Quick was just on with Wheels
Here's a couple of Jason's comments (these are not direct quotes)
Martell Webster is a 'sleeping star' he will win the starting SF job in camp and Batum will be the reserve. Outlaw will play mostly at backup PF
Ostertag told the Phoenix media that he has serious interest from an NBA team and is coming back to Portland tomorrow to give the Blazers a 2nd look
Juwan Howard is known as a very good locker room vet, but he hasn't flown in to PDX yet
(they should have the podcast up, shortly)
over 2 years ago
two4larue
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Yeah Webster.
Come on Webby, you were my pick for breakout player on the Blazers last year and I wouldn’t mind waiting a year for it.
"The playoffs now are my grind. My grind for a championship,'' Roy said. "Whatever needs to be done to get there I'm gonna do it.''
If Webster plays more minutes than Batum next year, its going to be a huge mistake.
by jksnake99 on Sep 11, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
or alternatively, a miracle.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Sep 11, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
There's too many variables.
Webster is still just 22. Batum is even younger. Either one of them could be much better or worse than they were in the past. Making definitive statements about the starting SF spot is pointless.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 11, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope.
Webster is peaked out at the ripe old age of 22. It’s impossible for him to get any better. He’s already past his prime. All down hill from here.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 11, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to get younger then!
Only guys 20 or younger improve with age.
I’ll be happy with either dude winning the starting spot and 4th quarter minutes, if it isn’t Rudy in at SF in the 4th quarter. His small body on SFs, or forcing Roy to guard them, would be tough a lot of nights though.
The spot is Batum’s to lose, so if he DOES lose it, we got reason to rejoice. It means Martell came back and is playing like we hoped he could.
They won’t force feed Martell into the starting spot for no reason, I believe.
Morty
Right
Whoever gets the minutes will be the guy who earns it.
So what’s to worry, here? It’s all good. We know that Nic is going to bring excellent defense. We don’t yet know what Martell will bring, but if the total package means he takes minutes from Nic, we’re in phenomenal shape.
Each of them will get enough PT to show what he’s got, and to contribute. Situations may determine which gets the most run from game to game.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
I agree.
I think Webster has this weird stigma because he came straight out of high-school. He seems older than he is, but really, even Roy wasn’t near the same level at 22. People should give Marty Web a little break.
I love Batum. I would put my money on him in the long term, but it’s entirely possible Webster takes the spot in the short term. Maybe even the next couple years.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 12, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
you have more faith in Nate than me
I like Nate in general, but I’m not sure he realizes what he has in Batum.
He started the silly kid almost every game
And says he’s the front runner to start again.
Most coaches don’t turn to the 20 year old raw French kid to start if they wanna win. They try to make it work with the guy they know, Outlaw. I think he seems to know what he has in Batum, and was quick to respond to it being made evident to all of us that Batum was special.
On very few occasions has Nate played to wrong guy— Frye over Joel in the 4th is a good example. He’s been good at going with whoever works better.
If Batum is clearly better than Webster, I think Batum will get the bulk of the minutes. I like Martell and his attitude and approach to the game, but long term my money is on Batum at SF. But if Martell is better, it’s only a good thing, because I don’t think Batum will get worse.
Batum starts, Martell and Rudy take over the scoring punch for the bench that a traded Outlaw makes us need, and everyone is golden. Until lack of minutes get itchy next season.
Morty
Let's be honest here,
even if you swapped out Batum for an 18 year old rookie Martell, how many wins does that really cost us? 3 or 4? Batum did a great job while he was in, but if I had to order the Blazers in terms of their contributions to our record last season, Nic probably wouldn’t be higher than 8th (Roy, Aldridge, Blake, Przy, Outlaw, Oden, Rudy). Given that Webster is 22 and Batum is 20, they’re functionally the same age. The guy who wins the job will play.
It’s not like Nate had any special bias towards Webster when he was healthy anyways.
I would say more than 3-4
rookie Martell was truly terrible, particularly on defense.
More to the point, rookie Nic was significantly better than year 3 Martell. Batum is going to close the gap in 3 point shooting (a gap that isn’t as big as many people seem to think) and is better at basically everything else you can do on a basketball court.
If Martell comes back way better than he ever was pre-injury, then that obviously changes things. I consider that unlikely.
The first half of the year
Nic played very much like a rookie. He played good defense, but was pretty much non-existent on offense in many games.
He improved as the year went along, but he was not really starter quality for much of the year.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
if anything that makes my point stronger
Despite starting off poorly on the offensive end, he still managed to put up an overall season that I believe was better than any season Webster or Outlaw has ever had. That means that by the end of the season, he had proved himself as a very legitimate starter, for a 54 win team, at age 20.
That depends on your point :)
If your point is that Nic is well ahead of Martell, or where Martell was his first year, it supports your point.
If your point is (which I thought it was) that it would have cost us a lot of wins to swap in first year Martell for first year Nic, I’m not sure it would have. Of course, I wasn’t watching closely Martell’s first year (I was on sabbatical from being a Blazer fan until they cleaned out the rubbish). But Nic had a lot of games where he just wasn’t very good, so I don’t think Martell playing would have cost us.
And then, later, as Nic stepped up his game, we had a lot of really strong wins where I suspect we would have won anyway.
Martell’s problem has always been mental. The athleticism and the shooting touch are there, always have been. I thought last year was his breakout year. It may take some time for him to really get everything back, but if the mental aspect has been sorted out, we could have a superb player on our hands.
Nic? I have no doubt he’s going to be a superb player. Two years ago, SF was a weak spot on this team, with two guys who were adequate backups. We may well have two quality starters at the position now. And both of them are young enough to be here forever. I hope Nate gives them both enough time to develop, even if it means 24 mpg each.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
rookie Martell really didn't look like an NBA player at all
He was just as bad as early season Nic on offense, and was a truly atrocious defensive player.
Nic definitely was better than Martell as a rook
No question there.
It’ll be cool if now-Martell is better than sophomore-Batum. That is the battle I’ll be watching and waiting for, over Dre vs Blake and Oden vs Joel (Dre and Oden will win both).
M—
Yes, I think the SF thing could be very interesting
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
And also because team politics could settle the others more than not
Andre could start because of his experience and contract and reputation; Oden could start because he’s the future of the franchise and we NEED him to be able to start and play big minutes to go deep someday.
But Martell and Batum is free of those somewhat off-the-court pressures that could help decide it one way or another. I’m sure both got lots of supporters on the team, many of whom simply rooting for them both over taking a side one way or another.
It will be the battle that will most CLEARLY be “best man wins”.
Mortimer
At the same time
I’d say that Martell would have to really come out and TAKE the starting spot away from Batum, because Batum did such a good job fitting in and playing defense— for a 20 year old raw Euro rookie, anyways.
Batum has a leg up on Marty, but it’s anyone’s race. Webster just has to really PROVE it is his to win it, more than Batum does.
If they seem equal, I would say Batum and his defensive speciality and our pre-existing 1st unit offensive firepower means Martell comes off the bench.
M—
If they seem equal
it perhaps depends on where Nate wants 3 point shooting (edge Martell) and where he wants defense (edge Nic). If Andre starts, Nate may want Martell’s 3 point shooting in the starting unit, it the players are roughly equal.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
He is as far as deciding who to really establish as part of the core for the future
But being the only other player on the perimeter who could create his own shot, Outlaw was not without value at certain times of the game.
He was inefficient, is a bad rebounder, a bad defender, but he can create his own shot. Blake, Rudy, Sergio, LMA (except when in the post) can not. Bayless can, but we weren’t going to play him in the 4th last year obviously.
Outlaw’s ability to create for himself and score is becoming undervalued right now. I want Batum much more for the future and think he plays much more winning basketeering, but for last season, with our roster, we DID need Outlaw’s ability to create something out of nothing.
This year, with Andre Miller, and hopeful improvements from Martell, Batum (he’s doing some creating in Euro-play, but those defenses are circumspect), Rudy, LMA, hopefully we don’t need someone whose only skill is creating their own shot to play big minutes. Outlaw did hurt us defensively and on the glass.
But, we needed what he does do well. Last year, I agree with playing Outlaw over Batum when we needed buckets.
Mortimer
Those defenses are circumspect?
Trying to be circumspect here, I was just wondering if that was really the word you wanted….
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
It was almost 5am
I got no idea WHAT word I wanted there.
The defenses ain’t looked good-like, is what I meant.
M—
Ugh.
People have been saying this about Webster for 4 years and he hasn’t done anything to prove he’s worthy of the praise.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
by Arby on Sep 11, 2009 2:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
foot injury, bad timing
about 11.5 months ago MW was looking particulary praiseworthy, Quick remembers this and many observers are seeing the same good stuff from Webster, right now. Can Martell sustain it? Remains to be seen
there’s nothing wrong with having 2 above-average young SFs with slightly different skillsets
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah.
Towards the end of the season it seemed like most people were cautiously optimistic about Webster and not particularly excited about Outlaw. His defense looked especially good during the preseason game against Sac-Town and he lost a bunch of weight which should help with his movement.
To me Webster could indeed usurp Batum as the starter. Nothing wrong with that. Both have untapped potential and Batum’s still not nearly the space creator Webster is. It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Quick is saying anything all that crazy.
I would put my money on Webster starting, but I think it’s going to be a tight race.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 11, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
And he looked particularly good
late in the previous season….when he was averaging almost 11 points a game.
All I can say is having Batum and Webster push each other will only benefit the Blazers.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Sep 11, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
If Martell didn't have that "lost season" his Sophomore year
People would be higher on him.
He played well his 3rd season; he basically played how I expected him to play his 2nd season. 11ppg, rebounded well, hit shots, drove every once in a while, but the big improvement was his defense. He used his big body well.
It was a shame we didn’t get to see what his hard work could produce in his 4th season. It was just one game, in a blow out, against the KINGS, but him and Rudy looked good together.
I’m cautiously optimistic. If Martell can be good, he will be good. He works too hard and cares too much not to.
Mmmmmmmmmmmortimer
but Quick doesn't work for the Blazers
unlike Barrett, Rice and Wheels, he has no motivation to “hype” any of the ballplayers
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Quick has always liked Martell, though.
"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.
I remember he was pretty down on him at the end of his 2nd season though
That was a rough year for Marty though, and Quick predicted he’d be traded. I think it was the first and only time a trade prediction by Quick didn’t come true, so it was a pretty historical event.
That was when the “uncoachable, moody, etc” talk about Martell started. Quick said it in one of his Quick chats.
I miss Quick chats! NBA SEASON, START.
Morty
yep
Martell was almost traded to the Knicks in the Randolph deal, but Penn found the trade exception and Fred Jones was inserted in Webster’s place
Then Marty came back that fall with a new attitude and has been no problem ever since. Some NBA kids take a lot longer to “grow up”…perhaps Roy talked some sense into his fellow Seattle-ite, that summer?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
he's just building Webster up
so he can call him “underwhelming”
by SonsofShawnKemp on Sep 11, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still don't believe the hype about Martell.
I think best case, he’ll be a starting quality player once he’s fully recovered. The only way he’ll be a ‘star’ is if we give him 15 FGA per game so he can average 18+ ppg, since ‘stars’ are commonly judged by ppg alone.
Still, if he’s good enough to compete with Nic for the starting job, that’s good enough news. The hype is unnecessary and potentially harmful.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I don't know.
He had 15 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and a block in 26 minutes against Sacramento during the preseason. He only took 8 shots. He looked like a completely different player. Slashing, attacking the hoop, playing great defense. He looked healthy, fit and confident. It was just one game, but it confirmed everything people were saying about Webster during training camp.
It should also be noted that Webster’s PPG, 3p%, and FG% have gone up every season while his usage has remained about the same. He’s probably not close to his ceiling and although I wouldn’t dare to predict he becomes an all-star I don’t think it’s crazy to see him becoming a very, very valuable role player.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 11, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I could see that.
I didn’t see the preseason game, but my personal expectations are tempered to take into account that I don’t think he’ll be 100% basketball-wise right out of the gate.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I haven't seen Martell in action much.
I’m just going to keep my hopes down and not judge him until he’s fully recovered and has been playing for a while. Still, I really hope you’re right! We could have the 2nd best SF rotation in the league (after the Cavs).
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Yeah, I think it all depends on his foot.
I think the Rockets have a better SF rotation. Ariza and Battier is pretty awesome.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 13, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Ostertag?
I just thought that was for fun. If the Blazers sign Ostertag, it will be more shocking than anything that has happened in the last 10 years.
RT: more shocking than anything that has happened in the last 10 years.
areful now, that covers a whole lot of ground that should be left “uncovered” (or vice versa)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
do you think he’d be on the squad to use as a dunk contest prop? who can jump over him from the furthest distance? who can knock him over the quickest? who can make him throw a ball at them from half court?
Life is about growth. People are not perfect when they're 21 years old. - Bill Walton
I'm not sure
If they sign him then I think it is a good sign. When the Blazers were good, they always had an over the hill center rotting on the end of the bench.
right now I own no current Blazer jerseys
I have T-Shirt jerseys but no actual jerseys. If we sign Ostertag I will buy his jersey.
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on Sep 12, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
sweet
Michael Jordan is overrated. The only thing he ever did in HD was underwear commercials and a hall of fame speech.
Anybody with a Fred Flintstone Tattoo
can’t be all bad.
Roy for the win.Hit it! Yes he did!
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 13, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless you just got to Portland
you probably know who is the better shooter. It’s a good problem to have; an excellent shooter and decent defender versus an excellent defender and decent shooter. Yeah, a very nice problem to have.
I hope whatever happens
That the bashing doesn’t turn on Martell. I’ve accepted Outlaw as the sacrificial anode for that.
How can you bash a good kid like Martell?
Really, you have to let yourself sink pretty low for a couple of minutes until your fellow Bedgers remind you’re being an idiot.
Here’s a situational lineup that would make coaches D’antoni and Nelson delerious:
LMA
Batum
Webster
Roy
Miller
A flying machine from the late 21st century.
People bash on a good kid like Travis all the time
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Travis has a lot of game
he’s just got to use it as Nate sees fit. Whenever he’s in the game during the last few minutes I feel confident we have a chance to score the last points – the winning points. Am I the only Bedger that watches TO sometimes with jaw dropped because he has the most unusual style? Actually Rudy may have the most unorthodox style on the team, but together they give the fans absolutely every penny’s worth.
TO's athletic abilities are incredible, and he can shoot too
It’s his shot choice and shortcomings in the hard work/hustle areas (defense and rebounding) that hurt him. Unfortunately, the longer he goes without improving those areas, the less likely they are to change.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
poor Batum, defending Carlos Boozer
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Webster's got about 1000 missed rotations on defense, to go
before he should be catching Trout’s level of flack
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Everyone thinks Outlaw will be gone at the trade deadline and practically everone loves Batum
Blazers fans tend to hate the guy who’s getting playing time that they think their favorite player should get.
Heck even jksnake99, who normally would gladly trade almost anyone on the roster for a better player from another team stated above, that if Webster gets more playing time than Batum, then it will be a huge mistake.
If Webster’s Per’s aren’t significantly better than Batum’s, and Webster start, then I think the angry mob will converge on Martell.
Michael Jordan is overrated. The only thing he ever did in HD was underwear commercials and a hall of fame speech.
by tominhawaii on Sep 12, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
ahh, the "backup quarterback syndrome"
Fans tend to “lighten up” on the starters when the team is doing well, but when a guy comes out flat in the playoffs the “get rid of this guy” bandwagon gets more crowded
I can see why you might be concerned about Batum “fanboys” bagging on Webster, if he was getting more PT than Nic. But I don’t see how Travis’ BBIQ deficiencies are paralleled by Martell, so I’m not as worried about Webster becoming the next target of general fan discontent
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Martell Webster's issues aren't BBIQ, but rather no refined skills and talent deficiencies.
Webster has poor handles and can’t create his own shot offensively, while he’s also way too slow defensively to guard many opposing wings.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
No refined skills?
He has poor handles yes, but he’s probably still the best shooter on the team (No offense Rudy) and easily the second best perimeter defender IMHO. He was laterally average in speed before he dropped a bunch of weight. That was a small concern although he looked a million times improved in the preseason game against Sactown.
He was already a pretty good role player in his third season. With his FG%, 3p%, and PPG improving every year I don’t see why anyone would assume he’s anywhere near peaking.
by Nick Van Excellent on Sep 13, 2009 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand the no handles thing given Martell.
Martell handles the ball better than a SF we used to have who had a pretty good career for us,maybe you remember him. Jerome Kersey.
Roy for the win.Hit it! Yes he did!
by We-B-Dunkin on Sep 13, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It just dawned on me
I think Blake will get most the hate this season after Outlaw departs, because Batum will play. Blake is keeping Bayless on the bench.
by tominhawaii on Sep 13, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Wrong
Bayless is obviously second in line for hate, then Blake.
Well, unless Bayless has a good game or Blake has a bad one. Then maybe you will be right.
But there will still be some hate at the SF position, especially if Webster gets a lot of PT. Because there will be a lot of people who are sure Nic is better, no matter what Nate thinks.
Unless Martell’s PT is low. Then, everyone will be sure Nic is getting too much time.
I hate Dean. Monty should be second in command. And it is about time that KP was put out to pasture and a real star like Penn got his chance.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Player "hate" is a tough thing to predict
It is usually connect to something that s done (or not done) out on the court, and because it’s been months since the Blazer played an actual game, it’s hard to generate a lot of ill feelings towards a current player
If anything, I expect there to be a lot of speculation about Steve not returning in 2010, and we’ll see his name in numerous trade proposals (along with Trav, and I know you can’t wait to read ’em!) because of his expiring contract. My take is that Nate/KP love SB too much to let him walk, and SB is content with PDX and will take a fair offer to stick around…regardless of how Bedgers may feel about his play
I’d rather not have to “hate on” any Blazer. But they all have to “make sense” (from a team perspective) and when one of them doesn’t really “fit” anymore, then it’s time to go looking for a better piece to the puzzle
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
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