ESPN.com - The State of Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Jul 27, 2009 2:16 PM PDT
Email
PrintI agree with the article in the sense that Blazers management needs to understand this guy is playing on uneven stilts out there, against other large, professional athletes. Until they fix this problem by finding the most cutting edge help out there, he will be destined to a career of bang-ups and possible microfractures. A career summed up with one word, "hope".
A player will also be much more fatigued falling down and tripping. This drains the body of energy very quickly.
Here's the article:
From ESPN.com - The State of Greg Oden
Just saw some video of Greg Oden playing against Brook Lopez and Kevin Love in the USA Basketball Showcase.Look at him out there! Seven feet tall. Strong as an ox, even though he's just barely legal drinking age. Making rebounds that would be difficult for anyone else look easy. If he were still at Ohio State, anyone would consider drafting him at the top of the lottery, even with his injury history.
And this particular performance has been noted as somewhat encouraging.
I loved a lot of what I saw, particularly his conditioning, and commitment to containing smaller quicker ballhandlers.
But for whatever reason, watching this video was the moment that I lost a chunk of hope. In short: He has clearly been working out, working on his game and getting healthy. And as I have written a zillion times, he's an elite NBA rebounder right now, which is more than reason enough to keep him him on the court.
Nevertheless, you watch this and wonder if he'll ever be Greg Oden, as in the franchise-changing player who is a key part of big runs that win important playoff games. The Oden we have right now has some real and troubling obstacles.
- Even though he has been in the NBA mix for more than two years now, he still looks surprised by a lot of what happens on the court.
- He falls down a lot. Enough that it matters in and of itself. (If every player fell as much as he does, "wipeouts" would be a column in the boxscore.) Even more importantly, that many miscalculations and collisions, it's hard on a body, and he's been the king of injuries. The final reason I bring how often he hits the deck: It's a measure of the degree to which he is not anywhere near "in the zone" out there. When players are just rolling, they say everything seems to go really slow for them. To Oden, things seem to be going really fast.
- If you make ten perfect passes to him at game speed, he might make five decent catches.
He may well get there. He's a really nice seeming guy (to the extend I've met him) and I'm pulling for him. But if he does become a superstar, we should honor his hard work, and also remember to look around for some coaches and trainers to thank for their hard work -- because we've seen enough to know he's not a natural.
117 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Yeah, Oden definitely isn't quick
with his hands or with his reflexes. However, the “hitting the deck” doesn’t scare me that much. It isn’t a pretty sight to see centers fall down, but I think it’s better than say a Dwyane Wade driving uncontrollably and landing awkwardly.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
" Been in the NBA mix for more than two years now" ???
There are a lot of stupid people in the press ! Journalism
has been dead for a while, but hello ?? He was a rookie last
year. GO averaged 20 + minutes a game and put up good numbers
for those minutes despite being raw, coming off MF surgery and
having two injuries (foot – 7 games ? & Mag’s metal knee brace chippage
- 15 games ?). Get a grip ESPN (Every Stupid Putz’s Notion), he’s coming
into his sophomore year and needs some time to develop. Big boy fall down !
Great line !
COINCAST HAS FALLEN DOWN AND NEEDS TO BE SHOT !!!
It's GO time !
Yes, the moment I read that line I said to myself, "This guy (the article writer) is an idiot".
That’s clearly putting the case in the worst possible light rather than being an objective observer.
Henry's NOT an idiot though
and this article bummed me out because of that. It looks like blatant “Look at me, I’m not a Blazers homer!” posturing by Henry, and underplaying Oden just to prove his journalistic objectivity is every bit as bad as overly hyping him.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 28, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions
remember when people said his injury was a blessing in disguise?
a chance for him to get stronger, get acclimated to the NBA? he may have been officially a rookie last year, but he did have the luxury of a redshirt year that other players don’t have.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
yup
microfracture surgery =luxury
you’re kidding right?
Magneto was right
!
by WhiteRabbit on Jul 27, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
Oden looks awkward often. But then I remind myself that he is still young, and being big and strong should trump some of his awkwardness.
For some reason I usually think of a young Patrick Ewing when I want to compare Oden to somebody. And Ewing definitely was awkward. I would be happy if Oden became as good as Ewing. And since Ewing was a superstar, I guess maybe I don’t agree after all.
by unblindloyalty on Jul 27, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
i mean if oden was even near ewing blazers will be contenders
but if he is just a solid starater type like say the chief…… im not sure star duo of roy and LMA puts blazers over the top. those two to me need a third equal star to make it happen. more like the spurs than kobe/shaq.
the chief?
if GO ends up being one of the 50 GOAT, like Parish i think we’ll be ok
Magneto was right
!
by WhiteRabbit on Jul 27, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Im sure the critics will keep swinging away until they get a hit
Oden is gonna be fine. He was playing with a new team, guys he just met, in a new system with new coaches, with almost no prep time. No he didnt come out and drop a Triple Double, but jeez, cut the big guy some slack—he still put up decent numbers. I Hate the Oden Haters! I cant wait to see BIG GO play with a PG like Miller, with A. MIller tossing lobs and BIG GO shattering backboards! This will be a season the Oden haters begin to fade out.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 27, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Center time
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
Bill Walton
Bill Russel
all spent four years in college, playing 1/3 to maybe 1/2 a NBA season while their bodies matured, with great basketball coaches at the college level and without the same pressure to make a franchise special.
Even then it took more than these center’s themselves to make their respective teams a champion.
I think less time should be used to blast a player’s lack of potential at that age. Let’s face it, nobody has ever liked the blazer’s. No one wants to seem them (or any other small market team) win it all. The novelty will pay dividends, but repeated wins by a small market team, the powers that be assume, would be financial disaster. Hence the propensity to denigrate the Blazers, Seattle cum OK, New Orleans, etc. I don’t see Dwight Howard as any better offensively relative to his years in the league than Oden but I don’t see a hue and cry about his abilities—some want too, but don’t have the guts.
Wilt spent 3 years in college
He came out early to join the Globetrotters.
Your point remains on target though. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
he's a victim of unreal expectations and a lack of patience
two things
1) GO coming to an up-and-coming team like Portland was actually worse in regards to expectations. Usually #1 picks go to horrible teams and are a bright spot of hope, but the team, and thus the player, have no real expectations on them because everyone knows they’re bad, and doesn’t expect a quick/immediate turnaround of fortunes. With Oden, we were lucky to get the #1 pick, and he was seen as a final piece of a contender, the player that would take us from average to awesome, and be able to do so right away. While I think he can still be that player, he was never touted as an offensive star, yet fans and the media alike seem to jab at him for his lack of “fluidity” on the offensive end the fact that he didn’t come in and dominate right away. Yet platers like Andrew Bynum are laregly spared the same judgement. In the games he has played he as put up great rebound and blocked shot #s, which is exactly what we need him to do….the expectations need to be more realistic
2) Most people, including fans and journalists, have NO IDEA about microfracture surgery, what it involves, and the recovery process, not just for an average human being, but for a 7’ tall pro athlete. Not only does the surgery and healing take time, but there is an extended period of reconditioning and readjustment to the speed of the game. Other who have had the surgery (Kenyon Martin ,Amare Stoudemire, etc.) have taken at least 1 season to recover and get back to full strength. Thanks to Oden’s age he should fully recover. But combine that injury/surgery/healing time/rehab time with entering the NBA as a rookie and missing out on your first season, and I’m not surprised Oden was “not smooth” last season. It will be this next season that is a better indication of his promise
I remember reading Chad Ford’s draft analysis of Oden, saying he was already an NBA talent on the defensive end and rebounding, but that his offensive game was very raw and would need a lot of work. Back then, a guy that could grab 10 boards and block 2-4 shots per game sounded exactly like what we needed and what would put our team over the top. IMO, and from looking at the USA minicamp footage, that’s what we have
by rip_city_swagger on Jul 27, 2009 2:58 PM PDT reply actions
He's a victim of a bad knee injury, too much bulking up, and naturally bad conditioning
The expectations of Oden were based on the player at Ohio St.
He is a shell of that player right now.
He looks akward, clumsy, and relies on his brute strength
THANK YOUR FOR MAKING MY POINT
he didn’t have a knee injury….it was preventative surgery
he always relied on his strength
he only looks akward and clumsy on OFFENSE, which has always been his bag
by rip_city_swagger on Jul 27, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
he missed one (1) rebound in the video
an offensive rebound he came across the basket and through Lopez to get. And he did not bobble it, it was hit out of his hands.
Was he beat on defense? One time by Lopez in the post. The other times he contained Lopez in the post. A guard, I think Westbrook, got by him once, but Oden shadowed him (without fouling) and Westbrook gave it up rather than try to finish, which is not Westbrook’s natural inclination. Did you see the tap over Lopez and then recovering his own missed tap on the other side past two defenders and finishing? Did you see how quick, even explosive that was?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 27, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec
I actually think the most encouraging footage was from the first day. I could care less about his offensive skills at this point; instead, I was really impressed by how quickly he slid over to hedge screens and then rotated back to his man. Being able to do that consistently will definitely help Greg avoid ticky-tack fouls.
he looks like a very big young man playing in a very fast paced game
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 28, 2009 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions
his movement didn't seem all that awkward to me
he seemed more confident in some situations and he seemed lost in others. perhaps that is what you mean by looking awkward. despite the improvements i see, there are still a ton of more room for improvements. his conditioning has improved immensely since last year, but there’s still a long way to go. he looked laterally slow in some situations, but i think that has more to do with saving his energy and his conditioning, bc when it came to defending penetrating guards his lateral movement was decent.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 28, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
This is not an article.
This is an opinion from Henry Abbott. I like Henry, and I’m happy he’s a Blazer fan. But he’s not an analyst; he’s just another fan like your or me, except he has a podium. I wasn’t impressed from the video footage either, but I think it’s prudent to simply hold off from forming opinions before real games actually start. There’s a long offseason left for Greg to continue to get back into shape and ready for camp.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
Gay
just like all the other guards just chucked away in the vid and every other vid I have seen of that “game”. It was far more like and AAU game than any international game I have ever watched. Way too many one on one guard play for me, hopefully these guys will learn quickly.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
That's right
and it put the big guys in bad positons for rebounding because they never knew when something was going up, or the guards didn’t wait until the big guys got into position.
the announcer was almost funny
“(fill in the name) for three”
“(fill in the name) for three”
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 27, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
what distinction are you inventing.
i find my opinion to be better than many “analysts” i agree and disagree sometimes. its OK to agree with someone who has a little bit of doubt about some aspect of blazers. sheeesh,,
I can't go into the JD
750+ comments kill my work computer.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
what is that debate again?
KD is like top ten player next year. LOL. im not even sure the next 10 years wont be remember more for the durantula than for lebros.
Are you kidding?
Top 10 in scoring, sure. More FGAs =/= better player than most of the league. Yeah, he’s good, but he has quite a way to go.
he rebounds. and can be that closer cause homeboy can get his shot off against anyone.
its not just scoring its his skil set. kd is basically lamar odom tim thomas realized (i.e. kill instinct, actual handle, plus ray allen shooting).
i mean 25 a game in yr too aint bad even if he didn’t add on the rebounds too. you would take greg (even with the various excuses on his slower develment in mind) over kd at this point? i may or may not agree with that.
I'm with you on this
Durant is a fantastic individual talent. He shoots so much because he’s on a miserable team. In case nobody noticed, his percentage is pretty good. My only concern is his apparent lack of distribution skills, though it may just seem that way because he has nobody to pass to. Still, Durant strikes me as the next coming of Tracy McGrady or Vince Carter- truly talented players who for whatever reason don’t make their team title contenders.
perhaps. kobe did just fine. kd is shooting 25 at almost 50% clip. thank you for reminding me of the % part of it.
the kd era is upon us. the lebron era was short-lived. thas what my friend just texted me after seeing the usa minicamp practices.
First of all
please edit your post to not include the whole article, just pick your favorite line or two and then let everyone go to truehoop and read the rest for themselves. I don’t want to but I have to take it down if you don’t edit it.
As for the post by Henry, I got a totally different view from the same video, which is kinda crazy but that is also one of the joys of the human race. I am really pumped for the season, and I think Greg will have a break out year that puts all his doubters to shame.
15/13/3 in 30 mins per game should do it. Drop the fouls, which he seems to have been able to do by watching those videos, and his per game stats will start to show what he was last year. It always amazes me how “experts” can be so clueless as to how a player does. It seems that if a player doesn’t avg 25pts per game he is a bust, and if he does he is the next LBJ even if he can’t play a lick of defense or create for his team mates, (as Durant is starting to be hailed as by some).
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Wow, couldn't disagree more Ben
I actually watched the video off a link from Oregonlive or BE earlier today, and about 3/4 of the way through I just turned it off… I was getting depressed because Oden didn’t look markedly better than he did last season.
I don’t know what I was expecting, probably way too much, and I fully acknowledge I am by no means a talent evaluator or scout… but I have watched a lot of basketball and when I watched GO in that video I just didn’t felt like he had “it” whatever “it” is. I don’t know if it’s feel for the game, comfortability in your own skin, or what, but he just seemed to be lacking that certain ability that I can’t describe I can just see or not see.
I will remember today as the day I go from being an Oden apologist over to the Oden “doubter” side. I still think he will be a quality player, and potentially a valuable piece, but my expectations have gone from him being the 1b to Roy’s 1a to something closer to “defensive specialist who rebounds a lot and gets 2-3 putbacks a game.”
That’s not bad, in fact that is valuable, but it isn’t what I thought we were drafting when we drafted him 2 years ago.
I truly hope he turns it around, but I am not pinning my hopes on him, the same way I have given up hope on LMA ever being a double digit rebounder. They are what they are… good players with flaws, and that is okay, I will still root for them as passionetly and as loud as I would for any other Blazer. But GO is no longer the guy to help lead us to the promised land, in my eyes there is only one player now he can truly do it, and that is Roy. And I am okay with that, because I think he can.
I felt the same way as you
but we need to remind ourselves that this is:
1) a couple months after last season. during which he took a couple week break.
2) he’s still healing from the injury and gaining the strength and agility back.
3) he’s got 3 months to go before next season
I didn't mean to turn you on
I would need confirmation
but I believe at this point that he’s 100% healed and he should be at the point where he’s comfortable moving on it again.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
Except that he just finally started doing squats again only a few weeks back
That’s a big step towards being “healed”. Sure his knee is healed, but not in the sense that he has his strength back in the lower body. It’s sort of like taking a year off from playing (any of us). When you get back out there, your mind knows what you want to do, but often times, your legs are reluctant and you end up looking and feeling awkward.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 27, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed iDea
Also:
1) He does look quicker and more mobile.
2) His cardio seems better than at any point last season.
3) It’s very early in the off season.
It may not be spectacular yet, but the fact that it’s so early in the off season and he already looks better; bodes well for GO.
You should give him more than 10 weeks of off season training
Oden was clearly WAY out of shape during the season, so it’s going to take quite a bit of work to get into great basketball shape. Also, the pace in those scrimmages was off the charts. He’s got to lug his huge frame (still slightly overweight) up and down the court to keep up with much quicker players who aren’t recovering from microfracture.
There are another 3 months remaining in the off season. I’ll be much more worried when it’s the pre season and he still looks that slow.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
I sometimes wonder if he's slow
because he doesn’t know where to be on the floor. To me it looked, in part, like he was thinking too much.
If i’m right, playing time will easily fix some of that. I really hope i’m right though because… dang he’s slow.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
oden lacks quickness and could use more conditioning
i dont think he’ll be slow when he is at his peak however.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
part of not knowing where to go is not having anywhere to go
were they running plays? It looked the same on both sides – he and Lopez run to the post, not receive the ball, look desperately for a screen to set.
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 27, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
And watching the highlights of him at Ohio State linked to above
I was struck at how much smaller his upper body was then. I’d love to see Greg drop to like 250-255 to save the wear and tear on his lower body and to get some of that explosiveness back.
Imagine how much higher you could jump or more quickly you could slide laterally if you took off a thirty-pound weight strapped to your back.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 28, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Watching the video
I can definitely see what you’re saying.
Oden still looks like he’s playing at half the speed. Lopez was agile and Oden still looks lumbering. He also has no hops.
That said, I think he looked better than at the end of last year. He does, however have a LOT of work to do. The year off from basketball REALLY did him no favors. I can also lean more towards the Durant side now. I was for drafting Oden, but took the contrary position of drafting Durant and it’s ironic that some of my contrary arguments have been holding true in terms of health and basketball IQ.
So why was I for Oden despite all the risks that seem to be coming true? Oden doesn’t have to be great, he just has to be good. Let’s be honest, most centers in the league aren’t that good. If Oden can just be good, we’re going to the championships. Durant would have had to be great because we would have had a huge hole at center. Durant is looking great, but Oden still only has to be good.
Oden does look like a project out there though.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
by ratbastird on Jul 27, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
the fact that he still has no hops is what scares me
Greg Oden was a #1 pick because he was an incredible athlete with amazing leaping ability. That player still hasn’t come back. I still hope he does, but who knows.
Exactly. He had great spring off the floor. And was a Dwight Howard like physical specimen.
Extremely cut, extremely athletic for a man his size. Now he moves and looks like a big and strong. but lumbering NBA center.
Everything that made him special has been sapped by injuries. If it doesnt come back he’s not a game changer
I saw some clips from the Suns game, in Portland last year, where his hops looked fine
also the block on Josh Smith in the loss in NO last year. oh fine, I’ll chase links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Q9BVXeKzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
the overtime loss to Philly was another game he looked pretty springy, late in the season
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 27, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
On first day video he had hops
On the video from the first day, he was jumping out of the room for some offensive rebounds. I’m assuming that the issue is more conditioning than lack of hops, or continued injury recovery.
I'm not sure what you thought about Oden 2 years ago
but if you thought we were getting Shaq this the Media hype mislead you. Greg avg about 15 ppg in college, he was not a big time scorer there, and won’t be in the NBA, he will avg double figures this year, but closer to 15 than 25.
The single greatest thing I saw in all 3 videos, (both practice days and the scrimage) was Greg’s improved ability to show on the pick and roll against very quick guards, (rose, westbrook and Harris) yet still recover to his man in the paint. This is where Oden picked up 1 or 2 fouls per game, that caused him so much trouble last season. If he can break that, and improve his conditioning, (which was the second greatest thing I saw from him in the videos) then he will be able to play 30 mins per game next year, and easily avg the 15/13/3 I predicted above.
Don’t let the media draw you into their cycle of hype/hate of professional athletes. The media continues its love affair with the stat of PPG, never bothering to look at the rest of the box score unless there are double digits somewhere, but avg 9ppg and 7rpg in your rookie year in 20mpg is good, doing it off of MF surgury is insanely good.
With that said, I can understand your position, but I disagree and look forward to Oden winning you back to his side.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I thought his defensive movement was a lot better. That was encouraging.
I really want to see him get back to being able to leap and block shots. The play where he had Korver measured up on the break but couldn’t get the block (as Korver laid it in) really emphasized how far Greg is from being an elite shotblocker at this point. Averaging 3 blocks is pretty optimistic given that he averaged 1.9 per 36 minutes last year.
I had an obstructed view on that, but it looked like Korver quick-shot it
and Greg came in behind, slapping the backboard as if he expected a conventional layup
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 27, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
no matter how good greg becomes
i would think his critics will always have ammo if he doesnt live up belong in discussions of being one of the greatest Cs of all time. in the end if we win a few rings, i could care less who is carrying the team.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
sure, if he averages 15/13 next year, he'll still have critics (especially if Durant is averaging 30 and OKC is winning)
but at least we won’t hear the “b” word as much.
agreed
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent stuff.
Greg Oden is a very productive player already just due to his style of play – he just needs to stay on the floor more. See this:
http://www.wagesofwins.com/Portland740809.html
And before anybody dismisses this because it doesn’t agree with whatever opinions they already hold, check some of the stuff on http://dberri.wordpress.com/
I also was encouraged by his much-improved showing on the pick and roll
but we ought to take that with a grain of salt for the same reason that we’re taking his lack of fluidity and general demeanor of uncertainty on the court with a grain of salt — because he was playing in an AAU-ish setting where there wasn’t much cohesion or chemistry in the set plays.
Those pick and rolls that Greg was successfully hedging will be executed about 10 times more crisply in the regular season. Not saying he can’t handle that — just saying we have to keep that in mind.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 28, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
2 Months After the Season You See One 10min Video and You're a Doubter?..
If that’s true you may have never been a believer. Let’s be realistic. These videos were from an Olympic training camp of drills and scrimmages. These weren’t the best showcase for anything but individual talents. Any Big Banger 7 footer is going to look slow in an unstructured, playground style, one on one move type game… and that’s exactly what this was.
I find it hard to believe that people are so hungry to be down on Oden that they will watch something this meaningless… after such a short time… and judge him to be a hopeless case. Did you expect a couple of months of working by himself to turn GO into Shaq??? Do you think he was going to reached his “ceiling” in the few weeks that you weren’t looking?
And apparently, just like on oregonlive, there are “fans” just waiting to pounce on the Durant bandwagon here too. Good young talent but he plays on a terrible team and is THE offense on that team. His defense is very weak, his rebounding is average at best and he has a negative assist to turnover ratio. Add that to the fact that we needed a Big at draft time more than we needed someone to compete with Roy for the ball and take shots from him. I say we made the right choice.
Somehow it feels like some people want Greg to fail just so they can either complain about it or say I told you so…
Very odd way to be a fan…imo
Sorry…I guess I’m ranting but I just can’t believe how many people refuse to believe Greg might turn out ok…
He had four fouls in 24 minutes in this game
Not encouraging
If Oden stays healthy
he’ll be fine. end of story
Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Rudy, Batum, Outlaw, Webster, Bayless, Blake, Miller, Joel... Holy crap!
by axel360 on Jul 27, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Actually, wasn't that the main point of the story?
The fact that his style of play, conditioning, and coordination make him extremely injury prone.
If our hopes lie in Oden not getting injured, pointing out the fact that he plays in such a manner that exposes him to a much higher risk of injury seems like a story.
He may not be fluid like Hakeem
but Oden owns. Look at the man’s stats. Look at what he did on one bum knee!
Per 36 minutes:
Rebounds: 11.6 Assists: 0.8 Steals: 0.7 Blocks: 1.9 TO: 2.4 Points: 14.8
Give Oden 32 minutes+ and he’ll get 15/12/2 easy.
Facts: Oden is the best Offensive rebounder in the league and is one of the best rebounders period.
Oden takes up space, boxes out, requires a double team, and wreaks havoc in the paint.
Oden doesn’t need plays called for him to score. His offensive rebounding leads to easy dunks and trips to the free throw line.
Oden is a good, possibly great, defender and both blocks and alters shots.
He put up a PER of over 18 on a bad knee and with foul trouble. Winscore like him too.
Oden is already a good player and one of the better centers in the league. I think that Oden will be a top 5 center this year, book it.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
replace assists with rebounds?
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
nm...read your stateline incorrectly
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
I did the same thing, then I was like, no…ok I get it.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
huh?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 27, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
i misread your statline. sorry.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
But Oden can't play 36 minutes
Based off last year’s stats he’d average over 6 fouls per 36 minutes. And he had 4 fouls in 24 minutes in this scrimmage.
Greg's worth will never be measured accurately by a statline
If Greg is on the floor:
- we have a top 10 defensive rebounder closer to the basket than any of your guys (so don’t miss, shooters… Noonan!)
- every guard penetrating the lane is thinking about how much he’ll have to alter his shot, and is looking for Greg instead of his teammates
- offensive rebounders are thinking about getting back on the break (rather than go down low and risk and elbow)
- opposing coaches predictably draw up pick and rolls and drives to try to foul him out (changing their offense – hope we pick up on that, and help Greg out more this year)
And when he adds getting a few dunks per game on lobs from Andre, look out Oden haters.. (I especially can’t wait to hear Cowherd eat crow on this one…)
I'm just gonna plug my ears and wait 'til...
the season starts, cuz I can’t put up with much more Oden is underwhelming talk. The dude is still getting in shape…..chill. He’ll be kickin’ some arse if he stays healthy.
"The successful man will profit from his mistakes and try again in a different way." - Dale Carnegie --- Same goes for the Blazers. Thanks Houston.
I'm new here but....
Is this the forum where we discuss trades for Chris Paul and beat large four-legged animals?
ha...
*beat dead, large four-legged animals
This koolaid is drinkable..... despite it leaving a nasty flavor in my mouth....
not too much sugar to give the kids a sugar high, but not enough to give them the nice crash we’re waiting for before bed time……
Greg is an Average Center in the NBA. he is young, but he’s still just average.
I want what I wanted before he got hurt, A basketball God.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
so everyone had hope
but now that we have seen him in team usa practice everything is lost?
I doubt it, I am very optimistic, and not just because I am a buckeye.
- Sam
Simple question
Does the team, especially Roy and LA, play better with Oden on the floor? Does Oden impact the other team on defense? Despite the ugly fouls and rookie mistakes Oden actually posted respectable numbers in plus / minus, player efficiency, stats per 40, double doubles, etc.
Personally I don’t put all my faith in those stats, and I don’t expect Oden to be the guy who leads the Blazers through the playoffs either. The guy might be huge and strong but he’s barely old enough to drink and only has 61 games of experience in the NBA. I think he’ll improve just by growing up and spending time on the court.
I’m looking at Oden in what he brings to the Blazers, not how his numbers compare to someone else. They don’t need 22 points a night from the center position so it’s pointless to wish for Dwight Howard numbers. From where I sit (in the cheap seats) I see a bunch of scorers who could really use a big body down in the post to block shots, rebound, and put in easy buckets when they come up. Isn’t that exactly what Oden brings?
If the TEAM as a whole plays better with Oden on the floor, and putting him out there leads to more wins, then who cares about the box scores and sports writers? I’m sure not going to judge how the team will function by watching video of Oden running around in an out of control scrimmage.
by JonathanPDX on Jul 27, 2009 7:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Hold on to your dead horses
That wasn’t an article by an ESPN journalist. That was an uncredited post on an ESPN blog frequented by Faker fans. So let’s turn it around and see the positive side. On that USA national team there was this giant broad shouldered guys with muscles everywhere and a skinny waist. He was instantly notable as the strongest man on the court. He seemed to have pretty good stamina for such a giant as he was quickly dashing up and down the court doing more than his fair share of running and defending. The Fakers also have a giant center but, while he’s also strong, he’s a step slower, prone to over weight and not nearly the athlete as Oden. Both seem prone to injuries but if they can stay healthy for a year or two they could become a menace on the court. There don’t seem to be any players in the WC stronger than these two so again, given a few healthy years, we can expect many seasons of nasty battles down in the paint between those two. The winner of those battles will certainly be a champion.
Sure seems like alot of ODEN bashing going on in here
Anyone who has decided BIG GO is a bust is just crazy!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM PDT reply actions
What's with all the talk of Oden looking "awkward"
Half the centers in the NBA “look awkward” while playing the game, it comes with the territory of being a friggin giant. Dwight Howard more times than not looks “lost” with the ball in his hands if he’s further than, oh, 6 feet from the basket or if he’s forced to move out away from the basket to defend (am I the only one who’s noticed how the defensive 3 second call never seems to apply to Howard?), but he’s still pretty dominating in the post. And correct me if i’m wrong, but isn’t that what centers are for? Who cares how pretty he looks, if he’s making difficult rebounds for anyone else look easy, defending the rim as well as any big, and is an elite NBA rebounder…, why can’t we just be happy with that and consider whatever offense he can manage be the gravy on the cake? It’s not as if 9 points in 20 minutes per game is all that bad.
The bottom line is Oden scrimmaged with a group of NBA starters/stars and came out looking like the best low post defender and rebounder there. Heck, even when people write negatively about him they say things like " he’s an elite NBA rebounder right now"… Since when does any team with hopes of centending not need an "elite NBA rebounder?
And another thing....
What difference does it make how high Oden can jump when he has like a 7’10" wingspan…, he can throw his arms straight up in the air and get about us much height as some NBA post players jumping, so give the guy a break already.
um...
if he’d just throw his arms “straight” up in the air…. ;) he’d be fine. just sayin.
and he still likes to bring the ball down to his waist when he turns.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
I guess it's all in how you look at it.
The way I see it, if there’s video tape of a player and it makes you cringe watching because of how much he has to improve and at the same time people who’ve seen the footage first hand are saying he was the best low post defender and rebounder there and an “elite rebounder in the NBA now”… well that makes me think "ok, he’s a very good post defender and “elite” rebounder now and he has tons of room to improve…." Well you get my point, i’d be drooling over his potential while at the same time content in having a good post defender and elite rebounder in the meantime…. That’s just me though.
ya but we want greg to be superstar so he better not be awkward.
i sure as hellz hope he aint like half the centers in the league.
I'm not sure you're getting the point.
When I said half the centers look awkward, some of the best centers in the league were included in that.., and some PFs. Howard looks “lost” whenever he’s away from the basket as well, but he still manages to do just fine. Bynum looks like a deer caught in headlights most of the time he’s on the court and has had his own injury problems, yet no one is closing the book on his career. Even Dirk (PF I know) looks like a chickent without a head when he’s asked to defend face up away from the basket.
The point is it’s more about physics than anything, it’s hard for a giant 7 foot frame (oden’s frame is even longer than most with his super long limbs) to make the same cuts, slashes, and dashes as us normal people.., let alone other NBA stars. Whenever they’re forced to put their athleticism on display it usually doesn’t look all that impressive, even when it is. Everyone raves about Howards stat lines, but he doesn’t exactly look like a dancer out there. If you ask your giant to move in space he’s going to look ugly doing it, it’s whether he’s effective at it or not that’s important.
From all accounts, Oden was quite effective defensively and on the boards so what does it really matter what he looks like doing it? If you’re saying that he could improve drastically with more refined technique and skill, I agree… But when he’s already considered a good post defender and elite rebounder, having alot of room for improvement is a good thing right? If he’s an elite level rebounder now and improves drastically over his career with improved technique, where does that leave him? If he’s “elite” with major flaws in his game, he’ll be down right scary when he pulls it all together.
Either way, when someone describes a player as the best post defender and rebounder among a group of young NBA stars, that’s generally a good thing. When that same person says that Oden has shown improvement offensively while mentioning he has alot to improve on in that area, isn’t that also a possitive? So far we’ve heard that Oden is a very good post defender, elite level NBA rebounder, and has modestly improved his offensive game… i’m not hearing much bad in that, in fact it sounds all good to me.
blah blah... ever stepped on a basketball court and you just can tell by the way the person cary's himself that he wont be a major player in the game
but jsut a roleplayer? well that is what i mean by awkward. not technique and skill. he just doesn’t look like he fits, or feels like he is convinced of belonging amongst all that young talent.
I just
hope for ODen to be healthy all of this next year. Everything else will take care of itself.
the one thing giving me hope was how alot of times centers had a hard time guarding him one on one.
even though he had only one post move. he just backed em down. But i think the scouting report on him is to force him to turn baseline where he gets a little light. you saw lopez do that to him and greg put his head down in shame after.
seems like he has confidence issues.
Ummmmmm
I for one was encouraged by him fallin down. To be seven feet 250+lbs and comming of MF surgery and diving on the floor for a loose ball. THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED. SHOW NO FEAR GREG !
Bee, on tha loook. out fore !!!! tha grammar po-lease.
did you forget?
what was oden’s biggest issue last season(when he played)? not being able to stay on the floor because of foul trouble. he played 25 min or so and only had 2 fouls… thats what i took from the scrimmage. just having his presence in the game is a huge factor. thats encouraging for me.
He had 4 fouls
According to several reports. In 24 minutes.
did you find a box?
the espn one I saw said 2 fouls.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
hit the button to soon
the espn one seems to have been taken down or i would have posted it.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
McMillan time
is Miller time. I think this season is going to be the season that defines Nate as a coach. He has an opportunity here to use Miller to teach Oden how to play a good pick and roll game and he has an experienced, veteran Miller to direct the team in general so that young players can be guided out of their on court confusions. If Oden stays healthy, Oden should score 12 – 15 points a game, 12-15 rebounds a game and 2-3 blocks a game while playing about thirty minutes. Not doing so won’t be because Oden can’t do it, it will be because his coach couldn’t manage Oden’s progress as a basketball player. Oden is young and needs to be coached, not managed like a veteran.
When all the cards are shown
I bet we will see that both Blazers and Oden’s management teams have not worked well with his leg length issues. They are coming up with solutions that do not fix his underlying physical alignment problems.
He walking on stairs right now and no, pilates doesnt fix that.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
by loyal_blazer on Jul 28, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
something to think about
Durant vs Oden
After Durant’s rookie year, eventhough he won the ROY on rep, most people saw a chucker who didn’t shoot well, pass well, rebound well, or defend well. There were excuses ofcourse, but his production was crappy, and although there was hope he would improve, nothing was for sure. Then in his SECOND season, he began to understand what he could do and what he couldn’t do on the court, his percentages went up, as did his scoring, and then the experts saw him as “almost as good as LBJ”.
I guess the point I am trying to make is, while I don’t expect Oden to avg 25 a night in his SECOND season, I do expect him to be much improved vs his rookie year. The national media doesn’t seem to be willing to understand that eventhough Greg has been paid by the Blazers for 2 years, he has only played for one. HIs SECOND season will be much better than his rookie one, looking ahead to next summer we will all have a different view of him.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I watched a lot of Oden last season and his hands are fine and I didn't see him fall down
Perhaps those are the perils of basing an opinion off one or two clips.
The worst part about Oden is that he has no offensive game whatsoever, and 1b is that he fouls a lot. Both are pretty common rookie issues.
Blazer Fan
He has poor hands
But I don’t get the falling down thing. I never really noticed it and a man that large falling I would think is noticeable.
Does Henry Abbot have a ghost writer now?
I mean, there’s just a bunch of bizarre, groundless statements in that piece. Weird! For instance, that GO has been “in the NBA mix” for 2 years now. Sorry, but sitting in a suit on the sidelines isn’t the same as being in the game! Of course, the reality is that GO has less than ONE full season in the NBA under his belt.
Then there’s the part about GO falling down all the time. Where on earth did “Henry” get that? Likewise, since when does GO drop a lot of passes? Au contraire, GO has very good hands for a 7-footer. (A Blazer fan like Henry should know, after watching Przy for the past several seasons.)
Sure, GO looked awkward a lot last season. But much of that was clearly due to conditioning issues. When your body is not moving nearly as quickly or easily as you’re used to, nothing is going to go smoothly for you. Try putting on a 40 lb weight belt and a couple of metal knee braces and playing a full-court pick-up game. You’d get the idea pretty quickly. Geez, this isn’t rocket science.
GO had the typical rookie big man adjustment struggles last season, compounded by the fact that A) he’d gone a full year without playing any hoops; B) he was coming off a surgical procedure that typically takes two seasons to recover from; and C) as a guy hyped as a “generational center,” he had the weight of outlandish expectations to live up to. Even without dealing with those issues, GO would have struggled his rookie year; unlike Lopez, he’d had only one injury-shortened year of college ball.
Coming out of Ohio State, most experts viewed GO as something of a project at the offensive end but already capable of dominating defensively and on the boards. This season we should see that GO. You could see that guy emerging in those USA mini-camp drills and scrimmages, and it’s still just July.
The real GO is about to make his NBA debut. What’s in question is when & if we’ll see the real Henry Abbott again.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
GO's stats in games he played 28+ Minutes
He played 28+ minutes in 13 games with averages of:
13.9 PPG
10.5 RPG
1.6 BPG
1.0 SPG
in just over 32 MPG
Not too bad for a rookie if you ask me. Thats about what he averaged in college. He just needs to be out there for 30 minutes and he puts up numbers. He had only one bad game during this stretch and still put up great numbers.
Rip City. can't be stopped. 09.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Blazer's Edge
Related FanShots on Blazer's Edge
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
