Miller, Blake and Bayless: How Will This Sort Out?
by Ben Golliver on Jul 24, 2009 1:49 PM PDT
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PrintIf today's reports are true, the Blazers now have something of a log jam at the point guard position. Andre Miller is a durable, reliable, high-minute player, Steve Blake has succeeded in both starting and backup roles, and Jerryd Bayless played relatively few minutes as a rookie backup last year and is itching to see increased playing time.
Can the Blazers keep all three? Would they want to? Would all three guys be cool with that?
Keep in mind:
- Andre Miller is rumored to have been guaranteed two years on his deal, earning roughly $7 million a year.
- Steve Blake is in the last year of his deal that will pay him $4 million this year.
- Jerryd Bayless is in the second year of his rookie contract, earning $2.1 million this year.
Please answer the poll question and discuss who you think will start and get the minutes.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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Bayless as stash
He’s not going to like it, but with any luck at all, he’ll be getting minutes in a lot of blowouts. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
I still wonder...
if it’s possible that Blake and Outlaw go out, with Hinrich coming to Blazers.
They wouldn’t do that — would they? Or is that too much to give up?
You bet. I'll bet. Can you say, "caricature"?
Consolidation.
I could have sacrificed goin' out
To think my homies who did it, I used to joke about
From now on I'ma use self control instead of birth control
Cause $315 ain't worth your soul
$315 ain't worth your soul
$315 ain't worth it
The oregional take was
trade for the pg sign the forward now with Miller basically on board perhaps a sign & trade for Lee or someone else is in the works for the same players we where going to give up oregionally Blake & Outlaw
by DephlatorMouse on Jul 24, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
MAYBE!!!
We just took the last peice that New york was holding out for …. .that was preventing them from agreeing to the sign and trade…. i.e. they were holding out to try to trade for andre? and now that we snatched him up…. we’ll force their hand kinda like we did utah? (despite utah having a well skrew you too attitude about it) new york on the other hand…. has 0 leverage…. their team sucks big fat pig toes.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
aside from the pieces we want ..... eke
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
to me it is the writing on the wall
that Bayless is not developing like the Blazers hoped. they might keep him one more year, if they truely believe in him, but more possibly I think he will be traded while is value is still high in the league. Miller starts, Blake backs him up. That is a good PG duo for the next year or two.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
No way.
Most teams like to have a young PG waiting in the wings with big upside. That goes doubly for the Blazers considering Miller is an old man. You couldn’t find a cheaper, harder working, more upside PG prospect than Bayless. He is literally perfect for that role.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Not so sure
“You couldn’t find a cheaper, harder working, more upside PG prospect than Bayless.”
I bet the Blazers could find one in the next few drafts.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
I have to disagree
Bayliss is extremely athletic, hard-working and has shown he is willing to accept a role (Summer league this year, he cut back his driving and tried to facilitate offense instead).
PG is the most important and difficult position to play/fill and in the NBA, it’s even more obvious. Name one team who is successful that doesn’t have a great PG.
I see Bayliss potentially being a TJ Ford type player, or a Ramon Sessions, maybe not a typical pass-first player, but he’s deadly and if he continues to improve, he could be vital. Maybe not to the Blazers though.
Look @ Rudy. He’s got great potential but of course, the Blazers have the leash on extra tight. Not the best place to grow talent at the PG position, because you’re compared to Brandon Roy.
I strongly disagree
with the notion that PG is the most important and difficult position to play/fill in the NBA. PGs are important, and the Blazer’s greatest current area of need. However, there is nothing more important than having a good post player, both offensively and defensively. Unless you have the GOAT on your squad, you NEED someone in the post more than anything else.
by samuelleejackson on Jul 24, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
You've never actually played PG have you?
It’s the most education intensive job in the NBA to do it successfully. You can disagree, but even NBA players agree that’s the hardest position to play.
Post Player?
Name a top five team with a good post player, old school, its a new age in the NBA!!
How about both the teams in the finals...
That’s about as top 5 as you can get. Howard and Gasol (I know, I know…he’s an “L” word) are both outstanding post players. Pau is more a high post than a true banger but a post none the less.
It is a new age though and the traditional positions can be thrown out the window many times. Point Forwards and Power Forwards that can shoot the 3… Score first Point Guards… Our BRoy who can play 1,2 or 3 depending on the situation. Times have definately changed in the League.
The NBA Champions...
this year (who shall remain nameless) didn’t have a great point guard… The Michael Jordan era Bulls certainly didn’t have a great PG… The Cleveland Cavaliers don’t have a great PG… The Larry Bird Celtics didn’t have a great PG… I know it’s not easy to be an NBA PG but there is a deeper pool of small, athletic guys than there is of big athletic guys. Therefore I think Bayless is very replaceable. His set of skills is all over the D league, Europe and the NCAA…imo.
If we can upgrade at the back up 4 by trading Bayless and Outlaw it may be for the best to make the move. For me it would hurt more to lose Outlaw than Bayless because we have more invested in him and, although it’s not the popular opinion, I think Outlaw actually does fill a roll on the Blazers where Bayless doesn’t…. and I like Travis.
Triangle Offense.
The NBA champions this year were coached by a certain man who doesn’t run the offense through a traditional PG. Same goes for the Michael Jordon era Bulls.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
So?
It’s not like the Blazers have been running a traditional PG-heavy offense either. The main ball handler was Roy, and the offense was predicated on P&R/post-up and spacing. Unfortunately, the blazers offense is not so great in terms of motion, complex plays, multiple picks, etc., and there are very few running opportunities. The PG really doesn’t have to be that great.
That’s one more reason why I thought Jason Kidd would be wasted on this team.
Early points
The nice thing about Miller is that he can move the ball up the floor rapidly and smoothly transition into the set offense. I would expect more early points from Miller than from Blake, or Bayless (who while fast is still a little wild).
my main knock on blake a while back was that he always took 6-10 seconds to reach his 3 pt line.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
That's sort of true,
still not even close to being similar to Phil Jackson’s system.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You just stated WHY the Blazers need a good PG
Not good with motion, running complex players and multiple picks, because their best scorer was also one of the best ball handlers. (Roy)
You take the need for him to distribute away and put in a PG who can run plays, create for teammates and suddenly you now let Roy score.
Blazers used him to generate their offense because he was their best choice.
Is that "mythical guru" the only guy allowed to do that?..
…Phil Jackson, yeah I said his name, is a good coach…overrated in my opinon but good. He doesn’t have a patent on non-traditional offense. A traditional PG is important in some systems and not so much in others. Roles as not as defined as they once were. Saying we need a traditional PG to win while the l*kers use Fisher is discounting our talent at other positions…imo.
"The Larry Bird Celtics didn't have a great point guard"??????
Did you never see Dennis Johnson play? Sorry if this comes off as rude but that is a HOF point guard.One of the best defensive point guards of all time.
He did it! Yes he did!
he started his career as a scorer
then later became a defensive specialist. he was never a fantastic distributor as bird played a sort of point forward for the celtics.
the point stands though. as great a player as dennis johnson was he was not the mythical “true point” that so many people feel you have to have on your team despite the crazy number of titles one by teams without them.
Ainge and DJ were just "guards"
they were interchangeable, neither was considered a PG
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Great, Great Player but...
Not a traditional PG… Great Defender, one of the headiest and classiest guys I’ve seen play but still… not really a traditional PG… and it’s never rude to stick up for DJ. I loved watching him play clear back to his days with the Sonics.
My point remains the same though. In todays NBA you don’t necessarily need a 10 assist per game PG. Play makers come in all shapes and sizes now days and the traditional roles are a little blurred.
Triangle offense, anyone?
That offensive scheme negates the requirement of having a PG, since the offense initiates through the PF/C at the high post. Jordan, and Kobe can both play the point in that case.
The Lakers have Fisher, a good 3 pt shooter, which is required in the triangle, to spread the floor and allow room at the top of the key. Bulls had Kerr.
The Cavaliers have Mo Williams, a better than average PG.
Celtics? Ever heard of Gerald Henderson? He played in a system geared away from him, but the 1st year he was traded from the Celtics to Seattle he averaged 7.1 assists and 13.4 PPG. He also shot nearly 48%.
Huhuhuhu?!?
“PG is the most important and difficult position to play/fill and in the NBA, it’s even more obvious. Name one team who is successful that doesn’t have a great PG”
Lakers/Magic final. Neither Derek nor Rafer were among the top half of starting PGs this year.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
It is a hard position to fill.
If it wasn’t we probably wouldn’t be signing a 33 year old Andre Miller, who happens to be the best PG Portland’s had since… Damon Stoudamire?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Most positions are hard to fill with quality though.
Most NBA champions also have a less than stellar starter at one or two of their positions as well. Last year this happened to be PG, but in the past it has been EVERY position at one time or another.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Damon was not distributer like MilIer
I’d say Andre will be the best Blazer PG since…Rod Strickland
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's funny that he's probably our best PG in like 10 years...
and we still aren’t satisfied.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Bedgers will warm up to MIller
at least most of ’em, anyway
McMillian seems to like him, even though Andre probably couldn’t beat Nate in a 3pt shooting contest, and Sarge’s system is geared towards the corner trey
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Right, and both of those systems are geared using either the Triangle, or a Point Foward
Hedo? And Phil Jackson?
There’s a hole in your parachute now.
Not to mention
The use the Magic got from Jameer Nelson before he was injured.
and the Blazer system is geared toward a certain "point" guard named Brandon Roy
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 24, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
and now we've got two creators
much better. Better for Brandon, better for the big guys who will get fed more often
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
pooh jeter
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If they had lost confidence in Bayless they would have gone after Sessions or one of the other young PGs....
……I think KP is trying to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to improve for the short term and he still likes Bayless for the long term.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nailed it.
KP and staff have a nice track record of recognizing talent so far. He trusts himself that Bayless may still be an excellent PG. He is still very, very young. If that idea wasn’t firmly planted into his head, we would have Kirk Hinrich already.
Exactly.
And it’s not like he hadn’t seen Bayless extensively before last week in Summer league. They new exactly what they had, even if some of us didn’t.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
What about Miller in the second unit?
It seems like he would be a better fit in the second unit than next to Brandon…
I didn't mean to turn you on
I don't think he will
The big reason we were pursuing Turkoglu is because we wanted another creator in the starting lineup with Roy. Miller fills that role admirably, so I don’t think it makes sense to bring him off the bench just because he doesn’t shoot threes as well as Blake.
With Miller starting, our frontcourt will get LOTS more easy opportunities at the rim, and Brandon won’t have to work as hard on offense because somebody else can capably initiate the attack.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
7mil for a backup PG?
There are cheaper options.
Garden Variety Internet Denizen
WORD UP.STAY.FRESCO
Miller will be most valuable with the bigs on the floor
having Outlaw, Martell, and Batum spotting up won’t hurt either.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 24, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Just makes more sense
He’s a much better fit in the second unit. Roy is the slasher among the starters, and he needs good shooters to pitch the ball out to — thus, Blake. The second unit needs that kind of drive-and-kick point guard, and so far Bayless has only shown the drive.
That being said, I wouldn’t be shocked if Miller ultimately got more minutes than Blake.
Chemisrty?
Miller and Blake are both above average, and I would be very happy with that backcourt…. but who starts? Blake fits with the starters, Miller fits the second unit. Will Miller be happy in that role? I have my doubts. Nate wanted veteran experience, now that he has it can he manage a veteran ego?
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions
Miller starts
I know we all love Blake but Miller is a far superior playmaker and defender.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 24, 2009 2:01 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Also
Miller offers what hedo would have brought to the starting lineup, another guy other than Roy who can break down the D off the dribble and hen dish. If webster returns to start Millers poor 3pt shooting won’t matter.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Absolutely
I just think that Miller, along side a second unit full of three point shooters would be devastating
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Got me thinking
I like Miller + Webster. I like Blake + Batum. Doesn’t really matter if its first or second unit.
IE: The starting SF might determine the starting PG
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 24, 2009 3:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
another guy other than Roy who can break down the D off the dribble
but think about it, if both Roy and Miller leave the floor and Blake and Rudy come in, who’s going to initiate the offense. Or will they just run Rudy and Martell off of screens and use Blake to hit them for rhythm jumpers?
I like the idea of Roy creating for the starters, and Miller running fast break and lobbing to Rudy. The second unit may not be as potent with Steve as it would be with Andre. It’s important to win every quarter, and not just to have a unit that “looks good” coming out to start each half
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
depends on how you initiate offense
Rudy can be very good on the pick and roll/2 man game dumping into the post and taking the kick out
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 24, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Rudy ran that curl play with LMA on the left block
and he was clever hooking post entry passes into Greg along the right baseline
But I’m glad we have another PG who can distribute, it would’ve been dicey expecting Rudy to run the show when Brandon and Blake were resting next year (like it sounded that Nate had been contemplating…) Rudy doesn’t really have the handles to play PG, and Bayless wasn’t going to be the answer, either. With Miller and Blake in there 100% of the time it lets Rudy and Brandon do what they do best, and not have to worry about getting all the other guys involved so much
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I challenge you
to name one team that benches it’s best pg.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 25, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Far superior?
Debateable. At least we could say that there strenghts are dissimilar, and that could be a very good thing.
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Miller will start, but who plays the remainder of the 4th quarter will depend on who is playing best and the matchups. Nate seems to love to do this, and the flexibility is great since we also have it at the C and SF positions as well.
Flexibility is great...
I like the idea of having a starting caliber PG like Blake as the back up. If Miller is having an off night or the matchup dictates then Blake can take over. Bayless is not ready to be the main backup PG. Maybe someday but not now.
like I said we all love blake
but Andre is a better player all around. The only place that Blake exceeds his talent is at the 3pt line. This notion that Blake is the most underrated point in the NBA is the work of the Trailblazers staff. Blake has reached his maximum potential and he will make an awesome reserve point gueard in the league.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 25, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't care who starts
To me Blake never did a good job of getting Greg"The Allfather" Oden the ball on the pick and roll. I want Miller playing with Oden whether that be second or first unit.
by eclecticspider on Jul 24, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Could it be??!!??
Has KP redeemed himself here? Was he just waiting for Bayless to prove a worthless pointguard at summer league to make a move? If he trades bayless before his stock completely plummets then KP is my hero once again.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Redemption wasn't necessary
Donald Sterling needs basketball redemption. So do Kevin McHale and Isiah Thomas. But not KP.
A three-pointer is not a "triple." A triple is a hit in baseball.
A three-pointer is not a "trey." A trey is either an ESPN sportscaster or something that bad spellers eat cafeteria food on. - Dave on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 PM PDT
There are diferent levels of redemption
KP just proved that he is capable of building a championship level team. He had proven that he could build a team from the bottom up to the playoffs, but this offseason had me wondering about his ability to see talent at the veteran level, and his willingness to make the trades that get us the pieces we need(i.e. last years trade deadline). He got lucky when hedo turned his overpriced offer down and now he has found a good fit for the Blazers. Now he just needs to trade Bayless while the hype is still there and find a point guard for the future.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 25, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, that must be it
Phantom of the Opera-like, he has been waiting in a dark corner in the Rose Garden rafters for Bayless to fail catastrophically so we would all see what fools — fools! — we’d been to doubt him.
(cue lightning, evil laughter)
Welcome to Portland Dre!
A month ago, I hated this move. But after seeing Rex in Vegas, I thnk that his value is in trade, not in our backcourt. Miller is the type of player that KP should love. He played 4 yrs in college and took his team to a Final Four. Our effieciency at the 1 will be off the charts (offensively). Rip City and Beat L.A.
I hate to say it
but I think that the Blazers trade Blake before the season starts. A combination of his contract (one year left is appealing to most teams), the Bayless ‘potential’ factor and just a gut feeling.
I hate to say it because Blake got traded then came back to Portland – he’s a good guy and I don’t like seeing the Blazers trade him again. But that’s the business of basketball.
You think we did this move just for the Blake to Miller upgrade then?
I’m not so sure that’s it. Miller is going to cost us 7 million. Blake only cost us 4 million. I’m not sure that we paid an extra 3 million for a slight starter upgrade. I think we paid the extra 7 million to have a good starter and a good backup.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
I am having similar thoughts
Perhaps with Miller being an attack-the-rim style of point guard would make him a better mentor for Bayless who’s strengths seem to lie in a similar area?
Able but unwilling
I think it doesn't make sense to trade Blake
If you trade him, now you’re taking away one of your more consistent shooters and now you have 2 pgs in Miller and Bayless who can’t shoot. You hold on to Blake and Bayless, have Rex sit another year and go from there. Or you turn around and offer Bayless and Outlaw to Detroit for Prince.
I want Greg Oden to tuck me in at night and tell me stories about the old times
only if KP gets his socks blown off by a deal
Blake will not be shopped, I expect him to get extended after Roy/LMA
it’s not all about business with KP, culture and fit are primo. And guys like Steve and Joel don’t drop out of every treetop that gets shaken
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Still Think Miller Is Too Old And Slow On Defense
But at least there are some positives:
1. Speed Up Pace
2. Pick and Roll With Oden
3. Alley Oops Galore
Blazers are geared for fast-break
I wish they could get someone to allow a fast break. The half court set is okay, but the Blazers have such great potential with Outlaw, LA, Roy, even Oden, to run in a fast break offense, at least some of the time.
Add in a player like Miller who can dish in transition and you have athletic wing players and that’s the Suns with more size and defense.
Not sure if it's a "logjam"
3 players, only two of which are true point guards. Not really a logjam to me. Bayless’ value seems to have plummeted after he didn’t really answer questions about his ability to play point. Not getting any bites after he’s been offered for trades apparently.
Bayless seems like a Stephon Curry type player, small athletic guard, but not as good a 3 ball as Curry, but a much better approach to the rim. He would thrive in a Golden State or New York system, maybe they’ll take him…
they might not all be point guards but they all want minutes. minutes at the 2 are fully booked, so by default any minutes JB gets are at the 1.
by Ben Golliver on Jul 24, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
D league
send J Bay down and let him get all the PT he can
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
ouch
not even I am that harsh
We’ve seen this “movie” before with Sergio. KP is not going to deal Bayless unless he gets (what he considers) fair value. Portland needs a 3rd PG, and Jerryd has a cheap contract. If Rex has to sit around and collect splinters while playing garbage-time minutes or providing practice fodder and insurance in case of injury, then that’s what he’ll have to do—he’s under contract
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We had to pay SAC to take Sergio's contract.
His contract was around 1 million, and we gave them a bunch extras (cash?) with him, and what did we get in return? We moved up a couple spots in the second round. KP didn’t “pritchslap” anyone on that deal, he cut his losses. Also Bayless isn’t exactly “insurance”, since he has not shown he can play the point. We need insurance against that insurance. A guy like Pooh Jeter, who can run the point in a pinch would be a better example of “insurance”, and we can do better than that at this level. Bayless doesn’t have a lot of value right now, so I think the way he would go, is in a trade coupled with another guy like Outlaw. Otherwise, I agree that KP may wait, because he doesn’t want to get burned twice in a row.
well, we know that KP can be stubborn
he’s not going to just give Bayless (or Outlaw) away, even if the “subtraction” might bring a better role player with less “upside”
I guess we’ll find out how “high” KP is on Jerryd, but like you I’d like to see one more “consolidation” trade involving Trout and Rex, then that would clear the way for a #3 PG like Jeter
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I voted Other
I think we are trading Miller and Bayless for Hinrich now! Not sure how Ben didn’t have that option on the list.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
because you probably can't trade a guy you just signed for a while
I don’t know if it’s different because he’s an UFA, but with Milsap we couldn’t trade him until Dec. 15th
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Was joking anyway, didn't know that rule though, interesting.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
I should have picked up on that when I saw the exclamation point
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
My prediction
Blake, Travis are expiring contracts and both are decent players, they will be traded for a backup power forward to round out the roster. I’d like us to sign a veteran 3rd string pg as well.
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Backup power forward
Which backup power forward would you trade for that’s better than Travis Outlaw?
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
One that can rebound and adaqueately play post defense for power forward
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Names plz
Or are you talking NBA Live Create-a-Player style.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
Thought you meant prefer over Outlaw
Not that many options right now, since Bass, Millsap, Sheed, et all, are off the market
I’d definitely ask Golden State about Brendan Wright though. If Gerald Wallace is at all available I dangle Steve, Travis, for him. He can start and three and play the four proficiently. David Lee doesn’t play defense, but I think having a true four is important.
My rationale for trading Outlaw is that Batum is more important in the long run and playing time is important to his development. If Webster’s foot is still in pieces I’m fine with keeping Outlaw. But we risk losing him for nothing next season.
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My point
is just what you stated: Not that many options right now. I’m all for trading Outlaw and Blake, but not for a backup power forward. I can’t think of any power forwards out there who are an obvious upgrade over Travis Outlaw at backing up LaMarcus Aldridge. If we’re going to be getting rid of Outlaw and Blake, getting a starting SF like G.Wallace sounds like a good call. But if we’re just filling out the minutes that LA won’t be playing, I say let Pendergraph or Joel Freeland do it.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
Well apparently
Pendergraph is going to play the 5 on the Blazers and Joel Freeland is not coming next year.
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i think
Pendergraph and Cunningham were taken to back-up LA.
by where's billy ray on Jul 24, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Blazers scout Chad Buchanan on an Interview with Ben
I think he’s going to have to play 5 on our level. I think there’s some 4s that are going to be really hard matchups for him. Guys who can take him away from the basket will be a hard matchup for him. His lateral quickness guarding the ball is not a strength of his right now. You couldn’t see that last night because he could just lean on Joey Dorsey, he does a good job getting low with a strong base. You take him away from the basket and the quick moves are hard for him.
He’s a guy that will have to play a lot of five for us. There are going to be some fives that are too big for him to guard. All the backups and third string 5s in our league — he will be fine against those guys. He’s not capable of guarding Dwight Howard or Yao Ming or someone like that.
As far as Cunningham he seems like a Travis-eque tweener but he definitely seems like a small forward to me.
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Ronny Turiaf
There’s a name, we already know that Brandon would be “down” with it
Outlaw for Turiaf? Maybe not an equitable deal talent-wise, but a much better roster fit for the playoffs, IMO
The way I look at it, KP has at least four “ranges” of salary targets for the backup PF
1.9mil trade exception (from the Diogu deal)
2.143mil Bayless’ contract
3.6 mil Outlaw’s contract
5.7+ mil Bayless+Outlaw
Keep in mind that KP may not have used up “all” of the 7.7mil cap-space on MIller (3 years at 21 mil could be structured 6-7-8) so that gives KP the flexibility to add another veteran at pretty near any salary between 2-6 mil
So the list of “who” he could bring in to play behind LMA could be in the dozens of names, if he can find a willing trade partner. And we know that Outlaw and Bayless both have at least modest trade value around the league
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
if 14 is guaranteed, and 7 is in the option year
then 6/7/8 doesn’t add up….
also, the Diogu trade exception is $2.9M
last – Pendergraph is probably as good as any other backup PF for a specific role – playing physical with 4/5 “tweeners”
Otherwise, Travis gets the call as a matchup nightmare for opposing reserve 4’s
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 24, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I still don't think KP maxed himself all the way up to the cap
Pendergraph may be “as good” as other players his age, but he won’t be ready to contribute minutes in the playoffs, or fill in for LMA/Greg/Joel if one of them were to have to miss a chunk of the season
What do you think about Jeff Foster? He could be “had” for Travis and Jerryd and he’d provide experience, toughness and insurance against injury at the 4/5. This team could use a bad@ss like Foster coming off the bench in the postseason
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
we were the best rebounding team in the league last year
and outlaw played 25 minutes a game. doesn’t really seem like a problem. also outlaw’s strength is the mismatch he creates but that always will cut both ways.
those regular season rebounding stats
didn’t “carry over” to the Houston series. The post season is a whole ‘nuther animal. A healthy Oden will help, but one more veteran big man isn’t a lot to ask for…as long as he’s better than Ruffin or Diogu
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
other
I think they will look for a package deal involving Blake and Outlaw, but if they don’t come up with anything special, they’ll go into training camp as-is and see if Bayless/Webster/Oden make any of Blake/Outlaw/Pryzbilla more expendable by the trade deadline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I&feature=channel_page
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 24, 2009 2:14 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I would keep all three
If Bayless could handle sitting for one more year. I’d like him to learn from Miller this year and then back him up next year.
I'd like him to start
by beating out Andre Miller and Steve Blake for the job. If he’s a dope NBA point guard, that shouldn’t be impossible.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
Bayless gets traded --
Before or during the 1st half of the season. Jeter becomes 3rd PG and will learn enough to replace Blake after next year, unless he learns so fast that Blake (and I hate to see him go) goes out in trade at the deadline.
by kacee on Jul 24, 2009 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ready, Set, Go!
A minimum contract for 2 years and if he works out, he’ll be quite a bargain.
Yep
Pooh was fairly impressive at the point in Vegas. Bayless looked like a two. He should refine the two position on another team where he’ll get minutes.
Pooh was only impressive, because Bayless was so awful.
Pooh did what any better than average 4 year college PG would do. He’s not going to take anyone’s NBA job, but he could be serviceable as a third string guy, who is there in case of injury.
who is pooh?
I keep seeing a fat ol yellow bear wit ha red shirt running around looking for honey screaming awww shucks.
that pooh?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
interesting stat from Blazersedge twitter feed
Miller shot 409 FA’s last season.
Blake shot…..75.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
sorry
mis typed that, it is FTA.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I'm glad to hear that
For a second, I thought you meant Free Agents. That’s one way to reduce the supply.
by Timmay! on Jul 24, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
that doesn't surprise me
Miller attacks the rim and blake does not. Well miller doesn’t necessarily attack it, but he isn’t scared of it like Blake is…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller becomes the 3rd more-or-less dependable scorer
That’s what was missing last year; had to depend on Outlaw’s big 4th quarter and while he did great in some games, it is hard to always be Mr. Clutch off the bench.
Ah, but the trade-off
Andre Miller 3 pointers made last season: 15
Steve Blake: 140
That’s also his highest 3 point total (Miller’s that is) in 5 seasons.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
so
we actually have options at the point now? Whoduthunk?
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
They are both on the same team
Seems like a positive to me.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Oh, I agree, the Blazers have a great PG rotation now
Just mentioning that Miller fits certain weaknesses, but takes away from a strength in the starting lineup.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I like millers game
I think he is an excellent choice…I don’t really see blake or bayless going anywhere unless one of them demands a trade. I figure Bayless has a another year on the bench and then we will see something happen. Probably Blake will leave and it will be Bayless/Miller and some scrub as backup.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:27 PM PDT reply actions
Trade
Bayless and Outlaw would fit well in the NY Knicks system. Does Portland still have the capability to do a lopsided sign and trade or is that gone after the Miller signing becomes offical?
Posted this in the other thread but everybody left
PER differential vs. opposing PGs: +3.8, tied for third among point guards
Opposing PG PER: 17.1, Sixteenth in league
Net Points per 100 Possessions: +1.8 on court, -3.4 off court, +5.2 overall, ninth among point guards
Rebound percentage: 8.9%, fifteenth among point guards
Combined "close" and "dunk" assists: 351, third among point guards
Offensive win shares: 6.1, sixth among point guards
Miller is an average rebounder for his position, and though I couldn’t find any site that would let me sort eFG% by position, his 48% eFG% is slightly below average for PGs if my recollections serve me correctly (the fact that he doesn’t shoot threes well or often has a deleterious impact here).
His defensive statistics are nothing to write home about: middle of the pack in PER against, slightly below average in defensive win shares. It’s worth pointing out that Philly’s defense gets 3.7 points worse per 100 possessions when Miller is off the floor, and their defensive rebounding percentage improves by 5.8%, which is very much on the high end for point guards.
My favorite statistic on this whole list is the combined "close" and "dunks" number: 351. The only two point guards in the LEAGUE who generated more close and dunk assists last season were Deron Williams and Steve Nash. Miller had more than Rondo, more than Chris Paul, more than Derrick Rose…and he was throwing passes to Dalembert and Young for the majority of the season. This guy is going to generate a ton of easy opportunities for LMA and Greg.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
that last paragraph
makes me happy…tell me more.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's one for you
Miller was the only point guard in the league who had more “close” and “dunk” assists combined than “jumpers” and “three-pointers” assists combined.
Philly had nobody who could shoot, so opposing defenders were free to sag into the lane and dare Miller to kick it to jump shooters, and he was still threading the needle for inside baskets and for dunks.
Can you imagine what he’ll be able to do if he has the option to kick it out to Rudy and Martell chilling at the three point line or dish it to LMA or Greg inside?
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been told
we have people who can dunk on or team…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
here's the other stats I posted in the other thread
True Shooting %: .548, 21st among PGs (Blake .557, Sergio .491)
PER 18.71, 12th among PGs (Blake 14.49, Sergio 12.51)
WP48 0.184 (as of midseason, I can’t find the end of season data). Blake was at 0.144. Miller’s WP48 would have ranked 3rd on the Blazers last year after Joel and Roy.
WARP: 9.9 (Blake’s was 3.3, albeit in quite a few less minutes)
2 year adjusted plus minus: 5.06 (yikes). His raw plus minus was good last year- looks like his adjusted p/m dings him for playing with good players?
Statistical plus/minus: +3.61 (that’s really good— 2nd on Philly behind Iggy; would have been 2nd on Portland behind Roy).
Overall, the advanced stats like him a lot.
TS is pretty impressive when you consider his nonexistant 3pt shot
He’s just old and not that great of a defender. But it’s not that bad of a deal and gives us a nice expiring contract in a few years as well. Not perfect but an alright move that might work better in person than on paper.
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yeah, that's more or less my take
Not a home run, but the right length (3rd year being a team option is key) and a decent value for a good player.
I've been waiting for a baseball analogy
It seems like half the fanbase has been waiting for KP to hit a home run. I’ll be happy with a double, and i think this fits.
by Corvid on Jul 24, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jake, I can't live in a world where you like something.
Love, TheTinfoil
...refusing Coolio's sloppy seconds since 2001...
Now accessible for R rated comments at thetinfoil@gmail.com
by TheTinfoil on Jul 24, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm starting to get a little annoyed at your characterization of me
I was calling the Blazers a top 4 seed last year when most folks still thought we were fighting for a 6-8 seed. I picked us to beat the Rockets. I called the Blazers the 2nd best team in the West for a good portion of last season.
Keep all 3
This just shows that Bayless isn’t ready and might not be ready for 2 years. I don’t think that’s a big deal because he is so young. If someone wants to say he needs playing time to get better, I say he needs to earn it. The Blazers are serious about making an impact in the post season and the Blazers were weak at point guard last year. They can’t wait around for Bayless and Blake will always be an excellent backup or suitable starter. Blake is safe.
by tominhawaii on Jul 24, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Well-put
My thoughts exactly
by 2005TelfairJerseyForSale on Jul 24, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope Nate will utilize his PG rotation
Miller and Blake have contrasting styles that we can exploit in certain matchups. Obviously, if we’re playing a team that gives up a ton of 3s then we play Blake and if the team gives up lots of FTAs we play Miller. I’m just worried that Nate will figure out his rotation in training camp and then hardly ever deviate from it.
“Ok, it’s the 9 minute mark of the 1st, time for substitutions”
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Logjam
The logjam is entirely based upon the attitude of Bayless. Frankly, his skill level in the NBA is below Blake and Miller, and most PG rotation players on good NBA teams. If Bayless wants more playing time to given to him, there is a logjam. Otherwise, the distinct between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd PGs are clear.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
All skate!
I think we will likely keep all 3 this year, with Blake backing up when the game is on the line, and Bayless coming in for garbage time.
At the end of this upcoming season, it will have sorted itself out, and we will either trade Bayless or let Blake walk. I doubt we do this in the middle of the season by the trade deadline, but if things are locked in, it could happen.
Of couse, I say we offer Bayless, Outlaw, and maybe $25 million of Paul Allen’s money to break Rubio free.
If only that pesky CBA would get out of the way and allow it
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I am resisting a knee jerk reaction
And im just going to wait and see how this all plays out. Maybe a PG who is as old as i am, and who is known more for his post up game than his 3pt shot is exactly what the team needs…….
Im in wait and see mode now. Ill save my strong opinions about this alleged aquisition for 20 games into the season.
I am sad that the new OLP album is wimpy, and not even in a peppy Fall Out Boy kind of way just a depressing way
by SuperDave on Jul 24, 2009 2:49 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
We will certainly have to tweak the offense
to take advantage of Miller’s strengths
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
The oregional take
was sign the forward then trade for the pg. Now with Miller basically on board perhaps the revearse. Sign Miller with cap space & then a sign & trade for Lee or someone else is in the works for the same players we where going to give up oregionally Blake/Bayless & Outlaw Maybe Marty in the mix
We're exchanging Sergio for Miller...is that a bad thing?
Basically (salaries aside) we exchanged rotation guys of Sergio for Andre Miller. Look at the comparisons.
This is only anecdotal (any stats would be helpful):
Passing – Sergio good, Miller good
Pick and Roll – Sergio average, Miller good
3pt% – Sergio bad, Miller very bad
Scoring – Sergio bad, Miller average to good
Defense – Sergio bad, Miller bad
Experience – Sergio very bad, Miller great
So we exchanged an unexperienced back-up piont guard who couldn’t shoot for a decent (starter in this league) point guard with tons of experience. Why is this a bad thing?
PER has to be useful...I'm sure it helped determine to keep Batum after Summer League
yes, Blake/Miller is better than Blake/Sergio
however, Miller might get the starting spot and many people are worried that his lack of 3 point shooting is going to make it very difficult for Roy to get good looks around the hoop.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
The way to offset that is Marty starting over Batman
That is if Batum doesn’t shot up with an improved shot or they don’t go small with the starting unit by shoving Rudy in there. Stranger things have happened, but for my money if Miller starts so does Marty.
by DephlatorMouse on Jul 24, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the defensive 3 seconds rule helped Roy get into the lane more often then
Rudy, Blake, Outlaw or Martell ever could. I just think having a decent (experienced) point guard who can consistently create shots for not only Roy, but LMA, Oden and everyone else is a good thing.
Weren’t we looking for a guy who can create shots outside of Roy? Doesn’t Miller’s playmaking skills make that possible? I mean seriously, what point guard is going to make Roy better? Isn’t a point guard that makes LMA and Oden better even better?
PER has to be useful...I'm sure it helped determine to keep Batum after Summer League
BTW, I am not personally sold on his fit...I'm asking becuase I don't know
PER has to be useful...I'm sure it helped determine to keep Batum after Summer League
"many people are worried"?
Let’s leave the worrying to the professionals. Blazers got a better player at a position where they could improve. I, for one, am hardly worried AM’s lack of 3 pt shooting will hurt the team, vs the improvement I expect.
by goblazer1 on Jul 24, 2009 4:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I would say that fans have just as much right to worry about their team
as the professionals do. We had an offense that was deadly partly because of the efficient 3 point shooting of Blake.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Keep all 3
Bayless rides bench this year and learns from a mentor more suited to his game, He plays backup next year and starts after that
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
Bayless role
Did Bayless come out early? Or was he a senior when he came to the NBA?
If he was an underclassman then I would expect two or three years on the bench before Bayless knew enough about the game to play effectively (at the pro level at least).
Bayless played 1 year of college ball
He was expected to be an immediate impact player and to be picked as high as #4, though there have always been concerns that he is a SG in a PG’s body. Thus, even during the draft process it was said that the team that picks him should have an SG with PG skills. It just so happens that Portland has that, which is why the pick made sense at the time.
Miller makes sense because he's better than Blake or Bayless
With Roy and Rudy I doubt there are any SG minutes available for Bayless. In all likelihood, Bayless will be competing with Blake for minutes.
Blake Start over Miller?
Come on, anyone who believes this can’t really believe it. I mean, I like Blake a lot too, but his career year (this year) is still worse than Miller’s worst year, his rookie year. I think they both will play a lot, but Miller will start. I mean a career 14.5, 7.5, and 4.2 player for this cheap . . . sign me up!
You know
The best part about this trade is that Miller looks a lot like Richard Pryor without a mustache…compare and contrast…
http://www.sportsonbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/andre_miller-arton21093-240×240.jpg (miller)
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Richard-Pryor_0.jpg (pryor)
by kajuayn on Jul 24, 2009 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
thank you
I thought I would make a fan post out of it…but i thought that it was skimpy on substance unless i did the entire team. Also, it was too close to my first names post. I cannot fill the sidebars with quasi quirky posts haha.
you should still totally find look-a-likes for the whole team
I’d love to see it & I think others would get a kick out of it as well… especially if you included cartoon look-a-likes =u)
by DephlatorMouse on Jul 24, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
hahah i like the
last part of the idea the most. Hopefully no one steals our thunder before i get this up, probably sometimes 2m morning
I don't see us being able to keep all 3...
Andre Miller is solid, I’d go as far as to say he’s a poor man’s Chauncey Billups. Which leaves us with a conundrum in the 2nd unit. Steve Blake, or Jerryd Bayless. Its either one or the other.
KP’s original plans were to sign a free agent, make a trade, then resign Roy and Aldridge to long term deals. We’re seeing the free agent signing, now we’re going to see the trade. I expect it to come for a starting SF, and it will include either Blake or Bayless, packaged with Outlaw and maybe 1 more. I am dreaming that we’ll be able to pull Tayshaun Prince away from Detroit for something of that sort, but chances of that happening are slim. Where do we go now? I wish I knew the answer…
2nd paragraph
I basically said just a few spots above so I totally agree. Por mans Billups I’d have to think about. I don’t remmember Chauncey posting people up & he shoots from deep WAAAAAY beter than Miller.
Chauncey posts smaller PGs up all the time
He’s also a better defender, although the margin between the two players is not as large as it used to be. The comparison is kind of valid in an obtuse kind of way.
Garden Variety Internet Denizen
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He also forgot that Sergio isn't on our team lol
Garden Variety Internet Denizen
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looks to me...
like the plan is to play Miller/Blake this year, let Blake walk when his contract expires, then play Miller/Bayless for a year, decide if Bayless is ready to start, and then make a decision about Miller’s option.
THIS GETS ME DROOLING WITH VISIONS OF DUNKS!
think about the lobs going to Oden especially but also Rudy, LMA, BROY
So Miller takes away Blake’s outside shooting, for a stretch. He also scores better, passes better, doesn’t turn it over (both Miller and Blake are tremendous assist-to-turnover types), and is one of the best lob tossers of the last 20 years. Because I’m a blogger, I think the lob was created in 1989.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Andre-Miller-as-a-Trail-Blazer?urn=nba,178657
Its A Fanshot by REP Thanks REP!
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by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:26 PM PDT reply actions
Welcome to Blazers edge.
I don’t see how you trade Bayless unless it’s for another young PG. The team option for Miller doesn’t exactly make me think the Blazers are thinking this is a super long term move. In two seasons you could be stuck with Blake and Mills.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 24, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless KP thinks Bayless is not a PG
Notice this Miller signing was after summer league. KP wanted to see how Bayless performed at PG. Looks like he was not too impressed.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 24, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure that Bayless' summer league=need for a new starting PG
He was not expected to start, so making a move to get a new starting PG does not really speak to Bayless’ performance.
I think KP thinks Miller is at this point the best move that can improve the team without a trade. Steve is and was better than Bayless, this acquisition isn’t about lack of faith in Bayless’ development, but making the team better in the immediate short term. Just looking at the rumored contract length and team option reinforces that notion. If we went after and signed Ramon Sessions, another young point guard, to a multi-year deal THEN you could definitely say that KP does not believe in Bayless as the future Blazer point. Signing a 33 year old to a two year rental however; does not.
Garden Variety Internet Denizen
WORD UP.STAY.FRESCO
I think Steve is to good a fit and to unattractive to other teams to trade.
Bayless is very attractive to other teams. If we were to trade one of our point guards I believe it would be Bayless. I think KP believes in Bayless plenty, just IF he didn’t it would be because he does not see him as a PG.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 24, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve is attractive to teams because of his expiring contract.
I’m not sure how attractive Bayless is to other teams considering the lack on the court production. He seems like a Ryan Anderson type throw in at this point than a substantial player getter.
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This was done to make Bayless expendable
he isn’t a Nate type PG.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I don't have a clue...
I voted that they’ll trade Bayless during the season, but who knows? It seems there are lots of questions about Bayless at the PG position. I suppose if he’s still on the team when the season starts they’ll give him a chance to beat out Blake for the back up PG position (I assume Miller will be the starter). If Bayless can’t beat out Blake, then I think they’ll trade him. I also assume Bayless has more trade value than Blake, so it would make more sense for him to be traded for that reason alone.
Yes to Pooh Jeter
And let’s stop talking about starter/sub or 1st and 2nd unit. The 2nd unit is a huge myth. With Nate and most other coaches it’s more about combining players on the court at different times in the game. Go back and look at the number of minutes last year where the entire “2nd unit” played together at the same time. It’s very few I am sure.
Miller and Blake provide complementary skills. Nate will use them strategically depending on the situation and who else he wants on the court at the time. I think we can accommodate both of them. Bayless, on the other hand, I think he is toast.
I think Pooh is a great PG
Basically, he is a better passing/creator than Bayless. But Bayless is a better scorer/drive to rim. We need passers because we have alot of scorers. Your right about Bayless probably being toast. Someone is toast for sure. Im sure we will all know soon.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Good thing we dont have Vinnie Del Negro as coach
Blake and Miller would play together heavy minutes.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 24, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
hahahahahah!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been a fan of Andre Miller's game
He makes his teammates better. He can create off the dribble. He puts pressure on the defense. He can and does push the ball up. He is a decent defender and adequate rebounder. He is very durable. He is not an All-Star point guard, but he doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective. I think he will do well here.
Steve Blake will battle Miller for the starting spot in the rotation in camp. I think Nate respects Steve too much to just hand the job to the new guy. That said, it’s my belief that Miller is the better player and will beat Blake out for the starting job. Blake will get all the minutes with the second unit, and will make that group much stronger.
Blake will not be traded. At the end of the season, I don’t think they’ll let Blake go, unless someone makes him an offer he can’t refuse that doesn’t make sense for them to match. Remember, Blake walked away from the starting job in Denver to re-sign with Portland because he believes in what the team is trying to do here. He knows the Blazers are on a championship track and wants to be a part of it, and I think KP will keep that covenant.
The team will continue to let Bayless develop. He may get minutes if someone goes down, but summer league proved once again he’s not ready to play point guard in the NBA. If we’re lucky he’ll be ready by Miller’s option year, but if they don’t see him ramping up as a viable point guard in the next 18 months, they’ll deal him and look elsewhere.
I lived near Cleveland when Miller was there and Cleveland was awful, Miller led that team in scoring while nearly leading the league in assists. His vision and ability to make an offense work is hard to match.
He’s always in the right place, making the right pass.
by Phantaskippy on Jul 24, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The first choice.
They will keep all three until they either get Mills back or until they can get another project pg. then they will trade JBay.
I don’t know if him not playing too good or if it was the statement about his inferior team mates on national TV, but JBay reversed his popularity with many fans and it is looking like maybe the Brass.
I think JBay will be traded at the time that suits the Blazers,
bbk.
I think they go for Pooh Jeter over Patty Mills
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I can definitely see miller coming off the bench with the second unit, he would draw so much attention that the tre’s would just rain, if you think about it that would be deadly.
But, I would much rather see Miller help Brandon out especially when we can make a deep playoff push. And with Martell coming back we have depth all around now. Greg seemingly has the spark or swagger back if u will. I just cant wait..
I agree with Miller in the 2nd unit
Training camp will probably decided it.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Chad Ford's Summer Scorecard
Insider required – http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=OffseasonRankings-09
The Blazers jumped from #19 to #10.
Overall it is negative. The only new paragraph:
However, on Friday, Pritchard worked out a deal with veteran point guard Andre Miller, who is the calming presence the team was looking for. He won’t be the leader of the team, but his steadiness combined with his ability to post up other guards will come in handy. Signing Miller isn’t a home run for Pritchard, but it’s a solid upgrade over Steve Blake.
Everyone should go take the Starting PG Poll
Here is a link:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/24/961798/starting-pg-poll
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 3:59 PM PDT reply actions
yup jsut found it via twitter
gavindawsonJust officially announced on 955thegame.com. A miller a blazer
by DephlatorMouse on Jul 24, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So, if it is $21M
I’ve done the math.
Assuming 8% raises, the deal could be:
$6.47M for the first year
$6.99M for the 2nd
$7.55M for the 3rd.
Total: $21.01M.
In that case, we still have a sliver of our cap space left (~ $1.3M until the start of the season, then the Euro – cap holds disappear).
I don’t know that we can do much with $1.3M.
I would assume we have now officially renounced all of the same guys we temporarily renounced for the Millsap offer sheet.???
"I’m really excited for this opportunity with the Trail Blazers and look forward to working with my new team," said Miller. "I hope to provide veteran leadership to a young talented nucleus and help Portland take the next step in the pursuit of a championship."
nice find
Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
what does this mean
The contract would be worth $21 million, with $14 million guaranteed and $7 million included as a team option, the source said.
what is a team option? does it mean he with us for 3 years or not? basically it looks like a 2year 14 million but the team option means what?
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions
Miller has missed just three games in his career.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions
The fact of the matter is that this is a great acquisition for Portland.
Miller and Blake will compliment each other perfectly – totally different players. Neither player has a high maintenance ego so it won’t really matter to them who starts. I see the allocation of playing time changing game by game depending on match ups.
Age isn’t an issue given the contract structure and ALM’s playing style.
The coaching staff is going to have so many more oprions in the X’s & O’s department.
I’m very happy.
Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I agree
Good Point—-Miller is a great Aquisition. Filled a hole on our roster with a Vet. Nate should be stoaked as well!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
This is a BAD deal !
Miller does not answer out perimeter defense deficiencies
and does not help our chemistry. He’s a me 1st type of player
from all reports. Not a great fit !
It's GO time !
dude I disagree
as do most of us. I do agree his defense isnt as good as his offense, but he fill a hole on our roster and had veteran exp. hes only missed 3 games his whole career! he will be a great fit. no big egos with miller either. I seen a quote saying he was the best lob pssser in the last 20 years—imagine that with BIG G.O. to pull down some of those lobs or even RUDY! I think he was a great cheap pickup.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
So who do you suggest we acquire to shore up our deficiencies on perimeter defense?
With the current NBA rules, the days of having a legitimate ‘Lock Down Defender’ are all but over. Perhaps you’re talking about team perimeter defense – which you’re right, i see no change.
On -court chemistry will improve – he’s a vocal floor leader, adds toughness to the team, and bring experience.
Off-court chemistry will see no change – much like Greg Oden, he likes doing his own thing and values his privacy more so than the average NBA player.
Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I dont think there is one single player
that is gonna shore up our defense. I think our team itself needs to step up its defensive effort. I think that like Nate says, offense isnt a given but defense is. Basically when your offense is off, you can still be a factor with your defense. Not to say I wouldnt want another tuff defensive minded player, but I dont know who that is. I thought David Lee was gonna be that guy, but that supposedly aint gonna happen now.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, this strengthens a strength
The same porous perimeter D remains. Not sure about the character/chemistry issue.
He's not a me-first player by all reports, stop that
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 24, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
who what when where why
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
POLL-Who Should Start For the Blazers -POLL
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/24/961798/starting-pg-poll
So Far Miller has way more votes its — 156 to 37 in favor of Miller starting over Blake
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions
Keep Steve Blake
Miller is no spring chicken. We can keep Miller fresh by keeping his minutes down.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
From OregonLive forum
PORTLAND – Former Summer League MVP Jerryd Bayless has demanded a trade after learning about the signing of free agent point guard Andre Miller, via a YouTube video the second-year guard uploaded on Friday. The former 76ers veteran will accept a three-year, approximately $22 million offer to sign with the Portland Trail Blazers.
With the signing of Miller, along with last season’s starter Steve Blake, minutes will be hard to come by for the former University of Arizona standout.
“I respect the direction the organization is heading towards, but it has become obvious that I’m not in their future,” Bayless stated in his video. “My agent and I feel like there are better situations out there for me.”
“He’s relentless in the gym, and we love his worth ethic, but if that is what he requests, we will do our best to find the best situation for Jerryd,” Pritchard said from Team USA’s practice on Friday. “We like him as a player for sure, but he doesn’t fit our needs.”
Bayless averaged 4.3 pts, 1.5 asts, 1.1 rebs in 53 games last season.
what the?
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I expect the Andre Miller signing will ultimately backfire on both the front office and the coaching staff, ...
but it’ll nevertheless be interesting to see how things play out the first season. Here’s a few prognostications of mine for Miller’s first season in Portland, though.
1. Although Miller has played in up-tempo offensive systems in the past, it’s the coach rather than the players who dictate pace. As a result, Miller must adjust himself to Nate McMillan’s offense.
2. While I bet Miller’s post-up opportunities against opposing point guards will be limited in the high/low zone offense, he should still get several chances at dribble-drive isolation plays — rather than spot-up three-point shots that are Steve Blake’s forte — as well as hopefully some give-and-go plays wherein LaMarcus Aldridge passess back out of the pick-and-pop mid-range jump shot.
3. Miller is a good floor general at point guard, which should greatly benefit Greg Oden. For Oden, running a high pick-and-roll and side screen-and-roll with Miller should be money on offense. McMillan can even add a wrinkle in his offense by calling for a side give-and-go, which’d allow Miller a chance to occasionally post-up down on the low block.
4. Miller is a mediocre defensive player on the perimeter, but gets slaughtered by quicker point guards. That, without a question, will be a problem, since Oden will likely continue to get into early foul trouble by having to switch out constantly on guards who burn Miller.
5. Miller’s substandard long-range shot means that Brandon Roy will have to improve both his efficiency and proficiency from downtown. If Roy doesn’t evolve in that respect, opposing teams will clog the lane and stifle his iso game. Because Miller is extremely unlikely to shoot above 30% from beyond the arc, it’s therefore up to Roy to make this work without a hitch.
On a final note, Kevin Pritchard should offer up Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, and Jerryd Bayless to the Chicago Bulls for Kirk Hinrich. With Nicolas Batum, Roy, Miller, Rudy Fernandez, and Hinrich, there’d be consolidation, versatility, and depth at the 3 perimeter positions. Since Fernandez and Hinrich are fairly interchangeable at the weakside corner, ballside wing, and point off of the bench, opposing teams would have matchup issues every game.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
maybe we should get Tyrus as well
fill the PF spot as well
On a final note, Kevin Pritchard should offer up Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, and Jerryd Bayless to the Chicago Bulls for Kirk Hinrich. With Nicolas Batum, Roy, Miller, Rudy Fernandez, and Hinrich, there’d be consolidation, versatility, and depth at the 3 perimeter positions. Since Fernandez and Hinrich are fairly interchangeable at the weakside corner, ballside wing, and point off of the bench, opposing teams would have matchup issues every game.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m4swkr
yay or nay
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hi, we just signed Andre Miller...
Hinrich and his 9mil contract are staying in Chicago. A few people on BE tried to blog this trade into existence, but it was not likely before, and it is much much less so now. The PG position has been addressed for the next two to three years, now the team will look to PF, and third string PG if anything, which does not compute at 9 mil.
POLL- Who SHould Start POLL
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/24/961798/starting-pg-poll
185 to 45 in favor of Miller starting so far
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions
Bayless is gonzo
I like adding Miller but I hope Bayless doesn’t go thrive somewhere else – at whatever position. Unlike most of this place I don’t like writing a high draft pick off after two summer leagues and a quarter of a season’s worth of a chance. I’m also not a huge Rudy guy, especially with Sergio gone. But we’ll see.
Blazer Fan
I a gree with
I don’t like writing a high draft pick off after two summer leagues and a quarter of a season’s worth of a chance.
But I am a big RUDY fan and RUDYS play has nothing to do with Sergio being there or not. RUDY is a pimp!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller/Rudy is a much better backcourt than Blake/Rudy while Roy rests,
Miller will get Rudy more open 3-pt shots than Blake, and he will run the fast break with Rudy while Brandon is out. Rudy provides the 3-pt threat while Miller is in. Roy isn’t going to run the break much, he creates his own shots, and Blake provides a 3-pt threat when playing with Roy.
So I can see Blake starting 1st and 3rd quarters with Roy for about 6 minutes, but Miller getting more total minutes than Blake (maybe 24-18, with Roy getting 6 minutes at PG). Sort of like Batum starting last year, but then only playing about 18 minutes. Match-ups probably determine whether Miller or Blake finishes games with Roy, Rudy, LMA, and Oden (or Joel depending on GO fouls).
Rudy got about 26 minutes last year and probably figures to get 28 minutes this year. If Brandon rests 12 minutes, and plays 6 minutes at PG and 10 minutes at SF, it works out pretty well for target minutes with a 10-man rotation.
PG – Blake(18), Miller(24), Roy(6)
SG – Roy(20), Rudy(28)
SF – Batum/Martell(38), Roy(10)
PF – LMA (36), Backup PF (12)
C – Oden/Joel (48)
LMA 36
Roy 36
Rudy 28
Miller 24
Blake 18
Batum/Martell 38
Oden/Joel 48
Back up PF 12
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions
Travis who?
Seriously Travis has to go. I’d package Travis and Bayless for a good veteran PF. We need a 4th capable big. That’s the priority now. Until Travis is moved, he can fill those 12 minutes behind LMA, as he has done in the past. But Outlaw at backup PF is not an option for a contender, which is what we are building now.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Feels like a sign and trade to me
Bayless and Outlaw to the Knicks for David Lee. I think Blake is an excellent backup pg whose skills complement Miller’s.
i would love that but
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
make it so.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
ain't happening
Lee doesn’t want to play second fiddle to LMA
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 24, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions
not enough $
there’s not enough cap-space to get that S&T done, anymore.
And KP isn’t likely to throw in another player to make it happen. They tried but there isn’t a deal that’s ammenable to the Knicks and/or Lee
You can still take Outlaw + Bayless and make a 2-1 deal and go up to 7 mil for a backup PF/C though, if you can find a trade partner
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless won't be speechless
Bayless comes across as an intense individual and a possible malcontent. He keeps saying he can play the point but actions speak louder then words. I would rather see him not say a word and just prove it, but, he has not done that yet. I say let jettison this guy before he becomes a real problem.
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