Blazers Offer Paul Millsap
by Ben. on Jul 10, 2009 3:23 PM PDT
in News
718 comments
Chris Broussard of ESPN writes...
The Portland Trail Blazers have offered Utah Jazz free agent Paul Millsap a four-year contract worth between $32 million and $36 million, according to league sources.
The offer includes a hefty signing bonus that will make it difficult for Utah to match. The Jazz will be presented with the offer Saturday and have seven days to match because Millsap is a restricted free agent.
---------------------
Update (5:59PM): Jason Quick of The Oregonian has confirmation from Kevin Pritchard and writes...
The Trail Blazers have tendered an offer sheet to Utah power forward Paul Millsap, general manager Kevin Pritchard said Friday, and Millsap's agent said the player plans to sign the offer sheet tonight.
---------------------
This coincides with the "toxic offer" Jason Quick first reported earlier this week. A large signing bonus and/or front-loaded salaries were seen as the two most likely methods for applying the most pressure to a Jazz franchise already well over the salary cap.
This offer, however, comes in quite a bit below what John Hollinger wrote would be the maximum Portland could offer Millsap: 5 years, $45 million. It would seem upon first glance that the Jazz would prefer paying the younger Millsap roughly $9 million a year compared to Boozer's $12 million plus salary for next season and could possibly afford both next season.
If the Blazers have included the maximum allowable signing bonus of 17.5% of the total salary, the Jazz could be looking at an up-front signing bonus payment of as much as $6.3 million dollars to Millsap. Combined with the first year's salary (which would be charged double as paying Millsap would throw them into the luxury tax), the Jazz could be looking at a total outlay of more than $18 million dollars this year to match this offer, assuming they do not shed any other salary. Estimate provided by BE reader Kevin Scooter.
Storyteller confirms with similar figures...
Giving Millsap $6 million in a signing bonus, $6.2 million over the course of the season, and then paying out $7.7 million in luxury tax next summer... Matching costs Utah roughly $20 million in cash over the next 12 months.
In related news, Awoj tweeted this morning that...
The Utah Jazz are intensifying efforts today to trade Carlos Boozer, multiple league executives tell Y! Sports.
While the Jazz continue to shop Boozer, a high-ranking Bulls source remains unmoved in saying Chicago isn't in discussions about a deal.
For what it's worth, Kevin Pritchard and Tom Penn were both not in the gym or available for comment at this morning's Summer League practice.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
Update: For those of you who want it all, exactly... this from douglast and Storyteller...
Start with the amount of capspace, 7.7 million. Build a 4 year deal with maximum annual raises (8%).
That works out to be
7,700,000
8,316,000
8,932,000
9,548,000TOTAL = 34,496,000
This is where they can decide to make up to 17.5% of the total be bonus money instead of salary. Bonus money is paid now, but split evenly over contract life.
Assume 17.5% of 34,496,000 = bonus money total of 6,036,800.
prorated bonus amount is 1,509,200 per year. Cap values don't change at all - same as above. Cash outlay changes though, so Utah's cash outlay on this deal is now:
12,227,600
6,806,800
7,422,800
8,038,800So, they essentially have to spend an extra 4,527,600 in cash THIS year (plus taxes on their payroll). total monies are still 34,496,000, of which 28,459,200 is base, and the 6,036,800 is bonus
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Huzzah!
good news!
"The cake wasn’t the only lie..." -blazeraddict
by TheOdenator on Jul 10, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hope it hurts Utah enough so they don't match
That was a strange decision by Boozer if he knows he is leaving Utah next summer. With the salary cap estimates for 2010, he will likely be forced to take a pay cut.
by gr8odensravens on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's out there that would pay him what he wants?
No one has cap room that would want him this summer. But, next summer if the main guys don’t opt out, he could wreak havoc with the broken dreams of the Knicks, Nets, or other teams.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will trade Boozer within 7 days & match.
just a gal who loves her Blazers - @rack_free on twitter
by 5Blazers5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need cap space back or it hurts just as much.
Who has space? PDX, OKC. Anyone else?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right, but Utah is gonna match now, worry about money later. The offer wasn't big enough to be a kill shot, which was probably KP's real intent.
Millsap is their guy and they have actually told Boozer that he’s not going to be pursued next year… If Millsap gets picked off, Boozer leaves and they are screwed.
Utah’s salary situation is dire. They just extended the greatly overrated Okur to the tune of about $11M per year for two more after this one, which combined with the even more greatly overrated Kirilenko and the actual Superstar Williams makes $43M+ just for those three guys. Millsap puts them at $51M for four. Yikes. That doesn’t sound like a championship core to me (or even a playoff core, truth be told).
Boozer is a 1 time hit of $12.65M or whatever, but they’ll suck it up and pay the tax man.
One thing they won’t due is dump Boozer for Rip Hamilton, who just signed a really nasty extension.
I think Utah will give away Boozer in an outright salary dump before the deadline. He may be your next Portland Trailblazer for the stretch run, ha ha.
Millsap is 100% definitely gonna get matched up by Utah though. I guarantee that.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...... DO ........
My kingdom for editability.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
except that with Williams, you’ve got a playoff core almost automatically.
But Utah will match, unless estate complications make it hard for them to come up with the signing bonus on short notice.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict that the Memphis Grizzlies will take on Boozer's contract. >.<
by conspirator5 on Jul 10, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they cant
unless they back out of the randolph deal. once that deal is done, they are sitting only about 5 under the cap
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice job Ben
I just saw Broussard on ESPN talking about this
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so in a week Utah will decide to keep Boozer and Millsap, biting the bullet, and we’ll have nothing.
Meh.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
or
1) 7 days to move boozer
2) 7 days to match, banking on being able to move boozer later.
I’d say it’s about 20% that they don’t match
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. Point being, we’re not going to get Millsap in all likelihood.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True... BUT
Utah has time to trade Boozer, they have until the trade deadline. The luxury tax issues aren’t applied until the season is over and the league looks at your cap numbers.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
What’s the point of going so low?
Is there any question Utah’s going to match a $9 mil per season offer? That’s a pretty reasonable offer for Milsap.
I’ll wait to hear about all the toxicity, but seems highly unlikely Utah wouldn’t match that. What are the Blazers going to do with the extra 1-2 mil per year that might’ve dissuaded Utah from matching?
On the positive side, though, despite all the rumors about the Jazz trying to move Booz, they have to move him for a partially guaranteed deal in order for it to do any good this season.
And if the Blazers actually get Milsap for that amount of money, it would be a very nice pick up.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the toxicity seems to be the signing bonus in addition to luxury tax
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 10, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To go higher
they would have had to renounce the Euros. They didn’t want to do that, since Utah will probably match.
They only did it for four years because they knew they were actually writing a contract for Utah, and they didn’t want the Jazz to have him locked up for five at a pretty decent price — the pain is this year, only.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best move we can make.
If Utah dosen’t want to accept what they are offered for Boozer than we will take their golden boy. All the pressure is on them.
WWOPD? What would Optimus Prime do?
by Blazer Ninja on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Except that's not something that Utah can't accept.
It doesn’t seem like we really, really want him. Maybe it’s just out there like, “Well we like him at this price, so there’s no point in not offering it.”
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years 34.496
would be the full 7.7 to start, which is all our space. no Euros renounced.
we really seem to be against 5 years deals right now. must be a reason i suppose
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
4 is the new black
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will match that… only 8.5ish per year.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i dont care how front loaded the bonus is, they just upped Okur for 20 million more. they’ll match, and have until June to cut salary and save tax dollars
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. I guess this is the best move possible, but it still isn’t that great for us.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
technically, they could cut salary by making a trade around draft day
it happened a couple of times this past draft day.
but yeah, trading deadline is much more likely
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct sir.
TD is far more likely, but it’s still weird to me that teams can trade last seasons cap numbers after the season has ended and before the new #’s are out.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think that Greg Miller has $6 million in spare change?
Giving Millsap $6 million today, $6.2 million over the course of the season, and then paying out $7.7 million in tax next summer? Matching costs Miller about $20 million in cash over the next 12 months.
The only way they match is if they can trade Boozer for salary relief. They’re not going to get it from Memphis (because of the impending Randolph trade). The only fear I have is that OKC agrees to a deal.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer for Collison and Krstic?
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't provide expiring deals though
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Atkins
Gives Utah huge salary relief since he’s only partially guaranteed for $760,000.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting to save $3 million of $12 million is not exactly what I would call huge relief
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Utah cuts Atkins
They save nearly $12 million in salary. They only have to pay him $760,000. Not $7.6 million – $0.76 million.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would OKC do it? They like to artificially lower their record to get young talent. A one year grab on Booze?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
winning is important for a young franchise, wins builds new fans
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OKC is still in the honeymoon period with OKC. They have a fwe more years when losing will be accepted I think.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
They’ve got $10 million in cap room just sitting there. Let Boozer play for a year and let him walk. They’ll be much improved with him. You have to start winning sometime….
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
does a move for Boozer fit the Buford-Pritchard-Presti mold of building? I’d argue that it doesn’t.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One year rental to boost your win total
Yeah, it doesn’t fit completely, which gives me hope that OKC won’t do it. But I’m still scared that they might.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
No reason to boost your win total for one year when the rest of your team is young. They sell out every game anyway – it’s just cutting into the bottom line and worsening the draft pick for no reason. You would have to feel very strongly about Booz’s effect improving the younger guys, and Booz has never been known as a great locker room guy. Wouldn’t make any sense for OKC.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
realisticly it's not against that method either, it basically keeping the capspace for next year and getting a big talent for a year
it would be good for boozer becuase he good focus on building good numbers to get a bigger contract
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus they get a 2010 expiring contract
maybe they could flip that for a player they really want
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would OKC give up all their cap space for Boozer, after not going with Chandler?
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You give me a choice between Boozer and Chandler
I’ll take Carlos 999 times out of a thousand.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. I’d take Chandler every day of the week. Boozer doesn’t play defense, messes with team chemistry, and is hurt a lot.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking from OKC perspective.
They have Krstic at center, shooting around the perimeter. They need a low post threat.
And Chandler’s been as much a health problem as Boozer recently.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries being equal, I think Chandler does more to win games than Boozer.
But it’s a moot point. Chandler won’t be a “Thunder,” Boozer might be.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is incorrect. They are gonna give away Boozer at the trade deadline...
The only way they match is if they can trade Boozer for salary relief.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah will match, anyway
Why should we help them by locking him up at a reasonable price for five years?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray!
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
more like the white sparkly glove Michael Jackson used to wear has been thrown down
That’s nothing against MJ. This just doesn’t seem that toxic.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a Jason Quick word
it’s still enough to push Utah to want to do something to get rid of Boozer
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this move, though Utah will very likely match
To clarify, has Millsap actually signed our offer sheet?
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
clarification
Millsap has to sign our offer sheet for it to become an official offer, which will become a binding contract at some point, either with Portland or Utah depending on if they match.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(so the answer is yes)
the offer sheet is signed. It is deemed accepted automatically if not matched or rescinded.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't say
though it does say the Jazz will be presented with the offer Saturday, which seems to imply he has
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they're talking about an offer sheet
it’s been signed. you can’t have more than one at a time, so the player has to sign on.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Utah matches then Blazers should go after Boozer
Boozer (when healthy) is a better player than Millsap (though quite costly in comparison), and he is in the final year of his contract where Blazers can either trade him at the deadline for someone they want or come to an agreement with him for the future.
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trout for Boozer?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will want more than Trout.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they won't get it.
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
by pualo on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could get Boozer for FREE at the trade deadline, I think.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not sooner
But I don’t want him.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...offer a contract to Lee next
If nothing is going your way because teams have blackballed you, might as well make other teams hurt too!
by gr8odensravens on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If the Blazers get Lee that will be a tremendous addition to the team
From a Wins Produced and WP48 perspective, here are the numbers for 2008-09:
Paul Millsap = 9.0 wins produced with a WP48 of 0.189 (i.e. he is 0.189 times more productive than an average power forward)
David Lee = 16.4 wins produced with a WP48 of 0.280
Guess who I prefer :-)
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WoW overrates Lee due to a huge emphasis on defensive rebounding. It’s a really poor stat in a lot of ways.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you ever make an argument that doesn't rely on WP48?
I like your posts and I think WP48 is a useful stat, but its not the only advanced metric out there (or the best one) and doesn’t tell the whole story.
Millsap, for instance, is a much better defender than Lee.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I think Millsap's a good defender but not much better than Lee.
I think Lee’s defense is better than the reputations. Keep in mind how sucktastic his interior mates have been defensively over the past few seasons. Lee’s no Garnett, but he’s pretty good man defender, particularly against the face up PF types. He’s not great in the post but he’s not bad. Lee’s problem is that he’s not a big PF, but he’s been forced to play the best/biggest post guys including hulking Cs since NYK has no beef in the middle.
by howlingfantods on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember Roy’s gamewinner against NY? That was due to Lee’s laughably bad attempt at help defense.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy WHAT!!!!!!
Did you just trash a guy for using advanced stats? Someone bring jsnake back. Where has he gone?
I get what you’re saying, though.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't trash him
I suggested he look at more than 1 of them.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suggest, trash, eh... you're right.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jksnake99 let's not revisit the old debate we had over WP48 vs other metrics
Yes I use WP48 exclusively because it is the most accurate metric freely available. If you point me to a metric which is better than WP48 I’ll gladly use it provided the metric is rooted in science. We have already discussed before as to why PER is not accurate due to two main reasons, first the PER model pre-defines performance measures and fits the numbers to meet perception and secondly it does not penalize inefficient shooting.
Also, I believe that just like in baseball, numbers do tell us a lot about a players productivity and I do not see any harm in bringing that objectivity into a forum which predominantly discusses players subjectively.
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I'm getting tired of these WP48-ers
people need to take more statistics courses before they start being partisan towards one.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are in complete agreement about the usefulness of stats
However, in basketball there is a lot more disagreement among the advanced metrics. I understand and respect your view on PER and won’t go back into that debate.
I would note that Kevin Pelton talked about Millsap and Lee here and cited a number of stats, including Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP)— which suggests that Lee was worth more wins than Millsap last year but that Millsap produced more on a per-minute basis. Pelton uses that and other stats to argue that the players are of approximately equal value, which differs from the WP48 conclusion. Pelton then uses qualatative obersvations about defense (since even the state of the art defensive stats are still not ideal) to argue that Millsap is a slightly more valuable player.
The point here is not that Pelton is right and Berri is wrong (though I agree more with Pelton), but that WP48 is not the be-all end-all, and with basketball we are much more likely to run into a situation where two advanced metrics created by respected ABPR folks disagree with each other than in baseball. Thus, relying solely on one metric can lead us to wrongly think that a debate about 2 players is an open and shut case.
I have no problem whatsoever with you bringing WP48 into the discussion— I think you definitely add to the debate. I do take issue when you use it exclusively when other stats, like WARP, TS%, Rebound Rate, Offensive and Defensive rating, Win Shares, etc (much of that information is easily accessed on basketball-reference.com and basketballprospectus.com) tell a different story.
Sorry if I came off as rude. Again, I have no problem with you or your use of WP48— I just think it led you to a wrong conclusion here.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have come around to adjusted +/-
as my single favorite stat. After reading up on its methodology, I think it is sound, for the most part. I also like that it includes standard errors, as a reminder that there may not be enough evidence to discriminate between to players.
Here’s Millsaps
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2008-2009&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC&team=UTA
I also like net PER form 82games.com as long as the player in question consistently guards his own position.
by PoliSam on Jul 10, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really
So kirilenko is Utah’s MVP?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s a good player.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? okay, well let's assume you're right
you still can’t compare people like that.
if the argument is Millsap > Lee beacuse his +/- is better, then you end up saying stupid things like
Kirilenko>Millsap and
Rydy > Roy
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Rudy>Roy
which is less stupid than Rydy>Roy but still stupid
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think everyone will agree
that taking the stats without watching the basketball played to produce those stats makes for an incomplete picture
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
by jonestr on Jul 10, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that stat because it shows that Batum is good.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything that makes me feel better about a Blazer is a plus.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can buy that
jksnake99, your argument was well thought out and presented. It has motivated me to take a look at WARP, and I’ll do so at the earliest (the other stats you site are not that comprehensive as I know they are already a part of WP48, and I know Win Shares is very similar to WP48 but puts a premium on points scored).
by mmm! on Jul 10, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the mindset that is currently negotiating with Brandon's agent.
This ‘scientific’ attitude to sports is why this team is angering Roy and taking any emotion out of the negotiations. That’s all well and good when buying a car, but not here. What about something as simple as the good ol’ fashioned eye ball test??? And look where it’s getting us. There are so many things that a guy brings other than what WP48, Efficiency, or any other metric would be able to measure, quantify, and score. If a guy is playing help defense, steps in the lane to help as a player drives, and simply alters a shot? How does that get counted? It’s great defense, but doesn’t help their rating. How about a guy who busts his hump to dive for a loose ball heading out of bounds?? There are things that numbers simply cannot quantify. How do you measure ‘leadership’ and ‘mentoring’??? The metrics are fine, to a certain degree, but this is basketball, not a controlled lab experiment. I’ve got a new one, how about the MET (MY Eyeball Test)?!?!?!
by oregon_fan on Jul 11, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard David Lee once made a good defensive play
but there wasn’t enough evidence to bring the case to court.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Marvin Williams
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
by jlarose78 on Jul 10, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty nice for us!
Milsap is a serious baller.
by JasonT on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopes
I hope this isn’t a move to force Utah’s hand in the Boozer deal. We don’t need to give up Bayless for Heinrich! Millsap will fill a needed void at PF and allow us to trade other assets for a defensive stopper & scorer at the 3, hopefully Gerald Wallace or Shane Battier
by blzrfan22 on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We won't be giving up Bayless for Hinrich
so don’t worry about that
by Illmatic88 on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your probably right
The only thing we could do worse is nickel & dime B Roy & LA… Oh wait, we already are?
by blzrfan22 on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent.
Please, Utah! Don’t match it! We’re begging you!!! We’ll even give you one of our 2,546 2nd round picks we have in 2046 if you don’t match it!
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great offer
$10 million for Milsap was bit out of the ball park. I like this move. It’s up to Utah to match it, but I’m cool with this either way.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally
This is a move this summer I can get excited about.
by Avoozl on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
If Portland intends to move Millsap then in 90+ days for Hinrich straight up if Utah does not match or tries to do a 3-way trade.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it
But it does give us an asset to move if we choose to later. But they only offer him if they plan to keep him, or are at laest OPEN to keeping him.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moot
Utah will wait the full 7 days, then match
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that ain't the endgame
they still will be looking to offload Boozer and we are still in a unique position to help them do that
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, this forces the Booz move
and they’ll want a three team deal using our space, which means, hey, we get to trade Booz if they match. That’s the smartness of this deal.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they cant match right?
thats why they want to trade Boozer-
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course they can match
even if they don’t move boozer before then
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they can, but without a deal for Boozer in place, it's dangerous for them
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a risk
but one they would be fools not to take. Moving an expiring 20/10 guy at the deadline coming up on summer 2010 should be easy money
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the risk is if they keep both Boozer and Millsap
and Carlos gets seriously hurt. Then they’re stuck with both of their salaries
and Boozer hasn’t been the picture of health, lately
I’m really surprised how Blazersedge has rallied around the “the Bayless cannot be traded!” rally cry after so many Bedgers have been “down” on Jerryd for the last 9 months. Simply amazing. I like JB’s potential but I think for the Blazers to advance in the playoffs for the next 2-3 years the Hinrich-Blake PG combination is the way to go. KP can always go out and find another young PG to “groom” while those two are getting it done
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't see any "Bayless can't be traded" talk today on BE
I say a lot of “Bayless and all our capspace for Kirk is too much”. which i agree with
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBEC would be an asset
whether healthy or hurt for trade purposes… or am I misunderstanding when his magic contract expires
by Oggbog on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but be way over the cap and get taxed right?
if they dont move Boozer
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moving boozer will be easy to do
if not now, at the deadline there will be teams lining up to take a 12.7 million expiring contract for a guy who can actually produce.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they can move him after the season's over right?
As long as it’s before the next FA period opens?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
boozer’s deal will be expired at season’s end, so he can’t be traded. they could move AK47 though (in theory)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, one of the ESPN talking heads laughed about trying to trade AK. They said Utah would have to kiss the Knicks 2010 pick goodbye for someone to take that deal.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trading AK47 now, no way
but in June, he will have only 1 year left on his deal (the 10-11 season). It MIGHT be a bit easier to move him then.
obviously that would be their last ditch plan to try and shed salary before paying the 09-10 luxury tax, but they have several other ways to do it before then.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
refresh this post and check the math please regarding luxury tax etc.
by Ben. on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So all contracts not expiring can be moved in this fashion?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can match
There is always that option. It would just cause them to pay about 20 mil in luxury taxes with the roster like that. The luxury tax is calculated at the end of the season, so they will most likely match and then try to dump boozer for cap savings in order to get close to or under the luxury tax level.
by KitIsh on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's only one place to dump Boozer at the deadline.
OKC. Memphis isn’t going to take anymore salary if Iverson is signed.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or us, by proxy through another team.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is obviously good.
I could see them saying “screw it” and keeping both.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that franchise
they are tight…not free spenders
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter what.
I think this is the right move for the Blazers. I like it.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it definitely gets the ball rollin
we needed something to happen
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
KP needs to make a big splash to take everyone’s minds off Brandon Roy’s “unhappiness”
Good luck with that golden aura
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do as well. It’s just that the upside could be limited to screwing Utah. Of course, there are worse things.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screwing Utah is always a good move in my book.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
even my friends who live in Utah hate the Jazz
they call it ew-tah as in yucky tah
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute.
Just cause we hate the Jazz, doesn’t mean Jazz fans don’t love them.
They love their Jazz as much as we love our Blazers. Up until last year when it looked like they might not make the playoffs, they were one of the loudest, and most sold out arenas in the NBA.
by 3pointer on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they were one of the loudest, and most sold out arenas in the N
Obnoxious and whiney are the words that come to mind…
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Sacramento
heck, even trading him to an over-cap team for a 10 million dollar player will save them over 5 million in salary plus taxes.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see what Sacramento has to offer
that’s appealing to Utah. Maybe $6 million in savings but they’d have to probably also send non-expiring deals. Doesn’t fit into Utah’s ‘needs’.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know.
Not gonna get my hopes up either way.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see it as supremely unlikely that Utah doesn’t match.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah in all likelyhood Utah matches
There is always a chance they don’t, but it’s pretty small. Then we’re back to square one.
by KitIsh on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no no no
we create a buyer for our cap space.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"so you're saying there's a chance"
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
TOXIC?
The offer includes a hefty signing bonus that will make it difficult for Utah to match.
That’s the TOXIC part I think, for a franchise (UTAH) run by people in the auto industry…there’s no cash. I don’t think it’s the contract term or amount that’s tough to match, but the toxic part of the offer sheet.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
I think the real part of the toxicity is whether or not Greg Miller has 6 million right after paying the luxury tax to fork over to Millsap. He may simply just not have the liquidity of funds possible to match this offer.
by mballer225 on Jul 10, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally some progress
I like how KP is forcing Utahs hand-not a HUGE pritchslapping but definitely more than a love tap!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes we should remind everyone of this
DONT GET YOU HOPES UP
REMEMBER WHAT NATE SAID-IT AINT A DONE DEAL UNTIL ITS SIGNED!!!!!!!!!!!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice cornering move KP
So it seems like KP has put the Jazz in a corner where they have to make the trade with Chicago to dump Boozer that will likely net the Blazers Kirk Hinrich, or else give up on that and allow Portland to sign Millsap. Nice work management boys. If this is what you’ve been up to then I take back any bad thoughts I’ve had
< /war >
by Diesel10 on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
After playing footsie with Utah
only to lose any shot at Bass while waiting for the proposed Chicago/Boozer trade fall through, this was the best bullet KP had left in his gun… If nothing else, this forces the Jazz to DO something…perhaps in our favor
This makes either Przy less necessary and perhaps opens up the possibility of a trade with Houston for Battier…still leaving us chips to trade for a starting PG.
Are you a Mexi-CAN or a Mexi-CAN'T?
by raggmopp on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bass got signed by Orlando
I don’t think we could’ve gotten him, he wants at least a chance of an expanded role, which Orlando can give him
Call Brandon Roy by his real nicknames: The Natural and Roybot. Lets put an end to "B-Roy"
by #7TheNatural on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You can't have too many bigs." —Joel Przybilla, 2009
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forget he also said
“Good game motherZacher”
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see all of these "after Millsap arrives we can trade Przybilla away" types
be locked in a cage match with Joel for about ten minutes
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be cool! I bet Dave would interview JP on the spot and I'd be right there to hear the interview
I love JP. I’m fine if we keep him, but if KP feels like he’s going to opt out and leave town anyway… I’m for getting value for value and for not losing assets without compensation.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if KP feels like he’s going to opt out and leave town
then he should offer Przy an extension right after he gets done with Brandon and LMA
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 11, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and his agent tells you it will be $10M/year for 4 years
otherwise my client wants to test the waters. Bargnani got $10M. My client thinks that that sets the market for him. Okur just got$10M+/year (on a shorter deal), so maybe we’ll consider a 3 year deal at 10 per… KP?? Are you on the phone to Houston while I’m still in the room??
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote a long repsonse below
that explains why I don’t think that this will be the case with Joel. You’re welcome to read it and respond down there
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 11, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick Is On The Radio
Lamenting about Brandon Roy and how bad KP is. CRY ME A RIVER.
I swear, Jason Quick is the drama queen of Portland.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no...he is basing it on Brandon's interview today
it really did NOT sound good. Not that it won’t work out eventually, but I think having Brandon Roy in the fold has hurt us in recruiting.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick is underwhelming
His writing is superb, but his analysis is lacking.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
Great writer, poor judgment, high drama
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick Is Pouring It On
My God, this guy is indeed a drama queen.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
canzano is helping him out
by mis-quoting roy and taking what he says out of context
from twitter
“Brandon Roy says its “50-50” that he stays with the Blazers. Tune in BFT on 95.5 FM"
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely did not say that
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
what roy said was it’s 50-50 how he feels from day to day about the contract negotiations. i was about to swear at canzano a bunch but gave up halfway through, i ran out of swear words.
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call up his show and complain!
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canzano is pathetic.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's HORRIBLE
Another reason to hate Canzano. TOTALLY a misquote.
unconscionable given that the stuff Brandon ACTUALLY said was interesting enough
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only a lie if you're smart enough to know it is.
Otherwise, it’s a mistake. Canzano is a walking, talking mistake.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good...
It’s about time we got something done… Even if Utah matches it’s highly unlikely that they will find someone to take Boozer until closer to the deadline. And if they can’t then Utah will be massively over the tax.
If that scenario works out, either way we win out. Either we get our man or we screw up the Jazz’s cap space and budget til next year
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
If Milsap comes over does that mean Pryzbilla is gone?
How else does MIllsap get enough playing time?
I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley
by Earl on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So is Al Jefferson.
Chuck Hayes is actually shorter, same with Jason Maxiell, Al Horford, Reggie Evans, Ben Wallace, Etc.
Height is not a problem.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
length > strength
I joke about this occasionally but it’s true to a certain extend. You do want bangers, but if a 6’6 banger is going up against a 6’10 banger with equal bulk, heart and skills, the taller player is going to get over. Sometimes, a “low center of gravity” can help a player hold his position in the paint, but it’s not as importantt as those few extra inches of length.
(As as11osu likes to say, it’s not so much head height as it is wing-span, and “the more the better” obviously. If you’ve got a tall skinny guy with T-Rex arms, chances are he’s gona get whupped by the shorter/stouter pterodactyl, especially if both players have equal hops.)
The L*kers are “the” target and they’ve got a long frontline, especially when Bynum and Odom are “bracketing” Gasol. KP/Nate have to look at L*A’s potential tall frontcourt tandem and ask themselves “who have we got that can match-up with those guys?” (Obviously you can’t play LMA-Greg-Przy together, and Frye/Outlaw weren’t the answer, either.) So, first they looked at Hedo at now they’ve taken a stab at Millsap. I think they’re barking up the right tree and hopefully they will be able to acquire a better “banger” to play those 4/3 minutes that Outlaw has been getting
BTW, Cunningham may eventually be able to fill this role as well, depending on his development and desire
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 12, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably.
No championship team in the past five years ( Probably longer but I didn’t look that far) has had a primary front court rotation of more than three players.
Joel would get moved. There’s a good chance he’s gone in two years anyway so there’s no sense in keeping him. I can’t imagine anyone signing a 32 year old, injury prone center to a long term deal when you already have three borderline all-stars under the age of 26. Not going to happen.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I had to create a team of my favorite NBAers, Paul Millsap is in the top ten.
Sad that he won’t be a Blazer.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what True Blue Jazz has to say about all of this...
The Zer’s are Desperate
Written by The Agreement
Thursday, 09 July 2009 12:02
pmansap
I’m sure a lot of you have heard the news this morning that reportedly the Zer’s plan to offer Millsap a “toxic” offer that will squash any chance the Jazz will have at resigning him for a fair amount. Since we all know that Zer fans spend most of their day surfing the web looking for blogs that say anything negative about their favorite team (while of course they are winning anyway), like flies searching for…(well you know), I expect that this post may get some negative publicity, that is if they still aren’t embarrassed about that little first round fiasco with the Rockette’s a couple of months ago.
Paul isn’t going anywhere, that is of course unless the Zer’s are willing to cough up over ten or eleven mill for a backup PF. Paul knows that Boozer is on his way out, and that the starting PF position is his in Utah if he stays. He will use the Zer’s to leverage the deal he wants, which will force the Jazz to match. Of course he is going to talk sweet to Portland management…he wants an offer sheet! The sad thing for Zer fans is they are about to be burned by another high profile FA. Why would Millsap want to go to Portland so that he can back-up Aldridge? The only reason I can think of is around $12,000,000. Portland is going to have the same issue the Jazz have now over the next couple of seasons as their young guys grow out of their rookie deals and want to get paid. If they are short-sighted enough to sign Paul to a $12,000,000 deal, they can have him, because it will only help the Jazz in the end.
Can you imagine the Blazers losing two or three key pieces because a big chunk of their money is tied up in their backup PF? Ridiculous…
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does he have to keep calling us the Zer's
seriously?
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the Jazz.
Say what you want about other teams, but I really hate the Jazz.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate them too
Along with the L*kers and spurs
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By L*kers are you rferring to the 2009 NBA Champs?
Zer’s, hmmmmm. Has a ring to it.
by Coop21 on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the history
of suckitude, referring to the Blazers as “Zer’s” is right at the top of the list.
Duct tape makes you smart.
by TTRocks on Jul 10, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a bastardized SuperSonic fan, I hold no ill-will toward Los Angeles or San Antonio fans.
The Utah Jazz, however, are a different story, particularly due to the heated rival between them and the Seattle SuperSonics during the mid-’90s.
Regarding the Los Angeles Lakers, Portland and Sacramento fans have the most disdain for the big-market powerhouse.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well no one outside of utah wants to watch the Zz
they put me to sleep
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What worries me a little bit....
Is that what this guy/person is saying seems to make some sense. I hope that KP is not being played for a sucker again.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his hand was forced by the bluff
now Utah’s hand is forced…let’s see what THEY do.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a lousy poker player...
Hopefully, KP is much better!
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does he make more sense?
where did he get 12m/yr from? he’s pulling things out of his ass and completely ignoring the (nearly necessary) trade of boozer.
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To those BEdgers who refer to our team as the Zers:
A Jazz fan has just used that term to denigrate the Blazers. He knows, as you apparently do not, that it is an insult to the team name. If you use it, therefore, you too will be insulting the Trail Blazers. I am sure you do not want to do that. The full name of the team is the Portland Trail Blazers. You may shorten it to Blazers. Do not shorten it further, unless you want to forever be known as a Jazz-loving troll.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 10, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Jazz
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But only from New Orleans
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PA not in the greatest health?
The NBA: Where amazingly bad officiating happens, is encouraged, and rewarded.
by The Roybot on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
Quick is on the radio proclaiming that Allen’s health might be playing a factor in this negotiation process. What in the world is this tabloid crap?
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That actually is a long-standing talk. Allen cancelled quite important events last year on short notice.
It could be a reason to speed things up.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to some mod can delete this since there is of course no proof of a remission, but in 1983 Allen was diagnosed and successfully treated for Hodgkin’s lymphoma. A potentially fatal cancer.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously...
We all hope Allen’s not sick. I did notice in a film clip I saw of him not long ago that he looked gaunt like he’d lost some weight and not in a good way. Just didn’t look healthy to me.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be a reason to speed things up.
It could also be a reason for the 4 year offers to Roy and Millsap
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In terms of an absolutely reasonable if not low ball contract
4 years at $36 million for Paul Milsap is in that category. If Portland ends up with Milsap at that price, that is HUGE asset!
by JasonT on Jul 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And it's $16M/yr. to Utah, since they're over the tax line...
So if the Blazers paying $12M for a backup is moronic, what is paying $16M for a backup, Mr. Jz???
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and it's more than that in the first year
in a year where I bet the owner has already instructed them to cut costs since his car dealerships are all going under
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The owner died recently...
so he must be channeling instructions. Seriously, the new ownership may well be doing as you say.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not clear (serious question)
who is it that’s in the auto industry…new owners or old?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Smith's son
Smith’s son now controls all of Pop’s assets, including the Jazz.
by 3pointer on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes you wonder
who runs the empire (and ballclub) when Paul passes?
The Vulcans?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Allen's, Jody Patton, will likely take over operations of Vulcan Inc. in that case.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sir I need some backup with some Hinrich talk at the bottom of the page
Over n out.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You will like this
Its Hinrich Vs Bayless.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll make my way down there eventually.
I’m so worn out from that debate, however.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome observance that doesn't seem to be clearly stated elsewhere I've looked.
Unless you’re wrong?
by BlazerGal on Jul 10, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge asset?
8.5 mil a year for a backup that plays about 15 minutes a game? I am glad it’s not my money.
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huge trade asset.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huge trade assett who if he plays here, will play more than 15 mpg
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Paul Millsap would recieve an estimated 24 minutes per game as a banger off of the bench.
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
First 6 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: Paul Millsap
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
First 4 Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: Paul Millsap
Next 2 Minutes
C: LaMarcus Aldridge
PF: Paul Millsap
Last 6 Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/8/942803/and-just-like-that-a-storm#17975973
LaMarcus Aldridge would take a dip in playing time, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGHARRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAUAAUUAUAH!
Micromanaging hypotheticals quarter by quarter and minute by minute is over the top.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Corner
If Utah would rather have Milsap then Boozer, then wouldn’t this corner them into taking Tim Tyrus, who Chicago would give up for Blake and Cap space. So even if Utah matches. Then our worst case scenario is that we lose blake and gain Captain Kirk. Best Case we end up with Milsap and lose no one.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL Quick
HE HAS NOT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT MILLSAP.
That says it all!!!
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or the phone apparently.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he doesn't even read the newspaper!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard that last time he read the oregonian
he read his own column and said “that guy is an *!” before he saw who wrote it
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
YESSSSS
Now lets hope there’s plenty more action coming.
by Free Bayless on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my question
. . . which I have not seen answered yet.
Does the offer sheet to Millsap foreclose making a three-way trade with Utah and another team?
In other words, under the CBA could Utah orchestrate a trade for Boozer in the next few days that would bring a player to Portland (e.g., Hinrich, Prince) and then match Portland’s offer for Millsap?
I think that could work, but not sure. Would it create cap problems for Utah?
by xman47 on Jul 10, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i think that's what we're shooting for
they’re seeing it as either we get millsap, or we force a 3-way trade (with chicago, despite all their denials)…
by richardb on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally allowed
only thing not allowed is a trade of MILLSAP to Portland after we sign him to an offer sheet and Utah matches. Other three ways work fine
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or someone else
I don’t see why everyone seems to think Chicago is the only possible third party.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
our capspace is locked up
until Utah matches, so any deal we make has to under the 125% rules that apply to over the cap teams.
We could of course reach an agreement in principal for a trade requring cap space, then execute it once Utah matches our offer sheet
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't even do that
since it would have to be conditional on Utah matching.
otherwise we’d be a renegger, and no one wnats to do that…well, no one not named Hedo
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what i meant was
we could reach a handshake deal with Utah and a 3rd team for a deal that requires us using our capspace. Then Utah matches Millsap, then Utah/Port/3rd team execute the handshake deal.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
it looks like that ugly dude is finally reaping what he sewed a few years back when he screwed the cavs.
Chili Davis - the closest thing the MLB got to a real life Pedro Cerrano.
by NW angels Fan on Jul 10, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point
Unless Utah bites the Cap bullet(which they won’t) and keep both. This is a win either way for us now.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What is the logic for not offering Millsap the max we could have offered him?
Given that Utah was likely to match anyway. Or, is Blazer brass actually figuring this offer is “toxic” enough that Utah won’t match?
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing
I guess with all the players we have to re-sign soon, they didn’t want to push all their chips in now.
by kobisportsguy on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it WAS the Max
guess we didn’t want to renounce Euros.
It’s the BEGINNING of the contract that makes it toxic, not the end. The fifth year wouldn’t have affected the deal
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, we could have gone 5 years and another 10.164 on the final year
and some of that 10.164 would have been rolled into the up-front bonus money, so it would have made the overal deal longer, more money, and required an extra 1.7 million in cash up front bonus money.
so it is an interesting question. perhaps it’s because we WANT them to match.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anybody done the math?
If utah matches and then trades boozer, does this contract rate for Millsap get them under the cap? Maybe it’s an offer low enough that they get under the cap if they sign him and trade Boozer to get us what we wabnt, but high enough that they can’t afford to keep both.
If so, BRILLIANT!
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not under the cap
but if they match for Millsap and trade Boozer for nothing, it puts them just a hair under the tax threshold.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right...misspoke.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that case,
I think this really was deliberate and meant to make Utah amenable to helping us.
as opposed to a “poison pill,” like the Vikings sprung on the Seahawks, which is what the word “toxic” implied to some.
maybe a change in strategy? and a much more “user friendly” one at that.
See, you don’t have to SLAP people to win…sometimes we ALL win!
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i came up with same numbers
boozer out, nothing in puts them like 100k under.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the more I hear, the more I think
we were really harder on the mgmt team than we should have been. blind trust is bad, but unswerving unbelief is worse
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever read Shogun or Tai Pan
Everything looks bad and the……. bam!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO KIDDING
If they look stupid to me, it is much more likely that I don’t understand what is going on than that they are stupid.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Douglas T is right... KP has no real intention of landing Millsap, he just wants to incapacitate Utah vis a vis the cap for the next several years...
perhaps it’s because we WANT them to match.
I don’t believe KP has found Jesus with regards to low post play AT ALL. It’s been two fricking years of Channing Frye and Travis Outlaw out of position, for chrissakes… NOW he’s gonna invest real money in a low post banger?!?!?!? I seriously doubt it.
He’s pritchslapping Utah here. Verb used advisedly and correctly. When you see Storyteller’s new salary chart for Utah, you will understand… They are going to be in SERIOUS cap trouble.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$10 million for Milsap?
No I don’t think so. $8.5 is very reasonable to both sides, KP and Penn is putting in a giant signing bonus to deter the Jazz. We’ll see if it works for not. It was always a cash flow problem with the Jazz, not a salary problem.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still feel like
This is a ploy to force Utah into taking Tim Thomas rather than Tyrus, then rather than giving up Rex we trade Blake for Captain Kirk.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
very plausible
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what sux about that
is that Portland is fightin to do the one thing I DON’T want them to do…giving up Blake. sigh Glad I’m not the GM.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and currently most hated person on BE
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kp
i still love him, but he’s not that popular right now
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this moment, several people are being way too hard on Kevin Pritchard.
Yes, Pritchard was an idiot for targeting a declining, overpriced Hedo Turkoglu — who’d’ve been an awkward fit on the Portland Trail Blazers both offensively and defensively — however, the problems surrounding Brandon Roy’s contract extension are almost assuredly the fault of Paul Allen.
by AK1984 on Jul 10, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call
That could well be the case
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not the max?
1. We’ve offered the max we could (for four years) without renouncing our Euros. You don’t want to renounce assets that might be of value when Utah is probably going to match anyway.
2. We could have added a fifth year which would have increased the amount, but it made little difference. The decider here for Utah is the cash flow problem of getting hit with a big signing bonus on short notice, and having to pay huge luxury tax next year. A fifth year at $10 million is no big deal for them, the problem is the next 12 months.
3. Most analysts would think a five year deal for Millsap at this kind of money is probably a good deal, if he is your starter (as he will be for Utah). Why let them lock up a possible all-star PF for a fifth year at a decent cost? What is he likely to get on the open market as UFA in that fifth year (at the age of 28, right in his prime)? Probably more. That fifth year would probably be more beneficial to the team than the player, barring significant injury. Since Utah is likely to match no matter what we do, why do them the favor of adding the fifth year?
Utah is going to match, anyway. So the key here is to structure the deal to be painful right now rather than beneficial for them. Painful enough that they will be much more strongly motivated to dump Boozer in a straight salary dump.
The more teams that are looking to do a salary dump, the more teams will be looking to Portland to facilitate it.
I don’t care if we are part of the Boozer salary dump. If OKC or Sacramento facilitate something for Utah, that is one more team that can’t help with the next salary dump that comes along. Because another one will come along.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
nice work, rec
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a related note
our capspace could climb as high as just over 9 million once the season starts, which is the amount it would be if we just add the mimimum number of players (3) to our roster, and all 3 get the rookie minimum. This is because the Claver/Koponen/Freeland cap holds go away at that point.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
So we will actually have more cap flexibility if we wait until after the first game of the season for a big trade. And if we wait a couple of months, we’ll know more about Martell’s health and development, and the progression of Greg, Jerryd, and Nic — all of which could impact what kind of player we want.
The greatest problem with waiting is that Bedge will be toxic for all that time, even while our current roster is tearing up the league.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point of diminishing returns
Let’s say that Utah deals Boozer to OKC (as unlikely as it seems, right now) and KP is the “last GM standing” with any amount of appreciable cap space. Thats an enviable position to be in, heading into the season and next February, right? Probably so, but the danger grows as the trading deadline looms, because as much as there should be teams out there who would like to make an unbalanced trade, KP’s rival GMs (who all hate his guts, if you believe AWoj) will try to “low-ball” the Blazer’s GM, knowing that his “window” of opportunity to make a great deal with his 9 mil$ cap-space is nearing an end.
The other reason for “not waiting” is something we know about KP from his past behavior; he tends to like to construct his roster before training camp starts and not make significant changes during the regular season. We all saw this first-hand at last February’s trading deadline, when KP had RLEC and an injured starting PG and chose not to make an offer for Hinrich (etc) because he didn’t want to disrupt his team’s focus/chemistry.
I realize that KP doesn’t want to be pressured into “making a move just for the sake of just making a move” but I think he’d rather “know” what his final roster is going to be heading into the season than “hope” the special fit will come later and then have to make an important roster change and force Nate to have to integrate a new player into the mix. Not that McMillian couldn’t handle that task (he’d probably welcome the new arrival, especially if it was a vet with playoff experience) but you can imagine how re-organizing the rotation and re-establishing “everyone’s roles” could affect a young team’s cohesiveness
It’s better to make these moves sooner than later, that’s what I’m saying. I still remember the Whitsitt era where Trader Bob tried to “shoe-horn” Detlef Schrempf and Rod Strickland into a good-but-not-great rotation and seeing it backfire on his coaching staff. KP should try to avoid this kind of mess, and I think he’s trying to
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 12, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
millsap offer is genius
Remember, the Jazz are owned by a family whose money comes from American car dealerships. The fact Utah would have to pay double this next year for Millsap since they are in luxury tax territory already makes it very difficult for them to do.
We either get Millsap, make Utah pay huge financial penalties, or force Utah to find a taker for Boozer and get nothing in return.
Also keep in mind there aren’t many ways Utah can get rid of Boozer without taking salary back that doesn’t involve Portland.
This is a no-lose situation and Portland didn’t even renounce Freeland and Koponen. I love it.
by McCoyBoyz on Jul 10, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
The golden aura is alive and well.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So this would be...
Check or checkmate?
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta stick with check, until ink hits paper.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check, but mate in a few if the wrong move is made here
better than check, but nowhere near checkmate.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check with a knight
forking a rook.
We’ve used our cap space to gain the exchange. It isn’t necessarily a winning move, but a good chance it leads to it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller family has a net worth just north of $500,000,000
Plus their business enterprises (which includes car dealerships) generate in excess of $2,000,000,000 in revenue a year. I don’t think cash flow is a problem for them (much like Paul Allen who is even wealthier). Nonetheless, having loads of cash is not an excuse to make a bad business decision.
by Coop21 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct. Either we get decent value for the cap space, or we severely handicap a division rival for about 3 years...
We either get Millsap, make Utah pay huge financial penalties, or force Utah to find a taker for Boozer and get nothing in return.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my best guess of what the deal looks like:
sorry it’s hard to put a table in here so i have to paste the image of my excel calculation:
assuming we used the entire cap space without renouncing any unsigned picks.
total offer is 4 year, $34.5 million which falls into the range that Quick reported.
The “toxic” part is that in 2009-2010 season Jazz has to pay Millsap’s first year salary ($6,567,660) + luxury tax ($7,717,000) + bonus ($5,149,045) = $19,433,705
Not sure if it’s big enough to scare away them though.
by iverigma2 on Jul 10, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I think this is a great offer
The Jazz have a cash flow problem is they are hesitate to match a Millsap offer. It doesn’t matter if the Blazers offer $10 million a year, it only matters that next year, the Jazz will have to pay a hefty sum of money just to retain Millsap.
They could take a financial risk and match the offer. It just puts them further into a bad position where they must give Boozer up to a division rival like OKC.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it...
You don’t HAVE to structure an offer with raises every year. Take Hinrich as an example – his salary decreases year by year. The likely “toxic” part of the offer is that it’s weighted heavily in the first year, with as large of a bonus as possible – probably 8 and change in year one.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I calculated this prior to seeing your post. I did it for 36 mil total contract so it may be of some value. The final years could be configured many different ways so I just split them evenly.
36,000,000 – Total
30,769,230 – Salary
5,230,770 – Bonus to be paid at signing. The salary cap number is based on the average over the life of the contract.
Year 1 – Salary 6,392,307.50 Bonus – 1,307,692.5
Year 2 – Salary 8,125,640.66 Bonus – 1,307,692.5
Year 3 – Salary 8,125,640.66 Bonus – 1,307,692.5
Year 4 – Salary 8,125,640.67 Bonus – 1,307,692.5
by malarky on Jul 10, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
iverigma -
Any bonus is spread out evenly over the 4 years of the contract. Here’s my ‘guess’ as to the offer if the cap hit in the first year is $7,700,000:
__Salary__________Bonus________Cap Hit__
6,190,800_______1,509,200______7,700,000
6,806,800_______1,509,200______8,316,000
7,422,800_______1,509,200______8,932,000
8,038,000_______1,509,200______9,548,000
Total bonus paid upon signing would be $6,036,800. Total amount of the contract would be $34,496,000.
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is exactly what I sent to Ben
to the dollar
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Millsap sign this offer sheet? Well, at least to drive his market price up.
Now he would get the same nice signing bonus if Utah decides to match. He-dough and Million-sap.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
this guy?
http://www.celebritywonder.com/img/wallpaper/Milsap_in_Block_Party_Wallpaper_9.jpg
yes, i signed up just to post this. although i’ve been reading blazersedge for years and had i known i could use my yahoo id i would have done it a long time ago.
by Fantastic Red Turtle on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the BEdge!
Please observe the “No Sanity” sign until late September.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't worry,
I promise a complete lack of sanity at all times.
by Fantastic Red Turtle on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
now back to the movie.
by Fantastic Red Turtle on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we just give Roy his money first? I'd feel better that way.
SIGN BRANDON ROY TO A 5 YEAR DEAL NOW!
by ArbyOSU on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Congrats, Blazers
You’ve managed to create a contract that will put the Jazz in luxury-tax hell for one year and padded David Stern’s pocket in the process.
Which is exactly what will happen.
The thing about the luxury tax is that, even if you’re over by a penny, you don’t get a slice of the revenue from other tax payers. Yes, it sucks to have to match dollar-for-dollar, so the penalty is definitely worse the more you are over the cap. But in large part, if you’re over, you’re over.
The Jazz are over the tax this year ANYWAY, with or without Millsap. That was just about set in stone when Boozer, Okur and Korver all opted in, and solidified when Okur signed an extension yesterday. And if you’re already paying the tax anyway, you might as well suck it up and match on Millsap.
That’s why the Jazz have said, over and over and over this offseason, that they are “willing” to go over the luxury tax to re-sign Millsap. Fact is, they have no choice. They’re over the tax no matter what they do.
The question has just been: how far over the luxury tax will the Jazz be?
If they move Boozer, the dollar-for-dollar penalty could be mitigated. But then again, his contract IS expiring. As is Matt Harpring’s. As is Kyle Korver’s.
Point is, the Jazz will only be over the luxury tax for one year, no matter if they match on Millsap or not.
So again: what the Blazers have accomplished is taking millions of dollars directly out of Jazz owner Greg Miller’s pocket and sending it to David Stern. Yeah, the Blazers, as non-tax payers, will get a slice of that revenue, as divided among all non-tax paying teams. But this doesn’t affect the Jazz roster at all, really. Or the Blazers. It just makes Greg Miller a lot poorer.
That’s how I see it, at least, from the Jazz point of view.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We're all very sorry for you, really.
SIGN BRANDON ROY TO A 5 YEAR DEAL NOW!
by ArbyOSU on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our thoughts
Go out to you.
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
No, I didn’t mean that to sound like, “oh, pity us poor Jazz fans.” The Blazers have played this exactly right, to a T. They set the market price for Millsap in such a way as to cause the absolute worst one-year tax situation for Utah. But that’s all this is.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland is hoping that Utah gets desperate to move Boozer, I guess. Might as well offer Millsap if there is no other big thing to chase with the cap space.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's fair
and it makes perfect sense from a Portland situation. There’s no downside for the Blazers.
Actually, you know what the worst downside would be for the Blazers? If the Jazz DON’T match. And three years from now, the Blazers may be paying an exorbitant amount for a backup who gets less than 20 minutes a game. Given the money that’s coming to Roy, Aldridge and Oden, it’s entirely possible that the Blazers tax situation in, say, 2011-12, will look a lot like the Jazz tax situation of 2009.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one difference:
our owner can afford to pay it.
by kickbrass on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently not
see: Roy, Brandon extension talks
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a bit premature
There is no concrete information other than they are still neogotiating.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still say the Roy contract isn't about Roy, it's about making LMA squirm and come in well under the max.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really good point.
I should have thought of that.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or it's about their agent playing hardball with KP
to get the Blazers to up the offer on LMA.
one that that occurred to me is that Roy could be wanting a 5 year extension, with an ETO after 3 years. the team might be saying we’ll give you either a straight 4 instead, or 5 with and ETO after 4
This would actually fit into the reported dispute – Roy wants 5, Blazers want 4, but the ETO details aren’t being given out, which would at least somewhat justify the Blazer’s reported position. they could be pushing for 4 years to protect themselves from Roy opting out after just 3
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
willing and able are different, Paul Allen will be able to afford the question is, is he willing too
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely true
and maybe that renders my point irrelevant. Rich owners make a huge difference.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're kind of all rich
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all relative, I guess
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
compared to me?
they are all very rich. I wish I had their problems
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I had a relative like that.
One in his 80s 90s on death’s door, I am his only direct descendant and he loves me with all his heart.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 10, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Blazers could trade Millsap THIS year in December as he wouldn’t be BYC. The signing bonus would be paid, so it’s a quality borderline all-star big for 7 million real dollars per season. That’s not attractive?
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they don't match, it's no biggie
we got a very good player on a very reasonable contract. we’ll either find time to play him, or we have more ammunitiont for a later trade.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pritchard is all about acquiring talent
He often says it’s the job of the coach to figure out minutes and positions. If Przybilla leaves in next year, they could acquire a new younger center (draft, free agency with part of MLE) and assume their rotation would still be very solid. Assuming Oden is healthy and good then of course.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryzzy isn't going anywhere. Where else would fans consider a 6 ppg. Center one of the team MVPs???
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mutumbo fans
of several NBA cities?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
One dimensional players are awesome. Joel is basically just a taller Reggie Evans, who himself is clearly the heart and soul of of the 76’ers Raptors.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can afford it this year
and the following years are half the price.
by Wes Man on Jul 10, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It only takes one bad year to wipe away years of profit.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we could only...
figure out a way to do something like to the L*kers! They’re who we really hate.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we were doing this to the Grizzlies, Lakers, or Celtics instead.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously? I put the Jazz and Thunder in my top five.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you Greg Miller's son?
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does this pad david stern's pocket?
it just takes money from one team and distributes it to others. or, it pushes him to do something smart and move Boozer and help Portland.
help yourself out
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The league keeps a significant percentage of the luxury tax payments for "operations"
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah
well, I went to the same law school as David Stern, so I’d rather see him keep the money over Miller, who, after all, owns the JAZZ
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a really strange reason to want him to keep the money.
I’d like it so the NBA ran a little more comfortably, if it is indeed true that they take a large chunk for administration.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was more a dig at the Jazz than an endorsement of a fellow lawyer
point being I’d rather have a LAWYER take the money than a Jazz owner.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that's saying something
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, that's terrible.
Let’s remember that Stern is much worse than any Jazz owner.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just call it...
Revenge for what happened to us with Darius Miles.
by kuhnsmith on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which had something to do with Utah?
Keep in mind that everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazers Edge.
by pualo on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ironically, if the Blazers stay under the cap, Utah's money goes into Paul Allen's wallet...
You’ve managed to create a contract that will put the Jazz in luxury-tax hell for one year and padded David Stern’s pocket in the process.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will bet you $5 that this is incorrect.
Point is, the Jazz will only be over the luxury tax for one year, no matter if they match on Millsap or not.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are gonna be taxpayers for 3.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would surprise me
Probably Harpring walks next year to keep them under.
Unless the tax threshold drops significantly.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
were you expecting some
sort of solidarity among owners?
by Falcao on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course the Jazz have to say they will pay the tax and match any offer
But you never know until they actually do it. We’ll see now.
by KitIsh on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A little confused...
Is it just me, or did all the “toxic” talk get blown out of proportion the last day or so? This really doesn’t sound like that nuclear option everyone was talking about, the kind that Utah couldn’t match no matter what.
I’m torn, too. I’ve mentioned before how much I heart Paul Millsap and would love to see him in black and red.
But I’m also married to a Jazz fan, so the fact that Utah will still likely retain Millsap means that I probably won’t have to sleep on the couch every game night.
by ElJustino on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
best of luck to you
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
shums
Chances are this contract will cost Utah $18 million or so in salary and luxury tax. That’s a lot of money for an ownership group for one year that is bleeding money in the American automobile industry. I don’t believe Utah has ever come close to the salary figure they are about to if they match.
Regardless, its a great move. Takers for Boozer that can do so without giving contracts back are few and far between.
by McCoyBoyz on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you're right, they never have come close to this figure.
And it’s an awful situation for a small-market team like Utah. Because the luxury tax was specifically put in place to try to level the playing field for small-market teams, so we don’t get a Yankees-Red Sox-type situation where big-market teams can outspend everyone else. If Utah blows right through the luxury tax like this, even for one year, it makes it very difficult to justify having the luxury tax at all. And that sucks for everyone.
It’s a nightmare for the Jazz. Absolute nightmare. But it’s only one year. I’m still convinced the Jazz will look long-term, see all the money coming off the cap next summer, and justify the one-year expenditure. That is what they’ve said all along that they will do.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how the Jazz are the victim here.
The management overpaid for AK47. Spent money to aquire Korver and resign Harpring. They put themselves in this situation, not the Blazers or the league.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
heck, they just reupped Okur for big money.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you want to have good players and compensate them, then it’s going to cost a lot of monye.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
about ten per year, i rather have okur than bargnani
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, I was just saying that Utah isn’t slowing down. They want to keep a lot of good players, and that is expensive.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reupping the HORRIFICALLY OVERRATED Okur for 2 more years at $12M per has made it impossible for the Jazz to play violins about having to pay their PF of the future $8M.
Especially since they stole from him paying him $797,000 last year.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you be in favor of
ripping up Rudy’s contract and signing him to a larger one based on his rookie season?
And Rudy deal may wind up being worse because the team has a couple of option years and a qualifying offer in 2012-13
I don’t think we’ve heard the last from Fernandez’ agent…by the time he’s done posturing we may look back with (relative) fondness on todays interview with Roy and Softy
All contract negotiations should be so “amicable”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on his rookie season?
He hit a lot of threes and didn’t do much else. Since when did that deserve a huge contract? Somebody should tell Anthony Morrow.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true enough
the AK contract is an abomination. Completely the fault of Jazz management and no one else for that.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's was a bad year
which contract from that year is worse
Zach Randoph or AK
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirlenkos
Because Randolph is apparently not that hard to trade.
by neutroticblazerfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing how blind love can be
People see that Zach can score, and they forget the rest.
by pdxer in dfw on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would that zach is still a viable 2nd or third option assuming you have some capable and willing to play defense next to him in the post
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, only because memphis and isiah thomas exist
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
by Zaron5551 on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a Real GM poster loserX
Based on what I got from Larry Coon’s site:
Let’s say the contract starts at $7.5M. That means the totals break down as follows:
Year 1: 7.5
Year 2: 8.1
Year 3: 8.8
Year 4: 9.5
Total = 33.9. That’s about the range that looks to be discussed, and fits with rough calculations of Portland’s capspace.
The signing bonus can be 17.5% of the total…in this case, $5.9M. That amount gets spread over the guaranteed years of the contract (or, $1.475 per year) for CAP PURPOSES. However, Portland cannot go over its allotted capspace, so each year of the contract gets reduced by the amount of the allocated bonus. But the bonus itself is all paid in year 1.
What’s the effect? For CAP purposes, the contract looks as above. But in terms of CASH payout, Millsap gets:
Year 1: 7.5 – 1.475 + 5.9 = 11.925
Year 2: 8.1 – 1.475 = 6.625
Year 3: 8.8 – 1.475 = 7.325
Year 4: 9.5 – 1.475 = 8.025
That bolded figure in year 1 is how the Blazers are trying to scare off the Jazz.
by Falcao on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
right on
which is why it’s puzzling they didn’t put the 5th year on. If they truly wanted the contract to be “toxic”, the could have added that 5th year atg about 10 million, 1.7 of which would have been up front bonus money, taking the outlay for this year up to 13.6
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently our management is allergic to five year deals
Furthermore, if they only want (for some God-knows-why reason) to give Roy four years, giving Millsap 5 years doesn’t help negotiations.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they only want to give Roy four years, giving Millsap 5 years doesn’t help negotiations
GREAT point.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yet another reason the Roy deal NOT getting done yet DOES matter
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jazz
Even when Boozer and Korver drop off next year, the Jazz are right at the luxury tax threshold again with the extension to Okur, Kirilenko, D.Williams, and what would be Millsap. If the Jazz plan on taking the one-year hit, letting Boozer and Korver walk, so be it. That hurts them long-term if they aren’t going to replace those guys.
I love Millsap, but I wouldn’t want him as one of my Top 2 players long-term. He’s a high energy bench guy that can play 25-30 minutes when needed. He’s undersized to be a dominant long-term 4 in the league.
No matter what they do, this move by Portland hurts them this year and for years to come. They were hoping Boozer left this year and that they would get Millsap much cheaper than this. If not for Portland stepping in here, Utah might have got him for $5 million a season as the market was drying up.
by McCoyBoyz on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That is a good point to make.
To me, the Jazz are not contenders with a core of Milsap, Okur, and Williams. Are they willing to keep a high payroll to keep that core together and face the probability of keeping a team without a future. That’s how the Bucks got into their mess. High payroll with mediocre returns.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add Ronnie Brewer to that
and the Knicks’ #1 draft pick this coming year. I feel just fine with D-Will at max money, Okur at $10M and Millsap at $8M. Without other big contracts like AK and Boozer and Harpring, that leaves tons of money to fill with cheaper role players.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the salary recap below
Definitely not “tons of money” scenario. Jazz are going to be in the hurt for at least 2 years.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you figure?
Even when Boozer and Korver drop off next year, the Jazz are right at the luxury tax threshold again with the extension to Okur, Kirilenko, D.Williams, and what would be Millsap.
Okur + AK + DWill + Millsap = less than $50M. That’s not even close to the luxury tax, even when you add in the rest of the roster that’s under contract.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tax and cap will come down by 4-6 million next year, so it could be close
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
quick figures
AK, DWill, Okur, Miles, Millsap, Maynor, Koufos total 57.5 million. Add in whatever Brewer gets extended at
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Estimated Salaries.
2010-2011
Williams $17.8
AK $15.2
Milsap $8 (cap hit due to signing bonus)
Okur $10
$51 million for 4 players. With a skeleton roster. No Boozer or Korver included. That’s a bad long term scenario.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
by blzrfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what this offer is really about — incapacitating Utah.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate re-signs for another year, in the fanshots.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah...except I said "extends"
didn’t want anyone going and jumping off a bridge reading “re-signs” as “resigns”
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s why I stuck the hyphen in there. :)
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would Nate "resigns" for another year make any sense?
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wouldn't
but my fanshot is “nate extended.” "Nate “resigned” or “nate resigns” might have been confuding, especially if reading quickly, and particularly without the hyphen. Geez…nitpicker
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I like this.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh heh, heh heh
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong color
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
KP doesn’t actually want to do any of these moves.
He knew Toronto would offer Turk more and he’d accept it
He knows Utah is going to resign Millsap
I think he’s either content with what he’s got or he didn’t like any possibilities out there for the Blazers this year.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, he wanted Turkoglu. Number picked out and Turkoglu had promised multiple, multiple times that he was coming, per Wheeler.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah well
Bayless said he didnt even see Greg this summer, people say things they don’t mean all the time. And Turk in Portland doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, not for 5 years especially and 10mil. And its true, we don’t have very good pizza.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must not live in Portland
Apizza Scholls has better pizza than anything in New York.
by BrewDude on Jul 10, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a statement.
You tried every pizza in New York?
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must not have lived in New York.
It’s all opinion of course. Yours is just wrong.
by portlandpete on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s crazy talk.
i’ll just assume you haven’t spent much time in NY
by strong on Jul 10, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna have to disagree with you there
Kp really wanted Hedo. I do think Utah will eat the money and resign Millsap though, but I also think KP would be very happy if they didn’t
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno
i don’t get whats so great about having a backup PF thats more expensive than your starting…and then a year later sinking 20+million into your starting and backup PFs.
don’t see it.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because both Milsap and LA are eminently tradeable for pieces we DON'T have
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we assume we now have a good chance to land either Millsap or Hinrich?
Though Chicago sources still deny that they would be interested to take on Boozer.
If you want to trade our spare parts for Devin Harris, I have three quarters I would like to trade for your dollar
by Norsktroll on Jul 10, 2009 4:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd still put the chances
at 50 percent or less, sadly
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Utah will match Millsap and find a way to screw us by trading Boozer without us.
my $.02
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats where id put my money
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep.
Utah will only deal with us if they have to. (unless of course the lower offer was something we did to appease them
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No big deal
If they trade with someone else, it takes one more team that can take a salary dump off the market.
By December, KP could be holding all of the cards in the salary dump market, just as people are getting desperate.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does that screw us?
I mean, it’s detrimental to us but they wouldn’t be doing it to screw us over. They’d be doing it to save themselves.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, but it leaves us out in the cold with no way to get better.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or at least less ways
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way to get better?
Still options, though mostly sign and trade scenarios. We’d still have the cap room.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
portland already did get better
martell plus the rookies, and theres still plenty of time to work out a trade. everybody is so set in their mind that Kirk Freakin Hinrich is the answer to the Blazers’ Championship Puzzle. Little do they all know the Kirk Hinrich piece came from a box that doesn’t have a Blazers logo on it.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martell=Hedo
Counting on Martell to improve us is like counting on Hedo to improve us.
Don’t count on it until the contract is signed (or in Martell’s case, until he plays ten games on his injured foot)
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
So why are we all prepared to give Hedo 10mil do to what Martell already can? KP wasn’t really interested in Hedo.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martell =/= Hedo, at all.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying
Martell > Hedo
or Martell < Hedo
I’d rather have the addition of Martell to our team for 4mill or whatever he takes than a 30 year old declining Hedo at 10 for the last 5 (untradeable) years of his career.
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm saying
Martell, is an efficient shooter with some upside, strong, physical specimen with average defensive capabilities and an “adequate” handle. Role Player.
Hedo, is an unefficient scorer with play making abilities and a severe case of old, coupled with a lack of defnesive chops. Poor man’s star.
Apart from playing the same position Martell and Hedo are very different.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I wasn't comparing their abilities at all
I was saying…don’t count your chickens before they hatch!!!
(a lesson we should have learned from the Hedo scenario)
C’mon people…it’s not rocket surgery!!!
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, this sentence is very misleading.
So why are we all prepared to give Hedo 10mil do to what Martell already can?
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not my sentence, but now I see the confusion
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good, thats how i feel
a perfect fit in Toronto. He’ll flourish on a 36 win team
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would make more sense to this Jazz fan.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst case scenario
would be that they do match and trade without us. But, life would not be that bad to go into next season’s trade deadline with our cap space. Plus there are still lopsided trades as a possibility. Or maybe Odom?
by utblazer on Jul 10, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not many team have cap space.
Trading Boozer means taking a matching payroll back unless involve a team with cap space.
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or taking back a contract that is not fully guaranteed
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put it this way
KP is still doing everything he can to make this team better. Millsap, Hinrich, whoever, the wheels are still turning.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not for the next week, they aren't
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they are
Backup plans and backup backup plans and so forth. KP isn’t resting on this.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but they can't finalise anything
and guys sign elsewhere int he meantime (e.g., Ariza, Bass)
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's true
But even if we get Millsap I doubt it’s our last move of the summer. Some trade involving Outlaw would probably go down.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
likely...maybe a sign and trade for a PG
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign and trade?
Sign who? Sign and trades only work when your own player’s contract has expired, then you sign and trade him. I think it will just be plain old trade, and I do imagine it would be for a PG.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking someone else signs a PG they don't necessarily want then trades to us
Like Miller or Sessions
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, that makes sense.
And here’s hoping that’s the case.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1 way to do this
RESIGN ROY YESTERDAY
I am quite confident this will get done…
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
by RDreamer on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty confident we won't resign Roy yesterday
How about tomorrow?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll get it done
The Vulcan’s will come to their senses
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little help?
will someone let me know how long the Jazz have to “match” this offer?
by pdxer in dfw on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
7 days
I think?
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
by RDreamer on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
reports are 7 days
clock starts on Saturday
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to clarify
they have 7 days, once the clock starts. reports are that the clock starts saturday
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, thanks for the thoughts, Blazer friends
It will be an interesting week, for sure. But I stand by my initial feeling: the Jazz will definitely match. What happens after that is up in the air, and there will definitely be more Boozer trade talks, with or without Portland’s involvement. But my money’s on Millsap never putting on the black and red.
Anyway, your input is appreciated. Cheers.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for a classy conversation
Good luck to you personally, even if most of us hate your team. Maybe someday you will see the light, and convert to following a better one.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PG needs
We have tradeable assets to aquire another PG, even if we are allowed to keep Millsap. Now that Patty Mills is out. There ain’t no way he’s going to be back training and playing with the Blazers in 2 months with a 5th metarsal fracture.
by 3pointer on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
but I don't think he was ever going to make the roster
let alone the plkaying rotation anyway…that’s inconsistent with “Going for it”
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't he make the roster?
Current Roster:
Roy
LaMarcus
Greg
Rudy
Batum
Webster
Blake
Outlaw
Pendergraph
Joel
Bayless
That’s 11, under the minimum. Sign Dante and Mills and that’s 13, enough but also two less thaan the maximum.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lots of teams are not going 15 deep next year
and there was a lot of talk of “stashing” him overseas
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We would still need to sign another player to fulfill the minimum roster size.
Having no third point guard would also be an unwise move given Blake’s recent injury.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
as soon as we sign one of the PFs we drafted, we would be at minimum, which I think is 11 or 12. 12 for most of the season, 11 for brief periods during the season is allowed
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is 12.
So you would rather have 2 extra power forwards to back up our 36 minute a game starter, than a third point guard for our comparatively underwhelming point guard rotation?
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy with BOTH, and they can have both
but you said we NEEDED him to get to the minimum. we don’t
and if we don’t add a better PG to our roster than Mills to replace sergio, then I think we can all agree that this offseason=fail
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yes, I'd rather have more bigs than more smalls
especially with a foul prone center and no current legit backup at PF
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least we did SOMETHING!?
Its a total hail mary though.
by rydog9991 on Jul 10, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it time to worry about Roy yet?
Amicable-KP
by Sargent on Jul 10, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
While three days is an eternity in the regular season it is an hour in the off-season.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
media created hysteria
pretend you never heard it and it’ll be the same as if the media never over-reacted in the first place
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
based on the radio inteview I heard....
that would be a definitive yes.
OLP is the best thing Canada has given the world outside of maple syrup
by SuperDave on Jul 10, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Rotoworld
In regards to getting a contract extension with the Portland Trailblazers, Brandon Roy told a Seattle radio station that “for (him), it’s about 50/50.”
Roy also said that he would like to take a part in the Blazers’ recruitment efforts, adding “right now, I’m not playing much of any role. It’s kinda hard for me to go out and recruit Hedo Turkoglu for five years when I only got one left on my deal.” Whether or not he meant to strike at GM Kevin Pritchard’s credibility, Roy’s comments likely just put him on the hot seat. Since the general consensus is that Roy should have been extended already, these comments will point to the fact that Pritchard could (and should) have had Roy’s help in recruiting Turkoglu. Either way, it’s still hard to imagine Roy not getting an extension, but all is not well in Portland.
KP didn’t want Hedo
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 5:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
everything there made sense until your last sentence, which is just demonstrably false
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a little out of context...
He said, “There’s days where i feel like things will get done and then there are days that I feel like, you know … hey, this may not happen. So, for me, it’s 50/50 right now. You know, I would love for it to get done. Even when I was being recruited for college, I just wanted to get things done and start preparing. I’m hoping we can get things done and I can be involved in more things like free agency. Again, it’s a business and I have to just trust my agent.”
This is a young guy going through his first real pro contract negotiation. He may be impatient but we shouldn’t be.
Anyone who actually thinks we are not going to extend Roy and LMA hasn’t been watching the same team I have for the last few years. It’ll get done and done well. They’ll be in the Red & Black for a long time.
Keep the Faith
by Ilikeemall on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
they are negotiating a contract
> This is a young guy going through his first real pro contract negotiation. He may be impatient but we shouldn’t be.
Moreover, he is doing exactly as his agent told him to do: Complain loudly to the rabbit-eared press, who will dutifully print in their papers and talk on their bald-faced radio programs and point out how disgruntled Roy is over all this and why he’s certain to bolt for greener pastures.
It’s all about negotiating for a large deal. This might be the richest deal the kid ever signs. He’ll sign when it’s time to. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 13, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
Hedo makes no sense in portland
thats why he’s not here
by pdxlifer on Jul 10, 2009 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Given the efforts of both Nate and Kevin I seriously doubt he was wanted.
Driving up the price to spite Toronto, who is neither in our conference nor a contender is senseless.
VOTE CLOUDYDAYS
JUNK DRAWER 09/07/09
by The Pirate on Jul 10, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey cap gurus. what do you make of this from john hollinger…
Blazers can give Millsap 4 yr, $28 mil plus $6 mil bonus up front. But the cap figure would still be 7.7 million, so no extra tax for Utah
by Ben. on Jul 10, 2009 5:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
what he's saying is that
while the bonus money is front-loaded, the front loading doesn’t affect the cap number, which is prorated over the contract.
I think he’s saying it badly and wrong, though, because the bonuss still counts against the cap, just not all in the first year.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I also think he's wrong on the "what we can give him"
as we have 7.7 to start, and can escalate from there. 7.7 times four is more than 28, and with escalators and bonus money, that;s where you get to the highger 36 or whatever was being tossed about earlier
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
emailed you
the 28 is just the portion of the total that is “base” salary versus “bonus” money.
no matter how you slice the pie, you are still starting at 7.7 and adding 8 percent from there. this gets you to about 34.5 million. you can’t go higher than this no matter how much of it you want to make bonus money. the bonus money is not added to the total value, it’s just a part of the total value
said another way – the cap numbers and total value are always the same whether you have 0 bonus or 17.5% bonus – it’s all about WHEN the money is paid.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my figures are pretty close to what he said
4 yr ,$29 mil plus $5.1 mil bonus in my scenario.
by iverigma2 on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait so somebody explain:
Why is there optimism for Millsap now? isn’t he starter status? why would he be comfortable as a backup? how does this benefit our team?
by thetsaiguy on Jul 10, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he already said he's be willing to backup LA
and he fits the mold of what we said we need in a backup PF. (assuming we don’t just use the signing to force utah’s hand)
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but is he really?
isn’t that from that quick article everybody said was fabricated?
by thetsaiguy on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing was fabricated
everything Jason said in the article has borne out
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed, most of the reports we've blasted Quick for
Have turned out to be correct
Millsap? Check.
Blazers and Roy having trouble reaching an agreement? Check.
If some people here had a little less pride, perhaps they would admit they were wrong for calling for JQ’s head, as once again he’s shown he knows what he’s talking about.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially the Roy one
I totally had that pegged as JQ embellishing until I heard Roy speak today.
Taht said, I still think both Quick’s story and Roy’s comments today are agent-driven, but that doesn’t make them untrue, just unfortunate.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had to say that.
How else could he get an offer from the Blazers if he is not Ok of being a backup?
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
optomism because he's really good-- borderline all-star worthy when he started with Boozer hurt
He’s used to coming off the bench for Boozer. Definitely helps our team. Playing time would be an issue— but a 3rd good big would be critical if Joel opts out eventually.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all crazy talk. The Jazz will match, that's that.
Let’s enjoy summer league and see what the rooks got, because that is our new depth.
by Sonic Boom on Jul 10, 2009 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they do...
maybe they don’t. The hope here is that if Utah does blink, Portland gets someone better than Millsap via trade. or they just don’t match, and Portland gets a decent backup to LA.
And if they do, Portland lost nothing but a week of it’s time. It’s not like there’s alot else out there.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 10, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Oregonlive.com
KP has confirmed the deal and Millsap’s agent says he plans to sign the offer.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 5:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So much for all the BS about how nobody will ever sign for the Blazers unless we completely overpay them (which completely ignores the fact that Portland has signed many current players to reasonable deals in the KP era (Pryzbilla, Outlaw, Webster)), and the team hasn’t been in a position to actually sign a FA since the hellish reigns of Whitsitt/Patterson).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I&feature=channel_page
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 10, 2009 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty different though.
Millsap likely thinks Utah will match and he’ll end up playing there again. He’s not getting a better offer anywhere, so there’s no risk in taking the money.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
apples and oranges
Millsap is restricted, not unrestricted, so two main things:
1) Millsap likely thinks Utah will match
2) Millsap has no other options really. in RFA you take the best deal you can get. if he doesn’t take our offer, he has to crawl back to the Jazz and accept whatever they are willing to put on the table.
And on a note unrelated to RFA vs. UFA, we are now talking the difference between Salt Lake and Portland, which is nothing like the difference between either of those and Miami or New York or LA (or Toronto)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland has better garbage service than Toronto.
by MiledAnimal on Jul 10, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So how do you like your new condo, Mrs. Turkey-glue?
“sniff…sniff…eww!!”
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and lower taxes
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 10, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, because there is the chance that Utah will not match. For Millsap to accept the offer he would have to be cool with coming here.
I’m sorry but I refuse to buy the media line that “Portland has to overpay to get a free agent to come here”. If you want to lap it up then go right ahead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I&feature=channel_page
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 10, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
but it’s still a choice of Portland vs. Utah in that case, LA, Chicago, NY, etc. are not options at all.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies for saying “if you want to lap it up…” you are a very intelligent poster in here and I did not mean to infer otherwise.
All else being equal, Portland would have to offer more than a championship level team and a warm weather team (LA/Phoenix/Miami/Orlando, maybe a few others), and possibly more than a large market like Chicago or New York as well.
I just hate it when dumb sportswriters take it to a further extreme, like Portland is some sort of horrid place that requires a massive premium. Clearly that was not the case here, but clearly there is more to it than my simplistic assertion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I&feature=channel_page
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree completely
i didn’t take anything by the ‘lap it up’ comment, becuase I didn’t think t was aimed at me. im not agreeing with this perception, only saing that in this one case, its a choice of two “white, dull” cities in Portland and Utah, and that the “more exciting” cities aren’t currently in play at all. so that whole conversation is moot in the millsap case. i
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland is easier to sell once a players been in town for awhile
But Damon Stoudamire emailed Canzano last week and said that NBA players like bigger cities with multiple pro teams because it’s easier for them to move around freely
and find night life without drawing attention to themselves?
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto is terrible.
I don’t know where this idea that it’s a great place came from. That city’s as bad as LA.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not like LA in the good way (warm, sunny, pretty girls)
just a lot of boring pavement and roads.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Toronto. We went there on our 1st anniversary and found it to be a fantastic city. Clean, friendly, progressive and on the water. If my wife weren’t allergic to cold winters I would have been interested in moving there.
by danielfarrell on Jul 10, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don’t quite understand why we really didn’t go after Utah harder. We could’ve offered five years, more money, more signing bonus due to longer contract… and we didn’t.
Maybe we need Utah as a trade partner for another piece KP is after. I just don’ t quite get it.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
still struggling with this one myself. A 5th year would have been another 1.33 million in cash up front.
it just almost seems like they really don’t want to get Millsap
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy's being offered four, like stated above
How do you offer a new guy five and not Roy?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a good point
but Roy also has a year left on his deal, so his 1+4 would be 5 total, and this one is just a straight 5. so in that sense, is the same. a bit of hair-splitting, though
still, if the goal is truly to make the offer as toxic as possible, you add the 5th year and the extra 1.33 million in up front cash.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only things that make sense are
(a) we need Utah as a trade partner, like you mentioned
(b) Paul Allen was worried Utah wouldn’t match a 5/50+ deal and wasn’t willing to pay it himself, either
© Blazer brass believes that the signing bonus will scare the Jazz away from matching
I don’t know which of these it is (if any) but c seems the least likely.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm, I think it’s more a than c……….. it could be that there is more going on than we know. blech. so tired of this offseason.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this offseason has been a nightmare so far.
especially the part about Roy being upset even if its been overblown.
by jksnake99 on Jul 10, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s his agent appealing to the public. Smart move.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Brandon’s perceived discontent is probably agent driven. Agents are master manipulators and compensation is always a contentious issue when you work with top performers in ANY industry. Could a professional sports agent make a 24 year old kid feel slighted? Easily. Will Brandon Roy sign an extension with the Blazers? Undoubtedly.
(I see worst case scenario being Brandon getting pissed and we trade him for a CP3/DWill/Harris level point and Rudy starts… not likely)
by goonerluke on Jul 10, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really seems like a leverage move
they wouldn’t play along on the 3-way, insisting on Tyrus over Tim, which dominoed into the Bulls wanting Bayless over Blake. Essentially, they called our bluff on our threat to go after MIllsap (news of our impending millsap offfer was given out 2 days ago for a reason). Now we have to follow through on our thread to try and maintain leverage. But in the end, we probably really don’t want Millsap
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
could be. I still think that Chicago is a big problem.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
and I’d rather find a different piece than KH myself, but that is probably well known.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering how this offseason has played out, Blake for Hinrich would be a coup.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this point, yeah I guess
But 2 weeks ago, if we were all told the 3-year-in the making capspace 2009 plan would end up in a trade of Blake for Hinrich, we’d all have been at the PF with torches and pitchforks.
i guess im still holding out hope for something better. i think id still prefer rolling into the season and looking for better
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would’ve been pumped with Hinrich as the play.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
cap space 2009 plan that we’ve been salivating over for 3 years comes down to getting Hinrich, and you would have been happy all along? After everything that’s happened (and not happened) the past year, using this master 3 year plan of cap space to trade out Blake for Hinrich would have been fine as the #1 option? really?!?!?!??!? I think you would definately be in the minority on that one.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the true dream died with Darius’ money going back on the cap and the cap shrinking due to the economy. It’s only eight million in cap space. Grab a very nice point guard that complements the roster and let the kids grow. I’m happy with Kirk.
draft the stache
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this point, id settle for kirk given the debacles of the past two weeks. but to me we didn’t end up with plan A, B, or C. It’s more like Plan M or something.
It’s fine, but not what the buildup was all about. Reminds me of 1999 and The Phantom Menace. Only that was not fine.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it aged well though
and was MUCH better than attack of the clones, which I never imagined until years later.
oh wait, that wasn’t your point
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
in retrospect, TPM isn’t that bad. but if it was the best movie ever made, it coldn’t have lived up to the hype.
ATOC was an atrocity
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay I need a reality check
I don’t generally like to look for an explanation that is not readily apparent.
But for whatever reason I have the sneaking suspicion that this is a bluff that the Blazers never imagined would get called…and the whole toxic offer thing, etc. was more for show than anything else.
But, to keep his “cred” in the league, when the deal with Chicago fell through for Utah, Pritchard had to go ahead and extend the offer anyway, but didn’t want to go all out and offer something they couldn’t live with.
Crazy?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
by blazer91 on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think KP wanted to make sure the deal that Millsap was on was a tradeable asset. 4yrs is easier to move by far. The risk is we may not get him.
Better to lose him than to have an albatross contract that is untradeable.
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah
There’s some truth to what the Utah guy said but he got this one wrong:
“Why would Millsap want to go to Portland so that he can back-up Aldridge?”
Apparently Millsap is OK with that, because he signed on the dotted line.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he signed on the dotted line
because its the move that is going to net him BY FAR the most money. turning us down means he’s gonna have to settle for whatever Utah was willing to pay him.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy
“Is it time to worry about Roy yet?”
Depends whether or not you already have enough other things to worry about.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
correction
Correction, I guess he hasn’t signed on the dotted line, his agent says he is going to though.
But based on recent history you can’t take anything for granted.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hey
Hey, if Utah does sign, there should be one guy on the Utah squad who has fond feelings for the Blazers.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
good pont
good point Doug.
He only would have rejected the offer if he disliked the prospect of being a backup a lot more than he liked the prospect of making more money.
And that first year bonus- it may be toxic for Utah but not for Millsap.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ironic
NBA has rules to try to make teams competitive, but it is really looking like the league is emerging with a few “able to compete” teams and a bunch of “unable to compete” teams.
Only solace for the crappy and financially messed up teams I guess is that if they find some rookie players that turn out to be diamonds in the rough there can still be a way to get competitive.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Millsap
Well, we don’t know whether the Millsap thing will come through, but I think most people agree that if it does it is a lot better deal than the Turkoglu thing.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
just wondering
Hey, just wondering, do people spell it L*kers so that the obscene word screener doesn’t kick in and ###### it out?
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eeeexcellent
You ever get the feeling that KP is kinda like Blofeld in the Bond movies? Even after his master plan for destruction (Read: Turkoglu) is foiled, he always has some tricky little escape vehicle or route that lets him live to scheme another day. I feel like this Millsap offer is kinda like that jet-powered minisub that is hidden in the secret, sharks-with-lasers, lagoon.
by emc503 on Jul 10, 2009 6:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All I want is some frigging sharks with lasers.
Is that too much to ask?
by parkinglotj on Jul 10, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laser Eyed Robot Shark
A devastating power forward. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Jul 13, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question for douglast -
I’m confused. Does it say somewhere (I can’t find it) in Larry Coon’s Salary FAQ that the bonus is NOT in addition to the salary permitted by the cap? In #62 I see it says, "Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 20% of the total compensation (17.5% in offer sheets to restricted free agents …). And later it says that “This can create a problem if the player is signed with an exception or to the maximum salary”, and then follows the example calculation (similar to your calculation) to fit within an Exception.
But we are under the cap so we aren’t restricted by an Exception or the maximum salary provision. I don’t doubt that you are correct, but I can’t find where it says that the bonus isn’t in addition to the salary permitted when you are under the cap. It seem like “bonus” is a funny word to use to describe simply front loading the payment schedule without increasing the total payments.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2009 6:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
#62 pretty much covers it
Your right in that calling it a “bonus” is a bit misleading. There is no additional money allowed to be given over and above what you can give in a contract with no bonuses.
Best way to think of it is that it’s not about the total compensation at all, it’s about WHEN that money is delivered to the player. So, in the NBA, Bonus really means more cash now in exchange for less later. It’s like a payroll advance, without the ridiculous interest rates. ;-)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I'm quite willing to believe you are correct, but
I don’t see that interpretation anywhere in #62. It says “Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus …” It doesn’t say that the bonus is in the form of accelerated payments, and I don’t see why that would be assumed. It does say there is a potential problem when the bonus is given in connection with an Exception, but we aren’t dealing with an exception. I just don’t see anything in #62 that says the bonus isn’t over and above the cap restrained base salary.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to the source - the CBA
it’s not all laid out nice and pretty one section, you have to kind of piece it together. to paraphrase simplify:
1) one section lays out the bonus limits (17.5%) and how it prorated over teh contract length
2) another two sections talk about how player and team salaries are computed
3) Another section discusses how teams with “room” can operate in offereing contracts to other team’s free agents
you can kind of ignore 2, as that’s accounting. But once you figure out how (1) works, you then are still compelled to make that amount fit into what’s allowed by (3).
so, in essence, what limits us from making the bonus bigger is the fact that it would take us over the cap, and violate the rules for how teams with room operate.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 11, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did the same thing - went to the CBA itself.
Like you said there is no one section that provides the answer. The CBA can be pretty difficult to follow through all of the intertwined references. But as you said, it looks like the “bonus” is not a way to pay more than allowed in total by the cap, but rather to just reallocate the distribution of total dollars to different years. i.e. you can pay more in the first year than would have been allowed using the 8% per year increases. The use of the term “signing bonus” is very misleading, particularly if you read it in a newspaper as I did this morning. It would certainly imply to most readers that the player received additional monies when it says he got $32M plus a hefty signing bonus. But I agree it apparently doesn’t. One oddity I noticed is that a team can “add” a signing bonus when extending its own players. If the team is under the cap the “bonus” can be paid at any time during the contract, i.e. a higher portion of the total money could be delayed. In that case the “bonus” would penalize the player versus what he could have received without the “bonus”.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss and research this. I definitely learned something about the “bonus” that I didn’t know before.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 11, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
>90% that Utah matches...
I’d be SHOCKED if they didn’t.
Not that I want that to happen, far from it. Just sayin’…
by pdxrob on Jul 10, 2009 7:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I second your numbers. 90%+ is on the mark.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm an optimist
and I say 90%.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Jul 11, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Utah match?
Let’s cross our fingers. Millsap would be a nice upgrade.
by JimmieG on Jul 10, 2009 7:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Utah Will Match
Utah will match the offer and then make a trade to get rid of Carlos Boozer. Portland will help facilitate the trade …just how KP planned it.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 7:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agree.
Millsap will not be a Blazer. You don’t pay a backup that kind of money.
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure you do. See: Odom, Lamar — $11M.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jul 10, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
6th man candidate
you pay those guys more. Sometimes they play more minutes than one of the starters
Millsap is not in that category, but he’d be worth the money for the toughness he would bring in the post-season
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe instead of repeating exactly what the person or people above you said
we could just use the rec function. It’d save a lot of reading.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Jul 10, 2009 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Instead of complaining about previous posts unrelated to the topic at hand, you should accept this as a norm in internet forums and move on. Perhaps you will save me from responding and thus save a lot reading for other readers.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could repeat what you are saying
but hobobob told me not to. :{
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
over all this fuss about not signing Brandon and LaMarcus yet. I thought we needed to delay signing them until after we use our $ under the cap. Wouldn’t signing them now put us over the cap?
by dogbert on Jul 10, 2009 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
They’re extensions don’t kick in until 2010-2011. They’d still be on their rookie contracts this summer and this season.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Jul 10, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
signing LMA or Brandon to extension has no effect whatsoever on our cap space this summer. Both of them are already under contract for 2009-10 and any extension they receive will take affect on July 1, 2010.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jul 10, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utah
Utah holds the low cards, so whatever happens, be it Blazers acquire Millsap or 3 way trade, Utah will no doubt be the screwee.
Or, if Utah hangs onto Boozer and dumps him later, they can defer getting screwed till later.
by lsjogren on Jul 10, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
how about involving New Orleans?
a) they want to dump salary (Peja’s a bit expensive, but it could work with Chicago)
b) they always are willing to get screwed
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 10, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the idea with the Hornets
I’ll wait for the laughter to die down
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 10, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now
We have Utah’s balls in a vice grip. But Chicago is trying to tighten the clamps on us.
Bulls prefer Blazers’ Bayless in trade
Only way I do that is if we can get the rights to Rubio, or get Mike Conley jr.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If we sent out Bayless
We’d have too many white dudes in our back court. Blake, Hinrich, AND Rudy?
But really, I’d rather have Bayless than Hinrich.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a complete joke, right?
Pure homer talk right there. Simply ridiculous what some Portland fan’s think of.
Kirk Hinrich plays a high level of NBA defense, many coaches & smart fans are able to see that.
Jerryd Bayless, “plays defense” or at least everyone from Blazers edge thinks so. Too bad that means nothing, I have never seen him make a strong defensive play at the NBA level that I see Kirk do night in and night out.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless's Potential
Jerryd Bayless’s potential is much greater than Hinrich. In Hinrich, you get what you get.
by Balian on Jul 10, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential
Plenty of players have great potential. Some players are great. Hinrich’s wherewithal on defense as a rookie far exceeded anything I have ever seen from Bayless. Hinrich was always able to put it together on that end. That is why he got big minutes when he was a young player, same with Batum.
Bayless has not shown me he can effectively guard an NBA PG.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential?
How many years do I have to wait for “Potential” to become talent? When will “Potential” win us a championship?
by Sungari on Jul 10, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
But I assume it’s more than a players Rookie season.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I've long been an advocate for Hinrich
But there are limits. Please don’t imply I don’t know what I’m talking about..
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather have Mike Conley jr or Ricky Rubio over Jerryd Bayless
But Bayless over Hinrich sounds like you have not watched Bayless play since he left Arizona.
My defensive PG rankings in the NBA
Rondo
Williams
Billups
Rose
Paul
Harris
Parker
Hinrich
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOBODY has seen Bayless play
He didn’t get minutes. I want to give him a chance before I give him away.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't "get" minutes
Didn’t earn minutes.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
But he will be getting minutes this season. When he did play last year he looked good.
But I’m not getting in this debate. Hinrich is good, no question. He’s just not worth giving up Bayless. That, and in order for salaries to match we’d have to give up plenty more than just Bayless.
by GMan83201 on Jul 10, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He never looked good on defense.
Not once.
Patience :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jul 10, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs