It is all about the Blazer's sophomores
It is time to take a break from all the endless speculation about the draft, free agents, and trades. Let's talk about something that really matters: the development of the teams outstanding collection of sophomores. I would argue that the development of these four guys is a lot more important to the teams future than any single player we may acquire with our cap room.
What follows started as a response to Dave's front page piece. It just got too big to post in that thread. I realize that it is generally bad form to duplicate front page material in a Fanpost, but I have been thinking about making a post along these lines for some time now. Hope you all understand, and hope this provokes some good discussion. In particular, I am interested in hearing other peoples takes on the chances that our sophomores will grow up to be the big men on campus. More after the jump
Fifteen years from now when we look back at this era of the Blazers, I think we will see that the future of the team rested on the shoulders of our four sophomores. At this point, we know who Roy and LMA are, we may not know exactly how far they will develop, but the general outline is there for all to see.
What is less certain is the development of our four sophomores. If everything goes well, and all four reach their full potential, the Blazers are likely to be a dynasty. Batum, Rudy and Bayless can each answer a huge question mark for the team:
1) Batum: Nic could become our lock down perimeter defender, the guy who can slow down Kobe and LeBron and the other future superstar perimeter players (Durant?). Offensively, he could be as limited as Battier, or he may exceed Prince. If he does, he will provide a scoring compliment that will make it nearly impossible for teams to double LMA and Roy. Batum's success will mean success for both Roy and LMA. He doesn't have to ever become a 20 pt scorer, he just needs to be a constant threat, a guy who can score opportunistically and who can find his open teammates.
Chance of becoming a top perimeter defender and solid spot-up shooter: 85%
Chance of becoming a good scorer and play-maker in addition to the above: 60%
2) Rudy: he could become a top flight sixth man. A guy who who is such a good shooter that you dare not leave him open for a second. The kind of player who is an assassin off the bench with his ability to get open and hit the three. Think of Rudy as our potential Reggie Miller. The other team knows he is going to shoot the long ball and tries to stop him, but he is so good working off screens and shoots with such a quick release, you just can't keep him from getting his shot off.
The question with Rudy is that it is unclear whether or not he can add other components to his game besides the long ball. So far, Rudy doesn't seem to have enough size and strength to get to the rim very often. He is not good enough off the dribble to get enough separation to shoot a high percentage from mid-range. A few pounds of muscle certainly wouldn't hurt. A better handle would help as well.
Given his lack of strength and his, mediocre by NBA standards, lateral quickness, Rudy is unlikely to ever be more than an average defender. Rudy is 24, and has been a pro for 6 years. He is much closer to his ceiling than the other three sophomores. To my eyes, Rudy has less potential to become a truly outstanding all around player than the other three. However, because of his extraordinary potential as a shooter, his flare for the game, and his relentless energy without the ball, he is an extremely valuable commodity. Great shooters are a rare commodity. Great shooters who understand when to shoot and when to pass are even rarer. Rudy didn't set the rookie record for threes by chance. Rudy's potential ceiling as an all around player may be lower, but he is, by far, currently the most skilled of our sophomores.
Chance Rudy becomes a quality sixth man, providing energy and outstanding spot-up shooting off the bench: 90%
Chance Rudy becomes a top sixth man, and an all-around scorer off the bench: 50%
3) Bayless: By far the most controversial of the four. Some see him as nothing more than a undersized SG with a broken shot. Those with this view want to trade him as quickly as possible. Others see him as "the point guard of the future," a sure fire bet to devour the league. My own take, expressed ad nauseum, is cautious optimism.
Bayless played a total of 600 minutes last season. His season stats are poor, but I think the season stats are misleading. They include a high percentage of garbage time minutes, a fair amount of minutes at the SG, and even a fair number of minutes where Bayless effectively played the SF role in a three guard line-up. During the one stretch of fairly decent minutes where he actually played the point, his PER was over 15, his FG% was 48%, and he averaged about 4 assists on 20 minutes of PT.
Regardless of whether or not you regard Bayless' performance last season as a case of the glass being one third full, or two-thirds empty, we should not forget who this guy is. Bayless was a McDonald's All-American. He was recruited by Lute Olsen to be the PG at PG University. He was expected to be drafted between 4-8 in last years draft, and it was a minor miracle that he dropped to us at eleven. Most evaluators believe that if he had waited till this year, he would have been top 5. If we had just gotten him, we would be salivating.
How he got to be so controversial is interesting. Many of the complaints and negative evaluations of Bayless that get thrown around come from those who preferred Sergio's game. These folks naturally looked at Bayless with a built in negative bias. Fortunately, there is pretty strong evidence that Bayless is viewed differently by team management. Sergio is gone. The team did not trade up to grab another PG in the draft. KP singled out Bayless as a guy he thought would make a huge leap over the summer. Bayless was invited to return to the Team USA development squad with the big three. Obviously, Bayless is still viewed as a truly outstanding prospect by those who know the most.
If Bayless finds his shot, he is going to become a multi-threat offensive force: able to penetrate at will; strong enough to finish a high percentage at the rim; able to stop on a dime and elevate for the jumper off the dribble; able to shoot a decent percentage when left alone on the perimeter: or able to drive past a recovering defender. Roy described defending Bayless in practice as being like defending D Wade. Think about that comparison for a minute. As a defender, Bayless has the strength, speed, and aggression to, at least, become an above average defender. I think it is just a matter of time on the court.
The real question with Bayless is can he learn to run a team? And, assuming he can, how long will it take? This is the caution part of my cautious optimism. Some guys figure it out, some guys don't. Bayless does not appear to be selfish, nor uncoachable. He is smart and a relentless worker. To me, I think he has a good chance to succeed, but it makes sense for the team to not put all of its eggs in Bayless' basket.
Chance Bayless becomes an effective multi-threat scorer and above average defender: 75%
Chance Bayless becomes the above and becomes an adequate distributor: 65%
4) Oden: Why save Oden for last? Because Oden is by far the most important. If one of the other three fails to live up to their potential, the Blazers will have a significant role to fill, but the teams future success will not be endangered. Oden is the fulcrum on which the teams future will be determined. If Greg becomes the dominant rebounder and defender we all hope he will be, and if he develops one or two good low post moves to compliment his put-backs, the Blazers will be challenging for titles for as long as the big three are wearing Red and Black.
It is pretty simple: dominant big men are the rarest commodity in basketball, and because of their position on the court, they are involved in a huge percentage of plays. If Greg becomes dominant, everything else will become easier.
Chance GO becomes at least a 14 and 12 center, who is a defensive force: 90%
Chance GO becomes a dominant scorer on top of rebounding and defense: 60%
10 recs |
26 comments
Comments
Nice work!
Your percentages are crazy (in the best possible way), but I like the optimism.
by The Penguin on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you think I'm out of line, give me your take.
I was trying to be fairly realistic.
My upper numbers are high because these guys are pretty close to having demonstrated these abilities already.
My lower numbers are more in the mid-high range because they have the physical capabilities to achieve that level of production but haven’t got there yet.
I’m not trying to be a total homer. Interested in other people’s take.
To me, these numbers suggest that patience combined with one or two acquisitions should be enough to get us to the promise land.
by upper left corner on Jul 8, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not out of line.
If everything you said SHOULD happen, happens, then I think you are dead on. I am a guy who has to SEE to believe, but I do like your take.
There are a select few “stars” in this league, and while I WANT to believe we might have 4 or 5 of them on our team, I know that the odds are that we have two.
by The Penguin on Jul 8, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good job at yet another tedious breakdown of our players. And I do agree with your analysis of them.
Are these chance % numbers your wishful hopes?
by pdxer in dfw on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Good" but "tedious"
LOL. Backhanded compliment or damning with faint praise, it is all good!
Regarding % if you think I’m off, give me your take.
by upper left corner on Jul 8, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't take me wrong
I’m a positive person and wouldn’t downplay your opinion. By tedious I meant it’s long in the fact that we’ve had SEVERAL posts lately analyzing players’ abilities and what their potential could be.
With your %‘s, It’s my wish that they achieve the greatness you project, and was curious what sources – if any – you used as basis. I don’t know if Nic will pan out to be a top defender, but a good one, yes. And I don’t think that Rudy will be content playing off the bench much past this season. But if he’s happy doing it down the road, then I’ll be tickled pink supporting him.
by pdxer in dfw on Jul 8, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
^^ good,
I’m confident that greg can do a 10, and 10 night with maybe maybe maybe 2 assists a game. and the flashes of 6+ games. he’s just that good with the passing.
I still don’t like how he drops the ball and gets stripped, he shy’d away from it but I think he started doing it again….. I’d like to see him just bull his way through people more (like preseason, just let him put people on their butts), see how that goes… I’d definately like to see a pick and roll set up for him and actually executed (if I remember right they just never connected as often as they should (thinkin paul/chandler here forgive me).
but I liked readin that.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
by faith on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Greg would be at 14 and 11 at his current production level, if he could stay on the floor for 32 minutes/game
If Greg’s PER jumps just a little and he stays on the floor, he is going to be just fine. That is why I had his probability at 90%.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
Oden is the key. If he develops as we anticipate/hope, and he stays healthy, we will be contenders for the foreseeable future. That is why the raving reviews of his offseason workouts are to me more important than any trade or free agent signing this summer. Add to that the development of any or all of the rest (Rudy, Bayless, Batum), and we will be totally set.
For the reasons outlined in this post, I hope that the only thing we do this summer is move Outlaw and Blake for a short-term upgrade at either PG, SF, or back-up PF.
by socalblazer on Jul 8, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Patience is a virtue
Yes, the real meaning of all those high % is that we have most of the talent we need. We just have to be patient enough to let it develop.
I think KP agrees, because he seems intent on adding one more impact player with our cap money, and then possibly trading extra non-core players for a second upgrade. That strategy makes sense to me.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first glance, those numbers
For Oden and Bayless (especially Bayless, who has shown us very little) seem awfully high.
by samuelleejackson on Jul 8, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my thinking
Oden: Greg will reach the first tier goal simply by staying on the floor. If you scale up his current production rate to 32 minutes per game, he is at about 14 and 11. That is why I have his percentage at 90%.
Second tier, Dwight Howard is averaging 20 points per game with very limited low post moves. If Oden stays on the floor, stops bringing the ball down and getting stripped, learns how to execute the pick and roll, and gets just a little better footwork, he is going to be there. He is so overpowering he doesn’t need to have Olajuwon’s moves to achieve Olajuwon level production. Look at Shaq, he was a dominate scorer primarily based on the fact that he could back guys down and dunk over their heads. Greg has the same power, he just needs better footwork.
Bayless: Guys don’t dominate in summer league unless they have skills or athleticism. Bayless has both. He was a very good shooter in High School and at UA. I think the 75% figure for being an effective scorer is pretty reasonable. I suppose you can argue with the 65% figure I gave him for becoming an adequate playmaker. Adequate is a fairly low threshold. I don’t think he needs to become Nash, just a decent scoring PG who uses the threat of his scoring to create opportunities for his teammates.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a good post
As far as Bayless, I was dissappointed by his shooting percentage. I was hoping we could somehow draft Stephen Curry to replace him, because he is regarded as a premier “shooter”. I compared Curry’s stats in college with Bayless’s stats in college, and they are nearly identical! Both shot the same high percentage from the field and from the 3pt line. Curry had 1 more assist per game and 2 more rebounds, thats all.
So, Bayless has the skills. His problem was he tried too hard to make a difference, maybe forced some shots he shouldn’t have in the little time he had on the court. He just needs to get more minutes, more confidence, and he will be fine.
by blazerbill on Jul 8, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Young PGs often struggle in their first year.
Both Conley and Brooks struggled with their shooting in their first year. Bayless will get better.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless
If you hoped that Bayless could become a Vinnie Johnson/Ben Gordon off the bench instant offense guy, I think the percentage is quite high. However, when I think about it objectively, I have no confidence that he can become a true PG. It’s like trying to plug square with a round peg.
by Turnout on Jul 8, 2009 2:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or...
It could be like trying to plug a nightmare into a dinosaur.
by LewisClark on Jul 9, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many would have said the same about Conley after his rookie season
Billups took four years to get his per game assist average over 4. I think it is a mistake to draw definitive conclusions from very limited and inconsistent minutes. The fact that team management seems to have so much confidence in him should at least give you some optimism.
Why so negative?
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfectly said u.l.c.
If our 3 soph’s improve as expected, this would shore up (almost) all the team’s holes. Back up bruiser of a PF is all we would lack.
To me, Rudy was not a real rookie. He was a pro and a man when he arrived. His improvement should not be as dramatic this year as I expect our 3 wunderlings to be.
You speak the truth about what this really means. The team has arrived and yet the future looks to bring us so much more, potential wise. Very exiting times indeed.
Well done sir.
The Oden Era, Day 749
by Heymoe on Jul 8, 2009 2:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My percentages
Batum 1.0: 95-99%
Batum 2.0: 25-40%
Rudy 1.0: 95-99%
Rudy 2.0: 20%
Bayless 1.0: 60-70%
Bayless 2.0: 20-45% (only because you said “adequate”, not stellar distributor, which would effect an even lower set of odds)
Oden 1.0: 85-95%
Oden 2.0: 10-15%
So in summary, in my unprofessional and not-so-sought-after opinion, your first set of odds are somewhat low and your second set of odds are downright LSD-driven.
But a wonderful post nonetheless and I don’t think you have anything to apologize for in terms of posting on the sidebar; this is unique and comprehensive enough from Dave’s post to warrant your own attention.
Cheers
broggerboy19
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
by broggerboy19 on Jul 8, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Curious to understand your thinking
Why so low on the second set of numbers?
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy has great lateral quickness his problem is his med range shot and his ball handling.
There are only like five players in the history of the predraft workouts that are taller than Rudy and had better times in the agility drills. You can see Rudy’s quickness when he plays without the ball. He is tough to keep up with. The problem with Rudy is that he lacks the dribble moves and the threat of a med range shot so you can lay off of him. He’s also lacks great top speed but thats not as important.
The med range game and the lack of dribble moves makes it tough for him to penetrate. When it comes to Rudy’s upside I’m very optimistic. He was a better shooter in Spain and he can hit the three and finish near the rim so I think the med range game was more of a fluke. Its something that will come with rhythm and experience and once he can find that med range stroke the pump fakes, stutter steps, and crossovers will flow nicely. I think Rudy needs to watch some film on Latrell Sprewell. Sprewell mastered a couple dribble moves. He would do that same stutter and step to the side over and over to get a good look.
by Kaanyr Vhok on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good comments on Rudy
I guess my observation on his lateral quickness was based on watching him move his feet when playing on ball defense.
I agree about him needing to develop a couple of dribble moves. He is a great shooter, if he can get his own shot, he becomes a much bigger weapon.
by upper left corner on Jul 9, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Super cool post.
I found your comments on Bayless to be insightful. The premise is solid. I’m far more excited about the sophomores progress next year than the prospects of free agent/ trade scenarios.
by LewisClark on Jul 9, 2009 1:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Oden is the key imo
Rudy and Batum not so much
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 9, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Man, have you seen that Greg in the playoffs?
He’s a big time player, we don’t have to worry about him.
C Creg Oden
PF LarMarcus Aldridge
SF Nicholas Batum
SG Brandon Roy
PG Jerryd Bayless
by asiafan on Jul 9, 2009 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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