Confessions of an NBA Scorekeeper

by usmcr3049 on Aug 27, 2009 9:18 AM PDT Comment 18 comments

I found this story from the Blogfather, and found it really interesting. This guy's story was just an internet legend to me before reading this story, as there was no way I was going to trust a random post on a random message board claiming to be a former scorekeeper for the Grizzlies. But this story proves to me that it is true, and it is mind blowing.

"That was my first exposure to the subjectivity of NBA statistics," he says. "I had come from the ivory tower where everything was straightforward. ... In Detroit, they'd show us a little video clip, and we'd enter it on our computer. That's a basket, no assist or whatever. Everyone around me would be giving assists. I was like, 'Really?' The dude passed it to a guy on the wing, who did a headfake, took two dribbles and made a jumper. And that's an assist?"

Alex quickly found that a scorekeeper is given broad discretion over two categories: assists and blocks (steals and rebounds are also open to some interpretation, though not a lot). "In the NBA, an assist is a pass leading directly to a basket," he says. "That's inherently subjective. What does that really mean in practice? The definition is massively variable according to who you talk to. The Jazz guys were pretty open about their liberalities. ... John Stockton averaged 10 assists. Is that legit? It's legit because they entered it. If he's another guy, would he get 10? Probably not."

Last year I remember watching a youtube video about CP3, and how he gets more assists at home than on the road, but this story makes it a league wide problem, not just the Hornets. Home and road splits shown in this story prove this happens alot all around the league. If CP3 didn't avg over 10 assist per game, would he still be an MVP canidate? What if he only gets about 8 per game? That is still really good, but is it MVP good? I have to wonder if any player who makes their living on steals, assists, rebounds, or blocks is really as good as they seem.

How this relates to the Blazers, both Joel and Greg were top rebounders last season, but were they really? And with this year being a big year for Greg, if he "breaks out" by avg 15/13/3, will it be because the Portland stat keeper helped him out with 1 or 2 extra rebounds per game, and 1 extra block per game? If that is the case, is it a bad thing? If everyone else is doing it, should the Blazers? Are the Blazers?

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Furthermore

if you try to correlate team-wide assists to anything—win totals, playoff success—you come up empty. I’ve learned not to automatically equate assists with success or even great offense.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 27, 2009 9:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Correct.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… THE ASSIST IS THE MOST OVERRATED STATISTIC IN BASKETBALL.

Take that, Sergio fans!!!

still fighting the war, xoxo,

timbo

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 28, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blake was a beneficiary of this subjectiveness

during his amazing assist 1st quarter during a game last season. True Blake started out on a roll, but towards the end of his run the score-keeper was being overly generous.

What this story says to me is that the league is more concerned about giving fans stastical number now (Immediately) rather than placing the importance on acuuracy. What I don’t like is that they is no reason htey can’t do both. Release unnoficial stats as they are acquired now, but then have staff go over video of the game to give an accurate consistent measure of all stats using rewind and slow mo to get these consistent and correct. That would be a proper solution.

by NWfan on Aug 27, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

this isn't a change

stuff like this has been going on for a while. Score keepers, time keepers… it’s all been there, it just becomes more public tanks to da intanets

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of the scorekeepers who works for the Blazers

used to run statistics for the Lewis & Clark basketball team when I went there. It’s always nice to see a ‘familiar face’ sitting at the table year after year.

by Storyteller on Aug 27, 2009 9:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How could you lie about the amount of rebounds they got?

I get how assist can be subjective to the scorekeeper. But I don’t get how when you say if Greg & Joel were given assistants on the rebound stats… I mean they either get the ball or they don’t for the rebound, I just don’t see how a scorekeeper would be able to add extra rebounds to a guys stat sheet without it being noticed more clearly than an assist.

by Oden_Favre_28 on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

As a general rule you can't

One of the things every good scorekeeper does at the end of a game (if not the end of each quarter/half) is “balance the possessions”, making sure that each possession ended in a properly noted play. If you do that, the extra rebound thing should be avoided.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Aug 27, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it is not about adding extra rebounds

it is about crediting a rebound to say, Greg or Joel, because they tipped it, or because they were around the ball when it was tipped by someone, eventhough the ball eventuall ended up in say, Sergio’s hands. Sergio should get credit for the rebound, but in this story he said it was not uncommon for stat keepers to give them to the big man, especially if he was a big part of the teams future, instead of the guard because why would Sergio need a rebound?

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Aug 27, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

to do a super cool no look behind the back tap to greg oden for a ferocious dunk

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Aug 27, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was a top 10 play

and imo perhaps sergio’s finest moment last season

by lurtsman on Aug 27, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

in the article I linked

he described how you can add rebounds to a player.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Aug 27, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember that game in Newyork where Lebron got that 50 point triple double

They gave one of Ben Wallaces rebounds to The King so he would have that 50 point triple double but they later gave the rebound back to Ben Wallace after watching the game over. So there’s totally bias when giving out any stat apparently.

by SonyaBlazer on Aug 27, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The interview states that assists and blocks are the most subjective. Rebounds can be altered a bit with tips and such, but are generally more consistent.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 29, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ever see that lebron credited rebound that was rescinded and it cost him the tripledouble?

by mandoman10 on Sep 3, 2009 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It really is all subjective

I was the lead computer scorekeeper was my HS and (D3) college teams and it really is up to you and your spotter (since you always have at least one spotter calling out numbers). Steals, assists, etc. are all subjective. Its not quite as bad as the debate over hits vs. errors in baseball but its close.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Aug 27, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My favorite anecdote in this article

Is the Grizzlies-Lakers game where Alex awarded Nick van Exel 23 assists, some of which he calls “comically bad.”

No one noticed. From his chair, Alex could hear the legendary broadcaster Chick Hearn calling the game. Van Exel’s having a great game! He’s moving the ball exceptionally well! And in the next day’s writeups, Van Exel was of course the hero. Alex thought, What the $@!%?
“This is a bad analogy, but it’s like a husband cheating on a wife in such a way as to guarantee he’s going to be caught,” Alex says. “There’s nothing to justify it. It was stupid. And there were no consequences.” He figured he’d at least get scolded. He wasn’t. In fact, a management guy congratulated him. The game was sure to get on SportsCenter now.

The tendency by all major media outlets to trust the box score rather than the game they supposedly watched closely is unsurprising i suppose, but frustrating all the same. I understand the pressure on announcers, beat writers, news anchors, etc. but the fact that all of them trusted the inaccurate box score over their own observations is frustrating.

by momomoses7 on Aug 27, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs