6/5/09 Trade Drawer -Blockbuster edition
by boppitywop on Jun 5, 2009 9:20 AM PDT
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Looking at this rumor:
What's the opinion on:
Rudy, Trout, Blake, Bayless + draft pics for Rondo and Allen.
I'm not sure if the salaries match enough to fit our cap-space, we might have to sign and trade Frye also to make things work. We take on a huge contract for 2 years but get veteran support at the wing. We also get our point guard of the future. Sure we're losing talent and flexibility but we're getting the PG we need and a short-term replacement for Rudy.
I think this is a trade we do in a heartbeat. I'm would even do this trade with Batum instead of Trout.(although it will take more work to get the salaries to match).
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No way
Ray Allen is 33 and makes way too much. The Blazers would have to give up half the roster to match his salary.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/5/21/882137/a-primer-for-trade-analysis
Meh
Allen doesn’t work side by side with Roy that well. He would open up boatloads of craproom in 2 years or whatever, but until then, I’m not sure if we’re contenders.
Rondo would be money, but he is so cheap that Boston won’t ship him out without Allen probably, and that’s just not worth it.
Allen works well with Pierce
maybe he could work with Roy, although you would sacrifice size at the 3.
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related
lol
they actually are very similar. i think Ray Allen would be great on offense with Roy, and I mean GREAT. On D they would present problems, unless B Roy plays PG, so Ray Ray can play SG.
Not sure what the lol is for
But since you think it’s funny that I said these 2 are not similar, I will explain it to you.
1. Pierce plays the 3 and Ray Allen plays the 2. Getting Ray implies that Roy can play the 3 next to Ray. So I’m not sure why you decided to put Roy at the PG spot, when we have Rondo to play here according to this trade. Or do you want to bench Rondo? Maybe next time I will LOL the idea that we acquire Rondo just so Roy can start at the PG spot instead of him.
2. Roy and Pierce are not that similar. Let’s compare.
Roy is 6’6 211
Pierce is 6’7 235
Which one has a better SF body… you can’t possibly tell me that the 1 inch and 24 pounds doesn’t make Pierce much more suited for the SF spot. Also, Pierce’s go to move is posting up on a switch with Ray Allen. This let’s him take his turnarounds over pretty much any SG in the league. Roy’s go to move is not the post up. He uses his dribble to get him freedom for the open looks.
Pierce is also a higher volume shooter, who has never had a season with a shooting percentage that could match Roy’s this year. This implies that Roy is an outright better shooter (3pt% and FT% shows that he isn’t) or it implies that Roy has quite a different shot selection that Pierce.
Basically, they are similar in that they’re both all around good players who can score and still get some dimes and boards, but they go about doing so in different ways.
does this not imply that Rudy/Roy will never be a good fit either,
since Rudy’s role in our offense is similar to Ray Allen’s role for Boston (yes I realize that Ray has a much more diverse offensive game, with the ability to drive to the rim). But just in the sense that both of these guys are finishers, rather than creators off the dribble, I think they are very similar players. In which case Rudy/Roy wouldn’t work unless Roy had a similar style to pierce, or one of the guys could play pg.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
If Artest can say it, so can I. Broy>Kobe.
correct
if Rudy and Roy play together then Rudy is Ray Allen and Roy is Pierce. I think that’s a good comparison. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
lol
ur cute
The way that Pierce and Roy play are very similar. The fact that one is a SF and one is a SG dosent matter, they are both WING players, and wing players that play a similar game. The fact that Roy is more efficient means that Ray Allen would play even better next to him cause Ray could then theoreticly have mroe shots.
I forgot that the assumtion was that Rondo would be on this team, but what i said still holds true.
Also, Roy is not 211, no way in hell he is, I know what ESPN says but Roy is probably in the 220’s, that boy is thick. Also, Roy played a lot of SF on this team, I wouldn’t want him there all the time, but he has shown he can do it.
For a guy who just has a posted about finding more ways to start Rudy and Roy
It’s odd that you’d be so concerned about playing Allen and Roy together, given that Ray is basically just Rudy plus at this point in time.
ok This is the best deal I could come up with in short order
Allen and Rondo to the Blazers :: $21,871,782 in incoming salaries
Bayless 2,143,080
Rudy 1,165,320
Outlaw 3,600,000
Frye (sign and trade for $6million)
Raef 4,000,000 partial guarenteed contract
our #24 pick if needed or a 2nd round pick.
That is $16,908,400 in outgoing salaries
Making a difference of $4,963,382 which the Blazers can clear in cap space to eat.
This would save the Celtics about $5 million instantly, as well as another $4 million when they cut Raef, for a total of $9million in savings, putting them below the project luxury tax line. As far as talent on the court, i don’t think they could do much better than getting Rudy, Outlaw, Bayless, and Frye. All 4 of them would fit into the Boston offensive and defensive schemes, and make that team much younger, allowing Doc to rest KG and Pierce during the season more.
As for the Blazers, it would give them a unit that looks like
Rondo/Blake
Roy/Web
Allen/Batum
Lma/FA PF/Freeland
Oden/Joel
I believe the team could still sign a FA back up PF, and even bring Freeland over. Allen’s deal is over after the 2009-2010 season, which is when Roy’s and LMA’s deals would kick in, so the Blazers would retain the cap flexability with this deal, it is NOT a cap killer. But on the downside, I don’t think Allen or Roy can consistantly start at the 3, which may limit Allen’s effecitiveness for the Blazers. However this trade is for Rondo, who is a franchise PG in my opinion and worth giving up 3 very valueable, yet replaceable, talented players to get.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Wow
I can’t believe I missed this, but Allen would become a possibly very valueable expiring contract next season. At $19+ million, this could allow the Blazers to make a very big trade at or around the trading deadline next season, possibly bring in the SF this team is wanting.
I guess the point to me is, this deal still gives the Blazers tons of options going forward.
The 2010-2011 basic roster of
Rondo/Blake/new PG
Roy
Batum/Webster
Lma
Oden/Joel
Is still darn good, and their salaries won’t handicap the team to surround them with even more talent.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
A too big expiring contract becomes harder to deal. No team was interested ever in acquiring Marbury for his contract.
$10 million is a nice sum to trade as an expiring deal. The Mavs have two such players, and the Cavs also.
TO THE TRADE MACHINE!
Travis Outlaw
Steve Blake
Rudy Fernandez
Pick #24
For
Rodney Stuckey
Tayshaun Prince
Why?: It’s a tough sell but Rodney Stuckey could ease the load on Brandon Roy and give us two players that can handle the ball and create their own shot. We’d lack a "traffic cop" point guard that kept us in our offense (something Blake did well) but there’s also a chance we could convince Detroit to immediately cut Blake, so that we could re-sign him. Since his contract is only partially guaranteed, Detroit would gain cap space, pick up two talented young players (centered around Rudy) and stash a Euro with the #24 pick. Tayshaun Prince holds the Small Forward spot until Nic Batum is ready, and also gives us the flexibility to play a "skeletor" lineup of Stuckey – Roy – Batum – Prince – Oden/Zilla/Aldridge.
Why Not?: Not sure that Detroit is willing to part with Stuckey, although there has been rumors that Prince is available, and Stuckey is probably not an ideal point guard for Nate McMillan’s controlled half court offense. I see more negatives from Detroit’s side, but it would also be tough to see Rudy go…
Travis Outlaw
Sergio Rodriguez
For
Chris Duhon
Why?: Because Sergio belongs in New York playing under Mike D’Antoni, even though he can’t shoot nearly well enough to replicate the successes of Steve Nash… Travis is a moderately priced, versatile shooter who could also improve his game by playing ‘run-and-gun’… And Chris Duhon would give us a stable, strong backup point guard to direct traffic on the second line or possibly usurp Blake for the starting spot.
Why Not?: Chris Duhon is hardly a sexy pick up, compared to Mike Conley or some of the younger talent that’s been thrown around. Additionally, giving up both Sergio and Travis seems like a lot for a perennial back up playing in a system that naturally inflates your numbers.
Steve Blake
Sergio Rodriguez
Travis Outlaw
The rights to Petteri Koponnen
#24
For
Jose Calderon
Kris Humphries
Why?: Upgrade at point guard and pick up a solid back up power forward that is used to seeing limited minutes in a reserve role. This trade would fly if and only if the Raptors are committed to rebuilding and don’t foresee Jose Calderon as a viable long term option. Defensively, he’s not much to shake a stick (bigger body than Blake) but offensively, he would decrease the load on Roy, spread the floor, and give us a consistent 3rd scorer.
Why Not?: Calderon offers very little on the defensive end, and Kris Humphries may not be content as a backup long term.
Sergio Rodriguez
Travis Outlaw
Jerryd Bayless
For
Pick #5
Oly Pecherov
Mike James
Why?: I could be mistaken, but I believe Mike James got a buy-out somewhere along the line and should not be listed at $6 mil per year. However, if so, then we give the Wizards a little bit of cap flexibility long term, provide them with two alternatives to Gilbert Arenas at the point, and add some depth to their bench. The Blazers pick up a back-up banger in Pecherov and snag a top-5 lottery pick. If we held our breath and started vicious rumors about Rubio’s love of Man-Bear-Pigs, he might be available at #5. Or we could take another ‘Franchise PG Du Jour’ (Tyreke Evans, Jrue Holiday, Jonny Flynn, Tyler Hansborough, Tim Tebow, Brandon Jennings, etc). Conversely, it would be easy to parlay the #5 pick into some veteran help, but that would involve a second trade.
Why Not?: I hate Mike James and I don’t think another rookie point guard helps us much more than the combo of Blake, Sergio and Bayless will next season. In my opinion, there’s too much risk in this draft and, unless we were able to limit the amount of talent given up in trade, the risk-reward isn’t there.
Steve Blake
Travis Outlaw
For
Craig Smith
Brian Cardinal
Pick #6
Why?: Adds a very efficient and underrated banger in Craig Smith and the #6 pick (Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Jonny Flynn) at essentially the cost of Brian Cardinal’s terrible contract. Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake could wind up starting on the T-Wolves but more than anything would add long term cap flexibility on a roster looking to rebuild.
Why Not?: We’d need a 3rd and 4th scorer if we traded Outlaw and Blake, and I’m not sure Craig Smith is that type of player. From a size stand point, Smith is much thicker than Outlaw, but only grabbed 3.8 rebounds in 19 minutes compared to Outlaw’s 4.1 rebounds in 27.7 minutes. (Smith grabs .2 rebounds/minute while Outlaw grabs .14 reb/min). Smith scores about 10 points in the same amount of minutes (.53 points/min) compared to Outlaw’s 12.8 points (.46 points/min). The difference, however, is that Smith gets his points off of garbage baskets, and Outlaw creates his own offense when nothing else is going on… Brian Cardinal’s contract is horrible and may outweigh any gains from the #6 pick.
Steve Blake (or a signed-and-traded Channing Frye @ $3.5 mil/year)
Travis Outlaw
Jerryd Bayless
For
Mike Conley
Darko Milicic
Why?: Greg Oden gets his life long pal and the Blazers get a quick, young point guard who can spread the floor. Darko gives us another banger (albeit one with a terrible contract) and the cost, especially if we were able to include a signed-and-traded Channing Frye is just Outlaw and Bayless. In my opinion, this deal comes down to whether you’re a Bayless fan or a Conley fan, and there’s really no way to win an argument from either side.
Why Not?: Darko won’t see too many minutes behind Aldridge, Oden, and Zilla, which probably won’t be easy for a $7mil./year player to swallow. Also, there are probably some reservations to partnering Conley back up with Oden, in that part of your development as a player comes from growing on your own. Conley may actually act as a crutch for Oden…
Thoughts?
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 5, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
In option 5. does memphis release blake? and can we swoop him back up? and what are we doing with sergio?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
6th option sorry...
In option 6. does memphis release blake? and can we swoop him back up? and what are we doing with sergio?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
also on conley and oden relationship....
I’ve heard….. that conley is actually odens fire…. when oden skrews up Conley has no problems letting him know in such a way that it ignites oden…. or so I’ve heard but… rumor rumor rumor… but may be some truth.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Ohio State
I remember watching most of their games. Oden gets fouled out, in the tournament(Xavier). Game rests on Conley’s hands… He delivered, big time. That is what convinced me he was a “true baller” in the words of fatty.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Jason Kidd(FA)/Tyreke Evans(D) - Pick one
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D) - If we lose Rudy
Forward Options: Reggie Evans(T) - Taj Gibson(D), Damion James(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 5, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Evans/Stuckey
Is McMillan’s ideal PG, whether or not they can play in his molasses offense doesn’t matter. Same situation as Bayless really, except with McMillan loving the guy he is developing.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Jason Kidd(FA)/Tyreke Evans(D) - Pick one
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D) - If we lose Rudy
Forward Options: Reggie Evans(T) - Taj Gibson(D), Damion James(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 5, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Two things, usmcr3049
First, a minor technicality. The Blazers could never get below the cap and do this deal. How can you use Bird rights to sign and trade Raef and Channing when you’ve renounced them in order to get below the cap? The trade still essentially works – it’s just that the Blazers never go below the cap. You’d have to sign-and-trade Raef for closer to $5 million and then use the exception that let’s you take back 125% + $100,000 of outgoing salary.
Secondly, a significant technicality. Raef’s contract (and Frye’s) have to be for at least 3 years with the first year fully guaranteed. So no cutting Raef by Boston and getting cap relief.
I knew there would be some kinks in the deal
But I also believe it was doable in some way.
When talking about cutting Raef, I guess I should have been more clear, because I was thinking of Boston cutting him after 1 year, and realizing the savings then. Or ofcourse the Blazers could sign him to a 1 year deal worth what they needed, ($5million you say) with the intention of Boston buying him out fo the contract and waiving him, I would think Raef would do it for about $1million, which would give boston another $4million in instant salary cap relief.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
wow
I really dont believe this at all. If this happened KG would kill Danny Ainge.
I saw that on SI this morning as well.
Those truth and rumors tend to be more often rumors generated to spark interest than actual truth. Rondo is cheap and plays good defense. He can’t shoot from the outside, but that’s not really a problem.
Allen’s salary is an albatross and where would he play? Is he going to be a happy camper off the bench?
Maggette?
KP helps the Warriors save a ton of future salary, trades Travis and Sergio for Corey Maggette in a lopsided deal for cap space and in a second deal acquires Brandan Wright for a future pick to be absorbed with our trade exception. Maggette can play SF/SG and while he has an ugly contract is the slasher and foul drawer we don’t have at the position, and Wright at 6’10’’ can play PF/SF.
He also gives Portland
one of the premier floppers who can be used strategically to foul out the opposing team’s best player.
Why would you like Magette?
It definitely helps the Dubs drop a mistake, but I dont see what he brings to the table for the Blazers outside of coming off the bench, getting fouled and then being injured for long periods of time.
As far as getting Wright, it seems like there would have to be some under handed shenanigans going on for us to get him for our trade exception. I think it would be seen as some sort of unwritten addition to the first trade. He could be a nice piece for the Blazers, but I am not sure how the league would look on this.
Also, is there anyway to get Turiaf in these scenarios? He seems like a good fit for a backup PF.
Can you imagine Travis on the Dubs? He would play 4 positions every game. Hilarious.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
coming off the bench, getting fouled and then being injured for long periods of time
Yeah, we don’t need a SECOND player like that.
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
He has a 5 (or 4) year contract
Which sucks because he would be a great, great fit at SF for our team.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jun 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No more jump shooters
please. Portland needs a banger off the bench a Ron Artest type enforcer on this team.(not him neccesarily)Portland is built well for the reguler season but when the gloves come off in the playoffs were still behind the curve in physical toughness. I hope we are looking at a player like Millsap, Chris Anderson etc.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
While I think most Blazers would love Millsap or Anderson
I can’t see this team being able to sign them or trade for them. Rondo is not a jump shooter, and while Allen would be included, Rondo would be the talent in such a trade I would have to believe. The Blazers could make the trade that Storyteller helped me figure out how to make it work above, and still have their midlevel exception to sign the banger you and many of us long for to back up LMA. I don’t think they have to be mutually exclusive.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I'd happily take ron ron on our team....
being a not so bright guy, I’ve had my fair share of run ins with the authorities of pretty much any given orginization….
now given the orginezaitiototototootn…. federal>state>tribal>individual I’ve been one to press the rules to breakage… BUT… have always learned from my experiences. and after I’ve found the limit to the bending, I very rarely tempt the “edge” again…..
what I’m sayin is…. ron has had his learning exp. and…. I think he’s learned his lesson… not that he ever should have had to, but ….. it’ll never happen again, and won’t ever come close to that….
has he ever hit anyone since? :) (removing foot from mouth if he has)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
I keep thinking back to that downy brook that Artest was in, it secured his rep in the league. Love em or hate em players for sure respect his tough guy image.
I would just be a little worried about him thinking he was the offensive force he thinks of himself as.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
coach Mcmillian,and coach Lucas coupled with the power of fandazzle of KP...can temper all offensive outbursts from a ron ron.
I’m sure his role will be explained to him. and if not, KP will find him a happy home to shoot till his hearts content (cough trade for durant for a better hucker)
na but I think he’s at a point where he’ll be …. coachable.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
I don't see Ron giving up any shot attempts
Nope, none. Houston is willing to live with this – I doubt the Blazers would be.
I am glad that he’s found a home. I don’t think he wants to leave Adelman’s side. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
My only question.
Outlaw takes 10 shots a game(27mpg, 12.8ppg), Artest(35mpg, 17.1ppg) takes 15 shots per game, average from last year.
With his better rebounding, passing(3.3apg VS Outlaw’s 1apg) steals, most of all his defense along(+ the added benefit of that type of defense possibly rubbing off on other players). I think he would raise the level of everyone’s play & think it is a much smarter move to spend 10 million per year on, rather then Kirk Hinrich. Artest is worth it.
You give Artest the 10-9-8 million per year, 3 year deal. Still leaves you free to do additional moves just the same as the Hinrich trade.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Jason Kidd(FA)/Tyreke Evans(D) - Pick one
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D) - If we lose Rudy
Forward Options: Reggie Evans(T) - Taj Gibson(D), Damion James(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 5, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
this rumor has been shown
to be pure conjecture.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
Allen and Nate didn't get along too well
There was a rumour to the effect that Allen helped move Nate out.
Plus this could be the same mistake Chicago made when it signed Wallace.
I think the meat of the trade would be rondo for me anyway,
and allen just a new rlec for kp to ..tot around as a chip he’d like to play. dunno nothin though.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Yeah Allen is a nice short term piece but
Rondo is the important meat of the trade. If Allen is just good and professional and plays at the level that would be expected of a 33 year old declining star that would enough.
We would end up doing some mix and matching but the line-up would be
PG: Rondo, Blake, Roy
SG: Roy, Martel, Allen
SF: Allen, Batum, Martel
PF: LMA, Free Agent/MLE, Freeland or draft pick
C: Pryz, Oden
We fix our point guard problems. We get enough players together to cover SF, and we lose all our rotation and development minute problems with enough minutes for everyone.
In two years we hope that Batum has developed enough to be the starting SF. We just need to pick up and develop a back-up SF or SG. We have a line-up that would be guaranteed deep play-off runs for a long time and that we could keep together for a very long time. Our only question would be how to replace Pryz and Blake in 5-8 years when they are ready to retire.
Of course it would be bad for Blazer’s Edge as we’d have to spend our offseason speculating about 3rd string point guards and centers to round out our line-ups.
As I remember it
Nate left Seattle, Seattle didn’t fire him or not want him back, infact I’m pretty sure I remember Seattle media and fans outcry over him leaving. Nate wouldn’t leave because of a player, especially leave only to join what has to be one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA in terms of player behavior toward a coach.
The difference between what Chicago did by signing Wallace, and this trade, is Rondo. He is the centerpiece, Allen is a throw in for all purposes, and his contract is up after next season, where as Wallace’s contract is an epic example of spending money just to spend money. That deal handicapped the Bulls for 2 or 3 years before he could be traded to the Cavs. This trade wouldn’t do that at all.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Yeah Allen swooped in and paid Mcmillan
Nate is a money man if we don’t pay him he will leave
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 5, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Man
Beantown would tar and feather Ainge if he did that trade. A bunch of bench guys for a top 5 pg…just isn’t going to happen.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
If Artest can say it, so can I. Broy>Kobe.
Would Allen demand starts?
Offseason:
PG Options:(T)Mike Conley Jr/(FA)Jason Kidd - (D)Rodrigue Beaubois/Toney Douglas
SG Options: (DDT)Terrence Williams
SF Options:(FA)Ron Artest/(T)Tayshaun Prince
PF Options:(DDT)DaJuan Blair/(T)Reggie Evans/(T)Carl Landry - (D)Taj Gibson, (D)Damion James, (D)Kevin Seraphin
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