Blake is the starting PG: that's Nate's story, and he's sticking to it! (Updated with poll: when do you think Miller will replace Blake as the starting PG?)
by two4larue on Jul 29, 2009 6:44 PM PDT
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In case you missed it, Nate was on with Suke (1080) this afternoon and answered questions re: the offseason, Andre Miller, the starting PG position and style of play. Here are a few of Nate's quotes:
(6:00) "Blake is the starting PG, I talked to Andre about that... we will from the start of the season bring Andre off the bench... sometimes we get caught up in who's starting and the bottom line is who's finishing... those guys you run out there from the beginning... you try to use those guys to establish a rhythm... I don't think it's as important as far as players starting as a combination that works for you... what you try and do is get a balance, a rotation that works where you can take advantage of your players, your team and what they do well ... our starting unit played well and I anticipate that is the way we're gonna start this year"
(11:00) "The players will dictate how we play... we've tried to take advantage of what we do best, and if that is half court and we execute when we slow it down and we can get a shot at the basket we will do that. If we have to play zone, we will do that. We're gonna take advantage of what we're capable of doing. So, have they played the style of play [that I did in Seattle]? I think you adjust as you go. You try to put your players in a position where they can do well and you take advantage of the talent that you have. I think we've gotten the most out of our guys over the years. So, have they played the style I want? (I mean) Yeah, I've been fine with how we've played over the past few years."
What I take away from this interview is that Nate is the kind of coach who adjusts his system to the skills of his players. If his "lead dog" is named Roy and Brandon plays best at a relaxed pace in the half court set, then that's what they'll run (and it's been successful!) But now by adding Miller they'll have an opportunity to run more (at least, with the 2nd unit...) and Nate will certainly "trust" Andre to make good decisions with the ball more than he ever did with Sergio. I know AK1984 and Dwight Jaynes will claim that McMillian has always been a "slow-it-down" coach who will never loosen the reins and let his ballclub play at an uptempo "pace". But if that's the style that will help his players succeed and win ballgames, I get the impression that Nate will be in favor of it--at least during the regular season and up until the last few minutes of a close game.
Update: After reading the predictable responses I decided to add a poll. (And hey, maybe there should be a Blazer's Edge T-shirt handed out to the Nostra-Bedger who most accurately predicts the game or practice where it's learned that Miller is running with the starters instead of the white unit? I'll leave that up to the mods...)
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cool!
i think that this will work out good! i still wonder what the playing time will be for these 2 point guards. even though blake starts i would assume that miller will get more playing time, he is most definitely the better point guard. im sure that ALL of blakes minutes will be played with the first unit; however andre will more than likely play with both units. Im also pretty sure that either roy or andre will be on the floor at all times. that way there is always atleast one person on the floor that can drive to the rim.
i think this is giong to be a smart move by mcmillan.
andre for 6th man??
If Dre plays with the second unit
shouldn’t we design the system around the skills we are focusing on? IMO, bring Oden off the bench also. Pryz does great defending many of the league’s centers, and oden would not be able to create early foul trouble. Hopefully he will be ready when the season starts, I’m an oden believer, but we need to be prepared to make the best of whatever happens. I think Oden having Dre play with him will really help his game. If Oden and Dre were both doing 24 minutes a game coming off the bench, they could be very effective. No team has a second unit ready to stop the Dre to Oden lob.
No team has a second unit
ready to stop the Dre and Joel pick and roll, the Dre to Rudy lob, the Dre penetrate and kick out to Rudy or whichever SF is playing for the 3, the Dre-led fastbreak with Rudy, Travis, and SF (Nic or Martell) filling the lanes.
Greg will play plenty with Andre, especially in the fourth, I expect. But I think we want Greg starting so we’ve got an additional scoring threat at the start of games.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think we want Greg starting so we’ve got an additional scoring threat
this could be the same decision with Martell starting, instead of Batum. It’s a toss-up, because Webster would help space the floor with Miller in the game, but Nic would also benefit from Andre running the fast break
the starting lineup will eventually come down to who Nate thinks will matchup best with Roy and LMA at the PG, SF and C positions, over the long haul
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I expect Martell to start
if he is healthy, in condition, and playing well. Even if Nic is slightly better overall, I like Martell’s 3 point threat on the starting unit. Depending on game situation, I could easily see Nic closing out games, if we need the defensive stopper.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
fire nate. /s <<<< Font!!!
I’m getting there real quick though.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
Jack Ramsey said repeatedly that fast break points
were easy, high percentage shots. It has surprised me that Nate has not to this point emphasized fast breaks. It not only sets up easy shots but if the opportunity is not there, then the team can get into its offensive set early and has less chance of being forced to take a shot as the 24 second clock runs out — like it did numerous times last year.
Stu Inman: a soft-spoken, witty and brilliant basketball guy -- who had so much to do with Portland's only championship. He believed that you won with not just great players, but with great people. (D Jaynes 2-2-07 Portland Tribune)
but we made a lot of those shot clock beating shots..heh heh
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Jul 29, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I kind of remember it that way too
I also remember several 4th"s where Travis poured in 8 pts and every play the other team ran was right at him worth about 10 or 12,I think Dre and and Nic or Rudy would be a much better 4th quarter crew than Steve and Travis
by southern oregon on Jul 29, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
82games.com keeps track of this.
We won 50% of our first quarters, which is obviously average at 17th place. Our point differential was +0.4 for 14th place. Again, very average.
In the 4th quarter, we were tied for first with Cleveland, winning 64% of the quarters. We had the best point differential at +2.5.
The conclusion is that you remembered correctly.
Thanks for looking that up!
To me it sounds like early next season Blake will be getting the majority of the minutes in the first quarter (I don’t see too many teams pull a starter after less than 6 min, unless there is foul trouble), and the better player (Miller) will be in the game in the end.
I disagree with this strategy. As poster looked up, our starting unit was pretty average in the first quarter. I think that this was in part because early on Roy doesn’t look to score early and when Roy is passive offensively the lineup of Blake, Roy, Batum, LA, Joel doesn’t provide enough offense. This is when we need someone who can create easy shots for himself and others.
At the end of the game Roy takes over offensively, which is one reason why we are so effective. Usually we isolate Roy or run a pick in roll with LA. In this situation you need to space the floor with good shooters like Blake.
Here would be my strategy:
Start Miller and let him run the offense early in the game. Just like last season Roy saves his scoring for the end of the game, but instead of posting up LA and settling for average looks let Miller take over and hopefully create high percentage offense.
At the end of the game go with Blake and run the same isos and pick and rolls that were so effective at the end of games last year.
by WildlyRamified on Jul 29, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: your strategy
Given that Rudy is more adept at a fast break attack then Brandon, then are you saying that we should start Miller and Rudy, and bring in BRoy as 6th man?
See, I don't believe Andre Miller should run the fast break after grabbing a defensive rebound.
Although Miller is proficient on the defensive glass for a point guard, I’d rather him slowly bring the ball up and get into an offensive set. Whether it’s a high pick-and-roll or side screen-and-roll with Greg Oden — or, perhaps, a give-and-go play where Oden dishes the ball back to Miller instead of finishing himself — I’d prefer that to sloppy, inefficient run-and-gun basketball.
I’d also like it if Miller’s dribble-drive plays came via screens — with LaMarcus Aldridge coming up high or mid to set a pick — because it’s a lot easier to make a lay-up or draw contact when taking it to the hole in a controlled manner with an open lane. Oh, and if it’s Aldridge who sets the sceen, Oden will be down near the hoop to gobble up an offensive rebound if Miller pulls a Jerryd Bayless — which is unlikely from the veteran — by shooting wildly inside and missing at the rim.
http://www.cybersportsusa.com/hooptactics/hilozone.asp
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
MIller is more herky-jerky than Bayless
They had more video highlights of Andre on the Talkin’ Ball program tonight and the thing that struck me about his game is how effectively he uses pump fakes and has such good balance and leverage to get his shot off in traffic against taller players and better leapers. He’s more methodical, like Roy, when he penetrates. Miller’s never in a hurry, unlike Rex who plays like his hair is on fire.
Jaynes was asking coach Demo about your favorite sugject (tempo) and Dean said he felt the Blazers had a “natural” pace to their games “from start to finish” last year (keep in mind DD is a former John Chaney assistant, and Temple’s not exactly a run-and-gun system, plus he’s been with Nate for 9 years, now) but more towards the points you made, Dean also said that Miller will
“help us quicken it up, we’ll be able to get easier baskets, on slips, bigs setting screens, slipping to the basket, which would make the offense appear to be a little bit faster. He’s just going to elevate everyone’s play, because he’s a connector, he connects the dots and that’s really important for a good ballclub to have”
I don’t know if you saw the TB program already, but it should re-air on Comcast over the next few days if you want to check it out
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It should re-air on Comcast...
Which reminds me… when can I watch the Blazers again?
sorry can't help you, there
maybe there will be web casts of games once the season starts, justintv.com, etc
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/30/969564/a-place-to-consolidate-comcast
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This team should never, ever slowly bring it up
With all this depth, you want to push the pace.
That doesn’t mean you rush the shot. But you want the opponents to have to hustle back on defense every time, and be prepared to take advantage of it when they don’t.
Push the ball up, then if nothing easy develops, pull up and run a play. We should be devastating in the half court, so you are right that we don’t want to get sloppy on the break — but fastbreaking doesn’t have to be sloppy.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 30, 2009 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
While we really need a mind set challenge to start the games and
I would do it this way tell the starters we want 20 points against no more than 12 in the first 8 min. of the game then send in the 2nd team with the exact same goal for their 8 min. let us get out of the gate fast this year. If we do this we get more playing time to the younger bench. The team is good enough to blow out the other team each and every night. Remember the end of last year 20 + point blow outs were the norm. Except the 1st game of the playoffs where it was Houston which did it to us. If the goals are set,then the mind set can accomplish what needs to happen.
I don't see how "average"
proves that we were “pretty bad”.
If Greg comes out improved, we’ll be better in the first quarter even if nothing else changes.
I predict that we won’t be that great in the fourth quarter this year. Too many blowouts with the scrubs on the floor. Although, there is a possibility I’ll be wrong on this, because our scrubs will probably be better than theirs.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
We dug ourselves into a deep hole in a number of games that then we had to climb out. Against the Hornets it once only worked when CP3 got hurt. Sometimes it went well, sometimes it didn’t (e.g. once against OKC). In the playoffs it didn’t went well when we came back twice but came up short. Being more focused and scoring more from the start even when one of the big three isn’t hot should be a major focus of the coaching staff.
I agree
But we weren’t “terrible”, we were average in the first quarter. Average means you are going to have plenty of bad first quarters. It would be better to be at least “good”, and we won’t be elite until our first quarter performance improves.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Wow.
So… Nate’s #1 offseason target was a backup PG? Um, don’t you know that Ramon Sessions could have come off the bench for less money with a brighter future?
If this is true then McMillan has some problems. No actually scratch that, Kevin Pritchard has some problems. If Miller doesn’t start it will be because he doesn’t fit. If he doesn’t fit then you just gave the second highest salary on the team to a guy who… well, doesn’t fit.
You might as well have signed Ben Freaking Gordon. I mean really, if you’re concerned about Brandon Roy having the ball in his hands all the time then why not just sign a straight up undersized two guard. Miller is too much of a pure point, but Bayless is to much of a shooting guard? So really you just want a small three point shooter? Why not Jason Terry? At least he fits (apparently) what you want from your starting PG. He can bring the ball up the court, pass off to Roy and then stand around waiting for the next jump shot just as easily as Blake can.
All my future posts are going to look something like this:
The ineptitude of the Blazers upper management in finding a true backcourt mate for Roy is simply staggering in it’s sheer absurdity. It is only matched by their ludicrous refusal to bring in a true 3rd string pivot. I strongly suggest the immediate firing of McMillan and propose subsequently replacing him with Larry Van Gundy, the third and lesser known of the Gundy brothers.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 29, 2009 8:18 PM PDT reply actions
wow
just because blake is starting doesnt mean he is going to get the most minutes. blake is just going to play all of his minutes with the starting unit even if its only 10 minutes or so(i assume he will play more because i am not a blake hater) so andre will get the minutes of a “starter” he just wont start. how does that make nate or kp ubsurd,what i see is it meaning they are not so close minded. they think out side the box.
I was just joking about my future posts.
The Blazers management is certainly not absurd.
I still think Miller will start.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 29, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
It matters in the playoffs.
Our backup PG got about 5 mpg in the playoffs last year. Miller got 43 and Blake got 39.
You can play guys more minutes because there are longer rests between games. If there’s some sort of problem with Miller playing in the starting unit then there is going to be a big problem when the post season comes. The starters all get more minutes and the rotation gets smaller. The second unit is suddenly not nearly as important and barely ever exists as a full unit of subs.
In other words, if he doesn’t fit playing with Roy then he doesn’t fit.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 29, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh he'll fit just fine.
Brandon Roy is damn good… I know its not that relevant; but look back to his two all star games when he was in with Chris Paul a great passing point. They were the best tandem on the floor. Not to mention no one besides Brandon had the ability to drive into the lane and get the defense to collapse on them. Wasn’t that a problem we needed to address? I know it was talked about more than once. Regardless of who Brandon teams with I am pretty confident he wont skip a beat. He is that good of a player.
If it matters in the playoffs
why do you care who starts now?
Our backup PG got 5 mpg in the playoffs last year because we weren’t very good at backup PG.
This year, we’ll have a solid backup (I consider Blake the backup even if he starts) who brings a different look and a valuable weapon (the deep threat). I expect there will be situations where he will play important minutes in the playoffs. Maybe his minutes drop from 20 to 15 or even 12.
It still doesn’t matter who starts. What matters is putting high quality lineups on the floor for 48 mpg.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Whatever.
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree.
I’ve never heard of a starting PG who gets 12 minutes a game. I guess I’m just a crazy traditionalist like that, unable to think outside the box and whatnot.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 30, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I know he's not a PG...
But look at Batum’s minutes.
Well, I'm think 18-20
I don’t think there is that huge of a gap between the two players. Andre is better, but not THAT much better.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
?
The difference between the two players is staggering. Honestly it’s like comparing Gerald Wallace to Matt Barnes.
It’s a little tricky because their games are so different, but it’s apparent by most statistical measures (and my eyeballs) that Miller is the better player by a very large gap. You could argue that some of Miller’s talent will be wasted in the Blazers system, and I suppose that would make them a little closer in value. Even so, Miller had the best PER on the entire 76’ers roster last year. He was the second option on offense and according to people I know who follow that team, the MVP of that squad.
I’ll try and reserve judgment until I see how Miller fits, but for now the difference in talent is quite large.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
Precisely
You could argue that some of Miller’s talent will be wasted in the Blazers system, and I suppose that would make them a little closer in value.
You get full value from Blake’s abilities, not from Miller’s, because of fit.
Don’t undervalue Blake. He plays decent team defense, he rarely turns the ball over, etc. The only thing he really does well is shoot the 3 ball, but he does a decent job in just about all aspects of the game. He knows his limitations, and doesn’t try to exceed them. A very good role player. And it isn’t as if Andre is going to be a star on this team.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I said you "could" argue that...
doesn’t mean you should. We won’t know until we see him with the team, but I suspect he’ll be just fine.
Andre Miller has started on every team he’s played for in the past ten years. That’s something like 854 straight starts. There will come a time when someone usurps him of that role, but I’m guessing it’s not going to be Steve Blake.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
That's because the backup was Sergio
You don’t suppose the minutes had more to do with who they were going to than whether or not they came off the bench?
No.
The starting PG on most playoff teams get a vast majority of the minutes in the post season. There’s a longer gap between games so it makes sense to play the best guy without worrying about rest so much. Not only was Miller significantly better than Blake in last years playoffs, but he did it while playing a ton of minutes per game, on a team that runs no less.
Playoff MPG, (in order of PER)
Tony Parker 36.2
Chauncey Billups 38.7
Rajon Rondo 41.2
Deron Williams 42.2
Andre Miller 43.0
Jason Kidd 38.6
Chris Paul 40.2
Aaron Brooks 34.2
Mike Bibby 35.5
Steve Blake 38.5
Derrick Rose 44.7
Mo Williams 38.6
Miller will be playing no less than 38 mpg during next years playoffs. That leaves Blake less than ten minutes a game, unless you want to play him some as a shooting guard for some crazy reason.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
I'll be surprised
If Miller plays 38 mpg. Very surprised.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
RT: If he doesn’t fit then you just gave the second highest salary on the team
The last 2+ years the two players with the highest salaries on the Blazers have been Raef Lafrentz and Darius Miles
Your point, again?
I fully expect Brandon and LMA to each be earning more $ than Miller by this time next year. Not that it matters when it comes to who starts or who" finishes" the games. I also expect Andre to play more minutes than Blake at PG, so…who’s “backing up” who? Was John Havlicek a “back-up” to Don Nelson, back in the day? How about Kevin McHale, did he “back-up” Cornbread Maxwell? There are dozens of examples in NBA history where a better player comes in off the bench and “relieves” the average starter who’s a better fit with the other 4 “starters”. (Kurt Rambis and AC Green made a career of starting and then only playing short minutes every half)
This is rapidly becoming a non-story, and it will “end” only when Nate decides that the team has a better chance of winning with Miller starting at PG instead of Blake. When that will be is anyone’s guess (maybe I should run a poll…hmmm…good idea!) but I don’t think Andre Miller is losing any sleep over it.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Are they on the team?
As far as I know Darius Miles doesn’t play for the Blazers.
This is rapidly becoming a non-story
Weird that you would make a whole post about it then.
For the record I fully expect Miler to start. It is disconcerting though that McMillan keeps reiterating the same point about Miller possibly coming off the bench. It would be much better if he just said the whole thing would be decided in training camp, which I’m sure it will be.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 29, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
RT: Weird that you would make a whole post about it then.
I like have fun with it, since I have no dog in the fight
and honestly, what else do we-all have to argue about for the next couple of months?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Why is that disconcerting?
At this point, he intends to start Blake, and Miller came here knowing that. They are in concert, it is only you disconcerted.
Besides, I did a whole fanpost suggesting this possibility, so Nate is just following what I said. That has to be good, at least for my ego. What could be more important?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
It is disconcerting because something has to be ...
… for the Chicken Littles to maintain their desired level of high anxiety.
hakkaa päälle !
Personal attack!
How dare you call me chicken little. I demand an apology.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 30, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Will it still be good for your ego
if the Blazers underachieve due to an inferior starting point guard? Just because McMillan appears to agree with you doesn’t make it the best move for the team
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 31, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course!
Ego usually cares little for facts.
My guess is it is going to make very little difference, in the long run. The key is how many minutes each plays, and I doubt that the first six minutes will have much impact on that question.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Nate is jumping to conclusions
He isn’t even going to see Roy play with Miller before he makes this decision? Is he just being stubborn. At first I thought he was just being respectful to Blake but he really seems serious about this. Here are a few of my thoughts on the issue.
1. If Blake is going to get less minutes than Miller and Roy plays 35-40 minutes a game then he will be playing at least half of the time with Miller anyway so why not start him.
2. I keep hearing that Blake compliments Roys game. I see it the other way around. Roy takes half the pg duties from Blake so he looks like a more talented player.
3. I remember analysts during the playoffs were saying that the Blazers were more effective at home partially because they pushed the ball more (obviously home court had something to do with it as well). Miller is better at pushing the ball and I think that would be helpful in getting the Blazers off to a good start in the first quarter.
I don’t think McMillan needs to be fired. I just think he needs to wait before he makes such definite decisions. I think in the end he will have to go back on this, if he doesn’t he might cost the Blazers a few games this year.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 31, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps there's another factor here
Remember, Andre sat down with them and told them exactly how he thought he could help this team. Perhaps most of those comments had to do with the second unit, and they discussed right from the beginning that he needs to be on the court whenever Brandon isn’t on the court. Perhaps that was Andre’s own comment.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
if that's the case
then you have a point. I haven’t heard any of Millers comments reflect that but it is possible.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Aug 1, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Pure speculation on my part as to what he said
but we were told Andre was very specific about how he thought he could help. It wasn’t general, it was how he could make individual players better.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Andre may have thought he was talking about helping out "the starters"
like Greg and Batum
but Nate might have been thinking of those guys as bench players, without Miller being aware of it
this is all going to be “sorted out” in training camp and during the pre-season. The players will decide who the “best” combinations are, and “who” should start and/or play the most minutes. Nate will just confirm the results of this “competition” when the regular season arrives, when it’s time for the coaching staff to setup the rotations that “give the team their best chance of winning”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't know about Andre's comments, but I agree with
the idea of Andre being on the court when Roy isn’t. That’s what many here in their Blake-hatred don’t seem to grasp. AM may have been brought in to be a back-up for Roy, not Blake. Not at shooting guard of course, but in terms of being the team leader / reliable scorer / facilitator, when Roy is sitting. That is a very different role, than just being the point guard, starter or otherwise. Look at it this way, AM is in some way replacing Outlaw as the third team scorer, because AM is more consistent and smarter. He also creates for other players. He can be used with the starters, but is ideal to play with Rudy, who will be in when Roy is out. We will see Roy and Miller on the court together plenty as well, but their skills overlap and AM is no spring chicken despite avoiding injury for so long.
We may see all kinds of line-ups with this group in the regular season. We have four quality guards, two who are great dribble penetrators, and two who are great shooters. Do you really put both penetrators, or both shooters in together very often? Well, it depends on who you are playing against, but for the most part, you balance your offense by mixing the two. Look at it this way, Roy and Miller are a rotation, and Blake and Rudy are a rotation. If you can now sleep at night knowing Blake will start over Rudy, because he is a better ball handler, and better able to guard opposing point guards, there you go. What we have now is depth, and reliable scoring on the court at all times during games. How many times last year did the first unit get a rest, and the team fell behind while the second unit failed hold up their end? That has become very unlikely now, so the need for fourth quarter come backs, or losing close games, is significantly reduced, as the other team’s second unit falls behind against ours, giving us a lead, or they have to leave their starters in against our second unit, making them tired for the fourth, when we run away with it.
With a second unit that good, we could run it in the playoffs. I hate to always be bringing up the Lakers around here, but once again they are the champs, and the way they opperate flies in the face of what a lot of people are saying on BE. The Lakers rest Kobe for long stretches, and went pretty deep into their bench in the playoffs. The reason they could, is because they have depth. The reason we couldn’t, is because Blake was our only good PG. Sergio and Bayless were liabilities. Frye was a liability. The guys who could come off the bench were Oden, Rudy and Outlaw(I know, but he was 3rd leading scorer for our team last year), and they did. If you have Blake, or Miller, they join that list of guys who you can bring off the bench in the playoffs, and not worry. You add one more guy, like Batum/Webster, and you have a full second unit, but most of all, we know in any case, we have a back-up C, SF, SG, and PG who can absolutely play in the playoffs, and will. In what combinations we don’t yet know. Also, if it helps you sleep better at night, we can call Blake the PG, who will play with Roy a lot, rather than the starter. We can even call him the “three point shooter who doesn’t turn the ball over much” that will play with Roy a lot, rather than the “point guard”.
in response to the poll
i think it just depends on how it goes… if there are problems with scoring early in games they might have him start, but i have a feeling that having dre come of the bench is going to very effective.
I agree, so you are very sensible
and we have the same last name
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 29, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
jpaulson's last name is Playboy?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 30, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
no, it's Honka
he’s asian
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Let me repost a slightly revised take on how I figure playing time will be handed out to start the season.
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
6 MINUTES
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Nicolas Batum
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Steve Blake
2 MINUTES
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Nicolas Batum
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Andre Miller
4 MINUTES
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Martell Webster
SG: Rudy Fernandez
PG: Andre Miller
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
4 MINUTES
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: Dante Cunningham or Jeff Pendergraph
SF: Martell Webster
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Steve Blake
8 MINUTES
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Rudy Fernandez
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Andre Miller
Under this scenario, Greg Oden and Andre Miller play 28 minutes per game — while on the court together — and, in spite of not being starters, are on the floor to finish each contest. All things considered, that’s the best way to utilize their respective skill sets.
Joel Przybilla and Steve Blake fit well on the court with each other — particularly with Brandon Roy out there, too, since he can run the offense — while Oden and Miller do their thing at a separate time with the pick-and-roll game. Przybilla’s intense man-to-man interior defense somewhat makes up for Roy’s porous perimeter defense, while Blake’s efficient spot-up shooting from beyond the arc allows #7 a guy to kick it out to in failed dribble-drive situations.
Of course, Oden and Miller would have to defer to Roy for a portion of each game — especially during the last 8 or so minutes in both halves — however, with Rudy Fernandez also on the court at the same time to stretch the floor, there’d be little worry about opponents clogging the lane in an attempt to shut down Roy’s iso game or Oden/Miller’s screen-and-roll/pick-and-roll game.
For what it’s worth, I assume Travis Outlaw will be dealt before the season; that’s because a healthy Martell Webster and semi-effective Dante Cunningham or Jeff Pendergraph would render him useless in Portland.
Frankly, a trade of Outlaw to the New Jersey Nets — which possesses a sizeable trade exception it acquired from the Vince Carter trade — for a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Dallas Mavericks) is a fair and balanced deal for both ballclubs. Outlaw gets a chance to start and play extensive minutes for a rebuilding team during his contract year, while the Trail Blazers receive a future asset for a superfluous player.
As a pick-and-pop power forward who plays fiery weakside help defense, Cunningham seems like a better fit than Pendergraph — who’s known instead for his efficient low-post scoring and rugged one-on-one low-post defense against smaller interior players — playing behind LaMarcus Aldridge. Yet, either guy may get the gig if/when Outlaw is finally dealt elsewhere.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
RT: Travis Outlaw will be dealt before the season
Coach Demo was on Talkin’ Ball tonight and said that “every team has called us about Travis” and that Outlaw’s trade value was not affected by his poor playoff showing. Dean also said that the coaching staff “trusts” Trout because he’s made a lot of big shots, etc
So, I think you’re going to have to squeeze #25 into your playing rotation, at least for the first half of the season and he’ll eat up those back-up PF minutes. Jon Givony mentioned a deal where Memphis would have surrender a draft choice for Outlaw if Utah had failed to match on Millsap, but I question how much value another 1st round pick really has for KP in the coming years. You could see him trying to “wiggle out” of paying this year’s 22nd pick by selecting Claver and stashing him overseas. This young team is pretty well stocked with talent, and it’s going to be tough for the new kids (Bayless, Pend and Dante) to crack the rotation as it is without thinking about adding even more rookies, later.
But Portland does still have a need for the 09/10 season and that’s one more veteran big man who can play backup PF and emergency center. They don’t need him right away, so there’s still 4-5 months left to see how Martell’s doing and find out how the rotation minutes will be divvied up before making that one last deal to prepare the roster for the playoffs. That’s where this league-wide interest in Outlaw that Demo was talking about should come in real handy. For as much as we Bedgers like to pick on Travis and complain about his lack of BBIQ and inability to defend, box out and rebound, he still can do some things offensively that other teams will be looking for in the near-future that the Blazers shouldn’t need “as much” from him, anymore. So that’s what I’m expecting, an “Outlaw for Turiaf” deal, or maybe “Travis+capspace” for Jeff Foster. Something that consolidates the SF position and provides the banger who can help the team toughen-up following the trading deadline, in anticipation of a lonnng playoff run next May
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
A lottery pick in 2011 or 2012
could be very valuable.
You have to keep the inexpensive role players coming in, and future draft picks are a great way to get them. A lottery pick has a chance to develop into even more than that. You never know when one of your stars will go down (ask Houston), so having a potential star on your bench in his second year, just dying for a chance, is never a bad idea. If he pans out, you’ve either got another star, or a valuable trade asset. If not, you might have a role player, or maybe just a flop, but he hasn’t cost you much.
Future draft picks are also valued trade assets. They can be very good things to have.
Keep a few young players cycling through in the 9-15 roster spots. If one of them jumps up into your top 5-6 players, that’s just a bonus.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Travis Outlaw won't likely net a lottery pick, but rather a run-of-the-mill first-round draft pick.
A simple trade of Travis Outlaw to the New Jersey Nets — which have a sizeable trade exception due to the Vince Carter deal from earlier this summer — for a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Dallas Mavericks) would be a fair transaction for both teams.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
Possibly
I was just responding to the comment questioning how much value another first round pick would have for KP in coming years. I think the value would be very high.
I think Travis is worth more than a #22 pick (the Dallas pick), personally. Combine his ability to get his own shot, his ability to concentrate and hit game winners in the clutch, his cheap contract, and the fact that it is expiring. Lots of reasons someone might want him, so we should be able to get more than that for him. Want a cheap player who can still produce? We have Travis. An expiring contract? We have that. An offensive boost? We have that, too. If we are looking to move Travis (I’m not sure we are), I think there will be enough people interested that we can get more than a #22 pick for him.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
at this point
with every coach telling whoever will listen that the Blazers are not going to make any more moves, it is clear to me that the Blazers have no confidence in Web’s ability to come back 100% in training camp. The guy is not running yet even, which to me says they will keep Outlaw at least until close to the trade deadline or all season if Web can’t come back sooner.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
you are crazy if you think...
… Oden isn’t going to be the starting center. He may not be that much better than Pryz, but we have to give it to the guy as a vote of confidence.
-bb
Wait, where did you go?
Oh, couldn’t see you for all that backpeddeling re: Donte Cunningham.
I agree though that Cunningham is more likely to play backup 4 than Pendergraph is.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 30, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
OK here's my prediction that Blake could still start, while Miller gets more minutes,
which was originally posted just hours after the Miller announcement on July 24.
Miller/Rudy is a much better backcourt than Blake/Rudy while Roy rests,
Miller will get Rudy more open 3-pt shots than Blake, and he will run the fast break with Rudy while Brandon is out. Rudy provides the 3-pt threat while Miller is in. Roy isn’t going to run the break much, he creates his own shots, and Blake provides a 3-pt threat when playing with Roy.
So I can see Blake starting 1st and 3rd quarters with Roy for about 6 minutes, but Miller getting more total minutes than Blake (maybe 24-18, with Roy getting 6 minutes at PG). Sort of like Batum starting last year, but then only playing about 18 minutes. Match-ups probably determine whether Miller or Blake finishes games with Roy, Rudy, LMA, and Oden (or Joel depending on GO fouls).
Rudy got about 26 minutes last year and probably figures to get 28 minutes this year. If Brandon rests 12 minutes, and plays 6 minutes at PG and 10 minutes at SF, it works out pretty well for target minutes with a 10-man rotation.
PG – Blake(18), Miller(24), Roy(6)
SG – Roy(20), Rudy(28)
SF – Batum/Martell(38), Roy(10)
PF – LMA (36), Backup PF (12)
C – Oden/Joel (48)
LMA 36
Roy 36
Rudy 28
Miller 24
Blake 18
Batum/Martell 38
Oden/Joel 48
Back up PF 12
You will note there is no Outlaw in my rotation because I believe he will be traded as soon as the season starts (and we get the Euro cap space back) for a back up PF. It’s time for Outlaw to move on to a team that values scoring more than passing, rebounding, and defense.
The unknown to me is whether GO will start. Nate talked about the success of last years starting 5 as reason to start Blake, but he also talks about the key to this years improvement is Oden. So it seems like he may want to start Oden. But Miller would be stronger with Oden to run the pick and roll. They would still get time together, but not as much if one starts and the other doesn’t.
Anyway, I don’t put too much faith into what Nate says about the starting lineup in July. Last year, Nate wasn’t even sure of his starting lineup going into the first game. Nic didn’t start, but then went on to start 76 of the 79 games he played last year. In fact, Nate said today that the starting lineup might not really be settled until after the season begins, and I think that is most likely true.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 29, 2009 10:52 PM PDT reply actions
I think Joel & Steve starting
…and Greg & Miller coming off the bench works better. If you look at who (most likely) will be in the first and second units, the first unit is much more a half-court inside/outside team while the second unit looks to be much more run & gun. IMHO, the roster will look like this:
First Unit
PG – Blake
SG – Roy
SF – Batum
PF – Aldridge
C – Przybilla
Second Unit
PG – Miller
SG – Fernandez
SF – Webster
PF – Outlaw*
C – Oden
*Note: if Trout gets traded, then we either use one or both of the rookies or if we trade for a banger, the new guy.
Not sure where that leaves Bayless. Maybe scrabbling for microwave / sparkplug minutes or perhaps bundled with Trout in a trade.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
My units exactly
for many reasons these units will play better together. Plus give different looks while providing both offense and defense. I would concentrate on getting out of the first half/quarter with big leads and get garbage min. to the up and comers, P.S. Bayless could be used for those speedy PG’s which both Blake and Miller have trouble with, either B Roy or Rudy could handle the ball a little more on offense when that happens untill he get more under control, also alows him to concentrate on him driving to the basket against those PG’s to get.
odem
i think he has to start.. im one of the few i guess who was encouraged by his mini camp performance. he is an elite defender and rebounder. even if he starts without miller starting i guarantee that they will still play some minutes together. im pretty confident that oden will still get his his oops from miller, and i cant wait to see them.
Joel is still better (now) than Greg
Joel is automatic on defense – no thought process necessary. While Greg is vastly improved over last year, I still saw some hesitation from him that indicates that he’s having to think to much about how to react rather than just reacting instinctively. However, I think this will be the year that Greg throws of the shackles of indecision and becomes the beast we all hope for.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh.
That should read “too much” not “to much” – stupid keyboard (and idiot using the keyboard).
by DonkeyShins on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Not enough offense in your first unit
Start Greg. Otherwise, you are going 4 on 5 (Joel is not an offensive threat), and two are Blake and Batum, who aren’t major threats except to hit the 3.
With Miller, Joel may get the occasional oop and pick and roll, but against second units going four on five isn’t so bad, with Miller penetrating, and Fernandez, Webster, and Travis all threats to hit a 3 or cut back door for an oop.
Greg will get his minutes with Miller, especially in the fourth.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
you're assuming Batum is the starter at SF
depends how Webster does during training camp and the pre-season, and if Nate wants more outside shooting (besides Blake…again, assuming Steve starts at PG)) to match up with Roy from the beginning of the games
For some players (especially older vets, or those coming off of injuries…) it’s better that they warm up then start the game, rather than sit on the bench for 6-10 minutes and then come in the game “cold”
It remains to be seen if Martell will play better as a starter or a reserve, but remember he was preparing to start last year before he broke his foot
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You're right
I see them as somewhat interchangeable, though Martell’s better shooting (if he is fully back) probably gives him an edge to start.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think that sometime during training camp, Miller will pass Blake up.
Nate may decide he’s a better fit for the 2nd unit, but he seems to like Miller so much that he’ll start, and that’s fine with me really.
RT: Nate wasn’t even sure of his starting lineup going into the first game.
This was due to Martell’s foot injury during preseason, as you know. If Nate had been asked about his starting lineup last July, he probably would’ve been leaning towards Webster being his starting SF and said nothing re: Batum in that role
Nate said today that the starting lineup might not really be settled until after the season begins
That must’ve been an interview I haven’t heard, yet. McMillian sounded pretty sure about keeping his starting 5 intact from last year when he was talking to Suke.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, but Nate is a good politician and leaves himself plenty of outs.
“How much of your rotation is already set in your mind and how much will be determined during training camp?”
“You have a vision of what you want to do, but a lot will be determined not only in training camp but during the course of the season. You really can’t predict the future. Last year the starting lineup that we had at the end of the year I probably wouldn’t have thought that would have been the line up that we would have finished with, with Joel being at center position and Nicholas being at small forward position.”
I’m guessing Oden will start at the beginning of the season instead of Joel. Webster? Who knows?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 30, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to admit
I really have no idea.
I like Miller off the bench, but it seems likely at some point that he will become the starter by sheer virtue of the fact that he’s the best PG we have.
Then again I never underestimate the ability of Nate MacMillan to hold his position, whether right, wrong, or extremely, very, wrong.
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
RT: I never underestimate the ability of Nate MacMillan to hold his position
That was almost my title for this post “Nate’s digging in his heels re: Blake starting at the PG position!”
Once Sarge gets an idea in his head, it takes a lot of evidence to convince him it’s not working. (The kind of evidence that only shows up when watching game film, I suspect.) But in fairness McMillian has said that the players will make up his mind for him who should play by their performances once camp starts. Coach Dean said tonight that he expects some tough competition between Miller, Blake and Bayless in veteran camp at the PG position
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It feels pretty wide open.
I could see Bayless making a pretty big leap in training camp. I could see the Miller experiment turning into a disaster. I could see Blake getting traded.
Anything really. Should be interesting.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 30, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Let's be fair
Blake did a pretty damn good job with the starting position last year to the tune of 54 wins.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, but
were you satisfied with Steve’s playoff performance? I know I wasn’t.
That’s why I was glad to hear that Miller was “plan C”
Blake will make a great “backup” PG (even if he starts…)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
just thought you should know
blake actually did pretty descent in the playoffs… for instance he was the 3rd leading scorer averaging 9.8 points per game. he averaged 6.2 assists, 4 rebounds, 41 percent 3 pt. and 49 percent fg.. thats pretty good offensively!! he couldnt defend brooks but thats no surprise hes like the flash!! lol
he made poor decisions
played bad defense and didn’t draw any fouls. 3 things which are critical for playoff success. he’s a nice back up point guard he’s a subpar starter.
no doubt
but in game 6 against the Rockets the Blazers needed leadership from the PG position and Steve had about 4 unforced turnovers…that’s when I came to the conclusion that the Blazers needed an upgrade at the PG position if they were going to reach the “next level” Here’s hoping that Miller is the right “fit” to help the kids take the next step
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Game 6 was decided when Nate started Rudy instead of Batum
Artest lit us up, because Rudy couldn’t defend him. Blake who rarely turns the ball over made a couple bad plays, and had 4 TOs for the entire game, a couple coming when the game was pretty much already over, we lost by 14 points. In fact, lets go over how many turn overs Blake had in the series game by game, because too many people are out of touch with reality:
Blakes Playoffs Turnovers
GAME 1 – 0 TOs
GAME 2 – 1 TO
GAME 3 – 2 TOs
GAME 4 – 1 TO
GAME 5 – 1 TO
GAME 6 – 4 TOs
So in six PLAYOFF games, he had 9 turnovers total, including ZERO in game 1, and only 1 in three other games. That is a 1.5 TO per game average for the playoffs. Oh yeah, he really blew it, that guy sucks. Our losses couldn’t have anything to do with any other factors, except the much more REAL ones I will list below.
Game 1 was lost because we didn’t front Yao Ming. He shot 9 for 9 to start the game!!!! At that point it was over. That allowed Brooks to go off shooting threes, because Blake had to give weak side help trying to knock the ball out of Yao’s hands before he went up with it. Brooks is quick and can really shoot, but notice Game 2 on, Blake kept him under control, because Joel fronted Yao, and Blake didn’t have to stray from Brooks as much. In Game 2 Brooks padded his stats with a couple late threes when it was over, but he didn’t hurt us, and we won.
Game 3 we lost because LMA was told to double Yao and let Scola have his outside shot. Scola hit practically every one of those outside shots, and made us pay for foolishly not defending him. He is too good to not defend. Bad strategy. BTW Blake had 16points and 10 assists in that game. WOW, that guy really choked. Too bad we lost that game because Steve Blake can’t handle the playoffs.
Game 4 we should have won, but just came up short by one point, due to frankly, the officials, who would not call a foul for Roy no matter how he was clobbered, but would call a foul any time Yao even looked at the basketball. That was the game after Adelman worked the officials through the local papers. He got his money’s worth. BTW Blake scored 11points and 8 assists in that loss, but again, it’s too bad he couldn’t handle the pressure of the playoffs, and cost us that loss.
Game 5 we won, we were on track and shouldn’t have changed a thing, but Nate started Rudy in game 6 because that line-up was working at the end of game 5. Blake 15points, only 3 assists, but 7 rebounds. But the myth of Blake single handedly giving the series to the Rockets continues.
Yes, Blake had a bad game 6 just like the rest of the team. Let me give you a clue as to why, Rudy started, played 41mins, and scored 2points, and 1 assist 3 TOs. Blake had 2points and 5 assists 4TOs in 40min. Roy also had 3 TOs in 41mins, though he did score 22. Starting a small line up and sticking with it too long got us killed and tired out. Batum played less than 3mins. Artest and Battier had a field day defending a small line-up. Artest led Houston with 27points.
The facts just don’t back up what you say about Blake, and in fact, Sergio and Bayless had a lot more to do with us needing another PG than anything Blake did. He played well in the playoffs, and averaged more assists, and less TOs than Miller for the playoffs, and Miller had 5 TOs in game 5 against Orlando, and 4 TOs in games 2 and 3. I hope that gives you and every one on BE some perspective.
I Agree...
There has been alot of accusations made that Steve cost us the series with Houston when to me… and apparently to you also… this is totally untrue.
You did a great job above of outlining the reasons why the Blake Blame is wrong and I appreciate the perspective.
No matter who starts or how many minutes Blake or Miller get we’ve drastically upgraded our PG position because we effectively traded Sergio for Miller… That’s a huge gain no matter how ya slice it.
Check the numbers
Blake .626% Miller .586% Blake is marginally more winner
I think it is fairly obvious...
that we will rope a dope teams throwing well timed jabs (Blake/Roy/Batum)
then out come the power punches once they are slightly worn (Miller/Rudy/Roy)
and then a second wind comes and the whooping continues (Miller/Rudy/Webster)
Yes use the depth
8 min.’s then new legs and looks start hard finish as needed hopefully with emting the bench
I don't really know why Nate is doing this, but I don't believe him at all
And it’s totally unnecessary. You just got an upgrade at PG. Start him. Blake will understand. AND BLAKE REMAINS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AND VALUABLE.
Nate, stop the madness.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 30, 2009 7:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Per my above point
Blake is a better fit with the first unit, assuming Przybilla and Batum start (and I have yet to see a convincing argument that they won’t). Now, if Nate mixes everything up and starts Webster and Oden, then perhaps Miller will (and probably should) start. But then you have a running team with a SG who works best at inside/outside and half-court games and a half-court team with an SG who likes to run.
I’m glad I’m not in Nate’s shoes right now.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
enough with the 1st unit stuff
when it matters ( playoffs ) no one uses a ‘2nd unit’ or a ‘white team’. they play their best players. you can’t not play andre miller with your best players all year and then have to change line ups when it’s playoff time.
Don't worry
No matter who starts, he’ll get plenty of time with the starters. They’ll know how to play together.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
By now I should be used to it.
The number of people who remain convinced that their understanding of the game of basketball and their ability to evaluate players is superior to that of Pritchard and McMillan.
Of course if this were actually true, then those same people would know that no coach, in any sport, automatically hands a new player a starting spot over the incumbent.
When does Miller take over as starter? When he demonstrates that the team is better with him running it. That could happen during preseason or it could not happen at all. What will be interesting is listening to what all the folks who trash Steve Blake as only being good enough to be a backup will say if Miller doesn’t end up as the starter.
My money says that they will start bashing Nate for not being smart enough to know who the better player is.
hakkaa päälle !
What will be interesting is listening to what all the folks who trash Steve Blake as only being good enough to be a backup will say if Miller doesn’t end up as the starter.
I will say that Blake is still the worst starting PG in the West and it sucks that Miller is such a bad fit.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
And you will also say
that at least Miller is a great fit with the bench, and that makes us a lot stronger than when Sergio and Jerryd were competing for the “He’s Struggling” trophy last year.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think it's pretty basic that you play your best player over your second-best
Maybe there are highly specialized situations where you don’t, but I don’t think this is one of them. I think we as Blazer fans overthink Brandon Roy and constantly scramble all over ourselves to analyze every situation that could possibly affect him instead of just putting our best players out on the floor and playing basketball. We have more talent than most other teams, why are WE adjusting to THEM??
I’m not a better coach than Nate, but either are pundits or millions of other Blazer fans. But I don’t think it’s outside our rights to observe and opinionate. That’s all we are doing here.
I don’t understand bringing in an overall superior PG and not starting him. Especially when Miller has started most of his career. The ONLY argument I’ve heard are a.) how does so and so affect the oh-so-fragile Brandon Roy and that Blake is some ungodly 3 pt shooter (didn’t we say that about James Jones too?) Blake is above average at shooting 3’s but he’s unlikely to have another career season like he did last year. Maybe this traces back to a running fued I have with most blazer fans about the value of easy inside buckets vs. jumpers and shooting 3’s. I value Miller’s attributes FAR more than Blake’s so it’s my opinion he should start and anything else is madness.
I’m the devil, aren’t I?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 30, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Training camp
Yes Blake has a hard time with Miller, so what! We have 3 different look PG’s on this team. Team is the concept. By the way Blake is ranked with a .626% win ratio per min. played Miller .586% both good.
I want to reiterate a point
courtesy of poster’s comments earlier – here is the quarter-by-quarter results this regular season.
Our overall winning percentage is 65.9%, 6th in the league.
but our 1st quarter winning pct is 50%, 17th in the league
Our overall net points is +5.3, 5th in the league.
but our 1st Q net point is +0.4, 14th in the league.
This prove the common impression that we tend to fall behind early very often. Yes we came back and won a lot of those games but that’s definitely not the winner’s pattern.
One of the major reason for that is Roy tends to pace himself early and defers to LMA a lot. But LMA is not a consistent offensive threat yet, plus the rest of starter – Oden/Przybilla, Batum & Blake are only complementary materials in the offensive ends (at least for now). So that usually leaves the starting 5 becoming an offensively-challenged unit.
Starting Miller could solve this or at least improve this situation as he’s much better in creating easy basket for himself and teammates. Roy can still take it easy in the 1st quarter without risking the team’s performance.
If Greg isn't a better offensive player this year
you could well be correct.
If he becomes a consistent offensive threat (it won’t take much to do that with his size and athleticism), then this becomes less of an issue. Give us consistently 5-6 points in the first quarter out of our center position and other things become easier, and we transform from an average to good first quarter team, even without starting Andre. If that happens and Andre transforms our second unit like I think he will, we are going to have a lot of games that are done and dusted by half time.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Hopefully, Roy can play harder, in fewer minutes
Last year, Nate had BRoy or LA on the court at all times. This year, I suspect BRoy or Dre will be on the floor at all times. My hope is that BRoy might pick up the intensity a bit at the start of the game, and be able to do so because he is more rested, and playing fewer minutes…
Given Nate’s comments in the press conference about wanting “more easy transition baskets”, his comments about Steve “being the starting PG”, and even starting Pryz late last year, I believe we will three very, very different sets of players on the floor:
Slow, deliberate offense: Blake, Roy, Webster if healthy, if not, Travis, LA, Pryz
Fast breakers: Andre, Roy, Batum, LA, Oden… (yeah, I know LA is there twice… I expect him to lead the team in minutes this year)
Blowout mop-up crew: Bayless, Rudy, Travis, Cunningham, Prendergraph
Now its fine with me if we start slow, because most players take a bit of time to get into the groove, but I really hope and expect the Blazers to have a unit that is in the top 10 in pace. And it won’t be with Brandon on the court, his unit will still be snail-like… Overall, we should be in the top 20 in pace next year..
RT: My hope is that BRoy might pick up the intensity a bit at the start of the game
I think he’ll try to get LMA involved early in the game, but you’re right…Brandon should look for his “own” more in the 1st quarter and I think he’ll learn to rely on Miller subbing in for Blake and help to get the other players into a good rhythm
The interaction between Andre, Roy and Oden is going to be most important thing to watch, as training camp unfolds. If these three can get on the same page (along with Rudy and LMA) that lineup will be awesome. They may not all start, but whenever they’re on the court together it could be magic
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Myth: Blake Can't Run the Break
He did it at Maryland. He did it in Denver. And he’s done it with the Blazers, at times. Nate prefers half court sets. If Steve were given his choice, I’ll bet he’d PREFER to run, In fact probably his best game last seaon was when the Blazers ran the Clippers out of gym, and Blake had 17 dimes. People get hung up on his not being a finisher. It’s a fair criticism, but he IS a facilitator. And if the end result is two points, who cares?
I think this is right
He’s not as effective on the break as Andre, because he isn’t a threat to take it all the way. And he’s shifted his game away from running. But if Andre runs and it is effective (and it will be), I suspect Steve is going to be saying, “I’ll have some of that, too.” I think if Andre runs, it gets the team in a running mindset, and then Steve will run.
Steve can’t change a team like that, because he isn’t a finisher, so if he runs but guys don’t fill the lanes, there is no fastbreak, and he has to pull up. Andre’s ability to finish means he can change the mindset — there goes Andre, let’s roll.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
right
Steve’s version of the fast break is to look up and see if he has a safe angle to lob a kick-ahead pass (usually to LMA) If that “look” isn’t there, he pulls it back out
So there’s not much encouragement for the wings to run hard (and “touch the sidelines”) in hopes of scoring a easy dunk/lay-up when Blake gets the outlet pass
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, but if the pattern is established
when Andre is in, that might happen a lot more — and Steve might make those passes if Andre has been.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Exactly.
I’ve been hoping LMA, and Batum would be coached into running, so Blake could run, but Andre might be able to force that development for the reasons you state, and if they get into that habit, Blake can take advantage as well. As Stajack said, Blake led a running team at Maryland to a NCAA championship. He had wings who loved to get out in transition, and go for ally opps. He hasn’t had that with the Blazers so far, because LMA has been a spot up shooter, and so is Outlaw. By going all the way to the basket, Andre can get those guys to follow, hopefully.
Prediction: Oden is Going to Be Better
If Greg gets through the summer and training camp without injury, there will probably be a marked improvement in hiss game this season. Of course, the Blake haters will ignore these factors and give most (if not all) the credit to Andre.
I predict some sick...
… highlights on the Dre–Rudy connection. Both very smart, creative players.
Blake just didn’t seem to look for Rudy when they were in together. Too busy sucking up to BRoy? Maybe. Only guy who really looked for Rudy (who always moves without the ball) was Sergio.
So, I’d be fine with Dre coming off the bench. Our second unit (excuse me, white unit) will run away from everyone else.
Nate really should stay away from the microphone.
The players will dictate how we play…
Nate. You gotta be kidding me. You ran the most controlled offense in the NBA last year. Put simply, our offense was defensive. And it worked. To your credit. But now you’re saying the opposite happened?
And the business with Andre is just goofy. Shut up about that! Even if you have ideas, as you must, about how Miller is going to work in training camp, why prejudge the outcome? And then, why do that publicly?
I believe Nate Mcmillen is a serious man. And a good coach. But when he opens his mouth in front of a microphone, it sure doesn’t seem that way.
Nate's a good coach
But he puts me to sleep.
Maybe he’ll loosen up when Andre becomes a coach on the court.
He is probably saying nothing more
than what he and Andre discussed before he was ever signed. So what’s the harm?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
not really a big deal one way or the other
is it jscot? whatever drama and politics go on with the blazers mgmt. is well beyond my ken. But Nate’s words show me that he has a very different perspective on our default strategy than I have. It seems that from his perspective our limited offensive range has been about personnel, not his own conservative nature. Whereas my impression has been that poor adaptability and aversion to risk taking is his biggest limitation.
If he is in fact adaptable to the strengths of his players, I consider that very good news.
In general, I have observed a human tendency to polemicize in the areas where they are weakest. Guess I was wondering if this was such a case.
Hard to say, isn't it?
I have wished he ran a little more free offense many times, but I have also wondered if this was part of the long term plan. If young players get away with being sloppy when they are young, they will stay sloppy. It’s a lot easier to loosen the reins once they learn disciplined play than to tighten them.
If you want a team that can effectively grind it out in the half court in the playoffs (and you need that to win a championship), you don’t start by having young players run, run, run, or you’ll never get them to run that disciplined offense.
But I wish the disciplined offense had more variation and creativity, as well. We’ll see what happens. Whatever Nate does, this team will win a lot of games this year.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
good point about the rein-loosening.
And this is why i like the Miller acquisition. Because he may be able to open things up in a way that Nate is comfortable with. If not, Nate will at least have to deal with a team minded playmaker who he can’t just yank every time he turns the ball over or misses a shot.
And I tend to agree with you. This could be a very good team next year. GO at USA camp was big news.
I just hope
that we don’t settle for “very good” which comes because of talent, and we find an offensive and defensive scheme that is also very good. I don’t see that we’ve done that yet. Adequate, yes, but rarely excellent.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
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