Dwight Jaynes rounds up some Oden quotes

"What I got was pretty predictable. Everybody thinks he’s improved and that he’s moving "better" — not to say he’s moving great, but better. But I will say this, nobody — and I mean NOBODY — is seeing him as anything close to a major contributor on offense."

Follow the link to see the quotes from Dwight's sources.

over 2 years ago jksnake99 24 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

my beef with these "final" words about Oden...

The guy has only played one year after having a whole year off. During the on year, he very rarely had plays run for him. As far as I could gather from all the Mini-Camp tidbits I’ve been searching out, he had very few plays run for him there as well.

How is a guy supposed to look like a dominant offensive force if he gets 3-5 plays run for him in a 25 minute stretch?

If the team is serious about him ever being the offensive threat we all hope and want him to be, they better literally force themselves to give him 10-12 plays (minimum) per game. If he still doesn’t pan out, so be it. But this notion that he can’t score is unsettling to me when he isn’t fed down low.

But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 28, 2009 10:05 AM PDT reply actions

They probably notice in practice he isn't good on offense

He gets hundreds of looks there. Why risk wasting valuable possessions when we are trying to earn home court in a competitive West? If Oden doesn’t show it in practice, don’t force it to him in games.

by GMan83201 on Jul 28, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Yea

Why waste a valuable possession giving the ball to Oden 5 feet from the basket when we can give Outlaw the ball for a 50 foot jumper with 15 seconds remaining on the clock.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 28, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions

Andre Miller will make things different

But Greg does a great job at the things we need him to do—rebound, block shots, clog the lane. We dont need Greg to be an offensive force. If he is, all the more better, but Greg is here for defense.

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 28, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions

What I want to SHOUT from the roof tops

is for “experts” to stop asking Oden to be a Shaq-like offensive player. He was never going to be that, EVER! Why can’t these professional basketball men and women get past the PPG stat in the box score. Oden grabbed 10 boards, and added a block in about 24 mins, that is 20 reb/48, which is an amazing rate! They all seem to say he is already an elite rebounder, and a physical force on the defensive end in the paint, why can’t that be enough for people to say he is a good player? Coming out of college, on draft night that is what was expected of him, he was compared to Bill Russell, because he could be a great defender/shot blocker and rebounder, but wasn’t going to score alot of points. Now all of the sudden because he doesn’t score a ton he is a bust!

Blah…I just threw up all over my keyboard, these guys make me sick.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jul 28, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

when you draft a guy number 1 overall, you expect him to be a 2 way force.

Not a Shaq necessarily, but a major contributor on ofense.

by jksnake99 on Jul 28, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions

offense

by jksnake99 on Jul 28, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions

I disagree

every GM, and expert polled at the time of the draft said he would be more like a bill russell then a shaq. he was drafted #1 because he could be a dominating defensive force, it had nothing to do with his offense.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jul 28, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions

and i've watched, within the last few months, some vintage celtic games

to refresh my memory a little. bill russell in the games i watched might score 6pts and grab 18rebs. nobody kept track of blocked shots in those days.

in the championship year when he was at his best with with the trailblazers, bill walton might score 18 now and then, but he never had any intention of scoring 30. he rebounded, blocked shots, and was most noticeably an excellent passer at low or high post. he helped other people score. maurice lucas and lionel hollins (and walton) were ust about the only players who cared to shoot if not wide-open.

oden has a long way to go but right now we have no idea what he may do. i think most all speculation is unfounded until the team gets together with nate and does some serious work in the gym.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jul 29, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Kevin Durant is only a 1 way force

no defense, no rebonding, doesn’t make other players better

but KD’s the cat’s meow because he can SCORE, baby

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 28, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions

If Durant never improves on defense, he'll be a major disappointment

He should be expected to become at least a significant contributor on D, just like Oden should be expected to be a significant contributor on both ends.

by jksnake99 on Jul 28, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions

then

he should be given the opportunity to do so. 5 shot attempts in a game will never allow him to be an offensive force

Able but unwilling

by 1badbadger on Jul 28, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions

i think the important thing to note is that Durant

NEVER gets called out on his defense by the media.

by Bskey on Jul 28, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions

no rebounding?

6.5 per game – 3rd in the nba among small forwards

he’s definitely not the 3rd best sf rebounder but saying he has no rebounding is ridiculous.

he’s also not the atrocious defender that people claim. his opposing PER is below average (15.7) but that’s hardly terrible. it’s better than brandon roy for example and i don’t see anyone making too big a deal out of roy not being much of a defender.

he’s also a reasonable shot blocker and in the top 5 in steals at SF. he’s no much of an assist guy but there are only 5 sf’s in the league with more assists per game. it’s not really most sf’s job to create shots for others. lebron does it and that’s about it. it’s a scoring position on offense.

people on this site or beyond ridiculous when it comes to kevin durant. we didn’t draft him and he’s turned out to be an amazing player. move on.

making up stuff about what he can’t do is just ridiculous

by colinmarsh on Jul 28, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Durant is every bit as atrocious on D as people think he is

The only reason his opposing PER isn’t higher has more to do with him guarding the weaker of the opposing team’s wings.. that and the fact that whoever is guarding the better wing also has terrible defense and at every other position really, so it’s not like points are hard to come by when you’re playing the Thunder.

SFs don’t have to create offense for others, but when a player at any position is holding the ball 70% of their team’s possessions you’d certainly like him to have an assist to turnover ratio better than -0.1 or so… I mean come on, that’s ridiculous. He needs to either learn how to run an offense better or play off the ball more, one or the other. 2.8 assists to 3.0 turnovers per game isn’t cutting it.

His rebounding looks decent on the stat sheets, but it’s probably more to do with the fact that his team has no post presence on either end of the court than anything else… Bottom line is there’s really only one area in which Durant is above average right now as a player, and that’s scoring… You could break it down and say he is a good 3pt shooter, good attacking the basket ect, but beyond what offense he creates for himself, he’s an average NBA player at best. I don’t even have anything against Durant, just calling it like I see it. He’s a scorer first, second, and third.., everything else takes a backseat to his offense.

Saying Durant is far and away a better player than Oden is just silly. For one they play two different positions. Secondly, Durant has one full year of development on Oden. Thirdly, everyone knew even before they were drafted that Durant would score more points and put up more pretty stats both because of how they differ as players and because Durant was going to a very bad team who was just going to give him the ball and let it be his show to sell tickets. Oden’s first year (last year) went pretty much the way most people thought it would, he made a name for himself on the defensive end and was a very effective rebounder, but had trouble staying on the court because of foul trouble and was limited offensively. If you watched him in college you would have noticed that he also had trouble staying out of foul trouble at times and was limited offensively to dunks and put backs for the most part.

Even with his limitations offensively, he did manage 9 points in 22 minutes per game…, which was really only like 2 or 3 points less than anyone i’ve heard predicted for him in his first year when they were figuring him to get at least around 30 minutes per game as a full time starter so he was really about right on schedule… All in all, I think he had a pretty decent rookie season considering the circumstances.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 28, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions

I chalk it up to bad coaching throughout Greg's basketball career

I question how much emphasis was put on the fundamentals in Greg’s youth. I don’t see Greg as THE problem but more as a RESULT of the problem we have in the evolution of coaching in American basketball. European players seem to be drilled on the fundamentals as youths regardless of how dominant their size makes them.

Simple example/comparison: Free Throw Technique. Greg’s is hideous. Joel’s has just barely began to improve in his 8th year as a pro?. While Arvydas Sabonis, who was biggest of the three, had a beautiful follow through.

Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Jul 28, 2009 1:53 PM PDT reply actions

Greg either had very poor coaching on fundamental center skills or

he is not very coach-able for one reason or another. In the next year or so we will find out if he is coach-able and can learn to shoot a simple baby hook with rhythm and balance, slow down around the basket on offense, protect the ball, pass out of double teams and reset for better position, set picks and screens, learn to pick and roll, play defense intelligently, etc.

We can blame everything he doesn’t do well on his surgery recovery for only so long. Eventually we have to acknowledge that he simply didn’t have those skills coming out of college. That is disappointing for a #1 pick, but of course he only had one year of college ball and his dominate size over mediocre competition didn’t require him to learn fundamental skills in college. Fortunately, he is still young and if we stick with him he could still turn out to be a top NBA center. However, the Blazers need to be careful how they push and handle him. We don’t want him to get frustrated with management or the community and decide to leave for a fresh start in greener pastures about the time he breaks out.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 28, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions

agree on all points

Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Jul 28, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Bayno's had nothing but positive things to say about Greg's "coachability"

Oden admits that’s he’s not that athletic. But he had incredible agility stats in the pre-draft camp (before the knee injury, of course…) Due to his size in HS, he probably didn’t “need” to work on fundamentals before OSU, and they only had him for 6 months, due to the wrist injury. So he’s got to learn footwork and post moves and compensate for the knee rehab…I expect him to get better and better (if he can just stay healthy) as his career progresses.

I still like the Shaq comparison, even though GO will never get the “non-calls” that Shaq got as he bullied his way to the hoop during his career. Once Greg gets the basic fundamentals down and gets his leg strength back, he’s is going to be a load. And if Miller can feed Oden the ball as he’s rolling to the basket, it’s going to be a dunk and free throw “fest” from #52

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 28, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions

I hope he's coach-able, but I discount everything the Blazers say about Oden.

I listened to KP talk about Oden last summer and it was fiction, hype, and wishful thinking. Bayno talked a few weeks ago about the great shape Oden was in, and after watching Oden at Vegas the first thing Nate said was that Greg was still out of shape and overweight. It’s unfortunate, but KP and the Blazers have driven a lot of the hype over GO that ultimately messed with his head.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 28, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Let's quit shooting the messengers.

There’s no vast conspiracy against Greg Oden. People that see him, many knowledgeable, are just reporting what they see and think – talking snapshots of his ability at particular moments. Toss out a couple of outliers on both sides of the distribution, and it’s obvious that a majority of knowledgeable people agree on his current abilities.

Everyone knows his development was severely derailed by the knee injury, but it been two years since his MF surgery. It’s time for him and us to move on. If more of his physical abilities and agility return that’s great. If not, that’s a shame. Either way, he needs to get in the best shape he possibly can and dedicate himself to learning basketball skills. He can still be a top center in the NBA and make the Blazers a championship contender.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 28, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions

I love the next to last quote.

“Make him a Bill Russell.”
He’s struggling offensively, so…you know…I guess Blazer fans should lower their expectations. Just let him turn into one of the top three or four centers ever, and that will have to suffice.

by Roy Wonder on Jul 28, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions

The Oden talk lately kind of reminds me of something else I quickly got tired of.

Last year ESPN and Fox was lambasted with Brett Farve. You couldnt turn on the TV without seeing that Farve went to the bathroom and they were trying to figure out how many sheets of TP he used to wipe with.

I am getting this same vibe with Oden here in Portland. I am a big Oden fan. During his year at The Ohio State I happened to catch a game he was playing in early in the season. After watching about 3 minutes of the game I had to go Google this freak of a kid. He was playing basketball the way I enjoy watching a center play. Snub nosed D. He was also amazingly quick for his size and he had a lot of intangibles. It was just fun to watch. Then again, I am a huge fan of defense.

Regardless of what Oden brings to the offense, we have the scoring in place. We have guys all over the roster who can drain points. Having someone like Oden to anchor the D is exactly what we need and exactly what he can give us. There is NOTHING wrong with having someone on the team who does nothing but defend and rebound. Remember another championship team back in 2004 with a center who had butterfingers on offense? I dont think Oden will ever be as horrible on offense as Ben Wallace, I dont know if many ever will be, but its not the end of the world. (Yes I know the other argument with this is that the 2004 Pistons we also all good to great defenders, but you have to start somewhere.)

I also remember reading an article interviewing Rick Adelman a while ago. In the article it went into his time with the Blazers, and the thing that stuck out to me was that there was never a play designed around Jerome Kersey. Yet look at his stats (averages: 12 PPG , 26 Minutes, 6 Reb with Portland) . He was nothing more then a garbage scorer and it worked for him and us. Granted he was never an all star and he played a completely different position, but we got a lot out of him because he was the little engine that could. Maybe thats what Oden needs. Let his offense be impromptu. Dont force him on O. Let him just play. Once teams see that we dont dish the ball inside on set plays, they stop worrying about him and it opens him up that much more for lobs and open looks. Maybe this is what he needs. Let him work on making his team better on O and let him hurt people on D.

If Oden can turn his rebounds into points like Kersey did, we will have a monster on our hands.

"OK, it's going to rain tomorrow. And there is going to be a Greenpeace meeting and hippies are going to be protesting" ~ The Buffet of Goodness on Portland

by Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions

Durant is a Chucker!

Durant just hoists up shots 25-35 per game while everyone stands around and watches. like it was posted before his Assist/TO ratio is weak and his team won what…23 games last year…Good enough for…Oh yeah, last in the division! how many did they have the year before? Like 15 or something. in Brandon’s rookie year we won, I think 35 games. then 41 and now in his third year 54…Lets see Durant carry the thunder to a 54 win season this year. Not going to happen.

I loved Durant in college, in fact i liked him more than Greg. But i also didnt pick Texas to win it all, i didnt even have them in the final four. But Greg i had OSU losing to Florida in the title game…You know why? players like Durant are not winners.

How can these “experts” say that Durant is better than LBJ? Rediculous. James not only scores at will, but he defends, has freakish athletic ability and strength…not only that but his teams, UH WIN!

Durant doesnt have that MJ ability to lead a team by making other players better, he is not a good defender either. Say what you want about Roy’s D but i have seen Brandon play some of the best one-on-one defense at times. He is not there to be a constant defensive presence, and in all fairness neither is Durant. But i still dont think Durant is even in the same conversation as a player like Roy…No contest. The way Brandon can win, is the most important thing.

As for Big Greg, well everyone knew that he would have foul issues early in his career. why does that seem like its such a surprise now? Greg lead the league in offensive rebounding average this year (as a rookie) Greg changes the game when he is on the court. Durant does as well but only on one end of the court. With Greg you have to know where he is at all times. On offense he has to be followed and boxed out, usually by two players. On the defensive end his size is felt on drive penetration, unless he is drawn out he is a formidable shot changer. Durant not so much. Granted you have to double Kevin on O but on D, he might as well be Robert Swift.

The point is is that Durant is a shooter. and its not hard to get 25 pts a game when you shoot on 70% of your teams possessions. The problem is is that he doesnt make those around him better by facilitating to their strengths and obviously by their win totals.

by SuperFan #7 on Jul 29, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions