And Just Like That: A Storm
by Ben. on Jul 8, 2009 7:40 PM PDT
in News
747 comments
From Jason Quick of The Oregonian...
After a series of trades fell through this week, the Trail Blazers have settled on their next target: Utah power forward Paul Millsap.
Although Millsap is a restricted free agent, meaning the Jazz can match any offer, the Blazers are preparing what one source called a "toxic" offer designed to exterminate interest from other teams.
...
The Blazers figure to exhaust nearly all of their cap space to lock up Millsap.
Despite being a much better player, Millsap runs into the same general problems as Bass, discussed below: are there enough minutes and is he a transformational player?
The fundamental questions: Is this the guy you sink years worth of salary cap flexibility into and is he the piece you believe puts you over the top? Is he a suitable consolation prize after missing out on Turkoglu? Tough questions.
Millsap is a banger, of course, and would be a very quality addition. KP would get double bonus points for taking a quality piece from a division rival.
Kevin Pelton has written in support of Millsap's game recently but hits the money analysis in the underlined portion...
In terms of their potential to contribute over the next five seasons, Paul Millsap and David Lee are probably the two best free agents on the market. Both players were on the fringe of the All-Star discussion this year (you'll remember I gave Millsap a spot on my squad). Millsap in particular is young enough to still have room for growth, while Lee is just entering what should be a productive prime.
Alas, because both players are restricted free agents and their current employers are expected to match any offers, Lee and Millsap have been relegated to the back burner so far during free agency. Portland looks like the only team left that could make a serious run at either player, and with LaMarcus Aldridge at power forward and the duo of Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla in the middle, barring an unlikely trade it will be difficult for the Blazers to carve out enough playing time to justify paying big money to part of a four-man frontcourt rotation. That could limit Lee and Millsap to either hammering out a long-term deal to stick around with their current teams or taking the qualifying offer and trying again next year. That leverage is limited by the fact that both qualifying offers, especially Millsap's, are way below market value.
And before you get too excited, here's a recent take from Tim Buckley of the Deseret News.
As Carlos Boozer trade rumors continued to swirl Wednesday, Jazz restricted free agent Paul Millsap negotiated the first full day of the NBA's summer free-agency shopping market.
Much of the interest in Millsap is known to have come from Oklahoma City, which has enough team payroll salary cap space to sign Utah's backup power forward to an offer sheet.
For now, however, caution seems to be the name of the game.
"I think that in this economy, a lot of teams are second-guessing themselves and doing their research to make sure they're making the wise decision," said DeAngelo Simmons, Millsap's uncle and representative.
Even if Oklahoma City and Millsap agreed to terms, the Thunder would face likely competition from the Jazz - who've vowed to match any offer sheet the 2006 second-round draft choice signs with another team.
Rumors have circled that Utah might try to trade recently-signed Carlos Boozer so as to prepare themselves to keep Millsap.
Talks continue between the Pistons and Jazz about a Carlos Boozer-Rip Hamilton trade. Hamilton didn't fit with Allen Iverson this season, and he won't fit with newly acquired Ben Gordon. In fact, Gordon has become Iverson. He has no conscience when taking shots.
Although Paul Millsap's price tag originally was set by his agent at $10 million a season, the Jazz's chances of re-signing the restricted free-agent forward for the midlevel exception of $5.854 million (and possibly even less) appear to be growing.
...
"The Jazz haven't given us a number at all, and we're not trying to come to an agreement on anything because we haven't come to a number," said Simmons, who was speaking out to deny rumors that the Jazz and Millsap were close to a deal.
...
The Jazz remain committed to matching whatever offer Millsap receives, with O'Connor saying, "Our position hasn't changed." Millsap averaged 16.0 points and 10.3 rebounds in starting 38 games last season with Carlos Boozer injured.
Millsap could opt to sign the one-year $1.03 million qualifying offer the Jazz tendered him last month and return to the market as an unrestricted free agent next summer. The Jazz plan to make Millsap a fair offer, but will not overpay out of loyalty.
Also, earlier this summer, Chad Ford of ESPN ranked Millsap his #4 free agent (Hedo was #2, haha) and wrote...
With Carlos Boozer out for most of last season, Millsap proved he has the potential to be an All-Star power forward -- he is unstoppable on the boards and can put the ball in the basket. Detroit, Memphis and Oklahoma City are all potentially interested, though the Jazz will try to bring him back. But with Boozer not opting out, there's a small chance the Jazz won't be able to match another team's offer to Millsap, especially if it's a huge offer of $10 million-plus per year.
Are the Utah papers pushing Millsap out the door? Brack Rock of the Deseret News wrote on the 4th of July...
Paul Millsap is entertaining offers this week, and if he gets what he wants, the end result will be a salary that starts at $10 million. Per year, not per eon. Considering he made about $800,000 this year, that would be a 1,100 or 1,200 percent raise.
I'm all in favor of the Jazz retaining Millsap and giving him a generous bump in income. They can do that by matching any offer another team makes. The hazardous part is if someone offers him cuckoo money, say, $12 million or $14 million a year, and the Jazz buckle under the fear of having him return to haunt them. Then they're committed to a multiyear deal, at a huge price.
...
There could be worse things than losing Millsap to free agency.
Signing him to an overpriced, never-ending contract, for example.
The Jazz need look no further than their own history to remember times when, in the heat of the moment, they paid too much for a very good player. Remember Andrei Kirilenko?
Also, FYI, exclusive to Blazersedge because he loves you that much, here are Millsap's comparables from the esteemed Kevin Pelton.
Sim Season Team
Reggie King 97.5 1981 kck
Nenê Hilario 97.3 2007 den
Lonnie Shelton 97.2 1980 sea
Carlos Boozer 97.0 2006 uta
Jeff Ruland 96.8 1983 was
Drew Gooden 96.3 2006 cle
Amare Stoudemire 96.2 2007 pho
Buck Williams 95.9 1984 njn
Cliff Levingston 95.9 1985 atl
LaSalle Thompson 95.8 1985 kck
Update (9:42PM): More from Jason Quick of The Oregonian. He writes...
it appears Pritchard is preparing for perhaps his last big pitch of the summer. Sources say the Blazers are putting together what they consider a "toxic" offer to Utah's Paul Millsap
...
If the Millsap plan doesn't go through, the Blazers will go after free agent Brandon Bass, a young power forward who played for Dallas last season.
...
Nothing, absolutely nothing, has gone right for the Blazers this summer.
On Wednesday morning, Pritchard sounded weary and defeated, and refused to comment on his summer shortcomings.
Update (10:12PM): From Ric Bucher on twitter...
On Millsap/PDX: It would have to be an offer sheet, which hasn't happened. Also rumored they offered BBass same. Neither checks out so far.
Update (12:05AM): Ross Siler of the Salt Lake Tribune updated his post to read...
The Portland Trail Blazers are preparing an offer to restricted free agent forward Paul Millsap that will test the Jazz's resolve to match, according to a report Wednesday night on The Oregonian 's Web site.
...
The Jazz have committed to match whatever offer Millsap receives, but doing so could push their payroll past $80 million, leaving them to incur $10 million or more in the NBA's dollar-for-dollar luxury-tax penalties....
Should they not match, however, the Jazz would run the risk of watching Millsap leave for the Northwest Division rival Blazers, followed by Carlos Boozer's potential departure next summer as a free agent.
...
In fact, The Oregonian cited a source's description of Portland's expected offer as being "toxic." The Blazers could do everything from front-load the contract in the first two years to include a signing bonus that the Jazz would have to match.
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I don't
know where he will play….. what would the minute spread look like?
by FrenchToast on Jul 8, 2009 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Assuming everything stays the same it would look like this:
Power Forward
Aldrdige: 34.5
Milsap (Outlaw+Frye): 13.3
Center
Przybilla: 23.8
Oden 21.5
Aldridge: 2.5
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 8, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frye is a free agent. Portland didn't offer him a quilifying contract.
by BBK on Jul 8, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think LMA could play a few less minutes if we got Millsap.
Let him rest a little more.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
36 minutes is not a lot.
Gasol played over 40 in the playoffs just fine.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaMarcus Aldridge = starting PF and backup SF
Crazy talk? Here’s the scenario
Nate starts a frontcourt of Batum, LMA, Oden
Millsap replaces Batum at 6 minutes into the half
Batum (etc) replaces LMA at the 13 minute mark
LMA replaces Millsap with 5 minutes to go in the half (19:00)
LMA plays at least 18 minutes per half
MIllsap plays at least 13 minutes per half
Batum (or a combination of Roy? Webster?) plays up to 17 minutes per half
(total = 48 total minutes for the 3-4 positions, per half)
More minutes could be available for Millsap if both of the centers get into early foul trouble, OT, etc
Why would Portland do it?
“I don’t think they operate like everyone else, where they have to fit everyone into a hole,” Bartelstein said of the Blazers. “They work to acquire great, young players and they make it work. And that’s what I think they are doing, trying to get the best players they can. And if (Pritchard) has an over-abundance of bigs? That’s a good position to be in in the NBA.”
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/07/blazers_next_move_is_a_mystery.html
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have to commit to some minutes at 3 for Brandon Roy
as long as Rudy Fernandez remains on the roster. If they are not on the court at the same time for at least a few minutes per half, they both get short-sheeted on minutes. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this would likey mean a trade involving Joel.
by 1003100free on Jul 8, 2009 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
because this would mean our backup center would either be Aldridge (our starting PF) or Millsap (who stands 6’9").
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully non of that materializes and he becomes trade material.
Darius Miles Tribute Vid
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Jul 8, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it...
Oden gets two quick fouls and we can play small ball with Aldridge at the 5 and Millsap at the 4. I think a 3 man rotation works for the 4/5. Just to be precautious we’d have to sign a center (cheap one) to just throw out there in case Oden and Aldridge/Millsap get into foul trouble.
by 1003100free on Jul 8, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In order for your plan to work
Oden has to largely fail as a player and Aldridge needs to play both starting 4 and backup 5. Can’t say that I like it.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
Oden starts, plays 32 minutes
Aldridge plays 16 mins at the 5, and 16 mins at the 4
Millsap plays 32 mins at the 4, 16 with LMA and 16 with Greg.
depths sucks of course, in case of fouls and more importantly injury, so we’d have to go snag an emergency center (figure Pendergraph can handle emergency 4 duty)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
What happens those nights that Oden only plays 15 minutes due to foul trouble? And even so, 32 minutes isn’t enough for Aldridge. He needs 36-38.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if oden is only playing 15, then ’graph and the emergency center pick up 5-6 mins each, and LMA and Millsap play 40 each.
i was just using 32 as a round number to illustrate the point. LMA will more likely be getting 36, while millsap and oden are each aroudn 30
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think LMA would mind a bit playing 32
Gives all players more rest for the playoffs & with a dominant frontcourt we are blowing all the lottery teams out. No one minds sitting out garbage time.
by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 8, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't
We’re a playoff team now. Aldridge needs to save it for the post season. That’s why many feel its important we pick up a competent backup for him.
by Bskey on Jul 9, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that.
LA played the whole season with only three legit bigs. Same with Boston, Denver, Orlando, Cleveland, Houston, Dallas. Pretty much all the playoff teams I can think of had a primary front court rotation of three players.
I’m guessing there’s a 95% chance that either Aldridge or Joel (probably Joel) get traded if we sign Milsap. It would be a poor use of our assets to have so many guys at those two spots especially with with such a glaring hole at PG. Pendergraph and Batum can both fill in for spot minutes behind Aldridge anyway. It’s not like we would be incredibly thin without Pryzbilla.
It’s possible we could send Joel somewhere he wants to go as a sort of, thank you for sticking around, gesture. Do the Timberwolves have anyone we might want? Rubio maybe?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my take
We still need a backup C until Oden proves himself. A legit backup C who can play 20-30 mpg if need be. This is Joel Przybilla (who is actually a legit starting C but whatever).
Przybilla has 1 year + 1 year player option on his contract, correct? And it was rumored he’s planning to opt out of his option. But this next year we absolutely need Joel Przybilla to cover for Greg Oden. Hopefully he sticks around the year after that too. But I think we can’t count on GO as much as we’d like, and once Przybilla’s contract is up then we don’t have a “logjam” at PF/C anymore.
Plus Joel is just a great player. Take a look at this:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/an-award-for-joel-przybilla/
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know about Joel.
You don’t have to convince me of his greatness, but he’s most likely gone in two years or less. He’s a legit starting center and his fate was sealed the moment we drafted Oden.
Plus he’s missed about 40% of all games with an injury. This last year was something of an anomaly. There’s no way the Blazers sign a 32 year old injury prone center to a large contract. Not going to happen.
They are probably better off trading him while he’s healthy and coming off a career season, and signing Milsap pretty much confirms this.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just rather have him as long as possible
To teach/practice with/back up/insure Greg Oden. I see what you’re saying, but I still hope he stays. If GO has a great year, then I’ll be okay with trading him at the deadline if the returns are good.
I shall be rooting for his continued presence even as I hope for Millsap to come here.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's a good chance....
that he’s around until the trade deadline. That should give the Blazers enough time to see what the deal with Oden is.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 3:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryz's trade value is high now, but will decline quickly
I get your point about wanting to keep Pryz to the end of his career. It is a huge asset to have two legit centers, however if Joel opts out next summer, we are likely to get nothing in return.
It may make sense to trade him this summer if we can get a legit back-up or if we get a montser PF who would allow LMA to be more effective as a back-up C.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 5:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joel has been very healthy the last two years.
- He played all 82 games last season plus the playoff games.
- He only missed eight games the previous season due to breaking his hand.
- His worst season was when he got kicked in the nuts, which would ruin anyone’s year.
Joel should have a long career. He’s averaged only 20.6 minutes per game for his career, so he’s hardly getting worn-out.
When Joel’s contract comes up for renewal, I’ll bet he’d take less to stay with the Blazers.
He’s the ultimate team player and will be okay with backing-up G.O. until he retires.
I love Joel and want to see his jersey hanging from the Rose Garden rafters.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is called small ball
with an almost 7 foot tall dude at center?
by FrenchToast on Jul 8, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMA isn't what you'd call a physical PF
I’d be worried about him getting pushed around if he tried to play too much center.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
check 82games.com
LMA isn’t too hot at center, especially on defense.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're already assuming Oden's major foul problems
will continue this season? Way to be positive.
by GregOden15ppg on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't have to at all
The Blazers could just offer Milsap a 5/50 deal and let the Jazz try to match. We don’t need to send the Jazz anything.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Free meant...
That picking up Millsap means we’re going to trade Joel, not that we’d have to trade Joel to get Millsap.
Rex is a starter by the 2010 trade deadline. Watch.
by dan_the_man on Jul 8, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
I don’t think we’d trade Joel unless we’re really confident about Oden’s development. I don’t see how we could trade Joel unless we’re ready to play Greg 35-40 minutes a game (with LMA at the 5 and Milsap at the 4 while Greg rests).
Small-ball lineups are fun and exciting and win in the regular season but get seriously shut down in the playoffs.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryz is a nice trade chip
If we sign Milsap to big money, we should trade Joel for a nice 1 (Hinrich) and sign a cheap backup 5 for emergency situations.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Outlaw.
It might be a possibility that Martell is still questionable and Travis will be needed to back Batuum.
It was discussed in prior blogs of trading Joel to Houston, but that isn’t as likely now unless we trade for one of their pt guards. TEE HEE.
hg
by BBK on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt we get Millsap
It makes no sense. We’d pay $8 million for a guy who would play less than 20 minutes a night, unless we significantly cut minutes designated for our other posts.
Also, like just about every other FA deal we are looking at, this would spell the end of the Travis Outlaw era.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 7:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this would spell the end of the Travis Outlaw era
you say that like it’s a “bad” thing
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, but I'm resigning myself. I want him to play somewhere he loves
and is loved. Unfortunately, at least the second half of that wish doesn’t seem likely to happen in Portland.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you love a little bird, let it fly away
Keep Travis in Portland and he’ll get less “happy” as his minutes are reduced
it’s time to cut the cord
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gag me. :)
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Jul 8, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Roy isn't signing his contract
until he knows whether Travis will still be a Blazer.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travis pretty much knows that he’s on the outs. He even joked about being traded for Turkoglu. I’m sure Roy has figured this out as well.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i got the impressions roy was pretty much told
and was ok with it
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that Travis’ situation with the Blazers would be a big enough influence to sway Roy from signing with this team. They’re best friends, but Brandon must know that it’s only a business.
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
besides, Roy wants to sign for five, the Blazers want four.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s according to Jason Quick.
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP and Brandon already went over "that" when they made the offer to Hedo
and clearly Roy “signed off” on the prospect of Outlaw not being back
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy isn't signing b/c the Blazers are nickle & diming him.
That’s one point I agree with Quick on.
When the last round of super stars (LBJ, Wade, Bosh, etc.) re-upped after their rookie contracts, the big thing was to push for 4 year contracts so they could really capitalize down the road (2010). Their teams were wise enough to want to lock them up for as long as possible.
It strikes me as odd that the Blazers are only offering 4 years. Flexibility is good, but Brandon does everything the team asks of him. He deserves 5 years. Give it to him KP.
by DC Blazer on Jul 9, 2009 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's weird to me
that Travis isn’t more appreciated. He’s an excellent spark of the bench, versatile, and is one of three (Roy and Bayless being the others) players on this team who can consistently create scoring chances for themselves. If you expected Travis to be a Tashaun Prince clone, then I understand the disappointment in his progress, but I think when (and at this point it’s when, not if) he leaves, absence will make some hearts grow fonder.
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 8, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice kid
but Outlaw is not a forward who’s going to be a part of a championship rotation
Unless Travis gets lucky (like Morrison) and gets traded to a perfect situation
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consistency
Or rather the lack of it, has been his downfall.
I’m grateful for what he’s done, but it’s time to go.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Travis
I’ve met the kid, he’s incredibly nice and I have always loved having him on the team, but at this point all signs seem to point to him getting traded, and in the end I know it’s a business and I’m confident the move that ships him out will make us better. I just hope he can go somewhere that he can really excel.
I wanna be Brandon Roy when I grow up!
by dagraffman on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's my nightmare
that he gets traded to some Western Conference team and goes for 25 and 12 every time he plays the Blazers, laughing at Pritchard and Paul Allen every time he approaches that end of the floor. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no respect for players who do that.
If they’d played at a consistently high level for their first team they’d still be there.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 9, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
just the fact that it would mean that Outlaw is leaving is a bonus. and Millsap would get more than 20 min. a game cuz he would play some sf as well, after we unclog that position with a trade for an upgrade at pg.
by GregOden15ppg on Jul 8, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its just sad
he stuck thru all the crap and the moment we get into contention he has to go….
by FrenchToast on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be happier
if he can play in a more free-flowing situation where there’s less structure and defense is an afterthought
New Jersey, for example (for Keyon Dooling, their salaries match)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could be a poor man's Marion offensively
circa 7 seconds or less if D’Antoni ever got him in New York.
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 9, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, believe me, I wouldn't mind seeing him go
so long as we got value in return. I’m no big fan of Outlaw.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feels like a no lose exercise.
Force the salary back on a rival or pick up an excellent piece to further facilitate an upgrade trade.
Bedge or go home.
by Ojala John on Jul 8, 2009 7:45 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
bingo!
Utah matches, we force their hand on Boozer trade
they don’t, we have a very attractive player who has a ton of trade value
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chug!.........Chug!..........Chug!............
Chug
Darius Miles Tribute Vid
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Jul 8, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why force a Boozer trade?
I fail to see why we would want to foce a Boozer trade. It’s not clear to me that the Jazz are any worse off trading him for say, a SG or SF.
by DC Blazer on Jul 9, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my basic take also
Millsap is very good. He was even playing better than LMA when he was starting (though I think LMA has much more potential to be a better player, a more versatile player, than Millsap— but Millsap averaged 16/10 as a starter and averaged over 3 offensive rebounds a game. He is very good).
We get a very good player for further big man depth who is the right age, and a fair price for his talent level, or we force Utah to pay much more than they can afford for a guy who is a backup at this moment to Boozer. It also lowers the value of Boozer since everyone knows Utah can’t afford ’em both.
I’d love to get Millsap and worry about the minutes later.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yessir, but there has to be another trade coming right? we need to still figure out the SF position and the PG position
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you will find plenty of debat on just how much we need to figure out the SF position
from myself included. I have NO problem rolling into the season with Batum and Martell (assuming he’s healthy). PG, now that’s another story
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am fine with our SFs as well
I would like to upgrade the PG spot, and I want Outlaw to go somewhere he can get good minutes and earn a nice contract.
M.
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
use Przybilla and Outlaw, bada bing a point guard.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two problems with this
1. Your trading Big for small and you would still need to with sign a FA or get a scrub to back up the three bigs
2. You remove one log jam at SF and create another at PG, who sits, Blake or Bayless…I don’t think KP is interested in putting off Bayless’ development another year
I would foresee holding onto all bigs and watching KP waiting till trade deadline and seeing if he can pick up a key piece with either Blake/Outlaw/Pryz/Martell or some combo thereof
by Matt Daddy on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we’re not trading a big for a small, we’re trading Przybilla for Millsap and a small.
Blake would be part of any potential deal.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see KP trading Blake
I could see Outlaw for a 3rd wheel PG, but I think he has more value comboed with Przy nearer the trade deadline for a bigger name (i.e. Gerald Wallace)
Remember Pryz and Outlaw both have potential contracts that won’t carry into next year and a team that may be struggling could look to free some cap space and give us an extra playoff punch
by Matt Daddy on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Przy is a rugged playoff performer
why would KP trade away his toughest player? The goal is to add them
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he just added Milsap who is tough.
Pendergraph is also pretty tough. Seems like the sort of player you could use for 5-10 minutes a game and feel comfortable with.
Nobody has that many bigs. It’s just not a good use of your assets. Here’s a mostly accurate list of the salaries for center rotations. Some of the numbers are from last year and some of the numbers are probably off.
Playoff contenders in the West
Oden/Pryzbilla- 5.3/6.8
Dampier/Gortat-10.1/5.5
Bonner/Blair-3.2/0.8
Hayes/Dorsey- 1.7/0.8
Bynum/Mbenga- 12.5/0.95
Chandler/Armstrong 11.8/ 2.8
Okur/Collins 9.0/2.0
Staudimire/Lopez- 15.5/1.7
Hilario/Anderson-10.5/1.0
Look how small all those backup centers are. Joel would be the most expensive backup center by far and complete overkill as far as I can tell. Most teams prefer to run with one true center and two 4/5’s. It just makes more sense from a minutes standpoint.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers are long, and they are the wall that Portland needs to climb over
length > strength
Bring in Millsap and push out Joel and KP is cutting off his nose to spite his face
it is not necessary
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the 4 man rotation at PF/C for top teams next year
Mostly from production stats from 82games to determine the top 4
rotation
L*kers – Bynum/ Gasol/ Odom/ Powell – 12.5/ 16.4/ app 10/ .9
Magic – Howard/ Lewis/ Gortat/ R. Anderson – 15.2/ 18.1/ app 5.7/ 1.3
Nugs – Martin/ Nene/ Anderson/ Balkman – 15.6/ 10.5/ 3.7/ 2.1
Cavs – Shaq/ Ilgauskus/ Varejao/ James – 21/ 11.5/ app 8 / 15.7
Spurs – Bonner/ Duncan/ Blair/ Someone – 3.2/ 22.1/ 1/ .8
Jazz – Millsap/ Boozer/ Okur/ Kirelinko – app 8/ 12.3/ 9/ 16.4
Mavs – Nowitzki/ Dampier/ Bass/ Singleton – 19.8/ 12.1/ 5.7/ .8
Blazers – Przy/ Oden/ Aldridge/ Millsap – 6.8/ 5.3/ 5.8/ 8
Przy is worth every penny we are paying him next year at 6.85 mil. The Blazers are at or far under the cost of every other team. Remember how Oden would tear up other teams when he came in last year? That’s why you want two centers. We’ll have 12 mil locked up in Oden and Przy next year versus almost 12 mil at least for the starter at center of the other team. I don’t see how you can argue that Joel is overpaid in relation to the frontcourt costs of other teams.
And I’d say for SA their center is Duncan/ Someone and L*kers is Bynum/ Gasol and Utah is Okur/ Boozer
These lineups are for approximation only, as I realize that Millsap can’t be on two teams and Bass, Gortat and other stuff might change.
by KitIsh on Jul 9, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t Powell gone? All of those teams have a 3 man rotation for their front line. Some of them don’t even have a true center. They do all have legit starting point guards though (-Lakers).
The Lakers have a three man rotation.
The Magic have a thin three man rotation. (Gortat is gone)
The Nuggets have a three man rotation.
The Cavs have a three man rotation. James is a wing.
The Spurs have a three man rotation that includes a rookie.
The Jazz will have a three man rotation very soon.
The Mavs have a three man rotation. (Singleton =<5mpg)
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can say the Lakers have a 3 man rotation of bigs, and that's true...
But they also have FIVE bigs in the cupboard, including Josh Powell and DJ Mbenga.
Last year Bynum went down with a knee injury for a long time and trust me, the depth was critical to the team’s success.
There is nothing wrong with depth, although in the playoffs core groups tighten up dramatically and the best core wins.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Outlaw
to the Nets for Keyon Dooling, another 40% 3 pt shooter, provides insurance in case of injury to Blake/Bayless
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there HAS to be a trade coming
Prolly before the season starters.
And it looks like Outlaw is the odd man out. I mean, ya get a REAL back up PF in Millsap, Outlaw has no role. That’s not fair to Outlaw in a contract year, and we shouldn’t force feed him minutes at the SF if Batum and Webster are here.
Getting Millsap means we are doing a trade, somehow, somewhere, someday.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is a SF rotation of Nic and Webster coming back from injury with Roy and maybe Cunningham sliding over to help enough in Nate's mind?
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 9, 2009 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget LMA in that SF rotation
Nate could play LMA / Millsap / C at the 3-4-5 against the opposing team’s bench and wreak some havoc in the middle of each half
Put Bayless-Rudy-LMA out there at the 1-2-3 and you still can run, when it’s there
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It works like Houston playing LA without Yao and Mutombo worked
Good as an emergency situation and to beat on some centers of the league (e.g. I could imagine him being able to effectively play Al Jefferson), not someone you want to have has your default backup center (see Joel discussion) over a prolonged period of time.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 9, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I like Milsap more than Lee
I’m not a big fan of signing a young starting PF to play backup behind LMA.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 7:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
sooo true.
Darius Miles Tribute Vid
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Jul 8, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why?
would you prefer an old crappy one?
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
by 12sharks on Jul 8, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think its a great value for the money
I’m just a little worried about concentrating so much salary in one position. After thinking about it more, though, I’m getting more comfortable with the idea. If we’re only going to be able to one free agent with our cap space then I think Milsap is probably the best of the bunch. If we can work him into the roster so that he gets 20-30 minutes a game, then I think we should be ok.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is better value than paying $9M to Darius Miles, is it not?
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they will still be paying Darius, Milsap or not.
by bad karma on Jul 8, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still, worry about THAT wasted money if you are concerned about wasted cash...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Square peg
round pinwheel.
This guy was a near all star, but he’s a “4” and only a “4”. That can’t work, especially since Rudy is a “2” and only a “2”. That’s just PT constipation.
Love his game though.
by The Penguin on Jul 8, 2009 7:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hes only a 4
if his coach makes him a 4
by FrenchToast on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I don’t see why he couldn’t also run the point, right?
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's too big and slow to play SF
and too short and not good enough on defense to play center. Millsap is a 4, through and through.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played some 5 last year
Pretty effectively too. His PER at 5 was a hair higher than at 4 (20.7 vs. 20.9). http://www.82games.com/0809/08UTA10.HTM
by DC Blazer on Jul 9, 2009 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER is the bogus creation of a journalist. It is a pseudo-stat.
Centers ALWAYS get more rebounds than PFs and are in position for more tips and putbacks.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can get Millsap and then trade him
he’d be a HUGE asset if he was locked into a decent contract.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thats what i'm wondering
a flurry of failed trades, but maybe there is a sign and trade possibility with millsap? is it possible that another team can’t afford to offer him an unmatchable contract (for Utah to take him back) so we need to offer him the bigger deal, and then the team that really wants him has the space to fit him in after a trade? Maybe it doesn’t work like that anyway, but that was the first thought I had.
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer trade with Chicago
storyteller floated the idea yesterday, then a few of us threw out some variations. Here’s mine
KP could sign Millsap, Utah would match and then Portland would use their capspace to help the Bulls and the Jazz flip Boozer to Chi-town and Hinrich to Portland
But I wouldn’t mind it if the Jazz don’t match and KP deals Outlaw for a reserve PG, like Keyon Dooling
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you think
that Chi-Utah-Portland deal could work out. All the way around, offering Millsap is a win, because we’re either locking up a good player at the expense of a division rival or hurting said rival by putting them in luxury tax jail.
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like how you think. We need a PF, not a second copy of Blake.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We might have 4
LMA, Pendergraph, the other 2nd-rounder (more of a 3-4) and Trout (also more of a 3-4).
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trout is a PF only in Nate's delusions; Cunningham is another Small Forward listed as a combined forward...
PENDERGRAPH is a true 4.
Is he ready for prime time?
If he is not and KP doesn’t come up with Bass or Millsap or Lee, there will be hell to pay…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Boozer-Hinrich deal happens
and I’m not saying that it will…
KP would still have Outlaw to pursue a PF, and there are at least 10 decent ones who have a salary that’s in Travis’ range (3.6 mil) Landry, Hayes, Thomas, etc
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but if Utah matches, Millsap is off the table. Either way, Hinrich +Bass or Millsapp = better than Hedo. While I’m much higher on Hinrich than you are, my point was the mere act of offering Millsap opens a lot of doors for the Blazers.
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 8, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Offer a 4 year deal, with 80% of the money in the first year. Match THAT Utah!
(i am kidding. don’t freak)
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
by TheTinfoil on Jul 8, 2009 7:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
unpossible!
maximum annual raises are 8%
/freak
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about annual decrease? any rule on that.. say sign him for 10 mil this year, then 8 then 6 then 4
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
first year has to fit in our cap space. that’s the cap criteria – first year salary
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm not sure about that
I’d just be worried that we wouldn’t be able to start at a high enough to lure him away from Utah.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
G.O.R. -
Yes, the restriction is that the annual decrease can only be the same as the amount of the potential annual increase (8% of the first year’s salary).
So if his first year was $10 million, the second year could go as low as $9.2 million, the third year as low as $8.4 million, etc.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, I use $10 million
as an ‘easy’ example in terms of calculation. The first year, as things sit now, could not be higher than $9 million unless Portland renounces Claver as well as Freeland and Koponen.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Milsap. Best Player Available. Fills a need for the backup PF.
Offer a front loaded incentive laden deescalating contract. An attractive tradeable asset in the future if it came down to it.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 7:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes Please
http://www.wagesofwins.com/Jazz600809.html
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 7:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Milsap is a rebounding machine
WoW weights rebounding very highly. Seems like a great player:
PER 18.6
13% ORB, 21% DRB
16 pts, 10 rb per 36 minutes
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
rebounds are extra possessions for your team and less possessions for your opponent. That’s why the blazers are so good, we were one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA last season. PER is a terrible metric because it overvalues scoring. You can increase your PER if you shoot 30% on twos just by taking more shots. Hardly anyone shoots under 30% on twos, so essentially you can increase your PER just by taking shots. And PER tells very little about a team’s wins. It is only correlated well with how good a player is perceived as being and how much money a player is paid. Not to mention that it’s virtually indistinguishable from NBA Efficiency despite being incredibly more complex. It’s just an awful way of telling how good a player is.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can we avoid the metric pissing contest?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to be uninformed? Yes.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must be a blast at parties.
There are no perfect basketball metrics. There are no worthless basketball metrics.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might want to read TominHawaii's basketball metrics before committing to the former.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap would help us in that regard.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not familiar with TominHawaii, but a google of "tominhawaii basketball metric" lead me to this:
Welcome to Baseball Prospectus’ Thursday April 09, 2009 1:00 PM ET chat session with Kevin Pelton.
tominhawaii (Honolulu): I think advanced stats are destroying half the fun of being a fan. I can’t say a player made a clutch shot or a is a good fit for a team without a “stathead” telling me I’m wrong and using a new stat to “prove” his point. Do you think there will be new stats to account for team chemistry, player roles, and other intangibles, or a compromise between stats and intangibles, or an apocalyptic future where stats become the only word in all conversations?
Kevin Pelton: Anyone who thinks the numbers truly prove points in basketball is not a true APBRmetrician. To paraphrase the great Bill James, the numbers suggest more than they prove. I agree that the zealots can make things less fun, but the great thing about basketball statistics is most of the time there is plenty of room for interpretation.
That said, when there are numbers easily available that do paint a pretty clear picture one way or the other, to be upset when they contradict your personal opinion is to be cutting off a chance to improve your understanding of the game. I don’t think that’s especially fun.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Introduced last year.
Will take the Basketball world be storm.
He explains it himself better here.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I am mistaken
There is a perfect basketball metric. Thanks for opening up my eyes T Darkstar.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The odd thing is that it worked better than Hollinger's playoff predictor
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 9, 2009 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good comeback.
I give you facts. You give me generalized statements.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha
look dude, I’ve taken several statistics classes during my undergrad, I’m a basketball geek, I read all the stats sites, even ones that I’m not a fan of. Pelton, Hollinger, Berri, Ma, Kubatko, Roland Beech, etc. When I open my second set of basketball tabs, 26 tabs pop up, most of which are APBRmetrics.
I am not uniformed. Each of the metrics offer something different. I have my preferences.
Ninjasocks said it well: “There are no perfect basketball metrics. There are no worthless basketball metrics.”
All that said, to quote men wiser than I:
Before I had studied Zen for thirty years, I saw
mountains as mountains, and waters as waters. When I
arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the
point where I saw that mountains are not mountains,
and waters are not waters. But now I have got its very
substance I am at rest. For it’s just that I see
mountains once again as mountains and waters once
again as waters.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Phil Jackson.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are no perfect basketball metrics.
There are, however, quantifiably better basketball metrics.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
consider points for, and points against
Occam’s razor, baby
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Occam's razor was whatever is simplest and does the same job at explaining something is better.
Hence, NBA Efficiency is superior to PER.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
simpler than that....outscore your opponent
nothing is better at describing wins and losses
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Hollinger run over your dog or something?
No need to be condescending because somebody likes PER more than you do.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 9, 2009 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to take up pitchforks and drive off PER from the village — it is completely garbage, pseudomathematization.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
points for:
statistical correlation between wins predicted and actual wins.
points against:
people don’t like being told when they are wrong.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Becaused this is not a settled field
only a nuanced view can appreciate each metric properly.
This is not a black and white settled issue. Metrics have underlying theories, underlying assumptions, inherent flaws. Because of the myriad of variables in basketball (pace, scheme, coaching style, individual talent, team execution, opposing defense, heart, etc etc) we will probably never come up with a single number that perfectly describes a player and what he brings to the table. Basketball is too complex for that. However, a single all-encompassing statistic is of limited value in any case. Situational statistics are far more useful.
Using situation statistics I can tell if a player is likely to be a good fit for a given system or scheme. For instance, Oden operates best off the left block .700+ fg% on the left block. Because of this factor, when we look at PG’s and SF’s, a good indication of how well they might fit is how well they shoot the three from the left corner. That way, Oden has someone to pass to out of a double team.
While I like Gerald Wallace, he only shot 30% on corner 3’s last year. Oden parked on the left block + the double team = not much room to drive. Therefore, if we were to get Gerald Wallace, he would be best served parked on the right corner and driving along the baseline of the swing pass OR making cuts to the rim from the right half of the half-court.
In this scenario, it would be important that whatever PG we get be a good shooter from the left corner.
In this case, situational statistics help explain how a player with a lower PER/Winscore/whatever, may indeed be a better fit and help you win more games because of a situational ability.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 9, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Little tidbit: Millsap's agent only has him and Nikoloz Tskitishvili as clients
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 8, 2009 7:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so he's used to small contracts...this could work!
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
by TheTinfoil on Jul 8, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plural?
I think that sig should read “Coolio’s sloppy second”
A three-pointer is not a "triple." A triple is a hit in baseball.
A three-pointer is not a "trey." A trey is either an ESPN sportscaster or something that bad spellers eat cafeteria food on. - Dave on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 PM PDT
by GustyJ on Jul 8, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
somebody just hit a walk off homerun
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
by TheTinfoil on Jul 8, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right... me!
A three-pointer is not a "triple." A triple is a hit in baseball.
A three-pointer is not a "trey." A trey is either an ESPN sportscaster or something that bad spellers eat cafeteria food on. - Dave on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 PM PDT
by GustyJ on Jul 8, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can't say mean things on the Bedge. I will ruin you in person, though, just you wait.
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
by TheTinfoil on Jul 8, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
I have that Buddy Christ figurine on my desk in my office.
Provides hours of fun for nickels a game!
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny
I rememeber Skita Time demanding a guaranteed contract when we invited him to camp a few years ago. The agent musta’ thought that was a good idea.
M—
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely!
I like this move WAY better than Turk and you now have a lot more trade scenarios at the deadline!
by PHXBlazerFan on Jul 8, 2009 7:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This could be a move to force Utah's hand where we win either way. We get Millsap OR we get other pieces we are targeting even if they match his deal
They were hoping to sign Millsap this year for the QO and then re-sign him next year as a UFA (but they would have had his Bird rights and Boozer/Kirilenko off the books). If they don’t match we end up with Millsap.
If, on the other hand, they do match, they will be highly motivated to move Boozer for nothing. We could turn Boozer’s salary dump it into a 3-way deal with Chicago (assuming the Bulls might want Boozer, not sure they do). We end up with Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas??? That would be my dream… maybe optimistic but not impossible. That wouldn’t be a bad consolation prize if Millsap’s offer is matched by Utah.
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 7:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like this logic
Seems like there is probably an advantage for the Blazers even if Utah matches. Not sure if Hinrich is my favorite scenario, but you have to figure KP and Penn have thought about the fact that Utah is likely to want to match and what it might mean for the Blazers after those cards are played.
by grigs on Jul 8, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
assuming the Bulls might want Boozer, not sure they do
They do. The Bulls have been looking for a low-post scorer…for years
Ric Bucher reported that yesterday Utah and Chicago were talking about a Boozer deal, but that they would need a 3rd team to help with salaries…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bucher reported it so now we know that they do?
I’ve heard the rumors. That is why I posted what I did. It makes sense. Does that mean I know the Bulls do this? NO! They have needed a scoring big for several seasons now. If the Jazz match, they have to have a deal to move Boozer it would seem. I think we can get Thomas out of the deal. Seems like most are just hoping to get Hinrich out of the deal. We send Blake to Chicago and Outlaw to Utah, Utah sends Boozer to Chicago and gets Outlaw and cap space to retain PM, Bulls send us Hinrich and Thomas.
We were supposedly going to send Blake/Outlaw for Hinrich anyway. This sweetens the deal for the Bulls. They simply get Boozer while giving up Thomas. We answer our needs at PG and backup PF.
I’m equally happy if we land Millsap and then perhaps attempt to trade JP in a package for a starting PG or SF. We win either way!
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were supposedly going to send Blake/Outlaw for Hinrich anyway
This is a Blazersedge proposal, repeated daily for 12 months. There is zero evidence that the Bulls have any interest in Steve/Travis, outside of (maybe) their expiring contracts
They do (and should) have interest in a low post scorer, like Boozer.
I like the idea of Hinrich and Blake. I’m not as interested in acquiring Thomas
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I strongly dislike Hinrich and Blake. Who creates offense with Blake/Rudy/Martell/bigs?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about calling a play and executing it well?
Like…Rudy and Martell coming off curls, and Blake delivering the ball to them on time?
It worked for Jack Ramsay.
And for Martell to the tune of 24 points in a quarter.
And for Rudy, last year
Pick and rolls and ISOs aren’t the only way to put the ball in the basket
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but someone needs to dribble penetrate in a lineup to make it effective in the high-low zone offense.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you should welcome a zone
when Blake, Rudy and Martell are on the floor together. They’ll shoot you right out of that zone and back into a man-to-man, in no time
KP and Nate like high% shooters. I like watching penetrators, too, but not guy like Miller or Sessions who doesn’t need to be guarded farther than 10’ away from the basket
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cablinasian said "zone offense"
I think you’re referring to a zone defense.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you use a zone offense
when facing a zone defense, it amounts to the same
two articles I’ve read in the last week or so lead me to believe that
1) the Blazers are not targeting a PG upgrade
2) when KP/Nate acquire players, they tend to look for shooters. (Especially 3 point shooters from the G-SF positions)
If KP acquires Millsap and immediatley deals Joel or LMA I’ll admit that I misread his intentions. But if Nate works LMA into the SF rotaton on a semi-regular basis I’ll just smile knowingly
(Remember, Hedo was 6’10…no, LMA doesn’t have Turk’s handles but then, he won’t need to)
length+shooting > PG upgrade…that’s how I’m seeing it transpire
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, I missed that inference
Anyway, I agree. The front office trusts Blake and wants to see what Bayless can do.
Also they are in love with lots of length, so LMA in spot minutes at SF could happen.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and don't tell me you'll be happy if JP is traded
Przy is the backbone of the team’s defense, you don’t “replace” that with LMA playing center
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m so sick of seeing Joel running isos during crunch time.
Inconsistency should not be someone’s bailiwick. We need more BBIQ, not less.
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
by 12sharks on Jul 8, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, what?
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
by pualo on Jul 9, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been proponents of a Przy for Battier trade on this site the last several days
Some respected individuals have been in favor of such a move. I think it makes way more sense with Millsap than it did with Lee. Just my opinion. I’m just fine if we keep JP. I worry he’ll opt out next year and we’ll have nothing for him if he leaves, but I’m perfectly happy if he stays. BUT.. I’m less concerned if he does leave if Millsap is on board.
by 52therim on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I started a "we need to get Battier" thread the other day
but I stopped short of putting Joel into a deal to acquire Shane.
Millsap’s arrival would not change that decision
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joel to the Rockets helps them more than Battier helps us,
especially since trading Joel weakens us at center. I don’t like helping the Rockets unless the trade is significantly better for us than adding Battier would be.
Joel could opt out of his deal and make more money, but he’d have to be willing to go to a team that needs him as a starting center. I think that is something he would like.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 9, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am making the assumption that Chicago needs a backup PG back if they send Hinrich out
Blake has been the guy in the rumors, but maybe it will Pargo. I’m not sure that makes as much sense as Blake.
I just don’t think we get Hinrich without sending Blake out.
by 52therim on Jul 9, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I'm not so sure that Blake and Outlaw get you Cap'n Kirk
not since the RLEC went away
maybe offering Rudy would get the Bull’s attention, but I think KP and Nate like Blake and want to see how Jerryd does next week
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why would Utah want to deal with us
after we just screwed them?
by BrewDude on Jul 8, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else can they deal with?
Memphis?
BTW, the Blazers traded up to 22 in the draft to move ahead of Sacramento. The next day, they traded Sergio to Sacramento. If you hold grudges, you don’t get very far.
by grigs on Jul 8, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
mem, sac, or okc
all can absorb contracts. none of them can offer expiring deals that also can actually play at a high level (outlaw, blake)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe KP just wants to make it as expensive as possible for Utah to keep Millsap
They will improve next year via NY’s first round pick anyway. Time to make them weaker either by acquiring their young prospect, or destroying any additional cap plans they might have had.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 8, 2009 7:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gathering assets = more options
KP would be very up front with Millsap before Millsap signed anything. If playing backup to LMA meant several more million dollars a year for five years, then why wouldn’t Millsap be okay with it? It’s not like he’s going to be playing for a contract next year.
Also, it is a lot easier to trade quality bigs for quality guards than the other way around. Who knows, maybe, just maybe, New Orleans (or some team like them) gets desperate enough with the projected decreasing luxury tax that they would be forced to shed serious salary and would be willing to take an Aldridge or Millsap + Bayless + Picks + Cash for Chris Paul.
Worst case is Utah signs the toxic (for them) contract and plunges deeper into luxury tax pain world.
by Blazer Fan in Chicago on Jul 8, 2009 7:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess after further consideration
If Millsap is okay with being a true backup and getting 20 minutes or less a night, this would be okay assuming all other deals have fallen through. He’s like that kinda okay girl you see in the bar at the start of the night and take home after striking out with all the hotter options.
Yes, I just called Paul Millsap a mildly attractive woman and said Hedo Turkoglu was sexy.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 8:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad to know KP is still showing up for work in the morning.
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
by TheTinfoil on Jul 8, 2009 8:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They'll match any offer.
And the Blazers probably know that, so perhaps they’re trying to force the Jazz as high into tax territory as possible. I’d love to get this guy, but there’s just no way Utah lets him walk. We can offer 5 years/50 million, and that seems like a bargain for your starting PF.
Interesting thought: If they do get him, does LMA become expendable?
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jul 8, 2009 8:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no..PLEASE no..
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
by philly420pdxhilo on Jul 8, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what we could get for him.
I would rather have one center and two 4/5’s though. Trading Joel would probably make more sense.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we get Millsap
I think the blazers will think about trading LMA for a PG
by kengriffey on Jul 8, 2009 8:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
pdxrob said it the best
LMA is going nowhere
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Aldridge is traded
I will slap KP.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right on da haid
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we get Millsap...
I think the Blazers will think about trading Millsap for a PG
by The Penguin on Jul 8, 2009 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea i could see that also
besides roy, LMA has most trade value being the blazers second best player
by kengriffey on Jul 8, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me, LMA
leaving would only be OK if we fetch a star PG (not rubio, rondo, anyone over 32, etc. And to fetch that we’d need to throw in another piece.
LMA+Trout+Bayless+Nic+pick for CP3…
Nah…
by The Penguin on Jul 8, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not for 60 days
or Dec 15th, whichever comes last
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right. This would seem to signal more toward a Przybilla trade.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or not
I like the “LMA playing 6 minutes per half at the 3” idea, better
The Blazers need to add toughness to the roster, not trade it away. And injuries happen, so don’t be so quick to deal Przy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
What “series of trades” was Quick talking about?
by BlazerBen on Jul 8, 2009 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gerald Wallace is one
idk what others
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd assume Kirk Hinrich was one
Maybe some Devin Harris feelers.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devin Harris for sure
But I don’t know about Kirk. The Blazers really don’t seem to like him for some reason.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare isn't a free agent
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Amare would want starters minutes and a max salary
If he didn’t get that, he’d throw a diva fit.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he wants only purple fruit
And flowers that start with C in the locker room
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's a silly head
Big ego, no defense whatsoever, etc.
Mo—
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stoudamire
Y’know- Damon’s boy
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love this
Millsap had a legitimate case to be an allstar over David West last year. He’s an outstanding player and we might get him at good value. Do we have enough minutes available? I dunno. I do know that I’d be offering NJ and LMA for Harris swap, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Anyway, it would create a logjam, but I can live with it because Millsap is an awesome player to have as your good backup 4.
by jksnake99 on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so then what? are we standing pat otherwise? do we have another plan for a trade? your thoughts jake?
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who knows?
I’d love to think we could still get Kirk Hinrich for Blake and Outlaw. I have no idea what KP is up to.
by jksnake99 on Jul 8, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just like what we were talking about
I’d LOVE to get Millsap with our cap space, because that is an incredibly fair deal for a guy as talented as him.
Want a banger? We got it. Want a guy who can also start at a near allstar level? Got it.
Big time rebounder and can score inside. Tries on defense, and plays tough.
Love it. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than David Lee.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a trade with Przybilla. Given that he’s potentially in the last year of his contract and going to be 31 next summer, that’s a smart basketball move. Millsap-Aldridge-Oden is three potentially all-star caliber bigs.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that makes sense
If you can get Millsap for a good value, I don’t have a problem with doing it, even if a ton of minutes aren’t immediately available. I approve of pursuing Millsap.
by jksnake99 on Jul 8, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
think of the 1 or 3 that could be had with Przybilla, Bayless, Batum, etc.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but why gut the roster
when it’s not necessary?
If Utah fails to match, then deal Outlaw for a 5th guard who can shoot (Dooling) sign Roy/LMA to extensions and get ready for training camp
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure there are enough minutes for four EXCELLENT bigs.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should clarify: I would LOVE to have all four. We would set NBA records for rebounding prowess. I just dunno if their egos would allow it.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I worked out a way to get them all minutes
LMA 36 mpg
Millsap 26 mpg
Joel+Oden up to 48mpg
the details are up above ^
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bigs should not masquerade as wings. We have enough talented wings, we shouldn’t take minutes from Batum, Rudy, Roy, and Martell just to appease LMA. I’d rather have an unhappy PF and good SF play than bad SF play and unhappy SFs.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have enough talented wings, eh?
So talented that KP tried like heck to sign Hedo?
Read this quote, again
“I don’t think they operate like everyone else, where they have to fit everyone into a hole,” Bartelstein said of the Blazers. “They work to acquire great, young players and they make it work. And that’s what I think they are doing, trying to get the best players they can. And if (Pritchard) has an over-abundance of bigs? That’s a good position to be in in the NBA.”
Big men depth is not a bad thing. I’m not trying to “appease” anyone. I’m putting 2+2 together. If KP/Nate are signing Millsap to an offer sheet, they’ve already had these discussions and I strongly doubt that “trading JP” is anywhere near the radar
Batum is young. Martell is hurt and can’t be counted on. Outlaw is trade bait. LMA can fill those “extra” SF minutes and the overall team will be tougher
Read Bartelstein’s quote again. Big men depth is not a bad thing
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say PF depth was a bad thing.
You’re making the assumption that LMA would play at 3.
I’m making the assumption that he wouldn’t, at least not regularly.
So it appears we are at an impass, as neither of us knows KP’s actualy thought process.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know KP likes Przy, a lot
and you think if Millsap comes, then Joel is gonzo
but its not necessarily so
And who’s to say LMA wouldn’t embrace the idea of playing some minutes at the 3? Float out to the perimeter for 6 minutes a half? That’s like him getting an extra timeout. And LMA could “sag” off the SF on the other end and dare him to shoot a long 2…not a bad idea
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have to trade Przybilla
Przybilla has the most limited game of the bunch, and at the moment is only insurance until Oden proves he can stay healthy. He has no problem with a 10-15 mpg role. And if anything, this allows him to be more aggressive on defense. His shotblocking numbers have regressed as he has had to stay out of foul trouble as a starter.
Further, I like Millsap for this team better than I do David Lee. Taking away from a division rival is just a bonus. I’d expect Utah to match though, as they have no long term plans for Boozer.
by Real 2K Insider on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They may match
but Millsap has the final say. Maybe he thinks his future is better with the Blazers.
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think his future would be better here
In Utah he’ll be the starter after Boozer leaves in 2010. In Portland he’d never be the starter unless Aldridge got hurt or for some godforsaken reason traded.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap doesn't have the final say
if Utah Matches, he goes to Utah.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 8, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
millsap does NOT have the final say
if we offer, and utah matches, nothing millsap can do but report to camp in Salt Lake
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shoot
nevermind then =)
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Jazz match, Millsap goes back to Utah
That’s the “restricted” part of restricted free agent. But I agree with Real. If the Trail Blazers sign Millsap, Oden, Aldridge and Millsap will get the majority of the time at 4/5, with Joel getting his time cut. I’d say 10-15 mpg would be about right, and I can’t imagine Pryz complaining too much, considering the team would be winning. But I think it would be an absolute dynamite move
I want Greg Oden to tuck me in at night and tell me stories about the old times
by Juiceman76 on Jul 8, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love Milsap, but I'm sure Utah will match. You can't have too many bigs.
by dario argento on Jul 8, 2009 8:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
unless they hate paying luxury tax
then he’s ours! – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a win, win, or win
I like it no matter what theoutcome…
1. Get a good player,.. He plays back-up minutes, or saves us in case of injury to one of
our frontcourt guys, or gives us twice as many trade possibilities at the trade deadline
(or even during next draft)
2. Utah loses a good player
3. Utah has to spend and or make some really tough decisions. (If this hapens we just
hang till a good deal comes up when some teams have to give in to economics)
Its all good!
by Rick_D on Jul 8, 2009 8:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep Aldridge
He compliments Oden a bit better than Millsap. Frontcourt depth is a plus since they get into foul trouble far more than guards.
There aren’t any PGs out there who’d be an upgrade over Blake. Harris isn’t a good 3pt shooter and most of his assists come off dribble penetration (you already have Brandon Roy). He’s a defensive upgrade over Blake, sure, but that’s not worth what Aldridge brings. You’d essentially be trading for the Dallas version of Devin Harris, not the NJN version.
by Real 2K Insider on Jul 8, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thaaaaaank you
I’m so sick of everyone thinking Devin Harris is holds our championship key.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm OK with the Dallas version of Devin Harris
He improves us on both ends of the floor. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap would be a fantastic fantastic fantastic use of our free agent dollars. He is a studly studly player…
I think this would be the beginning of the end for Joel Przybilla as a Portland Trailblazer… he would be a very attractive asset in a deal for a 1 or 3.
You know who is happiest about this news? Paul Millsap.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree! JP could be gone.
I have been opposed to moving JP with the idea of Aldridge backing up Oden. This deal changes that. Millsap is a rebounding machine. LA & PM frontline for 15 minutes a night would be just fine. Now go get Battier!
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 8:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
KP is trying to add toughness to the roster
So why would he deal his toughest player (Joel) away? Say it with me “big man depth is a good thing”
“I don’t think they operate like everyone else, where they have to fit everyone into a hole,” Bartelstein said of the Blazers. “They work to acquire great, young players and they make it work. And that’s what I think they are doing, trying to get the best players they can. And if (Pritchard) has an over-abundance of bigs? That’s a good position to be in in the NBA.”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been making the same argument when Dave spoke of trading Przy for Battier...
but adding Millsap changes the equation for me.
Battier + LMA + Oden = Very “tough” starting lineup
Battier + Millsap + LMA = plenty “tough” when we decide to go small
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Battier a lot, but I don't trade Pryz for Shane
I know Dave thinks Joel might opt out next summer, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joel and Blake get extensions, once Portland is over the cap and Roy/LMA get locked up
I think KP knows who he wants to go to war with. Millsap would be another warrior. If KP/Penn add that signing bonus to Paul’s offer sheet, then Nate will be ready to go into battle with 4 bigs who can foul hard without fear of ever getting disqualified. That’s saying a lot, come playoff time
Toughness and physicality, big men depth is never a bad thing
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
neither do I
here’s the deal: when Joel is on the team Greg will stay healthy. If Joel gets traded, Oden goes down with an injury. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I don't think he fills our biggest needs
I think he’s probably the best available talent left on the®FA market. I’d take him over Lee any day.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although Paul Millsap’s price tag originally was set by his agent at $10 million a season, the Jazz’s chances of re-signing the restricted free-agent forward for the midlevel exception of $5.854 million (and possibly even less) appear to be growing
The Jazz plan to make Millsap a fair offer, but will not overpay out of loyalty.
http://www.sltrib.com/jazz/ci_12789877
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy Shucks!
If this is true something is happening in the background. I’m sure there’s little possibility that KP is going to employ long term, two high quality PF’s. Makes no sense money or morale wise.
So which of the two, LA or Milsap is he planning to use as trade fodder and for what position, and WHO?? Of course he may not yet have all the answers in hand, but I’d bet my left gonad that his intentions aren’t to go the long run with both LA and Milsap.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Jul 8, 2009 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or they are two parts of a three big rotation, similar to those employed by LA, Utah, Cleveland, etc. Most of those teams have two power forwards and a center.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both Millsap and LMA can play backup center
As long as they are against other backups.
Depending on the matchup, they can handle some starting centers as well.
Millsap fills a need now (backup PF, more front court depth), and helps the post-Pryzbilla transition which will happen one day while we’re in the midst of our runs at a title.
At the very least, it’s getting a very good player for a very fair price. Can’t beat that!
Morty
by Mortimer on Jul 8, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus, 75% of the teams in the league don’t have a great center, and very few have two. If Oden is good, LMA/Millsap/Oden/some fourth big works just fine.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4th big: Pendergraph?
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does Utah trading for Hamilton accomplish anything?
They would still be over the cap, what am I missing here? How does this help Utah with regards to Millsap?
by calebEOC on Jul 8, 2009 8:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
they're in the luxury tax
If they can trim $5mil, the owner saves $10 mil.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
take milsap and trade joel
the more i think about it the more it makes sense. smaller powerforwards like milsap and big baby are having sucess in the league, and milsap would be awesome for our team. in regards to a new frontcourt i think a 3 man front of oden, aldridge and milsap would be great. it gives milsap the minutes he wants, the oppourtunity for oden to get as many minutes as possible, and same for aldridge, however i fear aldridge would have to play center too much due to oden foul trouble. milsap generates a lot of talk, which is always good for us.
by StocktonNEP on Jul 8, 2009 8:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes yes yes
this is sooo much better than Hedo.
"Ooo la la! The Blazers are le chic, no?"
by SabonisBonus on Jul 8, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to assume that we are at an even 50 million for payroll, just for simplicity’s sake.
If we renounce/trade for future considerations two of our Euros, that brings us to 8.9 million. A salary starting at 8.9 million, with the maximum 8% increases, would be as follows:
8.9
9.61
10.38
11.21
12.1
It would equal 5 years and 52.2 million. Consider that roughly the maximum offer Portland could make at this point.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the 8.9 million I borrowed from Quick, again, for simplicity. It might be a little off, considering his past calculations.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it's right on.
Just over $8.9 million in cap space if both Koponen and Freeland are renounced.
Here’s a bonus – Portland can actually go $100,000 over the cap to sign a FA. So, the first year can be the max of an even $9 million.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the whole thing is a ploy
to push Utah into a position of having to trade us Deron Williams.
“Ok Utah, we won’t force you to pay huge sums to keep Milsap, but you have to trade us Williams for Blake, Outlaw, and Mills.”
by superfly05 on Jul 8, 2009 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that would be so incredibly cool!
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Millsap....
But the most important question is, where does his wife want to live?
by FrenchieFan on Jul 8, 2009 8:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
NOT Utah.
Sounds like this offer is just about fool proof. Hopefully we actually get him, but just screwing over Utah would be fun, too.
by JK47 on Jul 8, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha yeahcmon now utah.. whast utah got other than mormons
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
by CroRupt on Jul 8, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some beautiful MTN's
But I don’t see Millsap on planks or a board.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On belay?
Some nice climbing right next to the city too.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats Utah going to do back to us to get revenge?
They are all good people any revenge wouldn’t go over well with their population.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 8, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny
Millsap’s from Grambling, LA. The Jazz once had another pretty fair PF who came out of that state
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jazz themselves came out of that state.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember those godawful uniforms
Rick Adelman played with Pistol Pete?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOJ/1975.html
A lot of former Blazers made their way down to the big easy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto screwed us into a far better deal!
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 8:53 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
If the Portland Trail Blazers want to screw with the Utah Jazz, then Tom Penn should create a deal for ...
Paul Millsap that includes a signing bonus worth up to 17.5% of the contract — which’d be paid upfront, but charged to the cap proportionally throughout the entirety of it — so as to all but ensure that those who head Larry H. Miller’s estate will balk at matching the offer sheet.
All in all, the Trail Blazers should renounce its draft rights to Joel Freeland and Petteri Koponen — which’d clear some more money from the books — and, in turn, tender Millsap the following five-year, $50,000,000 offer sheet:
Signing Bonus: $8,750,000
2009-2010: $7,150,000 (Cap Hit: $8,900,000)
2010-2011: $7,700,000 (Cap Hit: $9,450,000)
2011-2012: $8,250,000 (Cap Hit: $10,000,000)
2012-2013: $8,800,000 (Cap Hit: $10,550,000)
2013-2014: $9,350,000 (Cap Hit: $11,100,000)
Well, that’s that.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 8:54 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
that is brilliant AK. Had no idea about the rules pertaining to NBA signing bonuses.
That would really make it hard on Utah to match.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, when I read "toxic offer"
my first thought was that it includes that maximum 17.5% signing bonus.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as I said above
the first year can actually have a maximum cap hit of $9 million even. Portland can go up to $100,000 over the cap to sign a FA using cap space.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the absolute maximum we could offer, then, would be five years, 52.8 million, with a signing bonus of 9.24 million.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the first year is an even $9 million
It would be $52.2 million over 5 years, with a max signing bonus of $9.135 million.
The actual offer could be a few dollars more than that, but for simplicity purposes…..
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get
9
9.72
10.5
11.33
12.24
This equals 52.8. Just wondering what little detail I’m forgetting to calculate.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The raise is $720,000 each year
8% of the first year, not 8% each year accumulatively.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, thank you for clarifying.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think it is likely that we do the max escalator each year?
I would assume we would try to make the first year painful for Utah to match. Then make the last couple of years diminishing as we are likely to visit luxury land someday.
by 52therim on Jul 8, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone explain why a signing bonus is more toxic than offering the maximum of $9 million in the first year?
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jazz are already on the luxury tax brink. Thus, if they sign Millsap, it would be roughly 18 million. However, if we signed Millsap for a signing bonus and a little over 7 million, that’s about 15 + nearly 9 million in signing bonus money. Somewhere in the low twenties for Utah to pay, as opposed to high teens.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m actually not sure how the signing bonus works with the luxury tax. I think I have the basic premise, though.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have to pay the signing bonus upfront
Means that they need to come up with a lot more money this year than if we just offered a regular salary without a signing bonus (I think).
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that would be a $17mil poison pill for Utah to gag on
when that max bonus is combined with Millsap’s yearly salary
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Utah, at the moment they match, must pony up over $9 million in cash and pay it to Millsap.
They then must pay the rest of his salary (just over $7 million) over the course of the season.
Then they must pay $9 million of tax next summer, unless they can get below the tax threshold.
It’s the $9 million cash immediately plus having to pay $7 million for salary that makes it ‘toxic’ – it requires money upfront that the team probably didn’t expect to have to dish out this summer. And with the economy making money tight all around…..
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it sounds like
a part of a bigger strategy for sure
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does it have to be frontloaded?
Can’t we just do a deal that has incentives (BIG incentives) if he plays more than 20 games in Utah? Seems like someone did that a few years ago.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 8, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're thinking of the NFL.
I’m still furious about Steve Hutchinson, by the way.
by AK1984 on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Vikings fan, my in-laws are Seahawk fans
So…how’s Nate Burleson working out for you guys?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, thanks
Forgot that was Hutch.
That one hurt all right.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 9, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devils advocate
OK, I love the idea of signing Millsap, but why is this offer so great for us?
I doubt we’re actually going to get Millsap — Utah will match just like they said they would. The offer may be “toxic”, but so what? They’ll still match and then they’ll take their sweet time finding a taker for Boozer. No guarantees we get in on that action — the only way we benefit is by costing them a few extra million on Millsap. And we’ve tied ourselves up for 10 days with the offer.
by kennetha on Jul 8, 2009 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
who else on the free agent market is here that won’t be in a week? At worst, we make Utah really hurt financially and have less money going forward, especially when signing Ronnie Brewer and Okur.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
little risk in this move. we can wait a week. anyone who signs by then is not going to be a huge loss for us. And when they go to trade boozer, they are going to need a team who can absorb contracts. That’s us, Memphis, OKC, or Sacramento. None of the other 3 have other assets that are both expiring and can actually play.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
Yeah, i agree there’s not much risk here. Sessions could be gone, but we probably weren’t going for him anyway.
But Utah was going to have to deal with this problem anyway, right? We’re just making sure that they do.
by kennetha on Jul 8, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way we offer sessions
Bucks will match any offer he can get. there is no point
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good news, bad news
I think mostly I’m trying to prevent myself from going through another emotional roller coaster…
We’re going to get Millsap… Yay!
Oh no wait, they matched…. Boo!
But now they’ll have to trade with us…. Yay!
Oh no wait, they wiggled out of it somehow…. Boo!
by kennetha on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's never boring
well it has been a little tense, for the past week. But now the fun’s just getting started
“Doing nothering” was never an option. Waiting is always the worst part
Summer league next week should be fun. Not the games as much as “the commentary”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Bayless could become "another Sessions"
not the exact same skillset, but with similar impact. In a year or two
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 days.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 8, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like a pretty reliable player too (Injury wise)
Millsap had played in 194 straight games since being drafted by the Jazz in 2006, he missed his first game of his professional career on December 26, 2008 against the Dallas Mavericks due to a sprained posterior cruciate ligament injury in his knee suffered against the Milwaukee Bucks on December 23 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Millsap
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see this move as a vote of confidence for Greg
I think this opens up the trade possibilities for a definite upgrade at the PG position. The Blazers will have the option to trade Joel and add him to any offer for the PG target. Maybe that puts Harris (or another All-star caliber PG) on the board in terms of trade possibilities. With Oden put into a clear starting role, he gets the valued PT that he needs and hopefully Nate will give him some opportunities to play when he’s in a little foul trouble.
I also think that we get a backup 5 in a 3-team deal, someone who fills the role of a Mutombo who plays when the opposing team has a star big man, ala Dwight or Yao. Otherwise Milsap can take most of the minutes at the 4. Millsap is far better than Lee IMO, so I like this move more than a move for Lee, as you’ll be getting more value for the same amount of money.
Even if we just keep our frontcourt 4 man rotation he’s a clear upgrade to Outlaw / Frye in that spot, though I doubt that happens.
What are you impressions of Roy?
"He's just a very, very good basketball player. Very smart. Very heady. He can do a little bit of everything on the court. As coaches, when we scout Portland we kind of put him in the same category as Kobe (Bryant), LeBron (James), Dwyane Wade. We treat him the same. He's that good."
- Byron Scott
by CMCWizard on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
considering the snit NJ put up over Harris when they traded Kidd
I doubt they will give him up easily. With or without Lebron, they’re building that team around Devin Harris.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 10, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aldridge shoots too many jumpers anyway...
by thetsaiguy on Jul 8, 2009 9:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
on a team with Oden and Millsap, LMA’s range would be very valuable.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
you could play the 3 of them together, in fact
not all three starting, but LMA and Millsap at the 3-4 for 6 minutes a half would work out fine.
Then you can keep both centers. Big man depth is not a bad thing
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Six minutes a half of LMA at the 3? How would he guard Artest or Kobe? LMA is a big, not a wing.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
those 6 minutes
could be roy/batum/lma/millsap/5
move into a zone scheme
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
zone gets eaten alive more often that not. Works better in college.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it can really stump an NBA team once in a while
its not something you want to use on a regular basis, but it can be a nice change-of-pace that sometimes flummoxes a team.
by ninjasocks on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMA would not be the starting SF
most of those “6 minutes per half” would be against the opponent’s backup SF
LMA is a forward, not a center
and all those backup SFs will have to guard either LMA or Millsap at the other end
can you hear the opposing coach say "uh-oh, I better run my 2nd and 3rd string PFs into the game, or I’ll get killed down low?
If the other team goes small, Nate still has options. Don’t be quick to deal Przy away because it won’t be necessary. Big men depth is not a bad thing
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re assuming that KP is going to have four big men; I’m assuming that it may be a deal involving Przybilla for a 1. I don’t think either of us can continue this argument, as neither of us has the actual scoop from KP. It’s all speculatoin.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, what else is new?
Just be sure you know who KP’s “keepers” are. He will not deal Przy or Blake unless he gets an offer he can’t refuse (Harris, etc)
I think it’s more likely that Portland will add a veteran PG who won’t challenge Bayless for the #2 backup role. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if KP brings in a better starting PG than Blake, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, either
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP has been pretty much fouling balls off, down 0-2 in the count. If he can somehow land Millsap, it’s a walkoff homer. Great move.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
KP has been working the count...
Draft didn’t produce a hit, and neither has free agency…so I get the two strikes analogy. However, he isn’t facing an all or nothing at-bat, here. It’s still the third inning of a 9-inning game, and you only have to hit .300 to be an All-Star. Make one of those hits a home run, and you can be a Super Star.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Przy/Blake/Outlaw/______ (pick)
for
Backup Calibur C/Starting PG?
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Przy/Blake/Outlaw
for
M.Gasol/Conley Jr works
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nonononononononono
PRZY IS WAYYYY more valuable than that
by thetsaiguy on Jul 8, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno
Gasol certainly can score better than Przy, and if you look at his numbers, he was in there for a good number of O-Rebs. My question with that deal is more of how much do you trust conley?
If you add Gay and Martell into the mix, its still a successful trade according to trade machine. This creates
Conley/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Gay/Batum
LMA/Millsap/Pendergraph
Oden/Gasol
I think we’d be good with that roster
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick said that KP really likes Rudy Gay, today on 1080
here’s hoping we never find out “why?”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, even the Memphis Grizzlies organization isn't that inept.
Yet, that notwithstanding, I’ve got no desire to trade Joel Przybilla.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for DWill!
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What cap flexibility?
My apologies if I glossed over someone else’s take on this but I believe the following is a description begging the question:
The fundamental questions: Is this the guy you sink years worth of salary cap flexibility into…
It really doesn’t matter what the Blazers pay for Millsap, so long as he is worth it. From a salary cap perspective, 5/50 is worthy of his skills, and therefore his contract would be eminently tradeable. There is no downside to salary cap flexibility except in the short term (and certainly not “years” worth) in that lopsided trade opportunities are reduced.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the years are the years it took to create it not the forthcoming years. the flexibility refers to potential free agents or players available via lopsided trade. sorry that should have been clearer.
by Ben. on Jul 8, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That works
and definitely makes it a tough call.
Options make all the difference:
1) are there any realistic lopsided trades that can accomplish as much as this signing?
2) would this preclude upgrading the point guard position, if this is in fact, a necessary issue?
3) How much would Chicago pay for Millsap?
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap will be the new Brian Grant
Putback layups, getting loose rebounds with the crowd cheering in appreciation. All he needs is to grow some dreads.
by neutroticblazerfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I especially liked one of Pelton's comparables (above)
Millsap = Buck Williams, 1984
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a backup who, when starting, was better than LMA.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't go that far, but my thumbs are up that KP is FINALLY trying to fix the backup 4 nightmare, rather than chasing a 4th Small Forward...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he averaged 16/10 with three offensive boards. He was incredible when starting.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was quite good.
The thing I dislike most about him is his FT shooting, which is Shaquillian.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
70% is quite good for a rucking 4.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was low-60s.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
69.9%, if you want to get technical. He’s a very decent jump-shooter, certainly better than Lee.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have guessed 63%
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s DeJuan Blair with better defense, ACLs, and more offensive game.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
taller than Blair?
I figured both to be a little too short for the 4 in the NBA but Millsap makes up for it with energy. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing I dislike most about him is his FT shooting
No problem there, with the roation I outlined above, Paul would be out of the game during crunch time and still get 26 mpg
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap isn't better than LMA
Millsap went inside at almost twice the rate as Aldridge (relative to overall shot selection), but only netted 1.4 points per game more than Aldridge in close. Plus, Aldridge had a better on/off plus/minus, a better individual net PER (by more than 2 points), and has barely scratched his potential.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when STARTING, Millsap was better.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get into sample size issues when comparing 38 games to 81
Although I’d still be interested in seeing your source for comparing starter minutes to reserve minutes, the length and breadth of the total data still say that not only is Aldridge better now, he will continue to be. That isn’t to say there is anything wrong with Millsap, but LMA is a special player on another level, and he is still climbing.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMA is an inefficient scorer, average defender, and poor rebounder. He is not a special player yet, though he may become one.
Millsap had 16/10 as a starter, with similar per-minute stats to what he had coming off the bench. He’s a flat-out stud.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you are still beating a dead horse, and your just wrong
LMA was responsible for leading the Blazers to a NET PER that ranked 2nd in the NBA; Millsap’s Utah squad was 3rd.
However, we can ignore Boozer’s contributions and go straight to Aldridge’s overall production per 48 min and see that he was better by a full point (PER) than Aldridge, and kept his opponent down by a full point better.
Facts are facts.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts.
Millsap is a more efficient scorer and better rebounder, and was even better in a starting role.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've given examples of why this is a fallacious argument,
simple declarations are meaningless.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap plays low and LMA does not. If LMA did, it would be a different story.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're making my argument for me
LMA is a great forward, not a center. Can he score in the post? Yes, and he should. Can he shoot the ball with range? Yes, and that helps, too.
A front line of LMA/Millsap/Oden would be SCARY GOOD
Not all together in the starting lineup, mind you, but for just long enough every game to give the opponents some serious matchup headaches
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost hope we don't get him...
just so I don’t have to hear this argument over and over again.
Lamarcus is probably better right now, especially towards the end of the season. He’s harder to guard, creates more mismatches, spreads the floor more, runs the floor better.
LMA is not as good of a post defender, but he’s a much better perimeter defender and he’s better at stepping out on shooters. Covers ground quicker defensively too (IMHO), which should help his ceiling on the defensive end.
I would take Aldridge over Milsap everyday of the week, both for his current production and his higher ceiling, but I do think it’s close. As good as Milsap was playing those 38 games, Aldridge was playing better during part of that late season stretch. He looked like the best PF in the league for a few weeks there.
Certainly I would consider moving Aldridge if the right deal came along, knowing Milsap is more than suitable for the job.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just so I don’t have to hear this argument
but woudn’t it be better to compare them side by side?
It’s likely Paul’s "warts’ would be more magnified if fans got a close up view, a lot more often
I suppose there could be a “quarterback controvery” re: who should be playing more minutes at PF, but I expect the two of them will complement each other, very well
“the contrast of opposites creates harmony” – some Greek guy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There would be so much quarterback controversy.
And some of it would probably be justified.
I would love to have them both.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 9, 2009 3:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know why Aldridge has a better PER?
Because he took more shots and you can increase your PER by taking more shots as long as you don’t go below 30%. Your “facts” only show that LaMarcus is better at throwing the ball at the basket when he gets it. They don’t say anything about his efficiency.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Net PER
Shows how the Blazers performed at each position relative to their opponents
The Blazers were dominant at the 2 and 4 positions, ranking 3rd and 2nd in the NBA, respectively. As I said, this is is a convenient metric for comparing true overall contributions, regardless of the basic statistic the net is calculated from (PER).
The Blazers won for a reason – that reason was Roy and Aldridge, predominantly. They also did well at SF. They weren’t so good at PG and Center. I think center will take care of itself, whereas there is less confidence that Blake will ever be much better than he is now.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
check this out
http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR11.HTM
LMA took more shots at a lower percentage than his opponents at the PF position. Yet this raises his PER relative, since he’s shooting better than 30%. So Muad’Dib’s argument is still totally valid.
Look at this:
http://www.wagesofwins.com/AldridgeJan2009.html
(Sorry, I don’t have any newer numbers – where do you all get your per48minute numbers besides self calculation? Basketball-reference.com has per 36.)
Aldridge is below average at rebounding, drawing fouls, and at least for the first half of this season shooting (all per minute). But PER rewards his way-above-average field goal attempts. This is compared to the average production of the power forward position, per minute, across the whole NBA.
Aldridge takes more shots, gets a higher PER, shows up with a higher PER differential. Aldridge is a below average rebounder and below average at drawing fouls. Those are all facts.
It might seem like I’m pretty down on Aldridge. Not so – I basically just want him to rebound more, play more inside, use some post moves (drop step, jump hook) and generally more of a tradition PF role. Also, if he plays less minutes because we get a good backup PF such as Millsap, hopefully he could rebound at a higher rate.
PER overemphasizes scoring – so Aldridge made a big SCORING contribution. That’s all the Net PER shows. This is because he got a lot of shots. To couch it in economic terms, we’re looking at the marginal benefit (shots going in at a certain rate) without looking at the marginal cost (other shots that could go in at a higher rate). Also rebounding.
Anyway, sorry for the long disorganized post, and thanks for the civil debate. I get a bit worked up about PER, since it’s based on one man’s opinion instead of empirical data analysis.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You say "PER," I say "scoop-shovel"....
PER ——— scoop-shovel
PER ——— scoop-shovel
PER ——— scoop-shovel
PER ——— scoop-shovel
PER ——— scoop-shovel
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 9, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wages of win info per 48 is available on basket-ball reference.com
I have repeatedly qualified in this discussion – we are using one convenient summary metric (NET PER) for comparing the relative contributions of two players. NET PER removes the inherent offensive bias of PER by accounting for how opponents play against a particular position or player.
The basic idea here is that when unsubstantiated arguments are made such as Millsap is better than LMA, people need to accept that the best available information is better than no information, and attacking that information is nothing better than a straw man attack.
Dune fan’s argument still doesn’t hold water because he relied on incomplete data (red herring) to make an invalid rebuttal. All jump shooters are inherently less efficient than inside shooters. However, that extended range still makes Aldridge more valuable because he CAN get off a much wider variety of shots, and beat you with them. You can’t win relying exclusively on layups and dunks. You will get shut down.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 9, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To my mind, there were 3 big FAs that fit what the Blazers were lacking, which is a tough rebounding Power Forward...
My order of preference: 1. David Lee; 2. Brandon Bass; 3. Paul Millsap.
All of whom are Restricted Free Agents and none of whom are named Hedo Turkoglu.
I think Hedo was a fit for the Blazers, but what they’ve been sorely lacking is a backup 4 who is a glass-eating rucker.
Lee or Bass or Millsap — if the roll of the dice is on Pendergraph, KP damned well better be sure about it.
I think Millsap can be had because of Boozer coming back. He’s basically a backup to them and the Jazz are looking at $72.3M BEFORE figuring in Millsap — into luxury tax land. If KP can float $8M at him, that’s $16M to Utah, for all intents and purposes, which is serious cash for a backup, y’know.
Not to mention the fact they’ve also got Matt Harpring on the bench, who strikes me as a 4sie sort of guy…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But Millsap is FAR FAR better than Lee or Bass.
Millsap rebounds 17% of those available.
Lee 18.4%
Bass 13.4% (i.e. Channing Frye)
So the debate is Lee or Millsap. Millsap actually plays defense. Lee is abysmal on that end. Millsap actually has an outside shot. Lee does not.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I shouldn’t say he’s FAR FAR better than Lee. I mean to say he’s a FAR FAR better fit.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking 100% subjectively, as a low post fan....
I like Lee’s hustle and rebounding intensiveness. He LOVES to do it, just like Pryz loves to do it… And his offense is the most reliable of the three…
Bass struck me as a sleeper. If his employer weren’t Mark Cuban, I’d say go for him, but that honkey is cray-zeeee… Cuban would pay him $12M while in luxury tax just not to be one upped by Paul Allen, I think. He values money differently than normal rational actors, as the Kidd trade aptly demonstrated.
Utah does not have bottomless pockets, they are into luxury tax land, and Millsap (although their PREFERRED longterm PF) is a backup to them with Boozer coming back. That one feels right to me. He can be had.
Bass and Millsap are both excellent down low, the thing tipping me towards Bass being his FT shooting and somewhat superior scoring range.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I don't EVER want to hear you comparing Brandon Bass to Channing Frye again, or we are going to fight!!!!!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but that’s a good comparison, looking at career RB rates. Bass is a mediocre rebounder.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
13% is the definition of mediocrity. It screams LMA and Frye, not Oden and Millsap.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember Cab,
“Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within”
by Timmay! on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap scores more efficiently and is a MUCH better rebounder.
Also, Millsap loves to bang inside. That’s one of his strengths and why he is so awesome.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can agree that he's a low post player and is awesome.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he could teach LMA to box out by humiliating him in practice.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If LMA learns to do that, he becomes a black belt...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap vs. Aldridge 2008/2009
Aldridge against UTA
36.5 Min 20/4.8 (ppg/rb)
Millsap against POR
30.5 10.8/6.0
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
much of the time, LaMarcus was guarded by Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer.
LMA is a better scoring threat (though less efficient) and Millsap is a better rebounder.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is 100% right...
LMA is a better scoring threat (though less efficient) and Millsap is a better rebounder.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this as well
LMA is much more versatile and COULD conceivably improve inside. But this is so correct it makes me want to punch something…I think.
by austinpwnz on Jul 8, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone that takes over 60% of their shots "inside"
will have an apparent efficiency higher than an outside shooter. That does not make Millsap a truly more efficient scorer. He is not used as a go-to scorer. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.
Throw the red herrings out.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said he was a better scoring threat.
Yet, Millsap had a higher TS%. Maybe this is in part to LMA rarely rolling off the pick?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap is a 100% genuine authentic grump-certified Old School PF.
LMA is gonna be the mother of all 4s if he figures out how to play low while retaining his skills away from the lane…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Millsap having a limited offensive repertoire?
The point is not to overindulge apparent advantages in statistics. The truth is in usage and net productivity, where Millsap doesn’t really compare.
I like Millsap, I like him for the Blazers, I don’t like his game compared to LMA’s – it isn’t close
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They aren't the same, for sure. Millsap is a low post player and LMA tends to shy away from the pit...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complementary forwards
why not play ’em both…alongside Greg or Joel?
6 minutes a half, that’s all I ask. You might be tempted to play them together even more, once you see the results…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn’t really compare? They’re about a point different in PER differential at the 4, which can also be explained by Millsap’s low usage rate.. they factor that into PER, which has a lot of faults.
I fail to see how that is not even close.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Apparent advantage in stats"
Except in terms of PER, which is why you keep banging that dead horse of a limited metric.
Aldridge is just as limited offensively as Milsap, but possesses more potential because of superior physical characteristics.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well said. Thank you.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER has more limitations than NET PER
no statistic is an absolute. But if you compare net productivity between players, you have a much better sense of their total contributions. Usage, +/-, whatever – they all indicate that LMA is the superior player now, and for the projectable future.
If you don’t like NET PER, pick another summary metric. They tell a similar story.
Portland was second only to Dallas in outplaying their opponents at the PF position. Utah was third. Utah had two PF’s, Portland had one. It really isn’t any more complex than that.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about something that actually correlates with a team's wins for a statistic?
http://dberri.wordpress.com/
(BTW, it says our friend Paul is better than LaMarcus. Significantly so.)
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 8, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
red herrings are a disease
Wins produced on your link are available only for the first half of 08/09, which captures Millsap’s only strong months and completely misses Aldridge’s best months. If you want the total years, go to basketball-reference.com and learn that Aldridge was better than Millsap.
Most people don’t want to be convinced. Hence the prevalence of red herring diets.
Plus, you haven’t looked closely enough at my argument, which is based on NET PER. NET PER is much better than PER at correlating to actual wins.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 9, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I have been looking for a way to compare the halves of Aldridge’s season. Is there any site where you could separate those stats to get first half stats per 48 and second half per 48?
It’s unfortunate that Berri hasn’t made the spreadsheet for year-end wins produced, either.
But looking at their per-36 numbers on basketball-reference.com, Millsap still got 3 more rp36 and shot about .040% better.
Net PER has pretty much all the same problems PER has – it will still reward players who take more shots, even if they shoot fairly badly.
Also, please show me how well Net PER correlates with wins – because I am absolutely certain that Wins Produced correlates more closely.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah, they'll put Paul and Greg opposite one another in scrimmages
and then charge admission for fans to watch those wars
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap is a lot better than Lee or Bass.
by jksnake99 on Jul 8, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
100% Agree
Lee is very overrated and Bass is okay. I like him, but he’s the 3rd man in this debate, but the guy I’d want over Lee if we can’t get Millsap. He’d always be okay being a backup and all that noise, while Lee won’t.
Millsap is too good NOT to get!
Morty
by Mortimer on Jul 9, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray for mobile comments
And, Millsap is a catch in my book. KP, make it so!
by david1978pdx on Jul 8, 2009 9:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Here's our basic roster if we do sign Millsap
PG: Blake/Bayless
SG: Roy/Fernandez
SF: Batum/Webster
PF: Aldridge/Millsap/Outlaw
C: Oden/Przybilla Looking at that rotation, we would have turned our backup pf spot from a weakness to a great strength. So we’re set at sg, pf and center. Point guard and small forward are now the only two spots of weakness. Knowing that, we also need to trade Outlaw (obviously) since there will be no minutes for him and his days in Portland are all but over. If we trade Webster as well, Batum could start at small forward and Millsap could play a lot of his minutes there while Aldridge is in the game. Therefore, all we need to trade for is a starting pg. At that point, KP should be on the phones seeing what is the best pg he can get for Outlaw, Webster, Blake or Bayless, draft picks, cash, etc. So if we got Millsap and made a trade of that variety for a starting pg, we would be set for a long run into the playoffs.
by GregOden15ppg on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Millsap could play a lot of his minutes there while Aldridge is in the game
Flip that around, LMA has more of a SF game than Paul. But you’re right, the two forwards could play together even when either Joel or Greg are in the game. This rotation would also strengthens the SF position.
Then trade Outlaw to NJ for Keyon Dooling, a reserve PG who shot 40% from 3 point land
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's 11 guys
12th guy is either Mills or Pendergraph.
I like it a lot! – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now this move makes much less sense than Bass
seeing that Bass would much more likely play a backup role. also, if we get millsap, maybe KP is trying to move aldridge in a package for a chris paul/devin harris caliber PG?
by thetsaiguy on Jul 8, 2009 9:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummmmm, no.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg is 21
LMA is soon to be 24
Millsap is 24
Przybilla is soon to be 30
One of these things is not like the others.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg hasn't developed yet
You fans are a whole lot of traitors, caught up in this business mindset. Trade Przybilla? He’s been the most loyal, hardworking guy on the team.
by thetsaiguy on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a traitor. Would Przybilla be a traitor for opting out next year? I think not.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
If Pryz could make more money/start somewhere else (a pretty reasonable proposition given the state of the 5 in the NBA) nobody would fault him for it. Plus, his trade value will probably never be higher given the season he just had. Not saying Portland should jump at the chance to deal him, but if someone is willing to part with a long term starter for our valuable, but potentially short term backup center, KP should listen
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what's to prevent KP from extending Joel before next summer...
Once the salary cap wall is breached?
Absolutely nothing, as long as Paul Allen approves
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Course not
but the fans have no place falling into the business mindset.
by thetsaiguy on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont care if we hurt a players feelings as long as our team gets better
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP cares
that’s why he has put together a team that the fans love to root for
(and don’t bother mentioning the name Fred Jones, Przybilla and Blake are far beyond that category of “loyalty” when it comes to KP)
I could see KP “maybe” trading Joel in a few years, but if Przy retires as a Blazer with 3-4 rings, would all that big men depth still be considered a bad thing?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GooD point
One other point I was thinking Prizz may not be the one moved how about Aldridge he has alot of value could land a top PG possibly. I would think someone like Rubio easily. that is the smart move if we get Millsap right L-TrainFTW?
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 8, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want "smart moves"
I want 4 big men who can rebound, bang and foul hard come playoff time
Jerome Kersey on Talkin’ Ball tonight agreed, BTW. He was all over getting Brandon Bass, but when he hears about Millsap he will go “crazy”
Mercy, mercy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I smell what you're cooking tsaiguy
As a fan, I’d much prefer watching the same core make title runs with only the outer periphery in flux year-to-year. It’s just more fun that way. Pryz feels like part of the core at this point.
Besides I don’t think packing the gorilla for an ‘upgrade’ at the point would be more valuable than having what could be the best frontcourt of this generation if we land Millsap. Blake/Bayless and of course Roy can get it done at PG with Oden/Pryz/LMA/Millsap down low….Rudy.Batum….Dear god that would be a force. Instant contenders. Bigs win titles moreso than outstanding PG play.
by mathrockerpdx on Jul 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's gotta be more to this
no way blazers are going to pay 10 mil a year for 10-12 minutes a game!
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it’s about acquiring an asset.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not necessarily. It would make LMA and Joel instantly more viable as trade options.
Maybe no trade is made this year. So what? We have four very attractive big men as assets.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep them all for as long as possible. win championships.
I’m betting Pryz has an ego that will allow for a cut in minutes if it means he gets rings. Plus he can unleash the beast on D with no fear of foul trouble.
KP, make it so
by mathrockerpdx on Jul 8, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryz has an ego that will allow for a cut in minutes if it means he gets rings
For sure. The reason Joel signed the LTC a few years back is because he saw the future that KP was building and wanted to be a part of it. Even though the team was the pits at the time. (You could even say that Przy was the first “piece” to KP’s puzzle, before Roy and Aldridge, even)
So, why would KP “reward” that kind of loyalty with a “convenience” trade right when the team is on the threshold of contending?
Don’t trade away toughness, collect it
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice handle Mathrockerpdx
I love math rock. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
refresh page for massive update with comps from kevin pelton
by Ben. on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
YES!
happy days are here, again!
as long as the Jazz choke on that poison pill and spit it out
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
swallow the pill Jazz!
Die, Utah Jazz! Die! – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont believe Jason Quick on this one.
The only reason he’s saying tis is because Millsaps agent never returned a message.
by Kosta0027 on Jul 8, 2009 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the more I read Quicks article...
the more I think it’s planted information by the team to force Utah’s hand. It all just sounds too good. Maybe it’s just me, but “lot’s of money, happy to play backup, etc.”. I don’t know, but it sounds like a slap in progress.
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mistake
I think this is a bad idea. Why would we put all this money into one position. We already have the PF we need in LMA and I think we also have are backup in Pendagraph. Remember the Blazers were so high on him they traded up to #31 to get him and make sure they got him. Plus by giving Milsap all that money it will come up to about 1/3 of our money is in one position and that isn’t very smart.
by RipCityforLife on Jul 8, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Big man depth is not a bad thing
I may need to make this my new signature, but I like Yoda-speak too much
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oden/Pryz/LMA/Millsap
I don’t care if it’s spendy, they have the money to do it, and that is the best frontline any GM could ever ask for (within reason)
by mathrockerpdx on Jul 8, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bear with me: what if Millsap was really open to playing twenty minutes a night? Heck, he’s secure long-term and getting paid far better to be in Portland than in Utah.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
nowai
That is impossible!
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
should I have thown a j/k at the end?
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't confuse me like that, Royby.
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If i was a betting man
i’d say millsap plays for the jazz next season. they like millsap more than boozer and are actively trying to trade boozer to make room for millsap. this is boozers last season in utah so if they lose millsap, they have nothing. but the question is, why would the blazers want utah to trade boozer? blazers could be involved in a 3 team trade. or maybe they are just jacking up the pricetag
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Boozer to Chicago
Hinrich to Portland
KP helps out with cap-space
it could happen, or maybe KP really wants to add toughness to the roster, like he’s been saying since the end of the Rocket’s series?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't Utah over the cap?
So they would have to give Boozer away for non-guaranteed contracts to justify a Millsap signing.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 8, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah is at $73.0 before Millsap, I think I just saw on Storyteller's site...
Which means they are ALREADY into Luxury Tax.
Have a nice day, Jazz…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and enjoy watching that coyote ugly AK47
all of you cow-bell-ringing Utah fans
(We’ll just take that banger off your hands on the way out of town…)
I suppose it’s karma for all of the times the Mailman hit a Blazer player in the face with his elbow and earned yet another trip to the FT line…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't jump all over me and excuse my ignorance of Milsap's game, but can he play the 3?
by Sonic Boom on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Paul's like Buck Williams
But LMA is versatile enough to fill a role like…Cliff Robinson
(except in the 2009-2010 version, “Uncle Cliffy” starts and “Buck” comes in off the bench)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here'd be the frontline rotation if the Portland Trail Blazers bring Paul Millsap into the fold.
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
First 6 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: Paul Millsap
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
First 4 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: Paul Millsap
Next 2 Minutes
C: LaMarcus Aldridge
PF: Paul Millsap
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
Once Greg Oden refines his game a notch and reduces his propensity to foul at a high rate, he can supplant Joel Przybilla in the starting lineup. Meanwhile, though, I want the Trail Blazers sign a backup point guard like Anthony Carter; he could effectively run the pick-‘n’-roll with Oden when Brandon Roy is resting on the bench.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
going with Blake/Carter is not a viable long-term strategy.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw would be traded for a certain person from Chicago in my scenario.
Victor Claver’s draft rights, a 2010 second-round draft pick, and $3 million in cash considerations — as well as Jerryd Bayless, albeit only as a last ditch effort in negotiations — could all be added to the deal.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
blake/outlaw/cash and no more for hinrich
throwing in Bayless? too much
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if there was a spectrum of Jerryd Bayless fandom I'd be on the end opposite of Ben.
Aside from that, however, I can understand that most folks wouldn’t want to part with Bayless in that case.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
im probably in the middle on Bayless
but I don’t think KH is enough of an upgrade to warrant sending 3 players, including one of our sophomores who may or may not greatly improve this year. i’d hate to be wrong. its not worht the gamble in my opinion
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if ya hate Bayless (which is fine)
SURELY you admit he has value league wide and thus it is folly to use him as a throw in to a trade.
Morty
by Mortimer on Jul 9, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you get the 3 mil$
Once Portland goes over the cap to sign Millsap?
(Paul Allen can pull that kind of money out of his wallet on draft day, but I think the NBA would frown on payola being introduced into a trade when both teams are over the cap)
Besides the 7.6 mil of expiring contracts that Blake/Outlaw offer them, exactly where do Steve and Travis fit into the Bull’s plans? Especially now that Pargo has been signed?
Blake+Outlaw = Hinrich looks nice as a concept, but it takes 2 willing parties to complete a trade
Now, Outlaw for Keyon Dooling is a trade that would help both teams. Simple and elegant
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh. Micromanaging hypotheticals...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's what we do
do you think that KP and Nate haven’t been all over this ground, already?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carter? Really?
Running a pick and roll. I’d rather have Bayless attempt to bull his way to the hoop. I’m not a big fan of Bayless at PG either.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Brandon Roy is resting on the bench, I'd rather watch Anthony Carter feed Greg Oden on ...
the pick-‘n’-roll rather than see Travis Outlaw try to create his own shot and shoot inefficient jumpers.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand your inexplicably man-love for Anthony Carter.
A similar sentiment shared by Nugget fans toward George Karl.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Math.
Jazz look to keep less costly Millsap: The forward’s options with big spenders appear to be dwindling elsewhere.
By Ross Siler, Salt Lake Tribune
* * *
As it announced new salary-cap and luxury-tax figures Tuesday night, the NBA sent a sobering memo to teams, raising the possibility they could see dramatic dips in those numbers next summer, possibly as low as $50.4 million and $61.2 million, respectively.
“I think they alerted us to that being a possibility,” O’Connor said. “Look, we’ve all got to adjust to the economic conditions that are going on. It’s not just the Jazz. It’s all of LHM [Larry H. Miller companies] and it’s all of the state of Utah.”
The Jazz have $32.8 million in salaries committed to Andrei Kirilenko and Deron Williams alone for the 2010-11 season. * * *
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wouldn’t hurt to make Utah worse and us better at the same time.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steal FAs from the West and trade to the East...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
get Hinrich for Outlaw and Blake, sign Millsap, and you’re looking at the best big rotation in the NBA and the best starting backcourt, sans maybe Orlando.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AND a depleted Utah team.
win-win.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But one thing people are ignoring
The Jazz REALLY wants Millsap. so much that they’d trade Boozer for almost nothing to sign him.
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sweet, then we are driving up their price to pay for Millsap and decreasing their chances of keeping both Brewer and Okur.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this is a sneaky play for Deron Williams.
His contract is huge, but maybe if they want Millsap so bad, it forces a trade with us sending Outlaw to Utah for Williams? Too lazy to do the math, any idea of whether something like this would work?
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s like us trading Roy because we want to keep Przybilla.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the fact that we can afford the cap tax.
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but I’m speaking in talent terms. They won’t trade their better player to keep a lesser player.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Typically, sure, but in these economic times
no telling what can happen. But, Millsap is a young, borderline All-star, while Joel is great, but not an All-star. It would almost be like trading Millsap back to them with Outlaw and Blake/Bayless for Williams.
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right,
just trying to think out loud
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Utah Jazz won't trade Deron Williams, pure and simple.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat. He is their Brandon Roy.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The two teams
that are involved in boozer trade talks are the bulls and pistons. bulls have hinrich and pistons have prince. in a three way trade the blazers would get either prince or hinrich, the pistons or bulls would get boozer, and the jazz would get cap room and maybe outlaw or blake
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does that make Millsap a max pay player
for Utah if they match an offer of something like 10 mil? Wouldn’t they have to pay his matched salary and the the dollar-for-dollar tax? If so, would Millsap be worth $18-20 mil for next year, for Utah??
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes?
Yes, that makes them way over pay for him next year, or yes he’s worth the $18-20 mil?
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read wrong
The math further up shows our “toxic deal” could cost Utah up to 22 million if they match
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which would be way overpaying
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
REALLY?!?!
Holy crap, no way they match unless they can dump Boozer ASAP! This is probably a great move, whether we land him or not, it forces the action to a division opponent.
by oregon_fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it's basically a win-win for us
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they have to GIVE AWAY Boozer to save his salary. Realistically, they are going to have to wave bye-bye to Millsap.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good call Timbo!!!!
Utah isn’t going to resign Milsap and then trade Boozer for another highly paid player and be boozerless with the same salary situation…they either have to find a 3 way trade partner to get rid of Boozer or wave bye bye to Milsap
by Matt Daddy on Jul 8, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad we can't shaft the Lakers like that.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 8, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that comes later
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait Time After Making Offer
Isn’t July 15th the real date that another team would have to match any offer by another team? My understanding is that waiting 10 days only applies to offers made with 10 days or more before July 15th. In other words, if the Blazers made Milsap an offer on July 9th the Jazz would only have 6 days to match, not 10. Is this correct?
by Original Blazer Fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Utah has 7 days to match
No more, no less. Just like with every other restricted FA who signs an offer sheet with another team.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic just got a giant $10 million trade exception as part of a 4-way trade.
They could be on the market to rent Boozer for a year. Orlando might be adverse to paying Hedo long term money, but a one year rental for Boozer is enticing.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he doesn’t really work with their 1-in, 4-out offense, though, does he?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer moves into the PF, slides Lewis back to SF, and moves Carter to SG.
A starting lineup of Howard, Boozer, Lewis, Carter, and Nelson is worth it.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Orlando Magic already have Rashard Lewis and Ryan Anderson at power forward.
Unlike Carlos Boozer, Lewis and Anderson actually fit within Stan Van Gundy’s spread offense.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic can win without a spread offense.
Run a more traditional set offense especially with talent like that in the starting five.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed that one
Are they trying to include Turkoglu in the Marion deal to get Orlando a TE?
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway, a $10 million TE
could not get Boozer since he’s making $12.3 million this year.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, they have to throw in a filler.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't add a filler to a TE to get player back
TE have to be used in 1 for 1 deals
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
It is impossible to get a $12.3 million player and use a $10 million TE.
by Storyteller on Jul 8, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mistake. Thanks for the clarification.
I wonder if the Magic can rent a player for $10 million at the trade deadline.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blazers are forcing the Jazz to trade Boozer.
They are jacking up the pricetag so utah has to get rid of boozer to sign millsap. 3 team trade involving Portland, Utah, and Detroit/Chicago. Blazers have already been linked to Hinrich and Prince, who are obviously on chicago and detroit, respectively.
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They will have to GIVE AWAY Boozer, since they need to lose the salary...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more from quick
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/07/blazers_gm_pritchard_faces_sle.html
by Ben. on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Either Pritchard is stupid or Quick is a liar
No way they would be haggling over giving Roy 4 or 5 years, doesn’t make any sense.
by neutroticblazerfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will lean towards
Quick is lying/exaggerating about difficulties signing Roy. Man is so damn negative sometimes……
by neutroticblazerfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER Brandon's deal needs to get done right now. He is under contract for the year and the Blazers are OBVIOUSLY gonna max him out when they need to.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh
that was a brutal article…. can Pritch Slap Quick?
by TrailBlazer4Life on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the meantime, the word is the Blazers are staying up late into the night throwing around ideas.
They’re not the only ones
All the while, the golden aura that once surrounded Pritchard dims
Sounds like Jason has been reading some BE fanshot rants?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he's on vacation and Canzano is ghosting for him.... That's actually not a bad theory...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blogfather made the point that...
With the cap coming down, players looking for contract extensions actually have strong economic reasons to sign shorter deals. And he used B-Roy as the example:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-41/The-Silver-Lining-of-the-Salary-Cap-Cloud.html
by conspirator5 on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what I'm saying is maybe it's ROY who wants the 4 years, not KP.
by conspirator5 on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps, but that is Not what Quick says...
“Word is that Roy wants to sign for the maximum allowed five years, but the Blazers only want to commit to four years.”
by jstbeachy on Jul 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, that just makes no sense.
The only way for this to be true is if somehow the deal that makes the best long-term economic sense for Roy makes really bad short-term economic sense for the Blazers balance sheet. I don’t know enough about the economics to make sense of that…
So for now I’m just going to have to accept that there is something broken in Jquick’s reporting, up to and including the team deliberately feeding him bad information in order to continue the “smoke and mirrors” project.
by conspirator5 on Jul 8, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are they doing to Roy???
Give the man what he wants!
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 8, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way should
KP be hesitant on giving roy 5 years. ridiculous… i hope this isnt true
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to worry about.
Roy will get his money. Making a mountain out of a molehill.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you know if there is anything to this?
Or is quick trying to stir up something that doesn’t exist?
by ppilot on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you really think broy and la won’t be blazers long-term? what’s the point of having a team if you don’t keep them. just give up.
by Ben. on Jul 8, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last week has put a lot of people on edge....so second guessing is becoming more and more prevalent
Good to hear though
by ppilot on Jul 8, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick's just trying to sell fishwrap
and Canzano will be driving his ratings with this “Blazers are dissing Brandon” take tomorrow from 3-6
I only hope Jason got the Millsap “rumor” right. It would suck if he just made it all up.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they mess things up with Roy, I am going to go on a rampage. Emails, tweets, and voicemails.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chill, Cab. He doesn't have to get done for weeks or months... KP has other fish to fry...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give him til Oct. 31st. If he doesn’t get extended by then, I’ll be a very unhappy Blazer fan.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like prolonged contract talks can derail a young team
Oh wait……….
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
although Paul Allen isn’t exactly Reinsdorf. Quick hasn’t been right in so long that I’m not too worried.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was more of a joke, Paul Allen seemingly doesn't care how he spends his money
Beat writers being bad at their jobs is nothing new, however.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
what more, exactly, does he need to do to get a 5 year max deal? Its madness.
by jksnake99 on Jul 8, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon could kickstart the world economy
that would about do it. Get to work, Roy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, we're only a 1st round playoff team, Jake
Ya don’t give max money to a guy who doesn’t take you out of the 1st round.
TRADE ROY, his ego has gotten too big for his britches. Rudy is better anyways.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jul 9, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there is one reliable source that Quick has it's Roy.
not saying Quick isn’t exaggerating things, but…
by PoliSam on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow.
insane. Roy, instead of dong the LBJ/Wade/CP3/Deron move of going for 3 years, actually wants to sign for the full 5 and we are hesitant? if true, im shocked and awed.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 8, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
Roy will be resigned for the max deal.. Aldridge will get his 4 years, 11 million (at least). I’m not worried about that.
My concern is how poorly the acquiring of extra talent has gone. He could have traded Raef and spare parts for Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter, Gerald Wallace, Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng, or Amare Stoudamire. Instead we “went to war” with the team we had with visions of making a splash in the free agent market.
Well?
Now our best case scenario is paying $8+ million for a backup PF (Millsap). We lost out on Hedo Turkoglu, who isn’t in the same league as most of the guys we could have traded for.
Basically, this year’s free agent market was weak to begin with. It’s hard to make a splash if there’s no water in the pool
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's running the contract extension talks when it comes to Brandon Roy?
I’m not sure if I should place blame on Paul Allen, Kevin Pritchard, or both men, but somebody is being a complete and utter nimrod if they’re unwilling to offer Roy a five-year, maximum-level contract extension.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honest to God
If KP screws this up….
It doesn’t matter what kind of draft day trader he is, if he can’t just sign Roy and LMA…
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That has to be wrong
young superstar player, rich owner, and the TEAM is the party pushing for a shorter deal. I think Quick is being fed some misinformation here. That or KP has lost his mind
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
by blazeraddict on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Quick's writing makes the blazers seem like a soap opera. He really thinks the blazers are refusing to give Roy a max contract of 5 years? Ludicrous.
by dario argento on Jul 8, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how else will Jason ever win a prestigious writer's award
he should write more about himself
in short sentences
and mix in a few human interst stories
and include himself in all of them
(your dog knows it)
yellow
hummers
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 9, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to overreact or anything but
honestly, what has KP done outside of draft day? he is great at the draft but thats it. he’s great for a rebuilding team but im not sure he’s good for a team looking to get over the hump
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
its not too ridiculous
to think teams just don’t want to deal with him….if its not a blow you away deal, with KP, its no deal
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
32, 41, 54, ??
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is great at rebuilding
but getting from where are now to a championship caliber team is a whole different animal
by axel360 on Jul 8, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's premature to judge him otherwise.
Next year could be a breakout year. Who knows? I do know KP has an awesome track record. There are not many GMs I would rather have at the helm.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 8, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how bout you judge him after a season where the blazers haven't completely exceeded expectations?
32 to 41 to 54 plus a first round appearance, HCA, tying Denver for the lead in the division. Yup, that’s the mark of a terrible front office that has absolutely no idea what it is doing. Dude, I hate to get insulting but you are talking like a faker fan.
And before you get angry for my comment, consider that it may have been wiser to state your reasons that you believe he has suddenly “lost his touch”, especially when the on court product for the past 3 years has been steadily (and rapidly) improving.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
by premthegrem on Jul 9, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's the benefit of the doubt.
Aka rec.
by austinpwnz on Jul 9, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not like KPs been running teams for decades
this is the first time he’s been in charge of a championship calibur team.
by pdxlifer on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i don’t think our organization is stupid enough to risk losing roy over 1 extra year.
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if we get millsap
we trade pryz for battier.. make sense they need center we fill SF
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
by CroRupt on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
what if oden doesn't develop like we hope he does this summer?
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
then u got urself a undersized Center
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
by CroRupt on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you're screwed anyways
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had 54 wins with injury-plagued Oden last season. Even if he doesn’t develop I would assume that our win total would increase next year, as long as we keep Joel.
EAT IT GOOD.
by L-TrainFTW! on Jul 8, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not winning a title without Oden becoming an above average starter
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No playoffs without Joel
if Oden misses 20 games again.
by GMan83201 on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Joel Przybilla shall stay here through at least the remainder of his current deal.
As it stands, Przbyilla will be an important cog in the Trail Blazers machine the next two seasons. I, of course, value interior defense as much as anybody around Blazersedge.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, at some point you take the leap of faith in the #1 pick
Pryzbilla’s value will never be any higher, and will be coveted by pretty much every team in the league.
Of course, I say this in a situation where the Blazers have Milsap, Oden, and Aldridge. Sign Rasho Nesterovic or Nazr Mohammed as a backup, the drop-off won’t be bad.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 8, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if Nazr Mohammed wasn't under contract, I wouldn't target him for a ...
backup or third-string spot at center. Yet, on the other hand, Rasho Nesterovic would be the optimum third-string pivotman on this team. I think he’ll manage to land a backup role somewhere, though.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we traded Przybilla, Rasho would be a nice option.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 8, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to sign Rasho Nesterovic, but only as a third-string pivotman ...
at a two-year, minimum-level contract. That’s not something Nesterovic would agree to contractually, though, so it’s a moot point.
Regardless, I’m of the mindset that the only two players more important to the Portland Trail Blazers than Brandon Roy and Greg Oden — who are the franchise cornerstones — is the “Vanilla Gorilla” Joel Przybilla.
Yes, I’m probably in the minority here; that’s perfectly fine by me, though.
by AK1984 on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there's one thing I can glean from your posts
It’s the desperate need for acceptance by the Blazer maniacs, leading to the acceptance of every status quo thought.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.