Cap gurus, help me out here. My brain hurts!

by conspirator5 on Jun 3, 2009 8:45 PM PDT

I have this issue that's been nagging me in the back of my mind ever since the end of the trade deadline, and today's discussion about lopsided trades has brought this nagging to the forefront, like a migrane headache chipping away at my sanity. Here are the building blocks of my condundrum...

1. At the trade deadline, we acquired a $3M trade exception which is only good until the end of the next season.

2. At the trade deadline, we did not divest ourselves of RLEC, which goes a long way towards putting us under the cap in about six weeks or so.

3. As has been repeatedly stated, you cannot combine an exception with cap space. You get one or the other.

Taken at face value, the exception appears to be a total waste of our time. However, I have a hard time believing that all is as it appears because:

4. KP/Penn have a proven track record of being very efficient horse traders. Even trades that aren't necessarily bringing us talent are putting us in a more advantageous position in one way or another.

In other words, I believe that there was some purpose in generating the trade exception that we are not perceiving right now. This is where our in house gurus come into play. What I would like to know is if there is a realistic scenario where we artificially and temporarily keep ourselves above the cap threshold in order to do deal A with the trade exception, and then perform some type of black magic to get ourselves back under the cap in order to execute lopsided deal B. I have read comments that we could fabricate some type of 1 year sweetheart contract with Raef that would exist solely to trade off to someone else. I'm seeing speculation that we could tender a QO to Frye that we could effectively go back on later. There may be other strategies as well. I understand that there are questions of timing as to when league rules allow certain things to be done. If someone can answer this question, preferably including the timeframes such deals would need to be executed in order to work under league rules, that would be awesome. Alternatively, if such an 'A, then B' scenario is implausible, are there any other reasons why KP/Penn would have manufactured an apparently worthless trade exception?

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Why not first do B then A?

That’s what I would do. But then again, I’m not a general manager.

וָאֹמַר אוֹי-לִי כִי-נִדְמֵיתִי, כִּי אִישׁ טְמֵא-שְׂפָתַיִם אָנֹכִי, וּבְתוֹךְ עַם-טְמֵא שְׂפָתַיִם, אָנֹכִי יוֹשֵׁב: כִּי, אֶת-הַמֶּלֶךְ יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת--רָאוּ עֵינָי.

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by T Darkstar on Jun 3, 2009 8:57 PM PDT reply actions

If we renounce Petteri, like we should

We could be 9.1 million dollars below the salary cap. Meaning we could get a mighty good free agent (probably a top 5-10 guy). Then we can use the trade exception after that. Maybe if by mid season if we haven’t picked up a solid defensive power forward, or maybe a guy went down with injury we could take a 3 million dollar player off someone hands and we wouldn’t have to give anything up. This might happen to a team out of playoff contention looking to dump salary for the summer of 2010.

by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions

I disagree

Koponen’s cap hold is minimal – $824,000. If that amount makes or breaks a big deal, Portland will of course be willing to renounce him. But he’s a young, developing PG with height who can shoot. If for no other reason than to use him later as trade bait, Portland should keep his rights if they can.

And as I said below, if Portland gets cap room, the trade exception is lost and cannot be regained. It is impossible for the Blazers to use cap room to get a player than use the trade exception.

by Storyteller on Jun 4, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions

Definitely disagree about Petteri

he was one of the worst players in the Italian league last year, and his skills will never be up to snuff with even Sergio’s, let alone being backup point guard worthy in the NBA.

You’d know better than me about the cap space, but my understanding of it is that we either use our cap space on a free agent or use it on our own players. I’d rather have 8-9 million in cap space for a free agent than have a 3 million dollar trade exception. Trevor Ariza, Ramon Sessions, Brandon Bass etc… all worth more than any player you’re getting with that 3 million dollar trade exception. If you know of a loophole of some sort, that I’m’ not thinking of, I’d love to hear it.

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions

That's an excellent question...

To me, the answer is that if you do the lopsided deal first which takes you back over the cap, and then you use the exception to get another $3M over the cap, then now you’re in the luxury tax by a few mil less than a season before you need to renegotiate B-Roy’s contract. Assuming PA really does care about profitability at some point, this seems less-than-optimal. However, my reasoning could be off here. If the front office fully expects to end up over the cap again in the near future, my concerns about the worthlessness of the trade exception are unfounded.

by conspirator5 on Jun 3, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't believe you're in the luxury tax just because you're over the cap. I think the luxury tax threshold is much higher than the cap.

by dario argento on Jun 4, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Here's why not

When you get below the cap, you lose all exceptions gained up until that point.

Impossible for the Blazers to use cap room to make a trade then use the trade exception – because getting below the cap means that the trade exception goes away.

by Storyteller on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions

As usual, you understand this stuff way better than I ever will.

Thank you for keeping me straight on it.

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by T Darkstar on Jun 4, 2009 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Every trade above the cap is technically an exception to the rules (that's why the salaries have to match closely)

If you are under the cap, you don’t “deserve” an exception because you should first use the space you have :)

It’s also why they place cap holds for restricted free agents on the salary sheet, to prevent teams from first acquiring another team’s free agent and then re-signing their own one.

by Norsktroll on Jun 4, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions

Does using cap room also make the MLE go away?

Or do we already not have the MLE because technically as of this second we’re under the cap?

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions

At this very moment, the Portland Trail Blazers are over the salary cap.

The earliest the Trail Blazers can get under the salary cap is after the July moratorium.

by AK1984 on Jun 4, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions

And if we stay over the cap

we’ll still have the MLE and the trade exception?

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes, as well as the bi-annual exception.

Yet, if the Portland Trail Blazers get under the cap come 7/8/2009, the team won’t have any of those exceptions.

by AK1984 on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions

To get under the cap

I believe the Blazers would have to waive all of their exceptions, as they have was amounts to a cap hold on the blazers books.

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by usmcr3049 on Jun 5, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions

HEDO

With that money we could get HEDO.
Then Finally Move Trout and Sergio and get somebody in return

by quezadaz on Jun 3, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions

Because by getting the exception

we cut that ~$3 million off our salary number. Since we were over the tax, not only did we not have to pay Ike that money, we also saved $3 million in luxury tax payments.

Basically, by swapping out Ike for Ruffin, KP saved PA about $6 million. Maybe that seems like chump change to him, but every dollar counts, and if you can save him money now, he might be more willing to spend the money later.

by Royster on Jun 3, 2009 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

One way to effectively utilize that $2,912,823 trade exception is by using it before the July moratorium.

During the 2009 NBA Draft on 6/25/2009, here’s one way to trade out of the first round and solve the quandry at the backup power forward spot by using the trade exception.

FROM GOLDEN STATE & TO PORTLAND
PF Brandan Wright ($2,497,320)

Outgoing Salaries: $2,497,320

FROM PORTLAND & TO GOLDEN STATE
F Austin Daye (Draft Rights)
PG Petteri Koponen (Draft Rights)
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)

Outgoing Salaries: $0

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5063813

In this case, the $2,912,823 trade exception acquired from trading Ike Diogu to the Sacramento Kings for Michael Ruffin would be used to absorb Brandan Wright’s contract. Wright, who’s misused by Don Nelson within his 4-oustide/1-inside motion offense, might be put on the trading block by puppet GM Larry Riley.

by AK1984 on Jun 3, 2009 9:17 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

LOVE IT

I thought I was the only guy head over heels for Brandan Wright. He’s got such a pretty inside game (GREAT touch), and his length makes him dangerous defensively too. Hopefully since Mullin is gone we can make something happen.

by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions

With Chris Mullin pushed out the door by Robert Rowell, I'm just waiting for Don Nelson to order ...

Larry Riley to do something totally asinine like trade Andris Biedrins and Marco Belinelli to the Toronto Raptors for Andrea Bargnani and Jason Kapono this summer.

by AK1984 on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions

AK, you are a genious.

Love it.

The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of a martyr.

by The Pirate on Jun 4, 2009 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions

I remember watching Wright

get dominated by Taj Gibson in the tourney.

Offseason:
PG Options:(T)Mike Conley Jr/(FA)Jason Kidd - (D)Rodrigue Beaubois/Toney Douglas
SG Options: (DDT)Terrence Williams
SF Options:(FA)Ron Artest/(T)Tayshaun Prince
PF Options:(DDT)DaJuan Blair/(T)Reggie Evans/(T)Carl Landry - (D)Taj Gibson, (D)Damion James, (D)Kevin Seraphin

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 4, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

And I remember watching LaMarcus

get dominated by Big Baby. Single tourney games are fairly meaningless.

by Royster on Jun 5, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions

that's the best deal I've seen for our trade exception

that, you know, actually worked

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions

He would need to get muscle

I have lived in the bay area and went to many Warriors games and i know the fans love Wright but they did draft Randolph who is probably the exact same player as Wright so he might be traded.
He needs to gain more weight to have a place on this team though.
But the good thing is that he is very young and will improve alot

by quezadaz on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions

He doesn't need to gain weight if we also end up with a banger at the position.

Honestly Wright fits as well off the bench next to Joel as pretty much anyone. We’d still have an effective interior game, athleticism from the 4, that we’d lose if we trade Outlaw, and the ability to change shots. He’s certainly much better on the boards than Outlaw, but not being able to body people up, while a flaw, is less a flaw with Joel right next to you. He’d help create room for three point shooters by being a reliable option inside. Something we never saw off the bench last year.

by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Ya your right

If we do get somebody else he wont need to gain weight. He is still growing too you never know how his body will end up in a few years

by quezadaz on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Good scenario

I like the idea.

by Storyteller on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions

we don't have to send the 3 million though right, you just threw that in there to sweeten the deal...right?

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Jun 4, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I tossed that in to sweeten the pot.

by AK1984 on Jun 4, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Always fun to spend Paul Allen's money

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions

I only like cooked spam...

seriously… the chick can eat it cold but … uhhhhghghg gag. gag gag.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Jun 4, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions

How much dead money

does Portland have against the cap? I know Kemps 2mil a year should be close to coming off the books but other then Miles what other dead money is Portland paying on?

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.

by Dragonage on Jun 4, 2009 10:34 AM PDT reply actions

Looking at Kemps time in Portland he probably does not come off the books till 2012

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.

by Dragonage on Jun 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions

Kemp doesn't count anymore

The only dead money is Darius’ $9 million. Well, and Raef’s free agent cap hold, but that’s going bye-bye one way or another.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Shawn Kemp has been off of the books since the summer of 2004.

by AK1984 on Jun 4, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Thank you

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.

by Dragonage on Jun 4, 2009 1:10 PM PDT reply actions

Ammo to move up for Blair

Would you give up Rudy? Who would you pick to replace him?

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 4, 2009 9:53 PM PDT reply actions

Stop trying to trade Rudy. He's our 3rd best player. He's 24 years old. And he's on a perfect contract.

You have these assets to move up for Blair…

Outlaw, Webster, Rodriguez, Freeland, Frye, #24, #32, #38, #55, #56, 8 Million cap room.

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions

His contract is perfect & he is our 3rd best player right now

But long term, I would rather have the money he is going to make, distributed among players who are great at defense & rebounding + an offensive game.

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 4, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Course if we could get him using only those assets...

by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 4, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Rudy's making a total of 7 million dollars over the next 4 years

that’s ridiculous. You’re not going to find a better value in the NBA. Rudy’s also a perfectly adequate boarder for the SG position averaging a rebound every 15 shots. Though he isn’t the best defender in the world, he’s been very effective versus his own position (SG). It’s when we’ve played him at PG or SF that he’s been less than stellar. Also, there isn’t a better guy we’re going to get on the offensive end playing next to Roy. He’s almost the perfect player to play alongside Roy at the wings. I honestly think a lot of people are forgetting exactly who Rudy is.

Here’s a vid…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3WSKgRf1xw

by as11osu on Jun 4, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions