Rumor: Hinrich/ Boozer trade revived by adding NYK (UPDATE)
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM PDT
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PrintUPDATE: Additional article that says that the Jazz might be interested in David Lee - (read somewhere else, he might accept a 1 yr deal?)
This feed brings up the rumor; but dismisses it, shortly thereafter. The logic to dismiss doesn't hold up if we're talking about a post-Millsap matched world. Speculation on what the trade might look like follows:
According to ESPN, the previous 3 way discussion was stalled because CHI wanted a backcourt addition (Jerryd Bayless) and UTA wanted a younger replacement for Boozer (Tyrus Thomas). With the Knicks in the mix; they have two RFAs that roughly fit those roles in Nate Robinson, David Lee. If Utah is less concerned about the luxury tax, and more concerned about letting Boozer get away for nothing it would make sense for them to work out a S&T for Lee around the ~$9M he's expecting to put together a solid front-court rotation (Millsap, Lee, Okur)
What would the Knicks get? Perhaps they could unload Jared Jeffries and his two year contract to maximize cap/ '10 free agency plan). Blake and Outlaw would make them more respectable in the upcoming season. They probably already miss Jerome James so bring him back to NY, as well.
Knicks give up: Jared Jeffries ($6.5M), David Lee (S&T, $9M), Nate Robinson (S&T, $5.2M) = $20.7M
Knicks get: Blake ($4M), Outlaw (3.6M), Jerome James (6.6M), Matt Harpring ($6.5M) = $20.7M
Bulls give up: Kirk Hinrich ($9.5M), Jerome James (6.6M), = $16.1M
Bulls get: Carlos Boozer (1 yr rental, $12.6M), Nate Robinson ($5.2M) = $17.8M
Uta gives up: Carlos Boozer (12.4M), Harpring ($6.5M) = $18.9M
Uta gets: David Lee (~$9M) +$9.9M cap relief
Portland gives up: Blake ($4M), Outlaw ($3.6M), + $8.4M CAP (renounce Koponen)
Portland gets: Kirk Hinrich ($9.5M), Jared Jeffries ($6.5M) = $16M
I favor a simpler Hinrich move, but am not sure that's on the table and although Hinrich detractor will say it's too high a price - I actually think Jeffries might be an asset to the Blazers, who is a capable defender at multiple positions.
Hinrich/ Bayless/ Mills (PG/SG)
Roy/ Fernandez
Webster/ Batum/ Cunningham (SF/PF)
Aldridge/ Jeffries
Oden/ Przybilla/ Pendergraph (PF/C)
I'm not sure how sign & trade deals work with the cap, so please educate me on the viability of this idea. But it's worth noting that when Chicago could not deal Tim Thomas they decided to waive him - which although it doesn't get them under the cap - get them closer. Click through this link to see the deal without Lee/ Robinson involved.
Thoughts?
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that's okay
just as long as they’re in the eastern conference.
by GreatOdensRaven on Jul 14, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Go for it.
I completely agree with your footer. Oden, Aldridge, Roy.
That’s what it needs to come to, and I think it will.
But Hinrich is Chicago’s best perimeter defender. I would love to see him in black and red.
by BlazerNation on Jul 15, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
then why do
they want David Lee on what would undoubtedly long contract
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
he is decent and young
but presumably they dump Boozer to keep Milsap, but if you take back Lee then you are basically back to square one
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Trade doesn't work
The Bulls can’t take in 17M while sending out 9.5M. Portland’s cap space doesn’t make any difference in that. It’s only Portland that could do something like that—we can’t just give cap space to Chicago to use.
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
Fixed
I added Jerome James and Matt Harpring to the Knicks side of the equation as they were enjoying the cap relief Portland created; rather than splitting it between CHI & UTA. NYK do get get relief for next summer, as all but Jordan Hill and Eddy Curry are on 1 yr contracts.
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jul 14, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Bulls can't do this
they would be sending out 9.5 million and taking back 17 million (12.7 + 5 ). nowhere near close
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
it was like 2 seconds....and I got sidetracked doing actual work.
;-)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Actual work?
loser.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Hey, Hey Hey... Can't we all just get along?
Besides, the real loser is someone who proposes some outlandish trade without any knowledge of or effort to check the trade rules and guidelines.
hakkaa päälle !
Flagged unless you can provide an excel spreadsheet explaining how that is not an Ad Hom attack!
The Princess of Blazersedge
I take no offense
and thus refuse to press charges.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I would like to press charges on this one.
Ban please.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
That was directed at Jscot
However, if you wish to redirect the blast at you, and then take no offense to it, you may under article C subclause A of the Ad-Hom handbook.
The Princess of Blazersedge
You just commented about the nature of my comment
You also said “flagged”.
Both are considered ad hom under Dave’s definition.
My problem is I can’t post this without commenting about the nature of your comment.
What shall I do? You already know.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Yours or mine?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I was trying to stay "TRUE" to the rumor and involved Lee; but this would certainly simplify things!
According to ESPN’s Trade Machine that’s real close, renouncing a Euro (Koponen) would be enough to get it done.
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jul 14, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Not good for Jazz
Why would the Jazz want to replace Boozer with Lee? Doesn’t that leave them with the same issue as before, two expensive players at the ‘4’?
Agreed
This is what I don’t understand about the any of the rumors involving the Knicks and Boozer. If the lynchpin of the deal is an S&T involving Lee & Boozer, who is that is supposedly going to take Lee, and where is Utah getting the cap space it’s looking for from? Surely Utah doesn’t want Lee next to Millsap. Moreover, the Blazers and OKC would not play facilitator by taking Lee, because that would simply give them what they can already have (Lee) while helping a division rival.
Portland might do it
To preserve their MLE (which they lose if they sign Lee themselves), or to also get Hinrich.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
I believe
we already renounced MLE
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
I thought just to be under the cap
we had to renounce all of our exceptions as they counted as cap holds. If we could just unrenounce our exceptions what would keep anyone from getting under the cap, using the cap space, and they unrenouncing exceptions? I dont think the cap is designed like that.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Boozer could be had for Picks
they just need cap space, I say work a deal with Houston for Battier, Dallas for Terry, or Detroit for Prince in a 3 way and just give Utah as little salary as possible and 2 first round picks
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
Houston and Dallas
don’t want Boozer at the price.
Houston has like 53,000 power forwards anyway, don’t they?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
isnt Mobely medically retired?
also, why not just go back and include Bayless in the 3 team trade that was orignially proposed rather than making a near record setting trade
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
Huh?
The Knicks would never let go of D’Antoni’s boy Gallinari. #52 that would not work. BTW is your job boring? Cuz mine is!
How about . . .
Utah trades Boozer (12.6 mill)
Utah recieves Lee (approximately 9.5 mill)
NY sign and trades Lee
NY recieves Boozer
Portland gets Millsap
OR
Utah signs Millsap
Utah sends Boozer to NY
Utah recieves Robinson
Ny signs and trades Robinson to Utah
NY signs Lee for 7.7 mill and sends him to Portland
NY recieves Boozer
Portland trades 2nd round pick to Utah
Portland recieves Lee
For Portland, I like the first trade better.
Why?
Why would Portland help Utah shed Boozer and pick up Robinson for a 2nd round pick?
If we wanted Lee, we could just sign him. I guess this ensures that NY doesn’t match, but I think this is a bad deal for us. Plus, I don’t think Lee would be a good pickup.
i dont understand why utah
would get rid of both millsap and boozer. i thought they were pretty high on millsap? possibly as high as we think of batum?
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jul 15, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
what im trying to do is....
to fill all our holes in one trade because if Utah does trade boozer they will match millsap. so we need to get a PG SF and a back up PF so then we dont feel bad when millsap leaves
I'm sure so does Pritchard, but the chances of that happening are microscopical. He would have a better chance acquiring Wallace and Felton in one move than a 4-team-trade
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 14, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just sign Lee to an offer sheet.
If they really want a player to backup LA, and Lee agreed to come off the bench provided he still got substantial playtime, if they offered Lee a similar contract that was offered to Millsap, NY would not match. They still feel like they’re in the driver’s seat to get LeBron so they wouldn’t want to tie up all that salary. Right??? Is it not this simple?
Why not just..
Booz to NYK, Lee to PDX, contract filler to Utah?
This one seems so simple, but hasn’t really been rumored. Doesn’t everybody win, here?
Perhaps it’s some cap space technicality.
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
That assumes we want Lee at whatever price he's asking...
I’m skeptical that we do.
Also, assuming that he is asking more than our available cap space, it would require us to throw in another player to make the numbers work, thereby making Lee even more costly.
Lee doesn't want to be a backup
Millsap is willing.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
You think Millsap is happy to be a backup to LMA because his agent told Portland that?
You don’t suppose that helped them get an offer from PDX for Utah to match?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 15, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate and Millsap have already talked about roles
If Paul wasn’t “down” with not starting, KP wouldn’t have extended the offer sheet.
The Blazers are only interested in pursuing the “right” people, regardless of position. Not sure if Lee fits that criteria; pretty sure that Millsap does
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Come on, the kid's 24 and his NBA dream is to be backup PF,
when he has starter ability and will start in Utah? That was just posturing to get PDX to extend an offer so Utah would match. Within days of signing the PDX offer his agent started saying Millsap could be a starter in PDX because the Blazer’s wanted to play small ball.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 15, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not just
Booz to NYK, Lee and filler to Utah, Utah doesn’t match on Millsap?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I give this solid odds of happening
Makes sense to me. Would love to see it.
Discussed on this post as well:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/14/949881/why-utah-might-let-millsap-go
works for me
but I’m sure there’s something I’m overlooking…the Jazz may match Millsap just to spite Portland, they don’t like being bullied
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We aren't the bully
We are offering a reasonable contract for a good player. If Utah can’t/won’t match a reasonable contract that is their problem.
If anyone was taking advantage of the situation it’s Utah. They told the world they would match any offer. Waited and waited and didn’t offer Milsap anything; hoping to get him on the cheap.
Only thing they could to spite Portland is to sign Milsap and refuse to trade Boozer if Portland was involved in the trade. Or course, that would be financially ludicrous.
It would help NY
freeing up cap space gives them a legit chance to get LeBron…
"be where you are when you're there"
Here's the deal that seems like the logical extension of this stuff
New York trades:
David Lee ($9.5m)
Chris Wilcox (S+T, $3.5m)
New York receives:
Steve Blake ($4m)
Brad Miller ($12.2m)
Future 1st (not the Knicks one)
Demarcus Nelson ($736k)
Utah trades:
Carlos Boozer ($12.3m)
Matt Harpring ($6.5m)
CJ Miles ($3.7m)
Future 1st (not the Knicks one)
Utah receives:
David Lee ($9.5m)
Travis Outlaw ($3.6m)
Chris Wilcox (S+T, $3.5m)
Chicago trades:
Kirk Hinrich ($9.5m)
Brad Miller ($12.2m)
Demarcus Nelson ($736k)
Chicago receives:
Carlos Boozer ($12.3m)
Matt Harpring ($6.5m)
CJ Miles ($3.7m)
Portland trades:
Steve Blake ($4m)
Travis Outlaw ($3.6m)
Portland receives:
Kirk Hinrich ($9.5m)
and the Jazz do not match on Millsap
There are an absolute ton of modifications on this core, including some involving Deng if Chicago really wants to clear 2010 space.
Also
What I want to know is… what happens to Millsap in this scenario? Doesn’t look like he’s on any of the rosters. You say Jazz get $8M+ of cap relief, but that would probably end up going to Millsap, would it not?
Portland gets hosed.
Giving up our 3rd and 4th option scorers, for a guy that might be as good as our 4th option on offense (Blake, but Rudy could really be our 4th option next year which would mean that Blake would be our 5th option), but clearly better on defense. But not even close enough to cover the 13 and 4 disparity from including Travis in the deal.
"The cake wasn’t the only lie..." -blazeraddict
Not that bad
In this scenario we would also be getting to walk away with Millsap at a very reasonable price. So in a way we’re doing the trade to help Utah out so they won’t match. Sending Blake and Outlaw to get Hinrich and Millsap is an amazing deal for the blazers. We can try out Millsap for a year and if it doesn’t work with him as a backup then we can trade the last 3 years of very reasonable salary to almost anyone. Then use pendergraph or cunningham as a backup 4.
by TigardTrailblazer on Jul 15, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That's true.
But I was assuming they were moving Boozer, so they had room to sign Millsap. I mean why would they be moving Boozer otherwise? But yea I would trade Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich and Millsap, but I am pretty sure that’s not what this post is saying..
"The cake was a lie..." -blazeraddict
Mad Matt -
You still have a problem with this trade – both Lee and Robinson are BYC. Meaning that NY can only take back a maximum of $17.1 million if they send out Jeffries, Lee and Robinson.
A bunch of goofus speculation.
See: Utah is INTO LUXURY TAX when they match for Millsap. They DO NOT WANT TO BE IN LUXURY TAX LAND. They need to DUMP Boozer, not trade him for other high-priced players.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
yep
So either they have to deal with OKC or the “bullies” up here in Portland
unless they can find an NBA team with a whole lot of unguaranteed contracts?
(Like…Milwaukee with Bruce Bowen and Salim Stoudamire? Nahh…)
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Boozer is an expiring contract
the Bucks would actually gain an additional 7mil in potential 2010 cap money if they made a deal involving Bowen and Salim for Carlos, then just let Boozer’s contract expire
Bowen and Stoudamire are non-guaranteed contracts, which I assume means that Utah could trade for them then immediately release them, and get out from under 5 mil$ in salary obligation. This could (in effect) lighten their luxury tax “blow” by 10 mil$
But I just cant see Boozer in Milwaukee, I think he’s on his way to the Heat
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Shouldn't these teams delay the trade until after the Jazz spend money on Millsap?
I would think there would be more leverage after money is spent on Millsap.
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