Young Guys and Trouble
by Dave on Aug 31, 2009 1:06 AM PDT
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PrintOne of the stories I've been following with interest this off-season is the saga of Michael Beasley. His promising rookie season (14 points, 5.5 rebounds per game) was bracketed by a series of whispers about his conduct issues, mutterings which have blossomed into full-on reports over the summer. The latest news is that he's been undergoing CBA-mandated drug rehab.
I'll admit to you that I've grown up with this league, as many of you have. I'm hardly a babe in the woods when it comes to the NBA lifestyle. We've heard enough reports about players we treasure treading the edge to understand that pressure can get to anyone. Getting closer to the team gives you a better glimpse of that reality. You'd need blinders and a hood to miss the swarms of opportunities these guys have to jump into hedonism, and that's just in public venues. Your imagination can probably fill in the private opportunities. Random rumors of this or that indiscretion are nothing to jump at. In fact they're all but predictable.
At a certain point, though, you can see a career turning south. As I've gotten older...uhhh...I mean more experienced the radar for such things has sharpened a bit while my tolerance has decreased in like measure. When you're twenty it seems like so many possibilities are open to you that any given outcome is almost a matter of chance. It also seems like you have so much life (so many lives?) to live that you can tread multiple paths and still come out whole enough to find one you'll be happy to live with. Add a decade or two of life and you start to realize that neither is true. Once your life starts flowing down a certain channel it's far more difficult to get out and find a new one than it was to fall in. You don't often get do-overs either. You blink and what seems like a momentary decision has become a binding habit. The more you struggle to get back the farther it drags you along. You wish you could smack that twenty-year old who thought he had all the choices and time in the world. You wish you could get him to realize that five or six years in anybody's life is a huge chunk, especially when you consider that consequences usually outlast actions. Five or six years in a field where the average career lasts about four is more than forever.
It always saddens me to see an NBA player getting off on the wrong foot. The script is predictable. A young guy--perhaps predisposed to counterproductive behavior, perhaps taken by surprise by the league and its lifestyle--starts falling into self-destruction. You see the actions. You hear the denials:
"That's not really me."
"He's only twenty. Give him time."
"He's so nice in so many ways. He just has this one issue."
"He's got such talent. He's going to succeed and then get his life straight."
"He gives his money and time to charity."
"He's turned it around. He wasn't to be a spokesperson for the issue and an example to kids."
"What he's doing isn't really that bad."
Meanwhile you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. And it almost always does.
You want the truth? Nothing is iron-clad, but it's really hard for guys to reform in this league once they've gone a bad direction. The opportunities are going to be there as long as they have the fame and money. The support system isn't good enough because that's not the primary job of the people the players interact with every day. And really, what incentive do these guys have to change? What consequence is strong enough when the $300,000 you made this month is going to be followed by $300,000 more next month and every one after like clockwork for the next three years no matter what? If a guy is able to think of long-range drawbacks and balance those against short-term desire he's usually able to stay out of trouble in the first place. What's going to turn him around if both vision and inducement are missing? I'm not trying to slight these young men either. I'm not entirely sure I would pass that test. In reality I'm pretty good at keeping a healthy diet precisely because I don't work at Baskin-Robbins. With eight gallons of Peanut-Butter Chocolate staring me in the face every night I think I'd have to throw away both my dignity and the scale.
Even feeling that empathy, though, it's hard for me to invoke much besides practicality at this point. Maybe I've seen and heard too many stories. When a player gets into this situation I believe their parents, friends, agent, and all of their support system ought to work overtime to get them back on track. If it takes mom and dad moving in, older brother going on road trips, nightly calls to the agent, curfew from the coach...do it. But the rest of us are almost forced to be a little cold. Responsibility and reward go hand-in-hand in high-profile, high-demand jobs like this. Invoking one while neglecting the other is intolerable. Unless the situation is rectified soon, we have to move on to people who can fulfill those responsibilities. Mourning for a career wasted is the only recourse we have, and we're not even allowed that luxury for long. There are yet games to be played and players to be followed.
It may sound cold, but we probably need to have less tolerance for the situation than we do. You'll always find fans, and I believe a few people in front offices, who will be willing to give second and third and fourth chances provided the talent is there. Everybody deserves a second, of course, but it ought to come with an asterisk. Any extra violations, any more chances needed, and we're probably wasting our time.
Name me the last player who started out with serious issues, turned it around, and actually blossomed into the player everyone thought he would be. Talent is usually the key to multiple chances, but name me the ultra-talented guy who started out poorly and then later proved himself safe to build your team around, which is ostensibly what you get young talent for. I'm not asking you to name me players who started out bad and then turned out to be good guys later in life. I'm not asking you to list players who reformed and now help others in need. Those are excellent people and I admire their work greatly. They deserve enormous respect. But I'm trying to be really practical here in a basketball-only sense. Name me the guy who showed up in the papers month after month for all the wrong reasons early in his career and then made his franchise a champion or even an enduring contender. I'm hard-pressed to think of one. And even if you can, he's going to be dwarfed under the deluge of players who never got it or who got it too late.
I'm trying hard not to be cynical. In fact there's a portion of my heart that's rebelling against what I'm saying. But I think I'm on pretty solid ground anyway. The truth is, were I a GM I wouldn't touch these guys with a ten-foot pole. If somebody in my organization were having issues I would do everything in my power to get them as much help as they wanted. That's the decent, human thing to do. Some things transcend basketball. But there's no way I'd feel comfortable hitching my star to them and there's no way I would acquire them from another team if they weren't mine in the first place. And that's no matter what talent they had. It's a recipe for disappointment and unmet expectations.
I am reminded again how glad I am that the Blazers seem to have passed this phase, as individuals and as an organization. You never say never, of course, but as a whole the guys on this team seem to have their heads screwed on straight. It does make a difference, despite the finger-in-ears "La La La!" stance we fans take when our own players are in doubt. I remember all of the justifications too well. How many of those players we tried to justify and excuse ended up making solid contributions, not just for the Blazers, but anywhere?
I hope Michael Beasley turns it around. I hope he goes on to a long, productive career. But I'm going to wait to see it before I believe it. If we do see it, we should all rejoice. But I don't think we should hold our collective breaths. As sad as it is to say, I'm not sure the NBA is the right environment for that kind of thing to happen and I despair of it ever being so.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Interesting topic
I hate to give up on people,I have a couple of good friends who are ex fools but they had to do it themselves. If you have been an NBA prospect since the 10th grade then you have had your ass kissed every day at a time in life where having having everything handed to you stunts the normal school of hard knocks maturing process and gives a sense of entitlement,why grow up if you think your Peter Pan?
by southern oregon on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 AM PDT reply actions
appreciate the effort in the article
But you’re missing the obvious, here.
The fans are what enable NBA culture. Those salaries do not come out of the blue. If you buy a shirt, subscribe to cable, go to games, or, yes read the now advertising laden Blazer’s Edge, you are supporting and, in effect, signing off on the bizarre corporate culture that is the NBA.
Perhaps this explains the “La la la” effect you describe. Uncomfortable to consider the moral shortcomings of something you so avidly enjoy.
Fundamentally, if one has a conscience, and the culture’s depravity is onerous, you need to turn the TV off, and tune in to real lives.
The beauty of basketball can be enjoyed in non-professional leagues as well.
But if you choose to participate, leave the moralizing at the door, because it’s on you, not them.
by Blazin' on Aug 31, 2009 1:54 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
My question is can you really stereotype the whole league for the few who are struggling?
I spend my time and see my ads for the players I respect. You are correct that that contributes to the wealth of the system which then also contains some knuckleheads. But it seems too much generalizing to say I caused the young man’s problems.
by lee3022 on Aug 31, 2009 3:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
An interesting observation.
When the Blazers fell into this hole, that was certainly an option that many (including myself) chose. But I don’t think I would place the blame on the fans that remained. Being a fan doesn’t mean you approve of everything that happens. Life is more complicated, more grey than that.
It’s also more grey than that on the other side as well. Generalities never quite get the whole picture. Still, that doesn’t mean generalities are useless either. Sure there may be exceptions at some point, but I wouldn’t want the cornerstone player of my team to be someone who fell under the generality of a “bad character” guy again. We’ve had that. We’ve been disappointed.
That doesn’t mean he has to be squeaky clean, or loved by children everywhere. I just don’t want the most important player on my team being someone who can’t even keep himself in order.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
What? Shifting responsibility takes away their freedom to choose
Sure, I believe people are destined, but snorting white powdery substances is not the necessary outcome of a “bizarre corporate culture.” It’s a failure in constructing a person with the tenacity and discipline to excel in a “bizarre corporate” environment.
The fan sets the stage and makes it possible, but it’s incumbent on the player to achieve personhood. No fan can do that for them.
There is no way in which you can absolutely sever the connection of normative belief from fanhood. Basketball as an entertainment form does not contravene conventional moral norms, and the many mini-mission statements (PSAs) of the NBA lead the fan to expect a modicum of conventional behavior. The NBA aggressively markets its moral characteristics. If the fan is at fault, it due to false advertising.
That said, it’s a stretch to regard the fan as responsible for drug use (whether you consider that a moral transgression or not, I don’t). They play an integral part in the constitution of the environment, but that’s it. Their role is not causal. The fan merely creates the options.
Furthermore, since the fan uses their property to constitute the environments, it should also give them a sense of entitlement to the institution. That feeling gets absurdly exaggerated at times, but without it the whole enterprise would fail. That a fan expects players to behave in such ways, or simply hopes that they behave in such ways is a fundamental feature of the game.
If all you’re trying to say is that it’s a part of the NBA that some players will have this sort of lifestyle, then great. Nothing to argue about there. That said, because someone doesn’t want players to live in such ways does not mean they should stop patronizing the NBA. There’s a wide path to travel in the NBA and it’s completely justified for a fan to want and hope a player travels to the side he likes better.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Aug 31, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
such thoughtful responses
redeems my faith in Blazer’s Edge! I guess my point is that Rock-stardom (and that’s what The NBA promotes/creates) distorts the Rock Star beyond recognition. That does not mean these kids would not choose it. But it does mean that they are unrecognizable to us normal folks.
What fans don’t realize, is that these athletes view keeping up their public image the same way as working on their cross-over dribble. A part of the job. It tells us nothing about their character, though, and nor should it. It is none of our business what is in the hearts of strangers.
Thus, evaluating them morally seems quite naive to me. The way the system of Rock-Stardom works is to castigate and bring down the Rock star, thus creating more salacious appetite in the entertainment consumer. Been through the checkout stand at the Safeway in the last 30 years?
This, to me, is much more reprehensible than smoking some dope or having a bout of infidelity. Taking pleasure at another’s difficulty is lousier than harming yourself.
And so I choose not to participate in this ruse, even as measuredly as Dave does.
Interesting Topic
1. We don’t know his problems. At this point it’s all speculation. We’ve been told Beasley has been planning this for weeks, but outside of that we know nothing.
2. Family. Normally, the well-adjusted of us would think this would be a positive. I get the feeling that it’s not that way for him. Add a few kids, a crazy mom, a question mark as a baby momma and an overzealous dad and you’ve got yourself pretty much no support system. He might have made some stupid mistakes when he was super-young that amounted to burning a few bridges but clearly his life reaches beyond that. Family, as most of us understand it to be, does not exist for him.
3. Lots of Money Fast. Getting into debt is easy when you’ve never had to manage money yourself. Beasley has never seen this kind of money before. Coming from nothing, he’s going to want to help his whole family out, even if it’s unreasonable.. That’s just not possible on a rookie contract. But I would guess he’s spent beyond his means because he’s wanted to help his family out.
4. Social Standing. Of course he has people whispering into his ear what he should/should not be doing. We all do, but in his position it’s magnified. Some of those influences are going to be positive, but many are going to be negative and self-serving. Sifting through the BS isn’t easy.
I don't think his dad was around
Sadly all too common
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Aug 31, 2009 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Exuses are for .... Well, you know.
It has been estimated that nearly 80% of all males in prison grew up without a father figure. The influence on a father in the home is undeniable. However, I grow frustrated with the exuse people give when they say they had a bad childhood, and therefor they have the right to break the law or violate others’ rights. If someone is abused as a child they have two choices in life as an adult. They can abuse their own children pointing to their own torments in life as a justifiable cause, or they can choose to never do to someone else what was done to them. In the end it’s all about choices, and taking responsibility for your own behavior.
These things help explaing the behavior.
They do not excuse it. But it does give us an insight as a society into ways we can avoid similar behavior in future generations.
I think you over-simplify the problem
being the father of a 1-year old, I can tell you that my son replicates anything that I or his mother do. He has no real sense of right or wrong at his stage of development. If he didn’t have good role models on how to behave, he would grow up thinking that certain unacceptable behavior was very much the norm. By the time he would be old enough to see how other’s lived and recognize the problems of his upbringing, much damage would be already done.
This problem, I feel, is generally more of a societal problem. We tend to overall value our independence which leaves us largely out on our own when the going gets tough. Americans generally do not have as tight knit families as you see in many other countries. This aspect of our culture is probably amplified on the Westcoast as our ancestors, were a self selecting group who moved away from their families to seek out their fortunes. We’ve strayed far from the ideal that it takes a village to raise a child. And single parent child-rearing has great risks assocciated with it, but it can be done succesfully.
I think the NBA is going through a phase a little behind the NFL but on the same track
When the dress code was instigated it helped some of the image problems but it also reminded these young men that they are going to a job and must look the part (true for most of us as well). The suspensions are beginning to become meaningful (a DUI costs a player several hundreds of thousands now). The next step is an indefinite suspension for conduct that brings discredit on the league (I guess that has been done some as well).
I do think this is a relevant topic for us and, in the regard to Blazin’s post above, the league needs us to become more vocal about the league dealing with illegal behavior anywhere. Not staying quiet but speaking out as you have here (not sure what moralizing is) refuses to enable the actions of these few straying players.
I do not pretend to know if Beasley can turn this around (or any player). I take no joy in reading of his difficulties and hope he can overcome them. It does seem much harder while continuing to play and draw large checks.
The NFL gets it
I’d love to see the NBA follow the direction of the NFL. I like to see an organization that is willing to hold its stars responsible even if they are rich and talented. I don’t enjoy seeing anyone suffer but if someone makes bad decisions I don’t think they are eternally entitled to all the benefits of belonging to an organization like the NBA. If I showed up at work and choked my boss or got stoned in the copy room I wouldn’t be welcomed back the next day and I sure wouldn’t get a check the next week! Yet the fans, media, and unions often argue for exactly that. I’m not saying that people don’t deserve a second chance but there should still be repercussions for unacceptable behavior.
I hope Beasley can get turned around before he does serious damage to himself or others. At the same time I hope that someday we see some positive steps like the NFL has taken so the next generation of kids can clearly see what is not acceptable.
Here’s my proposal: the NBA borrows Roger Goodell for a year to deal with kids like Beasley, lay down some new rules, and teach them how to suspend irresponsible players. In exchange, the NBA will install their rookie salary system into the NFL. Oh, and if Crabtree won’t sign a contract he’ll be forced to choose between the Raiders and the Broncos.
You're probably right, the track record for career turnarounds isn't great (can't resist from coming up with a few names)
Chris “Birdman” Andersen is maybe the best recent example of a guy who struggled early on to take hold in the league, when he finally did was derailed by drugs and a bad entourage, and then came back from it. While in some way it helped him become the hard-working player he is today, it definitely has shortened his career. But the league history is littered with guys who couldn’t make it out of such problems especially in the 70s and 80s but also later (Washburn, Tarpley, Michael Ray Richardson, Traylor, Baker …).
Lamar Odom had a lot of troubles early on in his career but overcame them (he was addicted to more than candy). Finally making him so stable in himself and in his support system that he was able to even withstand the loss of one of his kids. And undoubtedly an important franchise player now who might not have harnessed all his skills (he would be Magic Johnson light then) but a lot of them.
John Lucas II was a #1 pick and managed to get a long NBA career (14 seasons) despite an admitted long-standing cocaine and alcohol problem, and voluntarily sought treatment and stayed in that business trying to prevent other athletes from endangering their career after his active time. Reportedly he is now helping Beasley.
Derrick Coleman is doing more with his life after his NBA career than before helping his Detroit neighborhood as an entrepreneur and developer, but as Dave said that doesn’t count from a basketball perspective in the sense that it doesn’t matter anymore to help his teams as a player. And sadly, Beasley is comparable to Coleman in raw skill and perceived lack of real effort to develop it – so far.
It really should be a bigger focus of the players union and the player agents to do everything to keep their clients out of trouble. Though maybe it already is with the better ones, the agent of Ron Artest surrounded him with some great PR people and advisors (women who he seems to listen to more) after his problems and at least got it in check, while still sometimes pounding his head when something dumb comes out. The cousin acting as the gatekeeper is generally a bad idea. The old high school friend might be as well. Even star players like LeBron seem to be surrounded by too many Yes Men who don’t always take the best decisions for him.
Problem is that they have all the financial, status and time resources in the world to get that support system going – from money management to legal advice to training like a pro – but only the smart players take full advantage of it. Regular mandatory seminars and workshops a la the Rookie Orientation Weekend that the players have to visit with their agents might be an option, but again the guys who would benefit most from something like that might just find it another boring burden to sit through.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
by Norsktroll on Aug 31, 2009 3:20 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
None of those guys
became a “guy you could build your team around”.
It seems to have worked well for Travis to have his brother with him when he was starting out.
Guys who have a strong family often have some mechanism in place, and ironically, the guys who have the strong family probably need it less.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
I'd probably listen to women more too.
This is interesting stuff.
What about Barkley/Rodman types who kept their problems but were able to still make a go of it?
I suppose one could say even Wilt had his own lifestyle problems.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Since when is having sex with 10,000 women a problem?
As for Dennis Rodman, someone forgot to tell him that a wedding gown and jock strap should never be worn together. It just ain’t right.
So I don't have a problem?
Hoorah!!!
Well, my point is just that being ‘troubled’ is okay if you keep it contained.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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yup and despite what you say, that jailblazers team was good for a few sesasons. Damon Stoudemire was a knuckle head but he still did good by us.
Bonzi and JR Rider less so, but Sheed did a lot. Not to say they became “franchise players” or anything, but they did decent. I just think it takes a good strong leader to keep them in check. One who has cred and star power. One like Roy or Pippen.
Oh, and Melo—who I hate—has turned it around some. So did AI. I wouldn’t want either on my team but they both went on to have pretty successful careers. Birdman done alright last year too..JR Smith is pretty much a punk but played well too.
The thing is that yes, the number that pan out is low—the odds are stacked against you…but that’s why the price tag drops on those players. Eventually it becomes a gamble that someone in the right situation MUST bite…but once the talent drops or the risks rise so much that they outweigh the reward, the player drops off the NBA map, like Latrell Sprewell.
PS Im all for teams keeping players under said contracts to punish them like Indiana and NY did. No more buyouts! Don’t reward them! AND there should be a clause that the 2nd violation results in something BAD.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
"yup and despite what you say, that jailblazers team was good for a few sesasons"
The jailblazers were a total fail. Character issues meant that they never did anything for the Blazers.
There, now I said it.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I thought of AI
He might be an example. You could build a franchise around him. Philly made it to the Finals that way.
Melo might be one like that, too. But where was Denver before Billups? A mid-level playoff team, but never a contender. You might build a franchise around a talent like Anthony, but only if you have really strong leadership from another source (either the coach or a veteran player).
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Very Interesting
99% of the time I agree with Dave. This is the 1% of the time that I don’t.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m absolutely elated at how much we’ve turned our culture around in recent years. And I’m nowhere near advocating a welcoming of a Starbury-type mentally ill personae into our fold.
However I think we’re still a little too over-sensitive to the “JailBlazers” era.
Perhaps, in retrospect, Rasheed was correct to be upset at Donaghy. He probably could’ve handled it better, but I actually enjoyed that passion.
I am very glad the pendulum is swinging away from the thug spectrum and towards the great character guys we are so lucky to have in this organization.
That said, I don’t think it is completely necessary to have a team full of 100% Choir Boys/Family Men/Gym Rats to be successful on the court.
It’s very likely I’m wrong, I just don’t want to cast the first stone at a young man who can ball very well, yet isn’t my first choice as brother-in-law.
You're right, nothing is iron clad. Because Ron Artest turned it around about as much as a person can. He was the
last guy anyone thought would turn it around. He is becoming an NBA favortie, and we all know he was no saint 5 years ago.
The truth is: Nothing is iron-clad..... hmmmm
isn’t that oxymoronic?
Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour--Ovid
by bow4meow on Aug 31, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing is iron clad because Ron Artest turned it around as much as a person can.... whuh??
I’m not sure about this statement. First of all, Ron Ron stringing together a few seasons of unreprimanded behavior doesn’t qualify by analogy the conclusiveness of the “nothing is iron clad” contradiction.
How much credit do these guys deserve to say that in his example, he has changed as much as he can? I find that preposterous. He has learned how to control himself enough to avoid problems, but that’s the extent of his positive growth? I’d argue that personal empowerment, growth and positive change cannot be stagnant opportunities, but must be progressive. I’m not ready to espouse Ron’s good natured turnaround because he has learned to fly under the radar temporarily.
Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour--Ovid
I agree that having qualms about believing Ron Ron had a turnaround is reasonable.
Plus, we don’t really know how much has actually turned around.
But Artest never really had a lifestyle that wasn’t absolutely driven. He works hard and loves basketball in a way that is nearly insane in itself. He is sort of like a Jordan who didn’t the education or the PR crowd to teach him how to act in public at a young age.
And what has he really done since he got assaulted on the court in Detroit? There have been a lot of people who have gotten in fights with Kobe during the playoffs. Artest/Kobe was pretty calm compared to Bell/Kobe.
How has his on court performance been damaged by his problems this past season?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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are you kidding? you know how tough it must be to turn around from where RonRon was?
not only does he have fans targetting him because they know he’s a hot head but everyone has him on a shorter leash because of it too. Just like how Sheed would get T’ed up for staring at refs while Kobe can bark all day long and get the benefit of the doubt. Its HARD to break that habit when it seems like everyone’s against you.
I mean did you see some of those youtube clips where people in LA egged him on? I’d say RonRon showed some maturity not taking the bait and just cracking jokes instead. Noone’s saying he’s Mother Theresa but given his past and his reputation, just flying under the radar while putting up decent numbers is a pretty big turnaround.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Aug 31, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Am I kidding? Are YOU kidding??
Poor Ron Artest is on a short leash. And to think just because he attacked some fans. Heckling fans are a part of the game and always will be. Its just too bad that Artest never heard “sticks and stones.”
Why did Rasheed Wallace earn the scorn of the NBA? Because he was a volatile, immature and emotionally handicapped moron who either could not or would not control his behavior. I find Sheed a perplexing example in defense of Artest.
“Its HARD to break that habit when it seems like everyone’s against you.” Is it just coincidence this song is Garbage too?
Getting back to the fans who egged him on in LA and he kept his composure. Big deal. So what? Is it an accomplishment now for players like Artest to stay in control and just ball? Doesn’t make me want to admire the guy for not killing someone this time. Maybe I should lower my expectations as well, then I could make excuses for and act like a co-dependent hero worshipper at the same time.
Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour--Ovid
Balance
That Artest controlled himself doesn’t make him a hero — but I am still glad to see personal growth in someone, even if it shouldn’t have been necessary.
Ron Artest is a nut case. I don’t want him on our team. I’ll probably never be a fan. But I do recognize that he has taken some (small) steps towards maturity, and I’m glad for him in regard to that.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
always with the wedge of sense
I too can appreciate say an Artest showing some emotional maturity. However, I cannot conclude that has been the case with Ron Artest based on his avoiding major conflict. I’m not sure what else is being used to measure this supposed growth besides his stealth sheathing.
This discussion really began with a statement about Artest turning it around as much as he could. I still find that to be ludicrous.
Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour--Ovid
Yeah, that was an overstatement
He’s still a candidate to blow himself up, either on or off the court. Every year that goes by without him doing so is somewhat encouraging, I guess.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
imo Beasley just sounds like a guy in need of some guidance
From what I can gather he’s surrounded by some not-so-helpful types, including his own family unfortunately.
Blazer Fan
I agree.
The kid doesn’t seem at all intractable.
He just doesn’t seem to have a direction. Maybe this is part of where his depression comes from.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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..speaking from experience
I used to live in Lake Oswego, not far from the Lake Grove community while I was in college during the late 90s. As a night job, I worked at Blockbuster. Once a week or so, J.R. Rider and his crew would come in and pickup 5-10 movies. Every single time, and I mean every time, Rider was lit. It’s not like he even hid it well either. At least wear some dark glasses or something man! You’re a professional for crying out loud. Nope. He would come in after 10 PM at least, so the kiddies didn’t see them. But that’s the impression I had of my team at the time.
So, if anyone thinks about calling someone a bandwagon fan, remember recent history and the pre-KP era in Portland. I’ll support my losing team. I won’t support a bunch of losers.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
My philosophy of fandom
I’ll support my losing team. I won’t support a bunch of losers.
Well stated.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Turnaround Schmernaround
To Tominhawaii: You say that Ray Lewis turned it around after he was accused of murder. Do you mean in the same way that O.J. Simpson did? If turning things around is not doing any jail time than I’d hardly give him a pat on the back. And if he was innocent, and was falsely accused, then there would be no need to turn his life around.
I don't think he did it
And he was hanging out with guys who got him accused of murder. I heard he stopped hanging with them.
I was going to say Len Bias, to my memory, he only has one incident involving drugs then he “went to a better place.”
I think you should have went with Len
It’s hard to point a finger at a 19- year old kid who made a mistake that ended up costing him his life. But if we assume that all people end up in a “better” place regardless of what we do in this life, then Hitler can rest in peace. O.J.‘s jury of his peers didn’t think he did it either. Maybe you are right about Ray Lewis’ innocence. Or maybe he dodged a bullet. I wonder if Michael Vick is a changed man or the same man now watching his p’s and q’s under the scrutiny of the public eye. There’s a difference between being sorry and being sorry that you got caught.
You aren't saying that Tom should be dead, are you?
by MiledAnimal on Aug 31, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Damn it man! I'm a sports fan not a physcologist.
What I’m saying is that if you hung around “friends” that now were publicly accusing you of murder (as in the case of Ray Lewis), it stands to reason that it’s kind of a no-brainer that you are not going to continue to hang out with that crowd any more. This doesn’t prove to me Ray Lewis’ innocence, just that he’s not a total moron.
by Phi Slamma on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec for heading.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I agree that "[t]here's a difference between being sorry and being sorry that you got caught."
As deplorable as it may seem to some of y’all, I claim that my conviction of negligent driving in the first degree — which was reduced from the original DUI charge, as I blew a .10 (i.e., blood alcohol content) on the breathalyzer test — was a victimless crime.
In essence, I’m more upset that I got caught driving while intoxicated back in 2007 than having any remorse for breaking the law and allegedly putting people in harm’s way. It’s a good thing that I’m not a famous person, for I’d be a public relations nightmare.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
On the contrary my intoxicated friend.
Our government accepts no responsibility for its own wrongdoings, should we expect any different from its citizens? Your admission of remorse for getting caught is a breath of fresh air. I certainly would have had more respect for Bill Clinton if he had simply admitted smoking a joint instead of setting himself up as a liar for saying that he didn’t inhale. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with your actions. But I am tired of being lied to for my own good. I am tired of people not taking accountability , even in the face of indisputable evidence. Look at the Michael Jackson fiasco. You would think that he was held down against his will by a couple naked 12-year old boys, had a funnel shoved into his mouth, and had his pet monkey pour proposol down his skinny little neck. He was a grown man who used his own power and influence as well as made his own choices to take the drug. May he rest in peace. Tee Hee.
Fortunately for you, it was victimless
But it is well documented that that much alcohol can impair reactions and judgment. You were unnecessarily putting yourself and others at risk.
There’s no need to do it, AK. Call a taxi.
You could fire a bullet across your neighbour’s back yard, without being able to see the back yards beyond it, and not hit anyone. If you were fortunate that you didn’t hit anyone, it would be victimless — but you would be taking a risk that is unnecessary.
Just don’t do it.
"if Nate has Roy or Miller in the game at all times, that stagnation will turn into conflagration" -- two4larue
Tempest in a Teacup?
Hi,
I realize there’s the CBA and all that. And I’m from Eugene, so maybe my bias is a little outside the norms, but:
In my experience 20 year old kids smoke weed. All the time. Very nearly all of them. They go to class high, they hold down jobs high, they work toward (and end up getting) advanced degrees high…
To my mind, Beasley is just a normal 20 year old. To his discredit, however, he doesn’t seem to realize that he had to trade in normal 20-year-old-hood for millions of dollars. SO maybe he’s a normal 20 year old who could be a little smarter.
Still, being 20 and smoking pot doesn’t put you on “the bad path,” does it? Really? If so, every college campus is a den of sin and iniquity.
Nearly all 20-year-olds smoke pot? I doubt that's even remotely accurate.
by MiledAnimal on Aug 31, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
It isn't the same and you know it.
You weren’t half as weird as the locals. Admit it.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Our opinions are anecdotal anyway, unless someone can produce survey results.
I will say that my first wife was a Eugene/Springfield local, and she was a pot-smoking weirdo, except who isn’t weird? Even Mortimer seems normal to me.
Oh, sure.
I wasn’t attacking your point.
I was mocking Eugene. I’m pretty sure we don’t need a survey to know that they are strange folk down there.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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according to the latest pew poll 95% of 20 year olds say they have tried weed.
you wanted a survey result you got it…
even if it is made up.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Could you make up some stats on how weird Eugene is?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I don't know.
I’m from Salem and about half of my buddies got into substance abuse. It did bad things to nearly all of their lives.
The main thing about Beasley isn’t that he was smoking pot. It was that he was so uncaring that he got caught. At least Przy & Blake keep it behind closed doors.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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The thing is
high-level NBA prospects are not normal 20-year olds, either in opportunities or expectations. And the NBA is not a college campus.
However I will say this. There are probably young NBA players who smoke weed whose names we never see in the paper. Those guys might make your point for you. But once behavior hits the press, either because it’s egregious or the guy involved doesn’t have a clue, it’s a pretty good sign that things are going south.
—Dave
Fair Point.
And I’m certainly not saying that Beasley’s twitpic with baggie wasn’t a sign of trouble. I just see it as more of “what an idiot!” sort of trouble, and not so much “ooh, he’s going to end up in prison” trouble.
by Austin.Brian on Aug 31, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
I totally agree. I wouldn’t see Beasley headed down J.R. Rider Lane anytime soon. “What an idiot!” trouble is often enough to sink you in the NBA, not because the league is judgmental but because some of the same skills you need to thrive and survive in a competitive-cum-team environment are also the ones you need to avoid getting caught being an idiot.
I probably should have been clearer though in distinguishing between “criminal” or “not great person” and “not able to give everything they should on the basketball court”. My concern with guys like this is strictly the latter, not either of the former. I’d consider making a judgment on either of the former rather…well…judgmental.
—Dave
Did Beasley have question marks before he got drafted?
Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour--Ovid
Lazy & cocky is what I remember hearing before the draft.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Yes, lots of goofball moments and weed rumors out of Memphis - which apparently became true at Rookie Orientation Weekend
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-257/What-Brand-of-Crazy-is-Michael-Beasley-.html
Kidding around during pre-draft camp. Getting in competition with Ty Lawson about tagging his name everywhere, including on the car of the principal. His first high-school coach roomed in with him to keep him in check during his freshman year.
Riley was reportedly so unsure of having the #2 pick knowing the Bulls were almost a lock to take Rose that he thought about trading down and take Mayo or Bayless.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
I don't think Beasley is in big trouble just yet. I think this is an over-reaction to a high-profile athlete being stupid on twitter.
I would bet that the majority of NBA players have at least tried pot, and that a good percentage smoke from time to time of not regularly. Beasley got caught being an idiot and accidentally posting a pic with a small bag of weed. ( I’m a lot more concerned with the stupid tattoo he got than holding a bag of pot! ) Miami had to over-react and place him in rehab to save face and try to clean up his image. The public and he media still place a big taboo on pot, so they have to appear like this is a huge deal. But make no mistake, I’m sure most teams have a don’t ask don’t tell policy regarding pot. It’s become a joke of a crime anyway. In most places you get a ticket for just possession. Also Blazer fans, it’s just a matter of time before one of our beloved golden boys gets caught holding something.
by dario argento on Aug 31, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Becoming an embarrassment
I won’t moralize or preach on this. I won’t split hairs or debate the legalities or legalese or culture or anything of the kind.
How about sin? Not the kind of sin that is in religion. How about looking at the behavior of Rider or Damon or Beasley and keeping it simple?
1. Has the enjoyment of a lesser good in their own eyes (drugs) detracted from a higher good (playing hoops … honoring a contract worth millions … damage to their name and their reputation and that of the team)?
There it is. I actually got what I wanted to say done in one question. In my limited way of understanding such matters, valuing a lesser good over a higher good leads to “sin” against oneself … one’s priorities … one’s beliefs (or in some people’s views—one’s creator, etc.).
[If you don’t like the use of sin in this way, okay. I plead guilty to seeing it that way as an outgrowth of the writings of Saint Augustine. Pick another word if it suits you better.]
Again, this is not about what is legal or should be. It’s not about holier than thou or everyone makes mistakes. It is much simpler. Becoming an embarrassment to self and for others.
You should never use the words 'drugs' and 'good in the same sentence.
Unless you’re talking about Viagra that is. I’m still recovering from a four-hour erection my doctor warned me about. Your post is so full of politcal correctness I was almost afraid to respond out of fear of offending you. FYI, there is only one kind of ‘sin’, and that’s the wrong kind.
Hmm?
I actually liked the post. It gives you something to think about.
Other than this, “(or in some people’s views—one’s creator, etc.),” which was totally unnecessary since it fits under beliefs, it was an interesting way to look at what success and failure actually are.
The only problem is if Beasley sees his pride as the greater good.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Hey Dave
You mentioned about players not having a strong support system, what is your view on the Derrick Rose cheating on the SAT, which in turn cost the Memphis their record season?
Maybe I’m a too big of a fan of Derrick , but I honestly believe that Derrick isn’t the one to blame, it seems to me that it’s his support system that “took care” of everything.
Are we there yet?
Kareem?
He got addicted to Yoga.
And then he even played for the Lakers.
Ultimate low point in his life.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Still figuring out formatting guide for links...
http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/site/jabbar.htm
"How can I put the name Portland Trail Blazers on the marquee of Madison Square Garden?" - Ned Irish aka Sucka What?!
lots of people turn around
it’s just that by the time they do, the short window of the NBA star has long been closed.
Great post Dave.
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