Three Way with Pistons and Jazz

by Salem Team Regional on Jul 6, 2009 7:05 PM PDT Comment 36 comments

I believe we can exploit the Jazz financial quagmire to our benefit. Let me share.

It's long been said that we need to improve our starting SF position but I know my fellow BEdgers don't want to give up much to do it. So try this on for size.

Portland would send Outlaw (3.6mil) and Joel Freeland (824,000) to Utah and in return would get the rights to Tayshaun Prince (10.3mil). We would effectively use 5.9mil in cap space.

Detroit would send Prince(10.3mil) to Portland, Jason Maxiell(5mil) to Utah. In return the Pistons would receive Carlos Boozer(12.3mil).

Utah would send Carlos Boozer (12.3mil) to Detroit. In return the Jazz would receive Jason Maxiell(5mil), Travis Outlaw(3.6mil) and Joel Freeland (824,000) and save 2.7 mil (which would be doubled because they are in the luxury tax = 7.4mil)

* I don't see Utah as needing another SF and Detroit being short a SF. So as a secondary trade I have Detroit doing a sign and trade with Utah. Walter Hermann at 2.7mil for Trout at 3.6mil. This saves Utah another 1.8 mil again because of the luxury tax.

Summary

Portland gives Outlaw, Freeland and 6 million in cap space and receives Tayshaun Prince.

Detroit gives up Prince, Maxiell and Hermann and receives Carlos Boozer and Travis Outlaw.

Utah gives Carlos Boozer and recieves Jason Maxiell, Walter Hermann, Freeland and saves 9.2 million dollars.

I believe this trade works for all parties. Obviously it works for Portland. For Detroit they get an all-star in Boozer and a capable SF in Outlaw. For Utah they get two Jerry Sloan type players in Maxiell and Hermann and a good euro prospect in Freeland. Not to mention the 9.2 mil they save will allow them to resign Paul Milsap.

Here's the Math:

Portland: has roughly 8 mil in cap space so sending outlaw(3.6mil) to detroit for prince (10.3mil) is feasable because both team are below the salary cap .

Detroit: Will be at least 15 mil under the cap after they give up Maxiell and Prince; allowing them to assume the salary of Carlos Boozer(12.3mil).

Utah: These guys are over the cap so any trade with them will be held to the 125% plus $100,000 rule. This means that Utah will have to receive at least 9.15mil in return for Boozer. Maxiell (5mil) + Trout (3.6 mil) and Freeland (824,000) comes to 9.4 million... enough to satisfy the that requirement.

The Secondary trade also works as Hermann ( sign and trade ) at 2.7mil can be traded for Trout 3.6mil .

Let me know what you guys think!

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Comments

"Three Way with Pistons and Jazz"

Giggity

by axel360 on Jul 6, 2009 7:08 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs

Is there anything funnier than Family Guy? Nope.

Duct tape makes you smart.

by TTRocks on Jul 6, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Number correction

The initial trade would save Utah 3.7 mil not 2.7 mil. That is what makes the total savings of 7.4 million for the cash strapped Jazz

by Salem Team Regional on Jul 6, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

hmmm.. while I'd totally do this

I’m not sure Utah would. Boozer could easily stay with them next year and he’s still better than Millsap. And they would then HAVE to sign Millsap cuz they can’t lose both. I’m sure his agent would love to see this happen though… his guy would instantly become more valuable.

my favorite mod is prezofdelete

by In Walks Rudy on Jul 6, 2009 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They're trying to trade Boozer because they think he'll bolt next year

They want Milsap to replace him as the starting PF.

by ninjasocks on Jul 6, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is true

They definitely prefer Millsap long term. Better D, friendlier contract (we can safely assume), not to mention a guy who can play 75 plus games.

by kobisportsguy on Jul 7, 2009 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not bad

Personally I still prefer a PG upgrade above all else. I think Batum will have a good jump in his second year.

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 6, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Can't imagine Utah ever doing this

by as11osu on Jul 6, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I could

I don’t think they were happy he opted in. They were praying he would walk and they’d get nothing for him. This is slightly better than that.

They’re ready to plug in Milsap full time, and not many teams are going to want to trade for Boozer. Detroit is one, Miami is the other.

by matthewcc on Jul 7, 2009 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They'd save more money...

if they traded Boozer and Kirilenko for O’Neal’s 23 million dollar expiring contract. They’d save 12 million dollars in year one and 18 million of AK47’s 2010 contract.

by as11osu on Jul 7, 2009 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Detroit would much rather get rid of Hamilton

than Tayshawn, that solves more problems for them instead of this.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Jul 6, 2009 7:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good work

I think this is exactly the kind of outside-the-box trade that the Blazers need. Although in this case, I think Utah trading Boozer for only 7.4 mil in overhead savings is unlikely. Utah must be in win now mode because they have the talent to win now (DWill). But, some team that needs to save money and isn’t in win now mode could go for this type of trade. Hopefully for a pg or sf.

by goblazer1 on Jul 6, 2009 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Utah is very cost-averse

They have a very small market and will have one of the highest salaries in the league when they sign Milsap. They don’t want to be here at all.

by ninjasocks on Jul 6, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love this trade from our perspective.

My question is, does Utah enough cap space left over in order to sign Milsap with this trade? If so, they could be very tempted to do this. Getting young studs in Outlaw and Maxiel, in order to clear space for Milsap would be very tempting. Detriot would get their replacement for Wallace, but Prince and Maxiel is an awfully high price to pay.

by JasonT on Jul 6, 2009 7:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they can resign Milsap for however much they want (up to the cap)

I may be mistaken, but I think “Bird Rights” is the ticket.

by ninjasocks on Jul 6, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, the Utah Jazz have Bird rights on Paul Millsap and could match any offer sheet he signs ...

this off-season due to him being a restricted free-agent. The reason that Millsap may play elsewhere next season, however, is because Carlos Boozer didn’t opt out of his contract last month and the Jazz don’t want to push itself into luxury tax territory. Boozer, therefore, may be moved in an attempt to clear enough financial wiggle room to re-sign Millsap without pushing the payroll into the luxury tax.

by AK1984 on Jul 7, 2009 3:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with not signing him

Is that Boozer is probably going to bolt anyways next year with more money available and more teams looking to sign max contract players. Utah without Boozer or Milsap is gonna be really ugly. I think they’d rather take a one-year cap hit than end up in that situation. In the meantime, if they can deal Boozer and get some cap relief or some valuable contracts in return, I think they’re probably game.

by ninjasocks on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly, hence my bottom post in this thread.

by AK1984 on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They can go over the cap

to sign him because they have his bird rights. If they wanted to they could give him an extention right now for $10+ million per season, even though their way over the cap already.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess the question is: Will Utah take a cap hit for one year?

To me it seems like that is what they should do so they can keep Milsap.

Also, I would be surprised if Detroit lets go of Maxiel in any trade as that would leave a big gap at PF since McDyess will probably go to a contender.

BTW you cant include Freeland to make salaries work as he is a cap hold only and not an actual contract. He counts $0 for trade purposes.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever

by jonestr on Jul 6, 2009 8:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Do all teams in a deal have to be under the cap to absorb contracts?

What are the rules about lopsided trades (salary wise) if not all teams in a deal are under the cap?
BTW Way to think outside the box on this deal, even if this one doesn’t/can’t happen there may be other scenario’s like this out there.

by PHXBlazerFan on Jul 6, 2009 8:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no

If you’re over the cap, you can take back UP TO 125% of the outgoing salaries (+ $100,000).

So, if you’re way over the cap, and you want to trade away a player who makes $5 million, the maximum you can take back is $6.35 million (5,000,000 * 1.25 + 100,000). The flip side of that, of course, is if you want to trade for a player who makes $6.35m, you have to send out at least $5m.

When BOTH teams are facing this restriction it can become difficult-to-impossible to make the math work. When one team is under the cap they can take back much larger contracts than they send out, hence ‘imbalanced trade’, which refers to the imbalance in contracts, not necessarily the talent.

by matthewcc on Jul 7, 2009 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Three way with Detroit And Utah

Sounds sexy and makes me wanna watch the action mmmmmm. Prince could show Batum how to play like him. But would jiz myself if could get Hamilton instead. But only if Hamilton can play sf

What's the differance of 3-6 mil? oh about 20+ more losses, and the chance to watch the only star leave by the end of the season. Suck it Hedo!

Who is that you ask, well that shell of a man with his junk tucked away I think his name is Hedo. At least he used to be.

Canzano is a joke. When you see him kick him in the BUTT for me!

by in~ur~fizace on Jul 6, 2009 8:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

One of the more reasonable trade proposals I've seen,

though with the caveats that a) the Jazz really would have to be in a financial quagmire to make a deal so favorable to a division rival and b) the Jazz put a lot of pressure on themselves to re-sign Millsap.

by Calzone on Jul 6, 2009 8:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They don't plan on Boozer being there next year (they expected him to opt out this summer)

They don’t want to be over the cap. They plan on Milsap being their PF of the future.

These are all facts. It’s just a question of whether they’re willing to pay luxury tax this year or want to get anything in return.

by ninjasocks on Jul 6, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just and FYI

The Jazz payroll for next year right now stands at: $74,222,846 according to Storyteller. That is over the luxury tax for sure, and that doesn’t include resigning Milsap, and he will get at least a MLE contract for around $5 to $6 million per year, that is $10 to $12 million per as far as the Jazz are concerned.

Now if the move Boozer and his $12,323,900 salary this year, that pretty much puts them back to where they are now. They are in dire financial condition, and they will move Boozer, although I read the Bulls are making a big push for him.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jul 7, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI Joel Freeland (824,000)

The rights to Joel Freeland = $0 when included in any trade (this is true of Koponen and Claver as well.) The 824,000 is a salary cap “hold” until the Euro signs an NBA contact, or if/when the cap hold is renounced

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 6, 2009 8:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

good job two4larue

you are correct. we could still send freeland just include a non guaranteed 1 mil contract in its stead. Also the Jazz have no pressure to resign milsap as they can match any offer and there are no buyers left

by Salem Team Regional on Jul 6, 2009 8:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

it would have to someone

we have rights to make the trade work now as opposed to december

maybe Cunningham

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever

by jonestr on Jul 6, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing I forgot

There are rumors that Utah would make a 2-way trade with Detroit. They would get something in return for Boozer (I’ve heard Prince), but they’d be stuck in luxury tax territory.

If they want to cut their salary, we and OKC (both NW division teams) are about the only players in town. We might even be able to include a non-guaranteed salary (like Blake’s) in a “boomerang” deal that would get him back to us before the season starts.

by ninjasocks on Jul 6, 2009 9:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

DO IT!

This is the only trade proposal on this blog that I have seen and liked.

by RipCityRoyCity on Jul 6, 2009 10:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Blake's Salary

unfortunately became guaranteed when we did not renounce him before July 1. I also think we can sweeten the pot with either detroit or utah with draft picks or cash if they are hesitant. Prince is a good play maker and could again play point forward. I almost think it would be worth trading a bayless or rudy to make this happen

by Salem Team Regional on Jul 6, 2009 10:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Walter Herrmann will be renounced by the Detroit Pistons in order to get under the salary cap to sign ...

Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon on 7/8/2008; thus, the team won’t have Bird rights on him and, in turn, a sign-and-trade involving the long-haired Argentinian is almost certainly out of the question.

On a lighter note, here’s a list of the guys who’ll have their Non-Bird, Early Bird, or Full Bird rights renounced by the Pistons tomorrow.

CURRENT FREE-AGENTS
Rasheed Wallace (Although he’s set to sign with the Boston Celtics, the Pistons will likely have to renounce him for clerical purposes. I’m not sure how that’ll work officially, though, since it’ll be a paperwork frenzy after the July moratorium is over.)
Allen Iverson
Antonio McDyess
Walter Herrmann

OTHER FREE-AGENTS
Victor Alexander
Will Blalock
Elden Campbell
Dale Davis
Tony Delk
Horace Jenkins
Danny Manning
Don Reid

The Pistons won’t renounce the draft rights it has on any recent second-round draft picks — which include Trent Plaisted, Deron Washington, DaJuan Summers, and Jonas Jerebko — as they’ve got cap holds of $0.

Anyway, regarding this trade proposal, I prefer Storyteller’s version centered around Carlos Boozer going to the Chicago Bulls and Kirk Hinrich going to the Portland Trail Blazers. Also, I agree with some other posters in this thread that the Pistons should focus on trading Richard Hamilton instead of Tayshaun Prince. Now, I don’t know if the Pistons are interested in a straight salary dump of “Rip,” but a trade of him going to the Utah Jazz for young swingman Ronnie Brewer, project center Kyrylo Fesenko, and the broken down Matt Harpring — who’ll likely hang up his jersey this summer due to chronic injuries — would surely make up for the foolish contract extension that Joe Dumars gave Hamilton last November.

by AK1984 on Jul 7, 2009 3:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Prince/Batum!

I would love this so much… the perfect offensive mentor for Batum.

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Prince/Batum
Aldridge
Oden/Pryzbilla

and eventually…

Bayless/Blake
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Prince
Aldridge
Oden/Pryzbilla

Prince/Blake/Pryzbilla retire Blazers with 3 rings.

Batum is THE FUTURE

by blazeraider on Jul 7, 2009 3:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What are the particulars of an offer sheet? Can it be rescinded?

If an offer sheet is extended and agreed to by Millsap, is the only option that the Jazz have to match the offer? In that case, the trade becomes problematic—especially if there is a huge signing bonus. The Jazz might still want to execute a trade, but they are stuck with the ugly contract the blazers have drafted.

My point is that if there is no way to rescind the offer sheet, then we should know pretty quickly whether or not the Blazers are playing the trade angle. If a formal offer sheet is signed, then we know they are playing to keep Millsap. If the offer sheet hangs out for a few days, then they are working the phones to get in on a trade.

Or I’m completely wrong and offer sheets can be rescinded or there are other options than simply matching the offer in which case this entire comment is worthless. :-)

by grigs on Jul 8, 2009 11:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Argh. Should have checked the Salary Cap FAQs First

A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the seven day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q36

Also, trades after matching are not possible:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q76

Even though they could make a trade work during the 7 day window if they could get Millsap and the Jazz to agree to having the offer sheet rescinded, that could be problematic. Especially if Millsap is looking at getting less money from the Jazz than the offer the Blazers put together (the signing bonus makes this extremely likely).

Therefore, convincing Millsap to rescind the offer sheet might be difficult. Still makes the most sense to try to negotiate a trade before the offer sheet is signed. If it is signed, there is a really good chance Portland is not working the trade angle because for the trade to work, Millsap would have to agree to rescind the very lucrative offer in exchange for an offer from the Jazz that is likely to be less.

by grigs on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs