For everything we hear about Nate/Nash wouldn't work

by darkhelmit54 on Jun 9, 2009 11:22 PM PDT

I find these two quotes very interesting.

Blazers coach Nate McMillan agreed. When asked to identify some of the NBA's toughest players, his answers were unexpected. The first name mentioned? Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns.

an Arizona Paper

And while there was certainly much to discuss regarding the veteran -- and plenty to dissect about woeful shooting and team hexes -- Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan singled out another painful catalyst behind his team's 102-92 loss to the Phoenix Suns before 18,422 at US Airways Center:

Steve Nash.

"I think the guy is Nash," McMillan said. "He is still orchestrating that offense and getting everybody involved and (regarding) time, score and situation, he is probably as good as I've seen. That guy is a two-time MVP. Shaq did some good things; all those guys did some good things. But that show runs with Nash."

Nash would get us a few more turnovers, but could still play off the ball as a shooter ala Blake in the half-court, Brandon would still be our iso guy, and Nash wants fewer touches/minutes as he age to preserve his career, and Brandon would have to carry less of the load (which is currently very unrealistic long-term) while getting some more easy buckets off cuts (which will benefit our other players once he learns).

Getting Nash would help us now, but long-term it'd help us a lot with Brandon's off-ball development and the development of our bigs with all the easy buckets they'd get. It'd also help the team learn how to sufficiently get easy buckets on the break for the long-term.

I'm not a proponent of Nash for the next 3-4 years, I'm a proponent of Nash and a prospect him behind him. It could be Jennings, Rubio, etc etc (though I think we'd have to give up Bayless to get Nash)

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I like Nash

but just because McMillan likes Nash doesn’t mean he’d fit, and doesn’t mean Nate thinks he’d be a good fit.

I do wonder if the Blazers had a point Nate trusted if he’d open up the offense.

I also wonder how much Nash really has left in the tank. I think he’ll be in the NBA for a while yet, and be productive. But he’s likely seen his last All-Star game.

by matthewcc on Jun 10, 2009 5:30 AM PDT reply actions

"I do wonder if the blazers had a point Nate trusted if he'd open up the offense"

Bingo.

He was telling them to run a lot more at the end of the season, but they simply don’t know how. Blake doesn’t do anything that’s not easily in front of him, he’s low-risk, all the time. But to the extreme. He can’t run a break, drive to the hoop, or make an entry pass.

by darkhelmit54 on Jun 10, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions

i wouldn't mind nash if he would be willing to sign for cheap

and be a backup point guard. Nash, Rudy, Webster/Batum, Outlaw (for now), Przybilla would be a lineup that does wonders.

This would allow for the team to extend his season since he would be playing slightly less a game and able to rest his ailing back more. He shoots over 50% from the three point line…so imagine what he’d shoot when he’s on the Blazers—which has been known to increase 3pt percentages of many players.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 8:41 AM PDT reply actions

Defensively

We will still have problem we have with Steve Blake, at a much higher price. If you look at last year when the only year where he played in Terry Porter’s mollasses offense(much like ours) he had one of the worst years of his career.

I would much rather have Andre Miller, instead of Nash or Jason Kidd. The money we would be spending would be better spent imo on Ron Artest who fits our window a lot better.

Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 10, 2009 8:44 AM PDT reply actions

Nate's offense is different from Porter's offense

because Nate wants the team to push the tempo and find a good shot early in the shot clock. If they can’t, then wait out the shot clock and create a good shot. With Nash, I’m sure more good shot opportunities will be available early in the clock.

Besides, if he starts, then Roy will be the one handling the half-court offense instead of forcing Nash—who would then relegate to being a 3-pt shooter…which he’s deadly from.

Only thing that bugs me about Nash is his spotty defense if any at all and his pricetag.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions

If Nate wants to push the tempo,

why do the Blazers rank 29th in pace? The Blazers are a slow, half-court team. Nash has a very difficult time playing in that system. Grant Hill said it was like “a hummingbird trapped in a plastic bag”.

“Besides, if he starts, then Roy will be the one handling the half-court offense instead of forcing Nash—who would then relegate to being a 3-pt shooter…which he’s deadly from.”

First, I think it’s too early in his career for Nash to play such a limited role in the offense. He’s a floor general and wouldn’t want to be relegated to simply being a spot-up shooter.

Second, if all you want is a guy to shoot the 3 without playing any defense or handling the ball, why don’t you turn Roy into a PG and just grab a SG (or just play Rudy next to Roy)? To put Nash in that position is just a waste of talent. It reminds me of my wife, who bought an iPhone and only uses it to make phone calls or take pictures of the cat.

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions

one of the main reasons we rank 29th in pace

is because we’re beastly on the offensive boards. The Blazers are deceivingly slow and like control of the game, but if the opportunities are there, then take advantage of it. And If Nate doesn’t want to push the tempo, then why does he keep screaming ‘push the tempo’ every time the point guard brings the ball up? Or why did he create the 20-second rule for his players?

Yes, I think it is also too early for Nash to be limited like that, but if he wants a ring, he’ll have to start sooner or later. That’s why I think it’s highly unlikely that he will come to the Blazers (read earlier I posted that he would be worth it if he accepts a lot less money and a limited role). And I agree with Royster below, Oden is not part of Nate’s offense for the most part while Shaq was their primary offense under Porter.

We do play Roy and Rudy a lot during the games, but Roy can’t play PG full time nor does he want to. We want someone who can handle the fast break, create his own shot, and bail out others with the 3 ball as well as play good defense. Nash sucks at defense, but is really good at everything else. Nash’s back is a major concern and realistically, he doesn’t have much longer.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions

we are also way behind at fast break points

by Falcao on Jun 10, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm definitely sick of hearing

about how the only trait of an offense is its pace. Denver and the Lakers played at almost an identical pace this year. Are their offenses that similar? Porter’s offense failed not just because it was slow, but because he rebuilt it around their third best offensive player. If you have Amare and Nash, does it make sense to relegate them your second and third scorers while you constantly feed Shaq in the post?

And for all the talk about how the “fast” offenses are inefficient and can’t win; sure, we had the “most efficient” offense in the league, but the two teams below us (Phoenix and LA) were in the top 5 fastest teams, and five of the top ten most efficient offenses were above average in pace, and a sixth (Dallas), was just below average. Also, both finals teams and three of the four finals teams were above average in pace over the course of the season.

It isn’t fast paced teams that lose, it’s bad teams that lose, and bad teams play faster because they take bad shots.

by Royster on Jun 10, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions

Nash is great

but he has a hard time playing in a slow-paced, structured half-court offense. He had incredible problems playing under Porter and wouldn’t do any better playing in the slower Blazer offense.

Also, his defense is horrible. If he’s defending the pick and roll, the big men are gonna pick up fouls quickly.

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 8:46 AM PDT reply actions

We got

Batum to help cover his deficiencies. And some bigs named Aldridge, Oden, and Pryzbilla. If we were to keep Outlaw logging minutes at 4 him and Nash together would be a defesnive nightmare, but as long as everyone else is sufficient (which they are except for Outlaw) I think we’d be fine.

by darkhelmit54 on Jun 10, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

Nash makes the bigs' job tougher

When Nash lets his man go by him, he allows a mismatch between a fast perimeter player and a slower big man. You don’t want any of the Blazer bigs trying to defend CP3, Parker, Rondo, Harris, etc. Usually this sort of mismatch leads to a layup for the smaller player or a foul by the big. Oden already gets into foul trouble enough already; you don’t want him cleaning up after Nash.

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Well

LMA is better than almost any PF I’ve seen at stopping PGs from driving up top. He gave Nash absolute fits when he had to switch on him. The problem is switching out Oden, but let’s be honest. Fast PGs will require a switch on the pick and roll. Oden needs to learn to run behind them and swat them someday.

by Zaig on Jun 10, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Oden also just needs to regain his leg muscles. The dude just started doing his first squats this offseason in over 2 years.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions

This is true

I’ve been an advocate of this stance for a while, but that doesn’t mean he should still be trying to stop guards 10 feet out.

This is what’s so great and what people like Simmons don’t seem to get. Rookies make silly plays and improve on it. Most rookies don’t improve their athlieticism by leeps and bounds though. Oden will not only get wiser his second year, but more athletic.

by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions

He will be more inclined

to be reunited with D’Antoni in New York. Nash/Robinson would be a nice offensive combo.

Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 10, 2009 9:12 AM PDT reply actions

I would happily trade Trout plus other assets for Nash

Nash would be an excellent way to use up our cap space. Obviously we’d have to let a PG go and I’m not sure I’d give up Bayless but I’d let Blake and/or Sergio go. Nash would clearly teach Bayless more tricks to complement what Nate woulc teach. Nash would get our team moving and our players already can execute well in a slow pace. Nash would speed their learning curve in the running game. I’d expect Nash to be good as a starter for 1 maybe 2 more years tops but could be a solid bench contributor for 3-4 years total.

As for Nash being tough, I am stuck with the image when he lost a tooth in the playoffs and how he just kept on playing. That embodied his toughness, nothing would phase him or knock him off his game.

by NWfan on Jun 10, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions

When I named the NBA's oldest players, Steve's Nash name also came up

I’d totally take Nash in my over 40 league tho

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 10, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions

Hey we could get Nash AND Duncan and have the toughest over 40 team ever

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 10, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions

I love pickles and Tabasco

Do I want them mixed into my ice cream sundae? No. Pickles and ice cream sundaes are two great tastes that don’t go together.

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 11:15 AM PDT reply actions

unless you're pregnant

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Jun 11, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Nash would rebel against this trade

based on his reaction to running Porter’s offense the first half of last season. – Elgin

VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.

by 22baylor on Jun 10, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions

I think

he might enjoy playing with some bigs who D up, and guys that aren’t a bunch of primadonnas. We’re a lot closer to a title than they are.

by darkhelmit54 on Jun 10, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions

you got a point there

If Nash and Nate are both for it, so am I. – Elgin

by 22baylor on Jun 10, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Really?

He plays most of his career with D’Antoni and Nellie without playing any D and suddenly he wants to start playing in a completely different system?

The only time he’s played under a defensive-minded coach with a slower pace (Porter), he’s been unhappy and his performance has declined.

What makes you think that he would change now? Because he’d play with blue-collar defensive-minded bigs? Sure, he’d like to play for a contender, but there are a lot more teams that fit the bill, that are more likely destinations. There’s no evidence that he wants to play here and wishing doesn’t make it so.

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions

Nate wants to pick up the pace a bit allegedly

We won’t be the single slowest team in the league next year.

ALSO

Isn’t our pace hurt be our insane offensive rebounding? I don’t think nba.com’s possessions per game counts an offensive rebound as a new possession. (Correct me if I am wrong here.) If they don’t, that means we are having more 40+ second possessions than anyone in the NBA.

by Zaig on Jun 10, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions

yeah, they count an offensive rebound as the same possession

if you look at the boxscore, we usually shoot a lot more FG attempts than the other team, shoot a lesser percentage, and still win. And out offensive rebound the the other team.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Even disregarding OR I doubt we're that quick of a team

But I doubt we’re 29th also. Just like we don’t have a top 3 offense in terms of efficiency if you ignore OR.

by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Is it possible? Maybe

Lloyd: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a girl like me… ending up together?
Mary: Well, Lloyd, that’s difficult to say. I mean, we don’t really…
Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Mary: Not good.
Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Mary: I’d say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Lloyd: So you’re telling me there’s a chance… YEAH!

by ninjasocks on Jun 10, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions

Dumb and Dumber!

by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm not a proponent of Steve Nash for anything other than color commentator on the CBC's new Basketball Night in Canada show...

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jun 10, 2009 1:57 PM PDT reply actions

If you made Sergio drink 6 vodka martinis and sent him out on the floor, THAT'S the defense that Steve Nash plays...

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jun 10, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Maybe Sergio is like the Drunken Kung-fu master of defense.

He sucks at it unless he’s intoxicated….time for experiment.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 10, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Sergio is a mans man when it comes to drinking

He’d have to have 15 before he felt anything. That’s why he entered the NBA, he needs a lot of money to afford booze.

by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions

and yet

he still has time to smoke all those cigs… the man is amazing.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Jun 11, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions

We can't touch Nash

He’s likely to re-up in Phoenix this year, for big bucks, at 35.

This is functionally equivalent of the Chicago guy coming in here hoping to get Oden from us, Phoenix isn’t about to part with Nash.

by baduk on Jun 10, 2009 9:17 PM PDT reply actions

with robert sarver

I really don’t see that happening guy.

by darkhelmit54 on Jun 11, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Nate- Nash wouldn't work

Even if we could acquire Nash, it wouldn’t work
Nash is not Nates kind of Point I don’t care what Nate said
He wants a large physical point, he would play Nash and he would dominate
He would always want a larger stronger point. Nash would feel that he wasn’t
loved enough and Nate might accidentally pull him quickly like sergio and then every thing would fall apart.

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Jun 11, 2009 5:49 AM PDT reply actions