Do not let the referee's determine Odens minutes this year

by Planet29 on Aug 9, 2009 12:59 PM PDT

It seems it has been the only way to go since the game began over a 100 years ago, your big man picks up two early fouls and out he comes. Thats standard coaching 101 you are not going to lose one of your best players to early foul trouble, your going to need him when the game is on the line at the end. In the case of Oden I think this strategy shoud change as long as he is playing well leave him in no matter how many early fouls he picks up. Say you play him 8 minutes in the 1st & 3rd quarters and the last 6 minutes of the 2nd & 4th, as long as he is playing well he plays those minutes. If he fouls out in the first half or even quarter so be it the rest of the team will take it from there. I think it would help him to get into the flow of the game knowing he is not coming out due to some ticky tack foul he just picked up. Playing short periods of time coming in and out of the lineup due to foul problems I think its hard to get anything going. Its better to get one solid half and playing your best than a full game of just being there and going through the moves. The blazers are very deep and can afford to make a move like this, they will have a hard time finding minutes for everyone this year anyway. On nights when he does foul out early it would give some much needed playing time to some of the bench players. The blazers were 14-7 last year without Oden and 13 of those games were against teams with winning records so if he does foul out of a few games early I think we will survive. There is always the chance he will cut down on his fouls as his learning of the NBA game progresses and I am sure he will as the blazers look forward to some NBA championship rings in the future.

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i agree with a twist

i feel like coaches are WAY too hasty to bench someone because of “foul trouble.” then before you know it, the other team makes a little run when there really isnt much precedenct for benching that player.

with oden, i dont think his fouling rate will be that high… especially when comparing from his second year to his rookie. he was tired a lot and committed bad fouls while having not played basketball in a long time. now that he was some experience and lost some weight in addition to performing well at the USA mini-camp, i dont think fouls will be that big of a problem. like 4 per game while playing 28-30 minutes. not a big deal for this year.

BUT! if for some reason the fouling problem persists, then we should adopt the strategy u spoke of. HANDS OFF…just let the kid play for god sakes. even if he fouls out, who cares? the blazers are a great team and can play well without him. now, obviously they are going to better as he gets better, but saving a guy from foul trouble is not how u improve that guy. he comes back in basically still in “foul trouble” and is hesitant to play the kind of defense we all know he is capable of. so ur basically shooting his development and the team’s defense when he’s in..in the foot. not to say hes a bad defender when mindful of fouls, but he is clearly affected.

he will be fine and not have a fouling problem. but if so, LET THE KID PLAY.

by saveourbluths on Aug 9, 2009 5:26 PM PDT reply actions

I was thinking that last year also

I don’t know if it’s possible for Mr. Sonic to manage some wild coaching like that, but it would be nice. I’m sure there is some long standing argument against the idea however, and I’m sure that Idea makes sense also.

by twggyy on Aug 9, 2009 5:27 PM PDT reply actions

That's what I was screaming at the TV last year,

leave him in for X amount of min.’s, Do not let the Refs dictate.

by prof.mike on Aug 9, 2009 8:14 PM PDT reply actions

I agree provided ...

he doesn’t become frustrated when he picks up quick fouls and then make more fouls as a result of that frustration. i.e. it depends on how the player handles it. But I don’t think you know that without trying it.

In the first half of the season I would try giving him more rope with two fouls in the first quarter, or after his 4th foul in the 3rd quarter, if he is otherwise doing positive things on court. He needs to develop some flow and confidence in his overall game by playing more continuous minutes, and if he fouls out prematurely a few times, then consider it a good lesson for him. Then I’d reappraise the situation in the second half of the season based on his progress and how much his presence (or lack of presence if he fouls out early) could make a difference down the stretch of close games. i.e. in the first half of the season you can afford a little development time for someone as important as Greg, but in the second half of the season you need to assess what you have (at least for this year) and start preparing everyone for the playoffs.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 9, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions

This is a good idea.

I think it works for us because it’s not like it’s a huge dropoff going from GO to Joel in the 4th quarter. There’s not much downside.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 9, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions

This was a HUGE isuse last season.

I’m ready for Basketball.

by Sabonis4Ever on Aug 9, 2009 10:13 PM PDT reply actions

Maybe I am old school or something...

I don’t understand why people have a problem with a coach, in this case Nate, pulling a player when he gets into foul trouble. The idea is that the minutes you get from a player when they are not in foul trouble will be more productive minutes. If Oden picks up 2 fouls in 2 minutes, he isn’t going to play the same way for the next 6-8 minutes he is in there. He will be hesitant and opposing coaches will send his man to the post and run at him until he picks up his 3, 4, 5, and 6th fouls.

Some players are able to avoid picking up that next foul without backing off too much. (Drexler was excellent at playing hard and within himself when he had 3 fouls in the first half.) But most of these players are peremeter guys who aren’t fighting guys on the block every time down. It is about knowing your players and last year, Oden was not going to be on the floor long if Nate had kept him in. Taking a player out also allows the coaches to point out what that guy might be doing to pick up fouls or what he needs to do to stay out of fouls.

I guess most coaches would rather have a player available to play if and when they need them instead of letting them foul out in the first half. I would have to agree with them.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Aug 9, 2009 11:57 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

well said

If you ever hear of someone punching out a girl scout and stealing her Samoas, it was me
- Mortimer

by Clevelander among roses on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Rec

I would just add that Joel is unlikely to be able to play the entire second half productively. If Greg is in foul trouble, but can let Joel sit for a few minutes in the second half, that is better than having Greg foul out in the first half and have to go to Plan C (LMA at center, Travis at PF) for parts of the second half.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Aug 10, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions

and I think nearly everyone would agree that you describe the normal case

But I like the idea of giving Greg at least a little more latitude. For one thing, we don’t suffer a huge drop off if Joel gets 30 minutes in a single given game. The point of this is to let GO get more comfortable and just play basketball without overthinking or doubting himself or whatever.

That said, with the positive reports re:fouling out of USA camp, I’m not too worried either way.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 10, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't think he was ready for that latitude last season

and I don’t think post players really get that type of latitude generally speaking. It is just too easy to either draw fouls on big men or take advantage of how they have to play when they are in foul trouble.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Aug 12, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions

My problem wasn't with Greg sitting when he'd picked up quick fouls

it was with the number of times he would get pulled with 4 or 5 fouls and never get put back in the game

Able but unwilling

by 1badbadger on Aug 10, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions

I think if the result of not putting him back in was more losses than wins...

then the argument to get him back in the game would be stronger.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Aug 12, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions

if he learned how to play D, he wouldnt spend so much time on the pine

by robi s on Aug 10, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions

Players with foul trouble get antsy too

They don’t like to foul out. Even without the threat of the hook, Oden might get frustrated and timid with 4 fouls in the 2nd quarter becoming an ineffective player.

That said, I’m all for a slower hook from Nate.

by matthewcc on Aug 11, 2009 5:41 AM PDT reply actions