Of Blazers & Bunsen Burners

by ChrisB803 on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT Comment 12 comments

After reading through Dave's most recent post and a number of responses to it, I got to thinking about a couple of things: The first being the free agents and trade options now rumored to be available, and the second being who is already on the team and their perceived value vs. their apparent NBA value. Obviously as fans, the players currently on the team are generally going to be over-valued, but is that only in the sense of their value to other teams around the NBA?

For nearly a decade here in Portland we watched as one talented team after another fell short, until the organization finally imploded into five years of downright crap. Egos, anger, drug addictions, you name it and the players had it. New management set about correcting the problem with a pledge which, however we derided it, has slowly come to pass. The team is now filled with players who are not only talented and committed, but nearly from top to bottom are just good guys who really care about each other. This team is, in large part, growing up together, learning the game and shocking the league for the past two years. Who can possibly estimate the value of a chemistry like that?

If you've ever played basketball in a league, you know it's the team that has been together the longest that often has the best chance of winning, often toppling teams who apparently are much more athletically gifted. Their familiarity with each other, and ability to push each other, comes through as an incredibly valuable commodity.

I'd say from what I've read on here the opinions are split about equally here between keeping the team pretty much intact, at least as we start next season, and making a splash in trades or free agency. The argument for the former generally centers around allowing the talent of our players to develop, while the latter says we need more consistent production, and veteran savvy to help us through the rigours of an NBA season, especially the playoffs.

I'm not knocking either of those views, but I wonder whether the veteran savvy of one or two additional players can overcome the familiarity our players are building together.

You can debate endlessly about what the team should do, and I don't think there is a question that the team will (and should) do something, but I believe Portland currently possess something potentially far more valuable than a big-name free agent (if you ever could have called Hedo Turkoglu that); they have a team chemistry that, by most accounts, supersedes that seen in nearly any other team in the NBA. Can the monetary or talent value of such a thing truly be counted?

What are your thoughts? Can Portland continue to advance on the backs of the talent improvement of their existing core and the chemistry and family atmosphere of the surrounding players? Is talent or 'fit' more important in bringing in new players, or trading existing players? If you assume that chemistry is more valuable than the talents of a player like Turkoglu, then how do you fill the existing holes and keep the chemistry intact?

1 recs | Comment 12 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I'm of the opinion that the team does not need a complete overhaul.

But we do need at least one more solid contributor in the starting lineup. Those kind of players aren’t cheap, and extra cap space alone probably will not land us one of them. And our most expendable pieces and cap space probably doesn’t do it either. Keeping players around is a solid idea. But unless they all reach their potential, I don’t see that alone winning a championship. Something has to be done, talent needs to be added and acclimated. And this summer is the best opportunity to do that.

Like stated in a previous post (somewhere?), the definition of “complete overhaul” is probably what is at issue. Some see trading three players out of our bench rotation as a complete overhaul. Some consider that if our big three remain in tact then it is minor tweaking. I would like to fall somewhere in between there. If we can get a solid starter for bench players, then that is a positive. Benches can be replaced easier, and aren’t relied on as much when the starters are solid.

That said, I love our guys, and I don’t want to see them go anywhere. Doing that lowers our chances at a championship, but I’m okay with that. Not everyone is.

μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.

Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by T Darkstar on Jul 7, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

I also reserve the right to be fickle. I am satisfied with this team, and that means I don’t want any changes. There isn’t anybody on the team that I hope will be traded. That sentiment means more to me than a championship.

But I might change my mind…maybe by the time the season starts, or mid-season, or two years from now. A trade could happen and I might be just as satisfied or more so with the new makeup of the team. I’ll decide tomorrow how I feel about the team then. I’m fickle, and that’s the luxury of being a sports fan.

The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers

by lukeyhere on Jul 7, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Free agents can be overvalued in the same way our existing players are overvalued

It seems like many are dead set on adding another “big name” player. Spurs got RJeff. Lakers got Artest. We need “player x”! Hedo was a big name. Did he really make us better? If he needed the ball in his hands much of the time and took the ball out of Roy’s hands? Maybe, maybe not. Many times adding the right role players are more critical to a team’s success than adding the next star. Are these young players we already have the right role players? I think Batum is. I think Blake is not. I just don’t like overpaying to get someone, David Lee for example, that doesn’t fit our needs, is not a star (imo) and may not play a good supporting role.

It’s hard to project how the young players will develop. It’s hard to project how FAs will mesh with the team. KP has tough decisions, but I hope he doesn’t feel compelled to make a move just to make a move.

by 52therim on Jul 7, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Availability and Cost

Who are we going to get this summer that fills this need in our starting lineup, and just as importantly, at what cost? Not many of the deals I’ve seen thrown around lately seem to me like they are going to improve us greatly, or are lateral moves.

Blake & Outlaw for Hinrich. Ok, I would do this. two questions 1) how much is this really going to improve us? Hinrich is a nice player, but is he really the guy who’s going to put us over the top? 2) is this deal even available? Just because we like it, doesn’t mean the Bulls do. My guess is that every since BG left, their asking price for Kirk went up. I’d bet Rudy, Bayless, or Batum has to be included. At that price, I walk away. The benefit of getting a minor PG upgrade isn’t worth the cost at that point

Battier or Prince: Both these guys are the heart and souls of their teams. We are going to have to overpay to pry them away. Think you are getting either for Przybilla? think again. Think maybe Outlaw and Rudy? I doubt it. My guess is that both Morey and Dumars are going to want TWO of the Batum/Bayless/Rudy trio plus an Outlaw, Blake, or Przybilla on top of that. Rudy/Bayless leaves us with NO backcourt bench on the roster at all, Trading Przy leaves us dangerously think at center. I might take some of those risks for Prince. No way I’m taking them for Shane. I love Shane, but let’s just say we swapped him for Outlaw and Batum straight up. He essentially does the same thing Batum does, albeit better. He’s not going to create off the dribble. he’s not going to score 15 a night. he’s not going to rebound the heck out of the ball. He’s smart, he won’t make mistakes, and he’ll keep our defense in order. But is he going to push us over the top? Seems dubious to me. Not to mention we still haven’t addressed our needs for another scorer, backup 4, or improved PG, we’ve actually lost our only guy not named Roy who can create his own shot, and we probably paid more than what I just through out there, so we lose that too.

David Lee: No thanks. I don’t want to sign up for a guy who wants to start, put up his numbers in a rigged system, can’t play defense, and most importantly, one whose signing would necessitate us making further moves. What kind of 8+ million free agent signing is that? not a good one.

Again, I am not opposed to making deals. I would glady trade away some of our supporting cast to get clear, veteran upgrades who improve us not insignificantly in our areas of need. I’m just not seeing those deals out there. Hopefully they are, and we just haven’t heard about them.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jul 7, 2009 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Here's my slogan: "LET IT RIDE, PLUS ONE..."

Gimme one more free agent big, that costs nothing but money…

Lee or Bass or Millsap or someone of that nature.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 7, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Or McDeyss?

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Jul 7, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy's agent is McDyess' agent

Andy Miller said the Blazers have expressed zero interest in McDyess, the veteran free agent power forward

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/07/blazers_next_move_is_a_mystery.html

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 7, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the more I read

it really sounds like Portland is putting it’s backup PF eggs in the rookie basket. or else Outlaw (or his replacement) will be nabbing those minutes.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jul 7, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I'd say they're looking for a 3-4

Which makes it seem strange that KP hasn’t talked to Odom’s agent, more

No news about Portland pursuing Bass, Millsap, or McDyess

but they have shown interest in David Lee. I think Andy Miller’s other quote from that article is telling. The Blazers don’t look at traditional roles as much as they acquire talent and try to make it fit together.

Like I said last week, the current roster tweaks should require a fine craftsman like a master painter or watch maker. But KP seems to be approaching the job like a blacksmith with a hammer and tongs

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 7, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another way of saying it's the old-school USSR approach

Take two things that work and nail them together.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Jul 7, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am sorry but I want more

I love what this team has become I really do, but if we honestly want to win a title like I would certainly hope we all do we cannot remain passive. The Lake show just got tougher as did SA which does not make our path any easier. I think this team could be there too if we just made a few tweaks here and there, as our core of Roy, LA and Oden s/b a formidable trio in years to come. Having said that though, Steve Blake is not a title winning starting PG, back up yes, just not the starter. He is tough, can pass pretty decently, and shoot pretty well but his D is lacking, he cannot get to the hole, and when the pressure is on he seems to get the Yips. Think about the OT loss to the Slippers in which he couldn’t hit a free throw to save his life, and the horrible decisions down the stretch against the Rockets in game 6. He just wilts a bit under pressure, not a reason to throw him overboard completely but not a quality I want in game 7 against the Lakers in the WCF next year. BRoy needs help, as much as some love Batum at the 3 he is not likely going to be a major offensive threat still, who knows what we have anymore with Webster, and Trouts all but gone so we definitely need to get some extra production from our PG as a result of the deficiency at the 3. That could be someone like D Harris, Andre Miller, perhaps R Sessions or Calderon, I think we ought to sell a chunk of the farm for a serious upgrade.

by ebnerblazer on Jul 7, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fan is short for FANATIC

As a fan I reserve the right to be as fickle or irrational as I may please. We’ve had so much excitement the past few offseasons I must confess I’d grown accustomed to it and was looking forward to more of the same.

The fact that we let the trading deadline come and go without doing anything with the much ballyhooed RLEC bothered me. It left me wondering whether Paul got cold feet or Kevin didn’t get the job done.

Draft day left me feeling much the same way, and I sold myself the story that KP had a plan, just like he’d had the last few years in the draft, and when the right moment came it would be perfectly executed.

Then along came Hedo Turkoglu. And off he went. I’ve always liked Hedo as a player, but somehow had a notion that he wasn’t really the right choice and we’d regret overpaying him. So perhaps its better that he be a Raptor.

Those capspace dollars of Paul Allens money are burning a hole in my pocket and I want to spend them so bad I can hardly stand it. And I much prefer being the rejecTOR rather than the rejecTEE.

After the Turkoglu incident I think its safe to say WE HAVE NO PLAN, and are making it up as we go. It appears that we either bungled this this or simply didn’t get the job done.

Which is it? IMO, we tried to play hardball at the trading deadline and wound up empty handed. And as a result, we may just wind up empty handed again this summer….or wind up overpaying so we can get a deal made.

All the competition is beefing up their rosters. If we have to pay more than we should, and we can afford it, we should do so and make the upgrades. If Mr. Allen was serious when he declared the championship window open now….that should be the modus operendi.

by ucatchtrout on Jul 7, 2009 7:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs