David Lee in the land of the giants (with poll)
by two4larue on Jul 4, 2009 6:50 PM PDT
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PrintNow that Turk is gone, David Lee is the most-coveted FA big man available, and you could see the Blazers were trying to put together a "long" front line this week, so maybe they’re still working in that direction?
But if KP is really targeting Lee, where would his minutes come from, assuming Joel/Greg are healthy and playing 48+mpg? Well, you’d have to consider a “triple towers” lineup for at least 10-12 mpg (LMA / Lee / C at the 3,4,5) The nice thing about Aldridge playing "SF" is that can defend pretty well, out on the perimeter (if you remember, he did a nice job when he had to switch out on point guards, last year) There aren’t a whole lot of SFs that LMA couldn’t stay in front of, and of course he would KILL THEM on the other end.
So, if Nate/KP were just contemplating starting a 6’10 / 6’11 /7’0 lineup (Hedo / LMA / C) how much more of a “stretch” would it be to play a LMA / Lee / C lineup for 5-6 minutes a half? The three daddy-long-legs could pack the paint and rebound the heck out of the ball, and we know that LMA and Lee can both run the court extremely well.
Will KP go after the “BPA” on the FA market and then leave it up to Nate to make the pieces fit? (I know, this idea smacks of the Rasheed Wallace, Brian Grant and Jermaine O’Neal "PF logjam" that ended with Jerm being dealt for Dale Davis.) WIll history repeat itself, or will the quest to matchup with the “length” of the L*kers lead Portland to offer Lee the most $$$ of anyone in the NBA?
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Brandon Bass and Paul Millsap are both better than David Lee
They both would also fit on this roster much better than David Lee would. Lee is pathetic defensively and has absolutely no mid range game, making him a horrible match next to our centers.
I've got two words for you
length > strength
I’m just reading the tea leaves…personally I don’t see how Lee would find enough minutes given the current makeup of the roster. But we know the Blazers have been interested in David for awhile, and KP definitely has the most $$$ to offer him, at least of any “contending” team.
Meanwhile, have you heard Portand’s name connected to Bass and Milsap in any FA rumors? (outside of Blazersedge, I mean)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I always talk about what the team should do
you should know that by now. Both Millsap and Bass are better than Lee, and Bass is much better considering the fact we don’t have to wait a week to see whether New York will match it or not. You have to overpay for Lee because if you don’t New York keeps him. On that basis alone, giving Bass slightly above the MLE is a no-brainer. Millsap has the same deal as Lee as far as being restricted, but he’s just a flat much better player.
or non of those 3.
Unless they want to come off of the bench and play PF for bench player monies.
Roy Tribute
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Bass is going to do that pretty much no matter where he goes
we can for that kind of quality. And should. He’s a premier playoff performer, who is a solid defender and has a great mid range shot, which can only help open things up for Roy and for our centers.
If LMA can play the 3 in the NBA, he has yet to demonstrate it with so much as a single minute in his NBA career.
Hedo is a 3. That’s his regular position. He grew up playing PG… Which is why KP was so ga-ga for his 6’10" bod…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
But you have to agree
That LMA has the necessary mobility to play the SF position, at least for short spurts. One of the biggest “knocks” on LMA is that he’s “too soft” for the PF position, right? Well, if he wants to float to the perimeter, playing alongside Lee would give him that opportunity, for at least part of the game. Aldridge can “space the floor” with his outside shot, or Nate could “clear a side” and let him post up the opposing SFs and force the other coach to “match up” with a bigger (but probably inferior) player.
Lee may not be a great defender, but he brings energy and toughness that the Blazers have said they could use. He would “complement” Przybilla because while Joel is a vaccum on the defensive boards, David is a terror on the offensive glass. Surround those two guys with a couple of 3 point shooters and you could play “volleyball” with mised shots until somebody finally tips the ball in, or kicks it back out for a made 3 pointer.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Why on earth are you making drastic compromises
for a player as medicore offensively and pathetic defensively as David Lee is? A player that you’re also going to have to overpay for, and commit up to a week waiting for New York to tell you whether you have him or not. At which time, if they keep him you’re left with next to nothing on the FA market. Just bad all around.
did you hear what Jason Quick said Thursday?
(the interview is in the 1080 podcast archives, if you want to check it out)
Quick said that he had never seen KP and Nate be “so sure” about acquiring a player as they were with Hedo. Not just Nate. Nate and KP
evidently you’ve got one way of looking at roster building, and they’ve got another. I’m just pointing out “why” they might be thinking of going in a certain direction, based on their first target
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think KP & Nate want a veteran scorer and playmaker, and they have given up on Outlaw.
They may even have a trade already lined up for Outlaw after they use up the cap space. Turk was a great fit because he provided the scoring and play making they wanted (giving us more versatility on offense), replaced Outlaw at SF, allowed Nic to develop as a backup SF, and provided 10 backup minutes for LMA at PF. How many players would fit better than that?
I’m wrestling with idea that Odom could be a similar fit. He could provide scoring, rebounding, some toughness, and replace Outlaw and backup LMA if we could find some way to get him to walk away from LA. I realize Odom has some issues, but I see the upside for the Blazers and big downside for LA if it could be done. Then we still have Nic developing and Outlaw for a trade. (I think we have to simply ignore Martell in our planning until we see if he can come back at all.)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree about Lamar
I almost put LO’s name into this fanshot along with Lee, but I didn’t want to make it too complicated (and besides, we haven’t read any “Portland is interested in Odom” rumors, yet…)
And of course, Odom is a hot-button subject with a lot of Blazer fans, because of all the “scuffles” (and subsequent trash-talking) between the two teams. Still, I can’t shake the memory of reading an article from a few years back where Nate went out of his way to single out Lamar following the team USA workouts (McMillian praised LO’s work ethic; it was unsolicted) So who knows? Maybe KP will make “Hedo-lite” an offer that Jerry Buss won’t match, especially now that Ron-Ron is in La-La land?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't recall Nate's comments about Odom, so that's good to hear.
Odom’s an RFA. So what’s LA willing/able to offer. They must be way over the luxury tax limit.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
^^^ Typo, Odom's an unrestricted FA.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Chris Broussard chimes in on Odom's status
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4305950
3 years, 24-25 mil is what he expects Kupchak/Buss to offer LO
No interest from Portland re: Lamar
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yeah, that link is long gone
so you’ll have to take my word on it…it was one of those quotes that make you go “hmmm?” because I had never thought of Odom as a workaholic
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Much rather have Odom than Lee
then the lineup could beOden/LMA/Odom to start and Odom could fill in at PF backup. Swing Travis in the deal to LA since they just lost Ariza who knows.
To summarize: Wade too quick, Kobe too skilled, LeBron too physical - Batum
how about a sign and trade with the Knicks
involving Lee and Nate Robinson? That would just torque all of “our” theories about what Nate and KP have been trying to do with the roster. It could happen, though. Bizzaro world
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm so confused.
Sounds like Blazer management has all but given up on Martell. Or, PDX want’s to pay a starters salary to a back-up PF?
Roy Tribute
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I still like some of our options
But I tend to agree with as11osu… in that we should be looking at Bass and Millsap. I really like Millsap, but not to sure he’s a backup… he might want starter minutes. And I’d like to see someting happen with the pg spot… Conley
my favorite mod is prezofdelete
as much as he’d rather be by the beach, it’d be smarter trying to sway Odom with money on a 2-3 yr deal than paying $9-10 mill to David Lee to back up Aldridge. at least he can play the 3 position.
agreed with as11osu, the cheap back up big option is Bass. though (from what i’ve seen of him) he’s kind of a black hole a la Outlaw.
Ditto on Odom, see my post above.
What’s LA willing/able to pay to keep him?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
heck if I know
supposedly they were going to have trouble signing Ariza and Odom, then they went after Artest, instead. Is L*A thinking that Ron-Ron “replaces” both Lamar and Trevor? Or did the “discount” contract that Artest signed give them room to “almost match” whatever offer Odom mght receive?
It might be better to “force the issue” with LO and call Kupchack’s bluff, methinks…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
ESPN's Chris Broussard said
that he hasn’t heard that Portland has shown any interest in Odom, and the L*kers aren’t going to “play hardball” with Lamar. So he expects an offer of 3 years, 24-25 mil
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4305950
So, would you rather “top” that proposal and hope L*A won’t go higher, or keep talking to DLee’s agent? Sounds like KP is taking door #2
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I know you've got several windows
but instead of lighting sparklers tonight it sounds like KP is talking to Mark Bartelstein
(you know, Trenton Hassell’s agent?)
“I’ve got a bad feeling about this” -Han Solo
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Oh god, he is going after Dan Dickau and Kwame Brown
Or our free agent target is Antoine Walker.
http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/Mark-Bartelstein-79/
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
Looks like he also represents Danny Granger.
Can we convince Indiana that Rudy is the 2nd coming of Reggie Miller?
Oh, never mind.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd throw big bucks at Odom. He's a pretty good fit, very versatile as I discussed above.
I have no interest in Lee. There’s simply no place for him to play in Portland. 10-12 minutes behind LMA? Maybe 5-6 more minutes if LMA plays center if/when Nates want’s to go with a “small ball” team. Lee doesn’t want to come off the bench and that doesn’t even come close to the minutes he wants. Plus he’s not a good backup center so we still need Joel for a long time (I’m betting Joel ends his career as a Blazer).
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree about Joel not leaving
I think Nate would cut KP’s _ off if he traded Przy
OTOH, the Blazers were targeting Hansbrough in the draft, so it makes sense (from their perspective, at least) that they would go after Lee after being ditched by the Turk
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't get it.
Where would Lee play? He’d be unhappy and LMA would go non-linear (very insecure guy), i.e. he’d never sign a new deal this summer. If we get Lee it’s because we are moving LMA in some block buster deal, and where did that come from over night? It better be a huge block buster deal, because I would much rather have LMA than Lee.
Yeah, Nate would probably walk if KP traded Przy.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 4, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
like I wrote above
I think Odom makes more sense, because he’s a 3-4 and his game compares more to Turk’s.
Kind of
Nate might lobby for Lamar as well. We’ll see
I’ve never heard any news re: the Blazers being interested in Bass, even though he would make a lot of sense at the PF/C
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
LMA
Love LMA, but he is a PF to the bone. He can’t create off the dribble, he can’t drive 1-on-1, he rarely has to defend players who are 1-on-1 face the basket scoring threats. LMA at the 3 is a gimic…..and I think everyone should know how I feel about gimics:
Gimmicks don't make dynasties
LMA said he's "working on his left hand" with Bosh, down in Texas this summer
and last summer he worked on hisshooting range out to 3pt land
LMA runs the court like a guard, and after Batum is probably the Blazer’s best perimeter defender (which is kinda sad when you think about it…)
We’re hearing KP is talking to Lee’s agent…and if they win the bidding war Nate and KP are gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do re: how David will get enough minutes. “LMA playing some SF” (not as a starter, but as part of a “big lineup”) is the best I can come up with, because I doubt Joel is going anywhere
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
LMA also said he worked on his handle last summer.
Why spend money on a backup PF that forces you to slide your current PF out of his natural position for a quarter of each game?
Point guard is a much more necessary target.
What can I say?
Steve Blake is Nate and KP’s PG starter and Jerryd Bayless is the “fair-haired boy” for 2009
Here’s my theory: KP has a deal in place for Travis. He swung at Hedo and missed. Lee is #2 on his FA draft board (of the remaining players, who knows where Ariza was?) So now he’s swinging for the fences on David.
Cap-space (or money, in general) does strange things to people. Right now that 9 mil is burning a hole in KP’s pocket. And if Lee hears “5 years, 50 mil” is the best offer available he’ll be on the first plane to Portland (assuming the Knicks don’t match it) and everybody will worry about “where he fits in” next October.
I’m just trying to make sense of it all. But I do remember looking at the 2009 FA list 6 months ago and picking Turk #1 and Lee #2, as well. Sometimes you just have to go with the “BPA” and let the chips fall where they may
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Hmmm, I disagree there. BPA is a great strategy for the draft, but I’m not sure I agree in free agency. Lee needs more than 12, or even 20 minutes per game. His acquisition would spell the end of Aldridge or Przybilla in Portland.
Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
(hope you don’t mind if I break out the “Back to the Future” reference)
neilan hit the “nail” on the head (down below) If KP is talking to Lee’s agent, they’ve already moved past the “how much will he play” stage and their talking about “how much will you pay?” For you and me it doesn’t make much sense to bring in another PF who’s worthy of starter’s minutes. Shoot, I’ve making that argument re: Brandon Bass for months, every time his name is brought up.
But that’s why KP’s the “Doc” and we’re the teenager stuck inside the DeLorean!
But now that the teams that could’ve offered Lee the big bucks have signed other FAs, David doesn’t have the leverage to be so choosey about what kind of situation he goes to, does he? He’ll take the highest offer and probably pray that the Knicks match it, but if KP wants him as bad as I think he does, the Blazer GM insert a poison pill in that contract and the Knicks will have to spit it out. (this reminds me of all-NFL guard Steve Hutchinson, who was “stolen” from Seattle by the Vikings)
So in the end Lee will take the money and work his butt off to get on the court. That’s not a bad thing. Meanwhile, KP will “smooth things over” with LMA, by telling him that “you’re our guy” and that Lee is a short-timer. LMA will sign his extension and they’ll all go to training camp and Nate will have 4 really good big men who can all play hard every night and never have to worry about foul trouble, again! And if (God forbid) one of them gets hurt you’re not relying on Channing Frye or Pendergraph or whoever to play any meaningful minutes at the 4
But if everybody stays healthy and KP wants to flip Lee next December—February, then everybody will be happy and go on their merry way. Just remember, depth isn’t always a “bad” thing to have. It makes players compete for their minutes and it comes in real handy when somebody breaks a bone or tears a ligament (Oden, Webster, etc) GMs tend to like having some roster “cushion” at every position, heading into an 82 game season
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
"Paul, this is KP ..."
“We can get David Lee to backup LMA for 12 minutes a night for only $50M and a 5 year contract…. Paul? … Paul?…. No Paul, my flux capacitor isn’t shorted, we just have to outbid the Knicks to get him …. I’ll trade him for someone worth $50M before the Feb trading deadline. I promise, trust me. You know how I’ve made those blockbuster mid-season deals in past …. Paul? Paul? Yes, I fixed it with LMA and the fans will never get attached to a guy that rebounds his butt off for only 12 minutes a game and is only here for half a season. What could possibly go wrong? … Moses? Moses who, Paul?”
I guess David will never be another Moses, but that would be a worthy sequel to Back to the Future …
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 5, 2009 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah, I saw that too
Portland could offer all of its available cap space to Lee in the form of an offer sheet that would amount to roughly $50 million over five years. And as a disincentive to keep the Knicks from matching, they could structure the deal so that the highest salary of any of the five years would come in 2010-11 — the season for which the Knicks will need as much salary cap space as possible to make a run at LeBron James and/or another of the marquee superstars that will be available.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Lee's agent is Mark Bartelstein, here are some of his comments
the reality I have is that the route I have to go is sign-and-trade, and that’s even harder because he becomes a base-year compensation player, and it makes that trade an incredibly complicated event to get to happen, where you have to put in all kinds of players and teams."
Bartelstein refused to name any of the 12 teams he claims are interested in a sign-and-trade…
“Players who produce like David Lee rarely come onto the market,” he said, adding that he had only talked “conceptually” about dollars with the Knicks, whose president, Donnie Walsh, tossed an interesting nugget out there Thursday when asked why the Knicks were suddenly willing to offer Jason Kidd a three-year guarantee when he had said just days earlier that he would not sign any player to a mid-level contract unless he could shed an equal amount of salary. “I have a little leeway that will leave me in good position for next year,” Walsh told the Associated Press. “I know what it is, but do not talk much about it.”
Here’s Bartelstein’s client list
http://hoopshype.com/agents/mark_bartelstein.htm
No Blazers are on it. One name of note that should bring a chill to any Blazer fan: Trenton Hassel
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't believe LMA would play at the SF position
Aldridge would play some center (I know about Oden and Joel) and a lot of PF.
The Blazers are likely targeting David Lee as an asset. He has trade value and after his Poison Pill status is up (1 year) he could be traded.
The Blazers will need more talent to compete for a championship and this season (now ’til the Feb 2010 trade deadline) is the only time the Blazers will have cap space for 5+ years.
But, if they acquired Lee as a permanent acquisition, management would trade Pryzbilla + ______ for someone that can be a starter at the SF or PG positions (like Tayshaun Prince).
Essentially, by signing Lee, it gives the Blazers more options to alter the roster in the future, because the Blazers have more assets that are attractive to other teams.
The Blazers are likely targeting David Lee as an asset.
DING DiNG DING we have WINNER!
The “best player available” works in free agency as well as in the draft. The Blazers tried to make a “need” singing and were rebuffed, now KP is looking for “value” Unless Lee breaks or tears something there’s really no risk. He’s not the kind of kid who’s going to sulk if he’s not starting, he’ll just work that much harder when he’s in the game to impress Nate and the opposing team’s scouts
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
"need" singing
signing, of course
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Unless Lee is assured he's getting starters minutes he ain't signing up.
He’s too young to just take the money and sit. Besides LMA would go ballistic (very insecure) with Lee sitting there ready to replace him. The team chemistry would be a mess. This doesn’t make sense unless it’s part of a much bigger play to trade LMA for an “untouchable” and I don’t think that could have developed over night.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 5, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Prince and Lee sounds like a plan
Upgrade and still could trade to and blake for a pg if that fits the plan. Add prince, lee and miller while losing priz, blake and to. Wow! Plenty of min to go around.
1977 = 2010
thats a good plan but
i still think we should first throw big money at odom. anything we can do to weaken our main comp will help us as much as any improvment he may bring. and he seems like a likeable guy
whats the status on rubio
can he decide to come back to the nba. that seems like a trade waiting to happen
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