Brandon Roy admits being a "selfish" player. No really.
by conspirator5 on Sep 21, 2009 11:21 PM PDT
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PrintI know Eddie Jordan's Johnson's Hoopshype blog entry has generated both backlash and some wicked sarcasm in the fanposts, and I do think it might just just a bit excessive to throw one more log onto the fire, but Eddie said something way down in the comments in a reply to something I said that I think bears examination:
Listen, the box score will not prove what i am saying. Roy does not take a ton of shots i agree. What i am saying is that his style of game is to score first and pass second. Compared to Lebron who is a pass first score second player. Now understand this is not a bad thing concerning Roy. It just creates a problem when the scorer has the ball to start the offense. Although Roy would prefer his teammates not stand and watch, they can’t help but do it because all his teammates understand that he is their scorer. so they freeze.
Kobe and Michael went through the same thing and Roy will have to change and play more off the ball with movement. This will make him a great offensive player instead of just a good offensive player. the one thing i know about this game is offense. No player in the history of this league scored more points than me off the bench. i have played with superstars who held the ball and froze teammates and i have played with superstars who played without the ball.
That is why Andre Miller will make them better because when he has the ball those players will not freeze. they will understand when they get open the ball will get to them, but most importantly Roy will find out he will not face a defense leaning to shut him down. Why? because they will not have him in their sights consistently. Why? because defenses target the ball and the ball will not be stuck in his hands all the time.
In reading this, I got to thinking about what Eddie had to say. While I still think it's incorrect for him to describe Roy as "selfish" per se, aren't Eddie's comments quite similar to things we have read about in the past? Here's a bit from a Jquick article on July 27th, 2008, including a quote from B-Roy himself:
And the knock on Roy? He can only make plays when he has the ball in his hands.
"I felt there were times last year ... not that I hurt the team, but I could have been better if I was better off the ball,'' Roy said. "If I was better coming off screens, better at running downcourt ... instead I was looking to get the ball instead of running to the wing.''
And yet, as the season progressed, it seemed like all the people around Brandon were looking for him to increase his scoring volume. Check this article from December 19th, 2008:
Now, he has embraced the role of scorer, yet he worries about the manner in which he is going about it. On Thursday, Roy entered the halftime locker room and asked Shavlik Randolph whether he was being too aggressive, when in essence he was asking whether he was being too selfish. Randolph told him that he should shoot even more.
So here we are more than a year later and we find that some folks at least are still hitting Brandon with a ding that is over a year old. What I'd like to know is, where does this perceived problem come from?
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Great points by Eddie.
I think he is spot-on. And while I think Miller will certainly help, I still don’t see why we haven’t been able to run more off-ball with Brandon using Blake as the set-up guy. We’ll see if Andre is a better set-up man than Blake. Different styles.
I think the first poll option should be “We lack additional players who can INITIATE on offense. . . . .”
put a body on 'em
You read my intent correctly.
Fixed. Of course that may skew the results of the poll, but I’m not from the Pew Research Center either.
by conspirator5 on Sep 22, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions
ummm
“On Thursday, Roy entered the halftime locker room and asked Shavlik Randolph whether he was being too aggressive”
I think that alone shows how unselfish Roy is… i get the point eddie was trying to make, but selfish is the wrong word or explanation for what was going on. Its not that Roy was being selfish, it is that there was no other options.. if Roy was able to play off the ball more with the players they had, he would have. Blake could not initiate the offense very well and miller can.. Roy will have more options and will be able to be affective without having to start off with the ball. Miller will be able to get Roy the ball in more ideal positions to score.
The one thing that I did disagree with Eddie about was Roy’s play early in the games. With the addition of Miller, it will give Roy the chance to be more affective earlier in the games, without having to score on his own. Hopefully it will make Roy’s production through out the game more balanced instead of him getting the majority of his points in the fourth quarter.
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
I remember writing this, after the Philly game in the RG where Miller's BBIQ beat Portland
Roy was being doubled by Andre when he spun off his ISO at the top of the key. At the time, there were no other Blazers who could take the ball from Brandon and penetrate the defense from the weak side. All of Roy’s teammates were spot-up shooters (Rudy, Blake, Travis, LMA) I wrote back then that Portland needed to add a “2nd creator” who could catch a “safety valve” pass from Brandon and break down the resulting 4-on-3 and get an easy basket (or FTs) for himself or one of the Blazer’s big men
It’s ironic that the cause of the problem (Andre) will now become part of the solution to it
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
wasn't that quote pulled from the game article
where Roy scored 52?
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a woman healthy, wealthy, and wise. That's why you all are wiser than me. It's cloudydays."
yep
At least that’s how I remembered it as well.
You're saying that they look like they're giving it their all. And you know why they look that way? Because they're bad, and it literally takes them the maximum physical effort to accomplish basic baseball tasks like throwing the ball from short to first. When David Eckstein throws the ball to first base, he has to wind up like a shot-putter, spin around forty-three times, and launch it at an angle 89 degrees from the horizontal. Afterwards, he undergoes an IV drip for a fortnight and he's so out of breath that he requires several months of acupuncture to regain the power of speech. For this we laud him. -Junior of Deadspin on 'scrappy' players
It's Eddie Johnson, not Eddie Jordan
There are actually two Eddie Johnsons, but it’s this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Johnson_(basketball)
- Played 17 years in the NBA for the Kings, Suns, SuperSonics, Hornets, Pacers, Nuggets and Rockets.
- Won the 1988-89 NBA Sixth Man Award averaging 21.5 ppg.
- NBA all-time leading scorer among players with no All-Star appearances.
- He is in his sixth year as the color analyst for the Phoenix Suns broadcasts.
- You can visit his website at www.jumpshotclub.com.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
It is hard to believe that Eddie Johnson was never an All-Star.
He sure killed the Blazers on many occasions, particularly as a King and as a Sun. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
not many 6th men make it to the ASG
EJ was a gunner, and not a whole lot more
Kind of like Vinnie Johnson, but at the SF position. I don’t think the Microwave ever made a ASG roster, either
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I guess he was selfish
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
not selfish
Anyone who has ever played ball knows that worse players tend ot hide from the ball. Roys the best we have and if he is doing it all then the pressure off them. It is not that they are not good but they are young. The good news is we have several players that are breaking this pattern LA and Rudy. The better news is next year expect GO and probably Batum and a few other confidence to rise and Roy will defer believe me. I only say this because I have been in game(only high school) but I was on fire and our best player and everyone forced me to make it happen. You do not have these problems with international ball thats why you see less super star numbers and thats why Rudy has no problem requesting the ball. So calling Roy selfish is not the correct call for this situation. Now if Roy is still doing this two years from now then there a problem.
"Coach Nate's playbook is unimaginative and relies on isolation plays."
I think that statement is valid for past seasons, not because he´s a bad coach, but because that was the best way to succeed with this team at that time in his mind, and I think he was right.
I think Nate has tried to add small dosis of new plays, specially for Oden, trying to develope his offensive game. It was a risk but the organization thought it was a sound risk to take. It didn´t work well and Nate almost put “the end by now” on it. He also let Sergio and Rudy do their things, but he didn´t want to change his basketball ideas for his Spanish players´ones. I´ve always thought Rudy tried to convince Nate to change his playing book since Rudy said “Nate was right” after they lost a preseason game against Golden State. I saw Nate smiling when the Blazers second unit were outrun by the Warriors. At the end of the season Rudy was asked in Spain about the best and the worst he could say about Nate. He answered something like this: The best, Nate trusted on me. The worst, he didn´t want to take risks.
Late in the past season Nate said he wanted the team to run more and fastbreak every time the opportunity presents itself. So Nate is adding more and more stuff once he feels confortable with new things. I think we´ll see some new things this preseason. Nate will test some things and, again, once the season starts he will use the ones he´s confortable with.
by amlmart1 on Sep 22, 2009 1:44 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Is the real chemistry issue this season between Andre Miller and Coach?
The story about Nate and Andre getting all moon-eyed over the clipboard is well known in these parts by now. I think you’re spot on in your analysis of Coach Nate’s slowly evolving complexities. Assuming the coaching staff is on board with the sentiment that the championship push begins now, do you think we’ll see all of McMillan’s kung fu unleashed with Miller as his alter ego on the floor?
by conspirator5 on Sep 22, 2009 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Good question.
The roster is so good, the amount of combinations is so large and they´ve had that much success that I can´t predict anything, aside from Brandon and LA playing in the first unit. I think Nate has his own ideas and he will also listen to his players and coaches suggestions in preseason. Although it´s evident he trusts more on vets like Andre, Miller has to demonstrate first that he fits really well in this team. I hope he does well enough to play with the first unit. It would be a very good sign for the Blazers.
Good stuff
Nate has the rep for being a rigid disciplinarian, and like all smart people he likely thinks he is right most of the time, but most of his success with the Blazers is due to his willingness to change and try new things.
Being there for the players for advice, listening to their problems, checking with Roy to get the pulse of the team, supporting “new” techniques such as the sleep doctor and sports psychologist… as a young coach, he is learning and changing each year.
I really like Nate. I think he fears what would have happened before if he “lost control” of the team, so to speak, and kept them chained down a bit— but it worked, and was the right thing to do to develop a playoff team. I hope, as our key players grow along with Nate, he won’t even notice how much he trusts them to do the right thing… it’ll just happen, and our playing style won’t be just Nate’s, or Roy’s, it will be the Blazer’s style.
Quick attacks that utilize our depth and athleticism when there, and super-efficient halfcourt play otherwise. And, uh, hopefully better defense.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Sep 22, 2009 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great comment
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Nate and Brandon
Make no mistake. The Say-So on this team resides with Nate and BRoy.
It’s as if they are from the same mold. Skill-honed players both, Brandon retains a remarkable amount of control in the midst of his bruising rides to the rim, and Nate coaches a game of control.
If the skill needed to execute a move is not mastered, don’t execute the move. That philosophy is apparent in both Brandon’s playing, and Nate’s coaching.
But like any strength, if relied on too heavily, their devotion to control and mastery becomes a weakness. And so it is with these young Blazers.
Nate might say that he will be happy to give up control when the players earn his trust, but a great coach must do more than that. He must anticipate the team that his players will become, to challenge them to become a whole, even if it is a whole that he won’t entirely recognize.
It’s like directing a film. The good film-makers know that they are not going to end up with the thing they imagined at the beginning, but they trust themselves and their people enough to roll with it. And thus opening the door for something great to happen.
So it is with our young coach and all-star. They need others to make greatness happen. And they need to allow those others to shape that greatness. This will be a fascinating season for our Power Brokers, Brandon and Nate. The challenge for both of them is going to be in the collaboration and letting go. If Nate is really worth his salt, he has a plan for this to happen, for how to grow past Brandon in to a team.
by Blazin' on Sep 22, 2009 4:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good stuff
Remember last year at this time Nate invited Roy, LMA and Oden to his house for dinner? This year, they should have another “dinner with Andre”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This makes me thing of comments KP and Nate made when they interviewed Miller
Where Miller deconstructed their offense and surprised them with his thorough knowledge of our offense. That alone makes me think that Nate will change his offense up more this year.
Has the season started yet?
by SabasforThree on Sep 23, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
That's why we signed him
We didn’t want anyone else to sign him and get all that information.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
great post
I didn’t think it was a big deal either way, but I think Eddie could have been more clear about what he was saying in the original article. It could just be the use of the word ‘selfish’ that set people off.
Anyway, I think its solid analysis.
Yeah, it seems to be all about connotation rather than calling out Brandon
What’s disturbing to me is that you could run a find/replace on “Roy” with “Kobe” and most of the comments from threads about this would look identical to a Lakers blog post circa 2006.
there are some things so terrible that they shouldn't be said
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Move it!
“Roy will have to change and play more off the ball with movement.”
Take lessons from Rudy. IMHO, this whole team – with the exception of Rudy – needs more movement on offense.
Duct tape makes you smart.
by TTRocks on Sep 22, 2009 8:28 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Webster is decent off the ball
Especially when he’s playing the 2.
"HA HA HA HA HA
I'm not laughing, I'm just listing the five ugliest Blazers ever."
- rockingharder
WEAK ATTEMPT AT SARCASM, BRO!
Just kidding. I believe it was during the PHO 52 point game, that Brandon asked Blake if he should settle down a little, and Blake told him to keep scoring.
I think Brandon is right, he should look to move and pass a little more, but his teammates should also not freeze. This has nothing to do with selfishness, it is just the nature of what happens when a good offensive player gets the ball. The entire arena freezes. The team as a whole (most notably the coaches) needs to figure out how to deal with it, not just Brandon.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
This is why I hate Brandon's game
The entire arena freezes.
A guy who has the ability to freeze the entire arena should average way more than 50.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
He's Mr. Snow Mizer
you’d have trouble scoring 50 too, if you were playing on skates
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Good question, funny poll answers
After reading Mortimer’s reply, I think I would like to change my answer to “Nate’s playbook”. When you have someone who can score efficiently like Roy, it is easy to have everyone just sort of watch him. I don’t really think it’s Brandon’s fault (I know you’re not saying that it is). I think we needed Brandon to take control in the past, and now we need a better offensive flow. This will be better for Brandon and everyone else.
I think the biggest beneficiary to a more fluid offense will be LaMarcus. He is so capable at scoring from different points on the floor. I can only imagine how well he will do when there is a lot of ball movement and he is able to get a 1/2 step in front of his defender for some inside looks. That will also give him a lot more looks at the stripe because a lot of fouls come from quick ball rotation that opens up the middle and exposes opponents’ big men.
I'm going to come up with the best line here ever, something really clever.
I stopped reading at the line....
Compared to Lebron who is a pass first score second player.
But then I checked the numbers. Lebron had 587 AST last year- good for a whopping EIGHTH in the league, and he’s a freaking SF. The rest of the top 19 play PG, and #20 is Andre Iguodala. Roy had exactly 400 AST. Of course, LeBron had Mo Williams and Delonte West and Wally Sczczczerbiak and Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao to whom he could pass the ball, while Roy had…. umm, yeah. Aldridge.
That’s not to say that if the Blazers offense wasn’t good, it’s just that we had excellent results for Roy only averaging 5.1 AST per game. If he is a little bit of a ball-hog, great. Maybe Lebron should be more like B-Roy?
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Aldridge/Outlaw/Rudy/Blake > Williams/West/Sczb/Ilgauskas
"HA HA HA HA HA
I'm not laughing, I'm just listing the five ugliest Blazers ever."
- rockingharder
Sure
Maybe this year. But Roy doesn’t regularly play with either Rudy or Outlaw.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Lebron James' assist percentage: 38.0
Brandon Roy’s assist percentage: 25.4
Like it or not, Lebron is a great distributor who often defers to his teammates.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
Since when is Roy just good on offense?
by collectiveshane on Sep 22, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions
Since ever. He has a reputation for only working half-hearted on defense, which is party true.
He can be a lock-down defender in bursts (as Anthony and Johnson can attest), but he is also taking plays off and coasting. He might have good reasons for this, but even the coaches have hinted at wanting more from him on that end.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
Brandon Roy co-wrote "The Fountainhead" with Ayn Rand.
Whatever
thetinfoil@gmail.com
by TheTinfoil on Sep 22, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
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