with Paul [Allen]. You were on tight dollars in Seattle and he took a bunch of character guys, and he was executive of the year doing that.”
Whitsitt was a versatile front office executive who played the hands dealt to him, so anyone claiming that he succeeded in the NBA solely ‘cause of Paul Allen’s bloated bank account is a liar. The man adapted to different situations like a chameleon, so more power to him.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Whitsitt apologists (and clones like Wark) everywhere
Fact: Whitsitt’s GM-ing ultimately resulted in poor play, and a revolting (revolted) fanbase. This should be included each time Whitsitt’s resume is discussed.
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
What's with all of this unwarranted disdain toward Bob Whitsitt and immature ...
sense of entitlement toward everything? Heck, you whiners could’ve been Golden State Warrior fans during the time in which Bob Whitsitt built a winner in Portland — as the Bay Area ballclub didn’t make the playoffs from 1995 to 2007 while under the failed leadership of guys like Dave Twardzik, Garry St. Jean, and Chris Mullin led by Chris Cohan’s horrid ownership — so y’all ceaselessly complaining about some players having less than stellar character comes off to me as petulant tripe.
Except for Ruben Patterson, not one guy on those Bob Whitsitt headed Trail Blazer teams deserves such malevolence from a group overbearingly haughty blowhards. Rather than spit venom, y’all should be thankful to have been given the opportunity to root for a true championship contender last decade.
Sure, a guy like Rasheed Wallace might not have been the nicest guy in the world; he was a winner, though, which is what counts more than anything in professional sports.
Y’know, y’all could’ve been stuck with legitimate incompetence like folks up in the Emerald City were after Whitsitt parted ways with the Seattle SuperSonics in 1994.
If Paul Allen had Wally Walker running the organization like a chicken with its head cut off during the mid-‘90s through mid-’00s, the Seattle SuperSonics may have instead been the one team left standing in the Pacific Northwest.
I’d’ve been perfectly fine with that outcome, too.
Frankly, Portland fanatics should put things into perspective and quit being biased, partisan haters toward guys like Whitsitt and Mark Warkentien, as well as knock off the slobbering all over themselves bit when it comes to Kevin Pritchard.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we've been spoiled, frankly
from Stu Inman to Bucky B to Geoff Petrie, Blazer fans have had solid GMs who valued character and players who “represented the organization” well in the NW community. Whitsitt admitted he wasn’t a chemistry major and the players he “brought in” rubbed the fans the wrong way (even though most of us cheered for their on-court success, at the time)
But the Jail-Blazers nickname has stung (it’s still fairly prevalent, around the country) and (fair, or not) it’s representative of the Whitsitt era, which we fans are trying to forget.
KP is a GM in the Inman-Bucky-Petrie mold and (while not perfect) at least he’s assembling a roster than we can all be proud of again, both on and off the court
The ends doesn’t always justify the means, Trader Bob taught us that lesson, very well
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
REC
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wreck
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
by lukeyhere on Sep 25, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry man,
if the blazers were your team, you wouldn’t say that.
Dog fighting doesn’t bother you?
reckless driving while under the influence doesn’t bother you?
A bunch of other stuff I’m not gonna’ say ‘cause I’ll come off sounding like Canzano doesn’t bother you?
by Montavilla Steve on Sep 25, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember where he said it
But I know AK said he hated the dog fighting and the babysitter raping.
by tominhawaii on Sep 26, 2009 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I feel that Ruben Patterson and Qyntel Woods are scumbags.
Yet, Rasheed Wallace and Damon Stoudamire driving a motor vehicle while stoned doesn’t upset me whatsoever. I also have no problem with Zach Randolph punching Patterson in the face.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 26, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheed and Damon weren't driving
they were in the back seat of the yellow Hummer. I don’t remember who their driver was, or if he had been “inhaling”
but someone else said it the best. Whitsitt brought in malcontent players and ruined the Blazer’s brand. It took the loss of revenue (advertising and season ticket sales) to finally get Paul Allen’s (or more likely the Vulcan’s) attention before changes were finally made.
I suppose George Steinbrenner seemed like a great owner when the Yankees were winning, and l recall when Al Davis was “committed to excellence” back in the ‘80s. There are lots of ways to skin a cat, but Trader Bob had his “run” in Portland and no one down here is going to remember him with fondness. Not because he couldn’t acquire talent, but because he thought that the ends would always justify the means. Ultimately, his “just win, baby” philosophy wasn’t getting results on the court or for PA’s bottom line. And when the paying public’s hostility turns into apathy towards the franchise, it’s time to punt the front office and start over
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 26, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't you the one always harping about roster balance?
Whitsitt overloaded the Blazers with players who were starters or plenty good enough to be starters, helping to create the playing-time friction that was one of the big problems on that team. Our current team is becoming equally overloaded, but at least all the players are good-character guys and most of them are young and realize they haven’t earned anything yet, and we may still see some playing-time issues this season. With the bad-character, big-ego Jail Blazers, it was a major issue.
As for chemistry, you criticize Blazer fans who justifiably were embarrassed by the drug, dog, on-court incidents, fan abuse, arrests, and so on that the Whitsitt Blazers became famous for without acknowledging that the chemistry on that team was horrible. The best player was the poster boy for technical fouls, towel-throwing, and coming up small in big games. The gangsta Blazers were so cavalier after even bad losses that Scottie Pippen got angry enough to call them out about it. The players had talent, but they lacked the right mix of talents and attitudes to complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses.
There’s no question that management deserves much of the blame for the failures of the Jail Blazers, and Whitsitt was the cornerstone of that building. His philosophy seemed to be SPAM, pure and simple. How else do you explain the decision to throw tens of millions of dollars on an overweight cokehead like Shawn Kemp?
Whitsitt simply got the best available players money could buy, with little regard for how they would fit together, how many minutes they would play, and what kind of people they were. If his atrocious performance as a GM doesn’t deserve vilification, what does?
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"If his atrocious performance as a GM doesn’t deserve vilification, what does?"
Bob Whitsitt had his flaws, which have been pounded into the ground by Portland homers for years now. That aside, Whitsitt was far from being an “atrocious” front office executive. Wally Walker, on the other hand, fit that bill, since he was a doltish imbecile.Y’know, Portland had its own truly abysmal front office executive for a few years in Steve Patterson.
Whitsitt was a winner, no matter how you slice it. Regardless of what anyone thinks of his methods in Seattle or Portland when it came to placing little value to off-court intangibles or overloading on high-priced talent to the detriment of structured team-oriented play on the court, he got the job done.
Success can be cultivated in numerous ways, which Whitsitt and the individual who studied under him, Mark Warkentien, have learned over time. While you may loathe the style, you can’t deny the results.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rebuttal
Bob Whitsitt had his flaws, which have been pounded into the ground by Portland homers for years now.
and us ’homers" had craptastic play “for years” to hammer the point home to us as well.
Whitsitt was a winner, no matter how you slice it.
He was also a loser…no matter how you slice it
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isiah Thomas is a loser. Chris Wallace is a loser. Rob Babcock is a loser.
Bob Whitsitt is a winner.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no...they were just bigger losers
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Roster balance is farther down on the list of complaints about a GM
If I’m going to critique a guy, the first thing I’m going to look at isn’t “Did we have too many starter-quality SFs?” Whitsitt, for all his eventual failings did manage to field a competitive team year in and year out while never having a top 10 all time guy at his position (like McHale with KG). That alone should remove him from the roster of truly horrific GMs like Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor, Chris Wallace, et al. At least when Whitsitt was spending a ton of money we won some games. Ask Isiah how well spending money alone has worked for the Knicks.
Did he make some all-time bonehead moves? Sure. Trading for Shawn Kemp (Cleveland actually gave him his monster contract) was probably the worst. Drafting Z-Bo and signing Ruben were pretty bad also, given the character of the team, even though both clearly had talent at the time. Qyntel probably couldn’t have even said to have character, though.
Picking up Sheed, Damon, and Bonzi were decent moves, regardless of their eventual issues. Getting guys like Jim Jackson, Greg Anthony, Walt Williams, Brian Grant and Detlef for basically nothing were great moves, as was acquiring Pip, Augmon and Steve Smith in trades.
Even if you discount any even slightly questionable character move, there’s still a lot of redeemable ones. There’s plenty of GMs out there that you couldn’t even say that about.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whitsitt brought his team to the playoffs 12 straight years
His time had run its course and the Blazers were right to fire him when they did. Still, despite the numerous questionable moves he made, I think its crazy to call his performance “atrocious” given his results.
John Nash/Steve Patterson… now that’s another story. Off the top of my head, the only smart move I can think of from those guys is signing Joel.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He put this franchise into a tailspin that took 6 years
to come out of….sounds like "atrocious" to me
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Said tailspin would have been much shorter if not for the stupidity of Nash/Patterson
and I would gladly take a short ~3 year tailspin again if I could have 12 straight years in the playoffs, including a team as good as the Wallace/Pip Blazers that should have won the title before the tragedy of June 4, 2000.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does he get credit for 12 straight playoffs?
Hired in 94 and resigned in 03
my math may be off but that does sound like 12..plus we were sucktastic enough to get him resigned prior to 03
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the 12 year figure includes 3 in Seattle
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok...fine
but how come nobody is mentioning the 15 outta 16 playoff appearances (plus 2 finals appearances …not WCFs …but league finals) that the team had prior to Whitsitt’s arrival??? Maybe we should put his tenure under that comparison for judgment…basically his teams performed worse than the previous regime’s
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
... is pretty tough to live up to (15 playoffs in 16 years plus 2 finals appearences)
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh..yeah...that is point isn't it
your point is that Whitsett’s results are good even though it created a team atmosphere so toxic they had to blow up it up afterward….well I just showed that it wasn’t necessary and that his performance should be (and is by most people) view in that light
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
going to the playoffs in 21 straight years is extremely rare
Long playoff runs almost always result in having to rebuild via the lottery. Blazer fans were lucky we got to see one of the longest runs ever before we finally have to rebuild. None of the GMs involved in that run should be thought of as anything close to atrocious. Whitsitt wasn’t a legendary GM but he was a winner far more than a loser.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
of all of those GMs
only Bob caused the team to get sooo bad…and soooo toxic….that it had to be dismantled
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if not for the June 4, 2000 choke that team may have won multiple titles
I don’t blame that choke on Whitsitt but rather give him credit for building a team that came that close to a title. Generally speaking, if you tell me that I can have a team minutes away from being heavy favorites in the finals but with the caveat that it might all become toxic if the team chokes, that’s a risk I’d be willing to take again.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it is an age thing
I personally saw it done another way …a more successful way that did not nearly ruin my franchise…so no I wouldn’t take the risk as you laid it out, .
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is only one team I can think of
The Spurs had longevity due to David R and Duncan. A key to that longevity was an injury to David R, and lucking out in one of the best drafts in history. The GM is great for keeping good teams around the stars, but it is not done very often.
Not to say we shouldn’t expect it or strive for it.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Sep 25, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to see
If I could squish another comment in here…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Sep 27, 2009 5:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would it really have taken six years to come out of
if Nash and Patterson hadn’t given absurd deals to the Z-Bo/Miles/Ratliff trifecta? That tailspin was much more their fault than Whitsitt’s. Even the Knicks post-Isiah are looking like they’ll emerge relatively unscathed within 3 years or so, and he was much more damaging to the franchise than the whatever Whitsitt left behind.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like the realistis, jksnake and Royster, intelligently grasp ...
that it’s Steve Patterson and John Nash who should receive Portland’s scathing ire. Some people are sheeple, though, so Bob Whitsitt — as well as Mark Warkentien — will be unjustly maligned by the lemmings.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have heard no one here praise Patterson & Nash
They are in fact not even worth talking about much like Wally in Seattle.
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The hang-up is that some folks lump a relatively successful ...
guy like Bob Whitsitt in with full-on losers like Steve Patterson and Wally Walker — as well as flat-out infamous failures like Isiah Thomas and Rob Babock — thus, I’m here to make a point that people must differentiate the two in all fairness. Whitsitt outperformed many of his peers, so he should get credit for it.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed that comment who made it?
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After I mentioned that Bob Whitsitt was superior to ...
Steve Patterson, 92wastheyear wrote this comment.
“He [Bob Whitsitt] was also a loser…no matter how you slice it”
As it is, Whitsitt wasn’t a loser in any way, shape, or form.
Y’all may’ve disliked his penchant for acquiring guys with poor character — as even I would’ve in some cases, with Ruben Patterson being the most notable one — yet, he still built a winner, which wasn’t the case with Patterson.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah well I would agree that Whitsett was better then Patterson
In fact when Paul Allen first hired BW I remember I was very excited about the move.
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For whatever it's worth, I wouldn't hire Bob ...
Whitsitt as a GM in part due to him always wanting to make moves. Unlike Whitsitt, I’d want a set core in place and then build around it carefully.
Regarding Kevin Pritchard, he’s done that thus far with Brandon Roy and Greg Oden — as well as LaMarcus Aldridge, albeit to a lesser extent — along with surrounding them with apt role players like Joel Przybilla, Nic Batum, Rudy Fernandez, Andre Miller, Steve Blake, et al.
Pritchard, however, gets too attached to guys who don’t fit a team-oriented style of play like Travis Outlaw and Jerryd Bayless, has fallen angel syndrome (e.g., Channing Frye), has an odd affinity for Euros, and a bias toward point guards. Pritchard doesn’t place enough value on frontline depth and defensive fortitude in the paint, either.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"yet, he still built a winner,"
The team that he inherited had made the playoffs 15 outta 16 years prior to his arrival. I would say that he didn’t make it any better…merely mantained the status quo until he finally brought in enough bad actors that the thing had to be blown up…..so yeah…thanks a lot Bob
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notice the word "also"
You said he was a winner ….and I said he was also a loser.
I never said he wasn’t better than Nash…but said he was an unqualified winner…I beg to disagree…for all the winning he did …he was also responsible for this franchises downfall…quit letting him off the hook
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not a BW apologist, but he did take a team that repeatedly exited in the first round to a team that was one quarter away from the finals.
Also, almost every team that wins eventually is blown up. I am struggling to think of one that does not. This phenomena is hardly related to BW. It is nature running its course.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Sep 25, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah?
2 first round exits …not exactly a perennial problem….also two years removed from an NBA finals appearance. So, I had seen the job done better…and not very long before
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whitsitt's 99-00 Blazers were as good as any team under the previous regime...
… except for the ‘90-’91 team which also lost in the conference finals. In my opinion (and this is supported by point differential), both the 99-00 and 90-91 teams were better than they 89-90 and 91-92 teams which made the finals.
What Whitsitt did to transition from the Drexler/Porter Blazers to the Wallace/Pip Blazers without ever dipping into the lottery was an impressive achievement. It would have been very easy to spend several years in the lottery following the breakup of the early 90s Blazers.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
squishy
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Sep 27, 2009 5:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
N&P made mistakes, for sure,
but they also cleaned-up much of the contract mess that Whitsitt made.
The signing of Zach was a mistake, except that there really was nothing else they could do. They were disassembling the Jail Blazers and needed to keep whatever good, young players they could. Zach was rapidly becoming a 20-10 player and it was either pay him or let him walk for not much.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
signed Darius also
passed on CP3.
drafted Telfair, Monia and Khyrapa in the same first round.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one forced them to sign Z-Bo to a huge deal
when your assigned task is to clean up a team’s image, signing a guy who breaks his team mate’s eye socket with a sucker punch at practice to a max deal isn’t really fulfilling that mandate.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one forced them to sign Z-Bo to a huge deal
I don’t think anyone is sure of Paul Allen’s role in the Z-Bo negotiations, but it’s been reported that PA was big on retaining Miles, even though Portland was bidding “against themselves” for Darius
The day that Allen started listening to KP was the turning point of the rebirth of Blazermania
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's an understated aspect of it
PA’s potential unwillingness to commit to a losing team for a couple years, but if we’re going to blame Chris Wallace for Michael Heisley’s moves, Nash and Patterson deserve full credit for anything happening under their watch.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see that I am now a sheeple and a lemming
we guess what? Sometimes people believe the obvious…because it is obvious
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inappropriate
It seems like the realistis, jksnake and Royster, intelligently grasp … that it’s Steve Patterson and John Nash who should receive Portland’s scathing ire. Some people are sheeple, though, so Bob Whitsitt — as well as Mark Warkentien — will be unjustly maligned by the lemmings.
You know, AK, you are intelligent enough that you need not stoop to ad hominems.
As you say, stupid people have stupid ideas, but intelligent people stoop to stupid statements some times, and this was that.
You criticize KP because you don’t know if he has what it takes to fine tune a team to win a championship. Well, we know Whitsitt didn’t.
And Whitsitt brought in a crew of players that disrespected the city and the fans. He spent enough money to start talk of a broken financial model, and make fans wonder if they were going to lose their team. If you can’t see that, well, perhaps you are just too young, or perhaps you just don’t understand.
But if you don’t understand where people are coming from, you don’t call them unable to intelligently grasp things, or call them sheeple, and lemmings, and unjust.
Your shtick is fun to an extent, but you really shouldn’t try so hard to act like a jerk.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
by jscot on Sep 25, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
What worries me is that he might not be trying.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I honestly got worked up in a fit o' rage over this topic.
I truly believe that people are maliciously disparaging Bob Whitsitt. In light of their biased animus toward Whitsitt, they’re displacing their contempt over the “Jail Blazer” era on him — even though it belongs squarely on the bungling feet of Steve Patterson — and not rightfully crediting the so-called “Trader” For building a long-standing winner in Seattle and Portland.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's be fair here
There’s no question Whitsitt helped bring about the “Jail Blazer” era by acquiring the likes of Patterson, Rider… I won’t even bother going down the list. I personally am the type of fan who values winning above “good character” guys so I loved the late 90’s Blazers… but not everybody did.
The Nash/Patterson era was the worst of both worlds— signing guys who both had bad character and were overrated on the court (ie Randolph, Miles) to huge contracts, as well as making terrible draft choices.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly, I advocate not signing some guys based on ...
certain off-court actions. While I’m not bothered by the marijuana use of a Damon Stoudamire or the boorish attitude of a Rasheed Wallace, I’d’ve never signed Ruben Patterson (sexual assault) and immediately released Qyntel Woods (dog fighting) upon learning of the charges against him.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have my limits also-- I didn't like the Patterson signing and was in favor of releasing Woods
Like you though, I had no problem with Stoudamire or Wallace and I also had no problem rooting for Randolph and Miles although (as I became less of a homer) I eventually realized they weren’t really helping my team win.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'dn't've had much tolerance for the ...
idiocy of Darius Miles — both on and off the court — nor the ball-hogging ways of Zach Randolph.
With Randolph, that has more to do with on-court issues; though, Miles would’ve irritated me in all aspects.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Whitsitt has got closer to winning a championship than ...
Kevin Pritchard. I can’t blame Whitsitt for the Seattle SuperSonics coaching staff and players crumbling against Denver in 1994, Wally Walker skating by on his work during the SuperSonics NBA Finals appearance of 1996, or when the Portland Trail Blazers folded under pressure against the Los Angeles Lakers in 2000.
Whitsitt, by the way, also constructed the SuperSonics surprise Western Conference Finals runs in 1987 and 1993, as well as for sustaining the Trail Blazers playoff streak during his entire tenure there from 1994 through 2003.
As it pertains to their overall track record, Whitsitt has inarguably accomplished more than Pritchard. Anyone who tries to deny that is liar, pure and simple.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whitsett was here for 9
Let’s see if KP has that title in 9
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he does
AK will say he lucked into it. :)
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
by jscot on Sep 26, 2009 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, I'll give Kevin Pritchard credit where it's due.
I might add some backhanded compliments, though.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 26, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they say "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down"
but in your case, a spoonful of medicine keeps the “red kool-aid” from going down
cold and flu season is approaching fast, so everyone should be taking their “medicine”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 26, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a fan, but his problem was that Allen tasked him with rebuilding without going into the lottery.
That is hard to do. After all, not even KP managed that. He needed 4 years in the lottery.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put it this way: Which team would you rather be, the Phoenix Suns who have to pretend to compete while cutting cost and still tasked to reach the playoffs every year with a badly assembled roster and discontent stars who aren’t good enough to win it all anymore. Or a team that admits publicly to being crappy for a few years but builds from the ground up around young talent a la the current Blazers, Sonics/Thunder, or now the Wolves.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Blazers "are" the Suns and the Jazz
We just have one more championship than those other two teams have (combined) over our franchise history
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully not anymore. I think the Blazers under Whitsitt & Co. were the Suns.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apt comparison
I think the current Pistons are a pretty good one, too, for the Whitsitt era Blazers.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed- that's a great comparison
Short runs of excellence with an ensemble cast followed by some struggles. The one difference is that the Pistons won a title and the Blazers choked theirs away.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The amusing thing is Joe Dumars is now entering the ...
Patterson/Nash era on his own with the putrid signings of Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon — coupled with the misguided long-term contract extension of Rip Hamilton — so expect some lean years to commence in Motown.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I really don't understand why he did that.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Isiah must be nearby.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah what was up with that?
They understandably decided to move on from their core, so I didn’t hate the Billups trade for them since it created all that cap-space… but then they used that capspace terribly.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In principle, there was a rhyme and reason to ...
Allen Iverson trade. Yet, there’s no justification for extending an aging Richard Hamilton or blowing tons of cap space on a poor fit in Ben Gordon and a power soft forward in Charlie Villanueva.
For the Detroit Pistons, Joe Dumars ought to have taken something like a low-risk gamble on Carlos Boozer via a trade with that Utah Jazz and, in turn, headed into the 2010 off-season with cap space.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems more like Whitsitt post 2000 WCF
where he was trading for a bunch of random guys and handing out inexplicable contracts (Will Perdue, Shawn Kemp, Dale Davis, Ruben, Derek Anderson, Chris Dudley, Steve Kerr, Jeff McInnis). Just not a lot of rhyme or reason to those years, other than the constant theme of bringing in huge stiffs to try and guard Shaq.
Still, it could have been worse, Jim McIlvaine wasn’t involved.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
over the long haul
40+ year franchises having consistent (W-L .500+) success but ultimately in the shadow of L*A. I wasn’t referring to the present condition of the teams or the way they’re being managed
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
It’s basically impossible to rebuild without dipping into the lottery for at least a couple years. The shortest stints being the Spurs in 97 in an injury fluke on par with anything ever to happen in the NBA, and the Lakers, who are only contenders now due to a miraculous gift from Chris Wallace.
Probably the most impressive restructuring this decade, though, has been the Mavs. Sure, Dirk’s been around the entire time, but going from a Dirk/Nash/Finley core to the current team while being a legit contender year after year is seriously impressive.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers were in the lottery in 2005
So even they didn’t manage a completely clean turnaround. Dallas likely won’t either once Dirk retires, but you can be pretty sure Cuban and Nelson will acquire another All-Star after no more than one season in between. If that is enough to make them a contender again remains to be seen. Building around a young core is a strategy that is almost required, and for that you have to take a few bad years and then make the right acquisitions.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Sep 25, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply they weren't
but even with the one foray with the tenth pick and Bynum, they’d still be nowhere near title contention without Pau. I don’t expect Dallas to build around it either, and Donnie has made some terrible moves (Dampier, especially), but he’s also had to cut his third best player for financial reasons and taken a core with two aging guys in a “big three” (Finley/Nash) and converted it into a much younger, equally solid group (Harris, Terry, Howard). Admittedly, the last couple years have reeked a little of desperation, but it’s been a solid run for them.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
still be nowhere near title contention without Pau.
The L*kers were so close to imploding before that deal. There was talk of K*be demanding Kupchack to trade him to Chicago, and if that had happened PJack would’ve walked
then Wallace and the Griz bailed out L*A and Buss
(as Gollum would say "we curssse them forever!!!)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Chris Wallace bailed out Mitch Kupchak's ass.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That mind-control bug Jerry West implanted
in Wallace’s brain before he left the Grizz was a stroke of genius on Kupchak’s part.
.
.
………………….KUPCHAAAAAAKKKK!!!!
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only smart move I can think of from those guys
Hiring Kevin Pritchard?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One other thing
It was a pretty smart move by Steve Patterson to go to whoever was cutting his hair, but it always looked hot.
by tominhawaii on Sep 25, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew you were gonna play the ...
…haircut card. You always do
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever been close to him?
My only regret in life is not touching his hair when I had the chance.
by tominhawaii on Sep 25, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys should come over for Thanksgiving
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Sep 27, 2009 5:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whitsitt ruined the Portland Trail Blazers name and image.
The players he brought to the team drove fans and sponsors away. Even Isiah Thomas never did that.
And given the virtually unlimited resources Paul Allen put at Whitsitt’s disposal, two conference finals failures and a bunch of first-round exits, combined with the millions of dollars in lost franchise value and PR that resulted counts as atrocious in my book.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+92
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely the measure of success or failure that must be there to pay the bills
You nailed it. Rec
by lee3022 on Sep 26, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but (allegedly) Wark is not "neutral" when talking to A-Woj
There’s been speculation that Mark is the “league source” that Adrian has refered to, when he’s dissed KP in his columns. It’s also been reported that Wark was none too pleased that Pritch got the Blazer’s GM job
Free advice: interview strategy (aka the “Dan Patrick” approach) soften them up with the softball questions then hit them with the “how do you really feel about Kevin Pritchard?” at the end of the interview when they’re relaxed. If they mumble something and cut you off you’ve still got enough material for a column, and you know from the non-answer that “where there’s smoke, there’s fire”
Of course, you may never get the opportunity to interview Mark again, but a good investigative journalist’s “got to do what he’s got to do” right?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Weren’t the rumors that it was Mark W. all along that was saying rude things about Pritchard ‘anonymously’?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
by staylost on Sep 25, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh huh
Poor guy is real mad he got passed over for Blazers GM
by goblazer1 on Sep 25, 2009 9:01 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
With the dust settled, Mark Warkentien is surely happy he left Portland and landed in Denver.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see about that.
(Well, you may be correct. Following Bob’s example he may be happy with extremely talented failures.)
Or do you mean that Warkentien wouldn’t be able to rejuvenate the Blazers like KP did.
I get your love of Buford, and I get your wish for KP love to come back to earth.
I don’t get the Wark. love because he has done nearly little that was exceptional except for spreading underhanded remarks behind the shadows like a gossiping old lady.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
by staylost on Sep 25, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got a good situation for sure
But being passed over for a promotion you wanted—TWICE—gotta sting.
That said, he shouldn’t be bitter about KP, and he sounds not bitter about Allen.
But being passed over for J**n N**h?
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Sep 25, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since the Billups Iverson trade
I have more respect for them and just cant work up the same kind of hate as i naturally have for Utah or LA
by southern oregon on Sep 25, 2009 2:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahem.
Last year the Nuggets posted 54 wins, their best finish in the franchise’s NBA history, won the division, and gave the Lakers a tough go in the Conference Finals, also a franchise milestone.
Don’t you mean co-won? :)
There are rules for these things. If we’re talking about the Blazers, then it is said that we won the division, no qualifiers needed. But when talking about the Nuggets, the qualifier must always be added that they had to share the division crown with us. My fandom will permit no less. If my three-year old daughter can reason in this manner, then so can I.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Sep 25, 2009 4:11 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Mark Warkentien hit's the mark, misses the mark...
I certainly agree with his statements concerning Paul Allen. I do think Paul Allen is one of the best owners in sports and more specifically the best owner Portland could have, I’m not sure pro basketball survives in Portland without Allens support. He certainly has made sacrifices that has made it easier for Portland to avoid the harsh realities of Seattle. With fans, I don’t know if Allen get’s the credit he deserves.
While I think almost everyone would agree that given almost unlimited financial backing and resources Bob Whittsit proved able to execute deals and trades…there is a reason he was called Trader Bob, I’m far less inclined to agree with his assesment of Bob Whittsit.
Mark Warkentien worked 12 seasons with Whittsit so it would be unfair and unlikely and unprofessional to expect him to do anything but defend Whittsit, but I’m sorry, IMO the passage of time revealed Whittsits weaknesses.
Trader Bob had a blank check in Portland, and even if you just want to look at his winning percentage while tenured in Portland, one must consider that while Portland consistently had one of the highest, if not the highest payrolls in the N.B.A., the best he produced in 9 years was 7 first round exits. If it wasn’t for the addition of Sabonis and Pippen and Steve Smith we might not even have the two trips to the finals.
As this current incarnation of The Blazers was assembled a phrase we used to hear was “long term sustainability” and this team was built with that factor in mind. Whittsit never assembled with that in mind. Not to mention Whittsits admitted weakness in assesing chemistry and character when assembling a team.
Since Warkentien say’s- “Chauncey is a high-character guy with local roots and his presence created good karma with the locals; the Pepsi Center is not an easy place to play”- It would seem he has learned something from working many years with Whittsit and that is not to make the same mistakes. Because somehow I feel Whittsit would be a GM much more likely to try and obtain an Allen Iverson than a Chauncey Billups.
Having said all that, it doesn’t suprise me he supports Whittsit. While I don’t think Whittsit as a GM, for most years, provided Paul Allen with good return for his financial investment and I think his disregard for assesing character created numerous problems that took years and years to fix in his absence, I think Whittsit operated in the manner he was allowed to operate….which I suspect is why Pritchard and The New Blazer Organization do value character, have built with an eye to sustainability, Which again points to Whittsits weaknesses as a GM and Paul Allens evolution as an owner.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Sep 25, 2009 5:10 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Wait, what?
If it wasn’t for three moves that Whitsitt made we might not have made it to the western conference finals so he doesn’t get any credit for that?
Did he not have anything to do with trading Rider for Smith? Or Walt for Pip? Or convincing Sabas to finally sign here?
He made plenty of bad moves at the tail end of his tenure here, but at least give credit where it’s due. If you took out any GM’s best three moves (although I’d put Strick for Sheed in there as one of trader Bob’s best), then their tenure would look pretty dire. It’d be like saying “yeah, Pritchard is okay, but if we didn’t trade for Roy and draft LaMarcus Aldridge, does he even get us to the playoffs?”
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did good things
and some were very good.
He did bad things, and some were very bad.
In the end, that makes him average as showcased by so many first round exits. The organization road the extremes and so people are somewhat polarized.
As a fan, making the play-offs is never enough. We likely could have done worse, but we also likely could have done better.
Either way, it’s the past and it’s bitter. The present is sweet and I look forward to the future.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
by ratbastird on Sep 25, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rode
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
by ratbastird on Sep 25, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait for what?
My contention isn’t that Whitsitt never brought any good talent in, we did make two runs to the finals while he was at the helm so who could argue that we did not have a talented roster at that time?
However as far as Sabonis goes? How much of that was brillance on Whitsitts side and how much was simply timing? The Blazers had courted Sabonis for years ever since drafting him. I don’t know how much credit goes to Whitsitt for obtaining Sabonis or how much was Sabonis finally decided to give the N.B.A. a shot. I never really heard any story that Sabonis coming to Portland was due to any great sales pitch or maneauvering of Bob Whittsit. Maybe Whitsitt does deserve some credit, I just don’t know.
As far as many of his other moves, Pippen, Smith specifically, Whittsit did have a blank check from Paul Allen. I guess, give him credit, but it’s a little easier to be a “Trader” when the boss is allowing you to spend as much as you can or want.
If you are a Whittsit fan, I’m sorry, but I have to judge Whittsit by what happened when the Sabonis, Rasheed, Pippen, Smith experiment failed. When it was clear that nuculeus wasn’t going to win a championship and due to age had no long term sustainability, Whittsit’s moves were imo, poor. If it is a GM’s job to guide a franchise as a whole, it was Whittsit that guided The Blazers directly into a lot of the problems that took years to fix.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Sep 25, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a whitsitt fan
for a lot of the reasons you specify, but credit goes where it’s due, regardless of the circumstances. The Knicks have had a blank check for the entire decade, and they’ve been terrible. Money doesn’t guarantee success. Whitsitt didn’t see the writing on the wall after the 2000 finals that the team had basically quit on each other and needed to be disassembled and for that I fault him. Rather than blow it up, he tried a bunch of quick fixes with increasingly questionable character guys, which was a huge mistake, and he gets dinged for it plenty.
But he always was the guy who brought in Brian Grant, Jim Jackson, Walt WIlliams, Steve Smith, Scottie Pippen, Greg Anthony, Stacey Augmon, and Detlef Schrempf, all of which were great additions. Compare that to the Knicks additions this decade.
If we’re going to be objective about it, let’s at least look at what he did well, in addition to his later failings.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really...
I am being objective about it. If a GM is at the helm for almost a decade I think being objective is looking at where he guided the franchise as a whole. Not looking at a list of players and saying, well some of them were good players. IMO Whittsits ego, and his admitted refusal to consider team chemistry and individual players character was a deadly combination that led The Blazers to the lowest spot in franchise history. Remember in the wake of The “Jail Blazer” era, most of which was created by players Whittsit obtained, that Blazer popularity was at an all time franchise low, and you had Paul Allen considering selling the franchise. Whittsit’s tenure initiated the disconnect between the franchise and the community. The fact that in 9 years, some of the players he obtained were good, doesn’t change the damage he did to the franchise as a whole. That’s personal opinion, but I also think objective.
It was other people that attempted to clean up Whittsits mess, and it was a long process inwhich we are really just emerging within the past few years.
Indeed be objective, but what Whittsit did well, pales in comparison to the what he did badly.
The Knicks have also sucked. ??? So?
I think we just disagree, to be honest I don’t think Whittsit was the worst GM The Blazers ever had, because Whittsit could make deals happen and did find talent. I’ve always thought Whittsit would of made a good talent scout, as long as someone was double checking the character of the players Whittsit found. But he had a fatal flaw in his inability to factor in character and chemistry. So while IMO not the worst GM in our history, he was the GM that is the most responsible for leading us to the worst place in franchise history.
To me it’s objective and simple on one level. The “Jail Blazer” era was the most damaging, destructive time in The Blazers franchise history and IMO the GM most responsible for it’s creation was Bob Whittsit. So don’t ask me to give him much credit for being a good GM because over a decade not every player he brought in was bad.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Sep 25, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point was
“He may have made some good moves, but he had a ton of cash, so it was easy”. Hence my Knicks example; cash is no guarantee of even having a winning record, much less making the playoffs.
I never said Whitsitt was good, just that he’s not the incompetent fool that he’s often characterized. He tried to go all in on a championship run, and didn’t have the courage to cut his losses when he had to. Part of this was no doubt due to a desire to preserve the playoff streak which prevented the purge that the team needed.
Still, he didn’t force Nash to trade for and re-sign Miles and Ratliff to stupid contracts, he didn’t force Nash to re-sign Z-Bo for stupid money, draft Telfair or pass on CP3. The situation with the potential sale of the Blazers didn’t happen until 2006, three years after Whitsitt was fired. He may have started us down the path that ended there, but to think it would have gotten anwhere near that bad without Nash and Patterson screwing up basically every single decision in their tenure doesn’t make sense to me.
So yes, his lack of a long term vision was inexcusable, but compared to the Nash’s, Isiah’s, and Scott Layden’s of the GM world, the guy was RC Buford. Not saying much, but it could’ve been worse, and it was.
by Royster on Sep 25, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No that was NEVER my point.
Try reading ALL of my posts. My point never was he may of made some good moves but he had a ton of cash so it was easy.
In my original post I did as a single fact (among many other points) mention that Whittsit had a blank check during most of his regime. This is simply a fact. Whittsit operated under a much more open, spending time period for The Blazers. That’s fact.
I never said that spending huge amounts of money guaranteed success, infact I said just the opposite, that I thought for most of Whittsits tenure Paul Allen didn’t get his moneys worth. In my opinion if you are spending for a league leading payroll, you should have a league leading team, and for at least 7 of 9 Whittsit years, Allen was paying for a finalist/championship team but only got a first round and out playoff team. The fact, that this may happen with other franchises such as The Knicks, is inmaterial, it’s still an owner, imo, not getting his moneys worth. Plus this is Blazers Edge and we are talking about The Blazers and Whittsit not The Knicks. Compare train wrecks all you want, your still comparing train wrecks, the existence of one, doesn’t justify the other.
As far as did having almost unlimited resources make Whittsits job easier? Well, it certainly didn’t make it harder. But you may imagine whatever you wish.
Believe it or not, I agree with you about much of Nash/Patterson or the 3 amigos era. I also said I didn’t think Whittsit was the worst GM in Blazer history. Even though Whittsit imo led The Blazers to the worst point in their history, functionally Nash/Patterson were worse…imo.
The Nash/Patterson era was ugly. I do not wish to splinter this debate by going into specifics, but I was no fan of Nash/Patterson. However, I would say Nash and Patterson came in, in the wake of the Whittsit disaster. They were put at the helm of The Blazers at a horrible time. I always felt Whittsit created a horrible situation in Portland, then exited and left his mess for others to try and fix. Allen also was at least very distracted in a battle with PAM over the ownership of The Rose Garden. So while I agree Nash and Patterson was a pretty incompetent time period, they were brought in during a time Allen was withdrawing his support of The Blazers and they were asked to make something out of the malcontents and ashes Whittsit left behind. Plus I always have suspected that in an effort to get PAM to weaken, Paul Allen actually wasn’t very interested in The Blazers doing very well during that period. But that is only pure speculation.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Sep 26, 2009 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
Whitsett was the hurricane …..Nash/Patterson was the inept FEMA trying come in and clean it up only to make it worse
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 26, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Also, a lot of people bitch and moan about the Miles and Randolph contracts. However, I remember a poll at the time asking Blazer fans what to do with Zbo, Miles, and Ratliff. Due to their exciting play at the end of the season, I believe it was like 8-2 that we should keep all of them.
We have such short, revisionist memories…
Patty Mills - PG of the future. Book it.
by Blazerholic on Sep 26, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of Philly fans
were ecstatic about signing Brand. Same with Clipper fans and Baron. Dampier was supposed to be the piece that put Dallas over the edge when they signed him. Just because fans like a signing at the time doesn’t mean it’s the right, or even a good move.
If anything, the Randolph signing was the perfect microcosm of the hypocrisy of fan sentiment about not only Patterson and Nash’s regime, but also fan sentiment about the era. He was clearly not a good character guy and yet they committed huge dollars to him. The fans were on board because even though cleaning up the team was the most important thing, but because Z-Bo was a 20/10 guy we had to keep him. Either you clean house, or you don’t. It was doing it halfway that put us in the hole for about three extra years. This led to my favorite all-time Bill Simmons line:
then they built a likable young core around Zach Randolph and Darius Miles, which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he’s quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons … but he’s going to keep snorting heroin.
by Royster on Sep 26, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
That was where they lost me as a fan. They didn’t get me back until the day they drafted Oden. But it wasn’t the Oden pick, it was dumping Zach. That was when I finally believed they were serious about cleaning it up.
After all, we could have kept Zach and drafted Durant. A backcourt of Jarrett (or later Steve) and Brandon, Durant and Zach, and LMA at center. It wouldn’t have been the classic lineup, but they would have won a lot of games. If Durant had come into a team where he didn’t have to be THE scorer, he would have been amazing.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
by jscot on Sep 26, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boo. I still don't like him. Thanks for helping build the Jail Blazers regime
that drove a wedge between the team and the city and made us a national punchline.
Patty Mills - PG of the future. Book it.
by Blazerholic on Sep 25, 2009 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I forgot to add that he created the "broken financial model" by overspending
like crazy, which led to the Patterson regime, which nearly forced PA to sell the team. Without owning the Rose Garden, that team probably would have been moved. AK1984 doesn’t care for KP, but without KP’s record-breaking moves in the draft that made basketball “fun” again for PA, this team would probably be gone.
I don’t blame AK1984 for his comments…he wasn’t here, he doesn’t understand what it was like. He can only evaluate through hindsight, which doesn’t seem that bad when you’ve lost your own team. If I could put it into perspective for him, he should think about how he felt when the Sonics went up for sale, and then were sold to Bennett, BEFORE we knew they were moving. That’s what it felt like here. We were that close, and you can’t lay all the blame for that on Patterson & Nash, who wouldn’t have even been necessary without the excesses of Whitsett & Wark.
The Whitsett/Wark era can be likened to drinking and partying to excess – fun while it lasts, but you know the next morning hangover will be killer. Another analogy – our recent housing-based economy and the subsequent crash. You just can’t sustain that kind of excess.
Patty Mills - PG of the future. Book it.
by Blazerholic on Sep 25, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
without KP’s record-breaking moves in the draft that made basketball "fun" again for PA, this team would probably be gone.
KP bedazzled Allen with his “golden gut” and when Paul wanted to “talk shop” he found KP more than able to keep up with him, cell phone battery for cell phone battery.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 25, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no..
It really doesn’t matter how good with money Bob Whitsitt was, he sucked at evaluating character and talent. Bob himself once said he was “never studied chemistry in college”. Isn’t that like being a cook and then publically admitting you suck at cooking?
Here’s a look at the many players who came through our system during Bob’s debacle of a career with Portland. Sorry, but if you can tell, I’m not a fan.
Gary Trent (drafted in 1995)
Jermaine O’Neal (drafted in 1996)
(Who we later trade for Dale Davis. O’Neal goes on to become an all-star with the Pacers.)
Rasheed Wallace (acquired by trade in 1996)
Isaiah Rider (acquired by trade in 1996)
Damon Stoudamire (acquired by trade in 1998)
(One of the only “decent” moves Bob made in his career.)
Bonzi Wells (drafted in 1999)
Shawn Kemp (acquired by trade in 2000)
(Who we traded Brian Grant for??? Seriously?)
Rod Strickland (signed as free agent in 2001)
Zach Randolph (drafted in 2001)
Ruben Patterson (signed as free agent in 2001)
(At the time we signed him, he was a convicted sex offender.)
Qyntel Woods (drafted in 2002)
Jeff McInnis (signed as free agent in 2002)
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
by halo_on on Sep 25, 2009 8:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he sucked at evaluating character
but not talent. All those players on that list had good careers except for Woods. The only bad trade was the O’Neal trade. Brian Grant was leaving anyways, he was traded to Miami as part of a sign and trade deal.
by ggassen85 on Sep 25, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brian Grant Deal?
Depends on who you talk to, Whittsit has said he wanted Brian to stay, Grant has contended that Whittsit was going to trade him. The stories from the two parties are far apart. But Grant has contended he left because he felt his departure was inevitable.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Sep 25, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both stories are correct.
I’ve said before that Brian Grant needed a change of venue for personal reasons I’d rather not go into. Whitsitt gets a pass on trading him, and I’m sure he was disappointed that he had to do so.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 25, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omitted from list
Here is two more Whittsit acquisitions that I can think of off the top of my head
Steve Smith in 99-00 for Rider
and Scottie Pippen for seven players gthe best of which were Jimmy Jackson, Walt Williams and Kelvin Cato.
by NWfan on Sep 25, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not against Warkentien.
I am dismayed that he is praised on this site by the same person who criticized KP for a lack of roster balance and not getting a backup PF. KP has 2 quality players at every position.Who are Denvers backups? how many of them would even break into our rotation? maybe 2 sorry (not really) I’ll roll with KP.
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 25, 2009 9:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
wow
I never thought this would spark so much debate. Very cool.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
by ratbastird on Sep 25, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And it has little to do with Warkentien.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Sep 25, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Warkentien the guy bashing KP?
"Goals are good. Plans are better." -Ben.
by Sabonis4Ever on Sep 25, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
did we ever find that out for sure?
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave said it
that is close enough for me. I more confident of Dave’s speculation than I am for other people’s facts.
(I think they said that in a Star Trek movie)
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Sep 25, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my first guess was always Dunleavy, but Warkentien was a logical possibility also.
by jksnake99 on Sep 25, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see Mike Dunleavy, Sr. bashing Portland and/or Paul Allen, but not Kevin Prtichard.
From their personal history and how things ended in the Rose City for Mark Warkentien, it seemed that he was indeed Adrian Wojnarowski’s anonymous source.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Sep 25, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After BW
The team decided to go in a Newd irection, and hire Nash and Patterson. Then I think they skipped him again, and hired KP.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Sep 25, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can probably guess the reason for his animosity,
but I don’t wanna sully Dave’s nice post.
"Goals are good. Plans are better." -Ben.
by Sabonis4Ever on Sep 25, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course
of course he likes Whittsit. He’s doing the exact same thing in Denver. Bringing in a bunch of talented scumbags to win a title…Only the creeps on the Nuggets have a little more star-power
by Tjdragt on Sep 25, 2009 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no, Blazers of 00 had more star power,
they also would of kicked the crap out of last years Lakers.
by ggassen85 on Sep 25, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
"Goals are good. Plans are better." -Ben.
by Sabonis4Ever on Sep 25, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update:
Fair enough. If he says it, I’ll believe it until something shows otherwise. Anyway, as long as the Nuggets are facing the Lakers in the playoffs, I’ll be rooting for the Nuggets to go 4-0.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
by staylost on Sep 25, 2009 11:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe my post got deleted
Because I implied this guy looks like wimpy from the popeye cartoon. Because he does…
And all the stuff I said about Trader Bob was right on target. And funny. I’m rather irritated with the unnecessary censorship frankly…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Sep 27, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering if that's what really happened.
I’ve seen enough complaints about deleted threads that were harmless that it makes me wonder if there’s a glitch in the software. Or maybe the mods are hitting the sauce again.
by MiledAnimal on Sep 27, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it an original comment
Or was it a reply to a comment? If it was a reply, then deletion of any comment above it in the same thread of replies would delete yours as well. For example, if MiledAnimal’s comment is deleted, then mine would be too.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Sep 28, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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