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Take a Risk KP - Does He Have It In Him? (with poll)


Okay, I am not OFF the KP bandwagon, but I have a thought to throw out today for the general conversation.

There has been speculation that KP is weak outside of draft day, and that is the reason for the "struggles" this summer.

There has been a theory that KP overvalues players, and that based on that, he is unable to make moves.

There has been a theory that KP undervalues other GMs, namely that he keeps calling them back with lopsided offers because his ego tells him that he is smarter than everyone else and eventually he's gonna catch a sucker.

I offer another possibility, one that I have not really seen debated:

KP doesn't like risks.

All of the moves for which the Blazers are given so much credit, while very very smart and in keeping with a plan, are calculated moves.  But as any poker player will tell you, you can't win just be taking the "safe" move every time.  Even if you play "perfect" poker, the guy who takes some risks and bluffs some hands is going to beat you in the end.


For the general discussion, can anyone point to a move KP has made that really involved risk?  Here are the moves (or desired moves) that, in my estimation, he is given the most credit for:

  1. (desired move) Wanted to draft Chris Paul instead of Martell.  Well, duh, everyone knew that wasthe right move, and that we were stupid to be banking on Telfair, but management was just too stupid.  So, Kevin was just as smart as Blazersedge on that one.
  2. (move) Trading Telfair and change to Boston for the Brandon Roy draft pick. High reward, no risk...TElfair was a bum, we knew it, KP didn't want him in the first place, and the draft pick was going to deliver a better chance at landinga  piece that would be in the rotation
  3. (move) Trading for LA We traded UP in this scenario, and basically gave up nothing, so little risk, other than Tyrus Thomas blowing up. 
  4. (not even a move) Winning the lottery and drafting Greg OdenThis one probably isn't fair, as he isn't really given credit for winning the lottery by some skill, nevertheless, the Oden draft seems to factor into his "mystique" as if good things just happen when he's around.  We lost the lottery the year before, so the numbers just evened themselves out.
  5. (move)  Getting Bayless at 11 in the draft for Jarret and 14.  Again, no risk there, really, as everyone wanted Jack gone and we wanted a PG.  It was fortuitous that Bayless dropped, but KP had nothing to do with that.  
  6. (move)Dumping Zach.  Good move, but no risk, as everyone was ready for him to be gone. And, with Frye gone, it really has left no lasting impact other than to dump an unwanted player's salary, which cap space hasn't been used yet.
  7. (move) Buying draft picks for cash and getting Sergio/Rudy.  Needless to say, this is the benefit of having a rich owner, and does not really involve risk, nor did getting Rudy to agree to come. 

So, I'm sure there are other moves that could be brought up, but what these moves above show me is that KP is smart, and that the talent evaluation abilities of Pritchard and the Blazers' staff are mostly strong.  But, if they are such good talent evaluators, they also have to be able to take risks based on those evaluations.  Give up someone you think has potential for someone you evaluate as having abilities that mesh with the team.  It may or will likely mean giving up a Rudy or a Bayless or a Batum, and those players might later "blow up," but such moves are necessary to move forward sometimes.  Sure, it's nice if every deal you make is lopsided in your favor because you outsmarted the other guy, but you just can't wait for the sure things, and hope to be successful.

In other words, for the Texas Hold'em poker players out there, if the only hands you're playing are Pocket Aces and A-K, and you're afraid to ever go all in unless you have a nut flush, with no pairs or suited connectors on the board you're probably not going to make it to the final table, as you'll be blinded out long before.

Agree?  Disagree?

Poll
Is KP TOO conservative in his approach to risk-taking?
Yes, I think he is bent on only playing with Pocket Aces or A-K, and that strategy has meant we missed out on some good hands.
91 votes
No, KP takes just the right amount of risk. He plays the cards he's got when he's mostly sure they are good enough to win the hand. Taking more risk would be foolhardy.
141 votes
No. KP takes too many risks (for reasons I will explain in comments)
1 votes

233 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 78 comments

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On a warm summers evenin on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin out the window at the darkness
til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, son, Ive made a life out of readin peoples faces,
And knowin what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you dont mind my sayin, I can see youre out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey Ill give you some advice.

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, if youre gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.

So when hed finished speakin, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count you r money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 16, 2009 10:24 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

but the time for playing our cards is now.

Unless we risk leaving LMA and Roy un-extended until next summer, we have until February’s trade deadline to do something, anything, with this cap space that we have been maneuvering to get for years. If KP doesn’t play his cards now, we lose our shot.

by howlingfantods on Jul 16, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cap holds

Even if we did leave them unextended until next summer, wouldn’t they create cap holds that would still prevent us from signing anyone, unless we renounced our rights to them (banish the thought)?

by DC Blazer on Jul 16, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

*shrug*

I imagine there’s a pretty major cap figure difference between extending them now versus extending them in late summer 2010. What’s a cap hold pre-extension based on? their qualifying offer amount?

by howlingfantods on Jul 16, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

next summer cap holds

Roy 11.73
LMA 14.6 or 17.5*

Both based on 250% or 300% of previous year’s salary (300% if previous salary was below league average, 250% if not)

  • LMA’s 09-10 salary is 5.8 million, which is right around the league average salary. If it’s at or over, then cap hold is 14.6, if not, it’s 17.5 Either value is MORE than a max contract will be

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jul 16, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny Rogers

Would have traded for Devin Harris before he went to the Nets

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong

Rogers would have drafted CP3, and then injured him for 2 years to ensure that we still get Roy, LMA, and Oden.

The Princess of Blazersedge

by Zaig on Jul 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're confusing

Kenny Rogers with Jeff Gillooly

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trading for Harris before he went to the Nets

Funny you mention this. I was a huge proponent of trying to nab Harris. I even sent a trade proposal to Henry Abbott, back in January of ‘08. It was Miles, Outlaw, and Jack for Harris and Trenton Hassell. I thought it was a great deal. Upgrade our point and jettison Miles. Henry strongly disagreed. I don’t think anyone on here will question Henry’s qualifications. If he thought it was a bad move, it’s hard to say KP choked by not making it.

Here’s what Henry wrote:

Oh man, no thanks. A reasonably priced plastic man with a knack for making big plays in big games — at the right age for our schedule and at a position that does not conflict with Oden, Roy, or Aldridge — I think Travis Outlaw might be among the most keeperest of keepers.

I also think Jack is a keeper, as one of the only Blazers who is truly gritty.

Miles would be nice to get rid of, but I wouldn’t even give up Jack to do so. Miles’ contract comes off the books when it has to, and we have no great free agent need anyway. We have Bird rights with the people we need to keep.

And I like Devin Harris, but another “maybe he’s a starter” point guard seems to not be what we need.

If I were Portland I’d throw in Martell and/or James Jones (if we think he’ll walk this summer) with this year’s picks as sweeteners to get the Miles contract off the books. If nobody goes for it, fine, we’ll wait and try to make him retire.

Henry Abbott
ESPN.com’s TrueHoop NBA Blog
http://www.truehoop.com
TrueHoop@gmail.com

by DC Blazer on Jul 16, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point exactly

It was not a sure thing at all back then, even though it seems so now.

It would have been a risk.

And it would have been the right thing to do.

Not saying he choked, but that if suych a deal would have been accepted, then not taking it was based on being too risk averse, in my opinion.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

just goes to show

that even the best of us make horribe, horrible mistakes when judging talent.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 16, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should sing this before every summer league game

the National Anthem of Las Vegas. – Elgin

Without you out there, we're nowhere here

by 22baylor on Jul 16, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a man who has made a ton of money playing poker

in a very conservative fashion, I must disagree with your premise. You don’t have to take big risks to get big rewards, you simply have to play differently than your opponents. If you are at a table full of risk takers, it pays to be very conservative.

So I guess the question is, how are the other GM’s playing their cards?

by SalemORguy on Jul 16, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's a simple example to discredit "big risk big reward"

I was bought into the world series of poker main event this year, so I was risking absolutely nothing with a chance to win big money. If I lost I had to pay back nothing. If I win, I got to keep a percentage of the winnings. So I had ZERO risk with a chance for big reward. It was my backer that had the high risk high reward in this scenario, not me.

The Princess of Blazersedge

by Zaig on Jul 16, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure how that discredits anything

My point is…the zero risk big reward things are rare…and when you ahve a finite resource (time in this case), you can’t just wait around for someone to buy you in.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm not talking big risk here

trading Outlaw and Jack (see above) would not have been BIG RISK, but it was a risk, nonetheless

I’m not advocating trading BRANDON or LMA or ODEN here…I’m talking here about giving up some potential upside (which our team has a TON of) for a known (read veteran) commodity or two that is better than what we have now but with less upside, even though there might be a risk that the thing you trade away blossoms into something better.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Your point is well taken here. Some of those young guys are not going to pan out, and hence ar overvalued. Lets trade someone (but no Batum and Rudy unless its for somebody really good.)

by goblazer1 on Jul 16, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

poker <> basketball

this is a terrible analogy. the original post about kp being risk averse and unable to operate once the deals present risk on his side is spot on but the poker analogy is terrible.

by colinmarsh on Jul 16, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only get pushy when I have AK, KK, or AA

It has worked out well for me. Sure I will limp in with a lesser hand but I only push the beasts… unless I have position and want to buy a pot.

by Escrote on Jul 16, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay,

But buying a pot (moderate risk, moderate reward) still assumes noone behind you was slow playing something and waiting for you to try.

I’d like to see a couple of those “buying a pot” moves.

Not asking him to go ALL IN, to strain the analogy

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the Millsap move not buying the pot....

or it is at least a value bet. Sure we know he is not ours but we our willing to wager a little bit of our stack to take a stab, force some action.

by Escrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not really

he’s not risking anything but money. while that is the currency in poker, here, it is talent.

extending an offer to the BPA is just the “smart” move.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

Just wish they’d risk some of the PLAYER stack…that’s the big value chips…the money stack is the low value chips

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got to know when to walk away.

Even if we don’t use the cap space we will still have some good chips.4 rooks from last year will all improve IMO upping there trade value even more. I think eventually we will probably have to trade Rudy but we have him for 2 more years to do it. Same goes for Batum & Bayless.Organic improvement. If we can get some upgrade for Trout & Blake + caproom or euro’s great, if not I still love where this team is at.There is a time to stand pat. This could be it.

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, but...

Blazers have a habit of not being willing to part with someone until they are no longer as valuable. That comes from being too risk averse. Sergio is the perfect example

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sergio was never going to get us that much.

Bayless,Batum & Rudy all have more trade value now then Sergio ever did & they are just starting.

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And "unmovable" if you believe other teams

he won’t part with them while they still have huge “upside”.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he would for the right player

You hear that from teams that want them but want to give us an average player back. why trade a player on a rook. contract that might become an allstar for an average or small upgrade like Hinrich.

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you believe he is only a small upgrade you don't

But all reports are that KP is sailivating to get Hinrich. If that’s the case, trying to fleece Chicago at the same time by not giving anything up is waiting for double bullets to show up before betting.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Outlaw & Blake are fair value for Hinrich

I would not trade Batum or Rudy for4 him straight up.I might be willing to throw in Bayless for Blake but I would have to get a draft pick back

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Jul 16, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinirch>Rudy

Quality Starting PG>Reserve SG
Quality Starting PG on a team that needs a quality starting PG >> Reserve SG on a team that currently has another reserve SG playing out of position

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy would start in Chicago

Just because he does not here does not make it a good swap

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does if it fills a need

and avoids roster duplication

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BPA only takes you so far

You can’t have five SFs on your roster with a hole at PG, or five point guards on your roster with a hole at C

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I stated in my first comment I think we will eventually trade Rudy.

I am not against trading Rudy in a package for a Quality(substantial upgrade Hinrich however has peaked.To much for to little

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why has he peaked?

Because they brought in Rose.

Doesn’t that mirror the point you made about why Rudy is more valuable than I’ve given him credit for…he’s dtart somewhere else?

So would Hinrich…and the fact that a top ten point guard has a top five point guiard on his team does not change the fact he’s a top ten point guard

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Almost 30

How many players improve after that age?Also isn’t that why they are willing to trade him duplication like us with outlaw. why is it that outlaw is less valuable because we have other 3’s but Hinrich is just in the same situation

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Outlaw is less valuable

because he’s basketball stupid. We NEED a starting three and were still willing to pay 50 million for one; that tells you all you need to know about Travis.

I’m not asking for Hinrich to improve. I’d take his last full season stats as a starter as our starter.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

or Disagreed, as the case may be

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are upgrading from Blake at the cost of player we no longer have room for

again, it’s a no risk all reward offer.

Which is why Chicago hasn’t accepted it.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In what scenario?

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They get a starting 2, we get a starting one

Our starting PG improves (Hinrich vs. Blake), our backup PG improves (Blake vs. Bayless), and, I would argue, our backup 2 doesn’t drop enough to make the benefits gained by the first two comparisons vanish (Bayless v. Rudy)

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Kirk were 24 like Rudy I do that trade

Slight upgrade for 1 or 2 years No

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk is 28

not exactly over the hill

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd argue he fits the window

better than young guys (Sessions, Conley) or old guys (Miller, Nash)

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want Miller or Nash either

Would do Rudy for Conley in a second

He did it! Yes he did!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jul 16, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am confused...

Did you just say Bayless is only a slight drop off from Rudy at the 2?!?!… That’s going to be a hard sell. I absolutely would not included Rudy or Nic in a deal for Kirk… Bayless maybe…but not those two. I’m not a big Kirk fan though. I think he’s an upgrade because of his defense but he’s not worth the potential value of either of those guys.

by Ilikeemall on Jul 16, 2009 3:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

huh
But all reports are that KP is sailivating to get Hinrich

Sorry, I’ve got to call BS on this. I’ve read pretty much EVERY Blazer-related internet report in the past months, and I have yet to find ANY credible evidence to back up this claim. There is a lot of unfounded speculation that Portland has gone after Hinrich – none of which could be accurately described as “salivating”, and there is a lot of people (particularly here on BE) who are salivating for Hinrich, but all of that salivation is blog-poster driven.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jul 16, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Jul 16, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As Warren Buffett will tell you

you don’t win by making speculative gambles.

If we’re playing poker, take your risks if you want. If we’re investing, make your risks be carefully calculated.

KP’s risky moves:
1. Dumping Zach and drafting Oden. We could have had an LMA/Zach/Durant/Roy/Blake or Jack lineup. This would probably have won 50 games the first year, because Durant was much more polished than Oden. KP took the risk of drafting Oden and dumping Zach, because that lineup would probably have never won a championship.
2. Trading up to get Nic. This cost us a very high second round pick, which could have been a solid role player or a stashed Euro.
3. Drafting Rudy.
4. Trading Jarrett to move up only two spots in the draft.
etc.

These moves all carried varying measures of risk. KP is not risk averse. He obviously looks to assess the risk and looks for a low risk to reward ratio. The only really high risk move was the Zach trade/Oden draft, and that risk was mitigated by the fact that Zach was an idiot on and off the court.

None of us can really tell how risk averse KP is, because we don’t know what deals he has turned down. We know about the rumors, but we don’t know what has been on the table, really. We can only guess at how risk averse he is by assessing the deals he has made. That tells me he is cautious, but not fearful.

KP was a big Sergio fan, and just traded away a guy that he probably still thinks has a chance to be very successful. There was some risk in trading him away, especially since it leaves us with a very green Bayless as our backup PG. But he clearly decided that even if Sergio does find success, it was time to make this move. There was some risk in doing so — not a really large risk, but still some.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Jul 16, 2009 12:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Taking Durant would have been more risky

No one would ever question whether taking Oden was the right move, even if Durant ends up better.
Dumping Zach – we know he HAD to do that.
Not sure the risk in trading up to get Nick…we didn’t need TWO rookies to add to our other three, adding ONE was more than enough
Drafting Rudy? We BOUGHT Rudy, and only bought the pick because we knew that’s what we wanted. Spending 3 million of Paul Allen’s money is NOT a risk
Trading Jarrett only happened because he knew what he wanted. There was no risk. If the players we wanted were not available, the trade wouldn’t have gone down. And everyone in the Rose Garden on the last day of the season before that draft knew Jarrett was gone. It was just a matter of where or how

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They drafted Rudy for us

We could have had the rights to any available player at 24, the deal was arranged prior to the draft. KP went with the risk of a guy who might never play in the league, and who surely wouldn’t play for at least a year.

We traded a decent role player (Jarrett) to move up a measly two places in the draft. That was risky, and he still gets a lot of flack for it from people who don’t believe in Bayless. And the deal was agreed before the draft, when he did not know who would be available, because he was telling his staffers that Indiana would draft a PG — he knew, because he had agreed to trade for the pick and so was going to tell them who to draft.

In trading for Nick, we risked a high second round pick to get a very young, very green player who might not have been able to contribute for 3 years, if ever. Was that risk small? Yes, because the cost of failure was not very high. But to say there was no risk in it is insupportable.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Jul 16, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We may have had to dump Zach

but it still carried some risk. He was the leading scorer on the team. The team could have gotten WORSE. He was panned at the time for that trade by people who did not understand the corrosive nature of ZBo’s game

"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy

by Honka Playboy on Jul 16, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The team getting worse

wouldn’t have been such a risk. No one wanted to go to games as it was. It is a business, and the “Zach business model” was broken

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 18, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

other risk

Drafting Brandon the Senior polished player with “little upside” over Foye the higher upside combo guard.

by boppitywop on Jul 16, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention the way we acquired Brandon.

Forcing MN’s hand the way we did was a risk. I don’t think we wanted Foye, and we could have been stuck with him.

by DC Blazer on Jul 16, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a win-win

Draft BPA, then try to force trade for guy you really want.
Classic KP move.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Poker is less gambling than "investing"

My Bodog account has seen %1000+ growth, my ETrade account keeps going down.

by Escrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not buying that he isn't a risk-taker.

I think going 5/$50M for a 30 year old is a big risk.

I think one could just as easily say it’s risky to sign a 25 year old with a history of knee surgeries to a 5/$85M deal.

He’s misfired less than he’s nailed it. What GM gets it right 100% of the time?

But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 16, 2009 12:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I would submit that *any* GM with the best young roster in the league doesn't like risks

Doubly so for a GM working for an owner who almost sold the team a couple years ago due to a ‘broken financial model’

What’s the big deal about taking a bunch of risks? Didn’t we just get past a period where we took a bunch of risks and failed? Short memories are dangerous.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jul 16, 2009 1:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Manage risk

Take certain types of risks.

I believe we swung the pendulum back too far the other way is all I’m saying.

Most taking the poll agree

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what's with all the poker analogies?

they don’t really fit tbh. if you’re a long term poker player who makes his living off his game, you’re rarely going to take “big risks”. there are certain styles that are more volatile than others, but your overall goal is to maximize your expected returns.

some of the most profitable players in the game are “grinders”, those who grind a narrow advantage over long periods of time for consistent profit. they don’t take big risks, they make the smart, proven path, and they win with a startling degree of regularity.

obviously the nba is different. there isn’t that “long-term picture” where you can sit around and pick your spots. so my point is, the analogy sucks. no offense op.

by wackybrak on Jul 16, 2009 1:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

who said anything about big risks?

I hate getting straw-manned

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

making the same one-sided offers to the same teams that have told him no FIVE times. Maybe the sixth will get it done, though. After all, he IS KP.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 16, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My sources said it was 13 times...

I am not sure you have good sources.

by Escrote on Jul 16, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

great post

i think it sums up well pritchard’s problems. he’s constantly looking for “gasol” deals – ones that are so obviously in your favor that no one wouldn’t make them. he now has acquired pieces and needs to trade some of them to improve the team and he’s failing.

i believe that this past trade deadline was the time to make a move given how weak the FA class was going to be. he still has time to make up for that but i just don’t think he will because he has far too many “untouchables” amongst his players.

i believe he won’t trade bayless / rudy or batum right now which are the 3 that other teams would actually have interest in. the other guy he should be trying to swing a deal with is przybilla but i suspect he considers him untradeable as well.

frye is another guy that should have been dealt after he posted great numbers at the end of the 08’ season. his value was at its peak and it should have been obvious with przybilla / oden & aldridge in the mix that he was not going to see time. pritchard’s over-attachment to young talent is hard to argue against.

i think he believes that someone is going to take spare parts ( outlaw / webster / blake ) and give him something great in return. since that’s been rebuffed he’s been unable to make a deal work.

by colinmarsh on Jul 16, 2009 2:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How many of his deals

have been “gasol” deals?

Cuban thought he got a good deal in getting 2 second rounders for swapping first rounders.

Bird thought he got a good deal in getting Jack and Rush for the 11th pick.

Isiah thought he got a good deal in picking up a 20/10 guy for Frye and dumping a cancer (Stevie Franchise) in the process.

Sarver thought he got a good deal in clearing a little cap space (James Jones) and picking up some cash to pay his high-priced stars.

Houston thought they got a good deal in turning the 25 pick into the 27 and Joey Dorsey.

I think it is silly to say that KP is constantly looking for “gasol” deals. The deals he has made have not been obviously one-sided at the time he made them. Obviously, he would take a deal like that, but if that were the kind of deal he proposed to teams, they wouldn’t even take his phone calls any more.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Jul 16, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that's just silly

No one is suggesting the deals are only AGasol moves. We’re suggesting (or I’m suggesting) they’re not the kind of deals where he’s giving anything up that he values. And that’s why the deal didn’t get done at the trade deadline and why a deal hasn’t been done here.

Those deals were available. We don’t know the specifics, but we know that there were deals available. It is possible that what was being asked for was “too much” as has been repeated so often as to become boring, but I highly doubt we would necessaril;y all agree with what KP said was “too much.” Look at what has been given up for what in this offseason, and you have an idea that maybe, just maybe, KP was trying a little too hard to give up too little, and instead got nothing in return.

Doesn’t mean something couldn’t still come through and there might not be some “something for nothing” deal from a desperate, broke team coming through before the trade deadline, but I think waiting for that deal, rather than giving something up (LOGJAMS, ANYONE?) is a mistake that we will regret down the road.

Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!

And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!

by blazer91 on Jul 18, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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