Houston's Blog Offers a Deal
by Dave on Jul 3, 2009 12:47 AM PDT
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PrintI've been talking with the folks over at The Dream Shake since this morning. They're on to an idea that before recent events seemed near-unthinkable. They're pondering shopping Shane Battier. Here's what's changed (my interpretation, not theirs):
1. Yao Ming is out indefinitely. Tracy McGrady is eternally questionable and maybe on his way out of town. That's a ton of scoring power out the window...the two main pillars of the franchise entering the year. Battier is an amazing complementary player, perfect alongside those guys. If they're gone Houston needs more firepower. All of a sudden Battier looks like a nice piece who doesn't fit anymore, kind of like your beautiful sandcastle after the tide has come in. It's under that flood somewhere but you're not getting much use out of it anymore.
2. Just today, as reported below, Ron Artest committed to the L*kers while Trevor Ariza reportedly agreed to join the Rockets. On the surface this appears to make Battier more valuable to Houston, as the guy he formed a battery with is gone. But Ariza is, in many ways, a younger, cheaper Battier. They could use a contrast there.
I would also argue that Battier is a better fit in Portland than anyone we've considered so far, including Hedo Turkoglu. His defense, distance shooting, smarts, dependability, and seamless blending would be huge assets. He's also relatively inexpensive at $6.9 million in the coming season and $7.4 million the season after. He's not going to help the offense the same way Turkoglu would which would mean the Blazers would probably have to upgrade offensively at point guard. But with Battier in the fold you might not be afraid to take on an offensive-minded point. The backcourt would be weak defensively but Batiier, Aldridge, and Przybilla/Oden (provided neither went in the deal) would be plenty intimidating at the big positions. I wouldn't scream at all about Andre Miller being added to this mix, for instance, nor Ramon Sessions (if he's leaving Milwaukee).
Dreamshake's initial offer which you can read here is Battier for Rudy Fernandez and Travis Outlaw. You can see where that makes a certain amount of sense for them. They get younger. They get scoring. You can also see how highly they value Battier. Unfortunately Portland fans value Rudy just as highly. Given that and the comparative ages of the players involved that's probably a no-go from our end.
However they are in the market for counter-offers. That's where you come in. What would you offer them at this point for Battier? And would you rather have him than Hedo?
A couple of suggestions:
1. One comment over there suggested Rudy and Oden for Battier. If that rubs you the wrong way (and it does me) don't do that in return. Remember that until events changed Battier was all but untouchable. He has value to them.
2. Don't forget that they'd put high value on a center right now. If you're willing to part with Przybilla he could be attractive.
3. Remember Battier's salary is only $6.9 million. You can cushion the trade with cap space from our end but they don't have any. They can only take on so much salary.
In slight contravention of Point #3 I'm going to offer my own possible scenario. If the Rockets were willing to send back Brent Barry's $1.9 million salary in the deal (likely with the understanding that he'd be cut) they're starting to flirt with the possible salary range of one Hedo Turkoglu. At this point I believe Hedo would do the Rockets more good than Battier. That would be among my possible offers. The hitch is that CBA rules would prevent the trade from being consummated until December 15th, which is after the season starts. That would probably kill it for now but it could be an issue re-visited during or after the upcoming season.
Lend us whatever wisdom you have.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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I would rather have Battier than Hedo, yes
but this is kind of moot since it looks like we’re signing Hedo.
if we forget the Hedo signing for a moment, I still don't think its workable
I wouldn’t be willing to give up Rudy or Joel, and I can’t see Houston even considering the deal without one of those guys.
yeah
trading our 3rd scoring option (Rudy) for a guy who isn’t really a scorer is going in the wrong direction. we need more guys who can create/score, not less. Trading a very good defensive center who produces very littel offense for a very good SF defender who is only a complementary offensive player is also a no go for me.
If I’m bringing a SF onto this team, it has to be a creator/scorer. Otherwise, why not just stick with Batum?
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I am willing to sacrafice some offense for defense
Its the relative ages of Rudy and Battier that make it tough for me to make that move.
Battier does not fit with the Blazers
He further limits our offense and he crowds out the SF position. No Way!
Besides that, Houston Fan is highly overrating him. He is a gamer, but he is not why they were competing with LA.
IF he agrees
I can’t shake the feeling that the Blazers could end up jilted on this one. But then again KP and company have been pretty persuasive in most of their recruiting endeavors.
—Dave
following the wisdom of sextus empiricus, i remain
in a state of “mental suspense.”
otherwise known as “wait and see.”
ignacio
This is one of the first times I've actually wanted a player to be money hungry.
Ten players, two baskets, 13,000 people, one basketball. And we will decide what is done with that one basketball.
the question becomes this
What’s better: Hedo and a Blake or Hinrich or Battier and a Miller or Sessions?
Of course I’m going on the assumption that if a much better PG is gettable, we’d already be going in that direction.
I dunno, I think I take my chances with the hedo/Blake option, because it doesn’t require me to send out a Rudy, Joel or Batum, and I can try to flip some of my other assets for a PG and/or banger.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
the question actually becomes this
What’s better: add Hedo, keep Blake OR Add Hinrich or Battier, try to add Miller or Sessions, lose Rudy/Outlaw/Przy (whatever the package becomes)
I think this trade becomes more intriguing after summer league
because if Bayless can provide a scoring punch off the bench then the loss of 2 of the best scorers we have will not be so bad, but if there are deep concerns that he cant carry that water, then we might not do the deal as constructed.
Does Houston have interest in a guy named Cunningham or Mills
The rights to Freeland could be easily included too.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Bayless scored 30 a game in last year's summer league
and was essentially a non-factor during a 54-win season. Also, the Rockets love Battier, so I predict they will consider spare parts like Cunningham and Mills, well, spare parts and of no significance. Would any number of their scrubs mean anything to us in a trade for Rudy? I doubt it.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
but he had
his shot reconstructed this year, so I am interested in how it is going with more effort concentrated on it since the offseason began
the spare parts were a joke, but the rights to Freeland might be of interest to them.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
I agree on Freeland
especially with another year of solid improvement
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
And Bayless's jumper disappointed during the regular season
I thought his 2008 summer league showed he had a credible outside shot, but it turned out he needed work. I, too, hope his outside shot improved.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
I think it was just that he
had a slow trigger so it needed to be changed for the better NBA defense
In college he was a good to decent shooter as well
I have confidence he will get it back
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Love Battier. Go get him.
Not sure I ‘losing przybilla’ love him, but I’ll take him a thousand times over Hedo.
"you rock, sir" -prezofdeath
"You can add me to the list of those who think you rock" -Mortimer
"you rock
see above" -Zaron5551
"you still rock, sir." -Zaron5551
Dang you guys REALLY don't want Hedo huh
Don’t know whats up with the Blazers either. Roy is the better clutch playmaker. You already have better shooters and defenders around him than Hedo. 10 mil for this guy? LOL
How come no team with cap space pursued Lamar Odom? The BEST free agent this year by six jillion miles!
No minutes for Odom
Why spend our cap space on a PF when Aldridge plays almost 40 minutes a game anyway?
Question for Dave:
What are these CBA rules that prevent us doing a sign-and-trade of Hedo for Battier? Is there a rule preventing a sign-and-trade if the player wasn’t on your team the season before?
Lamar is versatile
He filled in at the 3, 4 and 5 for LA. Nate Mac could use him for all of Outlaws minutes and spell Oden/Pryzbilla if they wanted to go small.
He puts the ball on the floor, shoots free throws, rebounds and passes. He’s Hedo just better
You cannot sign and trade
another team’s free agent. You can only do it when re-signing your own.
—Dave
I'm glad that you're putting a stop to that ignorance.
On a similar note, Mike Barrett should be fired from his job.
LOL
AK has NEVER posted an inaccurate statement on a blog. Never.
Neither have I.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Okay, you got me here.
I’ve posted inaccurate statements many, many times.
I, however, am not paid for my contibutions. And thankfully so, too.
Yet, once I’m paid for it, anyone and everyone can call for my head—literally!
Well, not literally, for I’d be dead without my head, so let’s make it figuratively.
That should read as contributions rather than "contibutions."
I’m buzzed, though, so now I’m the worst of Mike & Mike combined.
LOL again
I wish I’d thought to make a spelling error while discussing errors on blogs.
If blogging was the only thing for which Barrett was paid, you might have a point. Ultimately, he’s an entertainer and the blogging thing is just a very minor part of his job.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
You can sign and trade FOR (I think)
another team’s restricted free agent, ie that team can match your offer and then trade the free agent to you. No? Once you sign an UFA he’s yours and can’t be matched or traded immediately.
For example, sign Sessions to a deal that AVERAGES slightly over the MLE, Milwaukie has the right to match any offer (Arenas rule), they do so and immediately do a S&T with the Blazers for Outlaw. This is the deal I’ve been pushing thru the off-season. Nothing meets our team needs like this deal IMO. Then go get a 2nd tier backup PF. (this deal assumes Harris and Hinrich are unavailable in trades). This deal would look good if we added Battier.
I’m no cap expert but I think this could happen.
I really dont undstand this obsession...
It boggles my mind that we are even pursuing Hedo…but I’ve come to terms w/ the idea and realize that seeing him in a portland uniform is pretty close to a done deal.
With that said, i really dont understand the point in adding yet another sf to this roster. I feel like everyone keeps sweeping Nic Batum under the rug w/ all this talk. Granted he is only 19 years old but he is going to be better than Shane Battier. I understand that after making the playoffs last year people are itching to do something to get us over the hump…but why are we in such a damn hurry to add more pieces and possibly mess with the chemistry we’ve already got.
This much is true. Brandon Roy is the only guy on this current roster that can create a shot for himself whenever he wants. Hedo can do much of the same thing…which is why Ive given second thought to the idea of bringing him in.
Why add ANOTHER guy (battier) who basically makes a living just sitting and waiting for someone to create a shot for him? We already had Rudy, Batum, Blake, Travis, doing that!
I dont understand why we arent pursuing a PG or a backup 4. The team needs another guy who can create and someone with muscle down low….
You'll not find
a person more confident in Batum’s eventual future than me. However that future is still a little ways down the road. A guy like Battier could capably fill the gap.
—Dave
and battier would not mind some 18-22 minute games
which would allow much more time oncourt for batum
ignacio
Outlaw/Blake
For Battier and Chuck Hayes would greatly improve our D and both would fit in well. I wouldn’t want to include any cap space or young players as we would need these to upgrade our PG situation. This would give Houston two quality vets and more cap space next summer to rebuild through FA.
Not a chance the Rockets would trade for Blake now
Outlaw is the throw in that makes the deal work, not the guy we want. Rudy is the one. And now that he’s going to be unhappy and is threatening to leave to go home, it seems time to sell him for something that would help. The Blazers desperately need some defense. I firmly believe that Battier would make you a championship caliber team
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I'm happier with Battier than an obnoxiously expensive Hedu
which smacks of how we overpaid for Miles and Randolph. But I agree that Battier doesn’t improve our offensive end, whereas Hedu does; I doubt Hedu plays any defense after his contract, however.
The problem, of course, is that we need both, and have only two spots in which to upgrade significantly.
Maybe we need to stand pat, let our young guys grow another year with more playing time, and use the even better cap space next year to compete for all that free agent talent.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Battier is great, but...
We don’t need him! We’ve got Batum, and he’s already approaching Battier’s level, and will soon be ten times the player Battier is. I agree that Turk isn’t the best option for the Blazers right now, but at least he fills a role we don’t have, (a playmaking 3/4 combo), unlike Battier who is a lockdown defender who occasionally hits an open, a role at which Batum already excels at and will improve upon.
Batum is not "already approaching Battier's level"
That’s beyond hyperbolic. Battier is 50X the defender Batum is or will be in the next two years.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Rudy Fernandez & Greg Oden for Shane Battier
Stop it, you’re killing me!. My sides hurt from laughing so hard. I love Shane Battier—he’s a tough defender, reliable corner three-point shooter, and a smart, high-character guy. But that also describes Ime Udoka. You know: the guy the Blazers wouldn’t pay diddly to keep.
Yikes, this is truly the silly season.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Jul 3, 2009 1:29 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That was a fan getting a little to ambitious
Not what the general consensus is that the Rockets could get
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I really dont understand
I dont get this…
“He’s also relatively inexpensive at $6.9 million in the coming season and $7.4 million the season after”
So we pay $2 million more (maybe) for a guy that can actually do something at the OFFENSIVE end, where we need the most help? (talking Turkey here…)
I dont get how people can say paying around 9 or 10 mill is too much for Hedo, yet you’re willing to spend more than that on Heinrich or just a tad less on Battier….Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Hedo nearely an ALL-STAR??? Does that mean nothing? If Ben Gordon can command 10 mill a year, I think hedo’s asking price is beyond reasonable. The guy was THE guy on the Magic’s run to the finals
our defense isnt so hot either
I know the plus minus on Hedo says that he is a defender, but after watching him since his days on the Kings I would say he is not a defender.
Hinrich and Battier both excel at defense while maintaining adequate to decent offense.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Lets be rational...
Rather than basing it on numbers we’ll just go by what you saw?
I dont mean to sound like a jerk, but really, numbers dont lie.
if you think
+/- is the end of the story for defense then you probably need to take another look at it.
Even Hollinger will tell you that looking at stats only is a bad way to go, you have to look at the basketball around the stats as well.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Im just saying
I trust KP more than I trust John Hollinger. If we sign Hedo that means KP approves, if KP approves I have no reason to doubt him. If Hollinger is really that bright, he’d be working for an actual team, he wouldnt just be another part of the media.
didnt you just tell me to be rational
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Yes I did.
Why should I doubt the guy? hes obviously a brighter basketball mind than the two of us and has done nothing to dissuade me from believing that, so again, why should I doubt him? You gotta have faith in your GM, be optomistic…if this is the move he makes we should back him 100%.
Im not really into faith
all of his other moves have had obvious merit and benefit, but this one is more nebulous and only time will tell.
BTW the “t” is for Thomas as in doubting Thomas.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
But KP wanting him doesn't mean he can play defense
Which he can’t
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I should add
that I think his +/- is based on having an extremely athletic shot blocker backing him up, and his length allows him to effectively funnel players.
If he gets in an iso he is done, and with Portland switching on picks I imagine you are going to see a lot of Hedo in isolation with a scorer and that will put a lot of pressure on the bigs.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Well, then he won't work
Since we don’t have any athletic shotblockers for Hedo to funnel on our team…..Oh wait…..
Numbers lie all the time
Raw data is meaningless. Interpretation gives it significance. And all interpretations are biased. You can see enormous statistical manipulations on sports sites every day, even if it’s only manipulation by over-reliance on a certain number.
—Dave
What?
You mean statistical wizards like John Hollinger and Dave Berri don’t agree 100% of the time?
That boggles my mind!
/sarcasm
Dave Berri thinks David Robinson was better than Hakeem Olajuwon
I know you were being sarcastic, just wanted to put that ridiculous statement of numbers by him
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Numbers never lie
It’s how you set up your Excel spreadsheets that is dishonest.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 3, 2009 2:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't mind Hedo at $9 million
but I think he’s going to ask for more than that. We’ll see.
—Dave
this move is about the development of Oden
I really think this is the bottom line of their decisions right now. In order for us to win a ring, we need Greg to dominate. Hedo is the best player available for the development of Greg, this is what distinguishes him from the pack. His passing skills into the post are tops at the sf pos. Other factors here as well, LMA´s ability to hit from range and natural tendancy to play away from the hoop on offense provides us the ability to maximize one of our stars strong suits.
I really like Battier, but in the end I think Turk not only takes pressure of Roy but puts both Oden and LMA in a better position offensively. Both I would think would shoot a very good percentage with him on the floor. And of course he frees Brandon from some doubles.
As far as his defense goes, he´s a much better team defender than man to man, but he´s not too bad. Not lock down by any means, but he won´t get blown up and lost out there…too much. A “net possitive” on defense as Bucher or one of those yahoos put it.
In the end tho, this move is about getting Greg to dominate.
by Dudehere on Jul 3, 2009 1:42 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
assuming we also will get Kirk or another fleet footed
pg otherwise we, as a team, will get blown up by some rather inferior teams far too frequent.
Center
I think they would want one of our centers which I don’t think we would be willing to do. For now we need them both. The thought of even trading Joel makes me cringe. Remember, he is our starting center until GO proves he can play more than 15 min without getting 5 fouls. Which, unless everyone has forgotten last year, he hasn’t came close to doing yet. So I say spend the money on Hedo and trade the players for a PG.
It's just so goofy to throw Oden's name out there as if he is tradeable. The guy is not going anywhere.
I think Battier is worth giving up Outlaw, and Pryzbilla. Maybe Martell Webster and Pryzbilla.
if we give up Outlaw and Przybilla
we should get Brooks and Battier in return. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
I like this idea
If the Rockets were willing to send back Brent Barry’s $1.9 million salary in the deal (likely with the understanding that he’d be cut) they’re starting to flirt with the possible salary range of one Hedo Turkoglu. At this point I believe Hedo would do the Rockets more good than Battier. That would be among my possible offers. The hitch is that CBA rules would prevent the trade from being consummated until December 15th, which is after the season starts. That would probably kill it for now but it could be an issue re-visited during or after the upcoming season.
That’s makes sense for both teams, I believe. Even if it would happen only mid-December. So what? Rockets will get the guy, who could lead their team with or without Yao. Pair him with Ariza and you will have a perfect wing combo.
We’ll get short-term upgrade (2 years and Shane as a mentor is perfect for Batum’s development). Big upgrade on D, and don’t underestimate Battier’s O. He has limited skill set, but great experience and decision making ability. Remember, he was the only guy in last year’s HOU squad, who could deliver the ball to Yao in low post.
So, I think Hedo-Battier swap could be a great deal for both teams, even if we should wait. So, sign Hedo now, but keep in mind that posibility.
Rudy & Nic
We'd give up too much
I would want a draft pick back in that deal. Hedo is better than Battier.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Houston probably wants a center
and we probably want to keep Joel P
so hows about a 3 team trade
Orlando
send MLE Gortat, Anthony Johnson/Lue
receive: Blake
Portland
send: Blake and Outlaw
receive Battier
Houston
send Battier
receive: Gortat and Outlaw
This probably does not work though as Orlando does not seem to be getting enough salary back
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
marcin gortat is a restricted free agent who just gave dallas a verbal commitment
which orlando, if they care to, can match
ignacio
when the ink
dries, then I will believe it
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
NO NO NO!!!!
Are you kidding me? Outlaw (3rd leading scorer) and Rudy(4th leading scorer) for Batier who plays the same way as Batumn! NO way! We already have Batumn!!!
The idea is get get more offensive threats to take the pressure of Roy and LMA, This goes in the opposite direction. Outlaw and Rudy are very valuable players and each of them by them selves are worth more than another Batumn clone. I like Batumn and want him to play more minutes.
Leave this team alone and let them develop!
From a Rox fan
1- I DO NOT believe in a million years that our GM Morey will trade Battier!
2- If he did trade Battier to Portland, then I’m sure Rudy WOULD have to be included. Thats the only player the Rockets like.
3- No thank you on Joel P, yes we need a center, but not him please, We could simply go after Zaza in FA.
4- Are some of you really comparing Batum to Battier? WOW…Battier is the BEST 1 on 1 defender in the league. Batum has some future, but no where near the Battier level as a defender.
5- Did I mention WE DO NOT wnat to trade Battier….Even for Rudy not worth it.
1. Neither do I
2. No deal then
3. If you prefer Zaza over Joel, I wish you the best of luck
4. Batum is close to Battier now and has 10 years to catch up
5. I couldn’t see Morey trading Battier.
- Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
Rockets fan here.
I’m surprised how most everyone is talking about dealing for Battier instead of Hedo. I was thinking that if the Blazers sign Hedo and Rudy is unhappy then they can package Rudy+Filler for Battier. If it was as simple as the Blazers wanting Battier instead of Hedo, then just do a simple Battier for Rudy swap since Portland is under the cap. Otherwise here’s what I’d offer.
First off it sounds like in order to open up the cap room to sign Hedo, Portland might renounce Koponen and Freeland. If that’s the case then how about:
2nd Rounder
Cash (Maybe 1 million)
for
Freeland
We need a big man and Freeland could be a cheap big body. The rockets just spent 6 million on draft picks so they’re not afraid to spend on prospects. And if you were going to renounce him anyway…
Secondly if the Blazers sign Hedo and rudy is unhappy, then how about:
Battier
for
Rudy
Outlaw or Blake or Webster
Rockets are pretty much in rebuilding mode and would welcome a younger player like Rudy. As filler, I’d like Outlaw or Blake since they’re both expiring, so there’s little risk involved. I might agree to Webster instead, but I’m not as high on him due to his contract and injury history. But he’s still young so maybe.
For the Blazers, I figure that once Hedo is on board, they’d be in “win now” mode and could use a veteran like Battier who can come off the bench, defend, groom Batum, provide leadership, hit threes whatever. Portland can also thin out the multitude of SG/SF’s on the team with a Battier for Rudy + Outlaw or Webster deal. Hedo and Battier are savvy veterans, would give the team good experience, and be a quality offense/defense tandum.
What do you think?
Wouldn't trade Rudy for Battier straight up...
let alone throwing in extra from our part.
Rudy is a 24 year old dynamic scoring threat that is owed 4 million dollars over the next 3 years. That’s pretty much gold in this league. His PER of 15.5 last year was 2nd among shooting guards in the NBA under 25. Battier is great, but we could have had Ariza pretty easily ourselves, and I’m not sure anyone is ready to give up a serious asset that fits with our core, and it’s window for a player soon to be on the wrong side of 31. Don’t get me wrong, I think Battier is the best player in the league at doing what he does, but he’s also not a great fit with the whole timeline thing we’ve got going on here. If we can get him for a non core piece that’s one thing, but throwing away a piece like Rudy, at a time that being under the salary cap is still so important doesn’t make sense for this team.
I just don’t see the match.
Well the trade proposal was kind of predicated on Rudy being unhappy.
Read that Rudy was unhappy about the prospect of Hedo joining the team. If everything with Rudy is all fine and dandy and it’s all BS or a misunderstanding then I can see why Portland might not want to move him.
obviously...
just fyi, most of us here at BE wanted Battier before the moneyball article on him came out.
The match is clearly on the fact that Rudy is upset about Hedo coming
Now that Hedo might not, I don’t know if it would work. I do think that Rudy is still going to be upset with Portland though, it’s up to KP to smooth things over
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I think we don't need both Hedo & Battier
And Rudy is to valuable for us. His is young and cheap. Shane is great player, but he is near the end of his career. Hedo for Shane makes sense. Rudy – not so much
Rudy & Nic
I'm not sure why you guys think the Rox would want Hedo.
Like I said earlier the Rox are pretty much in rebuilding mode. That’s why we’re talking about dealing Battier in the first place. We aren’t looking to give a 30 year old Hedo 50 million bucks.
Besides even if we did want Hedo, we wouldn’t need to go through this charade of having the Blazers sign him and then trading him to us in December. We could just work a 3 way deal where Hedo goes to Houston, Battier/Barry go to Portland and Orlando gets cash, a pick and an enormous trade exception.
So you guys completely gave up on Yao?
I can’t get why you’re in rebuild. What about last run with this core, maybe added some firepower in Hedo?!
Rudy & Nic
They might be in rebuild with the Yao news coming down
still there’s a chance that Yao is fine, but even then, they’re going to be signing Ariza, making Battier expendable.
Not completely given up but we're not depending on Yao anymore.
You can’t depend on a guy that keeps breaking down. T-mac is expiring. We essentially traded an older border-line all-star in Artest for a younger role-player in Ariza. All our guys except for Yao and Battier are pretty young. So unless we make a blockbuster deal with T-mac’s expiring contract this team is not competing in ’09. All future dealings need to be looking towards 2010 and beyond. So Hedo is a no go for the Rockets.
It just doesn't seem to be a good match
The reason you don’t want Hedo was supposed to be the reason we didn’t want Hedo. While you’re in rebuilding mode, we’re just getting out of that stage and aren’t quite prepared the championship phase just yet. If we were to go that route, I think Battier would be the better fit here, but that doesn’t really mean squat to you guys. In the 3 way deal you’d propose, it might be in the best interest of everyone involved if we got Battier, you got the FA of your choice (Varejao?) and either picks or Euro’s from us and Orlando got a default pick and a TE out of it.
if anything
for battier we would have to give up priz, which if thats the case, the main thing i want back is tmac and that huge contract. if possible, we could do raef the way KVH was done in the kidd trade.
getting battier and tmac (or his expiring to use around the trade deadline if its needed) possibly a pick thrown in somewhere
for blake/outlaw/priz/and raef? basically its battier for priz with expirings all around.
then we could use the MLE to pick up a C
play bayless, mills, and possibly rudy/roy at the 1.
not gonna happen in a million years, but i think tmac’s contract at the trade deadline would make the blazers sure fire contenders. a 22mil ’10 expiring is priceless.
Then put Priz in on your side.
Battier
Landry
for
Rudy
Priz
Even then I’d feel a bit shorted. Maybe toss in a prospect as well. The blazers have drafted so many guys the last couple years, somebody’s got to be a worthy sweetner.
Don't get me excited!
Battier is such a good fit here it’s unreal. But I just dont see it happening.
I like Battier.
I would do the trade for Travis and Rudy even though I like them both. I am also ok with not doing any deals. A 54 win team does not need alot of change. Still, Battier is a great player on both sides of the court and raises our team I.Q. Hedo and Battier I would take Battier. Less risk. Less reward? I don’t know.
Rudy Tootie..... I just don't get it
Tweener
The trade would be Joel for Battier which would make sense of both sides even if Hedo signs with Portland
huh?
if Hedo signs, then we acquire a 5th small forward and carry only 1 center. How exactly does that make sense?
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Outlaw and Webster...
for Battier. No way Rudy or Batum is included. Maybe Bayless instead of Webster, but then we have too many SF and not enough PG on our roster.
Also....
If we are going to make a move at SF, I much prefer Hedo to Battier. Yes Battier is a great “complimentary” veteran, but I beleive the reason KP and Nate like Turkoglu so much is that he changes the whole personality of that position for us. Instead of being a complimentary position, SF now becomes on offensive threat. The goal is to take some pressure off Roy and Aldridge at the offensive end. Turkoglu does that; not so sure Battier will…
eh, not interested
not sure why. I definitely would not include Pryzbilla under anything circumstances. Oden is injury and foul prone, Aldridge is not a back-up center and the Blazers only have rookies for back-up power forwards.
Battier+a playmaking point guard would be preferable to Turkoglu, but I don’t see that happening.
Blazers still need bu POWER FORWARD
The Blazers need A back up power forward.
Mark ‘Dyess’ down for a double-double each night. After re-joining Detroit mid-season, the polite veteran posted a workmanlike 10 points and 10 rebounds per game. McDyess could replace Yao in Houston, where he, coincidentally, has his off-season home. Make him an offer KP and let him know Portland is where he needs to be if he wants a RING. The Blazers need McDyess as their back up power forward/Center.
Hold on to Rudy
Before we all get ahead of ourselves, remember Brandon has yet to play a full season. Rudy’s a pretty good insurance policy at a pretty good price for at least 2 more years.
huh?
Roy played 78 of 82 games last year and 74 of 82 the year before. Those are both full seasons. 82 game players are pretty rare.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I think if we trade Rudy, we need to get a PG out of the deal.
Hou/Por both value their respective players too much for something to happen.
I agree
None of this talk is about what the Blazers actually need. It’s just window-shopping for what’s out there. I don’t want to be shipping Rudy or Joel out unless it’s for a spectacular improvement at point guard.
how off the block would brooks be?
he is a duck, Heck he even got cheered in the Rose garden
-Im not really down with trading any of our young talent, but if brooks and bat were on the block i might make a push for it.
lol at battie if brooks is on the block
then I’d have no issues at all about including rudy. It would be worth to include joel if we had another back up center. Brooks is excellent assuming DH is off the table. I want DH….
After a lot of deliberation
I’m good to go with Turk, so no to Battier. I’m hopeful that Turk will give us what we need more than a new PG or a new backup PF – and that’s forcing a new offensive system. It will be harder to double team Brandon with Turk creating and scoring, and Turk will make Rudy and (most importantly) Oden better. Turk will actually pass the ball to Rudy when he’s open (unlike Travis) and that will improve Rudy’s shooting percentage and shot volume. But the biggest benefit of this acquisition will be Turk teaching Oden to run the P&R, and then successfully executing the P&R with him. Oden is the key to a championship, and Turk can be instrumental in his development and productivity on the court.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 3, 2009 8:09 AM PDT reply actions
Battier and Bibby...
Turk, while good, is overpriced due to his recent success and would take us out of the market for a decent rental PG. Battier’s game meshes better with our existing players. You can’t reinvent the wheel every season and expect to realize success…
Rudy is a valuable piece of the Blazer puzzle going forward. Not that Houston would do it, but trade Outlaw for Battier and eat the rest of his salary in cap space…no Rudy…no Joel…it’s just not in our best interests…
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
I don't think he's overpriced.
I looked at the list of guys making $10m. He’s in the right ballpark. Some are much better, but quite a few are far worse that Turkoglu.
by LicketyBrindle on Jul 3, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Such comparisons aren't really a good metric for "good" or "bad" contracts
If anything, the number of players worse than Hedo should be a cautionary tale, since Hedo 2010, 2011 and 2012 is going to be worse than Hedo 2009.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 3, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I WOULD do the Przybilla trade.
I think when Oden is healthy, we have the best center tandem in the NBA. Pryz ought to be starting for somebody. I’d trade him because I like him that much.
And I think Battier is just the player the Blazers need to help Oden get better. His biggest problem last year – aside from injury – was foul trouble. He got into foul trouble because we was constantly helping out on smaller players that had gotten past a weak perimeter defense. Battier on the floor = supreme perimeter defense = Oden gets to stay put = Oden’s in the game longer = better, faster development of our big guy.
Someone said in another thread recently that this team will only ever be championship-caliber if Oden develops into a force in the paint. I second that. And we need to be making moves that facilitate that. Battier for Pryz would be that kind of move.
don't go trying to stick bayless
in a deal I would otherwise go for in a heartbeat. I can’t imagine the rockets giving up brooks that easily though. With yao injury prone, I would expect brooks to be the most untouchable player on their roster.
Brooks isn't even close to untouchable
I love the guy, but don’t forget that he’s 5’10 and can go cold quickly. I still want him on the Rockets and you’d have to do better than that.
I stand by my Rudy and TO trade for Battier, it helps both teams
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
If Batum is a Battier in the making, how do we use Battier now?
Realizing that statistics do not tell the whole story, I think it’s interesting to compare some 2008-09 stats, adjusting Batum’s to take account of the fact that he averaged 18 minutes compared to the 34 that Battier averaged.
GP Min Pts 3Pt 3P% FTM FT% Off Def TOT Asts Stls Blks TOs PFs
Battier 60 34 7.3 1.5 38.4 0.9 82.1 0.9 3.9 4.8 2.3 0.8 0.9 0.8 1.9
Batum 79 18 10.2*1.5* 36.9 0.9* 80.8 2.1* 3.2* 5.3* 1.7* 1.7* 0.9* 1.1* 3.4*
- extrapolated for 34 minutes; calculations mine based on stats from Draft Express.
The most significant statistical differences here are offensive production, with the edge going to Batum, and personal fouls, which Battier commits at about half the rate of Nick.
Battier’s forte is defense, which is also Batum’s at this stage of his career.
As I recall in some comment about the draft, Dave wrote something to the effect that when you acquire a new player you don’t want to merely duplicate what you already have. Battier is a mature Batum and would take his minutes. As much as it surprises me to say it, Turkoglu makes more sense for Portland in that he brings a combination of abilities not duplicated by any other Blazer. With Turk starting at SF, then sliding to PF, you can give him starter minutes but also give Batum, coming off the bench, as many or even more minutes than he had last year as a starter. The one without a place on the team anymore: Outlaw. The one in limbo: Webster. The one still coming off the bench for the same number of minutes: Rudy.
Portland should NOT trade for Battier. And that’s the truth.
Not sure about this post.
I’m a Houston fan, but if you’re going to look at stats, Battier will always look inferior. If you want potential over 6-8 years, then absolutely, you keep Batum. But there is a significant view that Battier is much, much better than Batum now and will be in the next 2-3 years. So if Portland wants to win now, Battier would be very valuable. Also, Battier’s offensive skills are more solid than he often gets credit for. Battier is no Bruce Bowen in his prime. Battier has a nifty post-up game, especially against size mismatches, and he can be a slasher if need be. He makes everyone else on the floor better, and rarely makes costly mistakes.
Outlaw + Rudy for Battier is outrageous on a lot of levels
I think if you are going to overvalue a particular skill set, you are better off over-valuing Rudy’s play-making and shot-making ability vs. Battier’s defense. Basketball is about outscoring your opponent, and I think Rudy by himself is better than Battier in that regard.
Outlaw and Rudy are both good 3-point shooters, and while Rudy has a chance to be a great 3-point shooter, both have the potential to be better than Battier. Both are better are attacking the basket (putting the ball on the floor) than Battier. Battier admittedly brings better defense, but then, we have Batum for that. Lest we forget, we also have Webster.
The only way the trade as originally proposed makes any sense is if Webster is the backup 2. I just like Rudy at the 2 a whole lot better than Webster, who physically fits the 3 perfectly.
Bad trade.
Battier is a good player, but Outlaw and Rudy?! More like Outlaw and a couple of draft picks and/or some cash. Or throw in Webster, but I don’t like that very much either. That’s too much talent to give up, and Outlaw was a 6th MOY candidate. I don’t think TO has a future with the PTBs at this point, but he’s got some valuable skills to bring to a team.
I've read a lot of discussion here and it's been great
My question is, what’s your reasonable “It helps both teams trade”?
Though I will say this: Rudy has to be in the trade or it is worthless to the Rockets
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
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