Andre Miller is Almost a Blazer
by Ben Golliver on Jul 24, 2009 11:54 AM PDT
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Print** This post will update as new information comes in. **
Kate Fegan of Philly.com reports...
Andre Miller's agent, Andy Miller, has confirmed that within 24 hours Andre Miller will be a Portland Trailblazer.
Miller said the two parties are "finalizing" the deal today and it should become official within 24 hours. His client, who has been the 76ers starting point guard for the last 2 1/2 seasons, will receive a deal that one source said was "an improvement" over the deal the Sixers were offering, which was reportedly in the 1 year/$6 million range.
12:02PM... Chad Ford of ESPN reports...
The Portland Trail Blazers have offered point guard Andre Miller a three-year contract with a team option for a third year, a source close to the process said Friday.
The contract would be worth $21 million, with $14 million guaranteed and $7 million included as a team option, the source said.
12:07PM... Jason Quick of The Oregonian reports...
The Trail Blazers have agreed to sign point guard Andre Miller to a multi-year contract, according to the player's agent.
"We're closing in on a deal, we should have one shortly,'' agent Andy Miller told The Oregonian shortly before noon.
12:10PM... Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus tweets...
Andre Miller is a very good player. Unfortunately, he happens to be all wrong for the Blazers.
12:18PM... Casey Holdahl from Blazers.com tweets...
Direct quote from Kevin Pritchard: "As of now no deal is done."
12:46PM... People keep sending me this video so I'm posting it.
12:53PM... Chad Ford and Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com now write...
Before they committed to Miller, the Blazers made a strong push for Lee, a power forward. On Tuesday night, Blazers coach Nate McMillan and front-office executives Kevin Pritchard and Tom Penn had dinner with Lee in Las Vegas to make their recruiting pitch.
One source said the Blazers offered Lee a variety of options, including an opt-out clause that would have made him an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2011. But the Knicks and Portland could not agree in discussions Thursday on any kind of a sign-and-trade deal, and the Blazers did not want to risk losing Miller over the seven-day waiting period had they chosen to use their cap space to tender an offer sheet to Lee, which New York would have had the right to match.
Lee, attending Team USA's mini-camp in Las Vegas, confirmed the Tuesday night recruiting meeting and said he was intrigued by the possibility of playing for Portland, although he never thought a deal was close.
12:57PM... Jason Quick of The Oregonian writes...
Miller was the Blazers' third choice in the free agent market, and their pursuit intensified in the last 24 to 36 hours, about the same time the Blazers pulled away from talks with New York free agent forward David Lee.
According to Mark Bartelstein, Lee's agent, the forward met with the Blazers this week in Las Vegas, after which talks increased. However, on Thursday evening, the two sides agreed to part ways.
"We agreed it wasn't a perfect fit,'' Bartelstein said. "There was a lot of conversation, a lot of back-and-forth, but there were a lot of issues on both sides.''
Bartelstein said the Blazers explored a sign-and-trade with the Knicks, but New York president Donnie Walsh recoiled at the offers. Meanwhile, Lee's camp had questions about his role on the Blazers, who have a solid front line with LaMarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla.
12:59PM... Marc Spears of Yahoo! writes...
Andre Miller will accept a three-year, $22 million offer to sign with the Portland Trail Blazers, a source close to the free-agent guard said on Friday.
The first two seasons of the contract are guaranteed while the third year is a team option.
Trail Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard cautioned that "nothing is done yet." But a source close to Miller said he has decided to take the offer and will sign with the Blazers.
Miller will give the Trail Blazers a veteran point guard to help steady their young roster.
"He's got great savvy and leadership," Pritchard said from Team USA's practice on Friday. "We like him as a player for sure."
3:14PM... Nice analysis from Kelly Dwyer at Yahoo! He writes...
The Blazers need an upgrade on Steve Blake, and though Miller has the same defensive deficiencies as the incumbent Portland point guard, he contributes at a far greater rate in every area save for outside shooting. And the Blazers, first in offensive efficiency last season, have that area more or less covered.
...
You only have Miller for two years, at a price just above market average, while your young team moves closer to its prime.
For Miller? He's not going to get another staunch contract like this in his career, even if he shines through all three years. But this is fair. He's made plenty of money, a good rookie deal followed by a big free agent deal with Denver, followed by this. And, to be fair, he coasted at times during his contract year. Teams obviously noticed.
But they also noticed over 16 points, 6.5 assists, and 4.5 rebounds last season. Even if that drops a bit in 2009-10 (coach Nate McMillan likes to slow things down, so even if Miller's per-game averages drop, it doesn't mean he's playing worse), it's still sound production to have.
Fine deal, for both ends.
3:15 PM... Kevin Pelton expands on his earlier tweet...
I'm still of the opinion that the primary priority for Portland should have been improvement at the defensive end, where the Blazers ranked 12th in the league during the regular season. Miller is a slight upgrade over Blake at this end of the floor, but does little to help Portland's problem chasing around the league's jets-especially as he ages. If the Blazers are to improve at the defensive end of the floor, it will probably have to come from within and specifically from Greg Oden in his second year. Glowing reports about Oden's defensive work at this week's USA Basketball mini-camp are encouraging on this front.
Lest we get too pessimistic, it's not like Portland lost anyone to add Miller, should Blake be willing to move into a reserve role. If Miller's lack of shooting becomes a problem at times, Blake will still be there to step into the lineup. From a fiscal perspective, the Miller deal we've seen reported is very reasonable. Because just two years are guaranteed, Miller could become a valuable ending contract as soon as next season. The cost, then, is primarily an alternative one. The Blazers chose Miller over potentially making a deal with a team looking to shed salary. That option was a risky one in that it is impossible to know for sure what players might come available before the cap space would have been lost at next year's trade deadline, but it is possible that Portland ight have found a player who, if less talented than Miller, was a better fit for the team's needs.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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Maybe it is a two year deal
that would be an improvement over the 1 year $6 million deal Philly offered.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
not 1 year rental
paying miller $7/per for 2 years w/ team option for 3rd is a great deal for the blazers. blazers still have a little wiggle room under the cap to make a trade, but we don’t lose anything by just adding miller to the existing squad (not like all the people on here wanting to trade pieces to get a more expensive hinrich).
now bayless can go back to the end of the bench and learn to be an NBA PG from a veteran starter (blake is a vet backup). if he can hit the 20 ft jumper, he will be a great addition to the team.
by retirecards51 on Jul 24, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the one year contract.
This is a good opportunity to see if he’ll be a good fit with the team. If not, he can be gone after the season.
The price seems a tiny bit steep, but it’s not criminal by any means. I’m glad the Blazers are keeping at least SOME of their cap space in case a deal comes about by February.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
I didn't read anything
that said it was going to be a one year deal? I think you are just reading into it being an “improvement” over a 1 year deal. Miller was looking to get a multi-year deal, maybe KP gave him one.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
It's possible I may be ready too much into the figure.
I thought I read a tweet that mentioned it was one year, but I could be wrong.
I sure hope I’m not though!
Yes! Yes! In the face!
According to ESPN
philly420pdxhilo posted below that ESPN says it is a 3 year deal, with the 3rd year being a team option. That is not a bad deal for Miller imo.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Let’s hear it for AMEC!!!
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Jul 24, 2009 11:57 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Good point
We could always trade him as an expiring next year or the one after
"My avatar picture is of the favorite vehicle I ever owned" -Me
by 92wastheyear on Jul 24, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually pretty happy
about the prospect of Miller as a Blazer.
My sentiments, really
It’s a definite upgrade, but I hoped the cap space would bring us more, and might have been worth more at the trade deadline.
But still an upgrade. Blake/Miller vs. Blake/Sergio? Yeah. I can go for that.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
ESPN is reporting
three years, 21 mil w/third yr a team option.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
by philly420pdxhilo on Jul 24, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions
Here's the link
Dang. At least the 3rd year is a team option?? I’d feel better if this was a shorter term deal, but I guess one extra year isn’t that bad.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
a Miller/Blake backcourt
is pretty good to me, eventhough Miller can’t hit the 3, that is how the Blazers played last year because it played to Blake’s strength. Miller gives the Blazers another creater who will take pressure off Roy, he can run the pick and roll with Oden, the pick and pop with LMA, and get Roy better, easier looks. But if this is true, I see Martell starting at the 3, unless Batum really improves his 3 point shooting, (i know he hit a good percentage, it is the quantity I am worried about).
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
And
the Blazers should now have a running game.
and they didn't with Sergio?
Nate’s gonna restrict Miller’s game just the same… at least Miller has some experience, that will help.
Sometimes I wonder if there could be really
UFO's that come from other planets-- CTD's
Not enough to matter that much.
The coaching staff gives veterans more leash, especially proven ones like Miller.
Nate wouldn't have signed off on him
If he didn’t want to run more. It’s one thing to try to direct/ change a young player, but everyone knows who Dre is now, and he’s not going to be changing.
This is great news for Batum, LMA, and Rudy. That 4th quarter lineup of Oden, LMA, Rudy, Roy, and Miller is going to run over people. And excel in the half court.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
that doesn’t happen often… but you are correct Sir. Miller is a good playmaker, plays smart and knows how to find the right guys in the right spot at the right time. He doesn’t need to run and Nate is about grinding out half court possessions, not frenetic up and down play.
Sometimes I wonder if there could be really
UFO's that come from other planets-- CTD's
Blake/Miller
Blake fits with our starters…Miller fits with our second unit. But at 7million a year, will he be happy coming off the bench? I see chemistry problems.
by trailblazeraddict on Jul 24, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Bench?
Why would you put him on the bench?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
2003 hossticles says:
‘hooray!’
2009 hossticles says:
‘hmm.. okay!’
GG MFer!
-joel przybilla
by hossticles on Jul 24, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE
KP just went down a notch in my book. First, KP said Miller was too old and can’t shoot outside. Now he signs him for 3 years for $21 million.
Disgusting.
Totally disagree
Miller will bring a new aspect to the Blazers they have been lacking for a long time. This is a good deal, 2 year deal basically as the 3rd year is a team option.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I AGREE!
What the freak is going on here? How does he help us? No defense, no perimeter shot… I just don’t understand.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, the lack of bball knowledge is surprising
While Miller is certainly not a top tier guy at this stage in his career, he is still a huge improvement over Blake….and I say this as a fan of Blake.
Steve is a guy who can bring the ball up the court, call the play the coach has just told him to call, and then sit on the 3-point line and wait for scraps from Brandon and LaMarcus. He’s very good at doing this, but I don’t think anyone should argue that this style of point guard play is really doing a lot to improve the team.
Andre Miller can’t shoot the three, but guess what? He know’s this…so he hardly ever attempts them. And instead of shooting threes, he’s not just handing the ball to the other team and running back on defense, he is PASSING THE BALL. Just think how much better LaMarcus and Greg would be with more good touches. I encourage people to read Hollinger’s scouting report for Miller. “One of the best to throw the alley oop of anyone to ever play the game.”
Like I said, I like Steve Blake, but he doesn’t have any aspect of his game that could be considered close to exceptional. Portland finally has a NBA starting point guard.
by HappyTrails on Jul 24, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alright
Please try and keep in mind who we are as a team, what we do, and what we try to do when you make statements like this.
Assist numbers, pace, offensive efficiency, the fouls called on Greg Oden because of Steve’s lack of defense, these are the issues we have. Andre Miller does not help us with these. I am glad that he throws good passes, we had a guy named Sergio that did that too, and he didn’t get burn because he wasn’t shooting the outside shot well or playing defense.
I was planning on turning this into a post mocking you and your “lack of bball knowledge”, but you obviously can see that he throws alley-oops so he’s awesome? Noted.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Andre Miller is a much, much better player than Sergio
by jksnake99 on Jul 24, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Duh
but his issues are similar. On our team, we have certain issues that are necessary for our team that we needed to focus on.
1) Defend the pick and roll. (Dre does not help us with this).
2) Continue to be a hyper-efficient offense (Dre does not help us with this)
3) Push the fast break (Dre does help us with this)
These are our issues, and I thought the plan was to address them this summer, and that was part of the reason we got rid of Sergio. I’m not saying that Dre is anything like a downgrade from Sergio, but he doesn’t help us in the areas where we were lacking last year.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
You seem to be missing:
Have another slasher/perimeter creator on offense other then Brandon.
Many people fail to destinguish the possible reversal in causation with Brandon on offense. “Brandon needs the ball in his hands” might be overlooking how the personell situation has effected how Roy plays. My argument might start out with “for us to be effective offensively, we needed to have the ball in Brandon’s hands due to the lack of any other slasher/perimeter creators on the team.” Remember how much late game burn Jack got 2 seasons ago? (over Blake) That had to do with adding another slasher. Sergio may be a “creator” but he isn’t a finisher (yet.)
I do think there is a legit chance that Dre is a better defender then Blake. More experienced, more athletic and without a doubt STRONGER then Blake. Strength can be a vital asset in fighting through picks right? I havn’t checked the defensive stat comparison yet though.
Gimmicks don't make dynasties
I agree
Brandon admits he was more of a slasher in college, and then decided to work on more of a well rounded game.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
The only thing is that the Blazers are super efficient when the ball is in Brandon's hands
so i can see both sides of the argument as far as brandon being a primary ball handler, i think it’s a no brainer that if he’s not facing serious doubles, than he should be the playmaker, but more and more he is not going to get let in the paint.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
he’s not facing serious doubles
One good thing about having Miller in the game is that it should discourage the other team from doubling Roy, because all Brandon would have to do is swing the ball to Andre and he’ll have a field day “breaking down” the resulting 4 on 3 …
drive
lob
DUNK!
“and 1”
…no more double teams on Roy
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That's a great set of points.
I do wish we had a more proven defender, and a guy who could get through pick and rolls, but dang yea I can definitely see that.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
The Blazers were one of the top teams in offensive efficiency.
If Miller is on the starting unit, he can run the pick and roll, the pick and pop, and can drive to the hoop. He’s no worse than Blake on defense and can hit a midrange jumper.
If he comes off the bench, he can penetrate and kick to Rudy and Web/Batum for the 3, and pick and roll with Pryz.
It’s not the greatest acquisition (I preferred Hinrich) but it’s not a disaster, either.
Patty Mills - PG of the future. Book it.
by Blazerholic on Jul 24, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
He's still better than Steve Blake
Better passer, better at creating his own shot, better at finishing at the rim, better at running in the open-court, definitely a better defender than Blake.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
care to share what the 'new aspect' actually is?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
E.g. posting up smaller players which Miller does quite a lot for a PG. And drive and dish plays, which Blake about never does since he is no real threat attacking the basket.
see, that's more informative :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
yea but since we have two centers
who clog up the lane, a posting up point guard is going to be down there with whoever is guarding our center. And will get the ish swatted out of him.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
yea but Brand didn't get a chance to play a whole lot
And they played a lot better without Brand on the floor. I didn’t watch them a whole lot this year, so I can’t be sure what was the reason for that. but Dalembert is a good point.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I can think of several...
1. Experience
2. Pushing the temp effectively
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a huge fan of Miller in terms of fit with our team, but I don’t think it’s fair to say (a) he’s no good, or (b) he brings nothing to the table. My question will be whether what he brings will translate to improve our team or not.
I think it’s possible that he acts as a stabilizing force. Our highs may not be as high as when we have Blake in their making 100% of his 3’s, spacing the floor with our deadly offense clicking on all cylinders. BUT our lows shouldn’t be as low either. Our offense died when the shots weren’t falling and Roy was too tired to carry us. Miller is another guy who get high percentage looks at will. Roy is the only guy we currently have who can do that. LA settles for fade-aways too often to be relied on heavily just yet. I could see Miller improving our offense in the playoffs where the D improves and 1-on-1 ball carries the day more.
think it’s possible that he acts as a stabilizing force.
That’s what AM’s best known for, making all of his teammates better
I especially like this addition for the playoffs, Bayless was not going to be the answer at #2 PG in late April
and if Blake gets hurt again, no more worries
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
sure!
Miller is 100 times better then Blake in running the pick and roll, this will give the Blazers a second creator off the dribble that they missed out on with Hedo not signing. He can post up small PG’s like CP3 or Brooks, and he won’t be posted up by the D Wills of the league.
He is 100 times better at running the Fast break than Blake, this alone with horses the Blazers have will earn a few extra buckets a game.
But the best part is we don’t have to give up Blake ot get him, which slides Blake to the Back up roll, where he is 100 times better than Sergio or Bayless was last year. Basically this moves gives the Blazers a legit PG rotation to be contenders this year.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 24, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
i'm STARTING to buy it
;-)
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
easy baskets
Miller will help in that area, both in the half court but especially in transition
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I doubt KP actually said...
… that AM was too old and can’t shoot. I think those reports attributed to the Blazers are unlikely to have come from KP, or likely anyone high up in the front office, for that matter. Whether KP thought it or not, it would be silly to say.
Where did he say that?
My impression is that they didn’t want him for three years at ten million.
If we got him for 3 years/$21mil, with the third year a team option, then I think you can argue that KP got a bargain.
Everything I have heard says Miller is a heck of a quarterback and he certainly can get to the rim, which will put a lot of pressure on other teams defenses. Hopefully, Martell’s foot is well, and he can help spread the floor.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know that he's THAT old.
He’s only 33. It’s not like he’s a senior citizen or anything. Outside shooting isn’t a strength for him, obviously. But he does bring some court savvy, the ability to run an offense efficiently and he’s a bit better defensively than Blake.
it’s not an outstanding signing or anything, but it’s not horrible either.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
He Is A Castoff
The Sixers didn’t want him. Look at what they offered him. They didn’t think that highly of him.
The Sixers are in scrap mode
They’re shopping Brand too. Miller was one of their best players. I not sure he will be great here, but he was huge for them. They just want to cut salary, and rebuild IMO.
They wouldn't have tendered an offer if they didn't like him at all.
Besides, just because a player doesn’t work for one team, it doesn’t mean he’s not going to work for any other team.
He’s a 48% FG shooter over the last two seasons, so even though he’s not a deep threat, he’s still a threat to score along with being a good distributor. I’d rather have guys like Webster and Rudy be the outside shooters anyway.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
PG = Louis Miller
and they just drafted Jrue Holiday
Philly didn’t want to make a committment to AM past this year, Portland apparently does
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Louis Williams
Tony Luftman Is an Animatronic Robot created by Cyberdyne Industries for the purpose of the destruction of the entire human race, no one shall be spared.
As soon as I heard that KP bashed Miller
I assumed it was a ploy to lower his value. KP doesn’t just throw information out into the world, he always has a purpose to it.
Remember Miller was looking for 3/$30 on July 1? Our choice of 2/$14 or 3/$21 is pretty fantastic.
Playing Miller with Roy will make it easier
for teams to clog the lanes defensively. That’s too much for too long for a player who doesn’t fit. Why the hell didn’t they make a play for Sessions? He’s a MUCH better fit and we could have gotten him for less $$$
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
1 word...
EXPERIENCE. Nate wants a vet. We need a vet. Sessions offers no experience. Miller offers plenty.
Moreover, Miller is a proven leader, and will be a good mentor for our younger guys.
Finally, because Miller is old, we face very little risk. He only needs to produce for one year. If he sucks next year, we can move him as an EC, and we get the option on year 3. Sessions would have required a 4/5 year deal, no doubt.
How is Sessions a much better fit?
Dude does not shoot outside, period.
Miller at least brings experience.
the ESPN
report is linked above.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
no news on a sign and trade?
if that’s the case “DOWN goes the cap-space!”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I thought the big questino mark was his attitude and willingness to cooperate? Maybe they discussed this in his meeting…
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
It's Roy's locker room...
I think it shouldn’t be a problem.
IF Nate is willing to let the horses run and IF Andre is willing to play a lot of his time with the second unit, then this move is okay. We have to play to his strengths if he’s our big acquisition.
life is better as an optimist
Second unit
He could be amazing with the second unit if he doesn’t fit with the first.
He will be a starter
He is an ultra disciplined point guard. I’ve watched him for years. He is a huge upgrade. Blake comes off the bench. Looks like Bayless is odd man out. Great pick-up!
Seriously. He isn’t the same guy that he was at Denver. But I guess we will have to wait and see cuz you never know how a guy will fit on a particular team
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
You're right... he's BETTER
I wouldn’t have believed it, but the last two years have been his second and third best seasons.
Hollinger stats:http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=557
His minutes have stayed high, his shooting has improved, and he’s cut his TOs dramatically.
I should add though...
I don’t think he’s a great fit for the Blazers. I hope I, and most of the experts, am wrong about that.
Daaaaaaamn...
I had no idea his numbers were that good!
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
MIller's never played on a team with as good of an offense as Portland had last year
His last year in Denver was the highest team PER of any squad he’s been on
I like him coming off the bench, a lot
he could play alongside Roy for short minutes, the two of them could take turn posting up the other team’s smaller PG
downside: perimeter defense is not one of the Blazer’s priorities…they’ll all have to work together to “wall off” penetration
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
con: big $ when we should've offered senior discount
pro: i have a new favorite blazer who was once a utah ute!
GG MFer!
-joel przybilla
This could be great for Oden
But it’s hard to see why he was the choice instead of Hinrich, especially when the pricetags are pretty similar
Similar pricetags?
We just got AM with our cap space. Hinrich wasn’t coming for nothing. He would have cost us players.
Chicago is probably pretty hesitant to move Hinrich after losing Ben Gordon
Garden Variety Internet Denizen
WORD UP.STAY.FRESCO
yes, good point
Greg should get lot’s of pick and dive opportunities from Miller
“My dinner with Andre” dishes served with lots of garnish!
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Maybe he was the choice
for exactly the reason you said — this could be great for Oden.
And Hinrich may simply have been unavailable.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
The Guy Is Slow
The guy is old and slow as molasses in January on defense.
He's an upgrade
He’s not Chris Paul, but he will improve point guard play over what we had last year. I wonder how Bayless is feeling today?
no doubt
time to start thinking about what veteran PF could be gotten for an Outlaw-Bayless package…that’s the final piece
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 24, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not thinking Price is a target
sooner than later, Batum will be what Tayshaun is, or was
And Dumars doesn’t wan to part with him anyway
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I thought the same
And then Dumars drafted three SF’s in the draft.
Considering how hard they went after Charlie V immediately after, it seems to me that Daye, Summers, and Jerebko were drafted to play the SF. Of course, that process could take time (like half a season) to resolve, but the writing is on the wall now for both Prince and Hamilton.
Dumars said a week or so ago
that they like their defense better with Prince playing next to Charlie V, when asked about acquiring Boozer
Prince might be available, but I don’t think KP has the pieces that Dumars would want for Tayshaun, now that the cap-space is gone
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We still need a PG
of the future in development. This team is poised for a run past both Blake and Miller’s windows. If we are trading away Bayless, we would be planning on developing some other player for 3 years down the road.
Gimmicks don't make dynasties
ya, where does bayless fit in
him sitting at the end of the bench is a complete waste. He deserves to actually get some playing time.
by raging WebTed on Jul 24, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice knowing you Bayless
sorry things didn’t work out in Portland… best of luck where ever you get traded to
Sometimes I wonder if there could be really
UFO's that come from other planets-- CTD's
Are you sure?
Who is your PG in 3 years when Oden and LMA start to really hit their prime?
You won’t be having cap space to sign a FA.
You won’t be getting a high draft pick.
You’d better start developing someone, even if he isn’t ready right now.
I’ll be surprised if Bayless goes. This just means they think he isn’t ready now, it doesn’t mean they have given up on him.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Dont give up on Bayless....
well it’s too late for that… Bayless just doesn’t fit in here. He is not a PG and never will. I thought Pooh Jeter looked entirely more comfortable playing the point (in summer league) because that’s his ideal position. Bayless is an attack the rim scorer. He’s never going to be a decent PG and there’s no room at the 2 with Brandon and Rudy on board for a long time. At this point Bayless is getting ZERO P.T. unless the PTB do him a huge favor and trade him.
We got three years with Blake and Miller. I’m happy with that.
Sometimes I wonder if there could be really
UFO's that come from other planets-- CTD's
there’s no room at the 2 with Brandon and Rudy on board for a long time
Roy, yes
Rudy? I wouldn’t be so sure
(but I don’t envision Rex being Rudy’s “replacement” anyway)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
KP is going to have to sell patience to Bayless
and I don’t think Jerryd will be a willing buyer
but then, Rex doesn’t really have a choice—kind of like Sergio—he’s property of the PTB
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Patience?
He’s going to sell this:
It’s easy, Jerryd. Become better than Blake and you get his PT. You’ve got more talent, but he knows how to be a PG in the NBA and you don’t yet. No reason you can’t surpass him — and if you do, Andre is only around for 2 years, maybe three, and then you become the starting point on a championship team. It’s all up to you.
What is Bayless going to do for the next two years besides trying to become a better point guard? Retire? He has no options.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
So..
Andy Miller is Andre Miller’s agent? That must be hella confusing.
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
Andre Miller will be the Blazers' best PG next year, by a lot
He’s not a great fit with Roy and he’s not a great defender but he certainly makes plays that Blake et. al can’t. It will be very interesting to see what the PG rotation looks like next year. Is Bayless in the team’s plans at all?
by jksnake99 on Jul 24, 2009 12:11 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't it seem..
that either Blake or Bayless are on their way out? Is this the beginning of a domino effect? Bayless for s/t Lee, perhaps?
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
i was just going to ask this..
it seems like a strange stand-alone move, but perhaps a signal for a second/third move that really forms the roster KP has in mind.
GG MFer!
-joel przybilla
i agree
my gut says they’re shopping bayless right now. will be interesting to see what happens
"Brandon, a 3-pointer out front... HIT IT!!! YES HE DID!!! OHHHHH YEAAA!"
by oregonduck4life on Jul 24, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Who starts in 2-3 years then? Would be a bit weird to have no plan in place for that with a young core.
Though of course they could always address issues with the MLE then – if it still exists.
We will trade for another PG in 2-3 years
There are a TON of rookie PGs this year and a ton of Sophomores too. Some of those guys should be solid in 2 years and looking for a new team.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
could be, but I doubt it
I don’t think Steve will complain about playing fewer minutes than Andre, as long as he still has a significant role
I do expect that KP will make Blake a fair offer, perhaps before Oct 31st
I don’t think another team will overpay to pry SB away from PDX
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
how about "to be determined"
If they want Bayless to hand around for a couple of years, it could be Jerryd
or they could draft another PG next June
or they could sign another PG as a FA at teh MLE
or they could trade any combination of…player or draft choice or Euro asset for a PG
Why does it matter? It’s not like Blake and Miller are the last PGs who will ever wear a Blazer uniform. But the PG position should be in excellent hands for the next 2 years, at least, assuming Blake signs an extension in the next 12 months…and I suspect he’ll get a “fair” offer from KP
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
hand = hang
teh = the
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm excited to see Roy
finishing at the rim on the break a lot… also LMA, Oden, Outlaw if he’s still here and Rudy.
KP2 doesn't approve
Andre Miller is a very good player. Unfortunately, he happens to be all wrong for the Blazers.
KP and Nate obviously disagree
there were doubters re: Hedo as well (especially due to the 5 year offer) What’s happened to “in KP1 we trust?” How many years has Pelton been an actual NBA GM? Any rings for KP2?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't think I ever used the phrase "In KP1 we trust"
I don’t hate this move, but there are very legitimate questions and concerns about Miller’s fit with the Blazers. We’ll see.
they'll make it work
if KP and Nate thought AM was the wrong fit, they wouldn’t have made the offer. KP1 is big on getting the right fit and Nate is big on veterans
Kenny Vance said that he talked to some of Andre’s peeps who said Miller was house-hunting in PDX back in April
supposedly his grandma lives here
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless just got his summer league grade.
Bayless and Outlaw for a good 4th big man.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I get just as frustrated as anyone
when Travis is having one of his “Out to lunch” moments, but the guy comes off the bench with the potential to drop 20pts on any given night. And he’s extremely cheap. That’s just not something that grows on trees in the NBA. You better be getting one hell of a backup PF of you’re trading him.
by HappyTrails on Jul 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
we could also get 20-10
for Z-bo. Your point?
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
He wasn't cheap
"HA HA HA HA HA
I'm not laughing, I'm just listing the five ugliest Blazers ever."
- rockingharder
Outlaw helps more than he hurts.
Stop expecting perfection from bench players.
by Bskey on Jul 24, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You better be getting one hell of a backup PF
Here’s hoping, I’m sure KP has someone in mind…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yes, sir
(combined contracts) 3.6 mil + 2.143 = 5.7+mil KP should be able to find a decent veteran PF at that amount
They’re really “going for it” and it’s about time
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm not sure a big man is the target
One team to follow closely is Detroit…they have too much talent on the wings already and drafted three SF’s instead of going after any bigs.
Methinks Tayshaun Prince might be available for the right (Rexy) price.
Millers Stats
Last season:
Pts 16.2
Ast 6.5
Reb 4.5
Stls 1.33
FG% 47%
3pt% 28%
PER 18.71
He was even better in the playoffs. He could be a very big upgrade, especially sense this would make Blake the backup, and he is much better than Sergio.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
3pt% 28%
At least Sergio was a 32% shooter. I’d rather see Blake with the first unit since he can shoot and put Miller the second unit and have them run
There is more to being a PG
than your 3pt %. This Blazers will adapt to fit their players strengths, just like last 2 years where they played to Blake’s 3 point shooting, they will adapt to Miller’s ability to create off the dribble, create off the pick and roll, and run the fast break. All of which could/should out weight his lack of 3 point shooting.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
end of game ISO offense
I still like Blake in the corner and Brandon at the top of the key
hopefully Miller won’t mind being one of the guys on the bench waving the towel
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It will be
Roy, Rudy & Martell
by 2005TelfairJerseyForSale on Jul 24, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
could be
Nate may insert different offensive/defensive lineups going down the stretch in games, when he needs stops
Batum could sub in for Webster, etc
it will be interesting to see how the PG rotation is divvied up, the good thing is Blake is not going to squawk about his drop in minutes, as long as he still has a role and the team is winning
Rudy on the other hand…if he doesn’t get his 25-30 mpg there will be repercussions
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We already have enough shooters...
Wait until you see Odens numbers with a PG willing to go to the rim.
by blazerchamp on Jul 24, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
What I see are
a LOT more attempts by Oden and LMA out of smothering double-teams, and Miller throwing up open 18 foot bricks.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
by philly420pdxhilo on Jul 24, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Trust me, Miller will do better than 28% playing next to Roy.
Roy will get Miller more and better threes than he got in Philly.
Miller is a good scorer. He is good at the rim and a good two pt shooter. He is the opposite of Blake, who can only score with the 3 pointer. Miller can score in ever other way. The point is that Miller will keep his defender honest.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
28% of very few isn't really a problem
On average he missed a three once every couple games.
That sounds like a man who knows his limits!
Bayless and Outlaw
If Bayless stays, will he be ok not playing for two years? Will he turn into a good to great PG after two years? Ever?
If the answer to any of these questions is ‘NO’, then Outlaw and Bayless look like a pretty nice outgoing package right now…
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
by Kelsoballa on Jul 24, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Bayless and Outlaw for a 4th big man.
No way Bayless stays. Bad chemistry with another year as 3rd PG.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it is all that clear cut
If Bayless is smart he will apprentice behind Miller for this season and keep working. In two years at the ripe old age of 23 he could be the starting PG on a championship team. Depends on how patient Bayless is and whether or not the team still has patience in him.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yah
I think Bay would be happy to stick around on this stud-filled team knowing he’d have a shot at starting for a championship-caliber team in two years. Whether the Blazers will keep him is the bigger question
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
Bayless will explode if he has to sit another year, let alone 2 years.
Plus he doesn’t improve as a PG while sitting. He has to play to become a PG.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they sit him down and point out Blake's on his final year
and could even be moved at midseason – and the backup position is right there for him to work toward – if Bayless can’t keep it together in those circumstances, is he really the kind of guy you want on the team?
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
Excellent point. If the Blazers get as many home blowouts as I expect, there will be quite a bit of mop-up minutes.
If Bayless gets another 600 minutes, we will at least be able to see if he is improving. My guess that Blake will see a lot more reduction than Bayless compared to last year.
Miller 28 min
Blake 12 min
Bayless remaining 8 plus injury minutes averages 10 min for 70 games = 700 minutes
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Very good point
and it’s not like Bay has shown tremendous signs of putting it together at PG. He was one of the worst rotation players in the NBA this past year, statistically speaking, and his summer league performance didn’t imbue everybody with confidence — and this is coming from a guy who’s a big Bayless fan.
We aren’t at the point where we can give minutes to projects anymore. Right now, that’s what Bayless is — a project. If he works out, I’ll be thrilled. But there’s no doubt that Miller + Blake > Blake + Bayless, and I see this move strengthening the Blazers in the short term while giving them flexibility at the 2010-11 trading deadline if Miller doesn’t work out.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Summer league inspired confidence in me.
Last year summer league: Bayless good, Batum bad
Last year regular season: Bayless bad, Batum good
This year summer league: Bayless bad
This year regular season: …see where this is going?
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
Foolproof!
I like the way you think.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
me too outside the box!
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
if Bayless can’t keep it together in those circumstances, is he really the kind of guy you want on the team?
right, this has been my point for awhile…if Bayless can’t even beat out Blake, why should we be upset if he’s dealt away?
the bigger risk is to hang onto Jerryd for too long and get dreck, like with sergio
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
it will be interesting to hear JB's comments
I’m sure KP will put on the full court press to keep Bayless and try to “reassure him” like he did with Sergio
the other guy who should be having “mixed feelings” about Miller coming is Rudy…there go his backup PG minutes
stay tuned, we could be hearing a rant from Rudy’s Spanish agent in 3,2,1…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
you can be a great PG without being a true PG... see Tony Parker
I’m certainly not saying Bayless will get there (I’m a long way from sold) but the correlation between how “true” a PG you are and how “good” a PG you are is really not that high.
developmental time is over
if Bayless had been drafted in 05-06, the Blazers could’ve afforded to wait and see
but 54 wins dictates that veterans be added to the roster, especially at a key position like PG
you notice that even the rookies they added this year were 4 year college seniors? — they’re going for it
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yes, they are going for it
but developmental time is never over if you want a dynasty.
It isn’t over, it is just more limited. You develop one or two rotation players at a time, not five.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
point guards are different than PFs when it comes to developmental time
the Blazers haven’t developed a PG from rookie to all-star since Terry Porter, and Nate isn’t the kind of coach who will likely buck that trend
so maybe it’s better bringing in veteran PGs who have already gone through all their growing pains on someone else’s dime?
but no more teenagers for awhile, at any position. It’s time for Portland to play against the NBA varsity
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is short-sighted, I think
You have to keep reloading.
Our rotation is solid. We DEFINITELY can use a couple talented teenagers in the 11-13 roster spots. The high risk high reward guys are just the kind of guy you might get in the lower part of the draft, guys like Nic. They may take 2-3 years to develop — so what?
So what if Bayless takes two more years to become a PG? Does it really matter now?
So what if it takes Cunningham 2-3 years to become a quality SF in the NBA? Does it matter much? But if those guys do pan out, we’ve got some really nice pieces, for play or trade, in a couple years.
It is precisely WHEN your rotation is solid that you want to grab the guys who need development.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Who starts next season?
And more importantly – what happens with Bayless?
miller starts
for sure. as much as i didnt like blake as our starting pg moving him to the bench instantly makes him one of the best backup pgs in the league imo.
as for bayless my gut tells me hes on his way out, possibly as a package deal with outlaw
"Brandon, a 3-pointer out front... HIT IT!!! YES HE DID!!! OHHHHH YEAAA!"
by oregonduck4life on Jul 24, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
could be like Damon and Greg Anthony
one PG started but the other finished…Blake and Roy go together like PBJ
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah... Bayless
certainly didn’t help himself at Summer league. This move says that for sure.
how does this move say that? I think it says that KP wanted to use the cap space.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Basically,
LVSL proved that Bayless is not ready to play the point this year. He’s a scoring guard for now, and as such, he’s not that great a fit for the Blazers. They have lots of people who can score. He could stay at the end of the bench learning to play the point for a few years… or he could be traded to a team that could use a short-ish 2.
This move shows that the Blazers need a 1 like Miller more than a young 2 trying to learn the 1 like Bayless. I don’t expect them to trade Blake, and he’s not beating out Blake or Miller, or at least I’d be shocked if he did.
I am pretty optimistic about this deal
1) Miller is a very good distributor
2) He can still get to the rim with great regularity
3) Hopefully a healthy Martell takes Blake’s place as the shooter who can spread the floor.
4) Maybe Roy can score more points shooting open shots rather than crashing to the floor ten times a game.
5) I think Miller’s defense is at least marginally better than Blake’s
6) Miller could be an excellent role model for Bayless
7) 2yrs/$14 mil with a third year option is a heck of a lot better than 3yrs/$30 mil. I think you can argue that KP got a bargain by waiting.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:16 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Totally agree
I think points 3 & 4 could be huge.
This may be a sign that Martell is recovering well (hopefully).
This could also do wonders to save Roy’s body.
1) Miller is a very good distributor
Oden should be well fed “my dinner with Andre”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Pritchslapped
should’ve traded for Hinrich. Thanks for nothing.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2009 12:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I, for one, am relieved that it didn't happen.
You can keep your overpriced, overrated PG, thank you.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
he's not overrated
I think enough people irrationally hate him that it evens out the rest.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess you may have a point.
He’s still overpriced.
Yes, even more so than Miller at $7 mil per.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
Overpriced a little maybe, but we could afford him anyway
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Right - I hear his face pisses a few people off, though. ;)
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
oooooh
Hinrich backed up by Miller?
Ridiculous backcourt… :)
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
I could very easily see this happen
package Bayless with someone and get back hinrich and a backup PF? boozer even?
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
Depends on what KP does with Bayless
If he turned down a deal for Hinrich because he wouldn’t trade Bayless and now he gives up on Bayless, then you may be right.
If he is still high on Bayless but thinks he needs more time, then Miller may be a good mentor for Bayless. Time frame is about right.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but
Hinrich would have been a good mentor and later backup, too.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
My understanding is that we couldn't get Hinrich and Bayless
Bayless was the price for Hinrich and KP wouldn’t do it.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Devil's advocate
Miller’s bigger and a better rebounder. His teams always post solid records (I’ll be back with concrete proof of this) whereas the wheels have been spinning in Chicago the last couple of years with Cap’t Kirk at the helm. Miller’s the more versatile offensive player IMO.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
I’ve not been in the “must get Kirk” chorus.
Just saying that this acquisition isn’t necessarily indicative that KP is still high on Bayless. I think he is, though, but this doesn’t prove it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Our back court combinations:
1. Blake and Roy
2. Miller and Rudy
3. Miller, Rudy, and Roy
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:19 PM PDT reply actions
^^ 3. 3. Miller, Rudy, and Roy(SF)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Not the best defense, but that group should be darn tough to defend
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
We were darn tough to defend last year
That got us a nice first round exit. We were first or second in off efficiency last year. That isn’t what we needed to improve on.
No we weren't
We crushed the league in O Rebounding.
We were like 8-10 in efficiency before O rebounding. This might bring up to 5ish, which with our rebounding makes us insane.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
That group is a heck of a lot less dependent on jumpers than we were last year
Blake was pretty much useless unless his shot was falling. Miller is a much better quarterback who can score in a variety of ways. Open court. pick and roll, going to the rim, floaters, etc. He will also be better at getting the ball inside to LMA and Oden.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
D was improving at the end
and will improve more if Oden’s progress reports are to be believed.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Miller helps the Blazers a lot when the ball is in his hands
but he hurts them if it isn’t. Defenders will be able to sag off him b/c he’s a poor 3pt shooter.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
That is why we need Marty to be Super Marty
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't sag off Martell
teams would not defend Miller to double Greg, LA or Roy. That has nothing to do with how well Martell or Batum shoot.
My point is that Marty shooting will help replace Blake's and help spread the floor....
……for Roy and Miller.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Even with Blake out there
we still needed our SF to be a 3 pt threat. This has nothing to do with Martell, and everything to do with Blake.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
But now if Miller is on the first team with either Batum or Martell
It’ll be him getting those open three’s instead of Batum or Blake, both much better shooters.
That's why Miller plays with Rudy.
Miller is a good creator. Rudy’s the 3 pt man.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
is 7M backup money?
I would be surprised if he doesn’t start.
by oregontrail on Jul 24, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't ten years ago, but the NBA is different now.
Around 6.5 mil is considered mid-level.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
If we can play Miller with second team
That wouldn’t be too bad. I like that. But I don’t think he fits better than Blake or is an upgrade for the first team.
I would have preferred taking the flier on Sessions for his Miller+ potential, but at least they are changing things up
by Norsktroll on Jul 24, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolutley agree
If we want Miller, why didn’t we want Sessions? The only thing I can think of is Sessions would need 4 to 5 years in order to sign with us, where as Miller apparently only needs 2. The summer of Fiscal Responsibility continues.
www.freeoden.com Coming soon
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jul 24, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
and Brandon
Roy asked for veteran help in his exit interview
and the backup PF position still remans to be filled…by another veteran
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Miller is a much better quarterback
Seasoned. tough, good decision maker, good leader.
Miller is sort of a poor man’s Billups. Not as good a defender, nor as good of shooter, but the same savvy and a good scorer.
Let’s hop Miller can help us as much as Billups helped Denver
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
So is Sessions. But I agree that Miller is an improvement.
Miller 20.9, opponent 17.9, assist % 30.2
Session 20.6, opponent 14.1, assist % 34.6
Both are good passers and scorers off picks, Sessions already better imho. But maybe they feared missing out on both when the Bucks match and Miller goes to the Knicks or something like that.
Must confess I'm less familiar with Session's game than Miller's
I am surprised by the stats you posted. I didn’t realize that Sessions was that good as a distributor.
Do you think this means that KP and Nate have given up on Bayless, or do you think they are just trying to buy time to let him develop?
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
The latter. Bringing in a young point guard like Conley, Sessions, Lawson, etc. would rather have signaled that they are very unsure, and want to have them battle it out. I still think they aren’t sure, but that they have confidence in him.
by Norsktroll on Jul 24, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you nailed it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
KP believes in Bayless
I keep telling you guys that.
This is rent-a-PG for two years to improve us now and mentor Jerryd for the future.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Mentor=take minutes away from development
Bayless is not going to amount to much in Portland, or he’s going to become a SG like all signs point to.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll see
I think this impacts his minutes this year only. Next year, Blake’s contract is up, and he and Miller divide the time.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
It's also possible
that Blake goes in a trade. He’s an expiring contract, as is Travis. We could still use a dependable backup PF.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
If Bayless amounts to anything in Portland
he’ll be a PG on defense and a score-first combo guard on offense. That didn’t change today. What may have changed is that he’ll have to either beat out Blake for minutes or wait another year to play.
How's Bayless learn to play PG sitting on the bench for 2 years?
PG is the toughest position to learn. He will just sit and be frustrated. Nothing good would come from that.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
But they can't just give him a rotation spot at PG.
What about his teammates?
I can see it all now
Bayless sitting on a folding chair in the PF with his head down, then KP approaches and puts his arm around Jerryd’s shoulders, while he gently explains to Rex the “facts of NBA life”
(very similar situation with Sergio for the last 2 years…)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
What it comes down to...
Ultimately, Miller is a shot creator. He will take pressure off Roy and will likely be better at getting the ball to Oden. It’s a good move.
We'll see
I do agree, especially if marty comes back we’ll have Him, Roy, Rudy, Blake?, Batum, Travis?, etc. all able to launch from distance, but I don’t know, maybe Miller will be perfect for the 2nd unit? Bayless? CONFUTATIS
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
my first reaction: how about Bayless?
If we bring in Miller then almost certainly Blake is kept as he complement Miller well. Then how about Bayless? I am not one of those enthusiastic fans on the Bayless bandwagon but I do feel we have to give the kid a chance to compete for a stable backup PG role with ~15 min playing time. With Miller and Blake in front of him, he would have 0% chance to even be considered to compete for the backup PG.
That’s another reason I like Hinrich better – Bayless’ style complement his. So we can upgrade PG while still being able to develop Bayless by sending out Blake.
Or maybe some other trades will be coming to clear out the PG logjam and SF logjam as well?
Or maybe some other trades will be coming to clear out the PG logjam and SF logjam as well?
I’d be shocked if this is the last transaction before training camp
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Shocked?
Not me. If we go into the season like this, we’ll be much, much better.
But I do expect KP to try to get a backup PF.
This does also make either Blake or Bayless more expendable if they are needed to make a deal for a really high quality SF.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
It doesn't make Blake expendable. We can't rely on Bayless as a backup PG
and we need a backup PF. We have Outlaw + Bayless expendable to get a good backup PF.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Not everybody agrees with you. The question is whether or not KP does.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
If Blake goes, I expect we’ll get another vet backup in case of problems.
I think Outlaw+Bayless is a HUGE price to pay for a backup PF who will play 12 mpg.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
if that PF can win you a playoff series
by filling in, in case of injury or foul trouble, or if he can help neutralize a tough opponent that LMA can’t handle alone, he would be worth it
always keep the playoffs in your mind, because theat’s where Portland is headed for the next 10+ years and that’s how the team’s success will be judged for decades afterwards
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
IMHO, you are arguing against yourself
If we are thinking long term, and expecting to get to the playoffs ten years in a row, why would we keep the solid 29 year old journeyman Blake, over the outstanding 20 year old prospect Bayless?
Thinking for the long term suggests trading Blake and keeping Bayless with a low priced 3rd string vet as insurance.
by upper left corner on Jul 25, 2009 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions
the forward position has been the offseason target, and it has not been addressed
Martell is coming back, KP intimated that clearly last night on 1080
Outlaw would have to accept a major drop in PT to remain in Portland, I think he and Brandon already said their “goodbyes” back when Hedo was offered the 5/50
Bayless may or may not be gone, but I think Travis is the next domino, and there is still a need to add “toughness” to the roster
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree
except that I think the trade will come at the trade deadline halfway through the season. There will be a team that flounders and sacrifices assets, and this team will want to trade with the Blazers. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
Great news.
I was worried about the PG rotation next year. Miller will give us something new on offense. He’s a great fast break PG and a decent playmaker with the ball. He’ll take pressure off Roy and create opportunities for LMA/Oden. His defense won’t stop any elite PGs, but he can’t be any worse then Sergio or Blake.
The only thing I worry about is that sometimes he goes into chuck mode. He’ll bring the ball up the floor and look for a score himself. Hopefully that’s indicative of the Sixers chaotic offense and the Blazers disciplined half-court sets will temper his poor shot selection.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
yeah
we now have a legitimate NBA starting PG in Miller and an excellent backup PG in Blake… it just so happens that it may work better for Blake to play with the 1st unit. We’ll see.
This signing will definitely improve the Blazers for the next couple years.
This is not a long term solution, but KP just bought some more time to find a future PG. Maybe more time for Bayless to develop, but I’m on the side of he’ll never be anything more than a scoring backup PG. I’m happy to not deal with the Bayless apologists and haters next year.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
What this says about Bayless is a big??????????????/
KP and Nate may have given up on him and decided to trade him, or they may just be buying time for him to mature into the role they envision for him.
I have been an optimist on Bayless, but we will see.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless there are other moves, this smells a bit of desperation.
If they don’t have another deal in the works, signing Miller doesn’t make a lot of sense. I honestly think he may have a tough time knocking Blake out of the starting spot. If that’s the case 7 mil/yr for a backup pg is steep. I do think he brings some much needed distribution skills to the team, but he would be a pretty good option to double team off of. I see a lot of missed open jumpers from AM in the next couple of seasons.
Bottom line is, he is a better option than Sergio, but a much more expensive one.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
by philly420pdxhilo on Jul 24, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions
Blake will start. He's a better fit with Roy.
Miller is a better fit with Rudy. This is going to help Rudy. Miller is a better playmaker than Blake.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
there is more than a whiff of desperation surrounding this move. The sense I got upon hearing this news is that he Blazer Brass felt compelled to do something… anything… after losing out on Hedo and Millsap.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the Blazers would have been OK going into the season with the status quo. I think there still would have been room for improvement with the continued maturation of the Big Three. They already had a serviceable PG in Blake; Miller just does not seem to be all that much of an upgrade on either side of the ball. And I concur with the opinion of those (like Kevin Pelton) who are failing to see how he will fit in with this team.
Bottom line: It appears that the Miller signing (if true) was a move made for the sake of making a move. Beyond that, the rationale for this signing escapes me.
I’d agree, but if he agrees to captain the second team it’s a good signing.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
OK but
$7 MM per for a backup PG is kinda spendy, methinks.
he doesn’t have to be a backup… just a large portion of his playing time could be with the second unit.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
depends on how many minutes he plays.
I do agree its a move that says KP was somewhat desperate to use the cap-space, but I don’t think 2 yrs/14 million is a terrible contract for a player of Miller’s ability. I have the same concerns about his fit as everyone though.
If it convinces Nate
to trust his bench more, and saves wear and tear on the starters, it is $7 M well spent.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
It's possible
It’s all about fit.
I don’t think Blake plays significantly more minutes, but when it comes to fit, I think Miller is a phenomenal fit with our bench players, and Blake is a better fit with the starters.
One of the best alley-oop passers in the league. As one case in point (there are others), who do you want him playing with, Rudy or Roy?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Blake might be the better fit with Roy
Miller is almost certainly the better fit with Oden. Nate’s got some options.
Yes
But with Oden it might not matter that much. If he starts, he’ll get some points. But which one would be more likely to set up Joel for a few easy buckets on the second unit, Miller or Blake?
Which one is going to be more likely to create easy fastbreak points off of a Joel rebound, Miller or Blake? We almost play four on five with Joel on the court on the offensive end, but if we run off of his blocked shots and rebounds, that doesn’t matter as much.
To me, Andre looks like a phenomenal fit with our bench, at least part of the time. He gives us at least 3 starter-quality guys on our bench.
I’m sure Andre will play with the starters some. We can give a lot of different looks.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
to me the main point is that Miller is a much better player than Blake
so regardless of who starts, Miller should play more minutes.
yes
Damon played more minutes than Greg Anthony, but GA was on the floor in the 4th quarter
another nice thing about MIller/Blake “splitting” the time at PG, they should both be well-rested throughout the season and into the playoffs
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Miller can get to the basket
and draw the foul. Takes major pressure off Broy. Sets the offense for you. Seems under control all the time. Coach Nate’s type of player. KP probably wanted Hedo and Millsap. Coach Nate probably wanted Dre.
Snake is right
Andre Miller is an infinitely better fit with not only Oden, but also LaMarcus. If even 25% of his pick and pop 18 footers turn into pick and roll layups/dunks, that’ll mean a huge boost in his production.
Besides, how many times over the past two years did we get in huge holes early because we couldn’t run our offense through Roy the entire game. If Miller helps us get rid of that problem, that will be huge on its own.
I think Andre will be given the "opportunity" to start
but Blake will have something to say about it, during training camp and preseason. Competition is a good thing
when we’re talking about veterans, it doesn’t matter which player has the larger salary, if Nate thinks the starting lineup works better with Blake next to Brandon, he’ll go that way. I do expect Miller to get more than 24 minutes per game, regardless of who starts (or finishes) the game
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
A 2-year contract is very reasonable
If the Blazers went out and overpaid for a guy like Corey Maggette 5 years $50 million, then I think the word desperation may apply. Miller is a huge upgrade over Blake, Sergio, and Bayless.
It’s up to McMillan to implement Miller’s skills into the offense.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
this team is full of athletes… even Brandon is a decent fastbreak player when off the ball. If Miller can get them running, then watch out.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we shouldn't assume
that it is the last move of the summer.
Miller was not my first choice, either. But I don’t know, KP doesn’t strike me as the type to make desperation moves.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Not necessarily. Miller originally wanted 3yrs/30 mil
That was too much. Getting him for 2/14 with a team option is a relative bargain.
Miller isn’t a perfect fit. Too old. Not good enough as a defender or shooter. But he is definitely a substantial upgrade over Blake. Miller will make the team run better, and make us much less reliant on jump shooting to score. He can press tempo. He can get the ball to the bigs. He does everything better than Blake except shoot from distance.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
IMO this will help the Blazers the most if Miller comes off the bench
Roy needs the shooting that Blake provides in the starting line up and with Miller and Rudy in the back court our bench will be an even better offensive machine.
www.freeoden.com Coming soon
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jul 24, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions
I think that is yet to be determined.
Nate needs to see it on the floor. I think if Marty can come back and take over some of the spreading the floor responsibility, Miller can be a good fit next to Roy.
by upper left corner on Jul 24, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Well lets look at it this way.
We got rid of sergio, and we get miller in the return who is much better than sergio in every way.
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
except his shot
which even sergio’s was bad.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Only his 3-pt. shot.
All the other shots within that range, he’s actually over 50% with.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
The least efficient shot
is the mid-range jumper, and our offense is built on efficiency (e.g. the 3 pointer). But 21%?? 21%??? Is it just a mental thing, because i’m going to assume that there is nothing magical about the 3 point line, and that he has trouble with his shot at range.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
You're not saying you want this to be a 3 point shooting team, are you?
That’s the first sure way to guarantee you’re not going to win a title. Winning basketball comes from the inside-out.
If he helps this team by finding other open shooters and by getting the ball to Greg down low in good spots, I don’t care if he shoots 10% from 3.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
Umm your logic is outdated
The top 3 point shooting teams are the top teams in the NBA these days.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Really?
3 pt. shooting rankings
Lakers – 19th
Orlando – 7th
Orlando lived and died by the 3 in the playoffs, and it got them far, but it’s not the real way to win titles. You can’t be one dimensional like that.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
Really? Read Oden's links below you
And guess what. In the playoffs the Lakers did hit the 3 ball thanks to Ariza going completely crazy.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
i don't need links to know what i seen
and i seen the lakers dominate inside, esp. gasol
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
So you will ignore fact and rely on memory instead
Okay then.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
No i'll go with my gut thank you
logic is for pansies.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
That statement sums up what is wrong with America.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
sorry i should have realized that joke wouldn’t get through to you, sort of like EVERYTHING ELSE EVERYONE IS SAYING today.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
Yeah sorry, but you weren't joking.
You typically do cite what you see.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
i've backed up words with stats before
but on here, most people know the stats by and large already, i don’t need to link to 82 games to prove that neither sergio nor bayless were very efficient or consistent, or outplayed there competition on average, it’s common knowledge.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
Word
Sergio was like a negative 1 and Bayless was a negative 5. Nobody else but Outlaw and Frye could claim to be negative.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
We have no shortage of 3 pt shooters
Roy, Blake, Webster, Rudy, Trout, and Nic. Six players in the rotation. Did I miss someone? Is Dre’s lack of 3 point shooting really an issue with this team?
Ariza was nuts in the playoffs, agreed.
But that’s not at all why they won the title, and you know it.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
I disagree
Without Ariza’s 3 point shooting they could very well lose 2 of those games against Denver and Orlando.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then.
The Orlando series was won before it started. I don’t think they needed Ariza’s huge performance to win against Denver either, though it certainly didn’t hurt.
The point is, while having consistent three point shooting is nice, it’s not the sole way to win games and in fact many title winning teams, including the most recent one, did not win by bombing away from outside.
I’m not saying I want Portland to abandon the 3. I’m saying that it’s not a tragedy that our new PG isn’t the next Reggie Miller. We’ve got outside shooting already. Miller doesn’t need to bring that to the table for Portland to be successful.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
Won before it started?
You do realize that two of those games went into OT and both were favoring Orlando in regulation. The series could easily have been 3-2 Orlando. It was not “won before it started.”
You are simply choosing to ignore fact to follow tradional thinking. This isn’t “agree to disagree” this is you thinking that the world is flat because everyone says it is. Good day sir.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Just because you believe a certain school of thought, it doesn't make it "fact".
It makes it one way of seeing the game.
Game 2 was close all the way, Orlando was never that far out in front. Game 4 there was more of a rally by the Lakers, but they led in the 4th quarter before Orlando went on a run. You’re making it sound like Ariza’s three point shooting is what saved the Lakers.
By the way:
In the Lakers four wins: 15.75 threes attempted, 6 made.
In the Lakers one loss: 23 threes attempted, 8 made.
Good day sir.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
5 game sample size FTW?
Also, you do realize that 6/15.75 is a higher percentage made than 8/23 right? Weird how that works.
Oh there is also this.
Parker/Wade//Lebron/Duncan/Howard.
This would be an awful 3 point shooting team and yet they’d win NBA titles like woah. There is OBVIOUSLY more to the game than 1 aspect and you can OBVIOUSLY win lacking any 1 aspect. However, when you choose to pick 1 example that doesn’t obey a rule and cite that as your end all, you just show your total lack of knowledge about the subject.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
So now disagreeing with you shows a lack of knowledge?
This is why I don’t get into debates like this very often. It always degrades into that same lame insults.
You’re still failing to understand my original point, which is that you don’t need to be an outstanding 3 point shooting team to win in the NBA. It is a way of winning, but it is NOT the only one and not necessarily the best one.
This year, teams that shot more threes did have better records in the regular season. In the playoffs, the best three point shooting team didn’t win. Is that always going to be the case? Of course not. But it happens more than you would seemingly like to admit. I only cited the stats from the finals because you basically said that without Ariza’s three point shooting, the Lakers would have been in trouble against the Magic. The stats show that in that series, they actually won games where they shot fewer three point shots.
This will be my last post on this subject and I’m not going to end it with a swipe at you. You’re a Blazer fan like I am and we just happen to have different ideas about how to win ball games.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
This isn't a debate
STATS AND FACT clearly show that hitting 3s wins you games. You can cite all the examples you want to go against this, but the norm is that shooting 3s and making 3s = wins.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
The Spurs couldn't have won their championships without superb 3 point shooting from Tony Parker.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
i don't know, the lakers won it all
and clearly their inside rebounding and scoring dominance was a primary factor. and of course Kobe’s massive massive balls, and phil jackson is an alien.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
ummm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090327
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry here's the quote
In fact, few stats correlate better with winning than 3-point attempts
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't need 5 3-pt shooters.
You need someone to create open 3-pt shots. Rudy’s (and Webster’s if he comes back) 3-pt percentage will improve with Miller creating shots for them.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
right
how good of a 3 point shooter is Rondo? But Rajon creates plenty of open shots for better shooters
if Miller can hit an open shooter who then hits the 3 pointer, then who cares what Andre’s 3pt% is?
And Roy could easily be one of those guys spotting up behind the arc and waiting for the pass, as well…that’s a lot less wear and tear on Brandon if he doesn’t have to be the sole “creator”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
What is the deal with Portland fans/media and the 3 point shot? Let me try to get something through everyone’s head.
3pt % of top PGs in NBA last season/career
Devin Harris – 29%/31%
Jason Kidd – 41%/34%
Derrick Rose – 22%/22%
Rajon Rondo – 31%/27%
Deron Williams – 31%/36%
CP3 – 36%/34%
And sense some people loved Brooks so much in that Houston series:
Aaron Brooks – 37%/36%
Miller was 28%/21% but he shot a total of 53 attempts last year. Meaning most of those attempts were last second shot clock, or last second quater heaves. The guys game is getting to the rim, and Coach Nate will love that about him, and change the way this team plays accordingly. Blake is a good back up because of his 3 point shot, but he only shoots 41% or so over all, that is HORRIBLE!
Miller hits 46% for his career overall, because he gets to the rim, gets fouled, and makes plays for his teammates, all things Blake can’t do. This is a good pick up for the team. He may be getting older, but his last two seasons where 2 of his top 3 ever. Plug him into PDX’s offense and this guy will make Oden and LMA much much better, as well as get Roy easier shots.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 24, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
not really a response to theodenator
just adding to the discussion about his 3point %.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
forgot to add
Tony Parker to this list
29% last season/31% for his career.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
miller is a much better shooter than sergio. except for 3 range ofcourse. they both suck on that
i like the fact miller shoots around 47% for his career. thats pretty good for PG
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
sergio's true 3 point percentage isn't THAT bad
deflated due to chucks from half court at the end of periods. but, his shot still looks flat and awful though.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
Look at it this way
The Blazers are shooting for a championship this season, not 2-3 years down the road. Miller is young enough to help us with that.
This is important.
No more wasting Brandon Roy’s career. It is time to go for it. Now. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
now what happens
do we dangle bayless out there and see what we get, an maybe throw in Travis to get a back up 4. i like our SF’s if we see that we need to upgrade we can make a trade before the deadline
Exactly. Bayless + Outlaw = Good Backup 4
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller is getting 2 years + 1 option
Bayless isn’t going anywhere unless it is for something very good. As of right now, Bayless is still the PG of the future
www.freeoden.com Coming soon
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jul 24, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's time to be realistic about Bayless, and that is that
he is an undersized shooting guard with capable passing skills, and amazing physical gifts. He is NOT and will NOT be a point guard. Period. How many guys have come through the association with this skill set that evolved into even decent point guards? I am of the opinion that point guards are born, not created.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
by philly420pdxhilo on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the end of the Bayless as PG experiment.
He will get less time next year than last year because Blake+Miller is MUCH better than Blake+Sergio. If Bayless doesn’t play he can’t possibly learn to be a PG, which he obviously isn’t now. There is no point in keeping him sitting on the bench, it isn’t good for him or the team as he fumes about not playing.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Bayless=natural 2
His talent lies in the 2. It was obvious when Pooh was playing in the Vegas games. Pooh was better than Bayless at the point? Something is wrong there.
the roster still needs a #3 PG
and if KP doesn’t find what he considers to be fair value for Bayless in a deal, they’ll keep him around just like they did with Sergio
for Jerryd’s sake let’s hope he has another GM who really likes him and has something that KP wants
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Miller was simply the best (unrestricted) FA option left out there.
We needed a better second option at PG than Bayless in any case.
Miller may have questionable defensive and outside shooting abilities, but we are getting him for nothing but money, and he’s got a steady game and Nate is going to love what he brings. All in all, it’s not going to make us world champs, but I like what this brings us, both short term (a solid PG option) and long term (good mentoring for our young players.)
Portland Trail Blazers, Future World Champions 2010-2021.
I assume this means Blake or Bayless is going to be traded. My bet is Blake goes. If we trade Bayless, who takes over when Miller is gone? I expect Miller is a stopgap for the next couple of years while Bayless develops.
Bayless is not ready to be our back-up pg
and you generally want three pg’s on your roster in case of injuries. I think this is the last move of the offseason.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 24, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I think KP tries to upgrade at backup PF, still
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think this is the last move of the offseason
Tell me if I’m wrong, but did you think yesterday that there would be any moves before training camp?
Outlaw is not going to begin the season on the Blazer’s roster, there aren’t enough minutes to go around for Trav
and Bayless could be dealt and a different #3 PG brought in (Jeter, etc) I don’t think KP is finished
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
?
Who do you have penicilled in as our back-up 4? Because I have Outlaw…
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
Perhaps Pendergraph
But I expect KP will try to upgrade here.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Pendergraph getting time over Outlaw?
You’re not really saying that are you?
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
You got it right
Trout will be the back-up PF if Webster is healthy. Pendergraph is a rook on a playoff team. His main contribution will be carrying the teams bags.
In some situations
You already suggested Outlaw, the other possibility is Pendergraph, which could happen depending on matchups.
Like I said, I think KP will try to upgrade, but I don’t know if he will succeed.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I hope you have an eraser
Outlaw is used to having 25 minutes a game
Webster is coming back, Batum will be playing more, Rudy needs his minutes and now we know they won’t be coming at PG
Travis can play 10 minutes per game behind LMA, or he can find a new NBA home
I think KP already has a deal in mind for #25, like to Memphis for a draft choice? That was Givony’s rumor last week, if the Jazz had let Millsap walk.
I don’t have a name for backup PF, yet. But I suspect there will be another veteran banger added to the roster before training camp
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Good News
Although I’d rather have Hinrich and I question Miller’s outside shot and defense, this comes at the right length and price.
Bayless is clearly not cutting it as a PG and doesn’t seem to have McMillan’s trust.
Look at the improvement year over year
Essentially, we swapped Sergio – a not quite there backup PG, for Miller, a clear starting caliber PG. That alone is a huge improvement. Whether Miller or Blake start, we have the best back-up PG in the league ready to run the second unit.
If we want to run and post up – it’s Miller time.
If we want to spread the floor – it’s the Blake show.
If we want a slasher – Bayless gets minutes.
This creates troubling match-ups for other teams, and much more versatility for Nate.
lets be realistic we wont put bayless in just for a slasher
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
unless it's garbage time
or one of the veteran PGs is dinged up
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
TIME TO LOAD UP ON ANDRE MILLER YOUTUBE HIGHLIGHTS
except for the whooping derrick rose gave him last year ofcourse
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
I want to revisit the one where AM picks Jarrett Jack
and takes it in for a layin at the buzzer, I’m sure I’ll feel differently about that play now then i did back then
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We have 2 interesting options
Miller > Blake. This much is obvious.
However
Miller, Roy, Batum, LMA, Oden doesn’t give us much of a 3 point threat. Miller/Roy could create loads of shots for Oden/LMA though.
This leaves
Blake, Rudy, Webster, Outlaw(?), Przybilla. Now this team CAN SHOOT. We’ll be launching 3s all night long and hitting a good deal of them. That’s pretty 1 dimensional though.
We could run same starting lineup as last year, with Miller/Rudy/Webster second unit. We still have good outside shooting with a playmaker.
Miller > Blake, but would Blake starting be the better option still?
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
that’s how I see this…… Miller is an obvious and terrific fit in the second unit, but he’s a starting-caliber player.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Our second unti is going to be ridiculous either way
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
by Zaig on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
can you imagine Andre-Rudy-Martell-Travis-Oden/Przy? That is an insane running lineup…. absolutely sick.
life is better as an optimist
by Cablinasian on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
our second unit even after whatever trades happen will be crazy, it will consist of some mix of Joel, Batum, Rudy, Bayless, Outlaw, Blake and maybe even two of the rooks.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
end of game offense
I expect Blake to be in the corner when it matters, and the ball to be in Roy’s hands
but maybe there will be less need for late-game heroics, because Miller will be gettin’ it DONE during quarters 1-3?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You can't ever have too many shooters.
Rudy can create penetration. Outlaw (assuming he’s still around) can post up and create his own shot. That creates plenty of chances for the other guys to stroke it from deep.
Portland Trail Blazers, Future World Champions 2010-2021.
Rudy can create penetration
no, that is not his strength. Maybe if the weak-side defense is scrambling he can pump fake and drive, but he has no crossover to speak of
and I hope we’ve seen the last of Outlaw’s “burp it up” style of offense in a Blazer uniform. Trav was clutch, but the reason he had to be clutch is the baskets and rebounds that he surrendered earlier in the game!
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I see Webster
taking his starting spot back from Batum to add some 3 point shooting to the line up, and some defense to the second unit. Remember before last seasons injury, the team was saying that Webster was growing into the defensive anchor on the team.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Agreed
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed
but KP was on 1080 yesterday saying that getting Webster back would be “just like a FA signing” so that makes me think they know Marty’s gonna be ready by September
we should know in about a month when the players start scrimmaging against each other at the PF (or sooner, if Travis is traded…)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
put marty in strarting line up
and add some defense by puttin batum in the second unit
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
Nate was subbing differently though...
Remember that we aren’t just a first and second team. Nate left LMA in longer, then brought Brandon back in so that one or the other was almost always in. Our end of the half and game crew was different too. Our starters were in for a reason: Batum to establish the D, and the start of the game minutes worked out best for him. Etc.
I see Miller starting becuase he will prove to be a better distributor to Oden and LMA. But Blake will finish the half due to his shooting. I think the end of the game will be variable who is in depending on the situation and match ups. These two could be quite interchangable in quality but bring totally different looks.
I like this much better than Hinrichs now that I think about it. With Kirk, Blake would have been superflous. Now, it is JayBay on the line which is where he should be: prove yourself or you are trade bait. Blakey was too important to the team last year to take that risk.
I think we’re done for the offseasons though. Lee isn’t coming here, and they really want to see what Cunningham can do.
Outlaw stunk up the playoffs, but he had some huge games for us.
We’re done. Go Blazers!
With Kirk, Blake would have been superflous
I think they would’ve made a heckuva PG tandem, but that ship sailed last February and Cap’n Kirk was aboard
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I guess some wrangling must have happened between Nate and KP before this
KP loves Bayless as everybody knows. But Nate might think he is at least 2 years away from being a contributor in our lineup (his summer league performance might have convinced him that). He wants immediate upgrade even at the expense of Bayless being buried on the bench.
Finally KP concedes and makes this trade.
What they are saying now....
Nate McMillan: “Honey! Get the kids over to Granny’s house I’m bringin home some champagne!”
KP: “Keep up the good work Gregory”
Bayless: “Does this mean Philly needs a PG?”
Roy: “Throw in your yacht and we got a deal”
Blake: “At least I got a hot wife”
Outlaw: “awwww hehehe awwww you know hehehe”
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
by Kelsoballa on Jul 24, 2009 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Solid - and Doable
No one can argue about the fact that we will get 48 better minutes of point guard play next year, than we did last year. Miller is clearly an upgrade over Sergio or Bayless. We did not have to commit long term, and we kept every young player. As a result, the “team” will be a better team over-all.
This deal was also makeable. All the talk about Hinrich ignores the fact that when Gordon left, there was almost no liklihood at all that Chicago was going to trade him. At the same time, Session’s is a restricted free agent – and Minnesota can match. Let’s not forget that most restricted agents re sign with their own team – leaving the bidder out in the cold. The only way to get a restricted agent is to “outbid”, and that gets long term and very expensive.
We should also keep in mind that we have all our players back that count – plus Miller and Webster. KP can very easily make a trade now, and improve another postion.
This was simply both a practical and solid move – given the reality of the market today.
Miller will add some "W’s in the column – because he is a proven distributor. That second team will play better now.
by Eben Calder on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow, crazy times for you guys, finally! ;)
I do like Miller – he wouldn’t be my first pick fit-wise, but he can do some nice things. And it seems like a pretty reasonable contract for him.
Plus, it gives you guys a little more time to wait on Bayless. If he’s looking better playing with some quality teammates (you know, the ones he didn’t have at summer league…), you can move Blake as an expiring at mid-season or let him go next offseason. And then Bayless has 2 to 3 years to put it all together. And if turns out Bayless still isn’t improving enough at the PG skills stuff, you can either move him or hold onto him as an SG and move someone else.
And I’ll be fascinated to see how this works out style-wise.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
Inching closer to the quadrant where the best point guards are :)
Credit to Bullets Forever for the chart
That is one of the coolest graphs I have ever seen.
Paul, Nash, Williams, Parker, Harris all in the bottom right…
Would Bayless+Outlaw+Rudy+whatever cap space is left
Be able to get us an all star in return?
Very little cap space left
And probably not. The only position not totally filled in this case with be SF. Who is available?
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Rudy stays, he is what makes Miller fit.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, but remember
a slice of Rudy’s minutes are going to both Miller and Webster
I give this relationship 18-24 months, tops
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, I think a decision on Rudy comes next summer.
It depends on how his adjustment to the NBA comes to fruition this year. But he or Webster is probably gone next summer.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind flipping Rudy
for the rights to Rubio…by the time MIller is ready to hang ’em up Ricky would be ready slide into that PG role…and the beat goes on
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
their combined salary = 7.3 mil
the magic 8 ball says “no”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Well..
First of all, let’s assume a couple of things:
Blake will come off the bench.
Bayless won’t be part of our rotation and is likely to be traded. It’s clear with this move that Bayless has been found wanting at the PG position. I’m not sure what his value is now. But Blazers management clearly saw what they needed to see in Summer League.
Upside to Andre Miller:
- He’s probably a better scorer than Blake is.
- He’s definitely better at creating shots and getting his team involved than Blake is.
- He’s a career .460 shooter. That’s quite good. Blake is .410.
- He averages 4 rebounds a game as a point guard, for his career.
- He’s a decent-good defender. Certainly better than Blake is.
- The past two seasons he’s played all 82 games.
- He has playoff experience.
Downside to Andre Miller:
- He’s 33 and even with a team 3rd year option, he’d be 35.
- He’s not really known to be in the top 10-15 or so best point guards in the league. I know that sounds like a silly thing to say, but names mean a lot in this league. When you think of Andre Miller unless you’re a huge basketball fan, most people can’t go "Oh yeah, he’s that point guard from Philly that can __________, right? He doesn’t quite have a niche. Portland will be the 5th team of his career. That says something, doesn’t it?
- He doesn’t shoot the 3.
Summary:
Miller will start. He’ll start because he’s a better, more tenacious defender and likely can get Roy and LA involved more efficiently. I agree with the posters above who say Oden will benefit too. Remember that this is Oden’s “make or break” year. If he doesn’t get something done this year, people will seriously re-start the Sam Bowie talks.. and mean it.
Blake coming off the bench is pretty scary. Imagine this 2nd unit rotation.
Blake
Rudy
Webster or Outlaw
Cunningham/Pendy or someone else we pickup during the off-season. Maybe a journeyman.
Joel/Oden
The point is, that’s a really scary 3-point shooting “energy” 2nd unit. If Oden does continue coming off the bench, it will improve his scoring and opportunities dramatically. Our 2nd unit will have that Orlando Magic (from last year) look, if we want it to.
with miller starting
I think it makes it more likely that Webster will start, if hes healthy. He would make up for the shooting that Miller lacks.
by raging WebTed on Jul 24, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
Except late in the game when BRoy brings it up and runs isos and pick and pops/rolls. Then Blake spots up from three. Sub in Miller for D. Nice options.
Blake coming off the bench is pretty scary
I’m going to tell you something that someone told me, when I suggested that a Hinrich-Blake PG tandem would make some sense
Steve is not a fast-breaking PG, he wouldn’t be that great of a fit with the 2nd unit
If Miller is willing (and Nate may have already discussed this with him) you could start Blake alongside Brandon and bring Miller and Rudy in towards the end of the 1st quarter…now that would be a “scary” backcourt for NBA reserves to have to deal with…and there would be very few offensive “lulls” when Roy left the game
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
do you really think KP would let this news leak
if he didn’t have all of his ducks in a row re: Miller?
Andre has family in Portland, and to this point no one has heard about his wife making noise about wanting to live in another NBA city
I suspect KP has thoroughly checked under the hood and he’s not gonna get burned again, this time around
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I say we trade a first rounder, some cash, rights to koponen for luis amundsen as our backup PF
hes a straight up baller imo, hustle guy, and rebounds
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
and he looks like he man
what’s not to like?
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
I APPROVE!
veteran distributor/finisher for a year or two is a-ok with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yISxHme1m0
"I don't know Twitter" - Rudy Fernandez
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Jul 24, 2009 12:53 PM PDT reply actions
Wow, I am dissapointed in Ben...
Why would you post such a negative video about your new PG?
You should have highlight reels up not him getting his ankes busted.
Not cool
Andre Miller is an upgrade no matter how you spin things.
Big D from Blog-A-Bull - "Pritchard is such a genius that teams just give him players for free."
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 24, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No shame in getting one's ankles busted by Derrick Rose.
He’s going to be a great scoring point guard in this league.
True,
but I think that is bad form when we get the news that he about to join the squad. We want to make this a positive thing. Not Negative.
Just my opinion
Big D from Blog-A-Bull - "Pritchard is such a genius that teams just give him players for free."
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 24, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
This definitely puts you guys over the top next season
solid move by KP
Options
What are the Blazers options if this deal gets done as far as sign and trades or free agency?
well...
i think that we package bayless and trout for a back up 4 or SF
Why the video?
Bad taste. Every player has a bad moment on D. I am too disappointed. Andre Miller is an excellent passer.
by BarelyLegal on Jul 24, 2009 1:01 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just an example there are a lot more
I’m just saying posting 1 video of a 1 bad play is in bad taste.
I bet I know the pass that was
It was such a sick play, but got little recognition.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
I agree!!
It’s flat out rude. We want to see the good things Andre can do.
Not his embarassing moments.
Big D from Blog-A-Bull - "Pritchard is such a genius that teams just give him players for free."
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 24, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Check out this vid.
Andre was instrumental when the 6ers came back to beat the magic in Game 1 of this years playoffs. This guy is a pure point guard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke-ePcSss90&feature=PlayList&p=A9AA6985E1E16368&index=0&playnext=1
one thing is for sure
I think we can finally beat 76ers next season…
Pritchard:
“He’s got great savvy and leadership," Pritchard said from Team USA’s practice on Friday. "We like him as a player for sure."
Miller to Rudy connection will happen next year.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
It is basically a trade of Sergio for Miller
I can live with that.
It’ll be interesting to see how lineups and subs shake out.
Lol, yeah, in the broadest sense
Technically we traded Sergio, cash and the draft rights to Brockman for the draft rights to Pendergraph. But we can also assume we traded Sergio’s spot for Blake and added Miller.
So diasappointed ben ;)
Apparently you haven't seen Steve Blake much
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 24, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree
Every player in the NBA has youtube videos that they hate that shows them getting schooled. Im sure we could find some on any Blazer player like BROY or LMA. But why? Miller is a good player, not the best, but those videos dont prove he sucks or sucks at defense. Really they just show what happens to every player out there.
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 24, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
no one gets posterized more often then our very own Joel Przybilla
JR Smith over Joel
Kobe over Joel
Joey Graham over Joel
Vince Carter over Joel
STAT over Joel
Almost a Blazer Millsap over Joel
But of course Joel is not the only Blazers to be posterized with a dunk, Von Wafer dunking on half the team
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Can't edit comments
but the Kobe dunk is over Victor not Joel…it is labeled wrong on youtube.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I love Joel
because of his attitude of, “I can’t block it if I don’t go after it”. Only good shot blockers get posterized alot.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
This is cool, nice contract
Now Blake can be a backup like he should be. Poor Bayless I bet he’s pissed right now.
Is Kevin Pelton an idiot? I can see how you might not be a huge fan of the deal but ‘all wrong’ leads me to believe he doesn’t know much about our team.
Blazer Fan
Poor Bayless
If Bayless can’t beat out Andre Miller and Steve Blake than he’s just not an NBA starting point guard. That’s his fault. It’s not like he’s stuck in the shadow of an all star future-hall-of-famer type point guard. Andre and Steve are both decent, above-average journeymen. That should have Bayless chomping at the bit to prove he’s the real superstar on the team.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
It's not a powerhouse
But it’s a decent upgrade. If it’s a two year deal with opt-out in the third, I wouldn’t expect him to be a Blazer for that third year so really it’s only a 14 mil deal. Also it spells trouble for Bayless. I think this indicates the Blazers are looking to dump Rex mid-season, probably for the PF everyone seems to want. Which I have NO PROBLEMS with.
I like the move a lot, maybe there’s defense lacking, but it’s not like the Blazers have terrible defense anyway. Also, what Dre lacks, Blake makes up for, it’s a great pairing. Andre is a driving threat, Blake is a 3 point threat. Too much being focused on Dre as himself, not enough focus on what it does for the whole team.
Life is hilarious.
this indicates the Blazers are looking to dump Rex mid-season
why wait until then?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Oh and I guess the question still remains: who is the PG of the future?
Clearly the team wasn’t blown away by Bayless
Blazer Fan
Andre Miller is really gonna change the dynamics of this team for the better...
as good as Roy is in taking it to the hoop in a half court set, Andre will be the best hands down doing it in the open court.
Andre is as tough as they come at the PG position with excellent court vision. His defense might not be the best but hopefully our bigs/perimeter guys step up this year too. LMA/GO/Batum should be celebrating today as should all Blazer fans.
With Blake coming back from injury, Rex still finding his ways, and Roy not wanting to wait to contend, Andre is the right player, right now.
59 wins.
Go Blazers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Blazers!!!!!!!!!! Wooooooooooot Wooooooooooooot!!!!!!!!!
After this deal, B-Rex will start shooting to 1500 made jumpers daily instead of 1000.
First step will be setting up a cot underneath one of the baskets at the practice facility.
That is, if he hasn’t already done that yet.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
He won't stop until he can make more shots than he attempts.
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
by pualo on Jul 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Will beat out both Blake and Miller"
and eat their children?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is good news to anyone that knows basketball
Check out all the Philly fan comments on the Philly site link. Everyone of them is mad about letting him go, especially for nothing in return. They know how good he is. Unless you were unrealistically hoping for Chris Paul or Devin Harris, this is a good move. Yeah, he can’t shoot the 3. Neither can plenty of other really good guards and we have plenty of 3 point shooters anyway. It seems to me that not many people know anything about Miller because he’s been a very good guard for a while and wins games. Actually check him out first. He’s more than solid and anyone outside of Portland would laugh at the question of who’s better between him and Blake.
Guys.
Miller can score by creating his own shot. This is valuable. Just because it’s not 3’s doesn’t mean it’s not effective. And why do people think Roy can’t play off the ball a bit more? Why do people think we can’t pick up the pace of this team? Rely more on fast breaks and less on jump shots? We don’t have to be Pheonix, but we don’t have to be as slow paced as last years offense either. Most efficient offense doesn’t always mean the best. Sometimes because of our system we couldn’t get that scoring punch we needed. Miller gives us improvement in multiple areas in offense, while hurting only our 3 point shooting. Didn’t we say we’d like less 3s and more attacking?
On defense he’s no Gary Payton, but I’ve got news for you. Hinrich would not be able to keep the speedy PGs off Oden either. Sure Hinrich would improve our perimeter D overall but those guys that really got Greg in foul trouble would still do it. It’s up to Greg to improve the fouling.
The Oden to Miller to Roy fast break is going to be a thing of beauty. Just watch.
I think people question why the 2nd unit didn't run more last season
We had Sergio/Rudy/Outlaw and sometimes LMA. Seems like a runnin unit.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Sergio wasn't a fast break PG.
He comes to the ball instead of asking for an outlet pass at half court. He didn’t finish his drives so he was not a threat to score. Rudy wanted to float to the 3-point line.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Here’s a piece from Hollinger’s ESPN scouting report on Andre Miller:
“Miller might be the league’s craftiest post player, so it’s unfortunate that he’s only 6-3. He kills smaller guards on the left block by using head fakes, quick spins, and a lethal up-and-under move, and he’s very good at using the glass on short-range shots. Teams are reluctant to double him down there because he’s such a good passer.
Miller also uses a lot of those skills in transition. Despite his chunky appearance he’s an outstanding open-court player who throws the alley-oop as well as anyone who has ever played the game and is a strong finisher at the rim, especially when coming in from the left. He can’t shoot at all from long range but is a decent midrange shooter despite a flat-footed, line-drive delivery."
Not bad. His age is the main negative on him, but if we don’t give up a whole lot for him then what are we losing? What better guard does everyone think we had a chance of getting?
I Love it
I have always been a fan of Andre Miller, Who cares if he can’t shoot the rock isnt that why we have Rudy & Martell. Andre will fit in nicely. Blake & Miller make a kickass backcourt. After Bayless’s Summer League we all say he wasn’t ready to be a full time Back-up. 2-years is the time he will need. Good Signing if it goes down.
" When All else fails, Quit using all else "
Ok, lets stop comparing Sergio to Miller.
Just stop. Sergio is not half the player Miller is. They have similar basic skillsets, but Miller is better and brings so much more.
There’s a difference between trusting Sergio and trusting one of the better veteran PGs in the league.
-Miller can execute a fast break great.
-Sergio was decent but turn over prone.
-Miller has a good mid range game, decent finisher, great at passing back out.
-Sergio is streaky from anywhere, horrible finisher other than his occasional floater, easily trapped himself way too often.
-Miller can run the PnR, great entry passer, not the best 3pt shooter.
-Sergio was decent at the PnR, decent entry passer, not the best 3pt shooter.
-Miller makes smart level headed plays
-Sergio was flashy, often times too much for his own good.
While their basic skill sets may be similiar, Miller is pretty much better in every way. Miller won’t be shooting 3’s like Blake but the assumption that he can’t play in a half court system and share the ball is flat out wrong. He’s a top tier post up PG, you don’t post up in a fast break. He’s got a good stop and shoot mid range. He can finish at the rim or dish out to shooters.
He improves the team. Sergio? Not so much. And really, he’s a better shooter than Sergio.
Not sure if this is a superior KP-style move...
but if he wears the coveted red and black, I’ll root for him
Blazers win!
which game
is that play with rose and miller…I was trying to find it, but couldn’t. The games I found between the bulls and the sixers Andre generally preformed better than rose so I’m just wondering…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 1:58 PM PDT reply actions
i realize
the high school kids like the ankle breaker plays…but one play does not a game make. Ask LeBron about that…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200811300PHI.html
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
sweet!
thanks!
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Looks like they had similar games
I think Gordon/Gooden won that game, not Rose…
Rose – 40 mins, 18 pts, 5 rbs, 10 asst, 1 stl, 1 blk, 1 to, 1 pf
Miller – 33 mins, 15 pts, 1 rbs, 10 asst, 3 stl, 0 blk, 0 to, 0 pf
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 24, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It was a blowout, so it's not like 1 person won the game
Rose had some highlight plays at the end of the 1st half (blocked Andre Miller’s fastbreak layup, crossed him over), the Sixers didn’t really try that hard.
Miller figured out how to score on Rose in the next 3 games, but Derrick is so quick they usually evened out production-wise.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 24, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know that you can call it overreacting, when Bayless was the only backup PG on the team
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
KP trying to get Philly to do a sign and trade before closing this deal, two4larue?
Bayless + Outlaw + cap-space for Miller + Speights?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT reply actions
i'd love to get speights
speights and LMA in running with miller and rudy in the second unit would be tight for a up tempo game.
"Everybody is crazy. It's just some people are more upfront about it." -fanfaraway
"love is only universal if you know what to do with it" -broyposse
Andre Miller: advanced stats
PER differential vs. opposing PGs: +3.8, tied for third among point guards
Opposing PG PER: 17.1, Sixteenth in league
Net Points per 100 Possessions: +1.8 on court, -3.4 off court, +5.2 overall, ninth among point guards
Rebound percentage: 8.9%, fifteenth among point guards
Combined “close” and “dunk” assists: 351, third among point guards
Offensive win shares: 6.1, sixth among point guards
Miller is an average rebounder for his position, and though I couldn’t find any site that would let me sort eFG% by position, his 48% eFG% is slightly below average for PGs if my recollections serve me correctly (the fact that he doesn’t shoot threes well or often has a deleterious impact here).
His defensive statistics are nothing to write home about: middle of the pack in PER against, slightly below average in defensive win shares. It’s worth pointing out that Philly’s defense gets 3.7 points worse per 100 possessions when Miller is off the floor, and their defensive rebounding percentage improves by 5.8%, which is very much on the high end for point guards.
My favorite statistic on this whole list is the combined “close” and “dunks” number: 351. The only two point guards in the LEAGUE who generated more close and dunk assists last season were Deron Williams and Steve Nash. Miller had more than Rondo, more than Chris Paul, more than Derrick Rose…and he was throwing passes to Dalembert and Young for the majority of the season. This guy is going to generate a ton of easy opportunities for LMA and Greg.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Miller's trueshooting %
is 52.5% for his career, and 54.8% for last season. True shooting percentage takes FT’s into account, which is a big part of Miller’s game, (409 attempts last year). I am not sure if EFA% takes FT’s into account or not. Miller doesn’t shoot 3’s, only took 53 attempts last season, but he gets to the rim, the line and can hit the mid range jumper. All of which sets up his passing abilities to get his team mates easy looks, which your “close” and “dunk” stat supports.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Do you know if there's a site
where I can sort all the players in the league by TS%? I don’t think you can on 82games.com.
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
a few more
True Shooting %: .548, 21st among PGs (Blake .557, Sergio .491)
PER 18.71, 12th among PGs (Blake 14.49, Sergio 12.51)
WP48 0.184 (as of midseason, I can’t find the end of season data). Blake was at 0.144. Miller’s WP48 would have ranked 3rd on the Blazers last year after Joel and Roy.
WARP: 9.9 (Blake’s was 3.3, albeit in quite a few less minutes)
2 year adjusted plus/minus: 5.06 (yikes). His raw plus/minus was good last year- looks like his adjusted p/m dings him for playing with good players?
Statistical plus/minus: +3.61 (that’s really good— 2nd on Philly behind Iggy; would have been 2nd on Portland behind Roy).
Overall, the advanced stats like him a lot.
by jksnake99 on Jul 24, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the additions
did you get statistical plus minus from Hollinger too? Also, can you please explain to me in a nutshell what Roland Rating is?
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I get statistical plus minus from the basketball-reference blog
link
link to the data from last year
I don’t know what the roland rating is— maybe someone like trk or polisam does.
TY sir
The Michael Ruffin of BlazersEdge, cuz Amlmart said so.
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 24, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
The main components of the ‘Roland Ratings’ are a production measure (a variant of John Hollinger’s PER rating) for a player’s own stats versus the counterpart player on the other team while he is on the court, as well as a simple on court/off court plus minus.
-82games
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
So simplified it's something like
(PER – opp PER) + (+/- on court – +/- off court)
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
Not a blockbuster deal but...
A guy that can flat out play. Playoff numbers too.
Looks basically like a 2-year rental. Quality rental.
Enough with the 3-point stat moaning – we have more chuckers than the YMCA on the squad. Another penetrating option that saves Roy a few collisions and trips to the floor, and someone that will really make some things happen for Greg and Aldridge. (Kinda makes the mouth water.)
Well, for better or worse, it looks like he’s ours, so suit up and get in there my man and lob it to Rudy!
I'm not excited about this deal but then
I haven’t been excited about any other deals discussed on BE this summer. The team could not afford to go into the year with two pg’s, let alone those two being Blake and Bayless. Now they have three pg’s, the 3rd a developing youngster. I doubt Bayless is going anywhere, folks, or that they’ve given up on him.
Of the realistic choices, Miller for essentially two years unless things are going very good is just as good as any deal as I’ve seen out there for a pg. So on the whole I think it’s a good, solid move, just nothing to get all worked up about.
The success of the season is still going to boil down to people staying healthy and Oden making a substantial improvement. That alone could get the team to 60 wins regardless of new point guards, backup pf’s or anything else.
New Summer Scorecard from Chad Ford has the Blazers @ #10 (up from 19 I believe)
Link: Ford’s take on KP’s summer moves.
Kevin Pritchard is the most active GM in the league. That’s why it’s such a shock to see him striking out this summer. The Blazers made a huge pitch to Hedo Turkoglu but were left at the altar for the more cosmopolitan Raptors. Then they gave a huge $32 million offer sheet to Paul Millsap, only to see the Jazz match it a few days later. They also made a run at a David Lee sign-and-trade, but could not get the Knicks to cooperate.
The Blazers’ draft was a disappointment, as well. Pritchard tried to move up high in the draft but couldn’t. He ended up taking Spanish forward Victor Claver, who won’t play in the league for at least the next two years.
However, on Friday, Pritchard worked out a deal with veteran point guard Andre Miller, who is the calming presence the team was looking for. He won’t be the leader of the team, but his steadiness combined with his ability to post up other guards will come in handy. Signing Miller isn’t a home run for Pritchard, but it’s a solid upgrade over Steve Blake.
Great thoughts...
He’s not a home run, but he’s a relative bargain for 2 years that will ease the pressure on all our young bucks…
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jul 24, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
It's Miller time!
Obviously, the simple solution is to play Bayless at the backup Power Forward slot.
Voila… A+ summer for KP!!!
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jul 24, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions
Blazers announce Andre Miller has been signed.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Thanks Annie
hehe
Elizabeth had a partner and he had a rap from the cops, Him and Lenny Suckerpunch were just out Tooling around
by Lizzy Lowblow on Jul 24, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Lizzy!
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Annie!
I’ve been to the pub and back. LOL
Elizabeth had a partner and he had a rap from the cops, Him and Lenny Suckerpunch were just out Tooling around
by Lizzy Lowblow on Jul 24, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Please tell me it's just a bad trip...
maybe the chocolate&mayonnaise dinner taking its toll…
So: goodbye cap space forever, and so much for adding that final piece that a) fits the roster, b) fits the championship window, c) puts us over the top.
Let’s see: they were looking for a veteran PG with defense and solid shooting (probably crossing fingers in the hope that Bayless can grow up as the prettiest Cinderella on the dance floor in a couple of years)…
well, I guess that for the “veteran” part we’re settled… (as for the Bayless part – his pumpkin is already waiting outside: as it is, Blake is no more expendable.)
What can you get now from Bayless in a (not lopsided) trade is to be guessed.
But what really puzzles me is that apparently they ruled out Sessions for being a bad fit, while they could now have for the same price (Milwaukee almost surely wouldn’t match) a 10 years younger Miller with a very nice upside, perfectly fitting the time window, instead of a “two year rental”.
As it has been said, Miller is (how longer?) a good player, just not the one we needed: a nice addition on the right, aging, contending team going for that final sprint… not for the Blazers.
In the end it even puts in a painful perspective the “blessing in disguise” argument that followed Turkoglu’s turnaround: it’s hard to compare the two players in terms of usefulness to the team…
No, it definitely has to be the mayonnaise…
PS Greetings from Italy to everyone, this is my first post on such a wonderful site!
PPS Rest assured that i’m fully on the bandwagon (even with Miller…)
Wecome to the wagon
Elizabeth had a partner and he had a rap from the cops, Him and Lenny Suckerpunch were just out Tooling around
by Lizzy Lowblow on Jul 24, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Welcome!!!! :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
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