Blazers Offered Odom?
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:02 PM PDT
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PrintNow isn't this interesting, from ESPN's J.A. Adande and Marc Stein...
One source close to the process said Odom will come away with a guaranteed $27 million from the new contract, matching the original value of the three-year, $27 million deal Lakers owner Jerry Buss pulled off the table earlier this month.
It's believed that the structure of the new deal calls for Odom to earn $25 million over the first three seasons, with the Lakers owing him $2 million in the fourth year if they elect not to pick up their team option.
...
On Tuesday, the Portland Trail Blazers also got into the mix, offering a five-year, $40 million deal, according to a source close to Odom.
Please vote and discuss.
Update: 3:21PM ... ESPN has revised its story to remove the 5 year/40 million dollar figures from the report.
Alright, then.
Update: 6:33PM ... ESPN has revised its story again, this time removing Portland from the discussion entirely.
One source close to Odom told ESPN that the Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday tried to join the bidding with a potential five-year, $40 million bid. Yet that would have required Portland to trade a player such as Travis Outlaw to a team with salary-cap space like Oklahoma City, thereby creating the cap space to make such an offer after the Blazers' recent signing of free-agent guard Andre Miller.
"It's not true," Odom's agent Jeff Schwartz said Thursday night. "I've had no discussions this week with the Blazers about Lamar."
That sounds more like it.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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Is that even possible?
Wouldn’t we be sanctioned by the NBA for making offers that are not even allowed?
If we already picked up Miller wouldn’t our cap space be far to small for this? Maybe if we only paid him 3 million the first two years and then 34 million over the last three?
I’m sure one of our cap gurus will straighten this out, but I thought this was impossible. Wasn’t this sort of thing why Miles was a problem?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
If the Blazers were over the cap(they aren't, i've been told)
they could have offered the full-midlevel + max signing bonus for an offer exceeding $40M.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
I'm pretty sure you lose your MLE for awhile once you sign anyone with capspace.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
you lose it for the year
you get one again the next year. You have to renounce all your exceptions to get under the cap, otherwise they count against the cap, just like a cap hold.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I'm not the Salary Cap guru...
but I think teams can go as far over the cap as they want to pay, so long as they’re within the limits of how much money and how many years go to certain levels of players based on years in the league and what have you… and there’s the luxury tax.
Right guys? Am I right here? Right?
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 30, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to sign a free agent they can't
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
you're right you're not a salary cap guru :)
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Here's how they could have done it.
Trade Outlaw ($3.6M) and Bayless ($2.1M) to a couple of teams with cap space or trade exceptions for draft picks. That $5.7M in cap space. Then wait for the start of the season when the Euro Cap holds go away. That another $2.3M (assuming rookies are signed for $1M total and Miller first year salary was $7M). That’s a total of $8M they could have offered Odom.
It shouldn’t be a problem to make a deal now with Odom that wouldn’t be finalized until the first day of the season to get the additional cap space.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 30, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
'Cept going from 13 to 11 would have put the Blazers under the 12 man minimum, so that's another $457,000 or whatever in a hold that would have to go back on the books.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I'm glad to know we made an offer
I definitely think he was worth pursuing.
by jksnake99 on Jul 30, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
yes
I proposed 5/40 for Lamar, in the days between the Millsap offer and the Miller signing
(but I doubt Portland would’ve gotten any further with Odom than the Heat did)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
My thoughts exactly
I would hope they would make an offer. He would be an improvement in the starting lineup.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 30, 2009 8:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
With what cap space?
Shouldn’t this be considered fiction out of hand? The Blazers don’t have the cap space to sign him to a 5 year, $40M deal, right? Am I missing something here?
now i'm confused...
teams can willingly go over the cap… right?
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 30, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
They can:
To resign their own players, and as a result of trades.
But for a FA signing I’ve always thought it was impossible.
Think about this. New York could just offer Roy, Wade, Bosh, Lebron, and Howard tonnes of money at they end of their contracts if this wasn’t true. There would be no reason to work to free up cap space.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
Yes and no
The salary cap has one basic rule – you cannot go more than $100,000 over the cap even if you want to. It’s a very simple rule.
That being said, there are a number of exceptions to that rule. Understanding the exceptions is very complex.
So, the answer to your question is – no, a team cannot willingly go over the cap, unless they hold an exception to the basic rule that is large enough to allow such a transaction to take place.
well, the Blazers did try to go 6 on 5
and they got away with it, for a few seconds
maybe KP figured…what the heck?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 30, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I was at that game
and was very confused. Couldn’t stop laughing when they counted the basket and Boston whined about it for the rest of the game.
Odom is phenomenal.
People are saying a dodged bullet, just because the opposing announcers would have never been able to figure out the Oden/Odom tandem.
I heart taxes.
it would have been a nightmare for rice
and wheels would be constantly correcting him…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder how Odom and Aldridge would have gotten along.
Doesn’t seem likely to me that they would get along, at all. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
my thoughts
as well….
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If Kobe and artest can get along
I’m pretty sure odom an la could do it. Odom is a easy going guy. These guys are professionals and they know that sometimes tempers are lost on the court.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 31, 2009 7:12 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Kobe and Artest getting along
is something that remains to be seen. It might be a disaster, for all we know.
Exactly
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 31, 2009 7:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah it really doesn't make sense....
wasn’t Andre already signed? Makes me question the credibility of ESPN
it took THIS to make you question ESPN? :)
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I really doubt this happened, and on the slim chance it did it never got serious.
The only way Portland could have done that was to work out a sign and trade with the Lakers, and I doubt either team is willing at all to help the other.
As pointed out, there would be no way Portland could sign him out right since Andre was signed on Friday. My guess would be this is Lamar’s agent leaking this information in an attempt to make it seem Odom turned down more money to return to the Lakers.
by TSE on Jul 30, 2009 3:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is my opinion
An agent blows smoke using only team on market with any money has made off to player. Poof goes the bargaining power as that money goes to Miller. In this case, the only smoke is not leading to fire but rather to Odom’s negotiating power imploding.
On the plus side, Odom is hardly going to put in a full effort if he does resign with the L@kers as he is likely to feel like he got stiffed.
Yeah Odom is a warm weather, big city guy.
There was exactly zero percent chance that he would go to Portland with what we were “allegedly” offering
Update: 3:21PM … ESPN has revised its story to remove the 5 year/40 million dollar figures from the report.
Alright, then.
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
that is because
it was bogus…
No way the Blazers can give that offer, it is against the CBA for sure. Blazers signed Miller on the 25th I believe, but at the latest it was monday the 27th. To do that they had to renounce all exceptions, including the MLE, and they used all their available cap space.
This report is 100% false.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
sign and trade? i don’t think they had an MLE to renounce
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
nothing in that report
said “sign and trade”. That is the only possible way the BLazers could give Odom that kind of deal though, hard to believe the Lakers would take part in it.
Every team has the MLE, but to get under the cap you have to renounce the exception along with all the other exceptions.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
S&T
to make that trade the Blazers would have to send around $9 or $10 million in contracts back to LA. To do that they would have to trade either Joel, or Blake+Outlaw+filler to get to the 125%+$100k. I don’t see PDX doing that.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Maybe they offered Miller, lol. Would be possible all by himself.
The 3 months limit/December is only in combination with other players.
really?
I have to go read that again, I was 100% positive it was not possible to sign another teams FA and trade him within 3 months.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Maybe I’m confusing that with trades? Milwaukee shipped off guys they got from the Spurs in the Jefferson trade one by one.
And Larry Coon writes this in his FAQ
For sign-and-trade transactions, the initial trade which completes the transaction is obviously allowed, even though it occurs right after the player is signed. What’s not clear is whether the player’s new team can subsequently trade him prior to three months or December 15. While a literal reading of the CBA might suggest that such players cannot be subsequently traded, the league actually considers this situation to be undefined, and won’t resolve the matter until a team actually tries to make such a trade.
I think you are looking at the wrong part of the CBA
This seems to be specifically talk about sign and trade deals, which are only allowed by a players current team. I will look for the part of the FAQ which explains this as well.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
You can
But only if it’s made aware that you intend to trade the newly signed free agent immediately.
At least that’s how I’ve always understood the rule.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
that is wrong
you can not under any circumstance trade a player after signing them to a FA contract. I know Mike Barrett put it out that you could do it, but he was wrong.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
well I should clarify
that you can’t under any circumstance trade a player after signing them to a FA contract within the first 3 months of that contract, or until dec 15th, which ever is later.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I didn't get that from Barrett
I don’t read Barrett. I picked that up somewhere else. You sure? I know I’m not…..haha
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
That paragraph
is talking about a player acquired in a sign-and-trade situation. The ‘question’ is whether that newly acquired player can be traded immediately (as if he were acquired by traded) or is subject to the 3 month/Dec. 15 rule (as if he were acquired as a FA). Somebody will soon try to challenge the league to define the situation, I’m sure.
why would LA want Miller?
it makes no sense…I think it’s fabricated…at least I hope it is…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, their PGs aren't exactly stellar.
Miller > Farmar or sick daughter guy.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
thats below the belt..
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Good.
But it wasn’t meant to be. I couldn’t remember the little guy’s name.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
How about this?
What is the over/under on Odom getting type II diabetes under his new contract?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
wow
grow up.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
farmar is not horrible
and it’s not like Kobe will let a point guard do much except shoot threes cough fisher cough
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Norsk -
Nope. Players acquired in trade cannot be traded in combination with other players for two months. Players acquired as free agent signings cannot be traded for 3 months or until December 15 (whichever is later).
Could the Lakers have traded Odom to us for say a pick and cash in a S&T into our cap space thereby creating a trade exception, and then use that to sign Miller?
LA would have created the trade exception
for themselves. It would only help them get Miller if Philly agreed to a S&T.
No exception would have been created by Portland in that scenario.
Yeah, that's what I meant
But I rather think the report is bogus. Just trying to come up with a scenario where it would have worked in theory.
Free agent signings can be traded before the 90 days
But only if it’s made aware that you intend to trade the newly signed free agent immediately.
At least that’s how I’ve always understood the rule.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
you can not
that is a myth that Mike Barrett helped perpetuate on his blog.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
im not defending the validity of the report; just saying the numbers are possible even with miller signing. read too quickly about the mle, had the timing wrong in my head, good points.
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
The fact that they've pulled that portion of the report
says all it needs to say to me about its validity…..
can you confirm
for me and norsktroll about the “wait 3 months or dec 15th” rule
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
lol i hear you. i was just saying that it could have been factually accurate as written even given how poorly written it was, and even given that it was lacking in critical details and was missing confirmation, credible sourcing, important specifics such as the sign and trade possibility, etc.
there’s a question mark in the title for a reason — it raised eyebrows from the first mention.
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe they meant the Blazers offered the 5/40 to Odom "last Tuesday"
the 21st? That would make a lot more sense
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
time for you to take over that joint...
embarrassing
Go Blazers!!!!!!!!!! Wooooooooooot Wooooooooooooot!!!!!!!!!
I miss the days when journalists had to have more than one source . . .
by Corvid on Jul 30, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
something else I thought of Ben
maybe ESPN meant Tuesday the 21st? That was before Miller was signed at least.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
yeah i thought of that too but with discussion of miami’s interest which really ramped up this week, i thought it was this tuesday after miller signing
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
my thought as well
but I’ve been monitoring the ‘tweets of most of the NBA experts and if one of them had caught wind of this offer back on the 21st, we would’ve known about it and there would’ve been multiple fanshots in the sidebar
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I like Odom, but not love him, and I think 5 years is nuts
Also I don’t believe the story
Blazer Fan
Not buying it.
Look for more of these supposed “deals” and offers that were bandied about. Most likely leaked, or created by player’s agents to look like they are fielding offers.
I voted: "It might have happened but I'm going to pretend it didn't"
I’m just really confused by this. My first two reactions are: 1) If true, it shows KP remains involved in trying to make the team better, which is reassuring. 2) (Again, if true), it shows that for some players out there the Blazers—despite it’s talented roster, bright future, and potential for winning—is not an attractive enough destination. Hedo AND Lamar turned down our money: Hedo to take slightly more to play on a lousy team, Lamar taking a lot less to (somewhat, begrudgingly understandably) stick with LA. That stings, man, that stings.
But what I really want to know is, what’s the story? How could we offer it, what was the plan, is it even real? Picking up Lamar would have been worth it just for keeping him off the Lakers, let alone whatever else he would actually bring to the team; there’s no way the Lakers remain in contention after adding Artest and losing Odom and Ariza. Couldn’t we have scored a coup on L.A. just once, that would have been sweet.
We call the League and they say, wow I don't know....
KP said in a radio interview that they call the league and get responses that the league is un sure of frequently on the salary cap? Something like we’d never thought of that…. (thank you Tom Penn). My guess is that if this Odom rumor isn’t spurious…. then we may have Darius room to work with. I’ve said since Miles made the magic game # that the Blazers would petition the league to at least trade the contract in a deal (make it a DMEC), One year and the ability to preserve 2010 cap space…. or in the Odom case, the DMEC and a 1st rd to LA for Odom?
Down with the Ruskies
I agree
no way news like that would be kept secret.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
SHHHHHH
Stop with your rational arguments and let me dream for a second…mmmm, delicious 9 mill in cap space…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey
I’m just saying that the team has mentioned recently that the league has been stymied by some of their CAP questions, perhaps just perhaps the Blazers Legal Team BLT has a trick up their sleve. Based on the league doctor making the career ending determination the team is worse off than if they had just ate his contract. If Miles had simply been sent home, the team would have his $ to trade in a deal today… but they relyed on a league appt docs career ending determination and now have nothing. Does Darius count as a normal waived player? probably, is there a case to be made that he is something else due to circumstance? Yes
Down with the Ruskies
according to skeets a woj is on vacation
by Ben Golliver on Jul 30, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
It would have to come up e.g. here: http://www.nba.com/transactions/current_month_transactions.html
Or on prosporttransactions. Or a number of other sites that track player movements/signings/extensions/suspensions/whatever you want to track.
Even if they didn’t make it public immediately (like Miles’ suspension) they would have had to inform all other teams, and you can bet someone would have leaked that to the press.
CIP is on vacation as well
coincidence?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
5/40 is a ton
but let’s assess our odds at winning the West next season under all 3 scenarios.
We get Odom: We improve big time, Lakers suffer big time. We’re on the same level as the Lakers and Spurs. I’d give us a 33% chance at winning the West if everything else held up.
Miami gets Odom: Lakes suffer big time. 15%
Lakers keep him: Lakers are probably better than they were last year. 5%
Blazers and rumors!
Talking about whether or not this would be a good deal is besides the point. It’s impossible; and didn’t happen. As of Tuesday, the Blazers didn’t have any cap space. They would have had to do something extra creative to get a contract on the books for half that amount. Agents must be desperate these days. Man, the days of huge contracts for someone that’s not absolutely amazing might be over.
No such thing
as too much guac.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
by Jumbo on Jul 30, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If I had a pool
I’d fill it with guac….avocado’s would fear me!
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
My wife would disagree...
she hates it when I eat a lot of guac…I’ll spare you the gory details…
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
I can only see 2 ways this would have been possible
5/40 is a deal starting at roughly 7 million, assuming max 8% raises.
1) Either we offerred this in the context of a sign and trade deal, which we then would have had to work out with LA.
2) We somehow still had the opportunity to turn the Miller deal into a sign and trade with Philly, allowing us the ability to sign Odom using our capspace.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
sign-and-trade is not necessary
full mid level w/ 8% raises =
y1)$5.7M
y2)$6.2M
y3)$6.7M
y4)$7.2M
y5)$7.7M
-—————
$34.5M
max signing bonus = 20% of total contract
20% of $34.5M = $6.9M
$34.5M + $6.9M = $41.4M
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
we don't have the MLE
To get under the cap to sign Miller we have to renounce all exceptions, including the MLE, BI-Annual and all trade exceptions. We even had to renounce Chris freaking Dudley!
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
NOOOOOO!!!!
WE LOST DUDLEY????
I’m done! No more Blazers for me. He was all that kept me hanging on. The NBA is dead to me.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
Dudley is pimp
I hope he has a gold chain…and he dances around his house like Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder…
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
2 problems
1) we don’t have the MLE
2) bonus money come FROM the yearly salaries in a contract, NOT in ADDITION to.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
You're confused on the signing bonus
A signing bonus is 20% of the total contract amount paid up front – not an ADDITIONAL 20% paid up front. In your example, the signing bonus could have been $6.9 million, yes, but the total amount of the contract would still be $34.5 million
that 2nd idea
seems the most logical.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Yeah, this seemed a little fishy when I made the fanpost...
but it was definitely postworthy. I just question the sourcing…go figure…
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
What happened to that loophole about Blake and Outlaw?
Can they still be cut and not paid this year, like Storyteller and others used to talk about, or is it too late for that?
[reposted from sidebar thread]
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
nope
they had to be cut around the draft otherwise their salaries for this year became guarnteed for 90-10. since they were not cut, they are now on the books for good.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
So much great learning here.
Some of our wisemen should put together a little story called:
“What can be learned from mathematically challenged agents.”
With all the nuggets of wisdom we see here.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
good name for band
The Mathematically Challenged Agents
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Jul 30, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Umm.. didn't it already break.
Isn’t that what this post is about?
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
I guess you are correct.
ESPN is NOT the place for official news.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
Crap...
Odom’s going back to LA. Well, good. Now they have 3 30 year olds. I wonder who will break down first??
Typo
It was actually a $5M, 40-year offer.
by JonathanPDX on Jul 30, 2009 5:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
lol @ update.
Jeff Schwartz gets Lamar Odom ripped off.
Jeff Schwartz, to try and cover for his poor bargaining skills anonymously starts an obviously false rumor.
Jeff Schwartz reads BEdge, where people can count.
Jeff Schwartz publicly calls the rumor guy (himself) a liar.
Good work Jeff Schwartz! You are the hero of underwhelming middlemen everywhere!
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
Wonderful lesson in how much credence to put behind rumors
I’ll think of this the next time I read references to management not trading for Devin Harris, Vince Carter, David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, Gerald Wallace, Jason Kidd, Snaquille O’Meal, et al, when Deals Were on the Table: agents lie, GMs lie, GMs lie about other teams, players even lie (Millsap!), and writers shine up those lies and publish.
What I loved about Millsap’s uncle/agent was that he was such a transparent phony in his statements about Paul coming to Portland. It was refreshing, and he did not ask to be identified as a “source close to the deal”
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
Each time I hear things like this, it makes me want to stop reading the news so often.
Wait a few days, and see if any of the news is real or if it’s just a bunch of lies. It’s hard to tell anymore.
But then I realize that if I did that, I might not find out that Andre Miller Signed until the pre-season started. It happened just a few days ago, but it’s already old news. And I have this imaginary conversation with Ben (even though we’ve never talked in person, not even once):
Me: “Whose this new Miller guy?”
Ben: “We signed him over the summer, it was big news!”
Me: “I must have missed that. I think he’ll play pretty well with Channing Frye.”
Ben: “Um, Frye’s in Phoenix now.”
Me: “Oh, what did Phoenix give us?”
Ben: “Um, nothing. Portland let him walk for free.”
Me: “Well, what did we do that for? At least Sergio’s going to push our new PG in practice.”
Ben: “About that….”
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
cap reset
Does anyone know when are teams evaluated as to whether they are under the cap or not?
For a team like the Blazers, assuming they do go over the cap, I assume that there is some point during the year when the league takes a snapshot and says yea teams are under the cap and yea teams are over the cap.
And, if you are over the cap, then that means you have things like the MLE that you can use, unlike teams that are under the cap.
But, once the “shapshot” is taken and you are deemed to be over the cap, do you instantly have an MLE at that time or is there a waiting period?
Do the same rules that apply to MLE also apply to expiring contracts?
Also, suppose the Blazers are now just barely above the cap limit, but when the season kicks in KP has mentioned that the cap holds on their players in Europe go off, which leads them to have a little cap space once again. But I assume that also means they won’t be able to make use of MLE or expiring contracts until they have once again gone over the cap limit when the “snapshot” is taken.
Not that they have any need to use those tools any time soon, but I am just trying to understand the system better.
Here I'll explain it wrongly so a ton of people will come and correct me, thus answering your question:
The league takes shapshots of the team on Dec. 31 because it is the end of the year. After this point if you are under or over the cap you are stuck on that side until Dec. 31 rolls around again.
There are some exceptions:
If you are over the cap on the 31st, but lose players for the rest of the season due to injury and their salaries would put you under the cap if they weren’t on your books, then you get bumped back under the cap.
Also if you were under the cap and you traded to go over the cap, you get the MLE.
There are a few more arcane exceptions I won’t go into here, because it would be too complicated to make them up.
-———————————————————
The waiting period for getting your MLE back once you are over the cap is roughly the same time as it takes to get your appendix removed when you have appendicitis in Canada, which is three months.
The same rules apply to expiring contracts in that you can add twice the reversed cost of the contract to your MLE.
Hope it helped!
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
Responses
The evaluation for ‘is a team under the cap’ is ongoing. Each time a team makes a transaction (trade, FA signing, etc.), their team salary figure is compared with the cap figure, in order to determine if the transaction can take place under CBA rules.
My understanding is that the MLE is credited to each team on July 1st. The BAE is also credited on July 1st to each team that didn’t use the BAE in the previous salary cap year. The amounts of the MLE and any other exceptions accrued to that point (BAE, trade, disabled player, free agent cap holds, etc.) are added to the team salary figure. If that sum is still below the salary cap, then all accrued exceptions are lost. If the team salary figure is larger than the salary cap, then the team retains its exceptions until they are used or renounced.
One you lose or renounce exceptions, they are gone (except in the case of renouncing exceptions to make an offer to a restricted free agent – if the offer is matched, you can ’ unrenounce’ the exceptions). In the case of the MLE or BAE, though, it’s just that season’s version of the exception – come the next July 1st, each team will be credited with a new MLE and (if they didn’t use the BAE in the previous year) and new BAE.
I’m not sure what MLE rules you are trying to compare to expiring contracts. The MLE is an exception. An expiring contract is a player contract that is in its final year – something very different from an exception.
Yes, Portland will see the cap holds for Claver, Freeland and Koponen come off of their team salary figure on the first day of the regular season (Oct. 27?) if they haven’t signed with the Blazers by then and if they continue to be under contract with another team. So it is possible that on October 26th that the Blazers will be slightly over the cap and then slightly under the cap on October 27th. However, this will not mean that they will re-gain the lost MLE or any other exceptions that have been lost by Blazers because they have gone under the cap.
Poppycock
Makes no sense,unless1. Martell is’nt as healthy2.People are still on thetrading block. Besides Odumb takes too many plays off. Definitely not a Nate guy.
by DowntownVinnie on Jul 31, 2009 12:07 AM PDT reply actions
Nate's coached him before with team USA
and he spoke highly of him. I think there was some interest in Odom from Portland’s side (after all, they went after Turkoglum, another 4/3 with good handles) but Lamar wasn’t going to be coming to Portland unless KP could offer him something like the 5/50 they offered Hedo
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Fish story
Makes you wonder what else is up KP’s sleeve.I know Travis’es name has been mentioned in so many Trade rumors.Hope he doesn’t read th e paper alot.We could stiil upgrade but I don’twant to mess withchemistry. I like the team as is.Unless we could add Lee. But I don’t think We could get him for that cheap.
we talked about this after the Hedo offer was made
but you would think that since Portland was after Turk as their #1 FA that they probably had a deal in place for Outlaw “in case” Hedo took their offer, and that means KP must’ve already asked Roy if he was “OK” with the prospect of Outlaw not being on the roster this fall
Travis definitely has “people” who are monitoring the Blazer blogs, so he already knows how the wind was blowing from Portland’s fans following the playoffs and heading into this offseason (he’s made comments like “they all be hating on me” to the reporters in the past)
I’m sure Nate and KP have been talking to Outlaw since the Hedo and Millsap offers were made, but they don’t seem to mention his name (much) and reporters don’t seem to be asking about Trav’s offseason progress very often, either. It’s almost like he’s a non-person. It will be interesting to see his demeanor when fall camp arrives, especially if his role gets reduced like everyone’s anticipating. One thing’s for sure, he’s not the kind of person who can hide his feelings, his body language and facial expressions will always give him away
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Where did the rumor come from? That's my question...
SS&R poster “intuitive” (one of the good ones) posted a big list of bullet points yesterday attributed to John Ireland of KCAL-TV (Lakers station). Ireland blogs periodically on the Lakers… He purportedly had just talked with Lamar on the phone and was told " Blazers made a run late Tuesday, but Lamar said he just didn’t want to go there."
Is this the unnamed source of the published report? Not sure.
As far as Lamar’s agent, the very professional Jeff Schwartz, he is absolutely disavowing the report, telling ESPN last night: “It’s not true. I’ve had no discussions this week with the Blazers about Lamar.” http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4367213
So it looks like the source of the Lamar/Blazers rumor might have been Lamar himself.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Here is my guess to how the Blazers pursued Odom.
Odom dials KP: RING
KP: Hello?
Odom: Hey I heard you wanted to offer me 5 years @ 40 mil?
KP: Who is this?
Odom: Odom.
KP: Oh, hi Oden, how’s your break after all that scrimmaging? What do you need money for, Greg? Should I get Paul Allen’s credit card for you?
Odom: No. It’s O-d-o-m.
KP: What? Who is this?
Odom: Odom, Lamar Odom!
KP: Click
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
by staylost on Jul 31, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Odom called KP?
From the way I understand it… KP makes an offer to every free agent in the league to chase away boredom.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Dear Agents:
GO AWAY.
NOBODY LIKES YOU.
THE MORE USELESS BLOGFODDER YOU CHUCK AROUND LIKE A SPASMODIC “E!” ANCHOR FREEBASING METHAMPHETAMINES AND MONSTER ENERGY DRINKS, THE MORE IT BECOMES DEVASTATINGLY APPARENT THAT WE SHOULD TRUST EXACTLY ZERO PERCENT (0%) OF ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF THAT FLAPPING ROUGHLY-TOILET-SHAPED HOLE IN YOUR USELESS, POSTURING, ARI-GOLD-WANNABE FACE.
"I take the little gummy bear Flintstones vitamins…I try not to eat the lady. I try not to eat the man. Just give me the car. I try to find the car. Yea, worst case scenario, I eat the lady." - Ron Artest, 2009
See directly above.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
By the way, I have unusually strong feelings about the encroachment of agents into the negotiating process in professional sports, and the various tactics of media manipulation they employ in order to secure the best deals for their clients.
"I take the little gummy bear Flintstones vitamins…I try not to eat the lady. I try not to eat the man. Just give me the car. I try to find the car. Yea, worst case scenario, I eat the lady." - Ron Artest, 2009
It's part of the game. This is the entertainment industry and agents have been a part of it for many decades...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
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