So let's assume it's Hedo

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 3:25 PM PDT

This may all be moot tomorrow, but what the heck. Let's try and play catchup here. Assume the offer KP is going to make tonight is to Hedo, and that he accepts (obviously won't be official yet, but that's just academic). Where does that leave our lineup. My assumption is that Hedo gets about half his minutes each game at PF - so there's our backup to LMA right there. Let's see:

PG: Blake 24, Bayless 18, Roy 6
SG: Roy 28, Rudy 20
SF: Hedo 16, Batum 20, Rudy 12
PF: LMA 34, Hedo 14
C: Greg 30, Joel 18

Totals - 9 man rotation:
Blake 24
Bayless 18
Roy 34
Rudy 32
Hedo 30
Batum 20
LMA 34
Greg 30
Joel 18

First off, Hedo pretty much eats up all our capspace, so any other additions must come through trade or minimum contracts.

But second, notice who's missing? Martell and Travis. Obviously you can sub Martell in for Batum if you like, but either way we have 2 extra pieces who should be used in a trade rather than letting them wilt on the bench. Or 1 extra piece if Martell isn't ready to go come fall. So, is the plan then to use Blake, Travis and either Martell or Batum as trade bait for a new PG, either in a straight up trade or a sign and trade? It would seem to make sense to me. That's going to be 8.7 to 12.5 million outgoing salary - enough to bring in almost anyone we could want, assuming we can find a willing trade partner.

So, if Hedo's the guy come 12:01, hopefully this post helps illustrate the logical next step.

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Comments

Wow... how can you have all the assets we have and not address the backup 4 spot?

We still have no banger.

by as11osu on Jun 30, 2009 3:30 PM PDT reply actions

I hear ya

but personally, my focus would be on starting PG above anything else.

But think about it, if we are getting Hedo, I have to think we are committing to play him fairly substantial minutes at the 4. Either that or we are shipping out a bunch of SFs. It makes no sense to keep 2 other SFs if Hedo is going to get 30+ minutes at that spot.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions

don't want no hedo

just say no to turkeyglue

by lurtsman on Jun 30, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Pendergraph is kind of a banger right?

Good thing we passed on Blair three times even though the second and third times came with basically no risk if we find out he can’t play.

D’oh.

by AndrewD on Jun 30, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Pendergraph?

by JordanLeDoux on Jun 30, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions

If Oden can up his lateral quickness we could see him at the 4 with Przy

Oden and Przy could each be playing close the 30 minutes.

by Escrote on Jun 30, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions

The offense would be completely bogged down with Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla on the court ...

at the same time. Except for a few spurts here and there for short minutes, those two shouldn’t be out there simultaneously.

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah, that's a no go

neither guy can shoot outside of 1 foot of the basket. that isn’t going to work

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions

joel and oden together is strictly a novelty act

ignacio

by ignacio on Jun 30, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, it's a "novelty act" that'd quickly wear thin.

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions

We still have no banger.

KP and the scouts seem to prefer “length versus strength” (at least when they draft one skinny Euro prospect, per season)

Hopefully Pend and DC pan out, but playing rookies in the playoffs is dicey, at best

Jeff Foster and Bruce Bown: fixes the missing “banger” issue and adds veteran playoff experience

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions

what about martell?

I’m really of the belief that we can’t go into the next season with three small forwards, need to get rid of one and in this scenario you have webster, who could have a great season, playing zero minutes. fine going into the season with any two of the three SFs we have right now, but poit guard is the important position

by StocktonNEP on Jun 30, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions

that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

If we sign Hedo, then Outlaw is certainly gone. At that point you also have to assume that either A) Martell’s injury is worse than we think or B) Martell or Batum in getting moved in a package for a PG and/or PF

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions

If we do this and don't dump 2/3 of our small forwards for improvement in the 1 & 4 I will be mad.

by staylost on Jun 30, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions

exactly

that’s what signing Hedo tells me – Outlaw plus either Martell or Batum is on the way out

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Batum is going no where

same with Martell as he is still injured. So that leaves only Outlaw to be traded.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Jun 30, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions

right, but...

then what do we do when Martell is healthy? where does he play?

If we do indeed sign Hedo, then that is telling me either Martell injury is going to keep him out quite a bit longer, or else Batum or Webs is getting shipped out. It just doesn’t make sense to keep a healthy Martell AND Batum behind Hedo – one of them won’t be playing at all.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Trade deadline.

By then we’ll have it figured out as well. We know we don’t necessarily need the banger to win 54 regular season games. So, say we did sign Turk. The fact that Martell is injured makes it a given that he will be here and I’ve read enough to be convinced that Batum isn’t going anywhere. So that leaves us with all three.

I would add Martell to the two spot mix as well as SF and let’s see who ends up earning the most playing time between Turk, Batum, Webster, and Rudy. Then we would really know who fits and who doesn’t and we can make a much more informed trade at or before the deadline. Of course, if Turk doesn’t pan out he will be tough to move with his shiny new contract and all, but for sure I’d rather see a healthy Webs/Batum/Rudy in action together on the same team before I trade any of them.

I think the keys to us really becoming a championship contender over the next season or two is going to be our ability to show restraint and have patience. We shouldn’t be in a hurry to make our team over into a championship contender THIS SUMMER. It would almost assuredly backfire (face it Blazer fans, we just aren’t that lucky).

That being said, I am definitely more in the camp that if we do make a big, expensive upgrade it should be at the point. I’d be more willing to give up Bayless at this point than Rudy or Batum, especially for a big-time PG.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions

great comment

I agree with you on the patience part – when it comes to our SF rotation. I say we should start the year with a SF rotation of Batum/Webster/Rudy and see how it pans out.

Upgrade the PG spot ASAP, and add a veteran 4 after that, then roll into the season.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions

I would add Martell to the two spot mix as well

Do that and you’re eating into Rudy’s minutes, which would already be decreased by adding Turk (less “PT at the 3” for Roy)

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Martell Webster doesn't have the handles to play the 2 on offense and the lateral ...

quickness to defend the 2 on defense. In hindsight, the contract extension that Webster signed last year is looking more and more like a mistake by the front office.

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Kind of hard to tell if the dude hasn't been able to play (re: contract extension).

Again, I just want to know for sure and would be willing to give it another half season. I think we’ll have to anyway as nobody will probably be interested in Webster because of his foot.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions

easy to say that now

you can go the other way with Webster’s contract being a steal if he comes in and has a great fall camp, wins the starting SF job and contributes to a contending team for the next 4+ years

Martell has been “out of sight, out of mind” for going on 10 months, but before he broke his foot he was deep into the Blazer’s plans and “nothing’s changed” re: how the front office and coaching staff feel about him

fans, on the other hand, are more inclined to say “what have you done for me lately?”

(kind of like me re: KP—what has he done for us…lately?)

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions

he gets an out on Blair

if we end up with Bass

by as11osu on Jun 30, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions

length > strength

That’s KP’s motto…or haven’t you heard?

Other than Bayless, and now Pendergraph (sort of) who has KP brought in that could be considered a “banger” for his position? Joel? I suppose but Przy is no fireplug like Bass/Blair. Oden basically fell into KP’s lap

Give me a PF with some actual lower body strength!

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Pedergraph isn't an example of that.

If your starting power forward is LMA, don’t you want a compliment to that coming off the bench? It’s something we just don’t have. I’m going to be disappointed if we don’t end up with some banger energy type to come off the bench for 15-20 minutes a night. Oden and Przybilla are great at center, but for guys with more quickness, they’re just not good enough.

by as11osu on Jun 30, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree

We’ve been talking about this for 6 months, but KP doesn’t seem to see the need

if he signs Hedo, there is going to be some serious questions re: KP’s vision of roster building. Adding Turk virtually signals “the end” for Rudy or Batum.

Face it, “no one” is going to trade for Webster in his current condition and with 4 yrs remaining on his contract!

Outlaw is already as good as gone, but even without Travis around, you still can’t find enough PT for Roy, Rudy, Turk, Batum, and Webster unless somebody slides to PG (Roy) or PF (Turk) for major minutes per game

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions

oden

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Jul 1, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

It's true, it would eat into Rudy's minutes - and I want him to be happy and a Blazer.

But I would be OK with seeing him fight for minutes for the first half of his “sophomore” season while we evaluate everybody (assuming Martell is healthy) together and really figure out what we have on our team before we deal someone we’ll come to regret.

I guess that still sounds like re-building mode though I don’t mean it to be. I am confident that we can compete and come out on top during the first half of the season and still take our time and gather as much info as we can before giving up either Martell, Rudy, or Batum (especially if it’s for a back-up ‘banger’).

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Rudy's minutes - and I want him to be happy and a Blazer

unless Roy gets hurt, I think you’re going to be disappointed with the “keeping Rudy happy” saga, over the long haul. (There have already been rumblings that he was none too pleased with his role in the offense, last year—just sitting in the corner and taking treys—and even asked to be included in at least one deal)

If KP is really smart he won’t hang onto Rudy until his trade value drops off the table, like he did with Sergio

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Wow. Which deal did he say that about?

If that’s true I will be dissapointed. I am really on the fence about that guy. He is so much fun to watch but I get the feeling that we wil be good with or without him – especially if the deal brings in a potential all-star’ish’ pg.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions

heymoe's story about "the Shaq trade that wasn't"

go read it here, before it’s deleted by a mod

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/6/30/931110/shaq-for-rlec-~~frye~~-filler

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks!

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jul 1, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions

why would a mod delete that?

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Jul 1, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions

nevermind

I see why.

The urge is strong to talk about things when you know them, which is why i just avoid those subjects which i shouldn’t be commenting on.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

by ratbastird on Jul 1, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions

what signing Hedo tells me – Outlaw plus either Martell or Batum is on the way out

Same story with Trevor Ariza, BTW

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Yep.

If we sign an “automatic starting” SF then we will have to get rid of Martell or Batum. Further, if you believe Martell could possibly back-up the ‘2’ then you’ve got to throw Rudy’s name up there as well.

I look at it from this perspective, we can only really have four good “wings” in the rotation. Right now we (presuming Outlaw is gone) have them in Roy, Rudy, Batum and Webster. If we add one more – even if we have moved one wing, Outlaw – somebody’s still going to be the odd man out.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Yep, unless one of them can play PG or PF

and that dog won’t hunt

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions

I hope not

I really do not want Hedo.

I say we go after Artest. Then use Travis or Martell as a chip to trade for a PG. Hedo isnt worth the money that he will be asking for. Artest could probably be gotten on the cheap, and is a way better defender, and doesnt need the ball in his hand (i.e taking it out of Brandon’s) to be effective.

Hi fans it Brandon Roy.
And ME.....LaMarcus Aldridge

by Derftron on Jun 30, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions

Come On

We need a backup PF, not a no-defense SF who shot 41% last year.

by Balian on Jun 30, 2009 4:03 PM PDT reply actions

I'm not advocating for Hedo

I"m merely exploring the logical follow-ups if indeed it is Hedo.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions

I have a guess (well, two guesses) of who they are going to offer a contract to at 12:01 tonight...

and it’s not Hedo or Miller…… it’s going to be Trevor Ariza or Jason Kidd. We’ll see if I’m right…..

by jenstcy on Jun 30, 2009 4:07 PM PDT reply actions

if it's Kidd...

color me happy.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions

With you on that one

by MadBlaze on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions

let's not and say we did

Hedo is not going to make the Blazers better. Period.

"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice

by koyote on Jun 30, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions

Let's not. Please.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jun 30, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions

If Hedo were playing PF, I bet LMA would be center, rather than GO or Joel

Which would be a pretty deathly small lineup.

Dictated, not read. The management.

by Samsara on Jun 30, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions

A frontline of LaMarcus Aldridge and Hedo Turkoglu would get massacred on defense.

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

that might be putting it too kindly

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Let's assume....

This analysis would be pretty similar for Artest or Ariza. A little different, but the same general idea. So for people who would prefer one of them, just substitute in your mind.

Now if you prefer a PG OR PF FA or no FA, you’ll have to start over.

by pualo on Jun 30, 2009 5:11 PM PDT reply actions

yep, thanks for that

the general point is that if we go out and sign a SF, that has to signal either Martell isn’t ready or either Martell or Batum is trade bait (along with Outlaw of course).

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jun 30, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Webs just had that look in his eye last year...

…like, ’Wait’ll they get a load of me THIS year!" IF his foot can fully heal and he can come back like that and have the breakout year people expected last season we will have no need for a new, expensive small forward. If we acquire one of those this summer it’s not because we want to trade Webster (he’s injured – no one will take him) it’s because the front office is much more concerned about his injury than they are letting on. Either way, Webs will be a Blazer at the beginning of next season.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on Jun 30, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed

I’d say the same re: Blake, but Steve has the expiring contract that could be useful in a lopsided trade. Not the same with Webster, he’s signed through ‘13 and another team won’t want to assume that risk unless they’re SURE he’s “all the way back”

So if KP signs Turk, then either Rudy or Batum will have to dealt, PDQ

We could have a real firestorm around here in a few days

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Unfortunately

they probably don’t know much better than we do how ready Martell will be, and they’ll have to make a choice without knowing that.

by pualo on Jun 30, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions

I really like Hedo

but he’s asking for too much money.

Besides that, I wouldn’t sign a player who needs to be very involved with the offense. Nate would probably ruin him as a player. He needs to be the focus of the offense on at least 30% of the posessions so he can be effective, and that won’t happen with McMillan’s Blazers

Nobody expects a Spanish Acquisition!

by DaniBCN on Jun 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT reply actions

Whatever happened to "tweaking the roster"

That was what KP said he was doing this summer and I believe that. Being active in free agency doesn’t mean taking the most overvalued player in free agency who also happens to be an awful fit.

Please don’t let this happen

by MadBlaze on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 PM PDT reply actions

So

it´ll probably be Hedo.
Our offense will definitely be more interesting, altough I still think he´s not the best fit.
We´ll try to trade Outlaw, and if the Hinrich for Blake+Trout trade is not available, what do we do?
Is Devin Harris attainabla for Rudy+Bayless+ Outlaw + rights to whomever?

by Falcao on Jul 1, 2009 6:44 AM PDT reply actions

re: your last question

the salaries work. I think the rudy/bayless/outlaw deal would be a great one for us. and NJ saves a ton of money over the next 4 years, while having 2 young talented and cheap players coming back in the deal.

not very likely, but if NJ really wants to clear long term dollars, it’s about as good of value as they can get for Harris while still dumping a ton of salary

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Jul 1, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions