How will the Blazers pay all their Players? Let me show you.
This topic came up a week or so ago, but I didn't have the time to really research my facts to support my opinion so I let it go until today. But I have found the time and I would like to share all of this information for those who didn't know or have the time to look it up.
For those that want just the summary skip to the end.
The first thing anyone should do when trying to answer questions about the Salary cap, or specifically the Blazers salary cap, is to look at these two websites, Storyteller's salaries and the NBA salary cap FAQ. Storyteller has already updated his site to include both Andre Miller's contract, and B-Roy's new deal, (although Roy's exact numbers will not be known until next year when the official salary cap numbers are released, Storyteller is approximating what they will be).
Another important piece of info was the memo the NBA sent out this summer to all the teams, in which it projected the salary cap and luxury tax threshold for the 2010-2011 season, ESPN's report on it is here. In the memo it gives the official salary cap number for the 09-10 season, ($57.7 million) the projected cap in 2010-11, ($50.4-53.6 million) and the projected Luxury tax threshold for 2010-2011, ($65-61.2 million).
What is not known is what the cap will do after that, many believe it will go back up in 2011-12, but it could stay the same or go down more, we just don't know yet. I believe it will go back up, a resession lasts for a limited amount of time, sooner or later the American economy will get going again, and when that happens, the NBA's Basketball Related Income, (BRI) will start to go up again as well.
Now for the Blazers.
So far for the 2009-2010 season the Blazers have committed to $54,076,568 in salaries, this includes Miles contract, and Andre's deal, but doesn't include Pendergraph's or Cunningham's, as they have yet to sign deals. Once they are signed, (KP reportedly said they would be signed before camp) the team will have 13 players on contracts, which means they might pick up 1 more, but it is doubtful they go into the season with 15 players on contracts. $54 million is below the actual salary cap for this season, which was set at $57.7 million, add another million or so to the Blazers total to account for the second rounders, and it leaves the Blazers with about $2.7 million or so of cap room once the season starts. I believe that if they use this, it will be in a trade that helps bring a player back in a position of need for a player on a smaller deal.
The biggest question mark in my mind is Martell Webster.
If he is healthy then the Blazers will have to make a decision, Webster or Outlaw will have to go. There is just not enough playing time for them both to stay, because while Outlaw was at his best at the 4, he only played about 10 mins per game there, and the rest of his time was at the 3. With a health Webster and Batum there will be no minutes for Outlaw at the 3 this year, and he will not be happy with 10-15 behind LMA. If Webster isn't healthy, then the rotation will be the same as last year as far as the SF spot is concerned. It is my belief that either Webster will prove to be healthy and Outlaw will be traded for a true back up 4 during the season, or after the season Outlaw will not be retained because Webster will be healthy at that point, and the Blazers will need to spend their MLE on a back up 4.
LMA's extention.
It is my belief that LaMarcus will sign a contract extention this summer, he has said he will, as well as KP has said he wants to get it done. It was rumored that LaMarcus was asking for about $12 million to start with annual raises, while the Blazers were thinking $10 million plus raises. Lets split the middle and say he signs for $11 million +10.5% annual raises, which would put him toward the top of the PF pack in terms on contracts, except for the MVP types like KG.
Ok now on to the salaries for 2010-11.
At this point the Blazers have 9 players, (I am counting LMA amount them with an assumed contract as discussed above) under contract for 2010-11, with salaries totaling $55,491,628. As I talked about before the NBA has projected the 2010-11 salary cap to be between $50.4 and $53.6 million, so the Blazers will be over the cap next year, but they will be well under the projected luxury tax threshold of $61.2 to $65 million. This is important as the team will need to sign at least 5 more players to get to 14 roster spots. Those 9 players under contract will be:
Joel
Oden
Lma
Batum
Webster
Roy
Rudy
Bayless
Miller
As you can see there are some holes the Blazers will need to fill, but nothing of major need. If Batum and Bayless really develop this year, the team will basically be set, only needing a back up 4, which can be filled pretty easily. But Bayless doesn't project to get major minutes this year, so if he doesn't earn the trust of the coaching staff, then Blake could be brought back as an insurance policy. My guess is it would be a cheap option to back up Miller for 1 more season if needed, maybe a 2 or 3 year deal for $6 to $8 million. However, I believe in Bayless, and more importantly KP and Nate really believe in Bayless so I don't believe Blake will be with this team after this year.
As you can see, the team while over the cap will have many options available to it, depending on their player development they could be set, not needing to make any major moves, or they could need to make a move and have the ability to do so with their MLE.
The Blazers in 2011-12.
This is the year where Greg Oden's extention will kick in, he will have to work out that extention during the 2010 summer next year. I believe Greg will silence his doubters and critic's this year, but i don't believe he will be Shaq or Dwight 2.0. However, that doesn't mean he won't get a monster deal, because just decent big men get big money, just ask Mr. Bogut, or that white guy who plays 5 mins behind Dwight. Greg's extention will heavily depend on his play this coming year, and since I believe he will be awsome and avg great stats, (15/13/3) I also believe he will get a monster deal, but not a max deal. My best guess at this point is something starting at about $12.5 million and increasing from there. That is not that far off of the max, so if he does end up earning that type of contract it will not completely handcuff the Blazers.
Figuring in that extention, the Blazers will have 8 players under contract in 2011-12 for a total of $60,036,969. The one player they will lose is Joel, who's contract expires, (yes I believe he will pick up his player option). If Greg really develops like I just explained above then Joel will be too expensive for the Blazers to keep as a back up center, and as such Joel will find work elsewhere. This leaves the Blazers looking for a back up center, and power forward, unless they found him in 2010-11 and signed him to a multi-year deal.
The Blazers in 2012-13
This is the summer that many fans are worried about, because of Rudy's, Batum's, and to a lesser extent, Bayless's extentions coming up, and they have a right to be. As you can see the Blazers will be very close to the Luxury tax line in 2011-12, only about a million dollars away, unless it goes up, (not counting any players that may be signed between now and then). There are a couple of items to look at, first is Miller's contract expires, (if the team picks up the 3rd year) at the end of the 2011-12 season, while Rudy, Batum and Bayless's possible extentions would not take effect until the 2012-13 season.
The other thing to think about is 2012-13 is a team option year on Webster's contract, so if he never fully heals the team might not pick up that option, or if they believe that Batum is the real deal, and needs 30 mins on the floor they won't pick it up. So that is another $5.7 million to use on extentions for Batum, Rudy and Bayless.
Let me put this another way, forgetting about FA signings and rookies that might be drafted by the team between now and then, in 2012-13 the team will have just 3 players under contract if they so choose, B-Roy, LaMarcus, and Oden, who's salaries would total about $43,603,580. That is alot of cash for 3 players for sure, but it doesn't seem so bad when you think that the salary cap will be between $55 and $60 million. If Batum, Rudy and Bayless all prove they are major rotation players then they will get paid, all of them. And if we say their avg salary comes out to about $8 million each in 2012-13 that would make the Blazers cap number $67,603,580, which is above the cap and pretty close to the luxury tax line.
If this happened, the Blazers would be over the cap and only have 6 players under contract, which is why many people fear a player like Rudy will be traded away. If Paul Allen really wanted to keep them all he could, there are other teams who are paying between $70 and $80 million in payroll for their contenders, which is about what it would take to keep all of these players money wise. Is Paul Allen ready to do that again? Even if he is, is there enough minutes on a team to keep everyone happy? Will Batum, Rudy and Bayless even develop into deserving those type of contracts? So many questions, and so few answers that only time can tell.
So my point in writing this ever too long post, is this: These is no need for the Blazers to make a rash decision on Rudy, Batum or Bayless right now because of a fear that they will not be able to afford them later. They have until the 2011-12 season to make those decisions. But for us fans, the fear of losing a fan fav like Rudy is very real.
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Been wondering about this
Good research and a usefull post
by southern oregon on Aug 11, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions
Nice post.
I hope we can shave a million or two off per year between the LMA and GO extensions, but other than that this looks like sound analysis.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Thanks for taking this on; I'm sure KP and the brain trust are considering their options.
You did let Pendergraph and Cunningham go after 1 year; might they not be signed to multiple year options, or play so well they will be rewarded with larger contracts?
I can’t see them letting Joel walk unless he has declined physically; nothing could kill this team faster in the future than injuries at the center position.
While KP seems to have a tendency to let players play out their contracts, I have a hard time thinking that Blake and Outlaw will walk off without compensation. This is a really big year for shaping the second team: continuity or change?
(Picky: it’s “extension”)
yes
I only assumed Pendergraph and Cunningham would sign for 1 year. I don’t see them getting much if any playing time when it matters, and if that is the case then they won’t be around much more than a year or two, and if they are their will be on very cheap contracts that won’t effect much at all.
As for Joel, if he would take a discount to stay in PDX in terms of both minutes and dollars, then I am sure the Blazers would want him. But if Oden develops into a force, and avg 30 mins per game for the next two years, then the Blazers can not realistically keep Joel on a fair market value contract. He is worth at least what he is making now, but likely much more, maybe something around 3-4 years for 40 million or so to a contending team with a need at center.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Joel's future is a tough one;
You may be correct that he’ll jump for a $10+M offer from another team, and the Blazers can’t afford to pay him that to back up Greg. However, he is a force on a back-up unit with 4 shooters/scorers, and the kind of “insurance policy” at center that a championship caliber team needs. Perhaps he would be happy to take another $7-8M for 3 or 4 years from the Blazers to be a part of this team and extend his career with limited minutes?
I agree with a later poster that Blake will resign at $3-4M as back-up, but Travis will probably be unhappy and be gone at the trade deadline or end of the year (especially if Pendergraph or Cunningham impress). Bayless, Rudy, and Martel are the next question marks, and at least one will have to go for a high draft pick(s) to keep your scenario of replacing back-ups with younger (and cheaper) players.
I agree with your estimate of Greg’s renewal at $12M+; if he doesn’t get a near max contract, the Blazers will risk alienating him and losing him. That is why I think we are hearing so little about LMA’s current negotiations; it is such a sensitive matter (witness how upset BROY was and he is so laid back) and means so much to a guy coming off a rookie contract.
here's the thing
I don’t know if the Blazers would be able to realistically afford to give Joel a contract for 7-8 million, if Greg is eating up 30 mins or so a night, that leaves maybe 15-18 mins for Joel. I want him on the team, and if we can keep him it will be a coup for sure, but I think there will be other teams willing pay him a lot more money. But Joel stayed in pdx for less before, when the spurs offered him big bucks to join a squard that just won the championship, and PDX was a laughing stock, so maybe Joel will suprise us all.
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I'd be surprised if Joel got more than he gets now
I think, if he was still up and moving about, we’d be fine paying him 7 or 8 million to average about 15 minutes but sometimes play 20+, and sometimes 10 or less. He’s a great role player, but I’d be shocked if anyone paid a 30+ Joel close to 9 or 10 million bucks.
I see him staying at the MLE+ level… the Spurs offered the MLE for him, and we just paid about that much so we didn’t really get him for a discount money wise. He just stayed with a team that was a bad franchise at that time.
And since good big man depth is worth its weight in gold, I hope we find a way to keep him or someone like him.
Morty
I agree
If there is a lot of cap space running around, Joel gets more. But there isn’t going to be, and he isn’t a perfect fit for a lot of teams.
Joel is not the player that will bring in more fans. Nor is he the player that will get a 25 win team to 40. He is attractive to the good teams, not so much to the bad ones. The good teams tend to have less cap space available.
I see Joel being worth $9-10 million to the very teams that don’t have that much available to pay him. I can easily see us retaining him for $7 million a year. The likelihood of someone offering much more than that seems pretty low, and I don’t think Joel leaves unless it is a big difference in money.
Three years ago, the story might have been different, but the world has changed, and there is less money floating around.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I guess I just disagree then
I don’t think this team would be “fine” paying Joel $7 or $8 million per year to play 10 mins on most nights, when they can get someone cheaper to do that same job, which will save some money to pay Batum and Rudy, and possibly Bayless if they all develop, (doubtful they all develop like we fans hope).
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I don't ever see us wanting Greg to play 38 mpg
So the 10 mpg is probably wrong.
Keep Joel and you extend Greg’s career.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Even with Greg and Joel last year
LMA still played some Center minutes, as well as Frye. Nate likes to go small at times, so even if Greg avg only 30 mins per game, that doesn’t really leave 18 mins for Joel when it plays out for real.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Scoring threat
Nate went small to have five scorers on the floor. That isn’t happening if Greg is a scoring threat and playing 30 mpg.
As to Greg playing more than 30 mpg, we’re in a new world, now. The world where you don’t have to play your stars very long minutes, because your team is so strong that they are going to win a top 2-3 seed anyway.
Where keeping them fresh and healthy for the playoffs is more important than running them into the ground trying to eke out one or two more regular season wins.
Where limiting wear and tear injuries to keep a phenomenal team together longer is more important than the difference between 62 and 65 wins.
I’ll be very disappointed, if Joel maintains his current production, if Greg averages more than 30 mpg. It would be a waste of Joel, and running unnecessary risks.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I forgot to add
that I think that if Greg develops into a player worth this type of contract, he will play about 33 mins per game. Yao avg’d that last year, Dwight avg more, and even a broken down Shaq played 30 a night. If Greg earns this contract, it will be becasue he is injury free and a dominate force on the court defensively, which means he will be on the court as much as possible.
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How many minutes?
It is a terrible dilemma for a coach to decide on minutes: win each game at whatever cost with your best players vs. keep moderate minutes recognizing the length of season. Discounting preseason, the postseason could total 28 additional games. I thought Nate reduced minutes somewhat towards the end of the season last year as we solidified our playoff qualification. Perhaps there is a way of playing with stats to show how a player’s PT is linked to point differential while on the court? And if we have one of the best point differentials in the league, it makes sense that our stars will be sitting out increased minutes in blowouts or semi-blowouts.
Well done
I tend to think both Greg and Lamarcus will get a bit less than you project – LMA might average 11 mil per season, but he won’t start there, and Greg will probably average around 10 mil per season rather than starting at 12.5. Of course, to average 11 mil, LMA will start around 8 or 9 over a five year deal – so his price tag will be about $2-3 mil less than you project, IMO.
Greg’s will be even cheaper relative to your projections – as I doubt he’ll be significantly better than Bynum, Bogut, etc this year. If Greg gets a five year $50 mil deal, he would start around, what, $7 or $8 mil? So that would be a savings of 4.5-5.5 mil off your projections.
I think your projections are the high end possibility, but it’s also possible the total payroll number could be 6.5-8.5 million less per season, which would leave room to sign the existing role players and future role players and still be under the luxury tax.
In that case, the Blazers would be fine unless two out of the three of Rudy, Nic, and B-rex turned into $8-10 million dollar guys. I think it’s more likely Nic and Bayless become 5-7 mil guys and Rudy becomes a 6-8 mil guy – none of them are likely to get the shots or PT before their extensions are negotiated to really demand more.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
You are completely correct
I forgot to mention that in my post I was taking the total high end of what I thought each player might get in extensions, (thank you Kacee, I knew that didn’t look right!). Anything less is money in the bank.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Well its nice to hope
but I think everyone is underestimating how much Aldridge, and Oden will ask for.
Greg's deal
Eventhough I was going for the high end of what they guys might get, it is worth noting that Bogut was signed for 5 years $60 million, which started at about $10 million in the first year. I think if Greg can prove he can stay on the court, that is the bottom dollar to which he will be resigned.
Bynum signed for 4 years $57 million, which starts at about $12.5 million in the first year. I think that is more what Greg will get if he reaches my projections in his performace this year.
If you look at each of these players stats in their contract years, I think we can see what Greg needs to produce to earn a big deal.
Bogut in 07-08 35mpg, 14.3ppg, 9.7rpg, 1.7bpg, 51%FG 17.61PER
Bynum in 07-08 29mpg, 13.1ppg, 10..2rpg, 2.1bpg, 64%FG 22.19PER (Only played 35 games)
I think if Greg only improves his foul rate, he will match what Bogut did in 07-08 to get his contract, without question. But if he can maintain his production from last year, while increasing his minutes to around 30 per game, his numbers will go way up, to around 15ppg 11rpg 2bpg, 56% FG, and a PER over 20. If that happens he will get what Bynum got for sure, if not more.
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If Greg makes progress this year
but not enough to justify max, his agent may advise him to wait for RFA and get max then.
If Greg gets 14/11/2 or so, that may not justify giving him max, but it will make it a reasonable possibility that he could establish himself as a max player the following year. In that case, if I’m his agent, I tell him to take out an insurance policy against injury and go earn his max salary in the final year of his rookie contract.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
You may be right
However I would argue that even if Greg makes it through this year without injury, his past injury history would suggest that he get a deal done this summer, just incase something happens. If he avg the 14/11/2 you suggest, then he will get offered somethign like Bynum did, and maybe more, since Bynum only got a 4 year deal, and the Blazers may offer the full 5 years. I find it hard to believe Greg would pass up on a $70 million dollar deal to go into RFA in 2011 when who knows who will have cap room.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
If I'm Oden's agent I'm going for a 5-year deal next summer
to minimize risk from future injuries, even if I can’t get maximum money. The risk of another MF level injury during the final year of his 4-year rookie contract, which could end his career or at least drastically reduce his new contract value, is too great to chance.
If anyone thinks contract extensions are a problem this summer, just wait for negotiations over Greg’s contract. That will cause massive BE anxiety attacks next summer.
On the other hand, I think they will come to an agreement with Joel much easier.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Depends
You can always take out a massive insurance policy.
I’m hoping Greg does 18/15/3 this year in 28 mpg. That will make it easy for everyone to decide on his contract, besides the fact that it will mean we get #1 seed in the playoffs.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Great post first off.
I dont fear being able to afford the players you mentioned (Batum, Bayless, and Rudy). My concern is being able to find minutes for these guys. Another year of sitting will make Bayless very dissatisfied, and Rudy was rumord to be less than thrilled about trying to sign Hedo. Batum may find minutes, but he gets way to much credit in my opinion (i think if Webster is healthy, he takes most of Batum’s minutes). So, assuming the Blazers can pay market value for these guys, why would they want to stay career back ups?
As I read the tea leaves
The Blazers better be championship contenders by 2012 if we expect to see the supporting cast (Batum, Rudy, and Webster) kept for another contract round otherwise Paul Allen would be insane to pay this group. The Blazers player price tag will go up, but I think KP will make smart choices about which players will be keepers and if someone does pan out they’ll be trade for draft picks. Those draft picks can supplement the core of the team with talent and cheap contracts. We all know KP has drafted well and keep costs lower through the draft when deciding which players to keep three years down the road.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Blake or Joel are given smaller contracts as backup roles after their current contracts, especially if the team has made it the finals.
I do not see the luxury tax as an impediment to a championship contender
Paul Allen has said some years ago that he is willing to pay luxury tax for a team in the conference championships or better. If we are winning he likely will continue to want to have his guys stay.
I do not see an issue with Rudy at all. There is every likelihood that Rudy will be a star while playing 6th man for a champion. He will play 30 minutes and he will get paid well. As he assumes the mantle of star on the Spanish National Team he will also get global endorsements.
Nic will have to beat out Martell over the next two years and those should be some great battles. Outlaw as well has a limited life-span here if those two play well.
Not factored in to your analysis is the wild card KP brings to the game every year. Victor Claver, Joel Freeland, and Petteri Koponen, are all possible major contributors and each year’s draft offers additional opportunity to add players. Who was counting on Nic before November 2008? He finds them and Nate uses them to advantage.
I am skeptical that Joel takes the last year of his contract. Too many teams have geared up for next summers FA and not enough quality players to soak up the available cap space might lead Joel to get a $10M per year offer as a starter elsewhere. Should he remain it will be solely because he likes the team and winning. But that does not change your point of flexibility. Nicely done.
but if the cap drops to $50mil next year
Joel might find himself in a David Lee-type situation (not RFA but you know what I mean).
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
His agent
will look at the teams who have cap space, and how much they will have, and will assess the players out there.
Joel is smart enough to take good advice. He won’t opt out and put himself in that position. Even Boozer was that smart this year, and Joel is smarter. He only opts out if it is going to pay off. It’s too early to know at this point whether it will or not.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think he and the Blazers will probably come to an agreement, but if not
he may opt out just to establish his value, and then he would give the Blazers a chance to match it. This is a great situation for Joel and the Blazers, and I don’t think either side wants to end it.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Next summer may be a bad time
to “establish his value”. Depends on who has cap space.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Really good post
Rec’d.
If these guys are good enough to get big raises, we’ll be battling for championships every year. If we’re doing that, Paul Allen will probably pay to keep them.
If they aren’t good enough, then they won’t get big raises.
Nothing to worry about, unless you are a female who doesn’t care whether Rudy is good or not, you just want him around anyway.
As someone above said, we don’t know what our draft picks and Euros will be in three years, either. We may be hoping one of the guys who is up in 2012-13 will just get out of the way so the new guy will have his chance.
We have assets upon assets upon assets. If one of them gets away, it isn’t likely to hurt us too much in the long term. The only thing likely to stop this from being a great, great team is major injury.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

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