In defense of David Kahn

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 30, 2009 8:00 PM PDT Comment 22 comments

Warning - this is a completely biased and poorly researched opinion that probably has already been made, but I have to say it anyway because I'm tired of hearing the chucklehead viewpoints.

(note - by "biased" I mean that I used to work on the Oregon Stadium Campaign and I thought David did a terrific job at managing a thankless and ultimately impossible (once DC finally stepped up to the plate) task of trying to bring MLB to Portland.

All I hear in the press is how Rubio hates cold weather, and the T-Wolves were stupid getting two point guards, etc.... without realizing what they gave up to get the fifth pick in the first place. Randy Foye is a nice player but he was unnecessary with their mix of guards, and he was always going to be associated with the BRoy trade, and losing Mike Millers contract was addition by subtraction. In exchange, they soaked up a few spare parts and picked up a guy who is going to be a STAR ATTRACTION WITH A CHEAP ROOKIE CONTRACT, and they can stash the guy overseas until he gets so desperate to play for the NBA (and you know he will) that he'll accept a trade anywhere.

In my mind Rubio has become as valuable as a #1 pick in the draft and his value will only go up in the future. He won't sign with Minnesota? Big whoop.

Kahn scored a coup, and most of the MSM is too stupid to figure it out.

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I think I agree. Time will tell. If he's smart he'll wait to trade Rubio when an absolute steal comes knocking.

by dario argento on Jun 30, 2009 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Took the best player available ...

and maybe the best player of the whole draft. Nothing to fault him on. I might have gone with Curry with the second pick, and I think he could have gotten players who could help with their lower picks as well, but whatever. He got the best player and that’s all that matters.

"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez

by bfan on Jun 30, 2009 8:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kahn's sin wasn't drafting Rubio

In essence, he was essentially forced to take Rubio having both the fifth and sixth picks. Rubio was simply too valuable to pass on twice. Where he screwed up (maybe, because he might have worked something out that needed to wait until 7/1 to complete) was not doing the leg work to have a deal ready for Rubio beforehand, knowing that they were going to take Flynn with one of their two picks.

Once they took Flynn, it instantly devalued Rubio because opposing GMs knew that the Wolves couldn’t play them both. The two of them were considered possibly the two “purest” PGs in the draft (unlike, say, Curry), so it makes no sense to put them alongside each other, especially with Flynn’s size forcing the issue. That’s why you have the deal worked out beforehand so you don’t tip your hand with Flynn.

Either Kahn didn’t see Rubio falling to 5, or he just didn’t realize what Flynn would do to Rubio’s trade value, but either way, this hasn’t been handled especially well.

by Royster on Jun 30, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

also flynn was just a bad pick in general

Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin

by Zaron5551 on Jun 30, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I “get” the pick of Flynn, though it’s fair to debate whether Curry would have been a better pick. (Actually I think Flynn would be a great “culture fit” here in Portland but that’s a sidebar)

Where I’m not following your logic is why you think Kahn needed to have a deal worked out beforehand. The bottom line is that they traded Foye and a bad contract for an appreciating, not a depreciating, asset. Kahn can sit back and let the offers come in – what’s the rush? It’s quite conceivable that in the next 1-2 years, Rubio becomes MORE valuable than many of the players available in the “summer of LeBron” simply because he will get butts in the seats and he will be on a cheap rookie contract.

Here’s another way to look at it – the T-Wolves will certainly more than Foye + Mike Miller’s contract in exchange for Rubio. So that’s a win in my book.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 30, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was still a good deal, sure

but I don’t buy that Rubio is a constantly appreciating asset. The best player outside of the US will probably never come here (Splitter). It’s entirely possible that over the next couple years Rubio signs some huge deal with a spanish team with an even bigger buyout and gets locked in over there. Is Rubio really going to be as valuable as a 23 year old as he is now as an 18 year old oozing with potential? Regardless of what he does in Spain over the next couple years, there will always be questions about him adapting to the NBA game in his first year or two.

In sum, no one’s beating down the door to trade for Fran Vazquez.

Getting Rubio was a good deal, definitely, but his handling of the situation since then has been underwhelming.

by Royster on Jun 30, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

bigger buyout unlikely

i highly doubt Rubio and his dad get duped again on that line of the contract

by KraigEriginal on Jun 30, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not, but he's still locked into the rookie scale

If a European team throws a bigger contract his way with correspondingly large buyouts, there’s a good chance he takes it. Guys like Splitter, Vazquez, and probably Ibaka will almost definitely never play in the NBA before age 30 or so (think Scola), because they make more money in Europe than they could here. If Rubio is making $8-9 million in Spain (Childress money), would he give that up for 4 years of making $4 million a year, and THEN the possibility of a raise?

by Royster on Jun 30, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, he would. Rubio´s dream is to play in the NBA. He said so.

by amlmart1 on Jun 30, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree in the sense

that I’d be shocked if Rubio never made it into the league, I just don’t buy that his value is guaranteed to keep increasing over the next few years. Lots can happen: another injury, a few setbacks, he doesn’t develop as quickly as people thought. He holds a lot more value as an 18 year old phenom than he would as a 20 year old. It’s not like anything’s changed in the last week with his buyout, so that shouldn’t be what’s motivated the recent talk of staying in Spain when he was gung ho about coming over before the draft. If a team wants him to come over and be their PG, all signs are that he’d come over this year.

And regardless, what’s the best case for Minny if Rubio stays in Spain: Flynn plays great and locks down the PG spot? Doesn’t that put them in even more of an awkward situation with having to trade one of them?

by Royster on Jun 30, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but is that such a bad risk?

Miller and Foye are not a huge price to pay for a chance at a big payoff down the road.

And like I say below… so they past on some guys that would have gone in the late teens the last couple of years, whoopty doo. They didn’t pass on anything special, but they put themselves in a good position to make a special move at their convenience.

by matthewcc on Jul 1, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In defense of Ricky Rubio...

I don’t think I would pay a $6M buyout of my ACB contract (essentially playing for free for 2 years in MN) to come to a team with no chance of winning and a team which has no idea how they intend to use 2 rookies who can only play PG.

You can argue that Kahn drafted the 2 best players available. You can argue that he gave up very little to get a #5 pick. But Kahn has to move one of those 2 PGs eventually for value or the situation is a disaster. Until it happens, fans will wonder if someone else could have helped them win a few games instead of just having a good trading chip.

by 52therim on Jun 30, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with Royster

It was a bad pick because they weren’t prepared for it. They thought Rubio would be gone (I’m guessing at #4 to Sacramento) and Evans would be available at #5. When that didn’t work out, they didn’t have something worked out to move the guy they hadn’t planned to get, Rubio, to a team that valued him.

And this isn’t a Danny Ferry situation, where he has to try and find an overseas contract. Rubio is already in one, and it’ll cost him major bucks to break it. So why should he? He doesn’t want to play in Minnesota and fight Flynn for minutes. If he plays out his current contract, it’ll save him $6M when he does come over.

There’s one more thing: Rubio is holding all the cards. No team will take him off Kahn’s hands unless they are sure he will come over right away. Kahn has no control over that, it’s entirely up to Rubio’s people. Ricky wants to play in the NBA, so he can hold out for a trade to a team that will actually give him minutes. This is why Portland couldn’t possibly be that team, Nate’s not going to start a creative, flashy, turnover prone rookie, even one who plays defense.

by baduk on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I question Kahn's basketball acumen.

No problem with Ricky Rubio at #5. I don’t think there’s any doubt the kid has talent and potential, and he was most likely the best player available at that juncture of the draft. Now when Kahn takes another PG at #6 in Flynn, this is where criticism is warranted.

Kahn is preaching the two PG future in Minnesota. There are only two scenarios at work here. Either he is lying or he is delusional.

Scenario One
Kahn is lying about the dual PG future to keep their leverage to trade Rubio or Flynn. He doesn’t want their trade value to erode if teams know the Timberwolves are forced to trade one of the two PGs. Not only is he misleading the Timberwolves fanbase and the rest of the NBA, but he is also lying to Rubio and Flynn with his public statements. This is a delicate situation with both Flynn and Rubio. Misleading both PGs about the the future of the team is a death knell to his GM career. It breaks his trust with his players and his fanbase. He has repeatedly said that he is not trading either PGs and will wait out Rubio’s buyout.

Taking Kahn’s word at face-value.

Scenario Two
Kahn is delusional about playing Flynn and Rubio together in the backcourt. They are both PGs who need the ball to make plays. Flynn may be a scoring PG, but he is a PG who usually creates scoring plays by himself, not off the ball. Rubio, of course, has always played with the ball in his hands. He is the offense. Both Flynn and Rubio cannot shoot from the outside. There will be no passing lanes or space when both guards can’t hit the 3-ball to spread the defense. It is difficult to imagine a backcourt of Flynn and Rubio succeed in the NBA. No spacing on offense and mismatches every night on defense.

Kahn will also struggle to sell his 2-PG vision to any prospective coaching candidate. I doubt any veteran coach will buy his vision and I don’t think the coaches looking for an opportunity to prove themselves will go along with it.

"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith

by blzrfan on Jun 30, 2009 10:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Their problem wasn't taking Rubio

It was taking Flynn immediately after without any sort of notice to either guy or plans in place on what to do.

Rubio has an unusual amount of leverage for a drafted player, and we’ll have to see if Kahn has the stones and the sense to handle it properly

by dprodigy19 on Jul 1, 2009 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree about the plan

The Timberwolves have a lock on Rubio now. They are in no hurry.

It seems clear to me they are going to continue to hold his rights until they get just the right offer. Consider Rubio going back to Spain and lighting it up for a year driving his value up even more.

He’ll be 19 years old next summer. Minnesota can see what offers come in then.

If they still aren’t blown away, they wait another year. There is no more buyout. He’s still only 20 years old.

No matter WHAT the Timberwolves say, they did not draft Rubio to play PG for them. That’s what they drafted Flynn for. Rubio is a long term investment, and all they had to do was give up Foye and Miller. Miller hated MN and Foye was solid but nothing special.

Also, so they passed up Hill and DeMar DeRozen. Let’s not all of sudden forget how weak this draft is considered. Turning Foye and Miller into, say, Gerald Henderson is pretty blah. Turning him into one of the best trade chips in the league? That’s a swing for the fences, and really not a costly one.

The Wolves are, for once, playing the long game. I like fireworks as much as anyone but smart is not synonymous with immediate. Even as this summer goes on, trade opportunities will increase from draft day as sign-and-trades become available.

Kahn will ultimately be judged on what he turns Rubio into. I think jumping to judgement already is silly. If it was KP and he did the exact same thing we’d all be falling over ourselves about what a brilliant strategist he was, how his light shines brighter than the sun, and how he wouldn’t have taken the Grand Armee into Russia.

by matthewcc on Jul 1, 2009 1:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Also, so they passed up Hill and DeMar DeRozen. Let’s not all of sudden forget how weak this draft is considered. Turning Foye and Miller into, say, Gerald Henderson is pretty blah. Turning him into one of the best trade chips in the league? That’s a swing for the fences, and really not a costly one.

Exactly!!!!! There was no Brandon Roy available at the #7 pick, so turning Foye and a bad contract into a swing for the fences pick was a very shrewd move.

Time will tell, obviously.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 1, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And to think we might have been able to acquire Rubio

We could have traded Outlaw for Mike Miller.
Also if we would have drafted Foye instead of Roy, we could have traded miller and Foye for Rubio.

Rubio
Rudy
Batum
Aldridge
ODEN

Wow that team wins 15 championships like ODEN wanted. Hey minnesota might even be dumb enough to trade Rubio for Roy, this has life.

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Jul 1, 2009 1:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

if you go that route

The Blazers could have/should have traded with Washington to get their #5 pick. Foye and Miller? How about Bayless and Outlaw, they are cheaper and just as good if not better.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jul 1, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Timberwolves have 2 years to trade Rubio

Time is on their side.

by tominhawaii on Jul 1, 2009 4:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kahn

I think Kahn picked up a couple players that I viewed as solid…. Obviously, going PG and PG in the first round at those pics is troubling.

I would have liked to seen them take a guy maybe like Stephen Curry or Jordan Hill. Jonny Flynn is good but if you read the recent SI article about PG’s in the draft, they go ahead and talk about the value of high pics, etc.

That being said, the biggest boom/bust pick in this draft who has the potential to be a star along with Blake Griffin is Ricky Rubio. The guy was lights out in the Olympic.

Going balls deep at the PG guard position is a little confusing especially since Khaaaaaan doesn’t have a deep basketball background.

"Oh yeah? You can Derelique my balls."

"I can Shavlick my own balls."

by Terry Gamble on Jul 1, 2009 8:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Kahn a good evaluator of basketball talent?

Back when he was a sportswriter for the Oregonian, the great Kiki Vandeweghe fued was going on. Paul Allen had just bought the team, Kiki was starting to look old, Bowie was coming back from one of many broken legs, Drexler was busy feuding with coach Mike Schuler, Steve Johnson was unhappy losing minutes to Kevin Duckworth, it was a mess.

Kahn bet on the wrong horse here. He was an advocate of Kiki at the 3, benching Kersey, and starting Bowie ahead of Duck. Obviously, that didn’t happen—Kiki got traded and was never the same player in New York; Bowie was traded for Buck Williams. End result: Blazers next year were in the NBA finals. Didn’t hurt that the incompetent Schuler got canned and replaced with Rick Adelman, who is still one of the league’s best coaches—Even If He Never Won A Ring.

Somebody at the O, I think it was Kahn but am not 100% sure (I’m not willing to pay $ to do the research; his columns from that era are behind a paywall at O-live) actually called for fans to BOYCOTT the Blazers for the temerity to start Kersey ahead of Kiki.

In Indiana as GM, he was primarily a business guy, not a basketball guy. He reportedly brough Isiah Thomas into the organization, though Isiah did not have the negative rep he currently enjoys.

He’s run a few NBDL teams; though at least one of those teams, the Fort Worth Flyers, moved to Nevada under Kahn’s watch—and there are numerous reports of local vendors getting stiffed—though apparently, that was settled.

It will be interesting to see how David Kahn does in Minnesota, but this strikes me as more of a John Nash hire than a Kevin Pritchard hire.

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by EngineerScotty on Jul 1, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs