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The CBA: Guaranteed Contracts and Accompanying Issues

The single issue that drew the most attention when discussing the potential new Collective Bargaining Agreement in the NBA, both via the comment section and e-mail and by a large margin, was guaranteed contracts.  So we're going to start our official CBA conversation with that specific subject with a fly-by of a couple other attached issues.

Your instincts are probably right on, as this is likely to be one of the hotly-contested issues between owners and players the eventual negotiations.  Players want to be able to sell their services anywhere they wish for as long as they can negotiate for and have as much of their money guaranteed as possible.  Owners have an interest in limiting player mobility (and thus competition for their services), length of contractual obligation, and the amount they're obligated to.

Right now player mobility is restricted by various means.  Early in their career the rookie salary provisions lock up first round picks.  Unless their team is willing they essentially can't escape until the end of their fifth season, and that's only if they sign a one-year qualifying offer between seasons four and five, putting their future at risk in order to become an unrestricted free agent.  Even on the open market veteran players are restricted to signing with teams that have the salary space to afford them.  The vast majority of large contracts come from a player re-signing with his current team.  The combination of money and interest from both parties necessary to make a huge free-agent signing is rare.  You have to say this part of the equation tilts towards ownership.  Players who want the freedom to sign with a particular team usually have to sacrifice in order to make that happen.

The current CBA limits the maximum length of contracts a team may offer.  The actual number depends on the flavor of contract and the status of the player involved but it's fair to say that 5-6 years is the maximum allowed in most cases.  Combined with raises every season a six-year contract can produce an enormous sum.  Five or six years is also an eternity in NBA terms.  That's half of a great player's career.  It's enough time for a franchise's fortunes to turn and then turn back again.  To put in into perspective, six years ago the Blazers primary rotation consisted of Damon Stoudamire, Bonzi Wells, Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson Darius Miles, Sharif Abdur-Rahim, Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliff, and Dale Davis.  A player signed to a six-year deal in that season would have just ended their tenure this year.  Though I'm sure the union would argue otherwise, the players are in a reasonably good position here relative to their average longevity, peak production, and the cycle of the sport.

While the CBA allows some wiggle-room as far as negotiating non-guaranteed contracts the vast majority of NBA contracts are guaranteed for their entire lifespan.  Any player with a modicum of pull will be able to negotiate a fully-guaranteed deal.  This situation benefits the players beyond a doubt.

It's important to consider all three factors because they are tied together (along with a couple other issues which we'll address on ensuing days).  In essence one party pays for getting its way in a certain area by conceding more in another. 

From the player's point of view the argument for the current system is simple.  If you want to restrict where we can work then you have to pay us longer and guarantee those dollars.  You're saying that we're invaluable to these franchises.  Having us move around freely would damage the branding of the teams we moved from, undermine franchise stability, and hurt the league's credibility with its fan base.  We will accept that argument and forego some of our chances to earn the maximum possible in a free, open market but in return we want our contracts with our teams to reflect the value you're saying we have.  You can't say we're too valuable to move but not valuable enough to pay.  Nor can you expect me to sacrifice my potential future earning power without you also sacrificing some of your potential future dollars in the form of those multi-year, guaranteed contracts.

The owners' point of view is more complex.  They also have to consider the bottom line.  Heretofore they've been willing to live with concessions in guaranteed contracts and their lengths.  In the current economic climate that will prove less true.  The owners will argue that most franchises are losing money.  The fix will be retaining stability and brand power while reducing operating costs.  Part of those costs will be player salaries.  We'll get to overall pay in a later discussion but there will also be a strong push in these negotiations to provide more flexibility in potential costs by reducing the maximum contract length and lowering the threshold at which they are guaranteed.

We are never, ever going to see elimination of guaranteed contracts in the NBA.  The union would rather shut down the league forever than agree to that.  No matter how strong of a position the owners hold, I don't believe you'll even see serious discussions about weakening the guaranteed contract system.  That's almost certainly going to be off the table from the outset with the players.  The foregoing should make it obvious why (besides in pure financial terms).

I don't believe the owners will have any incentive to grant the players more freedom of movement either.  All of the reasons against it still hold and the owners won't embrace the inevitable bidding wars and potential franchise disintegration which would follow.

The one issue among these three that, while hard-fought, will probably be flexible is contract length.  Owners are going to push for shorter-term guaranteed contracts, the better to insulate themselves against fluctuations in performance and health (plus advancing age).  If a guy enters the league at 20 it makes more sense to negotiate with him at 24, 28, and 32 than it does at 24 and 30, then possibly being bound to him at an outrageous salary until he's 36.  While the union won't necessarily welcome the proposal it does contain a silver lining for the players as well, in that the opportunity for free agency and its attendant market-testing will come more often for more players.  They actually get a kind of backdoor mobility from the concession, even though they lose some of the richer years from some of the longer contracts.

For the most part I favor this resolution as well.  I don't believe eliminating guaranteed contracts entirely would be fair for the players in this situation.  Mitigating their consequences, even if only through shortening their terms, is probably the way to go.

However I would also like to see another provision added to the salary cap system which has the potential to alleviate some of the roster consequences of guaranteed contracts.  I would like to see a bi-annual exemption put in force whereby a team could waive a player, still be responsible in full for paying his contract, but that contract would not count against the salary cap.  The exemption could be used only once in a two-year period, the team could not re-sign said player as long as the old contract remained in force, and there would perhaps need to be a limit placed on the value of the contract...say $8 million being the maximum cap credit one could receive even if the waived salary was higher.

The league has been notoriously finicky about weakening the cap but I believe this would be of benefit to most parties involved.  The owners have the most grey area.  This has the potential of costing them more money rather than saving it, however nothing says they have to take advantage of the exemption.  A team's progress wouldn't necessarily be hampered for years by one contract mistake or injury.  Other teams would be able to pick up possibly-decent waived players on the cheap as well.  Overall it would put another tool for improving the team in the hands of ownership and management.  Players and their agents would benefit from this provision, as a waived player would be paid in full but would also be free to seek a new contract with another team, earning even more.  This exemption would also go a long ways towards quelling the fans' objections to guaranteed contracts.  If you could get out of the worst of them once in a blue moon and get a do-over the rest wouldn't seem so onerous.

What do you think of guaranteed contracts?  Do they help or hurt the league?  In what ways?  What would be your proposal for mitigating their effects while still protecting the position of the players who receive them?  Share your best thoughts below.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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what I would like to see is...

Performance-based requirements to fully guarantee a contract for a full year. Say, 60% guaranteed at the beginning of the season, with the amount of games played and performance in those games filling out the rest.

This would help protect the owners from having to pay all of a player’s salary while the player rehabs halfway across the country whilst not logging a single minute of game time (ex: Raef LaFrenz), while adding extra incentive for players to perform at their highest every year to get the most money.

Blazers win!

by The X-man on Aug 13, 2009 1:32 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

The problem with this is

If it focuses on statistics, it will promote players focusing on getting their numbers, therefore deteriorating the team aesthetic

by kajuayn on Aug 13, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would it be possible to change the measurables to other things?

Practices attended, games played, made the playoffs, distance in the playoffs, team point differential (potential for some real embarrassing stuff here).

Assists wouldn’t be a terrible stat to think about either.

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.

by staylost on Aug 13, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea absolutley

I just wanted to highlight more comprehensive stats than the basic pts or steals per game. Both are great stats that can really undermine a team.

by kajuayn on Aug 13, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is not far off what I proposed

I would think the players would love this, actually. It would increase player mobility by giving teams more cap space.

The players need to recognize that long guaranteed contracts are hampering player marketability. The thing that helps the individual who signed the long guaranteed contract hurts multiple other players, as well as the team, by taking that team off the market for future players.

Shorter guarantees, or limiting guarantees in later years, would probably help both parties in the long run.

What you’ve proposed here, Dave, would really only be of benefit to the players. It wouldn’t save the owners any money. They still have to pay the contract, but now they can save cap space so they can get to pay someone else money. It further tilts the balance to the richer owners.

I still think it is a good suggestion. But the owners will want concessions elsewhere if this comes in.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Aug 13, 2009 2:47 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree with the exemption idea...

Teams get stuck with players who are unable to produce… which isn’t always the fault of the player… but no-one is going to walk away from millions of dollars which is guaranteed.
The Players Union would only agree with it if the waived player received the full salary.
But the benefits are numerous.
1. More players would be signed. Waiving an injured player creates a spot/contract for another player.
2. Incentive to play hard. Not many players would be happy at being waived just because they weren’t producing.
3. The owners still have to pay and keep within the cap restrictions but at least they will be getting more contributions for the money. Its not like teams would be dumping dead weights just to sign super stars because the cap would still restrict them.
4. Injuries wouldn’t become such a burden to a team.

by Milky_Joe on Aug 13, 2009 5:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Not that I have any better ideas, but this also helps rich teams immensely. When a small market town like Portland loses a star to injury, they can’t always afford to pay another sack of gold. New Dork, on the other hand…

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.

by staylost on Aug 13, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The spirit of the guaranteed contract

is one which I agree with, however when performance wanes in the middle of a long deal then picks up when it’s time to renew, when effort, attitude and PR also change so someone appears to be a better citizen…I believe is fraudulent.

Miles is a classic example, you can also call those who offered the contract fools. Roy deserves the contract and the ability to have a guarantee for what he’s done and can do,

Teams should have a more flexibility when something goes horribly wrong, inadvertent or not.

by graygray on Aug 13, 2009 6:53 AM PDT reply actions  

This idea simply weakens the salary cap in favor of the richer teams.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. The rich teams can afford to waive a less productive player and pay for a replacement. But the poor teams will either suffer economically by using the exemption to replace a player, or suffer competitively relative to the richer teams if they can’t use the exemption for economic reasons. The Lakers would love this change – which can usually be taken as an indicator that it’s not a good idea!

The players would love the change if the waived players get paid full salary, since the affected player can then double dip. But I think the poorer or smaller market owners would vote it down. While it seems attractive from a fan point of view (we get rid of mistakes and get to make new ones) I think any change that would weaken the salary cap ultimately costs fans higher ticket prices and leads to less competitive parity in the league.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2009 7:41 AM PDT reply actions  

Everything is negotiable

On its merits, this is a good change.

Couple it with abolishing MLE for teams in the luxury tax, and you limit the ability of the rich teams to blow off the cap.

The players would love Dave’s proposal, the owners would like the MLE restriction. As long as you set off Dave’s proposal which impacts the cap with something that strengthens it, and you probably could reach an agreement.

The problem Dave is addressing hurts teams that aren’t as wealthy, as well. The negative impact of long guaranteed contracts is indisputable, and it would be good to lessen that impact.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Aug 13, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll stick with my position that a net weakening of the salary cap is not a good idea

for the reasons I stated. Of course, if you tighten the cap one place and weaken it somewhere else then you can theoretically have a net zero effect on the cap. But you have to be careful in seeking to balance both sides of the equation because of unintended consequences when you have so many exemptions in a soft cap.

For instance, even if you theoretically assume that allowing a bi-annual exception to waive a player as proposed were “balanced” by eliminating the annual MLE to produce a net zero change in the cap, teams are essentially unconstrained by the cap when re-signing their own free agents or extending their rookie contracts. So if the proposal was adopted the rich teams can take more risk than poorer teams in the salaries they pay to re-sign their players, since they can “erase” the soft cap consequences (but not their total payroll consequences) of their mistakes later. Hence, the rich teams still gain an advantage. A soft cap always creates loopholes and thus inequities in favor of the richer teams.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree as to net weakening of the cap

I was only saying that sometimes it makes sense to weaken in one place and toughen it in another.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Aug 13, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

What if

They made it so that players waived under this clause could only sign for a maximum of 1 million/year? This way it keeps small market teams in the mix of being able to waive and resign players. Also, it doesn’t give HUGE incentive to allow yourself to be waived.

by kajuayn on Aug 13, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

and that would also make owners less scarred to spend money

for owners who are interested in winning, not the bottom line, this provision would signing a guy like david lee or sessions to a modest contract without as much of the risk of being tied up in a bad contract because you couldn’t tell how good a player was going to be yet.

by StocktonNEP on Aug 13, 2009 8:09 AM PDT reply actions  

pro-rate the cap hit for injured players

I think a bi-annual exemption makes some sense. But my issue as always been with the injury issue, not the performance issue. If a team signs a player to a big contract, who was just never was as good as the team thought (Larry Hughes or ZBO or Ben Wallace), then the team has to suck it up on the cap hit. But if a team’s player gets hurt, Knee Mac or Yao or Miles, then that really is a different situation and I think that is where cap relief should come in.

I think if a player misses X games to injury, then the team should be able to “pro-rate” the cap hit over 3 years. So say a player making $12M, misses 1 season, then the cap hit would be only be $4 million a season for the next three seasons . You could even discount further by assigning a % such as 80% cap hit for each injured season . Still affects your cap, but not as crushing and avoids the dead weight for something beyond a teams control. This would also distinguish ZBO from Miles or Stevie Franchise. Miles you would get cap relief, ZBO you just suck it up because you signed a bad contract. Players would be ok because they still get paid as teams are wiling to take on bigger contracts because the impact of the risk of injury is reduced.

Btw, the NBA should really get credit for implementing the rookie scale. It is a geat concept and you can see how both baseball (with the nationals first pick) and football (with the crabtree holdout) would really benefit from a similiar system. I think the scale really does balance the risk of bust to an owner and stil meaningfully rewards potential for a player.

by bunk moreland on Aug 13, 2009 8:33 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree and here's why...

As said above I definitely agree with Dave’s idea ( I had the same thought) about requiring the contract be paid but getting relief from the cap and like the idea of the waiver.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is; this league is entertainment and ultimately the fans suffer if a team isn’t competitive because they have 20 million in guaranteed contracts for guys who aren’t playing due to injury or some other reason. So I think Dave’s proposal benefits both sides, owners can put out a better product and players get their cash and more opportunity for others.

Dave better send a note to Paul Allen / Kevin Pritchard and get this into the CBA!

by BradBBlazer on Aug 13, 2009 8:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Lock Out

Here’s a hypothetical for you: If, heaven forbid, a lockout occurs, would the players be free to sign a contract in Europe, for example? Would their old contracts be null and void, or would they re-start after the lockout?

by Original Blazer Fan on Aug 13, 2009 8:44 AM PDT reply actions  

The NBA and FIBA have a formal written agreement

for mutual recognition of player contracts. So players can’t simply hop between leagues by having multiple contracts at the same time.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lockout II

But wouldn’t the contracts be null and void if the players are barred from playing and making a living? Restraint of commerce? Anti-trust violation?

by Original Blazer Fan on Aug 13, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

During the last lockout existing contracts stayed in force after….just new contracts were effected by changes made after

"I'm tired" -Me

by 92wastheyear on Aug 13, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also raised my eyebrows about the anti-trust implications of a NBA/FIBA agreement...

It gets tricky, legal-wise, in that it’s an international agreement. If two American leagues had such an agreement it would seem to be a slam-dunk anti-trust violation.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

....... so to speak.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

But aren't the players still technically employed?

You can’t say they’re barring them from making a living if they still have a job.

"HA HA HA HA HA
I'm not laughing, I'm just listing the five ugliest Blazers ever."
- rockingharder

by jamon51 on Aug 14, 2009 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I repeat my call for a Universal Team Option in all contracts under the new CBA...

A standardized provision in all contracts allowing termination of a contract with or without cause with approval of the league office — with teams allowed to “nuke” only 1 contract with these provisions every two seasons.

First, to Dave’s comment:

We are never, ever going to see elimination of guaranteed contracts in the NBA. The union would rather shut down the league forever than agree to that.

That might be the unions line and there would no doubt be a very long, very bitter strike if the NBA owners attempted to eliminate guaranteed contracts. However, the players union was essentially busted in the NFL — the current system is crazily skewed in favor of ownership. Forget about guaranteed contracts in that league. AND they have a hard caps set at a level at which EVERY owner is making money. Lots of money.

Can one argue that the owners of the NBA are unaware of this? Do you think Paul Allen won’t squeal?

I am pretty sure that the main line the league takes against the players will be institution of a hard cap, shortening of contract length, and a lessening of player share of total league revenue.

I argue that a BETTER system to return profitability to the league, for the vast, vast majority of players, would be for the two sides to come up with a small tweak of the current system enabling teams to burn one contract every two years. This would go a long ways towards balancing the books.

Zach Randolph’s contract was revealed to be excessive and he had shown himself to be a donkey? Contract terminated, he’s a UFA. Blazers are back towards the cap and ultimately have more money to spend on contracts of players who DO deserve the money.

This happens in the NFL all the time, without restriction. Do you think Michael Vick collected multi-millions when he was in prison?

The key is to make it possible for teams to save a LOT of money wiping out the deals of a very few players. And we know who they are.

To Dave’s idea:

I would like to see a bi-annual exemption put in force whereby a team could waive a player, still be responsible in full for paying his contract, but that contract would not count against the salary cap.

That might make sense on an intellectual level, but it is also irrelevant to what the coming war is going to be about, I think.

Such a proposal would actually be inflationary (it allows more teams to bid on free agents), it adds to league imbalance (the teams willing to write off a bad deal just to spend the same amount again are going to be the LAs and Chicagos and New Yorks and Torontos of the leangue). And it does nothing whatsoever to address the number one issue of the owners, which is the fact that 2/3 or 3/4 of them are losing money or damned near losing money.

The owners are going to go for really concrete things like a hard cap, shorter contracts, and a smaller share of pie for the players. It is all about money for them, not being able to spend MORE money to put 12 guys on the floor.

The key for the players is that they have to understand that burning the multi-million contracts of a few of the guys that give the league a bad name — let’s call them the Iversons and the Marburys — is a lot better than ALL the players having worse prospects because after losing millions in a long and costly strike, they’re making 3 points less of league revenue.

There are ways to make the current more economically feasible for the owners without having a long and bitter street fight about it.

There needs to be thinking outside the box.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 9:09 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Very good comment

I especially liked this:

…burning the multi-million contracts of a few of the guys that give the league a bad name…is a lot better than ALL the players having worse prospects…

I wholeheartedly agree. Get rid of the LaFrentz-type contracts, and it removes the hamstringing—ultimately resulting in more profitability for the league and a better product on the floor.

"HA HA HA HA HA
I'm not laughing, I'm just listing the five ugliest Blazers ever."
- rockingharder

by jamon51 on Aug 14, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

READ:

“The key for the players is that they have to understand that burning the multi-million contracts of a few of the guys that give the league a bad name — let’s call them the Iversons and the Marburys — is a lot better than ALL the players having worse prospects because after losing millions in a long and costly strike, AFTER WHICH THE PLAYERS ARE SPLITTING 3 points less of TOTAL league revenue.”

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 9:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Dang, that's still not English.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

It ain't Scottish, either

Break it up into at least three sentences.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Aug 13, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was trying to find the CBA online this morning and instead came across a parallel thread on Bedge's Denver Nuggets sister site...

Click the title for the full article, I’ll extract the money lines…

Collective Bargaining Wish List

by Andrew Feinstein, Denver Stiffs, Aug. 7, 2009

It’s gotten very little attention, but according to the Associated Press the NBA and the player’s union have already begun collective bargaining talks in advance of the current collective bargaining agreement (the CBA) which expires after the 2010-11 season. * * *

Now for the bad.

First off, the guaranteed contract in its present form must go. How many more Tim Thomas’s or Darius Miles’s or Erick Dampiers do we need to see to recognize that the guaranteed contract must be scrapped? The word on the street is that the owners will aggressively fight the union on it in this next go-around of negotiations. And they absolutely should. The Nuggets current situation with Kenyon Martin being owed $15.4 million and $16.5 million over the next two seasons is a textbook example of the guaranteed contract becoming an albatross for an entire organization. The Nuggets have an owner willing to lose money to bring Denver an NBA championship, a competent management team in place and a deep, talented roster that’s just a solid big man away from possibly winning that championship. And yet because of K-Mart’s deal, the Nuggets will be lucky to score a Jeff Foster-caliber center.

Like they do in the NFL, I’d like the NBA to move to a system where contracts are partially guaranteed and much of that guaranteed money is paid up front, giving players the incentive to play their hearts out and keep in shape when those non-guaranteed years kick in. For whatever reason, too many NBA contracts are backloaded for when players get older and less hungry. * * *

Secondly, trades need to be simplified. In order to make an NBA trade today, teams must swap salaries that are within 125% of each other plus $100,000. Throw in trade exceptions and non-simultaneous trades and completing an NBA trade can rival doing your taxes: it’s an overly complicated system that no one really understands. * * *

Thirdly, the luxury tax line needs to be raised. As a Nuggets fan I’m admittedly biased here, but it’s not fair for Stan Kroenke to be asked to lose triple what the Lakers lose to put a similar product on the floor. If a small market owner like Kroenke is willing to shell out as many salary dollars as a big market owner like Jerry Buss or Cuban, why is he getting penalized so much for it? As reported a few months back, Kroenke allegedly loses about $10 million a season before the Nuggets exceed the luxury tax line. As of today, Kroenke is on the hook to pay out $76 million in player salaries — or $6 million over the $70 million tax line which means another $6 million goes into the NBA’s coffers. So between the $10 million Kroenke allegedly loses plus the $12 million he’ll be paying out in salary/to the NBA, this could be a $22 million loss. Conversely, the Lakers don’t lose any pre-luxury tax line money…

Fourthly, the minimum age rule should mirror MLB’s. The one-and-done rule by which kids have to play at least one year of college basketball or enter the NBA after the age of 19 has backfired on the NCAA. It should really be called one-semester-and-done because that’s exactly what’s happening. What’s the point of having great coaches like Roy Williams or John Calipari or Ben Howland kill themselves to recruit and coach top prospects only to have those prospects jet off to the NBA after a semester on campus? Like baseball, I’d like to see the NBA scrap the age limit. If you’re ready to come into the NBA – a la LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, and so on – then they should be allowed in right away. And for those who stay in college, they should stay at least three years or wait until they’re 21, as they do in Major League Baseball. * * *

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Aug 13, 2009 10:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Stole my thunder on the age limit rule there

I’ve been advocating a move to the MLB age-limit rules ever since Stern instituted the current rule. The MLB rule would satisfy just about everybody. It would allow those few who are legitimately ready for the NBA out of high school to forego college like they want, but it would strengthen the NCAA game by assuring that players who do go to college are in it for the long haul. Yes, the NCAA may miss out on some of the transcendent players like LeBron and Garnett, but that was the case prior to the age limit rule as well.

One aspect of the MLB rule that would need to be addressed is the status of drafted players. Currently, if a player is drafted out of high school he has a choice of signing with the team that drafted him or going to college instead. At that point, he would also be committing to college for at least three years or until he turns 21, after which he is eligible to go back into the draft pool.

So if a high school player is selected in the NBA draft, should he be eligible to go to college anyway if he chooses? And if a high school player goes undrafted, should the NCAA change its rules to allow him college eligibility?

A three-pointer is not a "triple." A triple is a hit in baseball.
A three-pointer is not a "trey." A trey is either an ESPN sportscaster or something that bad spellers eat cafeteria food on. - Dave on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 PM PDT
A trey is actually a playing card or die or domino having three pips. - pipgras on July 31, 2009 9:22 PM PDT

by GustyJ on Aug 13, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hire more intelegent GMs

The owners and GMs have done this to themselves. Leave the financial system the way it is, just operate your business more efficiently if you want to make money. Sports teams give Billionaires a thrill they can’t buy anywhere else, why do I care if they are making money or losing money? Oh wait, because interests from OKC could buy my team and move them….

The age limit has created an environment where freshmen put up crazy numbers against inferior talent and believe they are NBA ready, just because they can score 30. There HAS to be a better way to cultivate talent, and I don’t know that the NBADL is working towards that end.

Fine, the OLP album grew on me. It's defiantly change.

by SuperDave on Aug 13, 2009 11:54 AM PDT reply actions  

Dave I think your point #1 makes point #2 un-needed

By shorting contracts, lets say 3 or 4 years, the albatross type contracts would go away, and there would be hardly any need to wipe a contract off the books every other year. By the time you would be able to wipe it off, it would only have 1 or 2 years left, making it a good trade contract, and not something a GM would want to just wipe off his books very often.

As for my idea, I think 3 year deals, except for max contracts which should be allowed to be 5 years, (if a team is dumb enough to give a max deal to a non-max player I don’t want to hear about them wanting a “get out of jail free” card like you proposed). No MLE exception, no Bi-Annual, and no more trade exceptions. The league needs to cut back its spending, bring teams under the salary cap more often, and encourge small market teams to compete, (yes I am thinking of Memphis) by making it more profitable for them to be good, then to be bad.

by usmcr3049 on Aug 13, 2009 1:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, I mostly agree with you.

1. 3 year deal at most for signing another team’s free agent and 4 year deals at most for signing a team’s own free agent. This would spell an end to 5 and 6 year deals.

2. No amnesty clause, for that allows fiscally imprudent front office executives an unwarranted get out of jail free card. That’s ujust, unfair crap.

3. No more MLE, BAE, or TPE. No more signing bonuses, deferred salaries, or trade kickers. No more cash considerations in trades, either. These are all unecessary in the grand scheme of things.

4. Even if a player is injured and files for medical retirement, his contract should stay on the team’s books for the duration of it. Frankly, Portland deserves to suffer the consequences for stupidly re-signing Darius Miles to an absurd contract. The same goes for Memphis when it re-signed Byrant Reeves and Michael Dickerson to absurd long-term contracts, although the Grizzlies got away with their fiscal imprudence.

5. The system of guaranteed contracts is just fine as currently constructed, as team’s can add on partially guaranteed and non-guaranteed seasons to a player’s respective deal. It isn’t a player’s fault front office executives are fiscally imprudent, but rather the fault of the doltish front office executives blowing their wad whenever they want to get off by overpaying for some run-of-the-mill and/or overrated player. Seriously, the NFL screws over its players in this regard.

Stupid people have stupid ideas.

by AK1984 on Aug 13, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

cba tweaks

i don’t have any issue with guaranteed contracts. responsible teams will not put themselves in bad positions. irresponsible ones will. for instance does any reasonable person think that a combined 120 million for 5 years of andrea bargnini , hedo turkoglu and jarrett jack is a good idea for a team that just won 33 games and wants to resign chris bosh in a few months? i seriously doubt it but the raptors brought this on themselves and i don’t see why the cba should bail them out in a few years.

one change i think is necessary is decoupling league revenue from the cap and the luxury tax. the situation going on right now where is not benefiting anyone. even teams who have responsibly stayed under the tax to this point are getting screwed as revenue falls and so their once responsible payroll is now being taxed. this is punishing groups that were making every effort to balance payroll with quality on the floor.

it’s awfully hard to sign multi-year deals while trying to also forecast where the cap and luxury tax are going to be. i could see tieing revenue to a portion of the increase but there should be some level that the luxury tax can’t fall below each year.

the age limitations should also go although i can’t see this happening and in fact wouldn’t be surprised to see them go up. after all the players union is hardly going to care about the plight of kids not yet in the NBA so i’m sure they’ll concede that point.

by colinmarsh on Aug 13, 2009 6:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Age limit

I don’t understand all the opposition to the age limit. If anything, maybe require 2 yrs. out of high school before being able to sign(whether they choose to play for a college or oversees is up to them). All these people who say that an uber-talented guy should be able to support his family if he’s good enough…since when is it ok to expect your 17 or 18 yr. old son to support the whole family? What about his family supporting him while he goes to better himself in college. College isn’t JUST a place for academics; it’s also a place for stretching your wings, discovering who you are, a semi-protected environment from the trappings of fame and fortune; a stepping off place between home and all that comes with a high-stakes profession. An 18 yr old may be ready to score the ball for an NBA team, but is he ready to deal with all the hands extending for a piece of his salary? Is it really in his best interest to go directly from high school to the NBA? Yes, there is risk of injury, but there are also risks involved in coming out too soon and never finding your place in the NBA. Would Webster, Gerald Green, and Bynum have found stardom already if they’d learned their basics under the tutoring of a college system and coach before coming out? I believe all were a bit stunted by the huge jump. I would even go so far as to say that GO seemed unready for the huge expectations placed on his shoulders. Maybe if he’d gained more confidence in his game for another year in college… And I haven’t even mentioned the unfairness to GM’s who are nearly forced to take high school talents in the early draft picks solely based on “upside”. TO had “upside” but would he have gone as early in the draft if the decision were based on how he could actually perform for the team in the next 2 -4 years? Too much money being committed to 1st round players to have to draft them based on what MIGHT be. Give GM’s the chance to see players compete against their peers for a couple years, then they have something to base their decision on. I just don’t get all the opposition to age restriction. It is ultimately better for the player, better for the teams, and better for us fans. But I’m thinking of the player most of all. Why should he be allowed to be pressured by those who may not have his total best interest at heart to jump straight into the NBA? It’s a pretty huge responsibility for a kid who just went to his senior prom!

by blazerstoked on Aug 13, 2009 11:42 PM PDT reply actions  

If you think every player needs to go to college

read the Livin’ Large serial at Basketbawful (http://www.basketbawful.com).

It’s a true life adventure of the roommate of a Purdue baller named Matt Ten Dam in the mid 90’s in the Glenn Robinson era.

Then come back and make the case that Purdue University and this doofus were enriched and improved by Matt’s experience.

PS: If you have been following this series and haven’t figured out that Purdue is the university in question, which the author won’t reveal…now you know.

by chnews on Aug 14, 2009 1:53 PM PDT reply actions  

REC till the site melts.... my mind is mush... again.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."

-Dave

by faith on Aug 14, 2009 7:18 PM PDT reply actions  

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