Artest Cannot Stop Roy!

by wingzeta on Jul 27, 2009 1:07 AM PDT

A common sentiment being floated on many BE threads is that the Lakers have now Blazer proofed themselves by adding Artest, or that they along with every other team in the West have improved dramatically.

First, the Lakers have patched the hole left by the loss of Ariza to free agency with Artest. Ariza was a good defender, and a much more dynamic offensive player than Artest. He is also much younger. The Lakers did not want to lose him, and they have not improved by replacing him with Artest. They simply stopped the bleeding for a shorter term with an older, but good and tough veteran.

Second, when was the last time Artest was a Roy stopper? It was back during the regular season. After the last time the Blazers played Houston, Roy said he had figured out something about Artest's defense, and Artest has not been a problem for him since. Din't Roy score 42pts in one playoff game with Artest and Battier on him, and average 26.7pts for the series? It was Lamarcus and Outlaw that had problems scoring against Scola and Battier respectively that was an issue all series. As long as LA doesn't get them for mid level exceptions too, we still have a good shot.

I just want to blow up this Artest myth, because I'm seeing it repeated as if it were gospel.

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Comments

Ariza more dynamic than Artest??

Thats not the point you’re trying to make though. I agree that Artest is not a Roy stopper. The way that the Artest signing helps the l*akers most against the Blazers is that now Kobe doesnt have to guard Roy. Kobe can concentrate on jacking up shots and pretending he is a good teammate and Artest can attempt to guard Roy, Wade, Lebron etc.

by TheSportsPsychologist on Jul 27, 2009 1:25 AM PDT reply actions

I stand by that

Artest shoots jump shots, and drives to get fouled. That is his offensive range. Ariza can shoot the three, put the ball on the floor, go baseline for dunks, and generally get to the rim with his speed and agility, and draw fouls. He is also a good defender with great anticipation for getting steals. Remember Ariza stealing several crucial inbounds passes in the playoffs for instance? I think Houston got the better of the deal overall, but LA added toughness, which is harder to quantify I admit.

Also, Kobe will be guarded by Batum, which is nice for us, but it would be nice if Kobe had to guard Outlaw on the offensive end. In that instance the value of Outlaw is a little more clear, since neither Kobe or Artest would be great against Outlaw, but they might against Webster, and Batum’s offensive game is unknown as of yet.

by wingzeta on Jul 27, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions

That's why Rudy needs to play serious minutes.

Get him out there running through screens and all over the place (a la Rip Hamilton) to wear down Kobe.

by oregon_fan on Jul 27, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Good post wingzeta

I hadn’t read about Roy’s insight into Artest’s defensive technique and the subsequent results. Interesting. I like the exclamation point in your title.

by LewisClark on Jul 27, 2009 1:34 AM PDT reply actions

Thanks!

It’s the more polite version of ALL CAPS.

by wingzeta on Jul 27, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions

The Houston Series

Roy did score 26.7pts but his assists per game nearly halved and his turnovers increased. My guess is from the Houston series, we learned how quickly our offense could be stifled with only one true creator. Months later, in walks Miller. I do believe our young team will improve organically with team defense as well.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Jul 27, 2009 2:29 AM PDT reply actions

Watching the Houston series...

I thought they did us a favor every time they put Artest ~~-rather than Battier -~~ on B Roy. I thought Battier did a much better job on him.

Artest is a more dynamic offensive player than Ariza, but less predictable and less good as a spot up shooter. Will Artest’s offense mesh with the Lakers? We’ll see.

by Hawthorne Wingo on Jul 27, 2009 3:37 AM PDT reply actions

Why is is so hard to post a recommendation?

I’d like to recommend this post.

by Natsthecat on Jul 27, 2009 5:19 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

I will recommend your recommendation.

It took my two years to come up with an avatar and sig
and this is the best I could come up with.

by einman77 on Jul 27, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

artest>ariza

however,

artest<ariza and odom

bayless leaves over my dead body

by thomasikehara on Jul 27, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions

agreed

Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge

by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Can't stop him....

But he can sure wear him down over a 7 game series.

2-4 the who

by 24thewho on Jul 27, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions

Well... only because no one else could make a shot.

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Jul 28, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Roy

going up against Kobe and Artest is going to be much much tougher than just going up against Battier and Artest. One will wear him down on offense while the other wears him out on defense. If the Lakers lose Odom it will even things out a bit though.

by BBG on Jul 27, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions

I imagine Batum will gaurd Kobe and Roy on Artest... seems to be a better match-up.

by Escrote on Jul 27, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm not sure

unless Nate decides to substitute more based on situation rather than predetermined times in the game. Based on last year Batum played half of his minutes starting and just some minor minutes to start the 3rd. Kobe tends to defer to his teammates early in the game, so in the end I don’t see Batum checking Kobe when it counts. If Batum progresses and is able to exhibit good decision making, I’d love to see him close out games as well.

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions

From what I saw Batum did a very good job

defending Kobe. Fighting through screens and sticking to him like glue.

by LewisClark on Jul 28, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Artest will manhandle Roy on the block

I’m just sayin

by Souwantmyname on Jul 27, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions

GO for the help defense and a block!

But honestly what SF/SG won’t Artest manhandle?

by austinpwnz on Jul 28, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Lebron

by LewisClark on Jul 28, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions

i'll agree that things even out a bit

Adding Artest may make things a bit more difficult for Roy, however losing Odom and Ariza will be huge if the rest of our team can capitalize. If we are going to go deep in the playoffs it will hopefully be bc of our supporting cast.

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions

if they lose Odom

I’ll predict the blazers to be the #1 seed in the west and appear in the finals. He is the only stud on their bench, and the only bench player who did more than stink and warm chairs during the finals.

by lurtsman on Jul 28, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions

1 seed?

that’s a bit high for a team that didn’t make a splash in the off season and didn’t contend in the west don’t you think?

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 29, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Bill Simons was calling Artest a downgrade from Ariza...

made some good points, Ariza shot 45% from 3 land. Anyway no one seems to believe anything he says around here… lol

by Escrote on Jul 27, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions

I ACTUALLY AGREE

Artest will destroy their chemistry wrestling w/ Kobe for the position of hero. Artest is a complete loon anyway: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60824/20090727/artest_made_a_habit_of_walking_around_in_underwear/

by thetsaiguy on Jul 27, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

lol?

by lurtsman on Jul 28, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm not sure I would take the Lakers lightly bc you think Ariza>Artest

I’m worried bc since Ariza emerged, Kobe didn’t have to expend all of his energy guarding the best player and was able to coast. Kobe + either Ariza or Artest will be tough for us to counter unless we can have someone else step up in the playoffs. Brandon did great against Artest and Battier, however he just couldn’t carry the entire offensive load AND take care of things on the defensive end either.

The question is…will we have 2 defensive stoppers on our roster, or on the floor together at the same time by the time the playoffs start? BC the Lakers do. If we are making our shots, we can beat anyone…however what happens when our shot isn’t falling? Let’s just hope that Greg, Pryz, and LMA can wipe the boards with Pau and Bynum when the time comes.

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 27, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions

Hey, I never said I was taking the Lakers lightly.

They are still loaded. That is why I don’t agree with a lot of BE comments about the Blazers having too much talent to give everyone playing time etc. If the Lakers can lose Ariza and Odom and still be in the WC race this year, and they can, it shows what depth can do for a team. They have two superstars, and a glut of talent around them that can be played in different combinations. Remember Vujucic and Farmar were key guys in their run to the Finals last year, and were warming the pine this year. If the Blazers can afford to sit talented guys, we’ll know we have arrived at a situation where it is possible for us to make the finals a few years in a row. Look at Boston, and how their lack of depth short circuited their repeat hopes, despite still having maybe the best starting five in the NBA pre-injuries.

My main point was only that Artest on the Lakers is not a reason to worry any more than we would worry about facing a very good team. He is not Roy-kryptonite as proved by the playoffs, and the Lakers finesse style is a better overall match-up for us than grinding it out with the Rockets, who had Battier to shut down Outlaw, and Scola to shut down Aldridge, thus denying us a consistent second and third scorer. With Outlaw in the game with Roy against the Lakers, I think Kobe may have to defend Roy, and Artest Outlaw, if TO is playing SF. On the other hand if Roy is SF, and Rudy is SG, Kobe has to spend some energy chasing Rudy. The good news is Miller will eat them alive while all this is happening. I think we match-up very well against the champs, and can’t wait to play them.

by wingzeta on Jul 27, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for the clarification then

Hmm…as far as the too much talent for such limited playtime…I will say that is one reason why adding veterans and experienced players is such a valuable thing for our team. A vet can contribute in many ways, but their learning curve isn’t stunted by having them sit, where as having a lot of talented players whose potential overshadows their current skill level sit on the bench can effect their progression or lack of.

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 29, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions

so happy

w/ Artest in LA… lol

thanks

The Princess of Blazersedge

Sports do not build character. They reveal it. - Casey Dillon Stengel

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 27, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions

i completly agree... artest cannot stop roy. AT ALL

dont think it puts blaz ahead of lakers though.

by mandoman10 on Jul 28, 2009 1:07 AM PDT reply actions

I didn't watch the series, so I wonder

whom Roy guarded on the other side of the ball? If it was a hard assignment, then that speaks to Roy’s greatness. But if the assigment wasn’t too challenging, then consider Roy having to defend Kobe while being defended by Artest. That’s going to be kind of exhausting.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Jul 28, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions

you didn't watch the series?

I’m sorry to hear you were in acoma / under heavy fire fighting for our freedom / …. is there actually a third reason sufficient to miss this the blazers playoff series?

by lurtsman on Jul 28, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions

artest is smarter than people give him credit for

when nate started rudy, artest exploited the mismatch. I think even though he’s a gunner, he still can make critical plays (i.e. basically game winning steal from roy in the backcourt, and steal from blake on critical fastbreak)

"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse

by appel82 on Jul 28, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions

you don't have to stop roy to beat the blazers

you just have to make sure he’s the only one who can score.

"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse

by appel82 on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

remember when that wasn't the case in 07/08?

man i miss those days sometimes.

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by Philthyanimal on Jul 29, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions

don't rec this post just because you WISH it were so.

Having Ron on the Lakers hurts us. Like some said, Kobe doesn’t have to cover Roy. Moreover, they have Artest AND Kobe on the court at the same time now. That hurts.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Jul 28, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions

so what you saying

is Artest FTW? Personally I think it’s a Fail but if you say it’s Epic we will have to Book It….

"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"

by Eat Politicians on Jul 28, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Batum will guard Kobe

Roy will guard Artest, which he can do. The Lakers have lost a piece of their championship puzzle with Ariza, and picked up Ron, so it’s about even. The Lakers are still a championship caliber team, no doubt, but they didn’t suddenly become last year’s Rockets by adding one player from the Rockets, and I’m not sure last years Rockets could beat the Blazers again if they played another series. My point was “Artest to Lakers” is not a big deal, as some have made it out to be. “Artest and Scola to Lakers” would be a problem if they didn’t give anyone up.

by wingzeta on Jul 28, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions

it's a chemistry thing

look I get that, on paper, Artest to the l*kers looks great. Just like Z-bo, on paper, looks like a good PF. However I’m telling you right now before the season even starts the Artest and Kobe cannot play together for long. They are both from the same Mental Timber. L*kers management will figure this out and Artest will be gone….otherwise they are doomed…

"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"

by Eat Politicians on Jul 28, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions

i dunno..

see i disagree. phil has shown that with a strong vocal leader he could keep rodman under control for several years. I know ron’s a different type of craz but he’s mellowed a bit and i think with kobe out there he’ll stay under control. On defense they are a great combo for opposing 2’s / 3’s. For offense, Artest is another option although he takes ill advised shots. He’s a double edged sword. I definitely think he’s a short term upgrade over Ariza and they will be better with Ron Ron.

To Wingzeta: they don’t need Scola although they’d certainly take him. The lakers have all sorts of height with Odom (if he returns), Gasol & Bynum. That’s a formidable front line and with the triangle they could play with Odom at PG-F and have 3 7 footers on the floor with kobe and artest. that’s just scary.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Jul 28, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed on Scola,

I was just referring to his defense of LMA, which was very good, but Gasol has also played well against LMA at times, though LMA had a big game last time we played the Lakers. I think my point was just that by adding one guy from the Rockets, the Lakers hadn’t turned themselves into the bad match-up for us that the Rockets were, but maybe if they added two of the guys we had a lot of trouble with, it might start to be a concern. I could have said Battier, but Scola was a problem for the Blazers on both offense and defense. One thing we know about the Lakers is that they play enough defense to win, but only if they are having trouble outscoring you, which is their first love. That’s why we have a better chance with them than the Rockets, who try to slow us down from the tip.

As far as Artest’s mental health, I think he turned the corner a while ago. I wouldn’t count him out. He knows Kobe is in charge, and he is looking for a ring to cap his career.

by wingzeta on Jul 28, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions