The Jerryd Bayless Gamble
by Dave on Jul 21, 2009 12:36 AM PDT
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PrintComing off of Summer League the hottest non-trade, non-free-agent, non-Roy-contract Blazer issue is the progress (or lack thereof) of second-year point guard Jerryd Bayless. In other words, if you're going to talk about the on-court performance of someone who's actually a Blazer right now, J-Bay is your guy.
How much is he your guy? I guess that depends on what you're looking for.
We surely saw a different Jerryd Bayless in this year's Summer League than last. He appeared to have a better sense of who he was and what his job was. For the most part, turnovers and occasional spazzing aside, he played with control and awareness. We got a little less of the one-track freight train this year. That was bad for his scoring (as that train wasn't going to be stopped) but good for his point guard development. "Decision making" by definition involves more than one option. Whether he executed perfectly or not, Bayless recognized more possibilities on the floor last week than he showed last year.
Those wishing for more would do well to look at the calendar, which reads about two months since the Blazers' 2008-09 campaign ended. There's a temptation to draw a clear dividing line between seasons, expecting Bayless to play like a second-year guy now. In reality I don't expect eight weeks to make a huge difference, especially when the skills being developed are point guard-oriented. It's hard to practice those outside of the team structure. I'd expect Jerryd to develop more during the regular season than the break, at least in that vein. The jump shot's a summer project. Becoming a floor general, not so much.
That said, it was still jarring to see how far Bayless has yet to go, especially considering right now he's penciled in as the top reserve at his position. (I expect that to change before the season starts.) Whatever you think of his potential, I think it's fair to say at this point that point guard is not Jerryd's natural position, or at least that it's far more natural by height than inclination. With last week's increased recognition came increased processing time. You could almost see the wheels turning inside his head. Apparently opponents could read them as well, judging by the forced miscues. You just can't spin that many turnovers at the Summer League level as a positive, or even barely encouraging. You want to argue this guy is ready to be an NBA player? I could see that. You want to argue this guy is ready to be an NBA point guard? Yeesh. It's going to be a painful process.
So how are the Blazers and their fans supposed to regard Bayless? What are they supposed to do with him?
There are tons of reasons to take a chance on Bayless. His body is great. His defense is good. His rim-scoring ability is awe-inspiring. He's as athletic as you could wish. He's a workaholic. He's aggressive. When he's at his best, usually with the ball on the way to the hoop, he's downright awe-inspiring. All of this comes from a kid who really doesn't have a clue what he's doing yet.
There are also reasons to be suspicious of Jerryd. Right now the Blazers have to use him as a point guard and he's not one. Point guard is a difficult position to play even when you're born and bred to it. Successful converted point guards are rare. While inspiring, Jerryd's offensive game is like a song with two chords...and they're both E-major. He doesn't have a jump shot. Opponents are going to play him for the drive until he develops one. Jerryd's intensity can be a double-edged sword. He can sometimes be his own worst enemy emotionally. The step from there to becoming a problem/distraction is short...not intentionally, but simply because your drama and angst are overshadowing everything else. Bayless isn't going to take a Travis Outlaw-like leisurely career arc with the Blazers. You won't see seven years pass while he figures things out. He's either going to blow up huge or flame out.
What does this add up to? Jerryd is the Blazers' long-shot. If he is able to man the one position, especially if he can learn to play with Roy, he could become a dominant player. Roy would slice and dice you while Bayless came down like thunder on your heads. Add the defense and physicality and you've got yourself a backcourt for the ages. But the chances of him getting there are slim.
Recall what we said a couple months ago about this year's draft. I argued if the Blazers were going to use a pick, whether it was in the 20's or something they traded up for, they needed to take a gamble. This team has enough pretty good guys. They have enough depth. They should roll the dice and go for the long-shot superstar, knowing it's not going to cost them if they fail. The team is good enough now to absorb the risk, to chance a little failure in order to catch lightning in a bottle. That's exactly what Jerryd is.
At this point Bayless is a low-cost experiment with a high-ceiling potential reward. The Blazers spent the 13th pick in last year's draft and Jarrett Jack on him. Neither of those assets was irreplaceable or even crucial. It's not like he was the #2 pick in the draft, expected to reverse the fate of the franchise. If Jerryd flunked out entirely Portland would still be in the exact position it's in right now: really needing another point guard to round things out. There's no downside to having him on the team. In fact the Blazers are better off having a couple of their supporting players to carry exactly that kind of promise and risk...the hares-apparent next to the Przybilla-Blake tortoise types.
Consider also that the roster pieces around Jerryd may change over the next couple of years. Obviously Brandon Roy going anywhere would be a wrecking-ball restructuring of the backcourt. But if Rudy Fernandez is traded or simply takes his game back to Spain in frustration then minutes open up behind Brandon. Bayless will never make a starting shooting guard in this league but adding 12 minutes of reserve duty against opposing second units wherein his main job description was to score all of a sudden makes him a near full-time player.
The alternative scenario to that one is Jerryd himself becoming part of a deal. As long as he's perceived to have potential that's untapped, even if that potential is mostly scoring, he'll have value.
Either way, Bayless doesn't necessarily have to become the Blazers' starting point guard for the next decade to make him worth the roster spot right now. He may be a dicey proposition, but the Blazers' current combination of need and risk tolerance make him a chance worth taking. They'll hold on to him with a loose grip and see what happens. That's the money move here.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Bayless is a great gamble, really the best kind.
Hard to think of a better low-risk, potentially high-reward player for the blazers right now.
and he is only 2 years out of high school. He’s been the youngest player on the summer league roster 2 years in a row. i keep telling people to give him time but i do know its hard to have patience as a blazer fan but give bayless some time. i don’t see how anyone can’t see a very bright potential with bayless
by Crushin Beers on Jul 21, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Dave, your last paragraph echoes my thoughts exactly!
I’ve taken the ‘wait and see’ and see approach, and while I know that Rex is an unbelievable scoring threat, I can’t put much stock into his playmaking abilities… YET.
Time will tell, but I am in total agreement: Don’t drink the Kool-aid until all the water is added. Drink it before it’s ready and you risk a bad taste in your mouth.
Bayless has a future in the NBA, but where and what position, well, the jury is still out. I hope the verdict is in our favor, because pairing him with Rudy and Martell behind the arc will cause the league to fear seeing “Por” on their schedule.
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Jul 21, 2009 1:13 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Unbelievable scoring threat
There are a TON of these guys in the league that I would never want. When Bayless becomes an “efficient scoring threat” then I will be more than happy to see him play. I will pass on the Baron Davis, Jamal Crawford, Allen Iverson types.
The Princess of Blazersedge
While there are a lot of scoring threats in the league...
At Jerryd’s age he is darn-good at that scoring bit, and the ability Jerryd has to get to the rim with drawing the foul is a much more rare skill than simply being able to drive and dunk. The free-throw totals with B.Roy and Jerryd in the game will be devastating to other teams.
The one thing that really bode’s well for Jerryd Bayless is his supporting cast. IF (and I cap’d it because Nate is still coach and KP is not done filling out our roster yet) IF Jerryd gets the playing time this PG situation should afford him, the surround players of B.Roy, Rudy, Martell, and Batum on the wing and Oden, Pryzbilla, and Aldridge in the post will do nothing but help Bayless play better. Almost our entire team is young, Jerryd knows he belongs in the NBA with his skills and athleticism, but working with a team like this will get him over the hump quicker. This is a TEAM, not just a bunch of pro’s.
Bottom line for me is that I feel this whole “Is Jerryd a PG debate” is totally overblown. The NBA and its fans are WAY TOO obsessive over proto-types and definitions of roles and blah blah blah… Sure, LaMarcus Aldridge is the prototypical PF at 6’11" 245lbs, with long arms and a versatile inside outside game, but players who are 6’8" 240lbs can still ball-out at the NBA level and even do better or be better than a prototype in the long-run. Besides, Brandon Roy is NOT your prototypical SG, nope, he is a hybrid Point-Forward/Shooting Guard which really takes a lot of the ball-handling duties pressures off of JB. I like Jerryd’s fit on this team… he fits because he is oozing with talent and drive to succeed.
by Portland Dynasty on Jul 21, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Prototypes are overblown
But even a combo PG needs to be able to pass and protect the ball. Even in his rookie year Tony Parker averaged more than a 2:1 A/T ratio and only once in his year has he not. Yes, Parker got to start for a solid team whereas Bayless had spot minutes off the bench, but since Portland was supposed to have one of the deepest benches in the league, this should have helped Bayless.
I’m fine with a combo guard if he hit shots and pass the ball well. (Yes, Parker wasn’t known for his outside shot early in his career, but in his second year he still shot 46%… we’ll see if Bayless can come close to that.)
The Princess of Blazersedge
I totally believe in Bayless' ability to protect the ball and pass...
It will take a little bit of time for Jerryd to be an “efficient” pro, but with this off-season of Jerryd Bayless a.) knowing what he needs to work on to get into Nate’s rotation, and b.) doing everything in his power to work at getting better everyday like any good gym-rat work-a-holic athlete like JB does… this off-season is bound to produce great results for the Blazers and Jerryd Bayless.
Heck, he is talented enough to get Team USA invites… he is talented enough to break into our rotation this season as a lead guard. Not combo guard, not point guard… a lead guard. He is a player who already knows how to score and who is working at improving his vision, passing, ball-handling and lowering turn-overs… again, and I can’t say it enough, I HAVE TOTAL CONFIDENCE THAT THE JERRYD BAYLESS EXPERIMENT WILL PAYOFF A GREAT DEAL.
by Portland Dynasty on Jul 21, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually there are benefits to drinking kool-aid too soon
For one, drinking kool-aid before it’s ready makes it so much sweeter. Hey! That even works in this metaphor!
Indeed Bayless is a great gamble. If he develops more PG skills, he could be Billups. If he develops more towards a SG, he is Monta Ellis. If he stays like this with more playing time, he is Westbrook. All players fans would like on their team.
You could also substitute Wade or Rose as his ceiling, but Wade has unique speed and entered the league 2 years older and more refined after college and he immediately got all playing time although his initial percentages weren’t great. All are not “pure” on their position. All tend towards having the ball in their hands yet scoring more than a traditional “point” guard instead of setting up others.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=ECHCx
I am absolutely convinced Bayless will be very good in the NBA. The one thing I’m not sure about: Can he work perfectly as an off-guard next to Roy. If he develops his outside shot back to college level, maybe. But not having the ball feels less natural for him than for a player like Rudy. Yet Roy with his experience is the more natural decision maker and the player you want to have the ball. If the Blazers end up having to send Bayless away because of that, fans will lament that development for a long time when he gets on the right team.
We all know what KP thinks about Bayless playing alongside Roy
He was very clear that the PG isn’t the “point” in crunch time, and is essentially a role player that isn’t relied on for playmaking.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions
More like Jarrett Jack
I would have agreed with the Westbrook comparison last summer. But I have to give it to OKC. Westbrook, while not a real point, has really developed nicely. I don’t think Bayless has shown anywhere near the same learning curve. Maybe minutes are the difference.
Perhaps a more apt comparison is JJ. Anyone else get the feeling that Bayless is tracking towards being the second coming of Jack? Undersized SG, great body for a PG, TO prone, poor vision, bull charging to the hoop, mediocre shot?
As someone that really disliked Jacks game, it hurts to say this....
But I would too at this point….
The Bedger formally known as ????????
Jack was the better player last year and probobly will be next year as well
Bayless still has a much higher upside.
Yep. It's very hard to imagine that Jack will make "the leap" at this point
He is who he is, for better or worse.
Bayless still has a ton of room for learning and growth. It’s just so hard to say whether he’ll reach it.
Jack will be worse next year next to Antoine Wright, Devean George, Reggie Evans. And he now costs 5 million per year. The Blazers wouldn’t have paid that.
and Jack wouldn't have sat quietly
and let Rudy take his PT…best for both sides
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Scoring PGs are fine
as long as they score efficiently and play defense. Bayless needs to score efficiently and play better defense. I would like him to be a better playmaker but that’s much less important as long as guys like Roy and Rudy are manning the SG position.
That means Bayless needs to be smarter about using his aggression on defense (he can’t keep committing dumb fouls) and keep working on that perimeter jumper.
Oden commits a ton of dumb fouls.
I’m not worried about either of them on the defensive end, that’s something that in all likelihood with improve with age.
His jumper looks better to me, but it was a small sample size. If he fixed that then this Summer was a tremendous success.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 21, 2009 4:35 AM PDT up reply actions
His form certainly looked better
which was encouraging. Summer league offered him a chance to continue ‘practicing’ to use that new form. I expect that he’ll keep working at until training camp.
I believe he shot around 47% in SL
with most of the team focusing on him where-ever he went on the floor.
So I would say his shooting was better and he definitely wasn’t given anything easy.
It's not even his dumb fouls,
he just gets lost a lot, misses assignments, doesn’t know his role, and blows up the team defensive approach.
He should be better with some more playing time and more practice time, though. I look forward to improvement there as much as anywhere, knowing his assignments and what to do when. Just being better at not blowing his assignments defensively would be enough for me to feel comfortable with him playing weakside while Roy’s creating for like 8-10 mpg.
by howlingfantods on Jul 21, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to disagree with the jump shot assessment
Jerryd showed that he can hit the 2-point J during SL. I don’t see that as a weakness of his game at all. Move him out to the 3-point line, and that is where you see the “overthinking” take hold. The more time Bayless has, the worse he shoots/plays.
The reason I don’t have a problem with Bayless is because the type of skills he brings are needed, and the things he needs to work on the most aren’t as important for a backup PG on this team.
I won’t argue Bayless is the “answer” to anything other than benching him for not displaying optimal “traditional” pg skills would be a disservice to him and the Blazers.
it's late, i'm tired
take my last sentence in stride:
should be: I won’t argue Bayless is the “answer”, but benching him….
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I posted this before . . .
but when the Blazers drafted BRex, I called my ex-roomie who’s a HUGE
UA Cats fan. He gave me the scouting report:
1. Great elevation on jumper. Can pull straight up from the dead run.
(This jives with his great athleticism.)
2. Very aggressive in getting to the basket. Can take the hit and still score.
(Check)
3. Good FT shooter.
4. Very quick, great leaper.
5. Defender ? " He will get beat sometimes, but he’s not going to get embarassed"
’He’s intelligent and athletic, so he will learn "
(He needs coaching, experience/minutes)
6. Intelligent, well spoken.
7. He can hit the open man.
All of his comments led me to believe that he could be a combo type guard,
who could play off BRoy or Rudy. In this case, he could bring the ball up / break the
press, guard the smaller guard / quicker PG’s, and play off the ball for the spot up or
slash to the bucket. His skill set is similiar / different than Blake’s, as both have the
ability /aptitude to allow our point SG’s (Roy & Rudy) to initiate or break down their man
and create. In Blake’s case he’s a very good spot-up shooter (especially from 3), but can
and will make the good pass to the open man. BRex on the other hand is more of a
slasher with the ability to get to the bucket by beating his man. He’s not the high Assist to
TO guy Blake has proven to be, but if he can be consistant on the pull up 16-18 foot jumper,
he will open his possibilities. Neither is a great defender, but BRex has the superior athleticism
and speed to develop in time.
I believe in time Bayless will be a very good player, but I think he will be a Vinnie “The Microwave”
Johnson type. A combo guard who is physical, tough and athletic, who can score (drive & jumper),
defend, and hit the open man. Playing alongside Roy/Rudy, this will be a good match, since
all are unselfish and willing to move the ball.
It's GO time !
Alright so after watching B-Rex for a year
what are your revised opinions on him? Do you see the same things that your friend at U of A saw in college?
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
Well . . .
Best case – Vinnie “The Microwave” Johnson type.
I don’t ever think he will be a pure point. Above someone mentioned
“Lead” guard. More in that line. Robert Pack style. Great athleticism,
superior attackasism (ie aggressive penetrator) and in your face defender.
This best case may take a few years. With experience & coaching he will
fit into the team defensive mode and understand when to get aggressive.
Worse case – Billy Ray Bates ??? Some explosions and out of the league.
A couple run-ins with the law and driving down I-5 in a yellow Hummer.
Just kidding !
oh, and COINCAST SUCKS !!!
It's GO time !
haha
I totally agree. Well not on the worst case…. But yea, he definitely could be productive in our line-up and think that’s a good way to look at the best case scenario, well BEST case he’s the Microwave ver. 3.0. But yea that’s definitely a good way of looking at it.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 22, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
kind of showing up late
to the Bayless thing, having not watched any of last year’s summer league, but what happened to his jump shot? i like a lot of what i see from Jerryd, but didn’t scouting reports mention an effective jumper in his bag? this season it was pretty bad. was it really better this summer? heard something about retooling…
"We didn’t pick Blair because of his history of fat-assery" -BlazerTag
I watched all the summer league games
and his 2-point jumper, especially off the dribble, looked good. His one three pointer that went in was a quick-release shot – which seems to be what he needs. When he is deliberate, that shot can go just about anywhere, but it is usually short.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Nate said it best
He is not making reads right now. Instead of understanding where guys are going to be and responding when the defense makes their decision of what options to take away, Bayless is making his decision before the play is in motion and then trying to force his will on the defense. I have a hard time seeing him vastly improve in that area of the game at this point in his career. I like what he brings in many ways but he might not be the right fit for this team.
Would anyone blame KP for moving him with some other assets to bring in a proven PG, even if he blew up with his new team?
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
I don't get the "mystical power of distribution" view of PGs
I have heard this POV over and over, again and again, and it still makes very little sense to me.
Court recognition is a skill, as such it can be taught. Any kind of skill is improved with repetition, doesn’t matter if you are talking about playing the piano, drawing a picture, or passing a basketball. Skills improve with repetition.
Certainly, different people may have different levels of natural talent, I am not going to become Mozart, Bayless is not going to become Nash. But most people who are reasonably bright, willing to work at it, and have the physical tools can become moderately proficient at any given skill.
Bayless has outstanding physical gifts, is quite bright, and is absolutely driven. Why do you and so many others think that he can’t become modestly proficient as a distributor. The kid is 20 years old. He played 600 minutes last season. He played out of position as a SG in college. He averaged 7 assists as a PG in HS to go with his 28 pts/game.
I understand why many people think Bayless will never be a “pure point guard.” What I don’t understand is why people think we need a pure PG when we have two excellent playmaking SGs, and our franchise player is an SG who tends to dominate the ball. To me, it seems obvious that we need a combo guard who can defend the point. We need a third scorer on the floor who can get his own shot. That is why we played Outlaw. If we are going to play Batum increasing minutes at SF, the need for a scoring PG is even more obvious. WE absolutely need to have a PG who is effective off the ball, and who can help spread the floor for Roy.
by upper left corner on Jul 21, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully some answers for you
1. Playmaking does come naturally to people. Sure, you can improve it, but only as much as you can improve something like dexterity and reaction time. When Bayless drives, he seems to pick what he is going to do at the beginning. Either pass or shoot. This means that 50% of the time he will choose right, but the other half of the time he is wrong. A “playmaking PG” can decide in the middle or end of the drive whether or not he needs to pass or shoot. This is the ONE major skill that Bayless needs to learn. He can even get by with a crappy jumper if he can learn this ability. That said… I don’t know how much guys really can improve on this. Sabonis just saw the floor amazingly well… no other center comes close and no amount of training would bring anyone close to this. Some talent is simply inherent, regardless of how much you want to stress “hard work.”
2. OMG we have Roy, we don’t need a PG who can distribute!! Here’s the problem. Roy doesn’t set up all of our plays. Yeah, he gets his 5 dimes a game, but he’s not the type of guy who can routinely set up Oden/LMA for dunks. We need a PG with the ability to drive, draw, and dish for that.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Ya
I find the argument that we don’t need a true point guard because we have Roy pretty silly. What happens when Roy gets hurt? Ideally, every player on the floor can make plays for others, and every player on the floor can finish plays for others. Point guard being the most detrimental to making the offense run smoothly. Roy comes in second. Plus, wouldn’t it be nice to have a guy that could get Roy easy buckets? A guy that could reduce the amount of playmaking responsibility that Roy takes on and thus reduce the beating he takes? I am with you zaig, Bayless has a long way to go. Right now, he is a poor mans Jarrett Jack, and KP traded jack away to move up two spots in the teens of the draft…
The Bedger formally known as ????????
They wanted Turkoglu to set up the pick and roll with the bigs
Effectiveness in the pick and roll seems to be the most popular attribute for defining a point guard.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Any kind of skill is improved with repetition, doesn’t matter if you are talking about playing the piano,
I can tell you from experience that there are musicians who are “taught” and musicians who are “born” with talent and you can definitely hear the difference (ref: American Idol auditions, etc)
I don’t know as much about PGs, but the coaches/scouts always say that PG skills are developed when the players are pretty young
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Ah, young Bayless is too OLD to become a Jedi!
In my mind, I see the ghost of Pete Maravich arguing with an ancient shriveled up Dwight Jaynes while he nibbles on a swamp root.
by conspirator5 on Jul 21, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I completely agree with your last statement.
To become an NBA point guard isn’t something that you all of a sudden pick-up later in life. A great NBA PG gets the chance to develop those skills at a young age and can make those reads and passes in their sleep.
Bayless honestly to me seems like the kid you are trying to coach to pass and set other teammates up, and instead just scores a ton himself and asks “why should I pass when I can score the easiest just by keeping the ball?”
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
instincts...
Bayless has little to no pg instincts. That’s why a guy(Jeter) that will likely not make an nba team looked like twice the pg Bayless was in SL. It will take a long time for the pg position to become instinctual for Rex, if it ever even happens…
The Bedger formally known as ????????
Of course Jeter looked better as a distributor, you are making my point
Jeter played four years as a starting PG in college he has been a successful PG in Europe’s best league for two seasons. He better be a better distributor because he isn’t going to be able to defend or score like Bayless.
Jeter is a good distributor. He has way more experience than Bayless.
by upper left corner on Jul 22, 2009 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
It isn't a mystical power
it is taught and it can be learned later in person’s career. I guess I was just hoping that Bayless would show a bit more his rookie season that would make me think he is making progress. I was watching the Boston home game the other day and Bayless drove through the defense and was in the air about to score with no one within 5 feet of him. He passed to Blake at the 3pt line. Blake made the shot, but it was still a ridiculous decision for a guy who has forced the ball into the teeth of the defense more often than not.
He made the same types of decisions in summer league. It would be great if he develops the ability to make better decisions and he probably can. All I am starting to think is, it might be a good time to let someone else wait him out if he brings back something we need in a trade.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
I kinda sorta agree with you
But I have to quibble a bit. There’s no substitute for natural, instinctive talent. The way Millsap rebounds is a gift: you would never be able to teach that to Travis Outlaw. Could he improve? Sure, but the difference would still be an order of magnitude. Same goes for the “mystical power of distribution.” Some guys have a knack for that, and there are many components to the skill (as with rebounding, for that matter).
Taking your musical analogy: I’m a professional musician. I hear things that 99% of people can’t hear. That ability has been developed somewhat over the years, but I pretty much had it from childhood. That’s partly what led me to further develop the talent; we like to work on things that we’re already good at and at which progress comes easily. If you have perfect pitch and can naturally pick out all the notes in a chord, you’re likely to want to pursue music. If you’re “tone deaf” and rhythmically challenged, you probably won’t want to bang your head against the wall trying to learn to play an instrument. (If you DO stick with music, the rest of us will likely suffer as a result!)
How does this apply to Bayless? If he had “the mystical power of distribution”—or even the germ of that talent—he’d probably have run with it long ago. Instead, he developed the knack he DID have: taking the ball to the hoop and overpowering people. Unfortunately, as Jerryd discovered last season, it ain’t so easy to overpower NBA players. You might beat your own defender, but many times there’s a second and even third defender waiting for you at the hoop, and those guys tend to be able to leap and block shots.
Can Bayless become a Jarrett Jack on steroids? I think he can; his natural skill set is similar, and he has much more hops. What’s far less likely is that Bayless will become the next Chauncey Billups—a natural two-guard who developed untapped point guard skills thru hard work and determination. I have to say that’s a serious long shot.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
The mental part of the game is exactly what improves with time
You can’t teach a 38" max vertical, but you can learn to play a system intuitively. If you couldn’t, we would have no musicians, no pilots, and no professional athletes.
This idea that somehow PG’s have to have all their skills fully developed at age 20 misses the fact that those are the skills that most points, included some of the most celebrated of all time, learn on the job.
Nash didn’t rack more than 5.5 apg until his sixth season. Nash turned 23 his rookie season.
The standard anti-Bayless rebuttal is that there is no time to wait for Bayless to develop – advanced point guard skills are needed now. I’d say that Bayless is a backup, more than capable of contributing scoring, points in the paint, and 3-4 apg – right now. Bayless can run the fast break either as a point or finisher, and has all the physical tools to play defense. The rest of the point guard package can come with time.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Here are some thoughts
First off, we have to ask ourselves what do we want from the PG position? Our offense is largely predicated on either driving or posting in the paint, kicking the ball out and around to the open shooter where he has the option to shoot or drive with the D scrambling to recover, or a high pick roll/pop.
We do not run a motion offense where we have cutters left and right or a fast paced offense where there are so many more chances to get assists.
What we need, besides the obvious D, scoring and shooting is for the PG to simply learn how to run the team, and make sure that people are where they are supposed to be.
Like him or not, Blake did helm the youngest team in the league to the 2nd best record in the west, by doing what? Averaging 15 apg? Scoring 20+ppg? Wowing the crowd with halfcourt alley-oops from his hip, or full court one hopper bounce passes right in the hands of a streaking player?
NO
What he did was he managed the game from the PG position, ran the team and served as an pressure outlet for Roy when he got stuck.
What does everybody complain about Blake,
“He’s like soft-porn=no penetration”
“He’s not athletic enough and gets pushed around”
“He’s not a good defender”
Bayless can fill many of those holes and all he needs to do is get to the level of running the team as Blake and he can be successful at the very least.
People will clamor to trade for a playmaker like Nash, but we had a playmaker of that caliber in Sergio, who came in and dished dime after dime and played no D, just like Nash and he is now gone.
“Pure” PG skills are way overrated as it is, but more importantly is how the player can run a team and make sure everything is in place which is a far easier task than growing a set of eyes in the back or your head, and learning how to throw a full court one hopper pass on a dime.
All Bayless has to do is pair his athleticism and his scoring instinct with the same level that Blake has in running a team and we will have something special.
Collegiate stats:
NCAA Arizona:
Jerryd Bayless: 19.7pts, 4.0 asts, 3to
NAIA Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Terry Porter: 19.7pts, 4.3 asts, 2.33to
by SpyderRyder on Jul 21, 2009 2:44 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
And make some jumpers
But his ability to take it to the hole is worth a few missed jumpers.
One other thing I would like to see from the PG — a guy who will push the ball on the break with the threat to take it all the way to the basket. That hasn’t been part of our game, but it opens up a lot of easy baskets, especially when you’ve got some really fast guys on the wings or trailing the play.
Bayless can be that guy. The first rule of defending the fast break is stop the ball. If you stop the guy with the ball, you’ve got a chance his pass goes awry, or the guy catching it doesn’t quite get it in the right place and you have a chance to recover. If you stop the guy bringing the ball down, you’ve got a chance to stop the break.
With Blake, you stop the guy with the ball by default.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
And even if he doesn’t score he at least draws free-throw attempts when he does that. Lots of it. He was # 40 in the league in free throw attempts per minute (when you eliminate a few flukes who played less than 100 minutes, otherwise #45), and the fifth best rookie. Brandon and Greg were #25 and #26 respectively (or #30 and #31). And he converts them at > 80%. Which only 20 players who get that many attempts did. He will always be able to get his points at the line.
Only PGs on the first list ahead of Jerryd btw: Devin Harris, Chris Paul, Ramon Sessions, Russell Westbrook with the last two very close nearby in attempts and percentages.
Thanks to all three of you guys: Spyder, jscot, and Northtroll, for making sense.
I have said it over and over:
The debate isn’t between those who think “Bayless will never be a PG,” and those who think JB will become a “pure point.”
The debate is between those who think we need a “pure point” and those who think we need an efficient scoring PG, who can defend the point.
by upper left corner on Jul 21, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Well said
Why did Bayless have his minutes cut, over and over again last year? It wasn’t because he wasn’t good at getting to the line, or into the lane. It was the dang hand check outside the 3 point line, bumping players without the ball, reaching in, and turn overs due to bad passes.
Will all of these problems go away with experience? I hope so. But it is a GAMBLE to accept a loss or near loss due to “player development.” Last year, Nate was not willing to make the gamble. A couple of dumb fouls and a turnover, and two minutes later, Blake was back in.
Bayless needs like 5 more Summer Leagues.
But it is a GAMBLE to accept a loss or near loss due to "player development."
This has been my point, it’s easy to see that Bayless has potential. But it’s more difficult to “live with” the growing pains (from any young player, but especially a “PG”) when the team is fighting for playoff seeding.
One extra loss due to “lack of experience” can make a huge difference in April, as we saw this last year
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Is Jerryd for 15 mpg
going to be worse than last year’s Sergio for 10 and Jerryd for 5?
I would say it is likely to be at least marginally better, and potentially much better.
Last year’s mess did no one any good.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I dunno
I thought Sergio and Rudy had a nice thing going in the second unit, especially early in the year. Our 2nd unit was one of our biggest advantages. Sergio made Rudy better, Bayless made Rudy worse with his inability to set him up. I think that counts for something…
The Bedger formally known as ????????
I love how Bayless can just magically become good at stuff
“Bayless can fill many of those holes and all he needs to do is get to the level of running the team as Blake and he can be successful at the very least.”
ALL he has to do is learn to run the team. Gee, that’s not a tough task or anything. And if you’re going to quote college stats, you should throw Adam Morrison in there too!
The Princess of Blazersedge
I was talking about his quote that talked about college stats.
Not summer league.
The Princess of Blazersedge
You could argue...
That if a bench dweller like Morrison can perform in summer league, why did Bayless struggle so much at pg? Especially in a guard dominated situation. Summer league is weak competition, and Bayless was out played by many players(in terms of point guardateering). What I find hilarious, is that if Bayless averaged 10apg and 2topg, none of the Baylessophiles would be saying Summer league doesn’t mean anything….
The Bedger formally known as ????????
Blazer SL shooting guards were a collective 3-23 in the first three games
“guard dominated league”
How the heck was Bayless supposed to rack up dimes with a couple of corpses playing next to him at SG, and a defensive specialist at SF?
I think the plan was to play Mills at the 2. When he broke his foot, they didn’t have anybody for Bayless to dish to besides Cunningham and he was hurt for the game where Bayless struggled the most.
by upper left corner on Jul 22, 2009 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I am kind of wavering between upper left corner and Zaig's opinions on playmaking...
I tend to agree that we don’t need a pure PG in our team because of our SG’s playmaking ability.
But in the other hand I see what Zaig has been saying: Roy just isn’t a good enough distributor especially when it comes to involving the big man. Blake isn’t good at that either. Rudy may have the best passing instinct among the 3 but he hasn’t been utilized as a facilitator often enough. I believe that’s an important factor as to why KP & McMillan wanted Turkoglu in our team.
I still don’t think Bayless needs to develop much pure PG skill to help our team, but I certainly hope he can be a better playmaker, a more willing passer than Blake.
a more willing passer than Blake.
Steve’s plenty willing to pass, he’s just not a threat to score off of penetration
and I have seen him run screen/roll with Przy and hit Joel moving towards the basket, just not all that often
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Jerryd's going to make the smart pass...
…to his good buddy G.O. I would be willing to make a gentleman’s wager that in the next season, Blake will get more minutes and have a higher assist total than Bayless, and Bayless will still outnumber blake in successful entry passes and/or pnr hand-offs to Greg. As much as I love Blake, I don’t remember him feeding the ball into the post much at all to anybody, not even L.A.
by conspirator5 on Jul 21, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
didn't mean to say Blake's selfish
What I tried to say is Blake sometimes is too conservative with his passes. He makes safe and efficient passes most of time, which is good. But he still didn’t look for big man – mainly Oden – enough. Also when we faced superior defensive team (like Rockets in the 1st round) his incompetence to make plays almost became unbearable.
To be fair, it has something to do with his physical limit which leads to his lack of penetration.
"...the hairs-apparent next to the Przybilla-Blake tortoise types."
Good one Dave.
"He's like a little mini-hulk type dude." - Channing Frye describing Steve Blake
by humble7 on Jul 21, 2009 2:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed! Nicely done!
Although it is “hares-apparent” like Tortoise and Hare.
Sorry about the correct, but you DID put it in quotes.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
My bad.
It WAS 3 in the morning though.
"He's like a little mini-hulk type dude." - Channing Frye describing Steve Blake
Ahh, sorry
Didn’t notice that.
Carry on.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Money quote
In fact the Blazers are better off having a couple of their supporting players to carry exactly that kind of promise and risk…the hares-apparent next to the Przybilla-Blake tortoise types.
A great line, and a great point.
We’ve got a couple hares-apparent in Europe, too.
I am much more optimistic about Jerryd than Dave is. If Summer League mattered for anything, Jerryd would have been ROY last year, and Nic would have played in Boise all year. Much of the objections to Jerryd have to do with seeing him as a pure PG. We don’t need a pure PG, we need a combo guard next to Brandon who can defend the 1, bring the ball up, and score if left undefended. I’ve not seen anything to make me think Jerryd can’t be that guy.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 21, 2009 3:12 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm pretty sure Portland was the outlier for Summer League
We’ll have to see this year, but I think most of the guys who do well in Summer League will do well as rookies this year. Portland just finds ways to be different than everyone else.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Really?
Most of the guys who do well in Summer League will do well as rookies? Any evidence for that idea, at all?
Success in Summer League is simply not indicative of success as a rookie in the NBA. It never has been. Never, ever.
I was extremely high on Jerryd when we drafted him, but not a lot of people were. Then, everyone went crazy over his Summer League last year — but it proved nothing.
Summer League is a completely different game, and a lot of it depends on who your teammates are. Not just for Portland, but for everyone.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Make me an Excel file of the top 10 players in Summer League each year
And their rookie or sophomore performances.
Summer league may very well have no correlation with success, but I’m not about to just believe it because a few examples can be provided. Or, if someone has already done this, link me to it. I’m more than willing to believe it, I’d just like to see proof first.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I had already moved on to a Bayless-less Blazer team
and was hoping Pritchard had moved on and decided to trade him if it would bring a missing piece … then I read this interesting risk-reward argument for keeping him and now I’m not entirely sure. Damn you Dave.
Going into summer league, I was of the firm belief that the whole experiment of Bayless as a PG was ill-conceived. 25 turnovers later, my belief became even firmer. Then yesterday I read about him throwing his SL teammates under the bus and my belief became firmer still.
I would be happy to see Bayless take his f-bombs elsewhere, but I can also see how Pritchard might be holding out hope that Bayless could be effective playing off the ball with Roy and possibly a to-be-determined small forward playing the point. That’s why I didn’t understand the SL PG experiment. It was doomed to fail and didn’t let Bayless or Pooh play their natural positions.
Bottom line to me is the Blazers could really use someone like Pooh to run the offense. Jeter is a joy both to watch and to root for … too bad he’s not stronger on defense. Bayless, on the other hand, is neither a joy to watch or to root for.
One last thing … Jerryd’s ability to penetrate is supposed to be his strength, but more often than not he seemingly either gets swatted or called for charging. In the final analysis, he’s out of control on the court with his dribble-drives and both on & off the court with his mouth. Not a winning combination.
"He's like a little mini-hulk type dude." - Channing Frye describing Steve Blake
by humble7 on Jul 21, 2009 4:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
seems a bit silly to take that much exception to his swearing
when Przybilla and Blake swear during games. Roy does to when we play LA and remember LMA and Ricky Davis?
Seems kind of silly to get worked up about Bayless swearing when pretty much all of our players do it.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 21, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think swearing is the issue
I think blaming your teammates after every loss is the issue. Especially saying things like “they can’t catch the ball.” These are top tier college level players… they know how to catch the ball.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Forever?
He said these things like a week ago. And there are some things that you should be held accountable for.
If you’re working on a project at work and you don’t meet your deadline. How well would it go over if you said, “Well I would have met the deadline if the 4 people I was working with didn’t all fail at their jobs.”
The Princess of Blazersedge
Well...
If your boss put you with a bunch of grad students and wash-outs who didn’t even work for the company, and you got upset because people were judging your abilities solely on THIS project, it would be much more excusable.
And correlations between the Real World and the NBA World almost always fall apart at some level. The NBA is a fantasy land, and is almost entirely removed from the mundane.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Umm they work here
You simply don’t blame other people on your OWN TEAM for failure. And definitely not in public. Do you ever see good players or coaches doing this? No way. They always use the words “we” “the team” or “I” You can take blame for yourself, but blaming others is pathetic.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I agree
My quibble would be with the degree of scorn we should heap on Bayless for it. I think it should be less scorn, since he’s absolutely right, and people ARE judging him based on it.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not a huge deal
It’s just pretty immature to ever blame others whether they deserve it or not, let alone multiple times.
The Princess of Blazersedge
It is totally immature
And I kind of expect it from a 20-year-old who is obviously arrogant and driven. We get off kind of lucky in that our other rookies last year were two foreign guys (who are just as arrogant, but don’t speak English as their primary language) and Greg, who is by all accounts one of the most gentle, sweet guys in the history of the NBA.
Bayless will calm down once he has a team of his own. Or the management here tells him to tone it down (and soon, please).
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
watch the summer league games and then ask if they can catch the ball
the Blazer SL squad had difficulties catching passes, or if they did catch them, making shots. I saw four or five “turnovers” that counted against Bayless that were simply misplayed passes by his teammates.
I don’t have an issue with people that critique any player, including Bayless. However, when it comes to evaluating players, I see a lot of red herring and straw man attacks, in addition to appeals to probability (it could, therefore it will), etc.
The fact that the poor play of Bayless’ teammates affected Bayless negatively doesn’t require any logical fallacies to support. You could see it when corner passes went through Bobby Jone’s hands, Padget dropped fast break passes that would have led to layins, others filling the lane failed to close on a pass, etc. Couple that with an extraordinarily bad shooting performance, and it would be hard for anyone to look good out there.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 21, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure
“plays well with scrubs” necessarily translates to “Plays well with NBA quality guys”. It’s the difference between that SL superstar who fills it up at SF but can’t find a team, and a guy like Batum who looks lost playing with scrubs.
Bayless may fail, but I’m gonna want to see him fail with NBA talent before I give up on him.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Umm, you do realize a good player won't suddenly suck when he plays with scrubs, this logic is silly.
Batum did in Summer League what he did in the regular season. He played defense. He had basically no offensive game in the regular season minus shooting some wide open 3s and a couple of dunks. This is the area we hope Batum improves on.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I think that Jerryd
would have had more assists and fewer turnovers had this been a regular season series of games. So- logically- it is possible- in my opinion- that it can be harder for certain guys to shine with scrubs than with NBA guys.
It’s like how some guys excel more when they’re the number one guy, and some wilt under that pressure but are great as a 2 or 3 guy. It’s a different mindset, and you can’t make absolute determinations based on only half the data.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Assuming 5 of his turnovers were not his fault,
he still had 20 that WERE his fault. Be a man and own up to them. That’s how you gain respect. Show everyone that you are aware of things you need to improve upon instead of trying to minimize your deficiencies while simultaneously calling out your teammates!
Another thing I noticed about him was during a timeout of the Houston game with the team down by 3 in the closing seconds. Prunty was diagramming the play and giving instructions. When Bayless saw what his role was (to inbound the ball to Pooh who ended up shooting and missing a game-tying 3), he reacted by frowning and lifting his hand up in the air as if to say WTF. I was almost surprised he didn’t pull a Pippen and refuse to go in the game.
This from Joe Freeman yesterday: “Bayless left summer league pleased with his performance. He says if he had been passing to the likes of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Fernandez and Nicolas Batum, rather than a collection of NBA hopefuls, his statistics would have been more impressive.”
And this: “He leaves town this year more mature.”
More mature? Really?
In my opinion he’s a head case.
"He's like a little mini-hulk type dude." - Channing Frye describing Steve Blake
I can't speak for the entire universe of fans by any means
But at least with me, the blame-my-teammates approach almost universally evokes the opposite reaction. Had Bayless pointed to himself, even just generically talking about how tough it is to get on the same page as a team in such a short time, I would likely have been thinking about how many assists he lost from playing with a not-well-constructed and poor-shooting team. But when he comes out and talks about how pleased he was with himself and how bad his teammates played, I’m just automatically more critical. There are so many ways he could have defended his play without casting blame on others.
Maybe that’s not completely fair, but it’s how I feel about it – good teammates take the blame and share the credit, not the other way around.
But like I said in another thread, he’s young. Maybe someone can work with him on this – I’d prefer him to be sincere in it, but politically correct is better than jerk in my book.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
Yeah
When you blame others it seems to show that you can’t recognize your own weaknesses. Even if 90% of the blame belongs to others, if you bring up the 10% of the blame that belongs to you, it shows people that you know your weaknesses and are willing to work on them.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I think that's just a lack of PR training
I would not be in the least bit surprised if Roy feels the exact same way Jerryd does at times. He’s just a pro about dealing with the Media.
I think Jerryd just needs to have Crash Davis mentor him a little.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVca9MwDX8
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Cursing is definitely an early learned behavior. Don’t think that is going to change. What I want to change is the lame touch-fouls and turnovers.
I do think he is strong, though. Only right now I’m still in the “oh crap, he’s got the ball again” mode, waiting for the inevitable 2 fouls and one turnover in 2 minutes in a close game, then Blake goes back in.
Well said
and presented more diplomatically than I’m capable of. We all want the Blazers to take the leap and become an elite team. And we all want KP to keep making great moves. But the trade of Jack and Rush for Bayless never made any sense to me. However, the guy would only be a junior in college next year so its too early to tell. But if you ultimately want a PG (and I think we do) Mr. Bayless is not your guy. If you want the standard combo guard coming off the bench with good energy, he might be. Hopefully he will continue to work hard and develop his PG skills, and shed the me-first aura as he matures. Go team.
Personally I think
that it would be better for us if Bayless doesn’t become a ‘Superstar’. We wouldn’t be able to afford him if he did. Like most if you I believe that all he needs to be able to do is
1) Manage the team
2) Strong Defense
3) Hitting the open shot both the 3 and the drive.
I think that J-Bay is already on his way to being a strong defender and we all know that he can drive the ball to the basket. With some experience he should be a better defender than Blake and perhaps with a little confidence his jumper might return/improve. Managing the team will take time and that won’t happen this season, perhaps not even in time for next season(2010-2011).
But will Nate give Bayless the opportunity to play or not? If he becomes the backup PG and plays 20 minutes a game then I believe that we will see improvement but if Nate treats him like he did Sergio and yank him everytime he makes a mistake then ‘humble7’ will be right. Bayless must be allowed to make his mistakes in order to learn from them. But he will have to earn playing time by playing strong defense and keeping the opposistion’s defense honest.
Nate can't stand to let those mistakes go unpunished
He doesn’t want to lose at the cost of “player development.”
That said, it was still jarring to see how far Bayless has yet to go, especially considering right now he’s penciled in as the top reserve at his position. (I expect that to change before the season starts.)
Really? You think Bayless will go into this year as the third string PG? I think that’s pretty unlikely.
Regardless of whether it’s a good idea to roll w/ Jeryyd at the back up point, it’s going to happen. KP loves the kid and is going to give him a chance to show his stuff.
The only way this happens is if the Blazers bring in a starting caliber PG without giving up Blake or Bayless. Possible, but unlikely. But there is a very, very slim chance, at best, that they bring in a back up PG to jump over Jeryyd in the rotation. If they wanted Jeryyd to be third string, why give away Sergio? He was a pretty capable back up PG last year.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Not necessarily that he'll end up third
but that he won’t automatically be granted second. They’re going to get a third PG somewhere and it’s going to be a vet. That guy might not push Jerryd outright (unless they make a Hinrich/Miller/Sessions move) but he’ll be experienced enough to step in right away should Jerryd not perform.
—Dave
Do you have a favorite in this horse race?
I’ve got my “money” on Tyronn Lue, for now. His 39% career 3pt shooting is right down Nate/KP’s alley
Bobby Jackson is in gate #2
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Dave. I think I love you.
This article makes me a very happy man. I’ll be the first to admit, I’ve doubted Jerryd Bayless a ton this offseason. However, after reading this article, I feel like a bad person.
The potential upside is astounding, and if he were to figure out what he was supposed to be doing, then he could be a valuable asset. And, as it is, I still think he’d be an upgrade at the backup PG over Sergio, solely because he can get to the rim, and score, or maybe kick it out to Rudy/Travis if the double comes over. And, we may have a certain Dante (Inferno) Cunningham cleaning up his bad shots.
I don’t mind the sound of that at all, because last year, our bench was solely based around the mid to long range games of Travis and Rudy, and there wasn’t a third option available from the bench. Add a guy who can get to the hoop, and the best bench that isn’t Jason Terry just got better!
Bayless threads are such a crap shoot these days
it seems there’s an equal chance of clicking on one and having it be a Bayless love-in or having all kinds of bile spewed over him.
A couple things, though, Dave. First, thanks for making the point about his intensity being a double-edged sword. It seems people always get caught up with the idea about how great it is that he’s obsessive about his game. Well, one of the most meticulously hard workers on the Lakers was Sasha Vujacic, and his constant obsession when his game was off seemed to be a distraction more than anything, especially as the Lakers were winning. It doesn’t help to have a player constantly angry at himself while the rest of the team is in good sprits because of a good record.
Second, Jerryd’s defense reminds me a little of something you wrote about Ruben Patterson’s defense a while back. It looks great to fans because he’s up on guys, pressuring them, exerting a lot of effort, but it kills the team scheme it’s not necessarily what the coaches want. In Jerryd’s case it’s led to tons of fouling. It was disheartening to see him come into SL this year and do the same thing off the bat.
Basically, it boils down to whether Jerryd can become an adequate shooter and defender. He doesn’t need to shoot 40% from three or anything, just enough to keep the defense honest. Sure, there’s probably a decent chance of it, but I feel like we’ve been saying the same thing for the past three years, so I’m a little wary of the whole Jerryd experiment for the moment.
Bayless will never be the scum that Patterson is though. He gets points for that.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Obviously Jerryd the person >>>> Ruben the person
but that’s like saying PETA likes someone more than Mike VIck. It’s not exactly the most difficult thing in the world.
Regarding Bayless - we will see.
Count me among the crowd that is not sold on him. I am not “convinced”, as some are, that he is a sure bet to be an above average NBA player. I have some doubt as to his being even a capable PG.
However I do not hold him in the same light as I did Telfair. I was convinced that Telfair was a mistake from the moment I started hearing rumors he could be drafted by the Blazers and never waivered from that opinion until the day Pritchard sent him packing for Brandon Roy. As far as Bayless goes, I’m willing to give the kid time. I would not have a problem if he was given more PT this season, even at the cost of a couple of extra victories in the win column.
hakkaa päälle !
bayless will be fine
quit worrying your pretty heads.
should have kept Sergio and traded Bayless
Sergio at least has value as a back-up point. Bayless’ value is as trade bait. He will never be a point guard.
Sergio had tons of value.
That’s why he was traded for a second round pick.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 21, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
You forgot we paid Sac to take him.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
maybe the money was for a buyout...
and then we’ll resign Sergio right before the season!
Blazers win!
That's brilliant!
We need an experienced PG, everyone says.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
what Sergio has experienced
we don’t need to see, again
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
MARIS?
is that you?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 21, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm all for taking a gamble on Bayless and having him be the back up PG...
but I really don’t think he fits into Nate’s plans. He turns the ball over way too much, doesn’t have much of a jump shot and commits too many fouls (especially offensive fouls). But give him the back up PG minutes and see what he can do with them. But come trade time if there is a good PG out on the market and they want Bayless in return, I’d make that trade in a heartbeat!!!
Sucker's play
Hoping that Bayless can be a point guard is a sucker’s play. It’s not going to happen. If Bayless were 6’5" instead of about 6" (no way is he 6’3"), we wouldn’t be debating whether he can play the 1. He would play the 2 – his natural position but for his height. Dave put it best: it’s far more natural by height than inclination.
I’m willing to bet that when Bayless played youth basketball and soccer he dominated the ball and scored a lot. He developed his tunnel vision at a very early age. Now we’re asking him to unlearn an ingrained habit. Not an easy task.
If the Blazers have a role for a Vinnie Johnson/Ben Gordon type of player, Bayless would be perfect (assuming he drastically improves his outside shooting, which is far more probable than learning to be point guard). Defensively, Bayless is a huge upgrade over Ben Gordon.
If the rumor is correct (big assumption) that the Blazers can get Hinrich for Bayless, I’m amazed that the Blazers haven’t pulled the trigger on that deal. I’d trade Bayless for Hinrich in a NY minute. The Blazers need another point guard. Hinrich fills the role. Bayless is not the answer. If the Bulls want to replace Gordon with a similar type of player (style and stature), Bayless is the answer.
If the Blazers want to keep Bayless and win the Bayless bet, they need to switch their perspective. He’s a backup 2, who can guard 1s and undersized 2s. When he’s on the floor, he needs to be teamed with Roy, Blake or Fernandez, who will be responsible for initiating the offense. Bayless will be the attacker/scorer.
by Turnout on Jul 21, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I’d trade Bayless for Hinrich in a NY minute
That’s not a direct swap, the rumor was Boozer going to Chicago and Tyrus Thomas going to Utah, with Bayless and HInrich switching places and all of KP’s cap-space being used to implement the deal
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'd be surprised if that's ever been offered
KP and Nate are very high on Steve, regardless of Blazer fan’s feelings re: Blake’s skillset
a Hinrich-Blake PG “tandem” would be awesome, Nate would be in heaven
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
And Blake would guard most backup PGs fine
He’d be one of the top backups in the NBA.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Rec'd. It puzzles me that KP hasn't traded Bayless for Hinrich
already if he’s had the chance. He must be thinking that Bayless could blow up and it’s a high-reward, low-risk situation, as Dave wrote. But it makes me wonder why KP thinks we need a star at PG when Hinrich would give us almost everything we need.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 21, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Rumors, rumors
Only KP knows which of them were true.
But I suspect KP thinks Kirk is only a marginal improvement on Blake, and he thinks Bayless is going to be much better.
I, for one, think Jerryd one year on is going to be at least a marginal improvement over our backup PG position last year. If he’s playing every game, he’ll figure out the fouling thing pretty quickly, and once he does he’ll be a far better defender than either he or Sergio were last year.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think as fans we undervalue Blake and over value Hinrich
I’m not sure blazer management sees all that much difference compared to loss of salary flexibility to make the swap worth it. I tend to agree.
Not sure about that
100 possessions. That’s a lot of possessions. I think Hinrich defense vs Blake defense would drop the points allow per 100 possessions by 3 or so. That means that Hinrich is helping us get a stop in 1.5 out of 100 possessions. Is that a huge increase? Nope! But those 3 points are the difference between being a 10-15 defense team and pushing the top 5.
The Princess of Blazersedge
And would probably drop even more points under
when you consider that Oden isn’t picking up fouls because the PG got burned. More Oden on the floor would probably mean fewer points. Hopefully.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hinrich gets burned.
He’s better against slow PG’s – he can’t guard fast ones [without major handchecking]. Then again, that’s a rare skill.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
I guess perimeter defense isn't really a priority, then
’cause they seem willing to experiment with a Rudy-Rex reserve backcourt
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Perimeter D off the bench
Is not as highly valued as being able to run and gun. The bench needs to be a way to take advantage of our depth. Unless the other team has a full “Second Five” like we do, their starters are going to be tired in the 4th.
And you gotta admit guarding Rudy and Bayless is enough to make the opposing bench cry.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
their starters are going to be tired in the 4th.
That would be more likely if the Blazer’s starting 5 ran them into the ground as well, but Blake and Roy are half-court assasins
Portland has been trying to “up” the tempo with the “white” unit for years, this is probably the reason why KP drafted Sergio in the first place. The problem is: you’ve got to be able to defend and rebound to run, and if your perimeter defense is a sieve and your backup power forward is a skinny ‘tweener like Travis, it’s going to be hard to get enough “stops” to get out on fast breaks with any kind of consistency. Thank goodness for Joel, but he and Greg can’t play “goalie” on every possession and stay out of foul trouble at the same time
Now we’re hearing the Blazers have resumed conversations with Andre Miller, and this just reinforces the “we don’t need no stinkin’ perimeter defense” message.
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless has tools to play D that neither Blake nor Serg have, namely bulk and aggressiveness
Whether he can learn NBA rules is another story
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 21, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
you play defense with your feet...
Bayless would improve significantly if he took that to heart…
The Bedger formally known as ????????
And if he could dial down
the defensive intensity from the 11 it’s at at all times.
Let the guy make his move, no need to get a touch foul or blocking foul the second he steps over half court.
Trust your teammates to some extent.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I have always thought
that the player JB most resembles is Brandon Roy. And I haven’t seen enough of both of them on the court to think that they would complement each other. This is why Hedo was so popular with the brass. A point forward relieves some of these issues.
I think KP is still holding out hope
Of a playmaking Forward. Hedo would have allowed a Bayless/ Roy backcourt to thrive, and I’m not sure KP has let go of that dream.
Which means he’s still hoping for a Prince trade. Or knows of a SF I haven’t that has set-up capabilities (and Odom is not going to happen, whatever we or KP wants he’s a warm-weather guy).
Can Battier facilitate offense?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Odom is not going to happen
sounds like LO’s going to get 4/40 from L*A, the rumor is Lamar and Dr. Buss kissed and made up
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That's what I meant
Odom would never come here in the first place. So it doesn’t matter if he fits or not. He ain’t coming.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
So our PG isn't allowed to have an offensive game other than passing to Roy and then running to the 3 pt line?
I fail to see that even if Bayless turns out to be a score-first PG, if he’s successful at it, how that hampers our team.
Is it because, like seemingly every other decision Blazer fans want to make, we are afraid Roy will get offended with too few touches?
This team’s legit window isn’t for at least two or three years, WHATS YOUR HURRY????
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 21, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Bayless is no Vinnie Johnson or Ben Gordon
Both of those guys played and play well without the ball. Bayless is more like a young Terry Porter. He is the type of player that will throw a chest pass when he should throw a bounce pass or stare right at an open man and think for a split second and make the pass instead of seeing them before they are open and having the pass wait there for them. Like Porter Bayless needs risk management skills because he will never be an instinctual passer but he can still become a solid floor general and if he can play well with Pooh he will have chemistry with Roy.
If Jerryd's jump shot comes around
And I think we can assume it will sooner or later, he is exactly a VJ or Gordon.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Bayless has much more ability to get to the FT line than Gordon
and its hard to imagine him becoming as good at making contested jump shots as Ben. Bayless is similar in that, offensively, he’s a scorer in a PG’s body, but Bayless is much more of a penetrator while Gordon’s much more of a shooter.
But Gordon was much more like Bayless
At 20. Bayless will cut down the forays into the lane as he gets older, too. Or get carried off the court in pieces. 50-50 chance at this point.
Confidence in his jumper, or more specifically confidence in his ability to get his jumper off while being guarded, and his game will change.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Gordon's career high in FT attempts/36 minutes came in his 3rd season
He attempted 5.9 FTs/36 min while attempting 17.8 FGs/36 min.
In his rookie year, Bayless attempted 5.7 FTs/36 min while attempting just 10.4 FGs/36 min.
The two players have very different styles.
I thought he was more of a driver
When he played at UConn, since that was when he was 20.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
We should've gone for Stevie Nash or Jason Kidd or Andre Miller or Ramon Sessions or Jamal Crawford or maybe we should pull the trigger for Ime Udoka!
Lets get better so we can get out of the first round.
Bayless is Robert Pack
Remember when he’d come in and charge to the hoop? Everyone would think, “why doesn’t that guy get more minutes?” Sound familiar? Ask the coaches and you’ll get some answers we’re hearing right now about our guy. And the Dwight Jaynes thing from the 20th…
He’s probably going to be stuck behind vetrans for a good portion of his career, and inserted as a 10 minutes a game, slam-bang 9pts, a couple of assts, and yanked when he turns it over guy. That instant offense spark plug guy. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
Another analogy maybe – Alstott. Straight up the middle and hope for the best. Alstott couldn’t play rugby as he couldn’t lateral the ball to an open guy. <cough, cough>
the Pac-Man was a better defender
Robert kept his but down and had superb latteral quickness, and of course he could use his hands more back in the day
Pack didn’t have much of a jumper, but he sure had madd hopz like Rex
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I had a home-made Pac-man T-shirt, back in the day
I’m not sure if it’s still buried in a closet, or not
(Oh, and I had the “Pack to the Future” poster, too)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
nah, Robert was no passing wiz like Bassy
but Pack was a “passing fancy” for Blazer fans, back in the ’80s
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
"You could almost see the wheels turning inside his head."
I don’t know how literal Dave meant this comment, or how clearly this was evident from the television broadcasts, but watching him play from the stands in Vegas, this quote encapsulates Bayless’ week for me.
There were short periods of time in which he seemed to have the ‘green light’ to score at will – and he did. But the rest of the time, he was very intent on trying to set up his teammates. To the point that you could literally see in his eyes that he was asking himself, “What can/should I do next?” Good for him to be asking. However, it caused him problems on a few occasions, when trying to figure out what was ‘next’ created problems when he lost track of what was happening ‘now’. The turnovers were, IMO, largely caused by this – he’d carry the ball, pick up his dribble too soon, get caught in a trap, etc.
One thing is very clear – he has a desire to learn how to move beyond simply being a scoring guard to a player that makes his teammates better. How successful he is in this endeavor is something we will have to wait to see. For the time being, he’s not expensive, he’s not a distraction and his work ethic is beyond reproach.
by Storyteller on Jul 21, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I will not underestimate his desire to be a PG. I don’t know if the skills can be learned (or if it’s some mystical ability that Nate and other guys swear it is), but if anyone will do it, it’s Jerryd. Billups has shown that- at the least- the skills can be faked when necessary.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
good analysis
the only “expense” I can foresee by allowing Rudy-Rex to play together as a bench “tandem” is that their NBA “inexperience” could cost the Blazers a few Ws…these were “acceptable losses” in 2005-2008, but they should be more of a “concern” in 2009 and going forward
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'll take a few more losses in 2009-10 if they result in more wins later.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 21, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, this is still a developmental year, despite the fanbase's wish to dynamite the window open.
We still don’t know what we have with Oden, Bayless, Martell, Batum and to a lesser extent, Rudy.
This is going to be a fun year, but it’s still a growth year. It should be the last one, but it’s not the year for the championship run and I would be against trying to force it to be.
it's not just "the fans" who think "the window" is now open
It’s also the fab four…Paul, Nate, Brandon and…Mike Rice!
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
you'll feel differently
next April…it’s easy to have patience before the fact…but just one more win last season (the Clippers game?) and instead of facing Houston in round 1 Portland would’ve faced NOLA…and had Denver’s easier “path” to the WCF
Losses are going to get more “painful” as the pressure to contend rachets up, and I really don’t want to read about Blake/Bayless getting “blamed” for their lack of “whatever” when the front office should be taking the “heat” for not upgrading the starting PG position, back when they had the opportunity
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If you want to be good in the NBA you have to play minutes
I can’t think of anybody that has become a good player by sitting on the bench. Bayless played very few minutes last year, which is very typical for a rookie and especially for a very young rookie.
How anyone can evaluate his game from limited, scattered minutes is beyond me.
This whole discussion reminds me of a young Clyde Drexler (who had a much more experienced college career before going pro). Everybody thought he had no jumper, couldn’t play team ball, and was a poor defender.
I think he turned out OK after a few seasons.
His shot was always flat, though
And that year in the Finals, his defense just wasn’t up to shutting down that other team’s shooting guard.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I think the better argument that Jscot was alluding to...
Was that the other SG was Michael Jordan.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Someone tried to argue that with me the other day...
I mentioned that we would have taken at least one of Chicago’s titles from them if we had Sabonis. He said Sabonis was just a cripple who was never much of a player.
Ooooooookay then.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Did you find out what kind of kronic he was smoking?
if you did, you could find some and sell it to D.Miles and convince him he can still play in the NBA
Blazers win!
Haha actually I do know.
It was some crap he got in Vegas
He was actually complaining about how bad it was for how much eh had to pay.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I think he turned out OK after a few seasons.
after Clyde and Ramsay locked horns more than a few times, along the way
but really…comparing Bayless to Drexler? Apple, meet orange
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
you forgot the real problem with Bayless
His size. Clyde didn’t have an issue with his game that couldn’t be improved.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 21, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Jerryd does not have Epic Fail in his future.
The Blazers are giving Jerryd every chance to succeed. They’re bringing him along slowly, they’re challenging but not overwhelming him, they’ve made clear what they expect from him, and they’ve provided all the resources he needs to develop his skills. He has tremendous physical gifts and incredible drive and determination. We all wonder what his ceiling is and whether he will reach it, but with all the above advantages going for him, Jerryd’s floor is that of a serviceable backup and instant offense spark plug guy, as Knobby wrote. If we’re lucky, he could become an All-Star someday.
Jury is still out
I’m not going to judge what potential Bayless has as a PG based on Summer League. I’m just not going to do it. I didn’t do it last season when he was league MVP and I’m not doing it this season when he was asked to try and be more of a playmaker. Too many variables in the whole summer league experience. I agree that what Bayless can or can’t do or become will be most visible during the regular season.
What I question is the whole wisdom in trying to make Bayless into something he is not. Isn’t that what we did with Sergio the past 3 years? How well did that work?
For some reason a lot of people seem to think The Blazers need some iconic, prototypical playmaking PG. Usually of the Chris Paul caliber. To be honest, I don’t think that is a need with this team. PG is just a label you attach to a a certain player, what a PG is to a team is not a universally mandated imposed standard.
A few nights ago I watched vintage Blazers on cable, the 1992 Phoenix playoff game with Porter, Drexler and crew. What I had forgotten was how much of our offense ran through Drexler. Porter was a fantastic PG, offensively and defensively and to pair with Drexler primarily. Porter was and is rightfully remembered as one of the best PG’s Portland has ever had, but watching that game reminded me that Porters strength as a PG was not really team playmaking ability. Label whomever as whatever, but Porter with Drexler often played like a 2 guard. Much of the offense was coming down, getting the ball to Drexler, who then had many options. Drexler could create for himself, wait until the defense collapsed then dish to Buck or Duck in the paint, or out to Porter or Ainge on the perimeter. It was simple and it worked, and it was most often not initiated by a clever, or lightening quick playmaking PG. We didn’t really need that, on that team.
So why this burning desire for a replacement for Blake? Why this playmaking PG or Bust mentality? Sure we need a minumum level of skill. We need someone who can make an entry pass to Brandon, Oden or LMA. But my point being, even if Bayless never becomes what he currently is not, which is a great team playmaking PG, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a great asset.
My fear is that we become obssesed with once again pounding a round peg into an unneeded square hole. When this fails, we end up ultimately in another “Sergio” scenario, with a young player frustrated and feeling like he was never really given a chance. Then with value at an all time low, we end up parting ways and getting relatively nothing.
I’m not criticizing McMillan. He’s done a fantastic job developing the young talent on this team. However, what he wants and expects from the PG position sometimes seems vague and mercurial in nature. This whole summer league reflected this, I heard “We want to see Bayless’s playmaking / Team Leadership skills” alongside of comments by McMillan that he was generally against making someone into something they are not.
Bayless is young enough, hungry enough, and I think physically and mentally gifted enough that I’m not saying the experiment is finished. Young players can add skills as they progress. I guess my bigger concern goes beyond what Bayless might be today, or might even become tomorrow, my bigger concern is what does McMillan want? What does McMillan want from the PG position, what does he expect, and does that change with the lineup on the floor. We need to figure out, what we have, what we need and most importantly what we want, I’m not sure sometimes that The Blazers are clear on that issue. We’ve spent the past few seasons praising Blake, while passive agressively trying to groom young talent to replace him. For a team outwardly professing happiness with Blake we’ve drafted a LOT of PG’s. Sergio, Green, Jack, Bayless, Mills…That makes me feel The Blazers at some level don’t really know what they want, this needs to be established first before decisions about trades or development of current assets even makes much sense.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
I have an untested hypothesis that NBA players who become coaches and GMs
prefer players who remind them of themselves when they were players. It might explain a lot about the PG situation on our team.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This has been mentioned before
And the conclusion is NO ONE can play like Nate because of the rule change.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Nate sure ruins a lot of careers
NATE R HORRIBEL /?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 21, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
let's hope not
in KP’s case…we don’t need a “slow white guy who can’t shoot” (from KP’s own “personal” scouting report!)
but if this
[]they] prefer players who remind them of themselves when they were playerswere true, you’d think KP would be overpaying to bring in Kirk Hinrich, right?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I disagree with your assessment of Sergio...
Asking a player to be able to shoot a reasonable percentage and to play defense is not pounding a round peg into a square hole, it is simply asking them to live up to a couple of the core fundamentals of the game. Asking Sergio to play a slow-tempo, half-court game may have been putting him out of his element, but I don’t think that’s what kept Sergio off the court. Nate was a defensive-minded, hard-nosed scrapper in his playing days, and I think that’s what he looks for in his players. Nate’s offense is plodding and methodical, as opposed to Sergio’s freewheeling open-court game. Honestly, if Sergio would have bulked up just a bit and put out some effort on the defensive end, he would have seen a lot more court time.
A coach isn’t going to alter his philosophy and game plan to suit a 3rd year bench player. I don’t think it was entirely Sergio’s fault he didn’t get more playing time, but his game wasn’t well-rounded enough to fit into a different system than he was accustomed to playing.
Lots of Euros struggle here, it's a different game
I would peg the clash more on a Euro/US style of play issue than a Nate/Sergio hating each other issue.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 21, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
but why was Sergio drafted
when KP knew Nate was going to be his coach
(Was this the first indicator of the “we’ll make it fit” philosophy?)
I suspect the Blazers would like to run the ball with the 2nd unit, if they can get adequate defense and rebounding off the bench. The Bayless and Rudy backcourt will still be able to accomplish this…but after 3 years of Nate, Sergio was tired of “not progressing”
this should be considered a “warning shot across the bow” to all of Rudy’s fans, BTW
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Because his deficiencies weren't as glaring
and defense and shooting can be learned. I just don’t think Sergio was a very hard worker or willing to adapt. He just went straight to frustrated.
I agree about Rudy, I think this will be his last season with Portland. I won’t be surprised if he gets traded before the deadline.
I give Rudy 18-24 months in red/black
build up his trade value then flip him, the only exception is if Brandon gets seriously injured, then all bets are off
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
So why this burning desire for a replacement for Blake?
Because when Portland needed a bucket at the end of the game Terry put hsi head down and drove into the paint and “generally” got the the FT line, or completed the 3 point play
Blake is not that kind of PG, but Bayless could be…if Rex can develop his 3pt shot into a dagger-like weapon, like TP did
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
comments by McMillan that he was generally against making someone into something they are not.
but Nate also said (before summer league) that he was going to experiment with Rudy as a “PG” in preseason
So, it’s all relative.
Rudy has more (international) experience and in order to get him more PT McMillian is willing to “stretch out” the Spaniard’s responsibility
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
to be read as Charlie Mackenzie read "Harriet"...
Bayless. Bay-less. Ballyhooed, bereft bastion of basketball. Powerful, prominent, prospect player. Un-lead… ing. Un-group… ing. Un-point… ed? "Is he the one?" they mulled on the internets like a fireman going to a window that has no fire… except the passion for this team. We are news-starved. Off-season’s really hard. This poem…
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 21, 2009 11:46 AM PDT reply actions
That sounds like Mike Myers
In So I Married an Ax Murder? P.S. I like your moniker.
The Blazers are in more of a search for a playmaker, not just a pure scorer. Bayless might score alot but that is not the what they need from him.
Any time Detroit scores more than 100 points and holds the other team below 100 points they almost always win. -Doug Collins
by TappedPotential on Jul 21, 2009 12:20 PM PDT reply actions
Jerryd plays a lot of one on five
Not particularly conducive to winning basketball, in my opinion.
And?
That’s one quarter of the time.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 21, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention
That Roy playing 1 on 5 is a legitimate threat. Bayless hasn’t quite earned that level of respect / fear from his opponents…yet.
Or respect from the refs
Roy gets a lot of questionable calls when he goes into the pack. Bayless gets destroyed as often as not, and can’t buy a call.
Not that I blame the refs, the BayFace when he’s been wronged is classic.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy gets a lot of assists
He sees the floor well. That is only one of many obvious differences between the two players.
Roy gets a lot of assists...
mostly because the ball is in his hands a lot. He has an extremely high usage rate. His good court vision certainly helps and he’s such a threat that it leaves shooters open, but he’s not exactly a pure point guard. If he was we wouldn’t even be having this conversation and Roy would just be running the offense full time.
Bayless is also five years younger. Comparatively Roy would have been half way through school right now, and if I remember correctly people weren’t exactly predicting he would be a superstar back then. Bayless has a long way to go, but so did Roy, Outlaw, Rudy, Webster, Aldridge, etc, at the same age.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 21, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Aldridge is the only guy on that list
Who was even remotely in Bayless’s league Potential-wise at that age. The other guys were major projects, with the exception of Rudy who wasn’t even a glimmer in an NBA scout’s eye at that point.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like the Blazers have gone from one extreme to the other...
before the current regime took over, the Blazers signed a bunch of what turned out to be high risk players-at least in terms of character issues. Now, they seem to be terrified they’ll make a mistake. Bayless is a great example of the latter. The Blazers must be afraid they’ll trade him and then live to regret it.
Everyone says that it’s rare for a player to successfully convert from a shooting guard to a point guard. Can anyone give some examples of players who have actually done this and made it big?
exactly
KP had been so perfect for 3 years that he froze. Now he is afraid to make a move for fear that it might be wrong.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 21, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Why didn't we just keep Jarret Jack?
What does Bayless bring that Jack didn’t?
Only 4 months and 82 games away from the playoffs!
He IS better
But he sure wasn’t when he was 20.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
the real question is
would you want Jarrett, or Rudy?
because you can’t have both
Jack is not a PG, he’s a combo…and his minutes were going to take a dive last fall…so KP did everybody a favor and moved JJ along
(it’s the same kind of thing he should be doing with Outlaw, this offseason, BTW)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Trust me
KP would move Outlaw if the deal was there.
Only 4 months and 82 games away from the playoffs!
Agreed agreed agreed
If he could find some scoring off the bench, Travis would be gone already.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
There was a rumor that Memphis was unhappy that Utah matched MIllsap's offer
because there was a deal in place to Outlaw to go to the Griz for a draft choice if Millsap had wound up in Portland
Jonathan Givony tweeted this, a few days back.
I think Travis has one foot out the door, it’s kind of hard for KP to “hide” this when all the Blazers have been pursuing so far this offseaon are forwards that would’ve (hypothetically) eaten up all of Trout’s PT
OTOH, the Blazers aren’t going to just give him away, and there are teams that have shown interest in #25
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
1 of these days ill get it rite
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 21, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope Bayless is the 3rd PG and we snag a vet.
Any time Detroit scores more than 100 points and holds the other team below 100 points they almost always win. -Doug Collins
by TappedPotential on Jul 21, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions
Jeter will be the third string point guard
He’s the change of pace guy; looks like to me he really can dish it effectively, and he even makes jump shots! That’s also better than last year’s backups.
if Pooh actually makes the roster
that will mean that many veteran PGs refused to sign with Portland. Not impossible, but pretty low on the probablility scale
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, too bad for Jet but I agree
His skillset is replicated by more than a couple available guys out there. Guys with NBA experience.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
"He doesn't have a jump shot"
Disagree: He had a great shot at Arizona. His loss of confidence last year is what happened to his jump shot. When the confidence returns, so will the shot. I’d be pleased if he just played great defense on opposing point guards and on offense brought the ball up court and handed it off — that would be a big improvement over what we had last year. Bayless scoring is a bonus!
Different hypothesis on Rex's jump shot
Jarryd hit the weight room a lot last season – I’d argue that his loss of jump shot had more to do with the mechanics changes wrought by adding a bunch of muscle-mass to his upper body than by a loss of confidence.
You can't "TEACH" someone to be a playmaker
All the talk about Bayless becoming a true PG is rubbish. I don’t mean to dash anyone’s hopes, I think Bayless is a fine player with a ton of potential, but I see him being a Ben Gordon at best. The reason is you simply can’t teach a player how to be a playmaker, its a mentality, and you either have it or you don’t. Sure you can help a guy read defenses and encourage him to pass more, but you can’t instill a playmaker mentality in someone.
Not that you have to be a playmaker to be a PG or vice a versa, there are plenty of 2 and 3 playmakers in the league (Turkoglu, Lebron, etc.) and there are point guards that are more scorers than distributors. But the PG usually has the ball in his hands, which lends itself to being a playmaker based purely on more opportunities to do so.
While Bayless is trying and working hard, there is NO WAY you can teach him to be a pure, playmaking PG. It’s the square peg in the round hole cliche, let’s stop trying to make him into something he isn’t and instead utilize his skills as effectively as possible. All this time and effort spent on trying to make him a PG is really wasted time, we should either use him as a Ben Gordon, Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas type of player as a scorer off the bench, or move him to a team that will.
by rip_city_swagger on Jul 21, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions
You mean no point guards in the NBA learned how to be point guards??!! Wow.
How does that happen? You think they would have had some coaching someplace along the line.
Rucker park
and the school of hard knocks
their AAU coaches only mess ’em up ;^)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
They do
When they are 7 and the coach teaches them to pass to players who aren’t as good as they are.
Honestly. 99% of the players in the NBA were far better than anyone they played against from the ages of 6-12. Some coaches at that age let the good players score at will. Other coaches want the good players to get everyone involved in the game because they’re kids.
I gurantee that the kids who “had” to pass at an early age became better players down the road.
The Princess of Blazersedge
As a 7th grade coach of a competitive team
That’s something that AAU has really helped with. We play AAU teams all of the time, and the one thing that is really good for, is getting tall kids to learn how to play as a PG. On our team if you are over 5’ 10" in 7th grade, you’re playing the post position despite the fact probably 2/3 will top out at 6’ 6"-7" at most. Whereas with AAU you can put those kids in the PG role because you have kids that are already 6’ 3"-6’4" playing the post role.
I don’t coach AAU, but that’s the way those tall PG’s were able to develop the PG role. (our star PG is like 5’, and despite the fact he is a phenomenal basketball player, its our guy whose 6’ 3" [also really really good, but not AS good] that is being offered the AAU positions, it kind of sucks)….
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
Sorry, but I can't just get behind the hammering of this untested truism.
It’s a reality that certain people are born with natural phyisical and/or cognitive advantages.
It’s also a reality that some people are groomed from an early age to excel at certain kinds of activities based on the type of people they are surrounded with as they grow.
These two truths often produce “prodigies” when their aptitudes and their environments line up perfectly and that individual gets an opportunity to excel far beyond the statistical norm.
This is what happens when we describe somebody as being “born to” a particular activity. The mistake comes when we assign some kind of mystical, lottery-ticket-of-god kind of importance to the people who benefit from this combination. Just like Steve Nash was not ordained from the heavens to be a brilliant PG, so too Jerryd is not doomed to being an undersized PG. There is no hand of fate holding him back.
Don’t get me wrong. It may prove that Jerryd’s cognitive “ceiling” prevents him from operating at the level that our team and our coaching strategy demands. But the truth is we have no way to tell at this point. KP has made it clear that he’s willing to invest the time to find out. Its the responsibility of the coaching staff to give Jerryd the teaching and the reps necessary to let him prove himself one way or another.
(Oh, and still being a bit of a basketball n00b, I heard something about Nash’s first few seasons not being anything to write home about… so where is the hand of fate there?)
by conspirator5 on Jul 21, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, undersized SG. He's a right sized PG for the NBA.
Which really, is probably a huge part of Jerryd’s motivation to develop his PG skills. I think he can read the tea leaves as good as anybody on that front.
by conspirator5 on Jul 21, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nash's first few seasons weren't that good...
But when he was playing, he still played like a crappy version of Nash. Excellent court vision. (Almost 10 A/48 his rookie year.) 42% from behind the arc (only 55 attempts though.) And all that good stuff. Nash was a Pure PG then, just pretty raw. He didn’t have to learn anything new, just improve on what he had.
Bayless has to learn how to change his shot and run an offense.
The Princess of Blazersedge
I'm not sure which side of the argument you're on here
I completely agree with what you’re saying about being “born” to play a position. No one is born with the inherent ability to play basketball. The physical abilities, maybe, but so much of it is just coordination and balance, which can be “learned” at a very young age also.
The thing is, by the time guys hit the national scene, most of this instinctual learning is already done, so it’s really just arguing semantics when someone says they were “born” to play a position. If Nash and Bayless had been switched at birth and had the exact same childhood the other had, I’d wager Bayless’s game would look a lot more like Nash’s and Nash’s would look a lot more like Bayless’s, but by the time anyone in the NBA saw Bayless play, the chances of him becoming a transformative assist man a la Nash, Kidd, or Stockton were basically nil.
The way I see it, if Tiger Woods hadn’t picked up a golf club until he was 13 years old, would he be the same golfer at age 35 that he was at age 25 in reality? Not a chance. So much of our physical and muscle development is done at a young age so once your older it becomes much harder to change your instincts and habits. Why would basketball be any different?
I'm on the "patience, grasshopper" side of the argument.
Which also means that I agree with the idea that we need a 3rd PG on the roster, and for more than just the “we need 3 PGs no matter what” argument that Nate was kind enough to offer. We are rolling the dice on him. We do need to have a fallback position. Furthermore, I think that a vet PG would be great for Bayless’s development even if it ends up costing him PT in the long run.
It’s the rushing to judgement that rankles me, nothing more.
by conspirator5 on Jul 21, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying he can't be an excellent PG for us
or in the league in general, just that by the time a guy gets to the NBA, his instincts are pretty well defined that he’s not going to be able to drastically change his game. No matter how hard he works, Bayless will never be a Nash/Sergio-like player, just like it was pointless hoping that Sergio would somehow change into Gilbert Arenas or Ben Gordon/Nate Robinson would magically become PGs.
Sadly I agree with you
How different did Jeter and Bayless look when they were taking turns at the 1? I mean it was like day and night playing styles. Jeter is Clearly a worse player, but Jeter was actually playing like a PG, one moment that stands out for me was in the Rockets game when the Rockets moved off of the pick to double Jeter with the ball, and he smoothly just passed right between the two defenders to Cunningham, who missed a Wide-open shot. Jerryd would never have even thought of that as an option, and considering the looks that Jeter was getting his teammates that were completely missed, I honestly thought he had a better case for complaining about his assist totals than Jerryd did.
And that’s another thing, you can have legitimate complaints about players not making easy baskets, but not catching your passes is a totally other thing. Its part of your job to get your teammates passes that they can catch and convert, if you’re whipping them the ball too fast, you’re making the wrong pass. I mean its not like Jerryd is Sergio threading the needle across the lane, his passes are of the much more simple variety and if his teammates can’t catch the ball, he shouldn’t be trying to force it.
But the main issue was definitely that Jerryd didn’t look and wasn’t playing like a PG. When you are specifically watching an NBA-PG you are often surprised at what they saw, and the really really good ones like CP3 and Nash, you are just amazed at what they are seeing that you’re not. Sergio was a lot like this to a much smaller (and a ‘wish he could hit a freaking jumper’) way…
But watching Jerryd it was the complete opposite, I mean it could definitely have been a part of not knowing where the holes were going to be with the offense, and getting flustered with double-teams, but he’s got a really long way to go before he becomes as good as even Pooh as far as seeing the court, because most of these guys learned how to be point guards at a young age. And since I’m the type of guy who is a huge fan of traditional PG’s that doesn’t make me very comfortable at all all when he is proclaimed the ‘point guard of the future’ (PGOTF)…
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
if you’re whipping them the ball too fast, you’re making the wrong pass
tell that to Magic Johnson, Mychal Thomson said Earvin used to hit him in the head with bullet passes until he learned to never, ever take his eyes off of Magic!
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
hahaha
if Bayless could pass like Magic, you’re damn right everyone should be paying attention to him!
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
Jeter has had a lot more pro experience
Albeit in Europe an the D-League, but he has 3 years more experience at playing at a higher-level. I’m not saying that Bayless will make a great pick and roll player, but really the only time you have develop those skills is in the pros- as they rarely run the pick in roll in college.
Chauncey Billups isn't a PG??
Damn, he can sure fake it pretty well.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we should trade Bayless for Mario
Mario has some serious ups and seems to be as good as whomever is coaching him at the time. He is quick, can turn on a dime and seems near impervious to injury except maybe from fireballs or a direct on result. But man when he elevates, he eliminates anyone underneath him.
He also get’s the 1-up a lot and I think that is similar to an and1. But I’ll have to look into that…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 21, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions
He plays for the italian league
With his brother. They used to runa plumbing business back in the day….
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 21, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Now THAT'S the wingspan our PG NEEDS!!
Too bad he’s 4’8".
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 21, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
but look at his HANDS! He could palm two balls at the same time…
Whoops, is that indecent content?
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jul 21, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree that Jerryd is a harmless gamble
When we drafted him, he was supposed to replace Jack, compete with Sergio, and maybe even overtake Blake in his rookie season.
But more to the point, as things stand right now, he IS the backup point guard. To my mind, putting the backup PG duties in the hands of this slow-thinking caricature of a PG in the summer league constitutes an enormous gamble and risk. That will change if/when a new veteran PG is acquired but for now, he has to qualify as a substantial risk.
I definitely agree that we fandom should not have to wait 7yrs like Outlaw for development. I’m sick to death of calls for patience. I don’t even want to wait if he ends up being as good as Billups… that’s a long journey and I don’t have the nerves for it. I’ve heard calls of patience for Webster and Outlaw… I’ve heard it for Jack and Sergio (both gone). Meanwhile, I’ve had to watch Udoka and batum do well right out of the gate. I’ve had to watch guys like Westbrook blow up right away.
I want to see something out of Bayless right away. Not polished game; not allstardom… just something that makes me think he can contribute consistently (and charging the rim every single possession doesn’t count). I am thoroughly unwilling to wait until he has played himself out of all trade value.
I really, really want to see earlier and quicker decisions from KP et al about all of these players.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
The difference I think
is our expectations are say high for Webster, Outlaw, and Bayless.
While our expectations were so low for Udoka and Batum. Batum has holes like swiss cheese in his game, and people aren’t calling for his head because we expected that.
The issues that Outlaw, Webster, and Bayless have are much much smaller, but we also have seen greatness from them, so we expect so much. “The Quarter”™ for Webster. Summer League Slam™ for Bayless, and the “entire Regular Season, but what the heck happened in the playoffs aside from Ron Artest guarding him and why can’t he grab more than 4 rebounds a game?”™ for Outlaw.
Lower your expectations to Batum’s level for the other players, and you’ll be a lot happier I guess, if you want a bunch of Batum’s and Udoka’s on your team.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
You may have a point
But then again, we’re at Outlaw in Season 7 and Webster in, what, Season 5? For Bayless, we’re in Season 2.
I just absolutely do not want to wait so long on Bayless… I want to see more promising results earlier.
But as for Udoka… I see Udoka starting for this team all last year and being the difference-maker in the playoffs. He is exactly what the team needed. If we could go back in time to the summer of (I think) 2007 when it was sign Udoka or sign Outlaw…. would you really go back and take Outlaw?
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
I don't understand this Ime Udoka attraction
Gavin was raving about how Ime was the Blazer’s “missing piece” this morning as well, and yes I remember how “Gimme Ime” came out of nowhere and made the Blazer roster and started every game for a pretty crummy ballclub in Brandon’s rookie year
But I also remember that KP didn’t really offer Udoka a whole lot of incentive to stay in Portland that offseason … coincidence?
And since he’s been gone, the Blazers have flourished and Ime hasn’t exactly been setting the league on fire with the Spurs
I get that he’s tough and went all Chuck Norris on a gym full of west Africans but seriously…Ime Udoka is the missing piece? I know the Blazers are looking for toughness and veteran experience but I’d prefer it not be at the SF position and not a guy who coach Pop “wasn’t really all that into” giving significant minutes to as a role player
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
went all Chuck Norris on a gym full of west Africans
Best story ever.
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 22, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I have higher expectations for Batum then Bayless
It will happen sooner then you think.
He did it! Yes he did!
Agreed the stakes have been raised with those 54 wins
if Jerryd had been drafted back in ’06 like Sergio (when the team was winning 30 games a year and the playoffs were a hoped-for blip on the horizon) then the cries for “patience” would be more reasonable
But this is winning time, regardless how fans feel whether the “championship window” has opened yet, the Blazers have crossed a line and now are “contenders”—they aren’t expected to slip back into the lottery, and the time for developing young players during critical regular season minutes is “over”
Nate and Brandon can’t afford to “wait” around for Bayless to get his act together, nor should they be expected to
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
wow!
Well said. Wish I would have read this before wasting my time writing the same thing.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 21, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Great potential:
Best case for the Blazers is that Jerryd remains a solid improving bench player until he finishes his rookie contract. Then he finally catches fire in the season after they sign him to a medium-level long term contract.
Don't hate... appreciate!
I think the point to be made here is that while Blake is a solid player built to play in our system, he is a guy that while he doesn’t take a lot or anything off of the table in terms of minimizing mistakes, he doesn’t bring a lot to the table either. Whereas, if Bayless puts it together he can definitely drastically improve our team as he excels at the things Blake (penetrating, defending) doesn’t and Blake excels at the things Bayless doesn’t quite yet (running an efficient offense, minimizing turnovers, deferring to teammates when necessary, hitting open 3s). Therefore, I propose we combine both players to form a monster of a PG in Baylake (jk). I do believe that if Bayless is given consistent minutes and Nate lets him play through and learn from his mistakes then Bayless’ development as a PG will be substantial. I think people overlook an important point too in that while Nate is a great coach I believe he needs to lighten up a bit and work with what he’s got instead of trying to make players into something they’re not. For example, I believe it was a mistake to take Bayless out every time he turned the ball over instead of letting him play through his mistakes because that definitely hurt his confidence (maybe a reason for his poor shooting?) I also believe we need to push the tempo more and take advantage of our athleticism especially on the perimeter as I believe our second unit could prove to be very explosive with Bayless leading the way and excelling in transition. So pick up the PACE!
while Nate is a great coach I believe he needs to lighten up a bit and work with what he’s got instead of trying to make players into something they’re not
Interesting point, we were talking last week about how KP doesn’t necessarily draft or acquire players based on their position, he takes the “best player available” and Nate then tries to fit them together into a unit
(and McMillian’s been pretty successful at it, with the team’s W-L record increasing by a factor of 10 for the last three years, even though his roster was the youngest in the league)
So, I find it ironic when you say that Nate is “trying to make players into something they’re not” like it’s a “bad” thing. If KP brings him a combo guard and Nate says “we’ve got to find a way to utilize what Baytless does best” how is it McMillian’s fault that Jerryd isn’t considered a “real” PG at the end of the day? If KP and the scouts thought that a potential “pure” PG was what they were getting when they drafted Rex, then they’re not as clever as folks give them credit for being. But I think they knew what they were getting, and any “attempt” to help Jerryd “round out his game” during summer league was just that…and certainly not an extreme makeover or a “my way or the highway” ultimatum to Bayless from Sarge
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Get a scoring/playmaking SF and let the cake bake
I believe the solution to all this madness is to acquire a scoring threat at SF who is also a capable ballhandler that can set up teammates (Andre Iguodala, Caron Butler come to mind). Then we just let Bayless score off the bench or start him and have him focus on attacking the rim, look for the kickout to the open man and lock up his man on defense. It is simply not logical to fully take advantage of a player’s talent because they do not perform their role. Bayless is a gifted scorer and a real asset for our team and you can never have too much offense. Bayless brings a willingness to attack the basket that we simply lack other than Roy who is more of a finesse finisher anyways. I think it is stupid to try and fit Bayless into Blake’s role because that’s what Nate wants from him. Let Bayless do his thing and if he proves to be inefficient at it then trade him but, there is no reason to give up on him because he is not a true PG because we simply don’t need a John Stockton type of player when we already have Roy. I don’t believe our offense should be set in stone and so methodical and predictable because that got us in trouble in the Houston series. We need to diversify our offense besides running P&Rs or P&Ps or Roy isos. We need more penetration at the rim so that our shooters get more open looks and the defense is on their heels never knowing what to expect.
How is Bayless most valuable?
I think Bayless is a good player. He is great on the drive and his shot mechanics are good enough that he will become at least an average shooter in the NBA. His only problem is his size and no amount of time in the gym or on the court can fix that. His playing style fits the sg position but his size will never allow him to become a dominant sg in the NBA. In the end I think he will become a high energy, tempo changing reserve player.
Despite his size other teams have had much interest in Bayless, enough even to cause them to offer starting quality players such as Heinrick in return. So my question is why would keeping a player who may never be a starter and most definitely won’t for the next 2-3 years be better than getting a young starter who immediately makes an impact on the team?
The argument made in this post is that keeping Bayless is a win/win situation. I don’t see it that way. The problem with keeping Bayless is that if his potential as a pg isn’t realized his value to the rest of the league is much less than it is right now, and his value to us is diminished as well with Roy and Fernandez getting all the sg minutes.
KP is very proud of his draft picks and thats not a bad thing, it is part of the reason that the rest of the league values Bayless so high as well. This is a moment when I believe KP needs to give up potential for guaranteed production. Bayless is more valuable to the Blazers as trade bait.
Life's short, Stunt it!!
by Irwin Fletcher on Jul 21, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions
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