Blazers Offer Paul Millsap
by Ben. on Jul 10, 2009 3:23 PM PDT
in News
718 comments
Chris Broussard of ESPN writes...
The Portland Trail Blazers have offered Utah Jazz free agent Paul Millsap a four-year contract worth between $32 million and $36 million, according to league sources.
The offer includes a hefty signing bonus that will make it difficult for Utah to match. The Jazz will be presented with the offer Saturday and have seven days to match because Millsap is a restricted free agent.
---------------------
Update (5:59PM): Jason Quick of The Oregonian has confirmation from Kevin Pritchard and writes...
The Trail Blazers have tendered an offer sheet to Utah power forward Paul Millsap, general manager Kevin Pritchard said Friday, and Millsap's agent said the player plans to sign the offer sheet tonight.
---------------------
This coincides with the "toxic offer" Jason Quick first reported earlier this week. A large signing bonus and/or front-loaded salaries were seen as the two most likely methods for applying the most pressure to a Jazz franchise already well over the salary cap.
This offer, however, comes in quite a bit below what John Hollinger wrote would be the maximum Portland could offer Millsap: 5 years, $45 million. It would seem upon first glance that the Jazz would prefer paying the younger Millsap roughly $9 million a year compared to Boozer's $12 million plus salary for next season and could possibly afford both next season.
If the Blazers have included the maximum allowable signing bonus of 17.5% of the total salary, the Jazz could be looking at an up-front signing bonus payment of as much as $6.3 million dollars to Millsap. Combined with the first year's salary (which would be charged double as paying Millsap would throw them into the luxury tax), the Jazz could be looking at a total outlay of more than $18 million dollars this year to match this offer, assuming they do not shed any other salary. Estimate provided by BE reader Kevin Scooter.
Storyteller confirms with similar figures...
Giving Millsap $6 million in a signing bonus, $6.2 million over the course of the season, and then paying out $7.7 million in luxury tax next summer... Matching costs Utah roughly $20 million in cash over the next 12 months.
In related news, Awoj tweeted this morning that...
The Utah Jazz are intensifying efforts today to trade Carlos Boozer, multiple league executives tell Y! Sports.
While the Jazz continue to shop Boozer, a high-ranking Bulls source remains unmoved in saying Chicago isn't in discussions about a deal.
For what it's worth, Kevin Pritchard and Tom Penn were both not in the gym or available for comment at this morning's Summer League practice.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
Update: For those of you who want it all, exactly... this from douglast and Storyteller...
Start with the amount of capspace, 7.7 million. Build a 4 year deal with maximum annual raises (8%).
That works out to be
7,700,000
8,316,000
8,932,000
9,548,000TOTAL = 34,496,000
This is where they can decide to make up to 17.5% of the total be bonus money instead of salary. Bonus money is paid now, but split evenly over contract life.
Assume 17.5% of 34,496,000 = bonus money total of 6,036,800.
prorated bonus amount is 1,509,200 per year. Cap values don't change at all - same as above. Cash outlay changes though, so Utah's cash outlay on this deal is now:
12,227,600
6,806,800
7,422,800
8,038,800So, they essentially have to spend an extra 4,527,600 in cash THIS year (plus taxes on their payroll). total monies are still 34,496,000, of which 28,459,200 is base, and the 6,036,800 is bonus
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Huzzah!
good news!
"The cake wasn’t the only lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 10, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hope it hurts Utah enough so they don't match
That was a strange decision by Boozer if he knows he is leaving Utah next summer. With the salary cap estimates for 2010, he will likely be forced to take a pay cut.
by gr8odensravens on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's out there that would pay him what he wants?
No one has cap room that would want him this summer. But, next summer if the main guys don’t opt out, he could wreak havoc with the broken dreams of the Knicks, Nets, or other teams.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will trade Boozer within 7 days & match.
just a gal who loves her Blazers - @rack_free on twitter
by 5Blazers5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need cap space back or it hurts just as much.
Who has space? PDX, OKC. Anyone else?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right, but Utah is gonna match now, worry about money later. The offer wasn't big enough to be a kill shot, which was probably KP's real intent.
Millsap is their guy and they have actually told Boozer that he’s not going to be pursued next year… If Millsap gets picked off, Boozer leaves and they are screwed.
Utah’s salary situation is dire. They just extended the greatly overrated Okur to the tune of about $11M per year for two more after this one, which combined with the even more greatly overrated Kirilenko and the actual Superstar Williams makes $43M+ just for those three guys. Millsap puts them at $51M for four. Yikes. That doesn’t sound like a championship core to me (or even a playoff core, truth be told).
Boozer is a 1 time hit of $12.65M or whatever, but they’ll suck it up and pay the tax man.
One thing they won’t due is dump Boozer for Rip Hamilton, who just signed a really nasty extension.
I think Utah will give away Boozer in an outright salary dump before the deadline. He may be your next Portland Trailblazer for the stretch run, ha ha.
Millsap is 100% definitely gonna get matched up by Utah though. I guarantee that.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...... DO ........
My kingdom for editability.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
except that with Williams, you’ve got a playoff core almost automatically.
But Utah will match, unless estate complications make it hard for them to come up with the signing bonus on short notice.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict that the Memphis Grizzlies will take on Boozer's contract. >.<
by conspirator5 on Jul 10, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they cant
unless they back out of the randolph deal. once that deal is done, they are sitting only about 5 under the cap
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice job Ben
I just saw Broussard on ESPN talking about this
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so in a week Utah will decide to keep Boozer and Millsap, biting the bullet, and we’ll have nothing.
Meh.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
or
1) 7 days to move boozer
2) 7 days to match, banking on being able to move boozer later.
I’d say it’s about 20% that they don’t match
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. Point being, we’re not going to get Millsap in all likelihood.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True... BUT
Utah has time to trade Boozer, they have until the trade deadline. The luxury tax issues aren’t applied until the season is over and the league looks at your cap numbers.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
What’s the point of going so low?
Is there any question Utah’s going to match a $9 mil per season offer? That’s a pretty reasonable offer for Milsap.
I’ll wait to hear about all the toxicity, but seems highly unlikely Utah wouldn’t match that. What are the Blazers going to do with the extra 1-2 mil per year that might’ve dissuaded Utah from matching?
On the positive side, though, despite all the rumors about the Jazz trying to move Booz, they have to move him for a partially guaranteed deal in order for it to do any good this season.
And if the Blazers actually get Milsap for that amount of money, it would be a very nice pick up.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the toxicity seems to be the signing bonus in addition to luxury tax
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 10, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To go higher
they would have had to renounce the Euros. They didn’t want to do that, since Utah will probably match.
They only did it for four years because they knew they were actually writing a contract for Utah, and they didn’t want the Jazz to have him locked up for five at a pretty decent price — the pain is this year, only.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best move we can make.
If Utah dosen’t want to accept what they are offered for Boozer than we will take their golden boy. All the pressure is on them.
WWOPD? What would Optimus Prime do?
by Blazer Ninja on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Except that's not something that Utah can't accept.
It doesn’t seem like we really, really want him. Maybe it’s just out there like, “Well we like him at this price, so there’s no point in not offering it.”
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years 34.496
would be the full 7.7 to start, which is all our space. no Euros renounced.
we really seem to be against 5 years deals right now. must be a reason i suppose
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
4 is the new black
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will match that… only 8.5ish per year.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i dont care how front loaded the bonus is, they just upped Okur for 20 million more. they’ll match, and have until June to cut salary and save tax dollars
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. I guess this is the best move possible, but it still isn’t that great for us.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
technically, they could cut salary by making a trade around draft day
it happened a couple of times this past draft day.
but yeah, trading deadline is much more likely
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct sir.
TD is far more likely, but it’s still weird to me that teams can trade last seasons cap numbers after the season has ended and before the new #’s are out.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think that Greg Miller has $6 million in spare change?
Giving Millsap $6 million today, $6.2 million over the course of the season, and then paying out $7.7 million in tax next summer? Matching costs Miller about $20 million in cash over the next 12 months.
The only way they match is if they can trade Boozer for salary relief. They’re not going to get it from Memphis (because of the impending Randolph trade). The only fear I have is that OKC agrees to a deal.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer for Collison and Krstic?
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't provide expiring deals though
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Atkins
Gives Utah huge salary relief since he’s only partially guaranteed for $760,000.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting to save $3 million of $12 million is not exactly what I would call huge relief
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Utah cuts Atkins
They save nearly $12 million in salary. They only have to pay him $760,000. Not $7.6 million – $0.76 million.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would OKC do it? They like to artificially lower their record to get young talent. A one year grab on Booze?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
winning is important for a young franchise, wins builds new fans
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OKC is still in the honeymoon period with OKC. They have a fwe more years when losing will be accepted I think.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
They’ve got $10 million in cap room just sitting there. Let Boozer play for a year and let him walk. They’ll be much improved with him. You have to start winning sometime….
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
does a move for Boozer fit the Buford-Pritchard-Presti mold of building? I’d argue that it doesn’t.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One year rental to boost your win total
Yeah, it doesn’t fit completely, which gives me hope that OKC won’t do it. But I’m still scared that they might.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
No reason to boost your win total for one year when the rest of your team is young. They sell out every game anyway – it’s just cutting into the bottom line and worsening the draft pick for no reason. You would have to feel very strongly about Booz’s effect improving the younger guys, and Booz has never been known as a great locker room guy. Wouldn’t make any sense for OKC.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
realisticly it's not against that method either, it basically keeping the capspace for next year and getting a big talent for a year
it would be good for boozer becuase he good focus on building good numbers to get a bigger contract
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus they get a 2010 expiring contract
maybe they could flip that for a player they really want
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would OKC give up all their cap space for Boozer, after not going with Chandler?
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You give me a choice between Boozer and Chandler
I’ll take Carlos 999 times out of a thousand.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. I’d take Chandler every day of the week. Boozer doesn’t play defense, messes with team chemistry, and is hurt a lot.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking from OKC perspective.
They have Krstic at center, shooting around the perimeter. They need a low post threat.
And Chandler’s been as much a health problem as Boozer recently.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries being equal, I think Chandler does more to win games than Boozer.
But it’s a moot point. Chandler won’t be a “Thunder,” Boozer might be.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is incorrect. They are gonna give away Boozer at the trade deadline...
The only way they match is if they can trade Boozer for salary relief.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will match, anyway
Why should we help them by locking him up at a reasonable price for five years?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray!
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
more like the white sparkly glove Michael Jackson used to wear has been thrown down
That’s nothing against MJ. This just doesn’t seem that toxic.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a Jason Quick word
it’s still enough to push Utah to want to do something to get rid of Boozer
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this move, though Utah will very likely match
To clarify, has Millsap actually signed our offer sheet?
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
clarification
Millsap has to sign our offer sheet for it to become an official offer, which will become a binding contract at some point, either with Portland or Utah depending on if they match.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(so the answer is yes)
the offer sheet is signed. It is deemed accepted automatically if not matched or rescinded.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't say
though it does say the Jazz will be presented with the offer Saturday, which seems to imply he has
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they're talking about an offer sheet
it’s been signed. you can’t have more than one at a time, so the player has to sign on.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Utah matches then Blazers should go after Boozer
Boozer (when healthy) is a better player than Millsap (though quite costly in comparison), and he is in the final year of his contract where Blazers can either trade him at the deadline for someone they want or come to an agreement with him for the future.
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trout for Boozer?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will want more than Trout.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they won't get it.
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
by pualo on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could get Boozer for FREE at the trade deadline, I think.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not sooner
But I don’t want him.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...offer a contract to Lee next
If nothing is going your way because teams have blackballed you, might as well make other teams hurt too!
by gr8odensravens on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If the Blazers get Lee that will be a tremendous addition to the team
From a Wins Produced and WP48 perspective, here are the numbers for 2008-09:
Paul Millsap = 9.0 wins produced with a WP48 of 0.189 (i.e. he is 0.189 times more productive than an average power forward)
David Lee = 16.4 wins produced with a WP48 of 0.280
Guess who I prefer :-)
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WoW overrates Lee due to a huge emphasis on defensive rebounding. It’s a really poor stat in a lot of ways.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you ever make an argument that doesn't rely on WP48?
I like your posts and I think WP48 is a useful stat, but its not the only advanced metric out there (or the best one) and doesn’t tell the whole story.
Millsap, for instance, is a much better defender than Lee.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I think Millsap's a good defender but not much better than Lee.
I think Lee’s defense is better than the reputations. Keep in mind how sucktastic his interior mates have been defensively over the past few seasons. Lee’s no Garnett, but he’s pretty good man defender, particularly against the face up PF types. He’s not great in the post but he’s not bad. Lee’s problem is that he’s not a big PF, but he’s been forced to play the best/biggest post guys including hulking Cs since NYK has no beef in the middle.
by howlingfantods on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember Roy’s gamewinner against NY? That was due to Lee’s laughably bad attempt at help defense.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy WHAT!!!!!!
Did you just trash a guy for using advanced stats? Someone bring jsnake back. Where has he gone?
I get what you’re saying, though.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't trash him
I suggested he look at more than 1 of them.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suggest, trash, eh... you're right.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jksnake99 let's not revisit the old debate we had over WP48 vs other metrics
Yes I use WP48 exclusively because it is the most accurate metric freely available. If you point me to a metric which is better than WP48 I’ll gladly use it provided the metric is rooted in science. We have already discussed before as to why PER is not accurate due to two main reasons, first the PER model pre-defines performance measures and fits the numbers to meet perception and secondly it does not penalize inefficient shooting.
Also, I believe that just like in baseball, numbers do tell us a lot about a players productivity and I do not see any harm in bringing that objectivity into a forum which predominantly discusses players subjectively.
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I'm getting tired of these WP48-ers
people need to take more statistics courses before they start being partisan towards one.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are in complete agreement about the usefulness of stats
However, in basketball there is a lot more disagreement among the advanced metrics. I understand and respect your view on PER and won’t go back into that debate.
I would note that Kevin Pelton talked about Millsap and Lee here and cited a number of stats, including Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP)— which suggests that Lee was worth more wins than Millsap last year but that Millsap produced more on a per-minute basis. Pelton uses that and other stats to argue that the players are of approximately equal value, which differs from the WP48 conclusion. Pelton then uses qualatative obersvations about defense (since even the state of the art defensive stats are still not ideal) to argue that Millsap is a slightly more valuable player.
The point here is not that Pelton is right and Berri is wrong (though I agree more with Pelton), but that WP48 is not the be-all end-all, and with basketball we are much more likely to run into a situation where two advanced metrics created by respected ABPR folks disagree with each other than in baseball. Thus, relying solely on one metric can lead us to wrongly think that a debate about 2 players is an open and shut case.
I have no problem whatsoever with you bringing WP48 into the discussion— I think you definitely add to the debate. I do take issue when you use it exclusively when other stats, like WARP, TS%, Rebound Rate, Offensive and Defensive rating, Win Shares, etc (much of that information is easily accessed on basketball-reference.com and basketballprospectus.com) tell a different story.
Sorry if I came off as rude. Again, I have no problem with you or your use of WP48— I just think it led you to a wrong conclusion here.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have come around to adjusted +/-
as my single favorite stat. After reading up on its methodology, I think it is sound, for the most part. I also like that it includes standard errors, as a reminder that there may not be enough evidence to discriminate between to players.
Here’s Millsaps
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2008-2009&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC&team=UTA
I also like net PER form 82games.com as long as the player in question consistently guards his own position.
by PoliSam on Jul 10, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really
So kirilenko is Utah’s MVP?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s a good player.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? okay, well let's assume you're right
you still can’t compare people like that.
if the argument is Millsap > Lee beacuse his +/- is better, then you end up saying stupid things like
Kirilenko>Millsap and
Rydy > Roy
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Rudy>Roy
which is less stupid than Rydy>Roy but still stupid
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think everyone will agree
that taking the stats without watching the basketball played to produce those stats makes for an incomplete picture
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
by jonestr on Jul 10, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that stat because it shows that Batum is good.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything that makes me feel better about a Blazer is a plus.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can buy that
jksnake99, your argument was well thought out and presented. It has motivated me to take a look at WARP, and I’ll do so at the earliest (the other stats you site are not that comprehensive as I know they are already a part of WP48, and I know Win Shares is very similar to WP48 but puts a premium on points scored).
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the mindset that is currently negotiating with Brandon's agent.
This ‘scientific’ attitude to sports is why this team is angering Roy and taking any emotion out of the negotiations. That’s all well and good when buying a car, but not here. What about something as simple as the good ol’ fashioned eye ball test??? And look where it’s getting us. There are so many things that a guy brings other than what WP48, Efficiency, or any other metric would be able to measure, quantify, and score. If a guy is playing help defense, steps in the lane to help as a player drives, and simply alters a shot? How does that get counted? It’s great defense, but doesn’t help their rating. How about a guy who busts his hump to dive for a loose ball heading out of bounds?? There are things that numbers simply cannot quantify. How do you measure ‘leadership’ and ‘mentoring’??? The metrics are fine, to a certain degree, but this is basketball, not a controlled lab experiment. I’ve got a new one, how about the MET (MY Eyeball Test)?!?!?!
by oregon_fan on Jul 11, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard David Lee once made a good defensive play
but there wasn’t enough evidence to bring the case to court.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Marvin Williams
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
by jlarose78 on Jul 10, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty nice for us!
Milsap is a serious baller.
by JasonT on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopes
I hope this isn’t a move to force Utah’s hand in the Boozer deal. We don’t need to give up Bayless for Heinrich! Millsap will fill a needed void at PF and allow us to trade other assets for a defensive stopper & scorer at the 3, hopefully Gerald Wallace or Shane Battier
by blzrfan22 on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We won't be giving up Bayless for Hinrich
so don’t worry about that
by Illmatic88 on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your probably right
The only thing we could do worse is nickel & dime B Roy & LA… Oh wait, we already are?
by blzrfan22 on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent.
Please, Utah! Don’t match it! We’re begging you!!! We’ll even give you one of our 2,546 2nd round picks we have in 2046 if you don’t match it!
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great offer
$10 million for Milsap was bit out of the ball park. I like this move. It’s up to Utah to match it, but I’m cool with this either way.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally
This is a move this summer I can get excited about.
by Avoozl on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
If Portland intends to move Millsap then in 90+ days for Hinrich straight up if Utah does not match or tries to do a 3-way trade.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it
But it does give us an asset to move if we choose to later. But they only offer him if they plan to keep him, or are at laest OPEN to keeping him.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moot
Utah will wait the full 7 days, then match
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that ain't the endgame
they still will be looking to offload Boozer and we are still in a unique position to help them do that
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, this forces the Booz move
and they’ll want a three team deal using our space, which means, hey, we get to trade Booz if they match. That’s the smartness of this deal.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they cant match right?
thats why they want to trade Boozer-
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course they can match
even if they don’t move boozer before then
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they can, but without a deal for Boozer in place, it's dangerous for them
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a risk
but one they would be fools not to take. Moving an expiring 20/10 guy at the deadline coming up on summer 2010 should be easy money
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the risk is if they keep both Boozer and Millsap
and Carlos gets seriously hurt. Then they’re stuck with both of their salaries
and Boozer hasn’t been the picture of health, lately
I’m really surprised how Blazersedge has rallied around the “the Bayless cannot be traded!” rally cry after so many Bedgers have been “down” on Jerryd for the last 9 months. Simply amazing. I like JB’s potential but I think for the Blazers to advance in the playoffs for the next 2-3 years the Hinrich-Blake PG combination is the way to go. KP can always go out and find another young PG to “groom” while those two are getting it done
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't see any "Bayless can't be traded" talk today on BE
I say a lot of “Bayless and all our capspace for Kirk is too much”. which i agree with
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBEC would be an asset
whether healthy or hurt for trade purposes… or am I misunderstanding when his magic contract expires
by Oggbog on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but be way over the cap and get taxed right?
if they dont move Boozer
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moving boozer will be easy to do
if not now, at the deadline there will be teams lining up to take a 12.7 million expiring contract for a guy who can actually produce.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they can move him after the season's over right?
As long as it’s before the next FA period opens?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
boozer’s deal will be expired at season’s end, so he can’t be traded. they could move AK47 though (in theory)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, one of the ESPN talking heads laughed about trying to trade AK. They said Utah would have to kiss the Knicks 2010 pick goodbye for someone to take that deal.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trading AK47 now, no way
but in June, he will have only 1 year left on his deal (the 10-11 season). It MIGHT be a bit easier to move him then.
obviously that would be their last ditch plan to try and shed salary before paying the 09-10 luxury tax, but they have several other ways to do it before then.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
refresh this post and check the math please regarding luxury tax etc.
by Ben. on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So all contracts not expiring can be moved in this fashion?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can match
There is always that option. It would just cause them to pay about 20 mil in luxury taxes with the roster like that. The luxury tax is calculated at the end of the season, so they will most likely match and then try to dump boozer for cap savings in order to get close to or under the luxury tax level.
by KitIsh on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's only one place to dump Boozer at the deadline.
OKC. Memphis isn’t going to take anymore salary if Iverson is signed.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or us, by proxy through another team.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is obviously good.
I could see them saying “screw it” and keeping both.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that franchise
they are tight…not free spenders
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter what.
I think this is the right move for the Blazers. I like it.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it definitely gets the ball rollin
we needed something to happen
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
KP needs to make a big splash to take everyone’s minds off Brandon Roy’s “unhappiness”
Good luck with that golden aura
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do as well. It’s just that the upside could be limited to screwing Utah. Of course, there are worse things.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screwing Utah is always a good move in my book.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
even my friends who live in Utah hate the Jazz
they call it ew-tah as in yucky tah
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute.
Just cause we hate the Jazz, doesn’t mean Jazz fans don’t love them.
They love their Jazz as much as we love our Blazers. Up until last year when it looked like they might not make the playoffs, they were one of the loudest, and most sold out arenas in the NBA.
by 3pointer on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they were one of the loudest, and most sold out arenas in the N
Obnoxious and whiney are the words that come to mind…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Sacramento
heck, even trading him to an over-cap team for a 10 million dollar player will save them over 5 million in salary plus taxes.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see what Sacramento has to offer
that’s appealing to Utah. Maybe $6 million in savings but they’d have to probably also send non-expiring deals. Doesn’t fit into Utah’s ‘needs’.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know.
Not gonna get my hopes up either way.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see it as supremely unlikely that Utah doesn’t match.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah in all likelyhood Utah matches
There is always a chance they don’t, but it’s pretty small. Then we’re back to square one.
by KitIsh on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no no no
we create a buyer for our cap space.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"so you're saying there's a chance"
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
TOXIC?
The offer includes a hefty signing bonus that will make it difficult for Utah to match.
That’s the TOXIC part I think, for a franchise (UTAH) run by people in the auto industry…there’s no cash. I don’t think it’s the contract term or amount that’s tough to match, but the toxic part of the offer sheet.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
I think the real part of the toxicity is whether or not Greg Miller has 6 million right after paying the luxury tax to fork over to Millsap. He may simply just not have the liquidity of funds possible to match this offer.
by mballer225 on Jul 10, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally some progress
I like how KP is forcing Utahs hand-not a HUGE pritchslapping but definitely more than a love tap!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes we should remind everyone of this
DONT GET YOU HOPES UP
REMEMBER WHAT NATE SAID-IT AINT A DONE DEAL UNTIL ITS SIGNED!!!!!!!!!!!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice cornering move KP
So it seems like KP has put the Jazz in a corner where they have to make the trade with Chicago to dump Boozer that will likely net the Blazers Kirk Hinrich, or else give up on that and allow Portland to sign Millsap. Nice work management boys. If this is what you’ve been up to then I take back any bad thoughts I’ve had
< /war >
by Diesel10 on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
After playing footsie with Utah
only to lose any shot at Bass while waiting for the proposed Chicago/Boozer trade fall through, this was the best bullet KP had left in his gun… If nothing else, this forces the Jazz to DO something…perhaps in our favor
This makes either Przy less necessary and perhaps opens up the possibility of a trade with Houston for Battier…still leaving us chips to trade for a starting PG.
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
by raggmopp on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bass got signed by Orlando
I don’t think we could’ve gotten him, he wants at least a chance of an expanded role, which Orlando can give him
Call Brandon Roy by his real nicknames: The Natural and Roybot. Lets put an end to "B-Roy"
by #7TheNatural on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You can't have too many bigs." —Joel Przybilla, 2009
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forget he also said
“Good game motherZacher”
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see all of these "after Millsap arrives we can trade Przybilla away" types
be locked in a cage match with Joel for about ten minutes
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be cool! I bet Dave would interview JP on the spot and I'd be right there to hear the interview
I love JP. I’m fine if we keep him, but if KP feels like he’s going to opt out and leave town anyway… I’m for getting value for value and for not losing assets without compensation.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if KP feels like he’s going to opt out and leave town
then he should offer Przy an extension right after he gets done with Brandon and LMA
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 11, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and his agent tells you it will be $10M/year for 4 years
otherwise my client wants to test the waters. Bargnani got $10M. My client thinks that that sets the market for him. Okur just got$10M+/year (on a shorter deal), so maybe we’ll consider a 3 year deal at 10 per… KP?? Are you on the phone to Houston while I’m still in the room??
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote a long repsonse below
that explains why I don’t think that this will be the case with Joel. You’re welcome to read it and respond down there
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 11, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick Is On The Radio
Lamenting about Brandon Roy and how bad KP is. CRY ME A RIVER.
I swear, Jason Quick is the drama queen of Portland.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no...he is basing it on Brandon's interview today
it really did NOT sound good. Not that it won’t work out eventually, but I think having Brandon Roy in the fold has hurt us in recruiting.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick is underwhelming
His writing is superb, but his analysis is lacking.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
Great writer, poor judgment, high drama
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick Is Pouring It On
My God, this guy is indeed a drama queen.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
canzano is helping him out
by mis-quoting roy and taking what he says out of context
from twitter
“Brandon Roy says its “50-50” that he stays with the Blazers. Tune in BFT on 95.5 FM"
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely did not say that
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
what roy said was it’s 50-50 how he feels from day to day about the contract negotiations. i was about to swear at canzano a bunch but gave up halfway through, i ran out of swear words.
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call up his show and complain!
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canzano is pathetic.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's HORRIBLE
Another reason to hate Canzano. TOTALLY a misquote.
unconscionable given that the stuff Brandon ACTUALLY said was interesting enough
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only a lie if you're smart enough to know it is.
Otherwise, it’s a mistake. Canzano is a walking, talking mistake.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good...
It’s about time we got something done… Even if Utah matches it’s highly unlikely that they will find someone to take Boozer until closer to the deadline. And if they can’t then Utah will be massively over the tax.
If that scenario works out, either way we win out. Either we get our man or we screw up the Jazz’s cap space and budget til next year
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
If Milsap comes over does that mean Pryzbilla is gone?
How else does MIllsap get enough playing time?
I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley
by Earl on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So is Al Jefferson.
Chuck Hayes is actually shorter, same with Jason Maxiell, Al Horford, Reggie Evans, Ben Wallace, Etc.
Height is not a problem.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
length > strength
I joke about this occasionally but it’s true to a certain extend. You do want bangers, but if a 6’6 banger is going up against a 6’10 banger with equal bulk, heart and skills, the taller player is going to get over. Sometimes, a “low center of gravity” can help a player hold his position in the paint, but it’s not as importantt as those few extra inches of length.
(As as11osu likes to say, it’s not so much head height as it is wing-span, and “the more the better” obviously. If you’ve got a tall skinny guy with T-Rex arms, chances are he’s gona get whupped by the shorter/stouter pterodactyl, especially if both players have equal hops.)
The L*kers are “the” target and they’ve got a long frontline, especially when Bynum and Odom are “bracketing” Gasol. KP/Nate have to look at L*A’s potential tall frontcourt tandem and ask themselves “who have we got that can match-up with those guys?” (Obviously you can’t play LMA-Greg-Przy together, and Frye/Outlaw weren’t the answer, either.) So, first they looked at Hedo at now they’ve taken a stab at Millsap. I think they’re barking up the right tree and hopefully they will be able to acquire a better “banger” to play those 4/3 minutes that Outlaw has been getting
BTW, Cunningham may eventually be able to fill this role as well, depending on his development and desire
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 12, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably.
No championship team in the past five years ( Probably longer but I didn’t look that far) has had a primary front court rotation of more than three players.
Joel would get moved. There’s a good chance he’s gone in two years anyway so there’s no sense in keeping him. I can’t imagine anyone signing a 32 year old, injury prone center to a long term deal when you already have three borderline all-stars under the age of 26. Not going to happen.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I had to create a team of my favorite NBAers, Paul Millsap is in the top ten.
Sad that he won’t be a Blazer.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what True Blue Jazz has to say about all of this...
The Zer’s are Desperate
Written by The Agreement
Thursday, 09 July 2009 12:02
pmansap
I’m sure a lot of you have heard the news this morning that reportedly the Zer’s plan to offer Millsap a “toxic” offer that will squash any chance the Jazz will have at resigning him for a fair amount. Since we all know that Zer fans spend most of their day surfing the web looking for blogs that say anything negative about their favorite team (while of course they are winning anyway), like flies searching for…(well you know), I expect that this post may get some negative publicity, that is if they still aren’t embarrassed about that little first round fiasco with the Rockette’s a couple of months ago.
Paul isn’t going anywhere, that is of course unless the Zer’s are willing to cough up over ten or eleven mill for a backup PF. Paul knows that Boozer is on his way out, and that the starting PF position is his in Utah if he stays. He will use the Zer’s to leverage the deal he wants, which will force the Jazz to match. Of course he is going to talk sweet to Portland management…he wants an offer sheet! The sad thing for Zer fans is they are about to be burned by another high profile FA. Why would Millsap want to go to Portland so that he can back-up Aldridge? The only reason I can think of is around $12,000,000. Portland is going to have the same issue the Jazz have now over the next couple of seasons as their young guys grow out of their rookie deals and want to get paid. If they are short-sighted enough to sign Paul to a $12,000,000 deal, they can have him, because it will only help the Jazz in the end.
Can you imagine the Blazers losing two or three key pieces because a big chunk of their money is tied up in their backup PF? Ridiculous…
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does he have to keep calling us the Zer's
seriously?
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the Jazz.
Say what you want about other teams, but I really hate the Jazz.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate them too
Along with the L*kers and spurs
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By L*kers are you rferring to the 2009 NBA Champs?
Zer’s, hmmmmm. Has a ring to it.
by Coop21 on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the history
of suckitude, referring to the Blazers as “Zer’s” is right at the top of the list.
Duct tape makes you smart.
by TTRocks on Jul 10, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a bastardized SuperSonic fan, I hold no ill-will toward Los Angeles or San Antonio fans.
The Utah Jazz, however, are a different story, particularly due to the heated rival between them and the Seattle SuperSonics during the mid-’90s.
Regarding the Los Angeles Lakers, Portland and Sacramento fans have the most disdain for the big-market powerhouse.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well no one outside of utah wants to watch the Zz
they put me to sleep
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What worries me a little bit....
Is that what this guy/person is saying seems to make some sense. I hope that KP is not being played for a sucker again.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his hand was forced by the bluff
now Utah’s hand is forced…let’s see what THEY do.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a lousy poker player...
Hopefully, KP is much better!
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does he make more sense?
where did he get 12m/yr from? he’s pulling things out of his ass and completely ignoring the (nearly necessary) trade of boozer.
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To those BEdgers who refer to our team as the Zers:
A Jazz fan has just used that term to denigrate the Blazers. He knows, as you apparently do not, that it is an insult to the team name. If you use it, therefore, you too will be insulting the Trail Blazers. I am sure you do not want to do that. The full name of the team is the Portland Trail Blazers. You may shorten it to Blazers. Do not shorten it further, unless you want to forever be known as a Jazz-loving troll.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 10, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Jazz
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But only from New Orleans
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PA not in the greatest health?
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
Quick is on the radio proclaiming that Allen’s health might be playing a factor in this negotiation process. What in the world is this tabloid crap?
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That actually is a long-standing talk. Allen cancelled quite important events last year on short notice.
It could be a reason to speed things up.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to some mod can delete this since there is of course no proof of a remission, but in 1983 Allen was diagnosed and successfully treated for Hodgkin’s lymphoma. A potentially fatal cancer.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously...
We all hope Allen’s not sick. I did notice in a film clip I saw of him not long ago that he looked gaunt like he’d lost some weight and not in a good way. Just didn’t look healthy to me.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be a reason to speed things up.
It could also be a reason for the 4 year offers to Roy and Millsap
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In terms of an absolutely reasonable if not low ball contract
4 years at $36 million for Paul Milsap is in that category. If Portland ends up with Milsap at that price, that is HUGE asset!
by JasonT on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And it's $16M/yr. to Utah, since they're over the tax line...
So if the Blazers paying $12M for a backup is moronic, what is paying $16M for a backup, Mr. Jz???
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and it's more than that in the first year
in a year where I bet the owner has already instructed them to cut costs since his car dealerships are all going under
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The owner died recently...
so he must be channeling instructions. Seriously, the new ownership may well be doing as you say.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not clear (serious question)
who is it that’s in the auto industry…new owners or old?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Smith's son
Smith’s son now controls all of Pop’s assets, including the Jazz.
by 3pointer on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes you wonder
who runs the empire (and ballclub) when Paul passes?
The Vulcans?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Allen's, Jody Patton, will likely take over operations of Vulcan Inc. in that case.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sir I need some backup with some Hinrich talk at the bottom of the page
Over n out.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You will like this
Its Hinrich Vs Bayless.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll make my way down there eventually.
I’m so worn out from that debate, however.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome observance that doesn't seem to be clearly stated elsewhere I've looked.
Unless you’re wrong?
by BlazerGal on Jul 10, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge asset?
8.5 mil a year for a backup that plays about 15 minutes a game? I am glad it’s not my money.
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huge trade asset.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huge trade assett who if he plays here, will play more than 15 mpg
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Paul Millsap would recieve an estimated 24 minutes per game as a banger off of the bench.
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
First 6 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: Paul Millsap
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
First 4 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: Paul Millsap
Next 2 Minutes
C: LaMarcus Aldridge
PF: Paul Millsap
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/8/942803/and-just-like-that-a-storm#17975973
LaMarcus Aldridge would take a dip in playing time, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGHARRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAUAAUUAUAH!
Micromanaging hypotheticals quarter by quarter and minute by minute is over the top.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Corner
If Utah would rather have Milsap then Boozer, then wouldn’t this corner them into taking Tim Tyrus, who Chicago would give up for Blake and Cap space. So even if Utah matches. Then our worst case scenario is that we lose blake and gain Captain Kirk. Best Case we end up with Milsap and lose no one.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL Quick
HE HAS NOT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT MILLSAP.
That says it all!!!
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or the phone apparently.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he doesn't even read the newspaper!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard that last time he read the oregonian
he read his own column and said “that guy is an *!” before he saw who wrote it
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
YESSSSS
Now lets hope there’s plenty more action coming.
by Free Bayless on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my question
. . . which I have not seen answered yet.
Does the offer sheet to Millsap foreclose making a three-way trade with Utah and another team?
In other words, under the CBA could Utah orchestrate a trade for Boozer in the next few days that would bring a player to Portland (e.g., Hinrich, Prince) and then match Portland’s offer for Millsap?
I think that could work, but not sure. Would it create cap problems for Utah?
by xman47 on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i think that's what we're shooting for
they’re seeing it as either we get millsap, or we force a 3-way trade (with chicago, despite all their denials)…
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally allowed
only thing not allowed is a trade of MILLSAP to Portland after we sign him to an offer sheet and Utah matches. Other three ways work fine
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or someone else
I don’t see why everyone seems to think Chicago is the only possible third party.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
our capspace is locked up
until Utah matches, so any deal we make has to under the 125% rules that apply to over the cap teams.
We could of course reach an agreement in principal for a trade requring cap space, then execute it once Utah matches our offer sheet
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't even do that
since it would have to be conditional on Utah matching.
otherwise we’d be a renegger, and no one wnats to do that…well, no one not named Hedo
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what i meant was
we could reach a handshake deal with Utah and a 3rd team for a deal that requires us using our capspace. Then Utah matches Millsap, then Utah/Port/3rd team execute the handshake deal.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
it looks like that ugly dude is finally reaping what he sewed a few years back when he screwed the cavs.
Chili Davis - the closest thing the MLB got to a real life Pedro Cerrano.
by NW angels Fan on Jul 10, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point
Unless Utah bites the Cap bullet(which they won’t) and keep both. This is a win either way for us now.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What is the logic for not offering Millsap the max we could have offered him?
Given that Utah was likely to match anyway. Or, is Blazer brass actually figuring this offer is “toxic” enough that Utah won’t match?
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing
I guess with all the players we have to re-sign soon, they didn’t want to push all their chips in now.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it WAS the Max
guess we didn’t want to renounce Euros.
It’s the BEGINNING of the contract that makes it toxic, not the end. The fifth year wouldn’t have affected the deal
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, we could have gone 5 years and another 10.164 on the final year
and some of that 10.164 would have been rolled into the up-front bonus money, so it would have made the overal deal longer, more money, and required an extra 1.7 million in cash up front bonus money.
so it is an interesting question. perhaps it’s because we WANT them to match.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anybody done the math?
If utah matches and then trades boozer, does this contract rate for Millsap get them under the cap? Maybe it’s an offer low enough that they get under the cap if they sign him and trade Boozer to get us what we wabnt, but high enough that they can’t afford to keep both.
If so, BRILLIANT!
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not under the cap
but if they match for Millsap and trade Boozer for nothing, it puts them just a hair under the tax threshold.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right...misspoke.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that case,
I think this really was deliberate and meant to make Utah amenable to helping us.
as opposed to a “poison pill,” like the Vikings sprung on the Seahawks, which is what the word “toxic” implied to some.
maybe a change in strategy? and a much more “user friendly” one at that.
See, you don’t have to SLAP people to win…sometimes we ALL win!
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i came up with same numbers
boozer out, nothing in puts them like 100k under.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the more I hear, the more I think
we were really harder on the mgmt team than we should have been. blind trust is bad, but unswerving unbelief is worse
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever read Shogun or Tai Pan
Everything looks bad and the……. bam!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO KIDDING
If they look stupid to me, it is much more likely that I don’t understand what is going on than that they are stupid.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Douglas T is right... KP has no real intention of landing Millsap, he just wants to incapacitate Utah vis a vis the cap for the next several years...
perhaps it’s because we WANT them to match.
I don’t believe KP has found Jesus with regards to low post play AT ALL. It’s been two fricking years of Channing Frye and Travis Outlaw out of position, for chrissakes… NOW he’s gonna invest real money in a low post banger?!?!?!? I seriously doubt it.
He’s pritchslapping Utah here. Verb used advisedly and correctly. When you see Storyteller’s new salary chart for Utah, you will understand… They are going to be in SERIOUS cap trouble.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$10 million for Milsap?
No I don’t think so. $8.5 is very reasonable to both sides, KP and Penn is putting in a giant signing bonus to deter the Jazz. We’ll see if it works for not. It was always a cash flow problem with the Jazz, not a salary problem.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still feel like
This is a ploy to force Utah into taking Tim Thomas rather than Tyrus, then rather than giving up Rex we trade Blake for Captain Kirk.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
very plausible
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what sux about that
is that Portland is fightin to do the one thing I DON’T want them to do…giving up Blake. sigh Glad I’m not the GM.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and currently most hated person on BE
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kp
i still love him, but he’s not that popular right now
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this moment, several people are being way too hard on Kevin Pritchard.
Yes, Pritchard was an idiot for targeting a declining, overpriced Hedo Turkoglu — who’d’ve been an awkward fit on the Portland Trail Blazers both offensively and defensively — however, the problems surrounding Brandon Roy’s contract extension are almost assuredly the fault of Paul Allen.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call
That could well be the case
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not the max?
1. We’ve offered the max we could (for four years) without renouncing our Euros. You don’t want to renounce assets that might be of value when Utah is probably going to match anyway.
2. We could have added a fifth year which would have increased the amount, but it made little difference. The decider here for Utah is the cash flow problem of getting hit with a big signing bonus on short notice, and having to pay huge luxury tax next year. A fifth year at $10 million is no big deal for them, the problem is the next 12 months.
3. Most analysts would think a five year deal for Millsap at this kind of money is probably a good deal, if he is your starter (as he will be for Utah). Why let them lock up a possible all-star PF for a fifth year at a decent cost? What is he likely to get on the open market as UFA in that fifth year (at the age of 28, right in his prime)? Probably more. That fifth year would probably be more beneficial to the team than the player, barring significant injury. Since Utah is likely to match no matter what we do, why do them the favor of adding the fifth year?
Utah is going to match, anyway. So the key here is to structure the deal to be painful right now rather than beneficial for them. Painful enough that they will be much more strongly motivated to dump Boozer in a straight salary dump.
The more teams that are looking to do a salary dump, the more teams will be looking to Portland to facilitate it.
I don’t care if we are part of the Boozer salary dump. If OKC or Sacramento facilitate something for Utah, that is one more team that can’t help with the next salary dump that comes along. Because another one will come along.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
nice work, rec
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a related note
our capspace could climb as high as just over 9 million once the season starts, which is the amount it would be if we just add the mimimum number of players (3) to our roster, and all 3 get the rookie minimum. This is because the Claver/Koponen/Freeland cap holds go away at that point.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
So we will actually have more cap flexibility if we wait until after the first game of the season for a big trade. And if we wait a couple of months, we’ll know more about Martell’s health and development, and the progression of Greg, Jerryd, and Nic — all of which could impact what kind of player we want.
The greatest problem with waiting is that Bedge will be toxic for all that time, even while our current roster is tearing up the league.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point of diminishing returns
Let’s say that Utah deals Boozer to OKC (as unlikely as it seems, right now) and KP is the “last GM standing” with any amount of appreciable cap space. Thats an enviable position to be in, heading into the season and next February, right? Probably so, but the danger grows as the trading deadline looms, because as much as there should be teams out there who would like to make an unbalanced trade, KP’s rival GMs (who all hate his guts, if you believe AWoj) will try to “low-ball” the Blazer’s GM, knowing that his “window” of opportunity to make a great deal with his 9 mil$ cap-space is nearing an end.
The other reason for “not waiting” is something we know about KP from his past behavior; he tends to like to construct his roster before training camp starts and not make significant changes during the regular season. We all saw this first-hand at last February’s trading deadline, when KP had RLEC and an injured starting PG and chose not to make an offer for Hinrich (etc) because he didn’t want to disrupt his team’s focus/chemistry.
I realize that KP doesn’t want to be pressured into “making a move just for the sake of just making a move” but I think he’d rather “know” what his final roster is going to be heading into the season than “hope” the special fit will come later and then have to make an important roster change and force Nate to have to integrate a new player into the mix. Not that McMillian couldn’t handle that task (he’d probably welcome the new arrival, especially if it was a vet with playoff experience) but you can imagine how re-organizing the rotation and re-establishing “everyone’s roles” could affect a young team’s cohesiveness
It’s better to make these moves sooner than later, that’s what I’m saying. I still remember the Whitsitt era where Trader Bob tried to “shoe-horn” Detlef Schrempf and Rod Strickland into a good-but-not-great rotation and seeing it backfire on his coaching staff. KP should try to avoid this kind of mess, and I think he’s trying to
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 12, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
millsap offer is genius
Remember, the Jazz are owned by a family whose money comes from American car dealerships. The fact Utah would have to pay double this next year for Millsap since they are in luxury tax territory already makes it very difficult for them to do.
We either get Millsap, make Utah pay huge financial penalties, or force Utah to find a taker for Boozer and get nothing in return.
Also keep in mind there aren’t many ways Utah can get rid of Boozer without taking salary back that doesn’t involve Portland.
This is a no-lose situation and Portland didn’t even renounce Freeland and Koponen. I love it.
by McCoyBoyz on Jul 10, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs